There is no £200 million in the bank to spend on new players

This site is blessed with a healthy ‘return’ of accountants amongst its contributors … ‘return’ is the collective noun for accountants. As a genre, they don’t suffer fools lightly. Here are some pointed responses to the mythical £200m in the bank story that is being widely touted on the net.

The following comments are all from qualified accountants:

GoonerInExile

For the love of God can people stop talking about £200m sitting in the bank….it’s one number from a set of accounts….surely we all have more than one brain cell and understand that it’s not ours to spend today.

First I’ll put it in basic terms:

It’s pay day you receive your monthly wage, let’s say for arguments sake £2k.

This month you have to pay for your mortgage/rent, food, rates, clothes, fuel etc.

Do you have £2k to blow on a night out in London?

Hopefully the answer is no.

Now let’s get to the Arsenal figures:

Fixed Assets (Land, Buildings, Investments) £596m

Current Assets (Stock, Debtors and cash of £228m) £323m

Current Liabilities (Creditors, loans etc) £273m

Long Term Liabilities (Mortgages etc) £314m

Add first two deduct second two Net Assets are £330m

Now let’s understand something, Net current assets are £60m, so the most “cash” we had to spend was £60m, we have to generate profit to keep paying mortgage without reducing our cash more, in 2014/15 we would have lost £8m if it wasn’t for profit on player sales of £28m, if anyone failed to notice we didn’t sell anyone this season so that’s going to be more than likely. Loss in 2015/16 and out cash would have gone down by whatever that loss is.

So please stop regurgitating nonsense heard on media outlets with the sole objective of winding Arsenal fans up.

If the fans that want to believe we are so bad are correct can someone explain me this….how the f*** are we even 4th? Because everyone else is rubbing this year? Well that doesn’t really hold water does it?

We should have spent £x million on players as we haven’t got a squad capable of doing anything great, but the manager is also poor for not getting the most out of these average players?

Sorry you can’t have both, either manager bad and players get him out of jail, or players bad and managers system and tactics gets most out of them.

TerryManciniHairTransplant

Frustrating isn’t it GIE?

Funny that the ones who bang on about £200 million have little to no understanding of interpreting a balance sheet.

I know quite a few other chartered accountants who generally interpret the figures as you and I, they have no choice, it’s there in black and white

There is one colleague, an Arsenal season ticket holder who though agrees with the general premise feels we fail to take enough risks. Fair enough, I don’t agree but it’s his point of view but whilst having a beer with him the othe day I mentioned I know some people who think we have £200 to spend today, we both spilled our beer from laughing.

RA

A special well done to GIE, for trying I suspect without any hope, would help people to understand what is obvious to us, that a company’s working capital is just a snapshot in time and is continually changing.

As it happens, I got paid for some work I did for a friend and got his check yesterday and banked it, without giving away personal info, let’s say it was for £750.

So with £750 in the bank, or ‘cash’ as some like to see it, I am off down to buy a laptop today, so that I do not have to keep borrowing my buddy’s crap one.

Only….I’m not. Why? Because if I did that I would not be able to pay my share of the rent in two weeks time, and I also have to pay my share of the fuel costs here.

So this magical, mystery £60m, or whatever is the current flavour of the blogs, that Arsenal had at the end of May last year, did that include payment in advance for some season tickets in the current season, or does some of it have to go towards paying salaries, or our debts, or, or, or.

I fear we are not getting the message across Exile and I wish you luck with that. 😀

Ed: Do you wish to cross fiscal swords with these assessments or has the message finally come across?

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186 Responses to There is no £200 million in the bank to spend on new players

  1. Big Raddy says:

    Thanks Chaps.

    I have no wish to cross fiscal swords with experts but …

    A successful businessman knows that in order to compete and grow it is necessary to speculate; not foolhardy throw-away risky investments but carefully assessed forward planning.

    So what if we go into debt if it leads to silverware?

    Is it OK to put the club in debt for the stadium but not for the players who attract the paying punter?

    Put it this way. If you are out on the pull, do you think you have more chance driving a Porsche and going into the VIP areas of nightclubs or taking your Ford Mondeo and looking sheepishly at the dance floor?

  2. chas mobile says:

    As gormon says, is the balance sheet trophy all we aspire to? 🙂

    Mondeo for me every day. With a Porshe you’ll only attract pneumatic glamour models after your cash. Where’s the fun in that?

  3. sleepinggiant says:

    All missing the point to a serious degree. The actual figure is not really relevant and, intentionally or not, you are creating a smokescreen. The relevant aspect of it is not the actual figure, but the principle that our cash at bank simply dwarves the cash at bank of most if not all other European clubs. Each of these clubs clubs has the same balance sheet issues (the smokescreen above) that we have but the figure conclusively finally and unequivocally proves that, in respect of these issues we have far more available cash from that particular pot to spend than any other club, unless that club has greater cash reserves. That is simply self explanatory.

    The real issue of course is not the cash. Reserve. As proven, if that was the be all and all we would be in a position to outspend everyone. No other fans talk about their budget in relation to cash reserves as the latter is usually miniscule. And they are demonstrably correct. Because budget is not related to cash reserves in any meaningful way..it is related to how much an owner is prepared to out in to the club . The myth of the 60-100m is created because of our massive cash at bank, which is such a large figure that Ill informed journos latch on toast as it sounds like a feasible budget and all that might be availableto a premier league club.. But of course this is total crap as proven by the amount of money spent by clubs with no cash reserves. If cash reserves equated to budget no prem clubs would be available to spend. So the point made above is technically correct; we don’t have 200m to spend. Given our incomes, new TV deals ffp compliance, obscene wealth of our owner and greater wealth of our minority shareholder, we could easily spend far far more than that. A section of our fan base wants to live in the past by denying this but it is an undeniable fact. What we have to spend depends on owners whim alone. And his means are as limitless as anyone in football outside psg and city. Indeed there is talk that he will soon be investing 2bn in the la rams….200m budget…. What a laugh.

  4. FunGunner says:

    Finally! Thanks for this.

  5. Eddie says:

    great comment Giant!

  6. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Well put together, yet again, Rasp.
    It is much appreciated, thank you.

    Soo, here’s a surprise, we kick off the day with Erik bringing the tone down so low that he’s likening Arsenal business to his seedy pulling girls years.

  7. Eddie says:

    feck the balance sheet! I am off to buy a new car!

  8. chas mobile says:

    but seriously how do any of you go about your daily lives?

  9. Eddie says:

    ha ha ha chas 🙂

  10. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Ok, I have not been through Arsenal accounts and have no intention of doing so, however, much as I respect the three individual contributors, an accountant is a machine that does what it is programmed to do within legal requirements, and those do allow a certain, urrrr, elasticity 🙂

    Those figures reveal very little for anyone to make any kind of assessment as to how the business is run, although to be fair to the authors, none are claiming anything other than to reveal what the accounts show to be the cash balance.

    My view is that the cash figure is fairly uninteresting as a stand alone fact.

  11. MickyDidIt89 says:

    chas mobile

    “but seriously how do any of you go about your daily lives?”

    I thought the non-accountants among us answered that the other day with perfect clarity, but to repeat myself, the answer was drugs
    🙂

  12. kelsey says:

    Specifically, Arsenal’s huge cash balance is still the talk of the town and has gone up yet again, rising another £20 million in the last 12 months from £208 million to £228 million. Let’s pause to absorb that number: that’s nearly a quarter of a billion.

    To place that into context, the next highest cash balances in the Premier League in the 2013/14 season were Manchester United £66 million, Tottenham Hotspur £39 million and Newcastle United £34 million. In fact, Arsenal held 40% of the total cash in the Premier League that season: £208 million against £311 million for all 19 other clubs combined. Manchester United’s 2014/15 balance has increased to £156 million, but this is still £72 million less than Arsenal.

    Lord Harris was quick to boast about the club’s financial capacity: “Money was tight when we moved to the Emirates, but it’s a lot freer now. In the accounts, there’s over £200 million in the bank.”(Swiss Ramble)

    Accountants are notorious for cooking the books and finding loop holes in the tax system.

    Last published accounts show players wages as 166 million pounds and rising.

    I don’t believe we only have 60 million to spend, our revenue from different sources especially TV keeps going up,it’s just Wenger except for the odd exception or three prefers to shop in Poundland 🙂
    Don’t bother to convince me otherwse and anyway we will soon here about all these players we nearly signed.AE is a proud stubborn man and is still living in the past and most probably doesn’t even know the real value or price of players in today’s market though Petr cech at around 10 million was a good buy but we only bought him as Szsney fell out of favour with AW and in that respect he is not a man to cross swaords with.

    Also as long as we are top 4 the revenue increases yet we still have to pay until 2030 for the stadium, so maybe caution comes into it.Anyway I am not changing my mind.

    Sometimes you have to spend more than you can initially think you can afford so as to improve your business, but then again football isn’t run like any other business.

