How much do the Kroenke’s care if Arsenal are a big club?

Here on A.A we try and keep everything as positive as possible, both in our comments and topics of conversation. However, we all know that this is not possible at all times because to ignore other, less favourable, aspects would be burying our head in the sand.

I for one am full of hope for our new era under Arteta. I actually believe it could eventually be viewed almost as significant as Wengers arrival. A big call to make I know.

However, I do think that our level of success under Arteta will be aligned with how Kroenke handles the club over the next 2-3 years. I think there is every chance that Arteta could eventually turn out to be the be the premier coach and tactician in world football, but will still be sold short on what he could potentially deliver without the right happenings going on behind the scene, and that starts with Kroenke.

It may be a good time to discuss the Kroenke regime to date, from its inception to the present date and what we feel will happen in the future. Does the past handling by Kroenke represent his future handling of the club, or will he change direction and focus from now?

I say this in light of the recent Deloitte standings of the worlds most affluent football clubs. It seems the Kroenke regime has overseen a dramatic slide in our standing on this list.

I haven’t got the full information year on year to hand (maybe someone can source it) but I believe at one point, a few years ago, we were only behind the likes of Real, Barca and Utd (possibly Bayern as well). Now we are out of the top 10 and been usurped by Spurs.

We have some esteemed bloggers on here with in depth accountancy knowledge, so it would be interesting to hear their views on this, but also their opinions on whether the past has any bearing on the future, and how they see us shaping up (relative to our rivals) as a traditional big club moving forwards.

GoonerB

30 Responses to How much do the Kroenke’s care if Arsenal are a big club?

  1. Thanks GoonerB ………… I would have added a picture of the two of them but couldn’t actually find one.

    Here’s the link to the Deloittes List

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51092320

  2. GoonerB says:

    I would also add that it may be that a clubs affluence can be assessed in more than one way depending on whether it is just turnover or net profit being examined or the overall value of the club once all assets are taken into account.

    What is the most important assessment though. Is it this Deloitte one or does that only look at it in a more limited sense?

  3. LBG says:

    “Affluence” should be judged in terms of quality of football played, sense of fair play in relation to injustices of 21st Century football, treatment of its lifeblood – the paying fans – and, whenever possible, trophies won to make us all smile.

  4. Rasp says:

    Thanks GB,

    In terms of our gross revenue, the loss of CL football has reduced our income significantly.

    I don’t think there is any argument that Stan doesn’t believe in pouring money into his ‘franchises’, his style is to put in a strong management team and then leave it to them.

    In that scenario, the ‘speculate to accumulate’ argument is probably better described as earn it before you spend it – with some leeway when investment makes financial sense.

    I subscribe to the ‘if you can’t change it, don’t waste effort stressing over it’ theory. It doesn’t look like Stan has any intention of selling up (Arsenal) so let’s hope our management team is up to the job.

    Going on from sounding like I’m sensible and balanced in my thoughts – I’ll now enter the realms of barking mad and say, I think we can win the EL this season and that would immediately restore us to our rightful position on football’s rich list 🙂

  5. RockyLives says:

    That is the billion dollar question, GoonerB.

    My bigger fear is that Silent Stan will borrow money against Arsenal to then use for his new NFL stadium development in the US.

    That could see our club saddled with huge debts for the foreseeable future, with probably a heavy impact on our ability to improve the team through transfers.

    Given our worldwide reputation and status when the era of sugar daddy owners began in the early 2000s, it’s rotten luck that we got the only billionaires who have no interest in investing heavily in the club.

  6. RockyLives says:

    Redders comes and goes
    Like the Scarlet Pimpernel
    Or daisy, perhaps.

  7. RA says:

    Hi Gooner B,

    Lists of football companies and their wealth are interesting, but only to the extent that they can warn
    others (fans) of their lack of wealth, where that is an issue, and what may flow from that as regards their inability to be successful or in terminal decline.

