Written by mjc
There is much confusion about the 25-man squad limit which is being introduced for this season and we’re lucky enough to have a blogger who was happy to write a detailed explanation of how the new ruling will impact on Arsenal’s squad. It looks like we’re going to be in a very strong position although obviously there are still changes to be made with players coming and going.Thankyou ‘mjc’ for taking the time to put this together for us.
The adoption for the 2010/11 season of the new 25-man squad limit will impact on every team in the Premiership. But Arsenal look like they have an edge.
The new rule requires that:
– no more that 25 players over the age of 21 (or more accurately born before 1st January 1989) are allowed
– a minimum of eight of these must be home-grown, that is to say, must have received three or more seasons of development in England or Wales prior to the season of their 21st birthday
– any number of players born after 1st January 1989 can be added to this 25-man squad.
So how do Arsenal fare with the above rule? Categorising the first team squad gives us:
Home-grown (Minimum of eight):
- Vito Mannone
- Johan Djourou
- Gael Clichy
- (Sol Campbell)
- Cesc Fabregas
- Denilson
- Alex Song
- Nicklas Bendtner
So we exactly meet the minimum requirement of eight home-grown players, without having to include any of the under -21 players in the list. Losing Sol Campbell will of course impact on this equation.
Non home-grown (Maximum of 17):
- Lukasz Fabianski
- Manuel Almunia
- Bacary Sagna
- Thomas Vermaelen
- Laurent Koscielny
- (William Gallas)
- (Mikael Silvestre)
- Abou Diaby
- Tomas Rosicky
- Samir Nasri
- Andrey Arshavin
- Emmanuel Eboue
- Eduardo
- Robin van Persie
- Marouane Chamakh
We currently have 15 players registered in this category, although this can be expected to fall to 13 with the departures of both Gallas and Silvestre. In theory a further four players could be added, although both Vela and Szczesny will move into this category for the 2011/12 season.
Under 21 (No Restrictions)
- Wojciech Szczesny
- Kieran Gibbs
- Armand Traore
- Aaron Ramsey
- Jack Wilshere
- Carlos Vela
- Theo Walcott
Having seven first teamers (including one-third of our strikers) as “freebies” is certainly not to be sniffed at, and immediately extends the squad size to thirty-two players.
Furthermore, the above players are those with squad numbers from the 2009/10 season, and we can expect to see a number of the reserves (all of whom fall into the under-21 category) make the step up this summer. Many of these already have League Cup and/or Champions League experience:
Havard Nordtveit
Kyle Bartley
Gavin Hoyte
Nacer Barazite
Francis Coquelin
Jay Emmanuel-Thomas
Henri Lansbury
Mark Randall
Sanchez Watt
Gilles Sunu
This means that Arsenal’s squad for 2010/11, as registered with the Premier League, may well exceed forty players – larger than any other Premiership squad.
Certainly, Arsenal’s squad as registered for last season’s Champions League was the largest in that competition by quite some way.
And so, one might ask, what advantage, if any, does the above give to Arsenal? Is there really any benefit in having Novdveit available to face Drogba or Rooney?
Possibly not, but when injuries start mounting up this season, and the 25-man limit starts to bite, you’re going to see teams with more players out of position, and a great deal more blooding of untried youngsters than has previously been the case, and that will come as a shock to all the clubs involved.
Except Arsenal.
Arsenal News 24/7
Morning all and thanks mjc for addressing how the new ruling affects us in particular.
We do seem well placed to deal with the restrictions in force this season, although of course it has come at a cost in the last 3 or 4 seasons where lots of youngsters were put into teams with an imbalance of youth and experience.
Still, the pain we’ve endured lately should pay off when other teams will struggle – for example how are Shitty going to manage?
They have so many over 21’s who don’t qualify and their still keen on adding tothat category of player.
More money than sense the Middle Eastlands mob.
