Manchester United Football Club, nicknamed “the Red Devils” was founded as Newton Heath LYR Football Club in 1878, changed its name to Manchester United in 1902 and moved to its current stadium, Old Trafford, in 1910.
Arsenal and Manchester Untied both have an outstanding history and enjoy a great rivalry, however this boiled over in 1990 when a brawl between the two teams resulted in both clubs having points deductions in the Football League First Division. There was also a high level of enmity between Arsène Wenger (1996–2018) and Sir Alex Ferguson (1986–2013), and the two of the club’s former captains Patrick Vieira and Roy Keane.
This all came to a head during a league fixture in September 2003 that later become known as the “Battle of Old Trafford”. Arsenal players were aggrieved by Ruud van Nistelrooy’s antics – they felt he cheated trying get Patrick Vieira sent off – it resulted in an unseemly player melee. The next season, Manchester United ended Arsenal’s unbeaten run when Wayne Rooney took a dive to win a controversial penalty – after the game there was a skirmish in the tunnel which ended with Sir Alex enjoying some pizza. A total of seven red cards were shown in matches from February 1997 to February 2005.
Out of interest (mine) here are the players who have made appearances for both clubs.
Manchester United: 1938-1939 (0 apps; 0 goals); Arsenal: 1946-48 (33 apps, 1 goal)
Arsenal: 1954-1961 (166 apps, 99 goals); Manchester United: 1961-1968 (265 apps, 145 goals)
Arsenal: 1963-1969 (202 apps, 2 goals); Manchester United: 1969-1971 (65 apps, 1 goal)
Arsenal: 1966-1972 (308 apps, 77 goals); Manchester United: 1972-1974 (46 apps, 2 goals)
Manchester United: 1965-1974 (46 apps, 0 goals)
Arsenal: 1974-1977 (apps, 146, 0 goals)
Manchester United 1967-1974 (264 apps, 70 goals)
Arsenal 1974-1976 (90 apps, 34 goals)
Arsenal: 1971-1981 (300 apps, 108 goals)
Manchester United: 1981-1987 (288 apps, 78 goals)
Arsenal: 1984-1987 (150 apps, 15 goals)
Manchester United: 1987-1991 (64 apps, 4 goals)
Manchester United 1988-1991 (94 caps)
Arsenal 1991 (0 apps)
Manchester United 1982-1985 (0 apps)
Arsenal 1995-1998 (108 apps, 15 goals)
Arsenal: 1989-1992 (2 apps, 0 goals)
Manchester United: 1995-2001 (195 apps, 93 goals)
Manchester United 1999-2008 (361 apps, 10 goals)
Arsenal 2008-2010 (46 apps, 6 goals)
Robin van Persie
Arsenal: 2004-2012 (279 apps, 132 goals); Manchester United: 2012-2015 (105 apps, 58 goals)
Manchester United: 2008-2014 (142 apps, 29 goals)
Arsenal: 2014-present (91 apps, 22 goals)
Arsenal: 2014-2018 (122 apps, 60 goals)
Manchester United: 2018 – present (29 apps, 3 goals)
Manchester United: 2016-2018 (39 apps, 5 goals); Arsenal: 2018 – present (29 apps, 8 goals)
It hurts to write this but the fact is Manchester United are England’s most successful football team they have an extraordinary record of achievements – but I cannot bear to list them and I’m sure that you don’t want me to – so instead I will concentrate on our home games against them.
Our overall home record is very impressive and we dominated them at home prior to the introduction of the Premier League with a record of – W44, D11, L18, GF151, and GA84.
Even though it is less dominant, our winning home record has continued in the Premier League.
Historically this Sunday’s game is our 100th home league game against Manchester United and a little known fact is that United has lost more away games against Arsenal (54) than they have to any other Football League club – long may it last!
I sense another victory.
Some great stuff in there GN5, especially the last fact.
Interesting to note that almost all the 2 club players did better at AFC especially the record of Sanchez 😀 😀
Superb stuff, GN5.
These pre PMs have become a real feature of the site and always get good numbers of views.
The post today has so far had the following number of views from the countries below selected at random ….
South Africa 135
Up The Arse
What a smashing bit of history GN5. The played for both list would have been a great “guess quiz” for me. Saw all but the first two, and even remember our Dad talking positively about David Herd and bemoaning his transfer.