    These lists of the wealthiest companies are simply snap shots in time, and in the intervening period until the current lists are published, the ‘wealth’ can have reduced or increased, and that can be seen by comparison with previous years.

    For example, Arsenal in 2010 were 5th in the Deloittes list with (only) about £250m revenue, but in 2020 they are shown as having fallen out of the top 10, despite an increased revenue stream of £382m.

    What does that mean? That is a wide ranging question and depends on the individual as to what their values are. For some, bragging rights for being the wealthiest club is what makes them happy. For others they are more interested in intrinsic values.

    For example, LBG has value judgements which he lists as ‘quality of football, and a reputation for fair play etc’ and most of us would not disagree with that, but those virtues are not necessarily governed by money, because the richest company/club with the highest revenue may be crap in the treatment of their fans, whereas the poorest companies might be famed for their style of play, and much loved by their fans because they are fairly treated.

    What can be said, is that even with a massive new stadium, the club has a team that has been in turmoil for some years, and as a result, the Arsenal financial model cannot be described as successful when compared with the other most successful clubs.

    However, Mr Kroenke may have a very different view on that because we do not know what he deems to be a successful investment.

    Frankly these lists raise more questions than answers, and without more information we are left to guess the answers.

  8. RA says:

    An excellent Haiku, Rocky, I love it!! 😁

  9. RockyLives says:

    I thought your splendid examples at the end of the previous Post deserved a reply Redders 🙂

  10. Sue says:

    Kolasinac isn’t available for Saturday, he has a thigh strain (I’m free to rub 😂😂)…. oh that’s a bummer ☹. No mention of Torreira though, so that must be good news 👍

  11. RA says:

    Hi Sue,

    I’m pleased you are feeling a little less stressed today, it must be the thought of the thigh and the bummer you are free to rub.

    What a naughty lady!! 🤪

  12. RA says:

    I have been meaning to give a season’s greetings to some of my erstwhile blogger friends, altho the chances of them seeing this will probably be a remote hope. But here goes.

    Hi, Ant and Duck, Big Raddish, Gooner N5, Micky who Always Didit, Darling Terry, Kelsey, Herb and not forgotten Charybdis, and of course, all you lovely people who still blog regularly on the best blog in ….. well, Blogdom;

    I WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY, HEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR, AND MANY MORE OF THEM

    We would all love to see you pop back and say hello – we all miss you!! 😁

    [I have also put a note in a bottle to y’all, as a back up, in case you do not see this message.]

  13. LB says:

    Very thought provoking post GB and to the point as well 🙂

    I don’t pretend to know the answer, we can do but hope that kroenke cares a great deal I suppose.

  14. Sue says:

    Hello, RA.. Well yes, that might have something to do with it 😃 hehe!
    You seem your usual jovial self – which is good – no more of that sayonora nonsense!! 😉👍
    Actually, going back to one of your comments yesterday, you said “Over the years, when I have been to London”….. so, you’re not based there? For some reason, i thought you were!

  15. GoonerB says:

    Thanks LB, I’ve been working on my “to the pointness” 🙂

    Have a look at these links to ECL and EL prize money distributions.

    https://www.totalsportek.com/money/europa-league-prize-money/

    https://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa-champions-league-prize-money/

    While we all know and it is clear that the ECL dwarf’s the EL in prize money, things maybe aren’t quite so clear cut in terms of what it means to us over the last number of years.

    With the total ECL pot being roughly 4 times the EL’s that is significant but that becomes about 2 1/2 times when translated to the winners and runners up in each of the competitions……provided they come from the same leagues (EPL teams are one of the higher ranked ones and get more).

    As both winning and losing finalists were all EPL teams Spurs have earned roughly 2 1/2 times what we did and Liverpool the same measured against Chelsea.

