Does anyone know what Wilshere’s best position is?

After last night’s international there has been a lot of discussion about our Jack.

Here are some of the comments, so feel free to join in.

arnie said:GB. In general terms, I agree. However, you are looking at the interests of Jack as an individual player. Arsene has to balance both the team’s interests and the player’s. Some other managers would have looked, or tried to look, only at the team’s interest. Maybe Roy is one of them.

Now, like everywhere else in professional life, it is up to the individual to some extent. You or I cannot go to our workplace and say, we want to do the job that we are best at. We have to do the job that creates best value. Same for Jack.

I think, moving forward our DM positions will be in rotation Rambo, Jack, Calum and maybe Diaby. Rambo is currently better in scoring crucial goals, so Jack may have to stay back. And rightly so. He is young. He has to either learn the holding MF game, or learn how to score more goals at crucial times. 🙂

GoonerB said:Hi Arnie. Sorry I can’t always reply immediately and sometimes come back to a point a bit later. Re. your 9.39. I am in agreement with you that any player is not greater than the team so if a certain player has to adopt a role that is not their favourite but that it allows the team performance to be stronger in another sense then using the old cliche, they need to take one for the team.

That concept should also obviously translate to Jack, providing that when he is played out of position that the team performance is enhanced. We would need to analyse how the team played with him in his best position vs when he is played out of position. I don’t have all the games to hand but casting my mind back to last season my recollection is that when Jack was played out of position and didn’t play well that generally the whole team performance stunk. I also seem to recall that when played in his favoured role with the right holding midfield partner that both he and the team looked better.

Jack has had an up and down period since coming back from injury but I feel that he is not an ordinary utility player to cover many roles, but one that can change the whole dynamic of a game in your favour if he is utilised correctly. I feel at Arsenal with the greater competition for places that Jack will need to be more subject to rotation for a while. Players like Arteta, Rosicky, Flamini, Cazorla will slowly ease away or move on leaving a more regular role for him over the next 2-3 seasons.

The danger for me with England, who I don’t feel are blessed with players of Jack’s ability, is that we pulled it off last night with Jack played out of position. Roy and the media may think that’s it I’ve cracked it but I think when it comes to crunch time against sterner opposition the set-up last night will fail. We have seen it too many times before with England.

Rasp said:Hi GB, yes that’s the point I was trying to make. Push and go is all very well but it makes you a bit one dimensional, hopefully playing with the likes of Ozil and Cazorla will rub off on him and he’ll pick up some more skills. I also saw that he would try to beat one player too many and run out of space down the line, when a quick turn and cutting inside may have been a better option.

Norfolk Gooner said : GB, does anyone know what Wilshire’s best position is? How do we know he won’t turn out to be a world class holding mid-fielder?

Wenger seems happy with what he brings to the team at present, being able to fill more than one role is something Le Professeur values in a player. He is always ready to convert players into something not previously considered by the “experts” in the media.

With the number of games to be played this season I’m sure Jack will get ample opportunities to fulfil whatever role Wenger chooses for him.




115 Responses to Does anyone know what Wilshere’s best position is?

  1. kelsey says:

    The answer appears to be,nobody 😉

  2. kelsey says:

    These were my earlier thoughts.

    In a way I feel sorry for Jack.I agree with GoonerB that Jack is not naturally a holding midfielder for us or England but for him to play more offensively he faces a lot of competition at Arsenal. He is caught between two stools so my conclusion is that we won’t get the best out of him .
    Some players are more adaptable than others he is not one.

  3. Sam says:

    He’s a battling box-to-box midfielder. Sadly / luckily we have two very good options that play that role. Managing and alternating between Jack and Rambo should ensure we have this dynamism all season. Cazorla / Ozil doing the same at no.10.

    Ideally a new (more imposing) option in DM position would have set our midfield up nicely for the season ahead.

  4. Sav from Australia says:

    Goodness knows, I don’t know what his best position is…I don’t know, maybe Arsene does not even yet know? Or maybe he does??? [head pains]

    But have to say, this is an innovative idea for a post. Hats off to the contributors and Kelsey for posting it.

