New Wage Structure a Possibility?

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.

Those are the wise words of Wilkins Micawber, the man himself struggled to live by the maxim and found himself in debtors prison. Ok he is fictional, and admittedly Arsenal Football Club is not one man with a propensity for overspending so why is this relevant.

In the aftermath of van Persie’s bridge burning ceremony and the open criticism of the board by Red and White Holdings questions once again were asked about the wage structure at the club. Before I go any further I want to make one thing clear, no one apart from the player, his agent and the club know what each player is earning.

This doesn’t stop a great deal of speculation, last year a list of players and their salaries was linked to by various sites as gospel, that list proclaimed Chamakh as earning £60k a week, this week the Fiorentina chairman said that Chamakh was on €3m per year which equates to £44k a week and therefore they could not afford him, okay so it is still a fair chunk of money, but in lieu of a transfer fee to be expected. Does £44k a week illustrate wreckless spending when Dzeko twiddles his thumbs on the Etihad bench whilst picking up what is believed to be a salary of £160k a week.

This is the market we are operating in, and whilst it is true that City and Chelsea distort the marketplace our players are also expecting similar salaries, and quite frankly most will not be happy on £10k a week as much as we would like to think they would stay and play for the badge.

The club have been criticised for not dealing with van Persie sooner and for allowing the wage parity between players, I know one thing, if the club had put van Persie on £150k a week contract before the start of the 10-11 season there would have been many fans scratching their heads.

Now we have increasing speculation that Barca are expressing an interest in Koscielny, we apparently have looked to sign him up to an improved deal but if he fails to sign I expect to see fans question again the initial contract and why he wasn’t signed up sooner. Again if Arsene or Ivan had announced a new contract for Koscielny after his first year just how many Gooners would be phoning TalkShite and expressing again how clueless the pair are?

One of the main criticisms of the Arsenal wage structure is that in recent years Arsene and the club have sought to narrow the gap between high and low earners and that has led to a bloated squad (paying youth players too much etc), the second criticism most often heard is that we are not paying our best players enough to keep them and selling them before or at their peak, and finally is that just one or two £30m buys would be nice (remember “we aren’t asking them to break the bank”)

In 2010-11 Arsenal made a profit of £14.76m only £2.2m of this related to football profit and the football profit would have been a loss but for some player sales (which turned a profit of £6.2m). The wage bill was £124m for all the employees at the club, I’ll assume that the player share is 90% (which leaves £12.8m to pay the other 380 employees on an average salary of £31k…this includes Arsene, coach, asst manager, scouts, the medical team, doctors, directors, sales people etc £31k might be a bit light as an average).

How would you do it different?

Taking the football loss and adding back the wages and player amortisation at the end of May 2011 when you take over the running of the team you have a budget of £142m a year to spend on wages and transfers. In addition we received £50m from the sale of Cesc and Nasri, that is your maximum extra funds to spend on transfer fees or wages…I know what you are thinking “what about that £160m everyone says is sitting in the bank can’t I have a fund to start with?” Well I’m afraid not, as a result of the property financing we have to keep £60m in the bank, our Net Current Assets (thats everything we have due to us in a year less everything due to pay in the year) is £90m, £30m of which is Property so we have to keep that money in the bank to comply with the borrowing requirements.

So there you go empty squad sheet, clear out the dead wood by giving them all free transfers and leave yourselves with the players you would want and put them on the salary you would like, just how will you balance the books and prevent them leaving to go elsewhere and at the same time saving money to spend on new transfers.

We are getting closer to the position where we can spend without fear, new commercial deals are around the corner, but in the meantime and for the next two seasons a fine balance still needs to be struck.

Who Pays?

Getting rid of the reserves and paying the first team in competition with City is only possible in one way – Usmanov buying the club and doing what he has promised.

5 players on £200k a week = £52m
5 players on £150k a week = £39m
5 players on £100k a week = £26m
10 players on £50k a week = £26m

(let’s get one thing clear this is the kind of ridiculous money they pay, Nasri £170k a week, Adebayor £170k a week, Yaya Toure £200k a week)

Thats a total spend of £143m, £1m over my budget for a season (excluding the £50m i had to buy some talent) and I have nothing set aside for next season to buy anyone new. And players at these levels aren’t picked up on a free very often.

In addition we won’t ever have extra money from selling the best talent as we will release them when they have served their time.

If we decide this is the only route to take why do fans ask that someone else pays for it? Why don’t we want to pay it through increased ticket prices and membership?

Gooner in Exile

112 Responses to New Wage Structure a Possibility?

  1. Ganium says:

    Arsenal plz do the management wisely or else we will be losing our best player to the money spender

  2. […] New Wage Structure a Possibility? […]

  3. Pusha T says:

    Plz let Usmanov take charge of d club. We need big money spenders to take charge

  4. Rasp says:

    Interesting post GiE. I note you make the point that we makwe a loss without players sales and yet I was told I was wrong when I made the same point in a post a few days ago. The deficit averages around £13m I believe.

    I think a new wage structure is essential. Times have changed and we have to change with them.

    As you say, city have skewed the whole process and it could be argued that we have benefitted from them overpaying for players, but it also means that they can pretty much cherry pick from our squad whenever they choose.

    IG said that you cannot keep a player who wants to leave – and I agree.