  13. Danish Gooner says:

    It is a rubbish Argument because eveyone know any payment comes in installments,Lets say Arsenal buys Pogba for 60 mil,like when you buy a house there is a down payment, in football it is generally higher then in real life lets say 33% it is 20 mil and the rest comes in installments over 2 or 3 years so we are not going in to red even if we buy 2 or 3 world class players.And exactly why can Barca buy Suarez one season and Neymar the next and spend a staggering 150 mil on those players when we are touted as the richest football club in the world and we are deemed paupers,i tell you why walcott and Wheel chair Wilshire are being paid far to much money and the false socialist wage structure wenger have implemented where everyone gets a pay rise even tough they have been more on the treatment table then on the footall field is wrong.Parlour,Hillier,selley etc had to perform to be rewarded.Lokk at the incredible wastage we have in our squad Rosicky on 80 to 100 grand a week,welbeck etc are so over paid it is a joke.

  14. Danish Gooner says:

    Wenger told us all to financially compete we had to move away from Highbury,ten years in to the emirates exerience he still only lines his own pocket and Stanley,Gazidis and his croonies and feeds us scraps from tesco like Elneny.

  15. RA says:

    Morning Folks,

    It cannot be denied that the vast majority of fans believe (correctly) that Arsenal had £220m cash in the bank in May 2015.
    However, even though the Balance Sheet shows that sum it is not all available to spend on players.

    What Exile was trying to say, in response to those who keep parroting this figure [and others] as if it was gospel, is that the club could buy a £220m player with it.

    Whether or not Arsenal should have a different strategy along the lines mentioned by the Honourable Raddish, that you need to ‘speculate to accumulate, with certain risks inevitably involved’ is another issue, and tho there is nothing wrong with that – it is just not what the headline is addressing.

    The idea that a multi-billionaire like Silent Stan could outspend anyone, if he wanted to put his money into Arsenal, overlooks the fact that there are teams like Real Madrid, and Barcelona who are ‘helped’ financially by their regional governments for political reasons, or that PSG and Man Citeh are owned by two oil rich states.
    In addition the UEFA FFP rules, which link profits to spending on wages and player purchases, prevent owners simply pumping non-football money into their clubs. Irritating to some – but true none the less.

    And that is not the topic of this particular Post, but feel free to rant if you wish.

    There is a really great Blog called ‘The Swiss Ramble’ that I recommend even to non-accountants to read. It addresses many issues based on the latest Financial Accounts, including the fact there is £228m cash at bank, on May 31st 2015, but goes on to explain why it is not just a transfer fund.

    Here is an excerpt that I think explains this –

    Chief Executive Ivan Gazidis, had previously explained why not all of the £228m cash balance is available to spend on transfers: “It is quite untrue that we are sitting on a huge cash pile for some unspecified reason. The vast majority of that cash is accounted for in various ways.”

    In fact, the club is so sensitive on this point that the accounts note that “proper consideration” of the cash balance should make deductions for the £35 million debt service reserve and the net £66 million owed on previous player purchases, which would leave “only” £128 million.

    The annoying debt service reserve has been required since the 2006 bond agreements, though it does raise the question of whether these arrangements could be renegotiated given Arsenal’s significantly better financial position today, thus freeing up this £35 million.

    It is also true that most season ticket renewals for 2015/16 are paid in April and May, so Arsenal’s cash balance will always be at its highest when its annual accounts are prepared, namely 31st May.

    The club has to pay a good proportion of its annual running expenses out of this cash, though it is equally true that other money will flow into the club during the course of the [current] season, such as TV distributions and merchandise sales.

    Despite all of these factors, the truth is that year after year Arsenal’s cash balance has steadily risen: [May 2007 £74 million, May 2008 £93 million, May 2009 £100 million, May 2010 £128 million, May 2011 £160 million, May 2012 £154 million, May 2013 £153 million, May 2014 £208 million and May 2015 £228 million.]

    In other words, there is substantial money available to spend.
    It’s clearly not as much as the £228 million in the books, but it can be said, with some conviction that there would be enough available in the January transfer window [just gone] to safely cover some of the glaring weaknesses in the squad: let’s say £70-80 million (with the usual caveats).

    I can find no reason to argue with that at present.

  16. RA says:

    Opps –is that the club could NOT buy a £220m player with it.”

    See my comment.

  17. GoonerB says:

    A rectum of accountants eh. Explains a lot.

    Now sorry GIE, Terry and RA, but I am afraid that none of you know what you are talking about. I have it on good authority from my accountant (LoonyCornishMonster & sons & daughters accountants Ltd) that the £200m is alive and well, being carefully hidden in Arsene Wengers matchday coat. It sometimes gets in the way of him being able to do it up properly.

  18. Danish Gooner says:

    But it is simply a smoke screen,Arsenal can afford any player in the world except maybe for Neymar and Messi but when United are capable of offering a staggering 144 mil for Neymar why shouldnt we ??? Seven years are left before we have paid of the stadium,if we keep earning money like we do know we will sit on a kitty of 500 or 600 mil and it is not even unlikely.New stadium right in2018 and other commercial very valuable things.We are loaded and when we are finshed paying the annual 25 mil for the stadium money will be available beyond anyones wildest imagination.And i know one or two accountants that says exactly the same.

  19. Danish Gooner says:

    Look at the transfers of Ozil and Sanchez a combined fee of 75 mil and they didnt even dip in to the vault but paid of Barca and Madrid on general account that is how strong we are financially.We could buy 5 world class players in the summer and still have change left or sell some of the over paid average dross who currently employ their trade at our beloved club and there is plenty to pick from.

  20. kelsey says:

    Look here RA I have quoted The swiss ramble in my comment which proves conclusively that you don’t read my comments 🙂 Of course in simple terms we are a club steeped in history, do things the correct way and need always have to have some cash in reserve for a rainy day. We don’t do credit or Provident Cards 😉

  21. GoonerB says:

    On a second note, I am nominating Raddy as my new going out on the pull buddy. I have put the Mondeo in the garage, and put on my tight fit chino’s (reserved for VIP areas only).What time are you coming around in the Porsche to pick me up Raddy?

  22. MickyDidIt89 says:

    As I drove about this morning, I was listening to Desert Island Discs, and they had that bright spark Bill Gates on.

    His charitable foundation is the largest of its kind, and has so far dished out $34 Billion!!

    It’s objective is to cure diseases that kill children. So far they’ve wiped polio off the African map and next in line is malaria.

    Could one or two in our youth team develop something nasty, and make us eligible?

  23. GoonerB says:

    Loving this today. Different perspectives from those that know about figures. Accountants squaring up to each other. I hope it doesn’t get messy with Bic pens flying everywhere and balance sheets being used as lethal weapons.

  24. GoonerB says:

    Micky, we do have snailupfrontitis and Ramseyfromtherightitis. I don’t know if those nasty afflictions qualify us for Bills generosity.

  25. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GB
    I think I’ve mentioned this, but when I went to watch us in Dortmund with Raddy, I had rented a car at the airport. As we entered the car pick-up depot, the bloody leftie stroked a Porsche, and dribbling, grumbled that we could have rented one of them 🙄

    He IS actually that sleazy

  26. MickyDidIt89 says:

    ha ha GB 🙂

  27. sleepinggiant says:

    Ra
    I think by now we all have at least a remedial understanding of ffp etc. But it applies to everyone as much as arsenal.

    The underlying point is that there is a strange almost sinister attempt by some so called fans to talk down arsenals financial power to justify the also ran status of the last decade.

    Let’s get real. Other than self imposed ones, There is not a single financial constraint on arsenal that doesn’t apply to every other club you mentioned.

    Equally by virtually every measure I have ever seen, arsenal are are very close to the top of every category of wealth, be it owner or club.

    We are the super rich, mega rich, uber rich, however uncomfortable that makes some fans feel. The number crunching of internal figures is a smokescreen. What we need to know is simpl and obvious not from naval gazing but from the published figures for all our competitors. With the exception of psg city and Madrid given their political ties, there is nobody in a position to outspend us. Man u if they get themselves sorted maybe. But that is it. Period. We are the big league but pretend otherwise. Reason being that our owner has chosen only to allow to spend what we earn(and we don’t even do that we should note!) thereby creating an unnecessary glass ceiling. And even though I as a fan find this distasteful I could almost see the principle… Until the rams deal surfaced that is. Truth is we are the money making engine of the empire which will allow stan to lavish his attention on his priority toy.

  28. Danish Gooner says:

    If Barca wants to buy Ramsey for 60 mil you dont have to be an accountant to know it is a great deal.

  29. Danish Gooner says:

    Sleepinggigant,if we are supposed to spend the money we earn why cant we dip in to the 200 mil vault,afterall it is money we earned they havnt suddenly appeared out of thin air like they do at City and Chavski ?????????? My point is like you said yourself that the vault is not ear marked for Arsenal but in case the rams deal becomes more expensive then supposed,

  30. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Cheers for the post Rasp

    Because Danish its like you getting paid your salary £200 at the beginning of the month, having to keep £35 behind otherwise the bank will reposes your house and needing £100 for that week to buy your groceries, pay your gas bill, and drink some Carlsberg.

