Thug Tactics

After yesterdays game, and also from our last game against Stoke, it’s got me thinking about the dynamics of certain types of tactics. Intimidation and violent play now seem to be a part of the English game. We all talk about the English game being a physical one, but there is physical and there is violent. There is a distinction. Arnautovics push on Debuchy yesterday was violent, Charlie Adams strangle hold on Sanchez in our last meeting with Stoke was violent. Crouch uses his elbow as an offensive weapon against players when jumping for a ball. This is not physical play, but acts of violence.

This is how the BBC described the push against Debushy:

“The Frenchman, 29, landed heavily after colliding with Stoke’s Marko Arnautovic and was replaced by Hector Bellerin in the 13th minute at Emirates Stadium.”

After colliding, ffs, are they blind? The referees have to take some blame as well, they clearly failed to act on a couple of violent fouls yesterday and in our previous game against Stoke. So who is to blame? Does the manager instil a Thug mentality into his players during training and the pre match team talk? Or is it already a part of the players mentality? There are players who have that type of DNA, Joey Barton springs to mind, Shawcross as well. I can imagine managers like Mark Hughes capitalising on the aggressive nature of some players, telling them to target certain players, but do they actually incite violent play in their team? This is my question?

written by Northbank 1969


171 Responses to Thug Tactics

  1. Big Raddy says:

    Steve Palmer

    “Morning NB, and all.
    Yes Managers, do give the ok no doubt about that, Players like Sanchez need stopping and a manager would be aware of the dangers. Rotational fouling was brought in by Managers as a tactic and it works extremely well. At times a player has no option if he is the last man and Managers accept that consequence. Certain players have a mean streak i often think that they are lacking the talent to handle situations fairly. Players like Crouch do not need to jump with flailing elbows six feet seven tall should be enough to win most balls in the air, but while referee’s allow this practise Crouch will always do it .

    Many players like the tag of hard man they believe it makes other players pull out of challenges and in the case of some Arsenal players it works well for them.

    All down to the man in the middle, if he has an agenda then brutish play will continue. Arsenal play a quick passing game and it does seem to stop some thuggish players as they look stupid when the ball has long gone. Wengers tactics to combat this is tippy tappy play keep the ball on the move and run their legs off”

  2. Big Raddy says:

  3. Big Raddy says:

    If enough people complain about an act of cowardice like the above tweet perhaps something will be done.

    Surely the linesman can see this?

    As it is players must rely upon strong refereeing to protect them – unfortunately they fall well short of their job description.

  4. Steve

    I suppose if a manager is responsible for tactics, for winning or losing, then the behaviour of their players on the pitch is also the managers responsibility. It’s up to the FA to clamp down on it and I would like to see retrospective action taken by using video evidence. Like the video Raddy has just posted. Just watching that, and the Charlie Adam foul on Sanchez in the previous game, makes me so fucking furious… something has to be done before a player really does get seriously hurt.

  5. stokierich says:

    Guys this is just completely one sided.

    I can see why there are concerns about Arnies shove, that was out of order, and should have been punished.

    Crouchie though? Does he have to jump differently to every other footballer because he happens to be taller? There was no malice in it, he just jumped for the ball.

    Shawcross did very little wrong all game and you’ve decided to bring him into this why?

    No mention of Giroud pushing Shawcross in the face which if the ref had seen he’d have likely been sent off for. Again. But let’s forget that you are the team with players just returning from bans for HEADBUTTING an opposition player, then deciding to shove his hand in another players face on his first match back. THAT’s violent conduct, not Crouch jumping for a ball with his arms in a completely reasonable position.

    You played really well on Saturday and we couldn’t get near you, several of our players just didn’t turn up and Sanchez in particular (although not just him) had a great game.

    I’m more than willing to give credit where credit is due for the win and apologise for the shove by Arnie, but I don’t see where the accusations of “thug tactics” come from at all.

    There were very few heavy tackles in the game and you guys gave us a real lesson in football, working triangles around our players all game and we just couldn’t get the ball.

    This might be an interesting read if you could find an unbiased opinion amongst Arsenal fan.

    Please at least TRY

  6. Stoklerich

    Try to make excuses for this one then, Charlie Adam against Sanchez?, you can’t defend your team for barbarics like this. Yes, Giroud tried a head butt, but he apologised. The thing is, a lot of players can be accused of doing something stupid, but Stoke have taken the whole thing of violent play to another level.

  7. And yes, I do accuse Crouch for the use of his elbow, he does it all the time, he knows exactly what he is doing and he knows it will cause damage.

  8. And Giroud had responded to Shawcross man handling him, just goes to show, like your players, you don’t like it when done to you.

  9. arnie says:

    Brilliant stuff, NorthBank. πŸ™‚

    Unfortunately i do not think this problem is specific to Stoke City, even if they may claim to be one of the best exponents of this form of anti-football. This is endemic to English foot-by (a strange combination of football and rugby), and continues unabated through the implicit support of the FA, the officials and the English public.

    Shame shame shame. 😦

  10. RA says:


    It cannot be unexpected that a blog devoted to Arsenal would contain comments that are biased in favour of the team.

    Disgruntlement with the Stoke teams transcends yesterday’s game, and goes back years where a succession of Stoke managers’ have decided that Arsenal are too highly skilled to beat playing football but, as they are not the strongest physically, the way to beat them is to ‘put it up ’em’ and stop them playing.

    This is admittedly not a unique conclusion arrive at by Stoke as many other “Orc teams’, as we call them, have the same view and attempt the same tactics – and sometimes it pays off for them.

    Crouch is often named for his splendidly pointy elbows, and Arsenal are not the only club who receive the treatment from a sub-standard player who has little else to offer.

    The injury perpetrated on Rambo by that moron Shawcross, which almost resulted in the loss of a limb, is never going to endear him to us, and altho’ there was a bit of argy bargy with Giro, it was the result of the Arsenal CF not being prepared to to take sh*t from him.

    In addition, Arsenal fans have an abiding and intense dislike of Ferguson’s marionette, Hughes, who has been only capable of coaching teams in strong-arm tactics against us at whichever club he has been, but amazingly despite that, Stoke against other clubs are playing a more expansive game of football now, with the addition of players like Bojan and Nzonzi.

    If it stops the ugly anti-football we have had to face from his teams over the years, I am happy to give him some credit for that.

    That said, it was only the fact that we put the game to bed at 3:0 that you Stokies did not allow the game to spill over into the usual violent thuggery we are used to receiving from higher’ teams.

    Now that is balanced.

  11. stokierich, take a look at the attempted tackle on Alexis just before he put the ball in the net for his first goal. The Stoke defender has launched himself at Alexis with one leg a foot or so off the ground with studs showing. If that tackle had landed it would have broken Alexis’ leg. Just as that lovely chap Ryan Shawcross shattered Ramsey’s.

    Stoke City are a famous club with a rich history, it’s just a shame and shaming that they have come to play anti-football under their last few managers.