Still agonising about the Rennes performance and the lack of intelligence/backbone in the squad. Hope for two dynamic home performances in the next six days. Think it will be real test of Dick’s tactical and motivational skills. Regard tomorrow’s one as so much more important. Dread some of the possible selections. Wonder why AM-N and Mav have not been played recently.
Considered deleting all of the above, except appreciation for GN5’s work. COYG
According to Jeorge Bird on Twitter who covers all the Academy teams, Mavropanos hasn’t been training with the first team and the suspicion is that he’s had an injury setback.
Here’s a tweet from Mavro from March 6 where he looks like he’s training on his own building up strength.
The corresponding Newton Heath card
chas. Those cards are terrific. I want some.
LBG. From what we have seen the step up to the 1st team has been difficult for AMN. He appears to have the capability and talent but only time will tell if he has the “nuts”.
I would like to join all the other AA friends and thank you for another stupendous romp through football history.
Luckily I was up early this morning to allow plenty of time to digest all the information that you always supply. Brilliant! 😀
I have a irrational dislike of ManU – especially as am a denizen of said city.
That club, its players and definitely all the Man fans are bubbling since the weirdo got the boot.
Worries me that following our recent rubbish performance, we Gooner fans, the players and the goal posts are all somewhat subdued, and we could get a spanking tomorrow.
As I admitted yesterday, I am often wrong, but hopefully I will be correct in my prediction for tomorrow’s game — 3 : 2 to the Gunners.
So solly, the above comment is directed to my good friend GN5, obviously. 😃
Sorry to hear you are allergic to fish (yesterday) — I have a friend who is allergic to shellfish — not nice.
On the other hand, Rasper’s fish have breathed a sigh of relief. 🥺
It was good to chat to you yesterday, too. 😳
Despite your keyboard-related health issues you just keep producing these mini-masterpieces, GN5. Like you, I despise them and I hope we will trash them tomorrow.
What is interesting is the recent history. Since 2013 the Mancs have not won the league anymore and that is starting to be a long period now (it will take till at least 2020 before they can be winners again). They won an FA Cup, Charity Shield and UEFA Cup in that period, which is not bad but not great either, especially if you look back to their successes between the previous seven years (2006-2013). Arsenal decided to build Ashburton Grove in order to compete with the Mancs and you can say that they did not do much better than us in the previous six years, if better at all. Both teams need to do better going forward and now have to compete with four other big clubs for the few bits of silverware available. it is not going to get easier and it feels that if we can finish above the Mancs this season it would give us a real boost. A draw would be ok but a win would very sweet indeed. It will be hard without Torreira in midfield, and I am hoping that Elneny will get his place tomorrow.
Thanks very much indeed. Always a fascinating read.
ps I would argue Liverpool are England’s most successful side based on European Cups/Champions League wins
Bad news I’m afraid. The Saudi Royal family are after Utd. If it happens this summer, they will have one first objective: to be better than an Abu Dhabi team ie Man City. A numbing thought 😦
Have nice days all
Micky. Great. Drop a bomb and then disappear …
Don’t think that will make much difference anymore. MU already have big funds available and there are now about ten clubs in Europe with mega money available. There is only so much top-top class talent and they will be shared out across the filthy rich clubs. It also looks like we will not see another two of Messi and Ronaldo coming along for a while: players so talented that they can win silverware for their clubs almost every year. So money alone will not do it, I reckon. A good BoD with a long term vision and strong values, coupled with a quality manager who will stay on and keeps finding gems of players and produce a style of football that is stronger than the sum of its parts, may also lead to silverware. Pool, Atletico M, Dortmund come to mind (even though Dortmund have changed their manager a few times recently). Arsenal will have decent to good funds and the rest will be down to good decision making by the BoD. Not sure whether we are in a good place re the latter.
Thank you all for the positive vibes.
It’s interesting to see how many countries get to view AA posts. When I sit down to research and put together a post my thrust is to make them interesting for those of us that comment on AA without any thought for others who read our posts – but it’s very satisfying to know that we also have an outside audience.
Chas do we get many visits from Canadians.
GN5. So far today, and of course one must allow for time differences, there have been 10 visitors from Canada.
Almost 400 from South Africa!
933 views today of the post today of which 10 are from Canada.
Today so far (first page)
I too had heard the rumour that the Saudi princes were interested in buying into ManU.
It would not be a problem to me if they or someone else bought out Arsenal instead.