    Its not that difficult to understand mate. Maybe you should go easy with the beer and like every one else on here take up drugs.

    Sleeping, I hear what your saying about kronke not putting in his own money, with the way things are going FFP is a lot weaker and with the growth of football he will probably get his money back, but thats not the point.

    The debate is about available funds if Arsenal continue with there strict self sustaining model and at present I make Redders (RA) about right £70 million odd.

  31. chas says:

    I’m confused.
    Does this mean that Stan will take the £200m cash reserve out of the bank and spend it on the LA Rams?

    If so, I’m livid. ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

  32. Herb's Army says:

    Arsenal don’t have money to compete but their wage-bill is four times higher than Leicester’s and they can afford to make their manager one of the highest paid manager’s in world football.
    Staggering.
    We’ve gone from being dynamic trail-blazers to now being a Corporate autocratic money-making machine.
    We used to be a very successful FOOTBALL club that didn’t need to hang on to the coat-tails of any other club.
    It’s only been a short time since our chief spin-doctor, Ivan Gazidis likened us to Bayern Munich.
    On reflection, aside from Ozil, Sanchez and latterly Cech, such has been the paucity of quality arriving at Arsenal, Arsene Wenger has actually over-achieved with a lot of uniquely average players.

  33. I love the irony of us all obsessing about spending money as if its the answer to all football related issues whilst Leicester sit top of the PL!!!
    🙂 🙂 🙂

  34. RA says:

    Oh, don’t be silly, Chas, everyone knows that SS is going to move Arsenal, lock, stock and barrel, to LA and rename them the Jammy Dodgers.

    And that’s including everything in the petty cash tin. 🙂 innit?

  35. chas says:

    So is he going to run off with the loot then, RA?

  36. GoonerB says:

    Can we say today is tactical bolleux for number crunchers 🙂

    Thanks RA, GIE, Terry for your insight. Truth be known I have long listened to your wisdom when it comes to accounts. I do though agree with Raddy’s earlier point about speculating to accumulate. The right calculated financial risks can pay dividends if it secures, firstly big trophies, and as a result increases in fan base, merchandising, and sponsorship desirability.

    I always like to look at what we have from within in the first instance and, as you all know, I still feel we have a lot more there than we realise but aren’t quite maximizing its use.

    If that aspect is taken care of then we probably will need at most 2-3 signings to complete this squad. I think it should be a couple of top signings at high price rather than a raft of lesser ones. It will cost a bit but not £200m+, so Arsene can rest assured that he can retain some of that money under his match day coat.

  37. chas says:

    I’m so confused.
    I prefer tactical bolleaux to financial bolleaux and I hate tactical bolleaux.

    It’s like being in court as a jury member – every single person there is lying to you in some way: defendant, defence lawyer, prosecution lawyer, police, defence witnesses, prosecution witnesses, even other jury members.
    All except the judge and he’s not allowed to tell you the truth.

    How are you meant to make any sense of it?

  38. chas says:

  39. fatgingergooner says:

    Chas

    Does his brother E.Bola play for us!? 🙂

  40. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Hello again

    Fact. We need an expensive forward. The whole world knows it.
    Fact. Arsenal could afford it.

    That’s about all we care about. Whether they need to flog some idiotic overpaid staff, footballers or otherwise, or not we don’t care. Not one bit.

  41. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Ok, fresh air before it gets dark

  42. GoonerB says:

    Micky, don’t quite get what you mean in your 1.57. Could you stop being so enigmatic.

  43. All true Micky, but does anyone honestly believe that if a top class CF like Lewandowski became available we wouldnt be bidding because we want to keep money in the bank?

    Look at Sanchez and Ozil, as soon as Wenger knew they were available he did everything to get them to the club.

    I’ve no doubt Wenger wants a striker, but i’ve also no doubt he will wait until someone he actually wants is on the market. The problem for some fans is that they see some srikers as being good enough but Wenger doesnt, and they get annoyed when he doesnt buy them. His scouting network is far better than mine so i will trust that he will buy us the right player when they become available. Hopefully that will be in the summer!

  44. GoonerB says:

    Chas, I would never lie to you 🙂 As such take it from me that you don’t have to get stressed about exactly what we do and don’t have.

    We only need to sort out the strikers position, the right side of midfield and possibly the central defence. We may even have the options within the club if Welbeck gets a go from Arsene and quickly moves on to a new level. His potential is high.

    If Chambers and Gabriel come on leaps and bounds then the CD may even look more rosy. In the progression of Campbell, and the possible options of Iwobi and Wilshere (when back from injury) we may start to look a bit more worldy, and more importantly balanced, at right midfield as well.

    Even if we had to buy all 3 at high price externally it still doesn’t get towards the magic figure talked about today. So we can afford what we need to complete the squad at the highest level, so don’t trouble yourself with who said what and who is lying to you. Put your trust in me Chas 🙂

  45. Herb's Army says:

    Let’s hope it’s not the same scouting network that found us Jeffers, Chamakh and Sanogo.

  46. fatgingergooner says:

    Herb,

    Its to avoid those sort of players that we are having to wait so long for a striker.

    IMO Wenger doesnt want a £15m striker who needs a bit of work, he’s got Welbeck for that. I think a £30-£40m proven goalscorer is what he craves and ive no doubt he would pay the money if one was available.

  47. Herb's Army says:

    FGG

    I’d have thought at £4m, Charlie Austin was worth a punt as an alternative to Giroud or Walcott.
    I often think it’s our own snobbery that kills us.

  48. fatgingergooner says:

    Herb

    You may be right, but he wouldnt give us anything we dont already have IMO. Some people complained that we spent £5m on Elneny even though theyd never seen him play, so im not sure how a £4m Austin wouldve gone down!

    I dont believe price tag has anything to do with quality and potential, but we’ve had issues at the striker position for a while so i think the next one has to be someone who’s done it at the top level and that will always cost money.

  49. Herb's Army says:

    He’s proven at PL level and came off the bench to score the winner at Old Trafford. Every club could do with a squad player like Austin.
    Given that we are often the architects of our own short-comings and haven’t mounted a serious title-challenge since moving to The Emirates, I’m not sure we can attract a marquee striker. Naturally I hope I’m wrong, but we don’t compete at the top end of the market.

  50. RA says:

    Hi FGG,

    I think you were thinking of Tom Bola.

    Your comment @ 2:27 was very sensible.

    RC tends to lead the way in listing and naming players he thinks would be good for Arsenal, and many others on other blogs elsewhere often say they would have x, or y, ‘in a heart beat’ quite oblivious, it seems, to the basic formalities of their clubs wanting to sell, or the player wanting to leave, or Wenger thinking they are value for money. Small things – but, you know…….. 🙂

  51. RA says:

    Chasser,

    Don’t listen to that GB about who is or who is not lying to you — Micky will never pay you for those tickets, and the said GB is more likely to worm you than not.

    Just look into my eyes, and sleep — look into my eyes and trust in me — sleep — relax and send me all your money – and your Arsenal tickets — sleep — only wake up after you have sent me everything.

    See, you can trust me – not that Raddish, Mickish or Gibberish. 😀

  52. GoonerB says:

    Spoken like a true accountant redders 🙂

  53. Gööner In Exile says:

    Here’s a question for the naysayers to answer.

    Let’s say we had the £70m at start of this season, and let’s assume our profits are resulting in cash increases of £20m per season, we’ve spent this years profits on ….. Elneny and Cech, and kept a little bit back. So in the summer our available to spend is £76m, but we know that Flamini, Arteta, Rosicky definitely need to be replaced, Santi also will need an understudy and unless the Corporal is prepared to come back and ride the pine we may need to find a right back too and of course BFG is nearing the end of his playing days.

    We need to replace 4 players in the squad at least to keep our current depth, that’ll take some doing in my book with £76m, so we hope Ox, Naitland-Miles, Akpom, Iwobi, Bielek and Zelalem can fill the void and then Arsene may beaver to utilise that cash on some icing and cherries, if not we will need to look at buying in squad players to fill the void, which will eat up a large chunk of cash.

    Here’s the other thing about our cash, the PL money comes in at the end of the season, as does the CL money, 75% of match day income (STs) have already been received. This is all needed to fund wage increases of the players, and operational costs. Should our prize money reduce we won’t have that £76m to spend.

    There is no doubt that speculating to accumulate holds water on the playing side, is trophies, but it doesn’t make a business case…..the extra revenue gained from the trophies but show a businessman the potential extra return from the investment and the chances are limited.

    Once more I agree with FGG, Leicester are evidence of why spending isn’t always the answer, a good team spirit everyone on form, momentum and the whole of the ground backing them with unbelievable noise makes them a powerful force.