  5. arnie says:

    Well done Kelsey, and caught me unawares. 😛

    For me, the starting point of the discussion was this fantastic contribution from GoonerB:

    GoonerB says:
    September 9, 2014 at 9:26 am

    I have no problem with Jack rotating with other players at Arsenal but when AW does play him I would like it to be to suit his strengths. Last season he was played in both wide positions at times. He did his best but can we criticise him if he doesn’t look a world beater there.

    I feel Jack’s best position is as one of two deeper or defensive midfielders but with him having a more box to box licence, so that he is both dfensive and attacking at different times. The other DM then needs to be more a holding midfielder which can safely release Jack for his driving runs upfield.

    I feel Bayern play this way with the 2 DM’s with more specified roles often with Schweinsteiger getting the box to box role. Watching games last year I always felt Jack’s best performances were when he played with Flamini, who acts as a midfield minder for him. Flamini seems to release Jack more so that he play without too much caution. I never felt he played as well with Arteta who is not as much a natural holding midfielder as Flamini.

    I actually think Jack is better bringing the ball from deeper than Ramsey is but Rambo has big game winning goals in him. Should they actually be competing for the same slot or should Ramsey actually be competing with Ozil and Cazorla for a more advanced role?

    Arsenal have more competition for Jack’s position but England really don’t which is why it is more annoying that he is not utilised well for them. Did anyone notice that the pre-world cup friendlies and Costa Rica dead rubber game that Jack featured in and was criticised for saw him mostly partner Lampard in midfield. Hardly the best holding midfield partner to bring the best ball carrying bursts upfield out of Jack is it?

  6. arnie says:

    For me, clearly: (a) Jack has talent and creativity, (b) he is young keen and learning, and (c) this is potentially his breakout year and he should get chances.

    Now, the attacking midfield position(s) may be what suits Jack’s game best at the moment, but he is behind the pecking order there. That may change during the year, but unless something of a disaster happens, chances may be limited. Sorry, bad thoughts for a moment, let us not go there.

    So, DM position is most likely for Jack this year. There, and as Sam says, there will be competition with Rambo. Or shall we say rotation?

    What about the holding MF position then? Well, there are Arteta and Flamster, perhaps even Chambers or Diaby, but it seems like there may be some regular opportunities for Jack here. IMO, it is not too bad. Jack offers something better than the others, in terms of attacking creativity. If he can beef up his credibility in the holding role a bit better, I am all for it.

    At the very least, Jack should get chances. He is young, he will grab his chances with both hands (or feet, leaving at least one on the ground). The initial indications are encouraging. I notice with some pleasure that Jack has started trying to stay on his feet.

    On with it!

  7. LB says:

    But why are we having this debate?

    I have been told by everyone and his brother that Wilshere is an attacking midfielder.

    Having second thoughts are we?

    Realised at last that he is not a natural goal scorer?

    Realised that he lacks enough pace to be a box to box player?

    Because of those limitations the best hope for him is that he can adapt to the Arteta role which is where Hodgson played him last night.

    But I am not holding my breath.

  8. LB says:

    For Jack to move up the pecking order and play “his preferred position” of attacking midfield, all of the following need to be injured.


    Says a lot about how good Lil Jack is as an “attacking midfielder” that he is that low in the pecking order.

  9. Donald Stewart says:

    I don’t think there is a best position for Jack other than as a box to box player but Ramsey has that role and is alot more polished and accomplished and a great finisher and times his runs into the box perfectly none of which Wilshere does.
    Jack loves his give and go’s which is good as it ups the tempo of our midfield, however you will notice almost all the time after he beats a player, doesn’t release the ball at the right moment, and constantly runs into a bunch of defenders and loses the ball. And sits there with his arms out in exasperation to the ref as the play rages on at the other end.
    I dont think Wilshere has the vision or the nuance or the shooting to be a number 10 or the discipline both mentally and positionally to b a holding mid either. We would not have gotten a point at Everton had we not subbed him.
    I dont want to appear overly harsh but we have alot more effective options than him currently in our midfield pecking order.

  10. Big Raddy says:

    kelsey. Good work.

    It depends upon who we are playing. Against Orcs – on the bench. Against decent teams – in the centre circle

  11. LB says:

    For the sake of balance, Wilshere would be one of the first names on my team sheet for the weekend.

