If you were asked who the top ten world class players were in the premiership I’m sure your list would include Rooney, Torres, Cesc, Lampard, Drogba, Anelka, Van Persie to name a few – no spuds of course – yet all these players have failed to live up to their expectations in South Africa this summer.
Season on season they light up the premiership for their clubs and yet none of them, so far, have been able to grab a game by the scruff of its neck and make things happen. Mind you, our Cesc did put though some lovely balls to David Villa last night who strangely didn’t say thankyou for a single one.
The theories for this lack of sparkle are many – playing at altitude, training at altitude and the Jubilana ball are all being given as reasons why the tournament isn’t seeing the best of our stars in addition to the fact that ours is the biggest league and we play more games than anyone else. But maybe when compared to the South Americans the Premiership isn’t as good as we think it is. I thought England did OK against Slovenia – they couldn’t have played any worse than against Algeria – but I find watching Argentina and Uruguay far more inviting.
How many of the Premierships world class players would get into a Fantasy Argentina Side for example?
Why didn’t Drogba or Anelka do for their countries what they do for Chelsea week in week out?
As an England supporter I want Rooney to do really well (cough, splutter) but as an Arsenal supporter I want Cesc to weave his magic for Spain and Robin to bury a few in the top left-hand corner for Holland to delight the millions that will be watching world-wide. Although its a double-edged sword having Cesc do well as obviously his talents are not really appreciated by Spain.
I want the players that we watch week in week out to be a credit to themselves and to the Premiership that is lauded as the strongest league in the world – its not happening so far. Is that because they’re really not that good by comparison?
Good for Mexico, France need a miracle now to get out of their group so says their hapless manager Raymond Domenech. He looked almost as stupid standing on the touch-line at a loss for how to improve his team as Shteve McClaren did under his umbrella.
Make no mistake, the French side is still packed with world class players, but with divisions in their camp that stopped them playing for the shirt and having cheated to get to the World Cup finals its probably right that their journey ends quickly. What I find worrying is the manner of their departure. Footballers should play for the shirt, club or country, whatever is going on behind the scenes between other players or their feelings about the manager and his decisions.
The management of the French Football team has to take reponsibility for leaving Domenech in the position knowing that he’s failing to get the team to play for him, but equally, the players have to look at themselves for failing to put in the effort. If this can happen at International level, it can happen at club level too.
I’ve moaned about Arsenal players not doing their job properly, not working hard enough, not earning their money on the pitch. I’ve always felt that the relationship that exists between Arsène Wenger and the Arsenal players is very special. They want to play for him, they want to do well for him – the fact that he’s the manager of Arsenal comes second. The young men that he recruits into our team will have a love of Arsenal because of him too – because of the way our football has developed under his management. I feel, when the time comes, we will need one of his disciples to carry the torch into the future, but thats in the future.
The feeling that there may be disharmony in our camp if Cesc stays is a real one. Certain sections of supporters and the media will be waiting to pounce on anything that looks like Cesc or any of the other players aren’t pulling their weight. Arsène Wenger is going to need all his beloved psychology to maintain a stable club and team. I would be disgusted to think that our players were not pulling on the red and white and playing with pride.
Les Bleus should be ashamed of themselves this morning.
Following Raddy’s article yesterday exposing the press reporting of ‘Arsenal’s behind the scenes dealing’ for the fanciful unsubstantiated speculation it undoubtedly is, I thought I’d be obtuse and join in with the speculation by putting myself in the shoes of a supporter who is prepared to believe some of the stronger rumours that are circulating.
Just for those who may read the headline but not the article, I am not suggesting that we would be stronger BECAUSE Cesc goes to Barca, just looking for the positives IF he does.
Here are some of the mooted changes in personnel at the start of next season if our worst fears are confirmed and Cesc leaves. FC Lorient and Fulham have both confirmed that Arsenal have made an enquiry about their players whereas the Joe Cole story is just a rumour that many are prepared to believe.
Out: Cesc, Gallas, Sol, Silvestre, Merida, Almunia (maybe not sold)
In: Chamakh (already signed), Koscielny, Schwarzer, Joe Cole
Would the balance of those changes make us a stronger team next season?