From one geek to another, excellent write up MJC. Expecting a lot I know, but I don’t suppose you’ve run this for the current squads of our principal rivals?? It’d be good to see how it all compares. I would be especially interested to see how City’s now-now-now, money-money-money approach might affect them.
Apols for typo in my own name there. Am just recovering from a particularly brutal 5 a side game last night….
Great but again I would call for Arsene to be positive and buy some great young Brits ie; Dorrans, Jones, Wickham, Hart. This would cost but would set us up for a fantastic future.
so there was method in the so called madness of Project Youth….
i just hope this is correct
chrybdis – Man City’s squad additions certainly look bizarre, and seem to be ignoring the 25-man squad limit. I’m guessing that there will be a fire-sale of the lesser lights of their over-21’s once City have bought every defensive midfielder in Europe….
I’d happily do a similar analysis of City’s squad, except I think it would leave me feeling dirty…!
well put together MJC, good morning charey.
its certainly a squad game these days isn’t it? and it looks like we are in a fine position to cope.
I think its a fantastic point that MJC makes at the end with regard to injuries etc, our younger players should be able to just drop straight in to the system.
Judging by some peoples views on the barnet game (which i did not see), it looks like some of our boys are banging on the door.
tommystout – certainly Frimpong should be added to the final list of the article (and possibly Cruise – he seems to be doing rather well for England U-19’s).
Morning all,
Excellent article and research mjc.
You do get the feeling we are about to reap the rewards for the years of austerity. I reckon AW must be seriously looking for another quality defender, but I really can’t see him paying £16m for Jagielka.
Small point that Roger Chesney (can anyone actually spell his name without Google?) would count as “home grown” as he’s been here since he was 16. Not sure about Vela as he was registered with us though obviously played in Spain, so we might be able to include him on a technicality. All the others in the “under 21” list would count as homegrown as well as all the youths listed below. More scaremongering from the tabloids who don’t understand the rules. Wenger was simply making the point that it’s not his job to develop the England team (despite having numerous top English prospects under 21).
Morning all
I was struggling to understand that mjc, so thanks for throwing some light on it.
How much did we sell Toure for?
Morning G I B,
Welcome, thanks for the clarification. I think Arsenal have done plenty for English football in the ‘Wenger era’ – we’ve added professionalism, class, entertainment and financial sanity!
Hi TommyS, yeah while I accept it was only against a 4th tier team on saturday some of the youngsters did look good as yesterdays post highlighted.
If you wnat a more detailed view of the barnet game I put a link oup on yesterdays post for my report(sorry for the shamelss plug guys)
MJC – I can understamd how analysing the Shitty squad will leave you feeling sordid and defiled !
OK
I am going to try and introduce a game for today. If you could pick two players to come in, and only two, which two would they be? Mine are:
Reina and Jagielka.
Morning chary,
Put the link up to your article again today by all means.
Cheers Rasp – another thing the Barnet match showed was my camera is pants!
I need one with an optical zoom as digital zooms are a load of crud.
The link is here :
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2010/man-at-the-match-chary-new-signings-revealed-in-4-0-win-at-underhill/#comments
and look out for the plug for this site.
Hi London,
Reina and Mertesacker would be my choice if we’re supposed to stay in ‘reality mode’.
Definitely agree that Frimpong should be in there. Also, I didn’t see Craig Eastmond, who would be above several of the players on your list.
I know Frimpong is lacking a bit in experience at the moment but I would quite like to see a 4-2-3-1 formation against the tougher teams, with Frimpong and Song as the two in front of defence.
Morning London – can I be on your side please, I’d love both of those although if we’re going for Fantasy Transfers I’d like Gomez – he’s completely nuts, ‘arry has done a great job of making a man out of him and it would p*ss the spuds off big-time 😀
Also his arms are nearly as long as his legs – not going to happen though 😆
Tom Cruise too, in a year or two.
Morning aj,
I thought Frimpong was excellent on saturday after a slightly nervy start.
Nordveit on the other hand was calm and assured from the off – I think his 2 years away on loan have paid dividends.