    City will come onto us and there will be a battle royal in the midfield. That being the case we will need Wilshere’s defensive skills, the man can tackle. So with everyone expected to be fit my team would be:


    Debuchy, Mertasacker, Kosceilny, Gibbs



    ————Sanchez, Welbeck, Ozil

    I would not be upset if the Ox played over Ozil.

  12. LB says:

    Hi Donald

    Is this the first time on the site?

    If it is I would like to say in my unofficial position that that is a really good comment and I hope you come back.

    And while you are here perhaps you might take a look above at the box titled.

    “Be our guest”.

    Feel free to become an author, give us your view.

  13. aizedlittlemozart says:

    Hi all, been a while. Interesting post & kindly allow me to add my cube of sugar to our cup of tea.

    Jack’s best performances & best season (club player of the year) came from playing in midfield with two players, cesc fabregas & Alex Song Bilong. Song back then had fabregas ahead of him who was so phenomenal that he did not feel the need to go all Hollywood on the team the way he would do most times after cesc left.

    What did song offer back then? A specialist defensive body in midfield. Cesc could do what he did best, orchestrate. and Jacky boy could do what he knew (IMO) best, link up.

    He is not so defensive that he can be a DM, he isn’t (yet) as refined as to become a pure AM.

    his best game for England was as a double pivot with Gerard & Rooney(?) as the #10. Against Brazil (friendly). MOTM performance! this season his best performance came against besiktas playing beside the flamster.

    I think, & have always said, that Jack’s best position is currently occupied by a very in form Aaron Ramsey. And in a world where all arsenal players are fit, he’d be 3rd choice for me behind diaby. But he’s got to be box-to-box for me.

    Ps: am I the only one who thinks that after his injuries Jack’s tackling has reduced a bit? I used to compare him with Mozart in that regard but it seems he’s become a bit more conscious about risking it(?)

  14. RC78 says:

    He is a Nr. 8 and 1/2 for me :-p

    A kind of box-to-box midfielder but without the steely engine required and without the defensive strength required. As a result, I added a 1/2 to the 8 as he is better suited for attacking football.

    He is like Franck Lampard without the scoring ability but with a better ability to run past people with the ball…Unfortunately, with everyone fit in our squad, he does not make it in our starting XI:

    Szecesny – Debs, BFG, Kos, Gibbs – Ramsey, Arteta – Ozil – Walcott, Welbeck or Giroud, Sanchez

    So for me, he is adding great value to our bench and could be our X-factor in some games but he does not make it in my starting XI with everyone fit. Luckily for him, Ozil and Ramsey like injuries so he will get playing time as a starter for sure and definitely in cup games.

    In the league cup, I would like to see us start with:

    Ospina – Bellerin, Chambers, Yepes (yes he is coming), Monreal – Flamini, Wilshere – Cazorla – Ox, Podolski, Campbell

    Plus give a chance to Gnabry, Sanogo and of course use Rosicky and Diaby as well when they are fit…

  15. Eddie says:

    Jack looked very comfortable in a pool

  16. Eddie says:

    I know sweet eff all about formations, but it is pretty obvious that Jack is neither striker nor defender. So he a midfielder. He is left footed, so he is probably best equipped for the left side. so the only doubt remains – is he attacking or holding midfielder? Cannot he fit into each role as if/when needed?

  17. stevepalmer1 says:

    Evening all,
    Jack Wilshere has talent, no doubt about that, His best position, wherever he can be consistent..Jack in my mind has not got a shot in him, In all the games i have watched him he kicks like a powder puff, Jack i felt had very little pace but watching him last night chasing back surprised me a bit. When people ask questions like the one you have asked, normally means that you have doubts about Jack.

    I have to say that i have had doubts about Jack for a very long time. I feel its true to say that many’s the time when Jack hasn’t played particularly good nor has the rest of the team.

    I have seen Jack give the ball away many many times but so have a lot of others as well. Just lately Jack has bucked up and he has started intricate passes that have been a pleasure to watch, He has of course been injured and was out for some time, many said he needs games and he will improve, i am in the camp that feels he has, but now the England Manager has switched him to accommodate another midfielder, probably better for the new guy to lose the ball forward than at the back,

    Jack seemed to fit in quite well for last night, he did look lost at times and never moved into space but it is new to him, personally i would prefer him more forward if he is to play as losing the ball at the back could be costly.