    How many groans do you think you hear at Leicester.

    I’ve just listened to the recent Tuesday Club podcast where Alan Davies criticise the ground and the people in it, without understanding that he is part of the problem, you can’t go every week and then complain the club haven’t created a home end of that fans don’t sing if your in the ground not singing and doing as much moaning as the next man, Ian Stones son had reported back that on Tuesday night his biggest disappointment wasn’t he groans and getting on players backs. I have to agree.

    Look at Leicester’s ground show me the home end that any thought we should have built, it’s not there, they just go and support and they’re enjoying it, and giving their team immense lift when they step out. Same goes at ManUre for what is happening at Emirates and prior to Klopps arrival at Liverpool, City fans are still in dreamland so they still make a noise without a “home end”. The rest of the traditional big clubs we wait to be given something to cheer, and that puts us at a huge disadvantage. But what really annoyed me is that he sits there bemoaning the fact that there aren’t more young people in the ground getting beered up and letting rip in the stadium, if that’s how you feel, move aside give your seats to a bunch of youngsters and see how it improves or not, but he won’t he moans about COCup nights because the majority of supporters in the ground get too excited and the merest glimpse of an attack. 🙄

  54. GoonerB says:

    Herb, I have to politely disagree. I would see the purchase of Austin as a purchase for purchase’s sake.

    “He is proven at premier league level”. To a degree I would say but no more so than Walcott, Welbeck and Giroud, so he would just be a 4th striker option with no significant upgrade in quality, and we don’t lack for options numbers wise up front IMO.

    “He scored at Old Trafford”. Excellent so have many other strikers. So did Welbeck last season. Combinations of Giroud, welbeck and Theo have all scored at places like Old Trafford, Stamford bridge and the Etihad.

    I agree with FGG that if we are to bring in a striker it has to be a top quality and very expensive one.

  55. Gööner In Exile says:

    An argument against Austin is that he got injured after one game for Saints, so that would have had everyone very happy wouldn’t it?

    There are a long list of names of players that everyone said we should sign who after their big move have drifted into obscurity or riding the pine within a season or two, whilst everyone else is short termist (who can blame the managers when they have 2/3 seasons max to convince clubs they can stay on and do the job) Arsene tends to look a little further ahead because he can and because it’s in the best interests of the club to do so.

    My biggest worry is that Afobe is going to come back and bite us on the derrière on Sunday.

  56. Herb's Army says:

    Hi GiE

    So how exactly are Leicester out-performing their much wealthier superiors?

  57. Herb's Army says:

    Hi GB

    Welbeck scored the winner in a reasonably irrelevant FA Cup tie, Austin’s was in the PL. Didn’t he outscore all our strikers in a side that were relegated?
    Welbeck still has a lot to prove at Arsenal, and we’ve had to endure his injury for the best part of a year.
    £4m is nowhere near as big a gamble as the £16m paid for a striker deemed not good enough by the selling club and for me falls into the same category as Walcott.
    In the cold light of day, Walcott hasn’t delivered, and it remains to be seen whether Welbeck ever will either.

  58. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Have you ever seen Austin play live Herb? The geezer dont run.

    Hes a bit like Podolski after a Polish night out.

    Good in the box and very little back lift make him a decent player, but good enough for Arsenal?

    Besides, if we did buy him, after he gets crocked you would only stick the knife into Wenger for buying another injury prone player and demand we appoint Paul Lambert

  59. Herb's Army says:

    Ha ha, hi Terry 🙂
    I’ve since revised my opinion of Paul Lambert, but it wasn’t all his fault, Villa are a mess of a club because Randy Lerner has had them up for sale for two years, and after the spending of Martin O’Neill, plus Houllier’s £24m investment in Darren Bent, refuses to significantly invest in new players, which is why Remi Garde didn’t get anyone in January.
    Ranieri is the go-to man now 😀

  60. Brad says:

    Hi, I’m a first time poster but long time reader.

    So firstly: Congratulations on making very nice site! Thank you.

    (Although, if you could find your way to bring back the graph in the sidebar that shows results this year against last, it would be even better.)

    Anyway, the reason I’m posting now is to ask the original writers if in order to dispel the myth of the….

    ” £200m WAR CHEST!!! (GRR)”

    … they might have gone too far the other way?

    Full disclosure: I’m an absolute layman in these matters, so I’m perfectly happy to be told to sit down and be quiet… But I am interested…

    So with GoonerInExile’s story about the person who’s just been paid; I wonder if it might be just as simplitic an arguement as those made by people calling for a £200m splurge?

    To hijack the analogy, I wonder if the following might not be more appropriate:

    You’ve just been paid your monthly salary of £2000. You’re doing pretty well in your company, but you ache to have greater success…

    Out of the blue you get a call from your CEO; he wants you to join him for the evening at his private members club in the city, with a view to possibly promoting you to the upper echelons of the firm…

    You’re ambitious so of course you say yes, but once you get off the phone you remember the stories you’ve heard from colleagues about these parties; the Giant Panda rodeos, the ingestion of top quality cocaine from the bills of tame platipuses (platipii?), the comfort and indescribable pleasure afforded by a battalion of nymphomani…well you get the idea! …

    You know that none of this comes free, and that despite your misgivings (it’s all a bit unseemly) you know you’ll be judged by your willingness to join in, and you’ll be expected to pay your own way.

    Luckily, you’re a sensible chap(ess), and despite knowing that tonight could cost you a whole months salary, you are secure in the knowledge that whether you get promoted or not you have sufficient money in the bank to pay your outgoings until your next payday arrives. You are also guaranteed to see an approximate 15% uptick in salary next month regardless.

    To make matters even less fiscally frightening in your conservative mind, you make a call to the private members club in question, to see if there is any way to enjoy the pleasures on offer while deferring some of the payment…

    Happily there is… So now, rather than having worry about spending your entire £2000 monthly salary you’re told that you’ll only have to pay about 40% up front of what you spend on the night, the rest being charged to you at 20% pm over the following 2 months.

    Well that’s ok you think to yourself, that’s affordable, even if I don’t get the promotion I so desperately want.

    To strain the analogy even further (apologies). You decide that some of your belongings which cost a fortune to keep, and no longer provide you with any use or pleasure, can be forfeited in pursuit of your ambitions. So you reluctantly let them go.

    In light of this sensible housekeeping, taking a calculated risk no longer seems like much of a risk at all.

  61. kelsey says:

    GIE

    Believe it or not i have more than one brain cell and played bowls for Middlesex and then later for Surrey.So there 😉

  62. kelsey says:

    I can’t believe we would have spent 50 + million on Ozil if our kitty was so low,and it was lower when we bought him according to the accountants on here.

  63. GoonerB says:

    Great Rant GIE. Lucky it is Rant Friday. Will comment more later.

    Herb, I don’t think £16m is a big gamble for his potential, not in the modern age. And Herb……a meaningless F.A cup tie??? Really…a quarter final away at Old Trafford with a semi-final place up for grabs…did you really mean that statement.

  64. Rasp says:

    Hi Brad, and thank you for taking the time to comment … at last! 🙂

    I’m afraid I’m the lazy one who just couldn’t keep all the widgets going, chas has taken over so I’ll let him consider your suggestion.

    My personal opinion on today’s debate lies somewhere in the middle (cop out). I accept all the maths as presented by our trio of accountants but also agree with Raddy and Micky to the extent that we should be prepared to go into limited debt (i.e. to speculate) if the right player becomes available.

    And there’s the rub … the right player …. at the right price ….. who wants to play for us … and who wouldn’t take the higher bucks from one of the super rich clubs whose owners don’t need to bother about balance sheets …. simples! … NOT

  65. Big Raddy says:

    Brad. Welcome.

    For a first comment that is a cracker. I look forward to reading more.

  66. Big Raddy says:

    In light of this weeks Chinese transfer madness, it seems there is another major player on the transfer market-

    A combined €70m for Martinez and Texeira neither of whom play for top clubs is astonishing and way above PL valuations.

    What chance do we have of signing anyone of quality given AW’s careful husbandry and a massive over-valuation of players?

  67. Eddie says:

    Brad – exactly!!! You just forgot to add that you may even have a lot of fun in the process 🙂

    GiE is a terrific guy, no buts about it. But when it comes to certain matters like money, he is desperate, unbearable. He was the same when I argued with him about that doughnut Szczesny, and who was right? Eddie here.

    A little story from me – my son’s grandmother wasn’t an accountant, just an ordinary scrooge. She saved every penny and when she was half dead she was still going to the local launderette, because washing machines were too costly to run. She died filthy rich, like really really rich. And so what? What’s the fun in that? But had she invested in an Ariston, saved trips up the Muswell Hill to the launderette, she would probably live a bit longer!