Starting from the back; even after conceding 4 goals last night, I think Schwarzer is better than Almunia. He’s not top top class but he would give Szczesny the couple of years he needs to grow into our first choice keeper. I’d send Fabianski out on loan to try to rebuild his confidence and keep Szczesny as our number two, maybe giving him the occassional start in the side.
Koscielny is an odd one. I don’t know that much about the player. Arsène is obviously very keen on him, so I suspect he will turn into a gem in the mould of Vermaelen and hopefully bed into the side as quickly. I think he could be better for us than Gallas in terms of motivation, freedom from injuries and aerial power in defence although he lacks experience. A lot rests on the continued fitness of Djourou as it is certain that one, or both of our CB’s will be lost to injury at some stage so we may have to rely on Song to fill in at the back at some stage.
A defensive midfielder to cover for Song is the player I feel we really need but will not acquire, so I hope that Eastmond gets a few first team games as he seems to be the player coming through who is best suited to the role.
OK, Joe Cole is not as good as Cesc, but he’s a clever player who is direct and creates chances for others. He can score goals and play anywhere across the midfield. He has a battling temperament and will give his all for the team. Cole would also allow us to rest Arshavin who I believe was playing with injuries for a lot of last season and struggled to come to terms with the physical demands of the premiership. The arrival of Chamakh should mean that AA is never called upon again to play the lone striker role.
I fear we have relied too much on Cesc. He has been the focus of our play and this has created scenarios similar to Henry’s last season where players in possession of the ball were clearly looking for Cesc rather than making the quick pass to another available player.
Chamakh will give us a much greater physical presence up front. He is strong, tall and he can head the ball. The only thing that worries me a little is whether he will be able to build a partnership with RvP (not that we will play 4:4:2), but he is a great link-up player and will be able to play wengerball.
With these changes, the spine of the team should be stronger – certainly at the top and the bottom. The loss of Cesc’s genius would be replaced by a potent attacking force in the final third with the inclusion of Chamakh and Cole. We should not forget Ramsey who I believe will become a fantastic player in our midfield. Diaby should show us more of the attacking brilliance that we witnessed in a run of games last season. I expect Theo and Nasri to demonstrate their ambition by reacting positively to the disappointment of being left out of the world cup and put in meatier performances next season.
Obviously we will be a far stronger team if Cesc stays and we also add to the squad, but who can be sure that will happen? Consider what the acquisition of Koscielny, Cole and Schwarzer would bring to the team if Cesc leaves. I would expect either TV or RvP to be appointed captain and we would be addressing some of the areas of frailty in the current side.
“It is understood” …. a euphemism for “the reserve team coach’s hairdresser’s boyfriend believes that…….. ” or even more likely “this reporter is stuck for a story line and has made this up ….”.
Summer transfer rumours drive me mad. So much of what we read is pure fantasy, a product of a fertile imagination, the addition of two and two to make five. The examples are endless as seen by the rumoured transfer bar on this very site.
One may believe that these fabrications are innocent but they have a direct affect upon the poor saps who read them, and the reason I am writing this post is because I am one of those poor saps. Today I read a lengthy article on our favourite subject this summer, the will he/won’t he go to Barca saga. In this article it stated that Arsenal were sick of dealing with Laporta and had started negotiations with the incoming Barca President (Rosell) with a view to selling Cesc next summer. My first thoughts were “OK, we get another season”, my second thoughts were “how has this journalist sourced this story?”. I re-read it. No quotes from any one involved, no statement from either club, much innuendo and one “it is understood.” Who understood?
Let us look at the Joe Cole story. Apparently it is almost certain he will be playing at the Emirates next season. Who says so? Admittedly there is some logic to it, the fact Cole is a good player on a free makes him an attractive target for our parsimonious manager, but we are well blessed in his chosen position (AA, TR, Vela) and are we likely to pay €100+k a week to him? Most probably these are stories placed in the press by Cole’s agent to alert other clubs to his availability, using the Arsenal name to strengthen their negotiations. But I am a pawn in their game. I go to work thinking “How will Joe Cole fit into our current team? Who gets dropped? Where will Arshavin play if Joe signs? etc etc.” I can’t help myself!
May I take a paragraph of your time to go back in history?