I suspect that might bring on a plethora of horrified complaints from those who do not want that and talk about the ‘Arsenal Way’, as I used to myself.
That era has long gone because with all the money pouring into professional football now those old days will not return anytime soon, and frankly the Kroenke’s are not good examples, being mainly absentee owners with no interest in football.
I also read an article suggesting that Pep Guardiola is now interested in moving to Italy in a season or two, to manage a top club there, as his work with ManCity is now done.
Probably all bowlocks, as most football rumours are.
Of course, GN5, 1 of the 10 from Canada does not count because …………. it’s you!! 😃
Who would have thought that the most views would be from South Africa, but it is well known that sports in general is very popular.
You are right about the time zone difference Raddy, it’s now 7:19am here.
Canada has multiple time zones, I’m in the Eastern time zone.
PST Pacific Standard Time Vancouver Sat, 4:23:07 am
MST Mountain Standard Time Edmonton Sat, 5:23:07 am
CST Central Standard Time Winnipeg Sat, 6:23:07 am
EST Eastern Standard Time Toronto Sat, 7:23:07 am
AST Atlantic Standard Time Halifax Sat, 8:23:07 am
NST Newfoundland Standard Time St. John’s Sat, 8:53:07 am
I’m scratching my head about what to write for next weeks post on Rennes.
Canada up to 15 now
I was thinking about other home games against French teams.
Also ties which we’ve turned round in the second leg or had heroic failures in (losing 4-0 away to Milan springs to mind).
A bit about last Thursday’s calamity – maybe see how the Rennes faithful view the second leg.
Good ideas Chas, I’m sure that between us we can scratch something together.
Those South Africans are probably mainly Manc supporters (as the club’s name is in the title).
My biggest concern about tommorow’s game is the mind set of the two teams.
We lost a game against a lower echelon team, a game that we should have won easily, and arguably we fielded the best 11 we had available.
Man U won an away game to (on paper) a superior team and were down by two away goals – but despite the odds, (including fielding a team of second string players) the beat the odds and came away as winners.
Unai will have to be a miracle worker to motivate his squad.
TA, you are probably correct, their name recognition is enormous.
I agree with you, GN5, that the mindsets of the two teams could have a big influence on the outcome of tomorrow’s game.
The result of the Manure game against PSG was very impressive putting them through to the next CL round, when everyone thought they would lose and go out.
I actually watched the game with a couple of my Manc friends and I would classify that result as being unbelievably lucky.
The first goal by Lukaku was pure carelessness by PSG, and was a bit like the goal Rambo scored at Wembley against the Spuds.
The second was a really shoddy bit of keeping by one of the greatest GKs in football history, allowing a straightforward shot, hit straight at him, to bounce out of his arms to Lukaku to score again.
And the third was a disgraceful piece of refereeing awarding a penalty for a non-penalty foul, even using the VAR system.
Leaving that aside, ManU have better quality players than we do, and altho they should have been eliminated, I feel their euphoria for that win will make life very difficult for our boys after their terrible performance on Thursday.
But I am still going for a 3 : 2 Arsenal win.
No, GN5, I think the quality of your Post writing is becoming known far and wide.
Those figures are about you, both in the UK and abroad. 😳
Go! Go! G-G-N-N-5 😜
Here are the views for GN5’s pre PM for Rennes away.
It seems South Africa is the best supporter of Arsenal Arsenal in the world regardless of opposition.
LBG – Although I must have seen him in my early visits to Highbury (1947) I cannot remember Paddy Sloan – so I looked up his career –
Joshua Walter Sloan (30 April 1920 – January 1993), known as Paddy Sloan, was an Irish footballer and manager. Sloan played with English clubs such as Manchester United, Millwall, Fulham and Arsenal. He also featured for Italian sides Milan, Udinese, Torino and Brescia. Sloan as well played with clubs from Northern Ireland, Malta and Australia. He was a dual Irish international footballer as he played for both the IFA XI and the FAI XI. Sloan pioneered the way for the likes of Liam Brady and Robbie Keane by becoming the first Irishman to play in Serie A.