  12. TwentyTwelve says:

    BBC MOTD2 11.01.2015 commentator:

    [On Arnautovics pushing Debuchy] “Debuchy will feel that little shove was unneccesary from the Austrian. To be honest, Arnautovics didn’t do a lot wrong. [Video showing Arnautovics pushing Debuchy in the back] They ran into one another.”

    [On Crouch elbowing Monreal] “Monreal took an arm from Crouch… Crouch said straight away to stop the game, ref, and he’s apologizing…. See there, Monreal was raising his arm as well. That is accidental.”

    [Summarising the two incidents] “A shoulder put out, and an eye that needs gluing. All part of an Arsenal vs Stoke City fixture!”

  13. RA says:

    higher = Hughes’

  14. Rafi Ma says:

    You call Mark Hughes a manager? No. like his partner in crime Tony Pulis, Hughes is just a thug in charge of other hoofball football thugs.

  15. stevepalmer1 says:

    What i found infuriating about the Debuchey incident, was how the referee just stood motionless when he saw how the player landed in the hoarding, He never flinched and never showed any emotion, Only when another player signalled to the bench with a worried look did the referee realise that time would have to be added for a stoppage.

    The ball did look as if it was out of play when the shove in the back happened, but still the intent was there and the Stoke player seemed to not care how our player was.

    An official who is appointed in charge of any match, should also follow the rules of health and safety.. Debuchey went down extremely heavily, and the offending player was never spoken to.

    Now because i am an Arsenal supporter i naturally feel that we are being unfairly handled, and after listening to commentators saying a coming together was the result of Debuchey being stretchered off, and after the game reports suggesting the same i clearly feel that the players safety is being compromised.

    The FA instil referee’s, injuries to Arsenal players seem to be acceptable with minimum protection, surely the FA must look at what is happening and act accordingly.Or is it time for a board to sit and call the penalties.

    The way i see it, Northbank feels the incidents require explanation, and so do i , surely many more feel the same.

  16. MJ says:

    northbank1969. Shawcross man handling Giroud. Utter b****cks. What match were you watching. Both were grappling, then Giroud puts his hand in Shawcross’s face. If that had been an Arse player they’d have rolled round 5 times and claimed they’d been shot. just admit, you lot dish it out as much as any other club. you lot just whinge more

  17. stokierich says:

    northbank, whilst I appreciate that tackle was a joke as well, and Charlie Adam is in my opinion an absolute nob, he’s got away with so much and yes, he is a thug, but it’s the player, not the club.

    Generally most Stoke fans I know realise he’s a liability and at times a disgrace.

    However, that tackle is not from this match, my concern is you’re bringing Shawcross into this article for a tackle he made years ago, it’s easy to point at Stoke “thuggery” but that’s very rarely how we play anymore.

    Perhaps we’ll have to agree to disagree about Crouch’s jump, I honestly think he’s jumping in the same manner as anyone else, it’s just his arms are higher as he’s taller.

    And regards man-handling in the box, yea Giroud didn’t like it, neither did Crouch like Mertesacker man-handling him but if he turned around and hit him I think your response would be rather different to “he was just responding to man-handling”

    Surely you can see some amount of bias evident there? Or would you have been ok if Crouch had done what Giroud did?

  18. stokierich says:

    Regards the N’zonzi tackle Norfolk, yea that was pretty poor too mate, but I can point to a few Arsenal ones that were launched into.

    His studs weren’t up or anything but yea I didn’t feel he was in control, and he launched himself into it. He was annoyed at his previous heavy touch I think.

    Tackles like that happen though mate, it’s not just Stoke, and the Arsenal aren’t immune to it.

  19. arnie says:

    Shitecross? Sorry, once a thug, always a thug. No (Shawshak) Redemption here. Sorry. πŸ™‚

  20. arnie says:

    this is shameful anti-football, Stokie, a laughing stock of the footie loving world. Just open your eyes and you would see.

    shame shame shame. 😦

  21. stokierich, “His studs weren’t up or anything” in that case he must have studs on his a**s as that was the only bit of him still in contract with the ground.

  22. Sorry Arnie
    I have to disagree……… thugs can change, I’m the proof πŸ™‚

  23. TwentyTwelve says:

    stokierich, you sound like a reasonable fan. You said, “but that’s very rarely how we play anymore.” Would you acknowledge that these “rare” occasions more often occur when Stoke play Arsenal? The BBC commentator knows this, when he said, “All part of an Arsenal vs Stoke City fixture”

    As RA pointed out, Stoke and others have decided that rough play against Arsenal works. Even if Arsenal win these matches, the rough tactics will not stop until something else changes.

  24. Big Raddy says:

    Stokie. Welcome to AA.

    As RA says, expect bias on an AFC website!

    Whenever Arsenal play at Britannia the decibel and hate levels rise to the stratosphere? It isn’t just us :-).

    Your fans hate us and that informs your players performance. Crouch doesn’t elbow other CB’s but check out his battering of Mertesacker and Chambers in the 3-2.

    You say that the problem is not endemic in the club – I and almost all Gooners disagree.

    BTW well played for fighting your corner in such a polite manner. Come back when we next play.

  25. arnie says:

    NorthBank. You are THE exception. Exceptions prove the rule. πŸ™‚

  26. Srokierich

    When a player puts on the shirt and the badge, he is part of the club, he is their representative on the pitch. A manager has to take responsibility for putting that player in the team. If the player is a thug then that reflects on the club.


    There is dishing it out and there is dishing it out violently, it looked to me yesterday that our boys were not prepared to take the stick you lot dished out in our meeting in Mordor in December. Good for us, if that’s biaised then so be it πŸ™‚

  27. TwentyTwelve says:

    MJ, I agree Shawcross showed honesty and restraint there. He could have rolled around and perhaps gotten Giroud sent off, as the QPR player did. Instead, he just took the shove as part of the scuffle. That was borderline at best for Giroud.

  28. stokierich says:

    I think there is an element of that sometimes TwentyTwelve yea, within the rules of the game though, but we do seem to get close quicker etc. and I think the management feel that Arsenal will bottle it if it comes to it.

    You showed how to beat that approach on Sunday though.

    I don’t think the anti arsenal vs anti stoke atmosphere will change though to be honest, I love watching Arsenal play when they’re at their best but Arsenal fans will not let the Shawcross thing go.

    What can he do to make up for it? What would you like us to do? He’s not made many challenges like that before or since, and on the day, his mother had to drive him home because he couldn’t stop crying. It’s not as if he didn’t show remorse. It was an accident.

    I think until the vilification of Shawcross stops there’ll always be bad blood between the sides now. It gets me worked up reading about how we’re a team of thugs etc. when I see the progress we’ve made in the last two years.

    Every time we play all of this comes out and Shawcross is made out to be the devil, then we come out to defend our own because we honestly think he’s not only a great defender, but a stand up guy.

    He made a mistimed tackle that through an unfortunate chain of events ended with a horrendous injury for Ramsey that we are honestly sorry for, as is Shawcross from everything I’ve read.

    It seems that most people won’t forgive him unless he magics a time machine, goes back in time and pulls out of the tackle.

    As an Arsenal fan, how would you propose we resolve the bad blood?