Another thing: I think 4 of the 8 have to be trained at the club as well (for 3 years between the ages of 16-21). So almost all of the above players count in that list (including Theo and Ramsey who were bought). Whether they went straight into the first team is irrelevant.
Another point is that you don’t “have” to have 8 home grown players. It just means you have 1 less player. e.g. A team only has 6 “home grown players” out of 8 meaning their squad can only be 23 players.
What could be interesting is teams having 2 squads as the rules don’t apply to cup or european games. I could easily envisage Citeh doing this. Whether players would be happy to accept this is another thing especially if they get knocked out of competitions early doors.
Evening all
Are Australians allowed on here still?
Some research mjc, do you have a costing for player salaries 🙂 I could imagine the wage bill would be huge.
For those who didn’t believe that Cesc wants to go, surely actions speak louder than words here. As for me, I’m still trying to find where he says, officially, that he is staying. Although i reckon he will.
Of course they are Gnarley, especially after your performance in the first test ! You know I would have enjoyed that.
G.I.B. – You are absolutely correct regarding Szczesny – my apologies. I also agre that we could see some ManCity players who are eligible for league games – which would be both peverse and bizarre….
AJ – Eastmond is definitely another one that should be on that third list – thanks.
Thats good chary, cheers. Yep 3 Tasmanians Ponts, Hilfy & Paine.
mertesaker and schwartzer for me.
reina can eff off with his microphone in his ass!
tommy, what is the latest on Schwarzer coming or not
i think it would have been done by now if he was coming GG9 😦
Gnarley, it’s a pity Hilfy may be out for the second test, he seemed to be in a good run of form to me.
Btw denilson doesn’t qualify as ‘homegrown’ as he was already 18 and a half when he signed for us (august 2006). Thus he does’nt meet the criteria of having trained in england for 3 or more years before his 21st birthday. It was approx to 2 and a half years.. just wanted to clear that up! Otherwise spot on, great post!
Oh well, maybe Le prof is playing possum 🙂
Chary
Hilfys in the House 😆
Paolinho – my understanding of the home-grown rule is that the player must have completed three full seasons, which can include the season that concludes in the year in which the payer reaches 21, even if the players birthday falls on 1st January(or in Denilson’s case 16th February). For administrative purposes the season starts on September 1st (on the closure of the transfer window). Therefore, as Denilson was signed on 31/08/06 at age 18, he had the 2006/7 season at age 18, 2007/8 at age 19 and 2008/9 at age 20, even though he was indeed over 21 by the conclusion of that third season.
Clear as mud….
In addition to denilson, with a similiar scenario alex song does’nt quite make the ‘homegrown’ cut either, having signed at a similiar age.
… also, Denilson will qualify to play alongside Wilshere for England in two years time 😉
Good article, is it possible to do a breakdown on our rivals too?
Song qualifies as home-grown in the same way that Denilson does….
Electrolex – would be fun to look at the other teams, but, by my reckoning, all the work would be done just in time to see the clubs publish the ACTUAL squads in about three weeks time.
Perhaps though, someone at the blog could contact blogs at other clubs and suggest they undertake the same excercise on their owns teams…?
Paolinho – I think the key term in the definition of home-grown is the use of “season” as oppose to “year” in the qulaification criteria.
I think phrasing it this way simplifies the administration, but also ensures that no players are penalised for being born one day the wrong side of the transfer window, for example.
Ok thanks mjc, i did’nt take those ‘admin purposes’ in to account! that does clear up song and denilson’s situations. Also Carlos vela seemed a slight grey area to me, with the loan spells in spain. Though he was registered with all that time, training with the club in pre-seasons etc. So he definitely qualifies aswell right?
*registered with arsenal all that time
A good if slightly comical way to check whether they count would be by playing footy manager. As far as I know both denilson and song count as home grown according to the game (can’t remember about vela)!