Around 2500 years ago a Greek philosopher named Plato wrote “The Republic”, in which he looked at the perception/nature of justice within the individual and the State (The Greek Republic). Based upon the teachings of Socrates, he notes that one’s viewpoint is dependent upon whether one is “inside or outside,” that is, whether one has direct knowledge (inside) or one’s knowledge is second hand (outside). His point being that unless one has direct knowledge there is always a tendency towards a skewed version of the facts, and that one bases one’s opinions and perceptions based this mis-truth.
We are definitely “Outsiders” and as such base our opinions upon the fallacies produced by journalists with questionable agendas. ( I must point out that The Republic is a treatise on happiness and justice and I have used a small section of the book to make my point! ).
As I wrote in a comment a couple of weeks ago. “Until you see Mr. Wenger smiling at the camera with his shiny new player holding an Arsenal shirt, it is just bulls**t”
On a serious note, I ask myself this – “If the back pages are full of lies and fantasy, is it likely that the front pages are equally fanciful?” Now that is a frightening prospect
I am getting more and more alarmed by a growing number of Arsenal supporters turning up on blogs and leaving hateful comments about Cesc.
“Fabrégas is just a money grabbing wannaway. Sell him now and get some players in who appreciate what wearing the Arsenal shirt means!!” (JSP)
Has Cesc ever said that he wants to leave? No, is the answer to that question and more pertinent he has never said he wants to leave to play for Barcelona; that being the case, he has done nothing to be ashamed of in my opinion and I for one would welcome him back with open arms.
GnarlyGeorge9 suggested that there is no smoke without fire. This is often the case but it is worth remembering that it was two muck raking journalists Guillem Balague and Graham Hunter based in Spain who lit the match and our very own manc loving media fanned the flames along with a few blogs whose principle writers claim to support Arsenal. Cesc has never said he wants to leave.
This should not be confused with the answer he gave to the question posed by a sneaky journalist while being interviewed in his home town Arenys (on the coast, about twenty miles north of Barcelona), which went: “Where would you like to play after Arsenal?”, now as I said this was in his home town, which is as pro Barcelona FC as the Holloway Road is pro Arsenal on a Saturday afternoon; he answered sheepishly “to Barcelona”. But as I said this is not the same as saying that he wants to leave.
If you think about it Cesc’s position is far more difficult than first meets the eye because he cannot be sure that Arsenal will not sell him if the price is right and that possibility is incredibly important when assessing the rights and wrongs of this situation.
We all know that when it comes to selling a player every club has their price, a fact that both Cesc and his agent, David Dein’s son, are well aware of; they are also equally aware that Barcelona are capable of making an offer that Arsenal cannot refuse. So, let’s not kid ourselves, if the price were right Arsenal would sell him. As to the amount, my guess would be seventy million pounds.
This being the case it is impossible for Cesc to simply come out and say that he wants to stay at Arsenal and see out the rest of his contract. The problem with making that statement is that if Arsenal subsequently choose to sell him the Barcelona fans will think of him as a player who didn’t really want to join them which I am sure you would agree would not be the best way for any player to endear himself to a new set of fans.
The only thing that Fabrégas has said on this subject is that he wants to focus on the World Cup and that he is leaving his future in the hands of Arsène Wenger. Now this is where the fact of having David Dein’s son as an agent pays dividends. There is no doubt in my mind that this statement was arranged in conjunction with someone who really understands Arsenal.
Here’s my long shot: Barcelona are not serious about this signing; they were forced into it by the muck raking journalists and only out of shame have they made the derisory offer of 35 mill. My hope is when the incumbent president Joan Laporta leaves at the end of this month and Sandro Rosell arrives that he very quickly makes clear that it is not his intention to pursue this signing. With that being established, I then expect Cesc to be presented to us by the club as the biggest summer signing – something that as a season ticket holder would make me very happy.
Not convinced — Barcelona really want him I hear you say, well do they?
Much has been made about how we stole him from under their noses with offers of houses for family members here in London and reassurances of first team football but if that was all it took I see no reason why Barcelona couldn’t have made the same offers — and a whole lot more for that matter; I mean, there has never been any doubt who he and his family support so what would it take for you to give up an opportunity to play for Arsenal?