    What do you think Shawcross can do to make things right?

  29. You sound like a reasonable bloke Stokierich

    Shame you ended up supporting Stoke…. you could have supported the Arsenal πŸ™‚

  30. stokierich says:

    In another life hey?

    I’m a big believer in supporting your local team, so for me that was The Potters.

    Now I’m down in Exeter it makes it somewhat more difficult however!

    Thanks for a decent discussion anyway chaps, let’s hope in time the clubs can get back to the times when we did have a decent relationship.

    You’ve pretty much got one Stokie on your team and one in a coaching role already πŸ™‚

    (Maybe stretching it to call the Ox a Stokie now πŸ˜‰ )

  31. I don’t think Shawcross can do anything now to make it right. In the minds of most or all Arsenal fans, he nearly ruined the career of a very talented Gunner. The past cannot be changed, He will always be viewed as the player who broke Ramseys leg. That’s the way it is in football fandom.

  32. Stokierich, why do the Stoke fans persist in booing Ramsey, do they think he went down a bit easy under the Shawcross assault?

    No, Arsenal fans, just like their Stoke counterparts, won’t forgive and forget. Although I don’t think any Arsenal player has ever put a Stoke one out of the game for a year.

  33. RC78 says:

    The EPL is, among the Top 5 leagues in Europe, the most physical league where shoving and physical intimidation are part of the game. It has gotten better but still, there is this side of physicality to the EPL for better and unfortunately worse (Ramsey, Wilshere, Debuchy injuries lately…).

    Knowing that, we need these type of tougher players in our squad (Adams, Keown, Vieira…) to compete in this league. Unfortunately, this is an area where we are weak and need to address especially in key positions such as:
    – Central Defenders
    – Defensive Midfielders and Central Midfielders.

    Olivier Giroud is great at being physical and containing physical defending but he is a bit worried about getting injured again and he is being a bit too rough at the moment and need to watch out…However, he is the first striker in ages (Adebayor was not as physical) that can really be called “tough and strong physically) and when he plays, we have this target point offensively and great defensive support from him. Wellbeck needs to become more physical but he is getting there and Sanogo (hopefully) will also get there.

    Koscielny is quite a tough and rough defender but he needs a physical rock next to him as BFG is not really there. I would suggest Garay πŸ™‚

    As for our Defensive Midfielders, well, Flamini is tough and rough but his physical presence is weak especially in the air and he is not as quick as before so we need an upgrade there. Coquelin and Arteta are not there either. You look at Matic or Fernando or Wanyama or Schnederlin or Carrick or Barry and there is clearly a gap there for us to fill…W. Carvalho is very physical but he lacks tactical awareness so I would not buy him but AW seems to see great potential in him…

    Anyways – the point is that the EPL is the physically tougher league in Europe and we have some gaps to fill there and I hope that AW will address these gaps asap…

  34. arnie says:

    Things might have perhaps started changing if Shitecross did not make the statements that led to the article in The Sun before our away game. Alas! πŸ™‚

  35. arnie says:

    Thank you Stokierich. πŸ™‚ That was a very nice discussion. Very generous. πŸ™‚

  36. RC78 says:

    Shawcross is a very good defender and could actually replace BFG IMHO in theory but he definitely lacks brains and he is quick to put oil to the fire so by all means, I cannot stand him not only because of the Ramsey incident but also because he is clearly an idiot…

    I mean it is good to have rivalries between teams and it is good when players fuel up this rivalries a bit but by being respectful and heating things up with comments like ‘We are going there to win. It would mean a lot to our fans…’ not the type of comments that Shawcross makes…

  37. Rasp says:

    Thanks for the post NB69, of course everything you say is correct.

    The FA’s highly selective review process relies on subjectivity from it’s review board – and so the bias continues. Arnautovic had nothing to gain from the push other than to injure our player – its as simple as that. Therefore he has to be penalised to stop other players (in the prem and in the park) following his example.

    We know from the recent tragedy in cricket that freak accidents can occur. What if Debuchy had gone face forward into the hoardings and broken his neck?

    We may have won the game but Stoke have damaged our chances for the rest of the season. Do we really have to go into games against Stoke knowing that there will likely be a high price to pay.

    Let me just dispel one myth. Peter Crouch is a nice guy because he does the robot and comes across well in interviews – not so. He’s not a nice guy on the pitch. We flagged up his use of elbows before the game started. The nearer he gets to the end of his career the more dirty he becomes in his play.

  38. RC78, I watched the Palace/Spuds game (sacrilege I know, but I have a Spurs supporting wife) and Schneiderling in particular, I can’t really see what all the fuss is about, he’s a bit taller than Flamini and Arteta and younger but is he all that much better?

  39. Sorry that last comment was a load of old bollocks. It was the Man U Southampton game I watched. Put it down to senility. πŸ˜€

  40. RC78 says:

    NG – I though he was terrific against Man Utd. I would like to see the number of interceptions, broken plays and tackles he has done so let me check but I though his work rate was quite outstanding but let me check the nrs…

  41. Rasp says:

    Don’t worry about it NG – we’re going to sign Carvalho any way πŸ˜› Although I’d like that to be the truth, I haven’t read one shred of hard evidence that we are in the chase for WC. People ‘in the know’ claim we have been watching him for ages – but another band of ‘experts’ will tell you Schneiderlin is out top target. Either would improve our squad.

  42. Norfolk

    Are you getting a bit confused in your old age? Schneiderlin didn’t play in the Palace/Spuds game πŸ™‚

  43. ha ha ha Norfolk, you can accept your senility πŸ™‚

  44. That was a very good, reasoned discussion with a Stoke supporter, who’d have thunk it πŸ™‚

  45. The Cockie Monster says:

    Nice one `69er !…..with your background, I`m looking forward to your next post called ….” From Thuggery to Buggery and Back !”. πŸ˜€

  46. Shard says:

    In response to your question NB, yes. Certain managers definitely incite violence through the use of code words like ‘get stuck in’, ‘let him know he’s in a game’ etc. These are all words the media pundits, who are often former players, routinely use to describe violent play.

    There is a reason Arsenal, despite their reputation, don’t dive as much as say ManU used to (they stopped after the refs stopped favouring them), and Chelsea now do. because our manager doesn’t like it and doesn’t condone it. Despite his public stance of protecting his player.

    Similarly, certain clubs and certain players would not be continually violent or reckless if their managers didn’t stand for it.

    As for Arnautovic, this sort of foul seems to have become very popular recently in the EPL. Diego Costa shoved Skrtel almost into an onrushing GK and was only called for a foul (itself a small wonder). Gibbs was pushed by Fellaini into Szczesny while in the air, which resulted in an injury and a goal. Giroud reacted to the QPR players push into his own GK, which again could have resulted in serious injury. These are disgusting, cowardly fouls, which the referees seem to allow, and the media make excuses for.

    Although our players did well to not let Stoke throw us off our game, I would have wanted someone from our team to just slide through on Arnautovic late in the game, and take a yellow card for it, just to send a message that we will not be f***ed with. Fear of being sent off by cheating refs with double standards might explain why that course of action was avoided, but I still think that is our best chance of ensuring our own safety, rather than relying on the referees in the league to uphold the rules fairly.