    However if you were to look at a team like Arsenal exiting the ECL at the last 16 stage (as we more than often did) then the money at that stage is not really more than a winning or losing finalist in the EL, and possibly marginally less. Money is picked up for wins and a lesser amount for draws in group stages, and a team like us in the EL should be getting more wins than the tougher ECL.

    In the EL we should be more favourites to progress to the end of the competition than the ECL, as has been shown over the last number of years, so the prize money difference between last 16 in the ECL and finalists in the EL is marginal.

    In order to get the bigger finances a club has to be aiming for quarter finals and beyond in the ECL. Even when in the competition a few years ago we haven’t been looking that team so how much are we losing not being in it? It seems our goal should be, not to just get back in it, but to become one of the best teams in it again.

  16. RockyLives says:

    GoonerB

    Good point about the prize pots.

    I suppose there’s another financial hit from being in the EL in the form of lower ticket sales and in-ground receipts given that the EL ties are often less glamorous or appealing that CL ones.

    Also, is there a big difference in the amount of TV money clubs receive for being televised in the EL versus the CL?

  17. RockyLives says:

    I’ll be out of the country for a few days but will hope to check in when I can.

    If I don’t get on here to chat, here’s to a thumping win for Mikel and the boys on Saturday afternoon.

  18. Gooner B says:

    Hi Rocky, and firstly happy and safe travels to you.

    I think (but am not certain) that the T.V money is already reflected in the prize money given for each competition at each stage rather than being separate funds in addition to this.

    Reduced attendance may affect revenue in the grounds but I am not certain by how much these days. It never really feels to me as if the club are too bothered about maximising food and drink sales within the ground, and this could be much better but seems unimportant to address.

    This makes me feel that it is somewhat unimportant to Kroenke because maybe it doesn’t significantly affect the bottom line. With the club also being mostly reliant on season ticket sales I also wonder whether a reduced attendance really bothers them.

    I think the pots from the EPL and European endeavours are highly important in total turnover and Spurs will have got a bit more than us in the EPL and some £60m give or take more in Europe (last year).

    I think worldwide marketing, sponsorship and merchandising in addition to European monies are more important than attendances and spending inside the stadium.

    In reality our slip as a lucrative big club has probably included all areas of potential revenue, just with some being more important and lucrative than others.

    The common theme with being in the bigger European competition, increasing your worldwide merchandising and marketing, and being highly desirable from a sponsorship perspective is a successful team.

    I think many of us have expressed a view that Kroenke hasn’t traditionally seemed concerned with on field success, but I wonder whether this is an area he has misjudged when it comes to the big football clubs in Europe relative to his other sporting ventures stateside.

    Others will know better than me, but I wonder whether the sporting success in stateside sports is as allied to revenue as it is at the top end of EPL and European football. The apathy and apparent lack of ambition over many years would suggest he didn’t think the two were that linked. Personally I think they are and our slide is allied to this apathy.

  19. VP says:

    Good morning GB
    I would be interested in your views on why or how West Ham are in the top 20?

  20. allezkev says:

    Eddie Nketiah to stay at Arsenal it seems after impressing Arteta in training. I’m pleased about that.

    Interesting post Gooner B, I guess we could look at the ownership of Stan Kroneke in two ways, Usmanov and post Usmanov?

  21. RC78 says:

    There is a rumour we are monitoring Kurzawa from PSG at left back. I hope it s not true. He is a liability.

  22. RC78 says:

    I think we don’t have the best people in terms of our growth. When I see how the PSG brand grew in 10 years to make it the 5th richest club in the world, I think AFC can do better. PSG is 50 years old club, no history like AFC

  23. LBG says:

    Aubang out for three, Eddie staying with us. Now play him Mikel, give him a chance to shine and let us chant “Eddie, Eddie,Eddie!

  24. GoonerB says:

    Morning all

    VP, Re your question as to why West Ham are in the top 20, I honestly don’t have all the answers and was hoping others may have a better idea.

    If I was to hazard a guess at West Hams position (which is still under half of what we post up) I would say it may be a combination of a few factors.