Cesc was not wanted by Barcelona then and while this laughable offer of 35 mill is on the table (and it is) I am not convinced he is wanted now, something that will not be lost on Cesc himself.
It is off course possible that Barcelona could increase their offer to 70 mill a figure as I said that Arsenal would not be able to refuse, a figure that would force Cesc to ride off into the sunset, not a happy scenario but one that raises the question: would that then make Fabrégas the bad guy? Not to me it wouldn’t.
I’m a great admirer of Arsène Wenger, but apart from his apparent myopia when it comes to assessing goalkeepers, it has been some of his choices for captain that have perplexed me the most. It’s as if he doesn’t really respect the status of captain. It should be the pinnacle of any player’s career to captain his club. To use the captaincy as a tool to boost a player’s confidence (Almunia) or to help persuade a want-away to stay at the club (TH14) devalues it’s standing.
We’ve had some magnificent captains over the years peaking (in my opinion) with Tony Adams followed by Patrick Vieira, but I’m sure some of our long-standing supporters will tell me I’m wrong.
Here is a list of our captains since the 1960’s, excluding stand-ins when the captain was unable to play.
Terry Neill
N. Ireland
Defender
1962 – 1967
Frank McLintock
Scotland
Defender
1967 – 1973
Allan Ball
England
Midfielder
1973 – 1975
Eddie Kelly
Scotland
Midfielder
1975 – 1976
Pat Rice
N. Ireland
Defender
1976 – 1980
John Hollins
England
Midfielder
1980 – 1981
David O’Leary
Eire
Defender
1981 – 1983
Graham Rix
England
Midfielder
1983 – 1986
Kenny Sanson
England
Defender
1986 – 1988
Tony Adams
England
Defender
1988 – 2002
Patrick Vieira
France
Midfielder
2002 – 2005
Thierry Henry
France
Striker
2005 – 2007
William Gallas
France
Defender
2007 – 2008
Cesc Fabregas
Spain
Midfielder
2008 – 2010
Adams and Vieira had it all. They possessed the qualities I expect from an Arsenal captain. They were inspirational leaders, father figures to the younger players, big buggers, onfield enforcers, not afraid to take a red card for the cause. They were world class players who led from the front. When they spoke, the players listened. When they stood opposite their opposing counterpart in the tunnel, you felt confident. They epitomised what a captain should be and unsurprisingly, they held trophies aloft at the end of the season.
Some would say that being British is important but I don’t agree, the majority of the squad are foreign – which British player could captain our side at the moment?
All this brings me to our last 3 captains; taking them in order:
Theirry Henry: Vieira was a tough act to follow. Henry was already the subject of transfer speculation. As a striker he wasn’t best placed for the captain’s role and his increasingly petulent displays towards the end of his time were not the conduct expected from a leader. His performances would often lift the team, but he was not ideal captain material. There weren’t that many other candidates for captain in the side, but I’d probably have given it to Gilberto up until his departure.
William Gallas: He didn’t last very long and we all know why – a quite appalling dereliction of duty. Did it even occur to him while he was sulking on the halfway line that if the ball had rebounded off the post from the penalty, that he should be hovering to make the clearance? I’m not sure he ever commanded the respect of all the players, but he would have lost it after that Birmingham game. He should have been stripped of the captaincy immediately, not at the end of the season.
Cesc Fabregas: As with TH14, I believe Arsène used the captaincy to help keep him at Arsenal – and if it gave us a year or two more it would have been worth it. He is a born leader – more by example, but what an example? The burning passion with which he despatched that penalty against Barca was awe inspiring; the way he ran through the entire totnum defence from the halfway line to score, was magnificent; coming off the bench against Villa with a 25 minute 2 goal cameo to win us the game showed how he could pick up the team by the scruff of the neck and almost singlehandedly turn things around.
Should Cesc remain captain if he stays? In my opinion no. Although I would expect him to give his all for the Arsenal for as long as he wears the shirt, I don’t see how he can command the full respect of the other players when they know his heart is elsewhere. Who would be a worthy recipient? I would give the armband to Vermaelen or van Persie.
If you wish to give your opinion please place your vote in the poll below.