    I would have expected Hodgeson to have asked Wenger what he thought about Jack in that roll, and maybe between them they are experimenting with him.

    I get the feeling that both Managers realise that he has talent but is that enough for the Premier, My thoughts are that Jacks best position would be a league down as i believe he would thrive there.

  18. mickydidit89 says:

    Thanks Kelsey.

    Ummmm…urrrrr…..Goalkeeper? 🙂

  19. mickydidit89 says:


    “Jacks best position would be a league down”

    Wow, that’s harsh. I mean, not even a starting berth at say Burnley, Leicester or Spurs?

  20. mickydidit89 says:


    New seats at The Ems? Wow, cool 🙂

  21. arnie says:

    This are the comments GoonerB referred to:

    “I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.

    “It was my first time ever playing there, so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly – Pirlo, Mascherano and players like that and I’ll get better.

    “I felt it went well tonight but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”

    Source: Express

  22. arnie says:

    LB. “But why are we having this debate?” Because it is good fun. 😛

  23. LB says:


    You need the rest of the comment for that line to make sense.

  24. RA says:

    LB is right.

    We have done this subject to death, and it is the same old, same old arguments, from pretty much the same people — so count me out.

  25. mickydidit89 says:

    3 2 1 and whoosh, he’s gone 🙂

    Mind you, I’d better go or no food

  26. stevepalmer1 says:

    Have you ever noticed that when we sell players that we have got used to, such as Sagna, before the sale we really like the player and feel we can’t do without them. Van Persie springs to mind as of Cesc, but a month after they have gone we call them money grabbers or glory hunters missfits and the like.

    Once the Manager has made up his mind on a player then that settles everything down, Even a few good results eases the burden as well.

    What this actually means is that no player is ireplaceable. When our Manager believes that a player like jack is not doing the business he will act, and we. We will follow

  27. LB says:

    No, no, no

    I didn’t mean it literally, I was being flippant.

    I can talk about Jack until the cows come home.

    What I meant by the sentence: Why are we discussing Jack? Is that every time the subject comes up I get told that he is an attacking midfielder which I have always insisted he isn’t.

    It seems only now that certain people are starting to see what I have been saying all along.

    I think it is an excellent choice for a debate and I congratulate Kelsey for posting it.

  28. LB says:


    To me the common link between the three players you mention above is that they all made up their minds to leave regardless of what the club had in mind.

  29. arnie says:

    LB. 🙂

    Redders. That is hitting under the belt. You mean you have nothing exciting to say 😁

  30. arnie says:

    Steve. Let us not speak I’ll of the dead:razz:

  31. arnie says:

    Bloody smartphone. Rather, bloody me. Useless with technology

  32. stevepalmer1 says:

    You have got a point LB, can’t disagree there mate,

  33. Eddie says:

    in the meantime red Mancs are crying bitter tears over our Danny 🙂

  34. fatgingergooner says:

    Ramsey limped off with a sore ankle. Oh dear.

  35. arnie says:

    oh dear! Rambo? 😦

  36. arnie says:

    bloody international break! 😦

  37. mickydidit89 says:

    Anyone else get out last night for the last Super Moon (perigee) of the year.

    Eeeks, it was bright here. Not a cloud, and was fairly high around 2-3am when I woke up and went for a walk.

  38. mickydidit89 says:

    Any post match news on length of Aaron outski?

  39. mickydidit89 says:

    I’ve had a thought about this site.

    There is absolutely nothing to talk about Arsenal realated at the moment, and it will happen again. There are only a handful of writers, and over the years we’ve done everything from Stadium Design to Hair!

    I’m doing Excel spreadsheets all week, and there are layers. 2015 through to 2018 on separate invisible pages.

    I know we have to stick to football here, with minor deviations 🙂 , but layers would be good.

    I know this is impossible, but just a thought.

  40. Gööner In Exile says:

    Jack will never be a holding/defensive midfielder pure and simple.

    I am not sure where this idea comes from that he is a good tackler comes from, his red card count will be as high as Paul Scholes, another who couldn’t tackle.

    Can Jack shoot? Yes we’ve seen it maybe not often enough but we have, can he time runs into the box? Yes he can we’ve seen him score diving headers with an empty net in front of him, or tap ins at the far post.