  68. Herb's Army says:

    Every word GB.
    The FA Cup has been relegated to being nothing more than being a glorified League Cup, and has been usurped by the significance of fourth place in the PL (CL qualification).
    When it was only the champions of each country playing in the European Cup, the FA Cup still resonated with fans as an important trophy, but now, with the ‘modernised’ CL format, you’ve had a better season if you finish fourth than a club who finish fifth and win the FA Cup, just as we did from 2006-2013.
    It adds to your trophy count, but we haven’t really made any ground up on Liverpool or United in terms of the significant prizes.

  69. RA says:

    Brad,

    First – Go get a better job, and leave your skinflint boss who won’t foot the bill to pay for your promotion meeting! 🙂

    Secondly – You have understood the cash available cost pretty well in your down home story – but if you care to re-read my comment @ 11:26 you will see that I have already covered the ‘deferred payment’ idea.

    — “from the cash balance (£228m) you should make deductions for the £35 million debt service reserve and the net £66 million still owed on previous player purchases, which would leave “only” £128 million.”

    You see, your idea of paying a smaller amount on the cost of your night out with the boss (is that a female boss – puts a whole different slant on it?) 🙂 is exactly what Arsenal and all clubs do.

    In essence, if your boss asked you to go out to an expensive dive with her the next month – you would still be paying for the first trip out.

    Nice try but no prize. 🙂

  70. Jeremy says:

    Regarding Kroenke, while I know almost nothing about the guy it seems obvious that he is not the type of owner to bankroll the club. That’s just not what he’s going to do, so acting like his money is Arsenal’s money and therefore Arsenal could afford any player they want is just going to cause frustration and heartache so I think the sooner some people accept that the happier they will be.
    Regarding the money in the bank, I’m fine
    with it being there. If we’re talking proven top quality players like Sanchez or Ozil then 50 million buys just one of those type of players. As we can finally afford those type of players I’m fine with arsenal making sure they can afford one if one becomes available and they don’t become available often. I’m sure if that tricky, speedy, lethal forward we all want was available and wanted to come to Arsenal then we’d pay the money.
    One forward that moved during the last few days was Jackson Martinez. I’m probably not the only one who would have been excited to see him at Arsenal for this year but he went to athletico for 20 something million and scored 4 goals. Now he’s going to China. The funny thing is I’d still be a bit excited to see him at Arsenal but I realise even spending 20 or 30 million on a player guarantees nothing.

  71. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. That is tantamount to blasphemy.

    The FA Cup remains a huge trophy. Ask Spurs or any of the teams who strive to win it each season.

    It saddens me that you rubbish a massive part of English football history just because or despite our winning it the past two seasons.

    FA Cup or 4th? If you are a money man then 4th. If you love football then unquestionably the FAC.

  72. RA says:

    Excellent comment, Jeremy, and eminently sensible. 🙂

  73. Le Coq Monster says:

    Easy for me, I`ll just copy and paste my comment from yesterday and I`m with Kelsey in that I will not change my mind because if Arsenal`s CHIEF EXECUTIVE tells me something then who am I to argue ?……it`s all simple maths and no….c##t on a cat ( anagram of accountant) is going to manipulate figures to there own ends when the truth is out there…..I nicked that from the X Files….it`s coming back ! ….yippee !. anyway I`m a f##king van driver and ke;lseys loaded so between the two of us we have it all covered !. hahaha

    Here`s what Gazidis said in 2013……………(now obviously I`m just a van driver, but if my income is £20K per year and I spend just £10K per year then the next year I will have £30K and If I spend only £10K again then the income goes up again etc`……..so if Arsenal have £70M to spend per year and only spend £40M of that, then the next year they will have £100m to spend…..simple isn`t it ! )

    The Arsenal chief executive, Ivan Gazidis, has claimed the club are now able to compete to sign the best players in the world and within two years will rival Bayern Munich as one of football’s financial powerhouses.

    Manager Arsène Wenger has in excess of £70m at his disposal this summer as the club finally emerges from the spending constraints created by building the Emirates Stadium.

    Arsenal believe the high profit margin increases they will make to their balance sheet would give Wenger an additional £70m to spend every summer, not even including the dramatic increase in income provided by the Premier League’s £5bn television deal………(anyone know what next seasons TV deal will add on top of the £70M we already have each year ? )

    Now here`s what I would love to know……how much have we spent nett on transfers since this statement and I bet we haven`t spent £70M nett per season since 2013………..on the simple maths side, surely what we haven`t spent out of the £70m goes onto the next years £70M. !………………….The £230M I have alwyas quoted is just because Kelsey said it and seeing as he is f##king loaded…..Wimbledon Common house, business fortune etc`………I tend to believe him than an accountant from Norfolk and Bounds Green !. hahaha
    Seriously…..3 years of £70m !……no way we have spent half of that if you include our transfer sales, so we must have well over £100M for a striker !.

  74. Herb's Army says:

    Hi Raddy,

    I get your sentiments, the FA Cup is the oldest competition in world football and with that comes a certain gravitas, but despite the BBC’s constant ‘anything can happen…’ drivel to breathe some life into it, the FA Cup has become less glamorous and therefore less exciting. United haven’t won it for 12 years, but both they and Liverpool have won CL in that time. Would they swap that for our last two FA Cups?
    You may recall in 2000, the holders (you know who) were granted special permission from the FA not to defend the trophy because of commitments in Brazil (I can still remember Romario and Vasco de Gama destroying them!). That took a lot of gloss off the tournament for many neutral fans, as well as clubs fielding weakened sides – as indeed we do ourselves.
    We support a club whose first priority is top four, and there have been a few seasons when the club have willingly ditched the FA Cup because their eyes were on ‘bigger’ prizes.
    So do we pick and choose when it should be considered as important enough to take seriously?
    Your issue should be aimed more at the club than me.

  75. RA says:

    Rasper @ 4:42

    I think you must have skipped by the comments where I said that I was trying to focus on the point of the Post, that is to explain that the supposed transfer fund of £208m represented by the cash at bank, was nothing of the sort.

    When Raddy brought up the speculate to accumulate comment – well my words but it was what he meant, I replied @ 11:26

    —- “Whether or not Arsenal should have a different strategy along the lines mentioned by the Honourable Raddish, that you need to ‘speculate to accumulate, with certain risks inevitably involved’ is another issue, and tho there is nothing wrong with that – it is just not what the headline is addressing.”

    So you are not somewhere in the middle between me (the accountants) and Raddy, or whoever. The corporate strategy on how the club should be managed financially is a totally other Post – and no, not by me – these financial things are a waste of time – as you to would say if some plonker with zilch knowledge of your work insisted that a shubunkin was a goldfish in camouflage, and would not listen. 🙂

  76. RA says:

    Hi Cockie Fruitcake,

    Some might say that you and Kelsey are two of the bloggers I was referring to when I said the following @ 5:55;

    — “these financial things are a waste of time – as you to would say if some plonker with zilch knowledge of your work insisted that a shubunkin was a goldfish in camouflage, and would not listen”

    Of course I could not possibly comment. 😀

  77. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. Tell that to the few hundred thousand who lined the streets of Islington last May

    As to whom to have issue with …. it wasn’t the club who made your statement 🙂

  78. Big Raddy says:

    RA. I thank you for giving my uneducated but heartfelt opinion some merit.

    As far as I know a shubunkin is a goldfish.

  79. Herb's Army says:

    Raddy

    I don’t doubt a word of it, we’re a passionate lot us Arsenal fans, and when you’ve been starved of real tangible success for the period we have, there is bound to be a natural out-pouring of mass celebration.
    My statement was merely a reflection of how the club conduct themselves in regard to various competitions.
    For the record, I love the FA Cup, it was our first major trophy, but money and the all-encompassing CL have severely diminished its status, which I agree, is very sad.

  80. Le Coq Monster says:

    At the end of the day, Redders, all this money talk, all the tactics talk, all the Arsene lickers, all the Arsene haters, all the opinions, all the Kings horses, all the Kings men….couldn`t make us score a goal in our last 3 league games !………..only a £230M striker would have done that !……or Bendtner !.

  81. RA says:

    True, Cockie! 🙂

  82. Big Raddy says:

    Aaah young Nik. Now there was a talent

  83. Le Coq Monster says:

    I heard somewhere that young Nik was and still held the Danish youth 100M record or something like it !………so he was deceptively quick !…………Theo`s speed but more skillful !………misunderstood and underated……………C##t had the ability to be the King of Denmark !.

  84. RA says:

    Oddly, enough, I think that Bendy looked like a top notch talent busting to get thru to be a permanent first teamer.

    At Brum he looked the Danish doo dahs, but got involved with royalty and shagged himself into oblivion!

    Pity. 🙂

  85. kelsey says:

    RA

    some would say 😉 that everything you write is googled.Are you really an accountant ? do you actually exist ? There has been more talk about you than anyone else on here .I think you are an Arsenal supporter related to the yeti 😉

  86. Brad says:

    Hi again,

    Thank you for your warm welcome!