Footnote: all the best to Swiss Phil, had things been different, he could have been a great player for us. Maybe the way his confidence was destroyed by Drogbreath is a lesson on how fragile a young player can be when put into the spotlight too early.
Rumour has it we’ll take £60m for Cesc – I’m not sure how keeping your cards close to your chest during negotiations allows such information to leak out but thats the word out there on the street.
Bringing in Joe Cole shows a certain lack of ambition on Arsenal’s part in my opinion. We get £60m for our captain, the player that this young(ish) team has been built around and we take a 29 year old on a free. Lets take Joe Cole by all means if we can get him to accept our wage ceiling but lets also buy a player thats going to take the team forward.
Gourcuff has been scouted by Arsenal and hand picked by the supporters as a replacement for Cesc, he currently plays for Bordeaux and following our signing of Chamakh the two could team up effectively. He’ll cost us about £22m so we’d be quids in for sure even after spending £10m on a new French centre-back rumoured to be Laurent Koscielny.
We already know that Arsene will turn these young frenchmen into superstars and Real Madrid, Barcelona or one of the Italian giants will want to tap them up in a couple of years so while Ramsey, Wilshire and Theo grow into their roles let them have some real competition for their places. If Arsene is happy to break up this team by allowing Cesc to go and he’s accepted that ‘you don’t win things with kids’ then lets buy some proven quality and show that he can be flexible.
Maybe we won’t be ravaged by injuries again next season but how good would it feel to put out a top class 11 and have players on the bench that we want to see come on and play.
It seems all the rumours are about who we want to buy but surely we need to sell players to make a bit of room in the treatment room. It seems to me we have squad of players that no-one else is particularly interested in, am I the only one that thinks it’s a weird situation for a top club to be in. Only our superstars are attractive not our utility players?
Arsenal should be thinking about how to butter us up, not adding fuel to the fire that many of us feel is raging about not spending money on transfers. There were reports earlier of a warchest which we wouldn’t even need to be touched if we sold Cesc so the question remains, Where is the ambition? Why are we being offered Joe Cole as a replacement to Cesc?
Morning all, picking through the rumours today, it was hard to decide what to use as post as all the stories seem to be equally ridiculous. We are no nearer to knowing if anyone else will be signed before the World Cup or decisions about the future of Almunia, Gallas, Campbell, Silvestre or Senderos – a lot of centre-backs in that list!!
However London put on this interesting comment for us to share ………………..
For all those who are unaware, Spain has two main sports news papers: Marca which is as good as owned my Real Madrid and El Mundo Deportivo (the world of sport) as good as owned by Barcelona.
The Cesc saga doesn’t feature in Marca there simply is no interest but as you would expect our Captain gets top billing in Barcelona’s very own version of Pravda.
On today’s front page they have a big picture of Cesc with his hand on his head and a woe is me expression on his face, above it the headline reads “Vendedme ya” which translates to mean, sell me now. The story goes on about how he has tried to get in touch with Wenger, but to no avail, to plead for his release; he is portrayed as some hard done by Catalan held by those nasty English against his will, desperate to get home.
The other interesting thing on the front page is a poll asking how much they think Barça should pay for him. These are the figures to date.
Less than 20 mil 20%
Between 30 and 40 mil 32%
Between 40 and 50 mil 31%
Between 50 and 60 mil 6%
Between 60 and 70 mil 2%
More than 70 mil 8%
I was quite surprised to see that over 70 mil was as high as 8% but then I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion that it must be mostly Arsenal supporters….. I have voted for more than 70 mil five times already.
Well, if we are going to lose him I want to see them be made to bleed.
This post was written by andy before Barcelona made their offer and Arsenal told them where to shove it .
What makes a legend ?
All this talk of Cesc leaving got me thinking of his standing in comparison to some of his predecessors. Is Cesc a legend ? and what makes a legend ?
I was born in 1972 so my opinion of The Arsenal greatest players probably varies from that of some of the older and some of the younger guys (and girls) on here, but here goes…
I probably really started taking an interest in the team in the mid eighties and can remember Sansom and Anderson but to me then the heroes started to emerge. O’leary as a father figure bringing on the ultimate in Tony Adams.
If I had to name legends to me it would be Adams, O’Leary, Merse, Rocky, Bergkamp, Pires, Freddie, Bould, Smith, wright, Parlour, Dixon, Vieira, Henry but why ?