  47. Rasp says:

    Looks like Afobe is on the brink of signing for Wolves. He’s scored 19 goals for MK Dons this season.

    I’m not arguing with the decision, but I wonder what it is that makes the difference between being good enough for Arsenal or not? Afobe appears to have it all. Having said that, I can’t think of many (any) youngsters we’ve let go from the academy that I’d want back. Sidwell didn’t impress me yesterday although Kyle Bartley looks to be doing well.

  48. Shard

    I really don’t think we should take the law into our own hands. It’s the responsibility of the FA. They need to make a stand… using video evidence which is presented to them. If players start to realise that their actions will be retrospectively examined, and if found guilty they will be suspended, then it will stop and the game will be better off.

  49. RC78 says:

    +1 shard – we need to be a bit more intimidating…

  50. TwentyTwelve says:

    Hi stokierich,

    The Shawcross incident happened a little before my time, so I don’t have a first hand response to it. However, I think it has become a symbol for Stoke’s rough play against Arsenal.

    Stoke football is changing, but when Stoke meet Arsenal, the same tactic is used. Even if the approach is applied “within the rules”—although surely the rules do not allow, for example, choke holds—it calls for more aggressive, violent, and deliberately provocative actions against the opponent. I think this mindset of “roughing ’em up a little” that creates dangerous situations where the opposing players can suffer a cut to the face, a dislocated shoulder, or even a broken leg.

    Arsenal supporters resent this, and some of us recite the Shawcross incident as a shorthand descriptor of this nasty tactic.

    How to resolve the bad blood? I certainly do not have the answer, but I think things can be done on both sides. Ignore/forget, if not forgive? Most importantly, play the football Stoke are capable of, when playing against Arsenal. Then I think both sides will have a more enjoyable afternoon out of it.

    As it is though, I don’t see it happening. Arsenal can play to overcome the rough tactics, as they managed to do last Sunday, but until the teams that use such approach see a cost, they will not stop. In other words, why must Arsenal try to defeat the rough tactics? Why is it allowed at all?

  51. I think managers who feel that fouls or ref decisions were responsible for injuries or cards should be able, if it is available, send or present video evidence to the FA. That way, the responsibility falls directly onto the FA’s lap. So for instance, if the video of the push on Debuchy is presented to the FA and they decide it was not a violent act, it would be for all to see that they have a biaised view. They could not get out of it.

  52. Shard says:


    But the FA are doing FA. I’m tired of Arsenal being a victim. Being good and classy shouldn’t mean absorbing punishment indefinitely. Sometimes we need to stoop to their level because that’s all they’ll understand. Given the choice between having Sanchez’s leg being broken by an oaf, or an Arsenal player injuring someone like Arnautovic, I would choose the latter option all season long, and so would most of football.

    It was a different era, but if that were Lauren that was shoved off the ball and hurt like that, do you think Vieira, Bergkamp, Keown etc would have let the perp get away without any retribution, if none came from the man disguised as a referee?

  53. Big Raddy says:

    Bartley would be ideal as a back-up CB but I guess he wanted first team football after his success at Rangers

  54. Big Raddy says:

    “the perp” πŸ™‚

  55. Rasp says:

    Yes, I get that Raddy. I pointed out the other day that one of the functions of our academy is to give young players a springboard into professional football whether they stay at Arsenal or not. I’m not sure Bartley is first choice at Swansea but I wish him luck.

  56. I liked Bartley as well, always thought he had potential… shame he left.

  57. “the perp” Shard has been watching too many American police series πŸ™‚

  58. Shard says:

    I could have used another four letter word Raddy πŸ™‚

  59. Rasp says:

    Hi Shard, we’d have to completely re-model our reputation for your tactic to work. As it is, we often get given yellow cards for soft fouls because we are perceived as not being ‘that sort of team’. On countless occasions we suffer rotational fouling that is not penalised only for one of our players to put in a strong challenge and get a card for his first offence. I think we have to continue with our current strategy and hope we eventually get recognition for our approach to the game.

  60. Shard says:


    I get that. I’ve just changed my mind on it. For that to happen, we would have to win the league. Hard enough to do as it is, without the injuries and dropped points that are the result of said attitude.

    Besides, I don’t think it requires much of a change from us. A tackle at the end of a game to send a message is not hard to do. Play your beautiful football. Beat them, and then send a message. I understand the risk of a sending off, but I think it’s worth it. As long as it hurts, the bullies will learn.

  61. Rasp says:

    I’m beginning to like the idea of a sin bin. It would probably involve too much faffing about, but how about this? ….. If a team commits three fouls in a row (no fouls by the opposition), and they then commit a 4th (without the opposition fouling in between = 4 in a row), the perpetrator should spend 5 minutes off the pitch in the sin bin.

    I also think that whenever a player commits a foul that results in an opponent having to leave the pitch for treatment, the perpetrator should be sent to the sin bin only to return at the same time as the injured player or when a substitution is made.

    Far too radical an idea, but it may put an end to rotational fouling.

  62. Shard
    “Beat them, and then send a message. I understand the risk of a sending off, but I think it’s worth it. As long as it hurts, the bullies will learn.”

    That just plays into their hands…. I don’t think we should meet violence with violence, that would lower our standards. No, we have to wait until the powers that be react to the thuggery that occurs in the game. Laws and justice are there for a reason πŸ™‚

    or blimey, never thought I woukd come out with a statement like that ha ha ha

  63. Rasp says:

    Thanks Shard, I fail to see how risking a straight red for violent conduct awarded at the end of a game (when the result is presumably already determined) would do us any favours. But like you, I am angry about the ongoing assault on our players, and I would take some pleasure in a bit of retribution, but its not in Arsene’s DNA.

  64. Shard says:


    That isn’t us ‘lowering our standards’. It’s us showing that we can get our hands dirty if need be.

    Ideally, we shouldn’t have to. But Arsenal have suffered numerous assaults over the years. I would agree that things have improved a bit. But that’s not saying much after 3 broken legs in less than 4 years.

    To some extent the media noise about our ‘soft centre’ has also decreased in its intensity. But the referees are still doing nothing about it. The FA will only involve itself if they face any media pressure, and this will never happen where Arsenal are the aggrieved party. Whether this be about violence, or about incorrect decisions.

    We won the FA cup despite a cheating ref, and a media intent on peddling a lie. But what if we hadn’t recovered to win? Those 4 penalty calls were never going to be talked about.

    Just like Cahill’s lunge at Sanchez isn’t talked about. Nor is Fellaini’s push on Gibbs. Nor Adams’ headlock. If no one else is going to protect our players, we need to do it ourselves.

    But that’s just my view now because I’ve lost patience and confidence in the system to be fair and correct.

  65. GunnerN5 says:

    Morning all, oops I guess it’s only morning to us in North America.

    Very topical post NB you always manage to get a good discussion going – you just rack up the comments.

    I’ve sent a post in, that if used tomorrow, would be a good follow up to today’s dialogue.