    Firstly they are one of the bigger long standing English clubs in that next tier down form the current “big six”. They have history so probably boast some generational pass on as fans.

    Also located in an area of London that is heavily populated they have a big local fan base to draw from, and how much has the new stadium boosted their coffers?

    The third interesting one is who they are placed among in that list; Roma, Lyon, Everton and Napoli. Some of those non English clubs have boasted better on field success, in terms of their domestic league positions and European exploits, but still West Ham remain near them.

    Does this show the financial power of the premier league? I think it does and a quick look at how closely we are matched with Juve, who have been far more domestically and ECL successful than us in recent years, would seem to confirm that to me. I would suggest that West Ham in the Spanish or Italian leagues would shrink very fast in revenue position.

  25. kelsey says:

    Arsenal have decided that Eddie Nketiah will remain at the Emirates Stadium for the remainder of the 2019/20 campaign.
    BBC Sport have reported that the striker who was expected to return to the Championship on loan, will now be part of Mikel Arteta’s squad.
    I think Josh Kroenke is being true to his word that there won’t be any major signings or any at all bar a couple of loan deals for defenders, and that is a worry with Tierney and Chambers out long term (Tierney not so long) and the hesitency in the fitness of Holding and Bellerin.Apparently the FFP rules also stop us buying unless we sell and only half the window is left.I think it’s best to leave speculation about Auba’s and lacca’s future until the season ends. Three tough games coming up without Auba and we need for others to get in the scoring act.

    Now I say good morning to you all. We are an iconic club that has fallen very rapidly as a force in football at least in the PL, Our wages policy is insane.Mikkitarian (now out on loan ) £200K a week and Lacazette £140K as examples. Transition period is accepted, it has to be but what is the ultimate aim of Kroenke ? Top 4 is that it. He has just lost a fortune by the L A Rams not reaching the play offs and I believe Arsenal are colateral against his other franchises and it is not a healthy situation at all. Any business that wants to be successful has to move with the times to speculate to accumulate and then be worth more.We have had far too many bad buys these past few years.All clubs get those but we seem to have a bucketfull. Project youth didn’t work a decade or so ago but now we have 3 or 4 kids with exciting potential but they need mentors on the pitch,so who are the? Fabregas had mentors when he first broke into the first team. It’s a mess though from what he has said Arteta knows what he wants to do and by season end we will have a better picture.It’s going to be pretty hard but support we must and AFTV is killing our club and other fans from other clubs are mocking us. Robbie(a Luton Town supporter) is on 400K a year since Ladbrokes sponsored the channel and most of the idiots on there are glory hunters interested in themselves first.One prominent guy with his kids is surrounded by minders and I know many who have witnessed that.

  26. VP says:

    great comment Kelsey

  27. VP says:

    Thanks GB
    I’ve often thought that since the introduction of the new TV money into EPL that all the teams are more equal and the differences to the big 6 are getting smaller in terms of expected results.
    West Ham do surprise me on their financial clout and lack of onfield success

  28. jjgsol says:

    Does it really matter how much money we are worth?

    Is it going to help us play better and entertain us as well as win a few games?

    It cannot be simply a matter of throwing money at it as we have seen so many times before.

    On Untold in the last few days, there was an interesting article which showed that virtually if not all of the teams who spent a lot of money in the summer are now worse off in their league position.

    It will take a while to remedy the damage done by Emery, and I simply do not think buying more and more expensive players will make a difference.

    Yes, if we dispose of Mustafi now, we will have to bring in another CB or leave us really exposed if there is another injury.

    Otherwise buying more players who need a season or so to bed in will be counterproductive.

    So, in conclusion, I do not care where we are of Delloits list and really see no reason why any of us should either.

  29. LB says:

    It is very hard to argue against your last sentence and thinking about it I am not sure that I would want to.

  30. Morning all

    We have a New Post …………..

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