    It’s pretty easy to see that you have a respectful, and interesting community here, and it’s nice. So again congrats.

    Re. My original post-

    RA; It was only a bit of fun! I just didn’t think that GoonerInExile’s analogy was a particularly good one, and if I’m honest neither was yours- Both are predicated on a scenario in which there is neither past savings nor future income.

    Would Apple shut down their R&D department just in case they never sold another IPad? Of course not.

    Respectfully, it seems to me that from my “down home” perspective you’re both trying too hard to kill the idea of The Arsenal having money to improve.

    You’re both absolutely right that spending the entire bank balance would be insane, but my contention is that, given the will, we could be doing an awful lot more than we currently are.

  87. Gööner In Exile says:

    Cockie do your research:

    http://www.transferleague.co.uk/arsenal/english-football-teams/arsenal-transfers

    2013/14 – Spent £42m received £10m net £32m
    2014/15 – Spent £95.6m received £30m net £65.6m
    2015/16 – Spent £16m received £1m net £15m

    So yes we have spent all that war chest £122.6m net to be precise. Make you happier?

  88. chas mobile says:

  89. Jeremy says:

    After the heartbreak of the Birmingham final I can’t believe people can be so dismissive of the, not ONE , but TWO, fa cup wins in the last two years. Not only am I still celebrating the final win against Villa, but I am also secretly still celebrating the win against Hull. Some people might say the Hull win should be left in the past but I’m still carrying it around because it’s the first part of the possible three in a row that we’re still in the middle of!
    I’m sad genuinely that you don’t think Arsenal are doing anything worth celebrating. How about becoming the most successful club in fa cup history.

  90. kelsey says:

    GIe

    why are you so rude to people on here including me or maybe you don’t realise it.

  91. Gööner In Exile says:

    Good to see some new posters, Brad I like you analogy, especially the drugs part 🙂

    My comment was borne out of frustration of continually hearing about the £200m in the bank. That’s all, there is undoubtedly money available, but I am in the satisfied that the club will spend it should the improvements be available, as Cockie says if we didn’t spend the £70m this year then we have it plus our profits for the following season.

    My only issue with the speculate to accumulate theory is that for any Chief Exec the odds are too long for any potential upside to come from a level of borrowing over and above what the club is comfortable is. We have to leave enough a kitty to buy the odd player, especially as we appear to no longer be a selling club, and if it hadn’t escaped anyone’s attention are doing our best to tie players downto contracts to keep them at the club and avoid vultures hovering to obtain our assets at knock down prices.

    Boil it down and our £300+ million is made up of two types of assets and one liability, the assets are the stadium and players, the liability the remaining mortgage. The stadium is pretty much worthless as we are not going to selling it anytime soon, so we are left with the players, who go down in value every year on the books until they sign a new contract. If we are never going to sell those players at peak anymore that’s another large chunk of our reserve that is of little real monetary value. So we are left with our liquid assets and our profits to help find future purchases, and that’s where spending £10-£30m on squad players is unnecessary when we can add a few proper stars in isolation to decorate what is already a good team.

    My main point is that as much as fans don’t want to admit it we have fornthe majority of our existence operated in a way that doesn’t require the major shareholders to stump up their own cash. And the only reason Kroenke own our club is the sad passing of Fiszman forcing the hand of the rest of the board.

  92. Gööner In Exile says:

    Kelsey I don’t suffer fools gladly and so when someone spouts “facts” that are clearly incorrect I may be a bit short in my reply. You may call it rude I call it direct. What’s that phrase again “I say it as I see it”, can’t help that can we?

  93. Big Raddy says:

    GIE. You make a good point. Fizman and Dein were proper Gooners. Gazidis, Kroenke etc know doodlysquat about AFC,

    It is the difference between a fan and a businessman

  94. chas says:

    Danny played 60 minutes for the u21s in their 4-1 win this afternoon.

  95. chas says:

  96. Le Coq Monster says:

    So we have £97.4M to spend !……….3years of £70m = £210M – £112.6M = £97.4M
    Add next summers £70M = £167M…..and who knows how much extra from the new TV deal !.
    Fair enough Exile, not quite the £230M that the doomer 😀 Kelsey promised me, but enough for a Super Quality striker !
    I know I wind you up, but I do appreciate the effort you go to to explain stuff !. 😀

  97. kelsey says:

    Thats the trouble Raddy,football is now a bigger business than was ever envisaged even twenty years ago and the fan on the board is no longer there and the club and attending fans drift further and further apart.

  98. Jeremy says:

    Just wanted to add that when I said I think it’s sad the way some people don’t enjoy the fa cup wins I don’t mean that to be a dig at anyones support on here.

  99. Herb's Army says:

    Hi Jeremy, perhaps you could address me by name, so that I know to reply.
    Birmingham 2011 was heart-breaking for you? Really? In May, 2006,
    Paris, as soon as I saw Jens Lehmann being sent off against Barca, I wanted to cry. That was heart-breaking.
    If you know anything about Arsenal, you’ll know that we’re serial offenders when it comes to losing to under-dogs in Cup finals at Wembley.
    In the League Cup, you’ve got Swindon in 1969, Luton in 1988,and the latest being Birmingham. In the FA Cup, Cardiff, 1927, Ipswich, 1978, and second division West Ham in 1980.
    Of the Cup finals we have lost, the only heart-breaking ones for me, was Leeds in the FA Cup, 1972 (that had me in floods of tears, but I was only a child), and the CL against Barcelona.
    I’m not criticising the FA Cup, but in the modern world, to supporters of clubs who dream of CL success, like it or not, the FA Cup is a secondary competition. Even clubs from lower leagues rest players in the early rounds.
    The last time every club played their strongest XI in every round of the FA Cup was the last time it is was a real competition.

  100. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Evening all

    Bloody fantastic to see Danny back. I have seriously high hopes for the fella. Pace, power, work ethic and shoots (and sometimes they go in)

  101. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Jeremy und Herb

    The thing about the FAC is childhood memories. The whole day of telly, the team hotel, the nasty suits, the dreadful cup final records, the trains and coaches of fans. Just loved the whole thing, and it simply will not go away

    I know the Champions League and money have had an impact, but nothing can remove the magic of that competition. Superstars from the top flight on muddy pitches, the draw for the next round. Fabulous. Love it.

  102. Herb's Army says:

    I’m with you on that, Micky, it took up the whole day and it was magical, but the further forward we go the more that becomes a distant memory. I think I’m too old 🙂

  103. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb

    The one thing that I believe has had the biggest negative impact, was when they started playing the semis there (and, of course, lower div. play offs) as that eroded the mystique of Wembley as a kind of Holy Grail venue

  104. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb
    A child in ’72, you say. Not that old then are you, so grow up 🙂

  105. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Right, must off. Nite all.

  106. Sid says:

    Great debate today l just wondered, what with all the accountants knocking about how the word (gulp) “TAX” comes into this.
    For instance if we had £200k in the bank could we have had £280k worth of players as they would be a tax loss instead of paying 40% corperation tax (I am no expert in the percentages)
    Another problem is some peeps don’t understand the difference between turnover and profit, how does it go? turnover for vanity profit for sanity.

  107. Le Coq Monster says:

    The League and FA Cup are the big for me and always will be, The CL is a cash cow ( even though it is probably……verification needed here…….dwarfed by the EPL TV money now ) and something we are very unlikely to win unless we have a Mansour type owner !………the league will probably be out of our reach for sometime as well unless for same reasons as trying to win CL….big money owner !…….so that`s the beauty of the FA Cup !….any one can win it, it just so happens that we are the most successfull team ever in it !…….nice !

  108. Herb's Army says:

    Spot on, Micky, the big day at Wembley was always the carrot. The semi-final that I remember fondly was the marathon with Liverpool in 1980 when we beat them at the fourth attempt.
    Our own ground, Highbury hosted a few FA Cup semi-finals too.
    But yeah, people in high-profile positions within football always feel the need to tweak and interfere with things that aren’t broken. Perhaps it’s the only way they can justify their existence.

  109. Herb's Army says:

    Ha ha, cheers Micky 🙂

  110. Gööner In Exile says:

    The thing that has done for the FA Cup is the common place of televised football week in week out 3/4 games a week.

    When most of us were growing up it was one of the few televised games that you cousin watch live, as suc the BBC would give it maximum effort and a whole day was dedicated to Football on the BBC starting from the team breakfasts, cameras and interviews conducted on the coach with players on their way to Wembley, what chance of that now?

    Those were the days my friend.

    As also the only ones who could tell you how well or not we played on a Saturday were those who were in the ground, and you only heard that if you got to talk to them in the pub, now we are overloaded with live action and pundits for every game, and therein lies my issue with today’s football. Overexposure……take me back to the only thing I knew about my club was the fixture list the team the manager and where I stood in the ground.

  111. Danish Gooner says:

    Fact is,we are sitting on a transfer kitty of 200 mil and rising anyone saying something different knows fuck all !!!!!!!!!