    What is his best position? Not defensive midfield. Probably not a typical No 10 either. In that he needs to move with the ball from deeper to be most effective. But then I think we have two No 10’s Santi and Ozil and only one of them has provided a regular goal threat.

  41. mickydidit89 says:

    Damn you Exile

    Could of popped in yesterday and had a fight with LB 🙂

  42. kelsey says:


    So Ramsey has a twisted ankle, hopefully fit for the weekend.


    I take umbrage to your 7.23. 🙂

    We had no new post and based on the international, Jack as well as Danny were our main talking points as obviously we look how our players perform.

    I don’t control the site as to which posts to use or not but peaches said the cupboard was bare.

    I waited and nothing happened and then arnie said discussing Jack would make a good post,so at 3.30 I just put the earlier comments together and hopefully thought,once on Newsnow we may get a few other opinions.

    I assure you I have more than enough on my plate at the moment and there seems to be a divide if we should have a new post every day though as you all know in the lull period peaches said it wouldn’t be the end of the world if we go a day or so without a new topic.
    This site is not about hits it’s about debate.

  43. chas says:

    Theo has said he won’t be back for the spud game in a Mirror interview – so pencil him in!

  44. chas says:

    It’s all down to the different lengths of the pendula.

  45. chas says:

    The gooners celebrating taken from the other side.

  46. chas says:

    I’m not sure I understood the “layers” idea?

  47. mickydidit89 says:

    Post sent.

  48. kelsey says:

    We had to put our oldest dog,Sophie the boxer, down last night. She was nearly 13 and was originally a stray pup and has always been part of the family. She had struggled on this past year but it was for the best, she will be missed a lot by all of us.

  49. mickydidit89 says:

    One for Arsenal chat, one for soft filth etc 🙂

  50. chas says:

  51. mickydidit89 says:

    Actually Chas, I was bored and had nothing to say Arsenalwise, but really wanted to ask Arnie about his Scotland Independence thoughts.

  52. chas says:

    Sorry about Sophie.

    I don’t think anyone was criticising you for getting a post out.

    Every time GoonerB or 26 comment it’s like having a new post anyway.

    Maybe they could just send their comments to Nuts and you could put them up as a post from there? 🙂

  53. LB says:

    The idea that Jack Wilshere is a good tackler comes from me, certainly better than Ramsey or Arteta, obviously not Flamini.

  54. chas says:

    I thought Rambo and Arteta had much better stats for tackling than Jack.

  55. VCC says:

    Hi Kelsey. So sorry to hear about Sophie. I’m sure you gave her a good life.

  56. chas says:

    I don’t think the influx of foreign players has been to the detriment of the national team.
    The overall standard of the First Division/Premier League has improved and the same top English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish players still rise to the surface.
    Do we really want to go back a league full of journeymen home countries’ players?

    The national team were just as shite in the 1970s and 1980s before the premier league money came in as they have been since in the 90s, 2000s and 2010s.

  57. chas says:

    * back to a league

  58. kelsey says:

    Oh sorry chas my post deleted itself 🙂

    I still think more of our British players should play abroad but I take your point.

  59. arnie says:

    Motning all.

    Kelsey, bad news, sorry about Sophie. 😦

    Coleman said it remains to be seen whether Rambo would be fit for this weekend. Could have been much worse. 🙂

    Chas. Lovely pendulum show. I wish my school days were equally exciting. 🙂

    Micky. Yes, referendum, exciting times, scary as well. 🙂 whichever way the poll goes. perhaps best discussed by email? 🙂

  60. RA says:

    Morning, Guys, and especially you, Kelsey. 🙂

    Kelsey, please do not take umbrage at anything I said. (which wasn’t a lot) 🙂
    I read your Post when I popped on to support the site and have a chat.
    I could have simply read the subject matter and buggered off without putting on a comment when I saw it was about Jack, again. Yawn.

    But the site, at the moment, seems to needs support, I think, and I decided to let you know I had read the Post/Comments (thank you for your efforts) and explain why I would not be staying.

    That’s all it was. 🙂

    Sorry about your dog. I have been there more than once and losing a treasured pet can be devastating.