Is it just the time that you were at your most interested or is it that they were better than what we have now. My thirteen year old son thinks Cesc is the best thing ever but to me I personally wouldnt put him up there with the greats that I remember. If I think back to the side of the late nineties i’d struggle to fit him in. It may be that as we get older we think of the past greats with far higher esteem than perhaps they deserve and I do remember old guys talking to me as a young man about players of the past who were legends at the time but quite frankly look s**t compared to the players of today.
Maybe its attitude, I’m not great with stats so dont bother to dis-prove me but O’Leary played over 600 games for us, Adams his entire career. Dixon, Winterburn, bould, Seaman over 400 games each.The likes of Bergkamp, Pires. Henry and Llungberg were foreigners who made The Arsenal their club and we made them heroes.
So is it this that makes you a legend or winning trophies?
Do I remember Rocky because he won ‘X’ number of cups? No. Could I tell you how many winners medals Adams has? No. So is it about being successful?
Is it commitment? Adams = Arsenal, Pires , Bergkamp and Thierry still talk of the Arsenal with absolute love, not for the honours, but for the memories.
In my opinion there is no rule for whether you are a legend or not. It isn’t about success, it isn’t just about time served. I personnally think it’s about belonging. As a fan its about a player looking like he’s fulfilling your dreams (sounds a bit wanky I know but thats the best way i can descriibe it).
If i could have 1 wish it would be to play for The Arsenal (It could never happen coz im crap) but I want to see those there play like its an honour to wear the shirt.
Is Cesc a legend. IMO not yet. But he could be ? Who would be your Arsenal Legend?
Most football fans are aware of the story George Best loved to tell of how he was staying in a top London Hotel, where having just quit football he had enjoyed a few drinks and a particularly good night at the tables in the Casino,
To celebrate he phoned room service and ordered a couple of bottles of Champagne. The waiter who delivered it happened to be an Irish Man Utd fan. On entering the room he was confronted by a huge bed on which lay a half naked Miss World, surrounded by bundles of twenty-pound notes with the thousand pound bank wrappers still on them. He looked, placed the tray on the dressing table and as he presented George the bill to be signed asked. “ George where the hell did it all go wrong”
To me that sums up the Arsenal predicament at the moment, having come through some seriously stringent times, virtually owning their new purpose built stadium and training facilities, in the best financial position of the any of the top British clubs with the possible exception of Chelsea and City both of whom owe there good fortune to rich benefactors from abroad.
The Arsenal now find themselves with cash available to refresh their injury ravaged squad and add an experienced player or two to encourage and the lead the phalanx of talented players assembled at low cost by Arsene Wenger.
Yet there is an element of their support that keep asking in whatever way possible, where did it all go wrong?
Every negative that can be found, rumoured, imagined or invented is gleefully dished up, as proof of our imminent demise. Forget the cruel injuries at crucial times, forget some diabolical refereeing that has halted momentum and cost us vital points. Forget that Champions league qualification has been achieved year after year.
Disregard a lazy press, that delights in disrespecting the club for refusing to pamper to their desire for easy headlines, by employing rent-a-quote PR men to fire ten-a- penny sound bites, designed to appease those whose demands that we chase the improbable or impossible, are only matched by there inability to understand which is which.
Ignore all these, along with the fact that our key players have for years been the subject of shameful tapping up, by overseas clubs and affiliated press, designed at the very least to unsettle and destabilise but mainly aimed at enticing them away.
Where did it all go wrong? It didn’t we punched above our weight given the financial constraints, put upon us by the property development so vital for our future. We negotiated all the perils and pitfalls outlined above. We played our way into the hearts of a new generation of fans and delighted a vast army of older fans, brought up on the cynically predictable football, of the Pre Wenger years.
Despite this in recent weeks since the season end and before the Transfer Window even opens, every blog, paper and media outlet has again witnessed an outpouring of opinion as to how soon our captain and playmaker will leave the club, maybe he will, maybe he wont and just maybe if he does, he will do as many of the Wenger boys before him have done, wake up one morning, review his career and say “sod it, where did it all go wrong?”
Posted by peachesgÖÖner 
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