  112. Jeremy says:

    Apologies Herb. I’ve followed Arsenalarsenal for a few years and haven’t really commented as commenting on sites isn’t something I usually do so I wasn’t brave enough to address you personally. You are obviously correct.
    The Barcelona Final was so depressing. I know Lehman is a big favourite among fans but that guy always made me nervous. As good as he was he was always capable of doing something crazy…hence the name I guess. Obviously a great keeper but I feel way more comfortable with Cech these days.
    I think it’s easier to live with that defeat in a way as Arsenal were winning Leagues and Doubles at the time so when think of that final it’s hard not to start thinking about how great the team was.
    The Birmingham Final was for me the nadir of all the horrible stuff that went with being an Arsenal fan at the time. Years of ‘arsenal don’t like it up ’em’. Years of teams being given carte blanche to kick Arsenal all over the pitch. The 3 broken legs. The campaign against Eduardo. I just wanted to read one article where the word Arsenal wasn’t automatically followed by ‘x years without a trophy’. I stopped reading the red tops because reading match reports even when we won involved at least a few paragraphs of putting the boot in. The Birmingham Final felt to me what might be the last chance for ages to finally shut down that ‘x years without a trophy’ thing so when we lost I feared it could be years until Arsenal were just refered to as Arsenal again. So when I think of that final I think of all that horrible stuff that felt so relentless.
    As you say, we may not have a great record against lesser teams in finals so surely it’s a positive that our last two finals have been against lesser teams and we’ve won then both.
    I agree that the fa cup isn’t as important as the League or the Champions League but if I’m only going to enjoy following Arsenal when we win either of those then I’m not going to enjoy following Arsenal at all. Say Arsenal win 2 Leagues and 1 Champions League in the next 10 years. That would obviously be great right, but it also means I’d spend 7 years being mad or upset at Arsenal and I’d probably still be mad and angry for most of those winning seasons too so it’s just not worth it.
    Hope some of that makes sense herb.

  113. Jeremy says:

    Mickeydidit I started following Arsenal in 89 and my earliest memories of Arsenal in the fa cup are Gazza’s free kick and the match against Wrexham. I don’t like to think about either of those.

  114. Herb's Army says:

    Thanks for the reply, Jeremy.
    Big Tone settled the score at Wembley in 1993. They might have won the Cup in ’91, but we were Champions that year, just to remind them of their place.
    I understand what you’re saying, there were lots of nasty stuff going on, particularly among fans who were at each others throats, bitterly divided by the Arsene Wenger conumdrum, and like today’s topic, whether or not Arsenal had huge cash reserves hiding in Swiss bank accounts, or were genuinely skint.
    Something much worse happened in 2011 than losing to Birmingham at Wembley. We paid £10m for Mikel Arteta!!! (Don’t take it to heart if you’re a fan, for me it represented the modern Arsenal ethos, cautious and safe rather than dynamic and exciting).
    Gooner In Exile’s 9.06/21.06 nails it perfectly, football is over-exposed, there’s far too much information and mis-information passed off as fact, but on the flip-side, much less communication or connection between the club and their fan-base, as Kelsey alluded to earlier.
    Are we a satisfied fan-base? Those that aim their expectations lowest are the happiest, but that only makes sense if you ignore our global standing.

  115. I agree with Herb that the FA Cup has been competitively devalued, but for those of us who get teary eyed at an old man walking down a cobbled street to Hovis music it means a lot

    I grew up in age were the Cup final was the game of the season and been called a fairy meant you had mystical powers.

    My love affair started with the first cup final I can really remember, 1975 Fulham West Ham. I remember thinking then, aged nine, these two clubs haven’t got the financial capacity to maintain success and will in future struggle to receive attractive and lucrative sponsorship. This is how dreams are born

    Imagine my excitement a year later. Sitting round my “Auntie Beryl’s” house, dad had to go round there to discuss the miners strike, I saw Liam Brady on the box say “I want to win the cup with Arsenal” At that moment the chewing of my wine gums turned to slow motion as I fantasised about a day out at Wembley , and an agreement between the Union and Government

    A couple of years passed and though the strike had ended, dad irritatingly insisted that every Saturday morning he still had to discuss the industrial dispute with Beryl, but the consolation was going to Arsenal after.

    It was during this time I marvelled at Liam. His skill was sublime, and I recalled his words about the cup. I remember thinking, I bet he wouldn’t want industrial relations with Beryl

    Imagine my excitement when we got to the semi. It was only Orient? They haven’t got the financial turnover or affluent ownership to defeat us. The only concern was there were rumours of a general strike.

    We beat them and the stage was set. It was Ipswich in the final, a bunch of farmers with a very average profit & loss account.

    The day was incredible. The sun beat down at Wembley and our glorious lads and financially constrained opponents entered the fray

    Things didn’t go as planned. Firstly Beryl had come with us, apparently her and dad had to discuss the real danger of the return of the three day week, and the Assetless farmers were all over us.

    Were was Liam? He was playing like he just had a nasty run in with Arther Scargill.

    I cried so much that night. We lost the cup and capitalism was under threat.

    Roll on a year later and we all know what happened. Liam fulfilled his destiny, capitalism was reborn, and dad stopped going round Beryl’s when her husband came out of prison. Apparently he was into the Japanese model against collective bargaining, turning Beryl’s head.

    FA Cup? Magic

  116. Evening everyone and a warm welcome to all the new bloggers that have added to the excellent debates this week.

    Rasp has been a hero in writing posts and managing the blog but it would also be great if others felt they could contribute with a few words or a suggestion for a poll. Send your ideas through to arsenalnuts@live.co.uk

    Nice to see you Herb, hope you’re keeping well.

  117. Herb's Army says:

    Hi Peaches, all the better for hearing from you.

  118. Gööner In Exile says:

    “I agree that the fa cup isn’t as important as the League or the Champions League but if I’m only going to enjoy following Arsenal when we win either of those then I’m not going to enjoy following Arsenal at all. Say Arsenal win 2 Leagues and 1 Champions League in the next 10 years. That would obviously be great right, but it also means I’d spend 7 years being mad or upset at Arsenal and I’d probably still be mad and angry for most of those winning seasons too so it’s just not worth it.”

    Brilliant Jeremy.

    Herb I’d be interested to know how you feel there was a better connection between “club and fans” back in days of yore. I’d say there was more connection between fans and players, mainly because there was a chance you’d see them in a pub or club sitting alongside you, drinking alongside you, sure they would earn good money, but not like today where a squad player can earn more than chief execs of multinational companies. That for me is where the connection has gone, not between club and fan because for me that connection and interaction has never really been there.

    During the 80’s the clubs generally treated fans like crap, just try and remember what the toilets were like on the North Bank. It didn’t really bother any of us, we just put up with it because toilet facilities were the last thing on our minds, we were going to go and have a good time win lose or draw. I probably couldn’t describe the game I’d just been to in detail, I’d been too busy jumping around singing and going f’ing mental as the song used to go.

  119. fatgingergooner says:

    Rasp demanded I send in a post Peaches so it’s done! I wouldn’t want to upset him 😄

  120. Jeremy says:

    Hi herb.
    I agree it’s difficult to know what to think when there are so many conflicting opinions. Some people believe Arsene is an amazing manager who at the hight of his popularity chose to do what was best for Arsenal even though doing so would effectively cripple him as a manager and tarnish his legacy, and some people believe that he would knowingly cripple Arsenal so that he can prove how great he is by winning the league spending the least amount of money possible. I just don’t see how they can both be right.
    You mention people having low expectations and if you are suggesting I am a pessimist you are probable not incorrect. My approach to Arsenal in the League is that financially speaking Arsenal cannot compete on an equal footing with Man United or Chelsea or Man City. They can pay bigger transfers and they can say bigger wages. That just seems obvious to me. Arsenal also seem to be in a stronger financial position to the rest of the league so Arsenal should really be finishing about 4th place all things being equal. I know that drives people nuts but resources wise that is just the way it is. Maybe in the past we were a bigger club and maybe in the future we’ll be a bigger club but that is the present situation as far as I can tell.
    Going by that, based on resources, I feel Arsenal finishing lower that fourth is underperforming, Arsenal finishing higher than fourth is overperforming and Arsenal finishing 4th is about par. In my opinion Arsenal are in a weird position of being just enough behind Man United and Chelsea and Man City that beating all three on a consistent basis is almost impossible, while on the other hand Arsenal are far enough ahead of the rest of the league that finishing above the likes of Liverpool and Spurs is considered the absolute minimum.
    It’s interesting that Arsenal are expected to consistently outperform the likes of Liverpool and Spurs because of Arsenals financial advantage, and rightly so, but Arsenal are also expected to consistently outperform three teams who each possess an undeniable financial advantage. How is that fair? Chelsea, the current champions, could legitimately finish 7th or 8th this year and still be on the receiving end of less abuse than Arsenal will receive if they finish 4th and qualify for the Champions League. How is that fair?. As far as I know Arsenal are the only team in Europe where qualifying for the Champions League is used as a stick to beat the team with. How is that fair?
    Herb, you mention the fanbase being at each others throats during the austerity years and one of the complaints seemed to be that pretty football was pointless if Arsenal didn’t win anything. I have sympathy for that line of thought but we’ve won 2 trophies in two years and people are just as angry now if not more so.
    Of coarse Arsenal should strive to be better, and I but I do think the past few years have shown considerable and undeniable improvement and growth.