As I understand it, the rule states that the player must have trained in the host country (England and Wales) for 3 full seasons. Therefore Vela will not qulaify as home-grown because of the loans. I also think that this is why we have not seen many youth players being loaned to overseas clubs recently (unless this is a necessity for visa/work permit/passport purposes). However, Vela will qualify this season as an under-21.
G.I.B. – might be worth checking out that theory to see if my logic is correct.
The impact of overseas loans on homegrown status may also give a clue as to why Arsenal did not fight very hard to retain the services of Fran Merida….
Yeah the clubs loan policy on that basis makes sense, the only exception I can think of is Nordveit (not home-grown). I agree with your take on vela, thanks for the feedback!
Had merida stayed at arsenal, he would before the age of
21 qualified as home-grown, thus unaffected!
Paolinho – yes you are correct. Shame he left then, really….
Was a shame Merida made that decision, though all things considered, understandable. I think it’ll turn out to be less of arsenal’s loss and more a case of At Madrid’s gain…
I’ve done a bit of whoreing around the blog world to see if any other clubs have done any work on the 25 man rule and how it affects them.
Really weird writing on spud, manc and chav sites 😦
Does anyone know how to leave a comment on teamtalk as I couldn’t work it out 😳
Peachesgooner – thought it was interesting timing of this article, seeing as The Daily Biggot chose this morning to out Wenger as a confirmed Frenchman who has built a squad full of Carlos Kickaballs and doesn’t give a hoot about Team Ingurland….
Arsenal have the edge in numbers.As to the quality of the players it remains to be seen. Personally I have my doubts. Arsenal have a big pool of young gunners in previous years.
The thing is Arsene has to play them at times or they would just drift away. I know introducing them into the senior team requires conviction and managerial knowhow.
That’s what separates the top managers from the crowd.
Why should Arsene Wenger have to give a hoot about Team Ingerland? – I don’t believe he doesn’t, I think that early on in his time at Arsenal he was only focused on building success for the club but now, if he can add a good crop of players to the national team then he’ll be even more successful.
The future is ours !!!
So there you have it, Joe Cole has signed for the dippers.
I hope he’s got good private security at his new place – the thieving dippers will clean it out come the first away game of the season.
i thought he might have opted for spurs over liverpool… i always felt like arsenal had too many players like him so i’m not surprised or bothered that we have not gone for him.
now come on arsene give us a keeper and another centrehalf!!! pleeeez
Me too TommyS – he said he wanted to stay in London AND have Champions League football – with the dippers he get’s neither. At least with the spuds he had a chance at one and definitely the other(staying in London.)
He’s just another Gareth Barry.
Phew – Joe Cole isn’t coming, one less in the queue for the physio room.
No one to keep your man company then Maire 😉
I’ll keep him company 😉
i didnt realise that johan djorou was so tall… if he got a good run and a little more polished as a player, maybe he might be the bigger man required to partner TV
Hi tommy,
Not from what I saw on saturday, but as you say, who knows how much he could improve with a run of games. The question is, can we still afford to risk a lengthy ‘learing period’ in the hope that a player will eventually make the grade with man city and totnum breathing down our necks?
So it’s official we have the old names back at Ashburton Grove – welcome back Clock end, North Bank, East stand and West Stand.
About time too – how can you warm to “Orange Quadrant” or “Blue Quadrant”?
and boy they must be close cos i sure can smell their stinky breath!
Thoguht you might say that Maire 🙂
Well that is good news….although, unfortunately I now find myself in the West Stand…..my grandfather would turn in his grave.
Afternoon all. Hi Irish No Joe and No Melo. looks like a good season to me.
what other plans have they got for the arsenalisation charey?
It seems I’ve become a clockender 🙂
I am not sure who got the best deal: the dippers with Cole or the chavs with Benayon?
I bet arry isn’t happy, my guess is that he was hoping to pick up Cole on the cheap which he probably would have done because there is no way Lardy Benitez would have bought him. As for wanting to stay in London, the deal was all about wages.
Dandan – me too.