At the end of the Second World War, Tranmere Rovers were expecting Sloan to return to them. However, his wartime guest appearances had attracted the interest of several clubs including his former club Manchester United and Arsenal. Sloan eventually left Tranmere and in May 1946 to sign for the Gunners without much ado. This was so given the nonexistence of the rivalry between the two clubs at the time. He made his league debut for Arsenal on 31 August in a 6–1 defeat against Wolverhampton Wanderers. During the subsequent 1946–47 season, he made 27 league appearances and scored one goal, establishing himself as a regular in the Arsenal team. He also played a further three games for the club in the FA Cup. However, in the following season, 1947–48, Sloan lost his place to Archie Macaulay and he only made three league appearances as Arsenal went on to win the old First Division in 1947-48 without him. He played his last game for Arsenal in a league game against Portsmouth on 4 October 1947. In February 1948, Sloan left Arsenal and signed for Sheffield United.
It does make sense Chas as a lot of British people move to S.A and S.A’s really do love their sports.
And all for me! Thank you Sir, for all that effort.
He was obviously a much travelled Irishman, as many of his country men with “skills” chose to be in the post Second World War period. Returning to a largely rural Ireland was to be avoided unless you had land ( or were a ship builder).
73 is a good innings as well, and I bet he would have told an interesting story of his life!
The Saints just beat Spurs 2-1 – how good is that!!!
Trust the spuds to cheer me up. ☺
Perennial bottlers 😀 😀
No fear, they will almost win the Champions League
Just got cross as I was rained off from what I was doing outside, so came in. Now I feel much better 🙂
Got a feeling a draw tomorrow might be enough. Spuds still need to go away to
Pool and City, while Chavs away to Utd and Pool (I think)
Ah ha, I see I’m not alone
We are never far away from a keyboard Micky.
How can you not love the tech. age 🙂
I’m still in awe of it Micky, I grew up with gas lighting, coal fires, cold water, no phones, no TV, and no car.
Strangely I ended up on the executive team of the largest computer products company in Canada – even though I had a minimum of technology knowledge. Life takes you on many journeys.
Spuds were winning 0 : 1 and apparently in a different league to S/Hampton, so I carried on watching the rugby.
Scotland v Wales and now England v Italy.
Great games. Those who do not like rugby, give it a go — non-stop action, no sulky players etc, and England are terrific to watch.
The Spuds being spuds, England in their pomp, and I love it. 👍 ✌️
If a PL team win the CL and finish in the Top 4, does that mean we will get an extra CL place?.
Or if a PL team win the EL and finish in the top 4?
Could we get a possible 6 CL places?
Need someone who understands such matters
5 is the maximum.
It’s possible that finishing 4th won’t get CL.
Absolutely pathetic offside decision in the City game for their first goal has opened the floodgates.
LBG sent me this a week or so back.
another great post GN5, thank you.
I stand by what I predicted, we will finish in top 4 and Spuds wont.
I read that Pep has verbal agreements to leave ManC and is off to Juventus.
I cannot predict the next game as I’m not sure which of our teams will show up.
Well done spuds, that penalty miss is starting to seem a thing of the past.
It’s the people around him that say so much…………….
He should be careful he doesn’t start a fire with his thighs rubbing together!
Canada moved up to 5th in the end with 62!
Looking out of the window, it is definately not a Mesut day
Haha, not really.
I listened to Arseblog’s Arsecast yesterday for the first time for ages and he was saying that he thought Mesut played quite well on Thursday but that playing in a team down to 10 men after 40 minutes wasn’t really ideal circumstances for him.
My reaction was that at 350k a week, you should be able to cope with any flippin circumstance.
Have to agree Micky! Perhaps Aaron can show us it’s not just Wembley!
No Micky at training yesterday! No not you Micky!
No Lingard or the runt Herrera for Manure.
What makes you say that a player who grew up in mid-western Germany, where they have at least as cold winters as in the UK, would not be able to shine during ‘cold’ weather games?!
Slow start for BR after a night on the mead.
Love it! Two classics.
Paddy Power are making their offers for next week’s Cheltenham meet.
” We are offering your stake back if your horse comes 2nd, 3rd or 4th….in the big races next week………….And yes we are naming it after the experts at coming second, it’s the TOTTENHAM HOTSPURS 2ND, 3RD OR 4TH OFFER”.
And from the papers:-
“Despite their announcement this week that Tottenham will be playing their first game in their new stadium in April this year, the event could be delayed still further. Tottenham have left only one foot at each corner before the drop off outside the pitch, leaving no room for the player taking the corner”
There is a New, tongue-in-cheek Post