  61. arnie says:

    all was very exciting and inclusive in Bonny Scotland, but last few weeks as polls have started getting tight, it has turned a bit divisive

  62. RA says:


    Some of the comments I have heard from my English friends which have amused me have concerned not being able to vote in the independence debate – because they want to vote yes! 🙂

    Not sure if they have been kidding.

  63. arnie says:

    OK, this is not a politics site, and at the risk of having my ears tweaked. Yes was always a possibility, now it is a distinct possibility. Some may question what independence means in this context, maybe much the same as Ireland. It now turns out that this looks like a genuine demand of about half of the Scottish people, only half so either way it is divisive.

    Yes, the English attitude towards the Scottish has a bit to do with the situation!

  64. RA says:

    Micky at 6:15.

    When you say you want to talk about ‘layers’ did you mean you want to discuss what are the best chickens for laying eggs?

    Rhode Island Reds are pretty good, although most hens are known only by numbers nowadays as they are specially bred hybrids.

    Put you off your eggie breakfasts. 🙂

  65. Big Raddy says:

    kelsey. Horrible to hear about Sophie. Even though these things are expected they still hit hard.

  66. arnie says:

    ah, I see, Micky wants to find out which comes first, chicken or egg? A noble endeavour indeed!

  67. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All,

    chas “Do we really want to go back a league full of journeymen home countries’ players?

    Answer – some of us look upon the days prior to the international transfer merry-go-round with affection 🙂

    Love the Pendulum wave demonstration. I want to seta huge one up in the centre of town

    RA-8.28. I assumed Micky had problems with the P on his keyboard (like Eddie did with her T a couple of years back)

  68. arnie says:

    I have a problem with my fingers, they go to teh wrong place all teh time. End up typing “teh” rather than “the”. 😛

  69. RA says:

    Morning Raddy, and stop being sensible! 🙂

    Are you suggesting that someone is taking the p out of Micky?

    Anyway, I thought it was a great topic — everyone loves eggs, so off to have three of ’em poached! 🙂

  70. Big Raddy says:

    I hvae teh same prloebm.

    RA. I just put two eggs on to boil 🙂 🙂

  71. arnie says:

    Smiles all round. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Micky said he wanted to discuss Scotland, and then bugg***d off. Typical English gentleman! 🙂

  72. Morning all

    Thank you kelsey for cobbling together those thoughts for a post, I thought it was a very good idea. Very sad to hear about Sophie, I know how much the dogs mean to you.

    Rasp and I were talking about Jack yesterday …… really I think Jack’s best position was as Cesc’s replacement but his injuries kept him out of the game at a crucial time in his development and Rambo moved ahead of him as his goal scoring prowess made him undroppable.

    Sadly, I feel Jack’s time may have passed, as we have better players ahead of him, unless he’s able to find some consistency which will be hard if he can’t get game time. Rock and a hard place.

    Just sorting the post ……………..

  73. We have a New Post ………………….

  74. GoonerB says:

    Sorry guys, after my last comments yesterday I was waylaid for the rest of the day, only to pop back on to find that a Kelsey / Arnie / Norfolk combination had put up a new post very much around the discussions I was having with them earlier. I now feel rude for not being here.

    I suppose R.A is right that we have done the Jack thing to bed. As a final (ish) note my basic thoughts are that the England set up will ruin him and that AW has collected too many similar players too be able to allow Jack the regular playing time in his best position so that he can achieve his full potential. I think he has true world class ability that most players don’t have, and he is now at a crucial time where he needs the right environment to make it happen. It will not happen if he is constantly played out of position and I think what Hodgson is doing is ridiculous despite the victory on Monday.

    If I were speaking to Jack now I would advise him to leave Arsenal, even as a staunch Jack supporter and obvious Arsenal fan. I just feel a promising career is on the verge of going into ruin and I don’t want to see that happen. I actually think one of the other big European clubs would take him in and build around him as a key player and allow him to fully develop. Unless AW manages to sort out the conundrum of his collection of too many similar players, and gets jack with regular playing time in his best position this season, then I think his near future would best be served overseas.

    I almost feel that the situation with jack at Arsenal is not too dissimilar to welbeck’s at Utd. I have more to say on the subject but will refrain. I actually have a post in mind (not purely jack orientated), about English players and the England team historically and now which will highlight my thoughts more.

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