  66. Rasp says:

    Wasn’t it not so long ago that Arsenal were top of the ‘foul play league’ in terms of yellows and reds? I don’t think we ever deserved that reputation. I remember Gervinho getting sent off early on when he reacted to a bad foul – he just wasn’t used to such treatment.

    I wonder if any of the stato’s out there could compare Arsenal’s record in terms of cards per foul (i.e.ref blows his whistle) against other sides. My guess is that teams lower down the league commit more fouls per card.

  67. Rasp says:

    Thanks GN5, we will be delighted to us your post tomorrow.

  68. Shard says:


    A red card is a player lost for 3 games. Injuries like Debuchy’s or worse, Ramsey’s, are a lot longer.

    To be fair, I wouldn’t place Moss in the list of referees who have an anti-Arsenal agenda. But even the better referees are afraid to punish thuggish behaviour because they fear a backlash from the media for killing the English game.

    Can Arsenal succeed while rising above the violence. I would like to think so, but realistically, I don’t think it can happen since it’s too big of a disadvantage. But more than success, I care about the welfare of our players. This is the only way that Arsenal can protect their players because referees, who are supposed to, aren’t doing their job.

    But anyway. I completely get where you’re coming from because not long ago, I would have said the exact same thing.

  69. Rasp says:

    Thanks Shard. Even if your strategy was adopted – who would be the enforcer? Probably only Flamini out of our current squad has it in him to deliberately seek to harm an opponent.

    I agree we definitely need a strong commanding presence at the base of our midfield. If we had such a player, he could impose himself without resorting to foul play – I can’t see Arsene just buying a thug who can’t play football.

    Peaches has claimed for a long time that Arsene likes players in his own image (mindset)

    I think once your anger has subsided you will revert to your previous standpoint.

  70. GunnerN5 says:

    We have lacked a steel backbone for the best part of a decade. I don’t advocate thuggery but I do believe that intimidation is a great tool to have in your kit.

    I may be alone in my assessment of yesterday’s game but frankly I feel that it’s being blown out of proportion as there were no obvious attempts to injure our players, intimidate yes, injure no.

    A player getting bundled over the line happens in nearly every game. I believe that Deduchy was unfortunate in the way that he fell – my only reservation to my way of thinking is that a TV replay cannot reveal the amount of pressure applied to the push – but suffice to say that to this observer it did not look that bad.

  71. Shard says:


    I’m not really angry about Debuchy’s injury. But I am sick of us being, and playing, a victim. Being violent in turn won’t solve all our problems, but I’m willing to bet that if we learn how to play dirty when needed, we’ll be a)more difficult to be bullied/injured, and b) more unlikely to be even tried to be, which would mean we could play our usual game more often.

    I’m disappointed by the lack of a physical response, even as I appreciate the refusal to get thrown off our game plan, because of my personal experience playing team sports. You just do not let your teammate get battered without response. Sure, you time your response, and you have to do it with enough subtlety to get away with it, but you can’t let it go (beyond a point). Especially when the officials aren’t doing their job.

    In a college basketball match, we had this one opponent whose increasing rough play was being tolerated by the ref, including the point when he deliberately swung an elbow into the face of the person guarding him. The rest of the game, all he felt was pain from knees in his back, shoes scraping his shins, elbows in his stomach or coming down on his shoulder blades. Not only did we win that game, the next time we played them, he behaved himself.

    I accept that playing dirty is not Arsenal players’ strong point. But you do what you have to and you stick by each other in a team. That’s just a normal reaction as far as I’m concerned. But perhaps, that point which would demand some retaliation, had not been reached in the Arsenal players’ mind. They routinely face worse after all.

  72. The Cockie Monster says:

    I have always liked the idea of a sin bin and think sometime in the future it may possibly come in along with the inevitable instant replays for refereeing decisions and tie in nicely with the eventual Americanisation of football ( adverts shown whilst Reff` makes up mind on a decision )………………………..although, me, `69er, chas and Transplant will probably welcome more the idea of a ….Madame Sin Bin !.

  73. stevepalmer1 says:

    Much impressed with our Stoke supporter, got to say a Stoke blog is not high on my list of things to do but all credit to him for supporting his Club;

    Funnily enough, didn’t we have a poll recently about Shawcross in a Arsenal shirt, i have to say i think i voted yes. As our Stoke fan said Shawcross did show remorse, yes that didn’t put Ramsey’s leg back together but i bet Shawcross was in touch throughout Ramsey’s recovery. Probably sent him a mail on his first start back.

    Yes Shawcross gets stick everytime he plays the Arsenal, and when our stoke fan asks is there anyway relations would ever change the answer to that is if he left Stoke and pulled on an Arsenal shirt.

    He maybe would never be forgiven by many but one thing an Arsenal supporter likes is heart and commitment Shawcross has that he just plays for a team with a bad image getting slightly better as our Stoke man said but they still have fair way to go. Losing that vile Manager and instilling another with a different approach.

  74. arnie says:

    Remorse? ha ha. πŸ™‚ Just to remind everyone.

    from Raddy’s pre-match a month back

  75. RA says:

    Norther, baby, πŸ™‚

    Just popped back to say well done with the Post. Sorry I forgot to say so earlier.

  76. RA says:


    Glad to see your back safely from your travels!! πŸ™‚

  77. stevepalmer1 says:

    Referee’s are there to keep order they are also there to take action, Giroud just back from a 3 match ban, and could quite easily started another 3 match ban do we call him a thug. Shawcross could have gone down but he never.

  78. Thanks Redders

    Steve, actually after our Stoke supporter visited today I thought I’d visit a Stoke City blog to see what was happening, well, firstly, it was difficult to find one πŸ™‚ but when I did, all it was was Arsenal Wankers, cheats, divers, not real men, about a player who suffered a dislocated shoulder and got it popped back on the sidelines and played on. Old videos from 2012 and earlier of our players going down under dubious circumstances ie Fabregas against Reading I think one was. ha ha ha
    Quite different from the reasonable Stokierich on here today.

  79. stevepalmer1 says:

    Your a glutton for punishment NB, well done Mate, I like to take each game as it comes, previous games have no real relevance in my mind, Yesterday our team performed. We knew Stoke would be a physical challenge but all in all handled them well, City will be another challenge different team and different time hopefully the same result.

  80. arnie says:

    Redders. I am in Michigan and will be based here for the next 4 months. πŸ˜›

    Steve. I see your point. But human beings are human beings. Just as we fans feel frustrated with the FA and refs doing FA about thugs trying rugby in the name of footy. Same with the good guys to some extent.

    however, let us not mix apples and oranges? when is the last time an Arsenal player has inflicted injury on an opposition player sufficient to have that player benched for a month? hmmm.

    I maintain again, the brand of the game promoted in the EPL is not very beautiful. Some may even say it is closer to rugby than football. For me, this is sad. 😦

  81. arnie says:

    I agree Giro has been foolish. but there is a difference between foolish and being sinister. IMO.