  121. Gööner In Exile says:

    Forgot to answer Sid earlier on the tax question. The answer about tax is not easy but let’s say this, in my understanding we wouldn’t get all tax relief in year 1 as any player purchase does not effect our profits but is instead capitalised as an intangible asset and then written off to the P&L over the assets useful life (their contract length).

    The saying goes as follows:

    Turnover vanity, profit sanity, cash reality.

  122. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Testing testing
    Motning Motning
    Woof Woof

  123. MickyDidIt89 says:

    What I particularly like about yesterdays discussions is that I doubt even one person has changed their position one inch

    🙂

  124. chas says:

  125. chas says:

    Micky
    Are you saying yesterday’s discussions were pointless? 🙂

  126. chas says:

    I really like Jeremy’s comments as they describe my own feelings perfectly with grace and elegance (as opposed to my own sarcasm and bitterness).

    Brad
    I’m hoping I’ve resurrected the correct widget of Rasp’s?
    When you said “graph” it confused me a little.
    Let me know if there are any mistakes.

  127. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Oi Chas. No I’m not. Well, not exactly 🙂

    People get together. Great new bloggers arrive. All good.

    Do I detect anyone changing their position? No.

    Bloody love that pic tho

  128. kelsey says:

    Why doesn’t Kroenke put his own money into the club ? Surely that’s a reasonable question.

    You can discuss this all day but read certain paragraphs in my quote early yesterday and if we really wanted to we could buy anyone bar Messi.

    Now it’s believed within 12 months to 2 years we will see the first 100 million pound player move to China, and it wont be Sanogo or Chamakh.

  129. MickyDidIt89 says:

    When anyone says “graph” you simply get over excited thinking maybe, just maybe, what they really mean is Heat Maps and shit like that

  130. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Nice pic Crystals
    If you like that sort of thing
    My view? Labradors are better 🙂

  131. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Crystals
    I’d rather that than Mr Wong bwing his dirty money here and buy Totnum 😦

  132. chas says:

  133. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All,

    Like chas I found Jeremy’s comments relflected my own opinion. A great days blogging on a subject wgich bores me rigid!

    My fave was Terry’s which included this line which made me spill my coffee

    “Imagine my excitement a year later. Sitting round my “Auntie Beryl’s” house, dad had to go round there to discuss the miners strike!

    That Terry is a comic genius.

  134. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Nice colour cat
    Want one of them too

  135. chas says:

  136. chas says:

  137. MickyDidIt89 says:

    BarkBox ROLF

    Yes, morning to you too Erik 🙂

  138. Big Raddy says:

    Boxador = Mongrel

  139. chas says:

    How about if both parents are boxadors?

  140. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Tell you what Erik, I detect a certain tension in the air of the Didit household, and I think it has something to do with the word “retriever” associated with Labradors

    ie Mrs D’s visions of the hound hurtling around the house with one of her handbags clamped between it’s gnashers. Tense is what the atmosphere is.

  141. Eddie says:

    Saturday!!! I cannot wait – Dotty is arriving today 🙂

    There will be so many fun stories to read each morning now 🙂

  142. Eddie says:

    best comment from yesterday’s post – Kelsey’s photo

    I have certainly not changed my view an iota – what’s the point of being the 7th richest football club in the world if you cannot afford a striker when one is desperately needed??!! Financial bollix if you ask me

  143. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Eddie

    No-one ever said we couldn’t afford a striker

    Its all down to Arsene, who simply couldn’t be bothered

  144. Eddie says:

    ha ha ha micky – you didn’t read any of the long comments, did you? Or the post for that matter 🙂 Of course some were suggesting that there isn’t enough money for a night out in a brothel, let alone a striker

  145. chas says:

    To be specific…….not enough money to enjoy “Giant Panda rodeos, the ingestion of top quality cocaine from the bills of tame platipuses (platipii?), the comfort and indescribable pleasure afforded by a battalion of nymphomani”

  146. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Eddie

    Those sorts are neither business men or football purists.
    Chuck in some Arsene blinkers and what did you expect

    All well meaning and that, but….

  147. Eddie says:

    dog de Bordeaux, gorgeous!! Giant slobbery babies

  148. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Chas

    Those were Brad comment I think. Superb.

    I like them. Detect something of a purist in the fella. He talked about re-adjusting the furniture and paying deposits and stuff ie flog Theo, pay a 40% down payment on Aubebayang is how I read it 🙂

  149. chas says:

    ‘Football purists’ made me laugh.
    The sheer misguided conceit of it. 🙂

  150. Big Raddy says:

    Boxador + Boxador= Mongrel.

    Obviously …. you div 😀

  151. MickyDidIt89 says:

    The sheer misguided conceit of it

    ha ha ha ha ha so so true 🙂 🙂

  152. chas says:

    I only saw this because Victoria Smith from the all-girl Ramones tribute band, The Ramonas, is playing bass.

  153. Big Raddy says:

    Retreivers retrieve. Wife’s handbag in danger, as are shoes, wallets, anything which can be thrown and anything which can be carried by jaw.

    Great fun. I am deeply envious, though my experience from having housed a few orphan mutts is there is sometimes a messy and malodourous beginning

  154. chas says:

    “Increasing numbers of Labradoodles (poodle/Labrador crosses) Cockapoos (cocker spaniel/ poodle crosses) and Jugs (Jack Russell/pug crosses) indicate that perhaps these three types of dog might well be some of the first currently unrecognised breeds to attain official Kennel Club breed status recognition in the future.”

    you div 🙂

  155. Eddie says:

    Raddy 🙂 Dogs are filthy, messy, bad mannered and a nuisance at times. I cannot imagine life without them

    Just one bit of advice DidIt – don’t let Dotty on a settee; it is a constant struggle to be able to sit in front of the telly. I have to fight them for the best spot every morning

  156. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Right. Off to get you know who.

  157. chas says:

    Older bro says that labs have a ‘soft mouth’ to retrieve birds etc without damaging, so it’s recommended you don’t play tug of war games.

    No idea if it’s true.
    Viking div might know? 🙂

  158. Big Raddy says:

    chas. Where did you find that quote? The Labradoodle, Cockapoos and Jugs Gazette?

  159. chas says:

    The Jugs Gazette I receive weekly.

  160. Big Raddy says:

    Eddie. Two essential rules.

    No animals on furniture and no animals in bedrooms.

    Not easy to maintain but best for all concerned

    chas. The VD agrees.

  161. Eddie says:

    no, Raddy, not easy to maintain 🙂

  162. Big Raddy says:

    Eddie. It worked with my bigger dogs when I lived in UK but the smaller ones are naughtier!

  163. chas says:

  164. Rasp says:

    Morning all,

    I thought yesterday was an excellent day’s blogging and saw AA return to its roots. The most rewarding aspect was the appearance of quality bloggers who have been following the site and were finally drawn to join us in comments …. and all this in response to a post about finance …. yawn 🙂

    chas excellent work on the fixture comparison widget – I know how much work that entailed, I hope Brad has noticed!

  165. Morning all

    Has anyone got anything we can headline with today?

  166. Rasp says:

    Micky, you may have to curtail the viola playing when the pooch arrives …. some dogs do this …..

  167. Rasp says:

    Morning peaches, I thought FGG had sent in a post?

  168. chas says:

    FGG’s comment was 11.29pm last night

  169. RA says:

    Morning Chas,

    Your big bro’ is correct – labs are known to have ‘soft’ mouths, which that means they are capable of picking things up, or playing with owners without hurting or bruising them.

    They can still play ‘tug-of-war’ – and win! 🙂

  170. Eddie says:

    oi, Patek Philippe – are you going today? i guess is too far. pretendies?

  171. chas says:

    We’re playing tomorrow, if you are addressing me.
    And no, sold out to 60+ credits because of such a tiny allocation.

  172. chas says:

    This came on my earphones earlier and I thought of Terry.
    It’s a weird and frightening world. 🙂

  173. chas says:

    Morning, RA.
    I’m sure Micky is taking note.
    Not.

  174. I’ve found it, I’m on it …………………..

  175. Eddie says:

    poo, it is tomorrow. I was wondering when Raddy is going to start writing a PM

  176. chas says:

    Man City v Leicester at 12.45 should provide some diversion on a wet Saturday.

  177. Rasp says:

    …. New post …..

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