Guys if you want to stop discussing the ground (not an order ha ha) I’ll do a post and we can discuss it tomorrow or another free day?
Block 131 = Clockend
Block 132 = West Stand
Guess which block I am in?
Now if they just re-named the place “New Highbury” we could do away with the word “New” in a season or two and we would all know where were again. Simples.
OOps sorry Irish
If you want to delete my comment feel free.
Yes please Irish – can you do it – How will we gag London 🙄
I’ll take off the link too – just like magic 😆
Not at all London, its just I was actually thinking of doing one on the Emirates and since we are often stuck for a topic it might be a good post to do?
I’ll do it later Peaches so it’ll be there tomorrow (or any day) if needed.
I’m just writing an article on Team USA for BR, so will do it after that.
Got this from a City site (in regard to how many players they are over the limit at present- 4 by my maths)…
a) not homegrown & over 21 (max. 17)
Given
Zabaleta
Bojinov
Robinho
Santa Cruz
Garrido
Jô
David Silva
Vieira
Adebayor
González
Kolo Touré
Yaya Touré
Etuhu
Tévez
Kompany
de Jong
Nielsen
b) home grown & over 21 (min. 8)
Hart
Richards
Onuoha
Michael Johnson
Adam Johnson
Ireland
SWP
Barry
Lescott
Logan
Bellamy
c) under 21 (unlimited)
Boateng
Caicedo
Vidal
Weiss
Boyata
Cunningham
Ibrahim
Nimely0
Thanks for that Surferoza, out of interest, which team do you support? (apologies if you’re a gooner)
Am I being thick or do players have to be ‘home-grown’ by the present club – not any club????????????
What do you mean Peaches?
Irish,
I think peaches is asking can a foreign player who has been with a club (in the country) long enough to be categorised as ‘home grown’, still be considered as such if he moves to another club.
If he say moved from Arsenal to Manchester United? I.E. if he moved to a club in the same country?
Yes, i.e. can a young player be homegrown by another club?
Interesting question.
I wouldn’t think so because I think the wording says “club” and not “country”
Well if it is only from your own club then that is even better news for us.
Can you imagine the cost of young English players if that wasn’t the case !!!
Alternatively, academies would be chock full of talented young foreigners aged abetwen 15 and 16. Then there would an annual event lest, where the young players are harvestd and stamped with ‘homegrown’ across their foreheads and taken to market !!
😆 Sharkey
Wenger the herdsman…… 😉
Peaches you can join the boys in a verse of Eyes Right now 🙂
Anyone else catch the cloughie special on TV last night as the saying goes they don’t make them like that anymore 😉 What a waste that he never managed England he was years ahead of his time, Also so sad by the end.
That’s in drafts Rasp/Peaches.
Peaches – there are no constraints on which club the player was developed by. So Joe Cole, for instance, will be homegrown at Liverpool. With regard to Arsenal, only Sol Campbell is covered by this rule as, apparently, he started his career at another English club….
The Champions League rules are more specific on this as a proportion (I think it’s half) of the homegrown players are required to have been developed by the club itself.
Hi mjc,
A great debut to your ‘ArsenalArsenal’ career 😛 so far your article has attracted over 3,000 visits to the site .. congratulations! Your name is in the List of Authors widget
Congrats from me too MJC. Well done Sir
This new idea I assume is designed to encourage clubs to invest more resources into English and Welsh players…but it seems to me that the tiny amount of talent that this country produces will become even more inflated forcing even more clubs to turn to, and develop, young players from other countries……just a thought.
I just saw the latest antics of Barcelona on tele here concerning the media manipulation re The Cesc Saga. Pepe Le Pew & Sandra Rosell are to make a “passionate” plea to Le Proffy in London to get him to sell our Captain who still has 4-5 years on his contract.
This pack of ignorant bastardos just do not understand the word “No”.
I hate Barcalona. FOREVER!!!!!!!
Agreed Gnarley !!
Morning all
Theres a NEW POST