  82. stevepalmer1 says:

    Arnie point taken mate, We know the Premier league is not run as good as it could be, A lot goes on that could quite easily be changed, The FA are happy with how its run sometimes they get Pressured as of touchline technology but how often is that used.

    Referee’s follow guide lines, we watch them every week, different rules for different teams,

    Planned out by the FA and executed by their henchmen. Nothing changes, and probably never will, little word ‘corruption’

  83. LB says:

    How long do we wait until we start demanding the termination of Debuchy’s contract?

    He has been injured twice this season, out for ages, taking precious wages.

    I mean there have been complaints about Wilshere always being injured, Ramsey and let’s not forget Diaby.

    Part of this is serious, when an injury is fresh in the mind, people seem to be understanding and sympathetic and yet if a player doesn’t heal quickly or is unfortunate to get a further injury shortly after returning, this good will evaporates.

    So how long do we give Debuchy before we demand the termination of his contract on the basis that he is taking up valuable wages that could be better deployed on more deserving players?

    What is the acceptable time period before the wannabe Pension Ministers for Attila the Hun start demanding he be thrown out?

  84. Oh Dear! Steve you’re beginning to sound like Moanhio and his conspiracy theory.

    The FA don’t appoint refs, they are appointed by PGMOL(Professional Game Match Officials Limited). For Premiership games they come from the “Select Group of Referees”, which is made up of 18 full-time professionals.

    Now whether or not you think the Select Group are up to the job or not is another matter. For the record, I don’t. I think we should use the best referees available from other European Leagues.

  85. LB, You have a point. A dislocated shoulder should be no problem, I remember an England international player having his shoulder dislocated, as he was being carried off on a stretcher he put the shoulder back himself, jumped off the stretcher and got on with the game.

    It was Rugby Union though. They were a bit tougher in those days, come to think of it they still are. πŸ˜€

  86. GunnerN5 says:

    Can teams get insurance to cover an injured players compensation or would the premium be prohibitive?

    Does anybody know the answer?

  87. GunnerN5 says:

    Steve, all supporters believe in the existence of a conspiracy theory – but only against their team……………

  88. Shard says:


    I think Debuchy is safe, because apart from the length of injury layoff, the truly important factor is also how bored people are with the player in question. Half a season at Arsenal and so the new car smell probably hasn’t faded completely. A year later, and we might have seen such statements.

    As long as his ligaments weren’t torn. Toughness is overrated. A player can do more damage by playing on injured. Players are probably no less tough than previously. They’re just worth a lot more money and clubs and their insurance companies probably don’t allow too many chances to be taken.

    The PGMO is run by Mike Riley, who was presumably selected by the panel of FA and PL representatives who are supposed to be the ones in charge ultimately. Who has how much influence there is a matter of debate, since they share no information. Mike Riley and his band recently came in from harsh criticism by the previous incumbent, Keith Hackett.

  89. Shard, “Mike Riley and his band recently came in from harsh criticism by the previous incumbent, Keith Hackett”. Hence my call for European Refs.

  90. RC78 says:

    Quick update on Ligue 1…

    A. Lacazette and N. Fekir are clearly top young players from Lyon…

  91. RC78 says:

    Doesn’t anybody else think that we need tougher guys in our squad given the EPL jouts?

  92. RC78 says:

    here is a link to Schnederlin’s stats vs Man Utd – 95% pass success, 5 interceptions, 5 clearances

    Honestly, you put him in our midfield and it just stabilizes the team and he is good with the ball as well…

    Debuchy, GARAY, Kos, Gibbs
    Ox, Schnederlin, Ramsey
    Walcott, Giroud, Sanchez

    This is a team with strength and pace…

  93. RA says:

    I did not realise you were based in Michigan until the Spring, arnie.

    You must have been a very, very naughty boy to be sent there! πŸ™‚

    Cold, cold, cold — altho’ it can be a lovely time of year. Anyway, you can still chat to us from there. πŸ™‚

  94. RA says:

    Hi LB, πŸ™‚

    A very telling question about ‘fans’ demands!

    I am always amazed that so called fans can be so cold blooded in their attitude towards injured players — as if they injured themselves on purpose.

    You can imagine what these people would say if their bosses told them – ‘tough about the leg break, but that’s the second time, so fook off’.

  95. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Thanks NB very much.

    “do they (some managers) actually incite violent play in their team?”

    Yes, and I think the fact is that the ones to whom you refer are all British, ugly, and from up North.

    However, their more sophisticated European counterpart is simply less obvious about it, and more of a cheaty slimy snake sort. Think Maureen.

    Dislike both obviously.

  96. RA says:


    I don’t think you will find many fans disagreeing about the preference to add a little muscle in midfield and defence in general.

  97. RC78 says:

    RA – true…wonder what AW is thinking…lol

  98. poigmothoin says:

    NB a thought provoking post. My view for what it worth….something of a conspiracy theory. The referees have become game managers, rather than enforcing the rules per se. The times we see different decisions in different matches sometimes leaves me scratching my head. This to my mind has to have the “blessing” of the FA, because a lot of it could be stopped quite easily, if it was wanted. Like it or not imo the FA have a golden goose and don’t want to rock the boat, with the enormous revenues and the tag of most competitive league. After all how much interest would there be generated if every match was “good game , fair result”

  99. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Bonsoir RC78

    Schneiderlin would strengthen us enormously and add the steel we have lacked that GN5 referred to.

    That pairing of Wagamama and Schneiderlin is so strong, but clean and fair.

  100. poigmothoin says:

    Oh and NB you outed me…grass. πŸ™‚

  101. RC78 says:

    Micky – agreed. Both Wanyama and Schnederlin are strong fair players.

  102. MickyDidIt89 says:


    Reading through comments one normally detects a common thread, and then you stumble across a cryptic and obtuse LB bombshell.

    Now I’m a massive fan of drugs, but are you overdoing things lately? πŸ™‚

  103. RA says:


    I hope you noted I kept stumm. πŸ™‚


    Nice 69

    These managers that incite violence have got no class mate.

    Think of Pullis? Were did he develop that nasty towel flicking habit? One day in the school showers some Ugandan kid hung like a snake pointed out Pullis shortcomings. The poor Pulis was so traumatised, hes been flicking penis ever since.

    What about Mark Hughes? His riveting personality is no accident, you have to work really hard to be such a magnificent bore. Probably not his fault. In his teenage years he probably dreamed revenge on his college classmates for having the audacity to talk to girls. Why werent they fantasising murder like him?

    Fat Sam had a very unfortunate incident after consuming a cask of cheap Rum. The pissed Sam made the mistake of accidently entering the ladies toilets were he proceeded to have a massive and extremely noisy dump. Cries of “magnifique Alerdichie” could be heard, only to be followed with a higher toned screech of, “and its all done in the best possible taste Arsene”

    Sam has never lived down the shame, leaving him no choice to mask his Arsene and Kenny Everett fixation with gratuitous violence, and the odd bit of mild transvestism.

    I could go on all day about these numpties, but need the loo, were I relax myself by yelling expletives in a Scotish accent

  105. GunnerN5 says:

    From Football 365.

    Defining Alexis Sanchez isn’t easy. Consider the late breakaway during Arsenal’s 3-0 win over Stoke on Sunday. Sanchez was chasing a hat-trick and had space to run into, but with Theo Walcott free to his right, the Chilean opted instead to slip the ball through to the substitute.

    When Walcott screwed a tame effort wide of the far post, Sanchez was entitled to be disappointed. Instead there was a quick clap for his colleague before getting his head down and running back into position. He is, after all, far more than just a goalscorer.

    “I like the fact he can play left, right, up front, and that’s why I went for him,” said Arsene Wenger in the summer and the Arsenal boss has been true to his word. Having scored goals as a center-forward this season, Sanchez’s brace against Stoke came from the left. But there’s much more to his versatility than that.

    With the likes of Santi Cazorla in good form, it would be wrong to call Arsenal a one-man team. But while there have been players who overshadow their team-mates through force of personality, weight of goals, presence on the pitch or as a creative fulcrum, few do the lot quite like Sanchez.

    The statistics are extraordinary. He’s the Premier League’s fourth-highest goalscorer behind Sergio Aguero, Diego Costa and Charlie Austin. Arsenal midfielder Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain admits Sanchez is not happy when he doesn’t score.

    But then there are the assists. Wenger has hailed his “creativity” while Mathieu Flamini has talked of Sanchez “giving a lot for the team” and that’s literally been the case with the goals he has laid on for team-mates. As well as being the fourth-highest scorer, he’s also the fourth-highest provider of assists in the country.

    Naturally, he ranks behind three completely different players to Aguero, Costa and Austin on this score. Cesc Fabregas, Gylfi Sigurdsson and Leighton Baines are the men with more assists, while only Fabregas has created more clear chances of the type Sanchez provided for Walcott at the weekend.

    Just when you’re thinking Sanchez might be some sort of miraculous hybrid of Costa and Fabregas, there is his dribbling to consider – so you can throw Eden Hazard into the mix as well. Sanchez has the third-most completed dribbles in this season’s Premier League.

    It’s a series of statistics that can only be achieved with a barely believable work-rate in a player of such ability. Sanchez made the most high-intensity runs (66) of any Arsenal player on Sunday and it comes after a similarly stunning display in the FA Cup win over Hull last time out.

    “Forget the ability he has got,” said opposing manager Steve Bruce of that effort. “The work rate and effort and endeavour he puts in – there was no sign of him being tired.” Indeed, the statistics show that Sanchez has taken defending from the front to new levels.

    He has made more tackles and interceptions than the other three highest goalscorers in the Premier League combined. In fact, of the 30 players to score five goals or more, only Mile Jedinak has made more tackles or interceptions – and the Crystal Palace midfielders tally of five includes three penalties. No forward in the country has made more tackles than Sanchez.

    How far these performances can take a flawed Arsenal side remains to be seen and there is a school of thought that dictates that when the player of the year awards are handed out, they should reflect a trophy-winning contribution.

    But when it comes to individual efforts, the case for Alexis Sanchez is a persuasive one. He is the closest thing that the Premier League has to a master of all trades.

    Adam Bate

  106. GunnerN5 says:

    Chelsea’s wage bill has risen to Β£190.5m a year but the Premier League leaders still lag behind both Manchester clubs, according to the latest figures.

    Chelsea’s annual accounts, which have been lodged at Companies House, reveal salaries for the 2013-14 season were up eight per cent from Β£176m last year.

    Manchester United are the highest payers in English football, spending Β£214.8m while City’s wage bill dropped last season to Β£205m.

    Arsenal are fourth in the pay league with a bill of Β£166.4m, while the Southampton’s wage bill is a fraction of their rivals – the latest figures available, for 2012-13, show the Saints, currently third in the Premier League, paid out Β£47.1m in salaries.

  107. Cor RC78

    I’d take Garay… this is mrs Garay, Tamara Gorro….

  108. I reckon she could take a bit of thuggery and a push from behind πŸ™‚

  109. The Cockie Monster says:

    Players were much tougher in the 60`s and 70`s !. I remember Peter Storey would turn up for a game completely knackered after the exertions of pimping all night to subsidise his unfair wages of being a 70`s footballer !. He would then give life and limb on the field for the honour of playing in the red and white .
    I once see him lose a leg in a tackle with Norman Hunter and then lose the other leg up Bremners ginger rectum !…..did he whinge ?…No !…..he bounced along on his testicles and used them space hopper style to out jump Jackie Charlton to head the winner !………well that`s how I remember it after consuming a few ciders up the North Bank !.

  110. Eddie says:

    good debate, well done nb

    I have no idea what should/could be done about our players being deliberately and constantly at the receiving end of some inept cowards, but what I know is that nobody fecked about with TA, Keown, Parlour and Vieira. And I liked that

  111. LB says:

    Lol Micky

    I am glad you enjoyed the read.

    As for the drugs, well, they are a thing of the very distant past.

  112. GΓΆΓΆner In Exile says:

    Evening all, good discussion today, for me it’s all down to management and the way they send their players on to the pitch, it’s also the way those players think they can behave if the game isn’t going their way.

    There is only one reason Shawcross gets a shove in the face from Giroud and it’s because he wants to get that reaction he is begging for it. Before Oli reacts he has had a full on cuddle from Shawcross in the lead up to the corner, learned well from Huth who learned well under Jose, it is cheating, fouling but the media call it dark arts.

    Of all the international teams that have won major competitions in the last ten to twenty years how many have used these tactics? It’s dark ages stuff not dark arts.

    No football fan wants to see an end to tough tackling and a physical game, but surely any right minded fan wants to see an end to tackles at such velocity they can do damage to an opponent.

    Given the reaction from Arsenal fans to Debuchys injury I wonder how many are now a bit more empathetic about Olis reaction to the above towards Greens boot?

  113. GΓΆΓΆner In Exile says:

    GN5 surely that can’t be true, I seem to remember many comments posting something like “Arsenal now have a higher wage bill than Chelsea”…..ho hum guess it pays to wait for the actual accounts to compare like for like sometimes.

    Β£50m behind ManUre, Β£40m behind Shitty and Β£25mbehind Chavs.

    In context that’s Β£1m per week, Β£800k per week and Β£500k per week.

    That’s a massive distance between wages, and not even factored in DiMaria, Falcao, Fabregas, and others.

    And yes Saints are doing well with less spend, but as I have said often enough they are only 2 points up on last season, ManUre have exactly the same 21 game record under LVG as Moyes had, yet currently they sit higher in the table than ManUre did last season, they are benefiting from a very inconsistent season so far, as are Southampton, as Chas said the other week we could probably finish third this season with less points than we achieved last season to finish fourth.

  114. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Glad you responded with a “LoL”
    Have to admit, I spent my first six months of blogging on here thinking how overly familiar everyone was what with “Lots of Love” ‘ing each other all the time πŸ™‚

  115. chas says:

    Cheers, Soixante-Neuf.

    I must admit I was amazed at the game that there were no bookings in the first half. Moss was booed off and he started flashing yellow in the second. Maybe he was influenced by the crowd a little. The Stokies certainly influenced the appalling Anthony Taylor in the away game as BR said.

    I was very impressed with stokierich’s contribution to the day’s blogging. I have had some good chats with Stoke fans away at the Brittania. I don’t like going there after the fires of hatred have been raised to inferno levels pre-match. It makes for a poisonous atmosphere.

  116. MickyDidIt89 says:

    It’s 6:30 in the morning Chas, what the fuck are you doing talking sensible football stuff? πŸ™‚

  117. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All,

    Stoke has mixed memories for me. It is a truly dreadful town and I pity the poor folk who have to live there. Thankfully there are all the excellent curry houses to improve their lot.

    Positive. The first time I saw Genesis play was at Stoke Trentham Gardens in 1972. Started a life-long love affair and is still in my top 10 ever gigs.

  118. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Mmm, Top 10 ever gigs. Thinks….

  119. GΓΆΓΆner In Exile says:

    Stoke – Gardens two words I am surprised to read in the same sentence πŸ™‚

  120. Big Raddy says:

    Micky/Chas. If I listed my top 10 gigs you would hate all of them apart from the Lou Reed Rock n’ Roll Animal concert at the Rainbow.

    4 minute twin guitar intro before the man came on stage to kick off the night with Sweet Jane. Magic.

  121. chas says:

    Soz, I didn’t get on yesterday and felt thanks to 69 were due.

  122. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Serious note here Big. I think you and I differ on the gig thing, with you appreciating the technical side more, with me on the “performance” side.

    I found this the other day and stuck it up on NB’s site.

    Apart from Moon with headphones gaffa taped to his head, check out Pete Townsend. Even head butts his guitar.

  123. chas says:

    Why would anyone not like this stuff? πŸ™‚

  124. chas says:

    This was shown on 1st Jan.
    Well worth watching for anyone who likes the Clash, but also for some magnificent images of British culture in 1977.

  125. Eddie says:

    perhaps Pete townsend should play for us, headbutting Potters would be nice πŸ™‚

  126. Big Raddy says:

    chas. I am quite prepared to accept there may have been psychotropic influences at play!

    Micky. The Who are in my list and that I went to that very tour – queued for a whole night for tickets.

  127. MickyDidIt89 says:

    We have common ground at last.
    I’ll make a cassette for our next car hire. Volume 10 only.

  128. Eddie says:

    chas – that clip is over 1 hour long!!

    What used to happen during TA/Keown/Viera era, was that if an opponent kicked or pushed one of our boys you could bet your boots that before the game was over somehow he was on the pitch screaming with pain. Our big guns were very crafty πŸ™‚

  129. chas says:

    Psychotropic – superb word!

    I was hoping your lifelong love affair was with some girl. You would definitely need a constant supply of some mind-altering shitballs to love Genesis that long. πŸ™‚

  130. chas says:

    Save the link for later and watch it this evening.

  131. Big Raddy says:

    Thanks for the Who vid. Just brilliant.

  132. MickyDidIt89 says:

    That is a guitar performance and a half, also Eddie, the only way to wear dm’s

  133. MickyDidIt89 says:

    ha ha ha ha Eddie

  134. Eddie says:

    ok, thanks, I will watch it when the baby is asleep

  135. Eddie says:

    nb – you should take lessons from rasp, he knows how to melt a woman’s heart. I opened the door last night and he was standing there in the rain and cold holding a fluffy bunny rabbit, oooooh aaahhh

  136. Big Raddy says:

    chas. They turned shit when Collins became a megastar.

    As you say – volume 10 but in the car I hire we will have volume 11

  137. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Did he get laid for his efforts Eddie

    Otherwise, total waste of time, and would have been better off staying in with a hearty rabbit stew

  138. Big Raddy says:

    Do you think Rasp has a fluffy bunny with him at all times?

    Is that him in the 7.24 pic?

  139. Eddie says:

    micky – he did πŸ™‚

  140. Big Raddy says:

    Mmmm. Rabbit stew. Delicious.

  141. Eddie says:

    yes, that’s Rasp’s bum πŸ™‚

  142. MickyDidIt89 says:


    He did get laid!!!

    So you DO after all πŸ™‚

  143. ooh la la, looks as if I got out of bed just in time for some tasty banter…. Eddie /Rasp and laid all in the same comment

    Morning fluffy bunnies πŸ™‚

  144. Eddie says:

    micky – what are you so happy about ? πŸ™‚

    look nb – I really don’t want to see you on my front door with fluffy toys, it won’t do πŸ™‚

  145. “look nb – I really don’t want to see you on my front door with fluffy toys, it won’t do”

    *Put comment here*

  146. Eddie says:

    the only guys that could temp me would be Santi, Per, Jack Dee or a physics doctor/NASA scientist

  147. Big Raddy says:

    NB. Eddie is promised πŸ˜‰

    I watched the Ballon D’or yesterday. Those chaps have the remarkable ability to make an hour seem like a week.

  148. gynecologist not tempting then? even with a fluffy toy πŸ™‚

  149. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Sorry Eddie, but no backing down now with all this crap about the “only guys who could tempt me”….

    You were very clear

    “I” opened the door, and Rasp got laid!

  150. Raddish

    Are you making that promise for Monaco? πŸ™‚

  151. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Oh, and I may have a draw full of White Company candles to get me out of trouble, but NB has a garden full of rabbits to get himself into some πŸ™‚

  152. MickyDidIt89 says:


    NB reads “Space Rockets Weekly”

  153. Micky

    I think for Eddie it’s more to do with how much you’ve got in your sky rocket πŸ™‚

  154. MickyDidIt89 says:

    No need to lower the tone, NB, you have your own site for that kind of smutty innuendo πŸ™‚

  155. Now would I do that Micky?

  156. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Eddie’s gone quiet. I reckon she’s been told off πŸ™‚

    Oh, and Yes, NB πŸ™‚

    Work. Max two hours today I’ve decided.

  157. Eddie probably fancies Sheldon Cooper:

    knock knock knock “Eddie”, knock knock knock “Eddie”, knock knock knock “Eddie” πŸ™‚

  158. Eddie says:

    busy today πŸ™‚ bye

  159. ha ha ha… I’m probably the only person on here who will be working less that Micky today πŸ™‚

  160. Right, I’m off too, need to post some Rack on my blog πŸ™‚

  161. poigmothoin says:


  162. MickyDidIt89 says:

    You’re IN poigmothoin πŸ™‚

  163. Poig

    You’ve craiced Eddies code ha ha

  164. Big Raddy says:

    After 9, must be time to mention football.

    Sanogo to Palace. Good for us, good for him and if it works, good for Palace. His scoring record for France is excellent so the potential is certainly there – what he lacks is calm under pressure which with confidence will come.

    I wish him well.

  165. ha ha Raddy……… football talk killed the blog πŸ™‚

  166. Rasp says:

    Morning all, nice to read through the morning banter and find my better points are appreciated πŸ˜€

  167. Rasp says:

    And on that cheeky point ……….

    ….. New post ……..

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