    It has also been said that when you allow an important player to get into the last 2 years of his contract, the power transfers into his hands – I agree.

    So maybe there should be some mechanism written into a 4/5 year contract that stipulates that new contract negotiations must take place at a certain point and if a player refuses to talk to the club, there should be some form of penalty or loss of loyalty bonus.

  5. richard morgan says:

    good post thoroughly enjoyed it, though the current player wage bills is somewhere between 60-70 percent and the club had ideally wanted that to be at 50% but still not a bad percentage. The clubs sustainable model in the long run will ensure financial stability and remember this was supposed to make us live with utd who could out sepnd us easily. Unfortunately chelsea and city picked up sugar daddy’s who spend money on their hobbies like its going out of fashion. Nothing against the sheikh’s they kept racing alive all these years and love their sport but the fact remains these clubs are not self sustaining at the present time. If the stadium loans is paid of in 2015 as i think it’s supposed to are spending ability will improve it will never match chelsea and city but thats life. Even mighty barcelona are struggling financially. remember in 2010 we were in with a shout in all competitions until february after the carling cup defeat then we fell apart. last season was down to TWO FACTS THAT WENT AGAINST US the first was due to some bad luck in defensive injuries sagna breaking his leg twice jenkinson injure gibbs and santo injured and tv5 injured at various stages we were never settled in the back line secondly our transfers were done late because both barca and city messed about until last minute which meant we brought late and left player like mertsacker and arteta little time to settle and get used to playing with their team mates. this put us way out of the epl and we did well to recover and finish third and guarantee the extra revenue from champions league football. Lets be realistic arsene knows affelay is available and that Ganso is available now Ganso is price around 30 million Affelay is around 6 million euro’s which one would you have knowing your financial status would you get. I know both would be nice but please be realistic. and if affellay was brought in would this cause RVP to rethink as his best friend was entering club you never know lol.

  6. JB212 says:

    It’s simple what Wenger and the board must do. Sit in the board room and start a continuous chain of slapping each other in the face.

    There’s a very small group of players currently at the club that I believe are worthy of being in our top earners bracket:

    Kosicelny, Mertesacker, Vermaelen, Sagna, Arteta, Song.

    Then there’s a marginally bigger group of players who I believe are in between squad players and players on the way into breaking into the top earner’s bracket:

    Szczesny, Gibbs, Santos, Ramsey, Wilshere, Rosicky, Arshavin, Walcott, Giroud, Podolski, Arshavin, Gervinho.

    Young players who are trying to break into the bracket above:

    Chamberlain, Coquelin, Frimpong, Miyaichi, Miquel, Afobe, Jenkinson.

    Youth Players who shouldn’t be getting above £2,500 a week no matter how good they are.

    New additions to the squad should be players only able to go straight into the top bracket and be worthy of it. e.g.

    Sneijder, Huntelaar

    Additions to fit in the bracket below would be:

    Players such as: Sakho, Ganso and a wide playmaker like Belhanda or someone in that mould.

    Diaby, Vela, Chamakh, Park, Djourou, Squillaci, Bendtner, van Persie are players I don’t expect/want to be at the team next season.

  7. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks for the post GiE.

    Rasp, you know i cant let you get away with that. You said we average £15 million loss per year on football. GiE mentions 2010/11, the only year we made a loss, and it was just over £4 million. The preceding 3 years was profit.

  8. goonermichael says:

    You tell em Terry

  9. goonermichael says:

    shitty’s wages are 110% of turnover. Even the other mancsum can’t do that.

  10. Rasp says:

    Hi TMHT, you don’t have to let me get away with anything.

    A guy who is an accountant and spends a lot of time pawing over the club’s accounts was the one who said we average about a £13m loss anually were it not for profit on player sales.

    I don’t know how to contact him, but if I do. I;ll put you in touch. Several people made the point you make but he explained why that is not the case – unfortunately I can’t remember his answer but it convinced everyone who thought as you do,.

  11. Rasp says:

    As GiE says in the post (and I said in mine) it will only be this way for the next 2 years, after that the new TV money anbd renegotiated sponsorship deals will swell the coffers – although in the case of the TV money, it will also benefit everyone else.

    The question we should be asking is, are we being aggressive (ambitious if you like) enough in this 2 year period? The fact that we have stored away a fund as a buffer to compensate for possible failure to get CL suggests that we are still going to be conservative in our outlook.

  12. Rasp says:

    Hi richard,

    It would appear that Afellay for £6m would be a ‘no brainer’.

    He had a lot of time out last season through injury (out for 7 months with an anterior cruciate ligament injury) – but that has never stopped AW in the past …. so why do I think it is unlikely to happen?

  13. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Fair enough Rasp. I would be interested to hear this guys explaination because i admit i cant see it. I agree with GiE for 2011, and using the same accounting principles the precceding 3 years are profit.

  14. Rasp says:

    Thanks Terry, I will try to get to the bottom of it. Being an accountant he costed in amortisation and all those imponderables that us mere mortals don’t understand – but those types of figures would also be shown in the club’s accounts I presume.

  15. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Rasp, tell you what. When i burn the clubs financial statements to celebrate the new kick off, i will say a prayer for us both. hahaha.

  16. Gooner In Exile says:

    Afternoon all, busy day in blogosphere…everyone must be revelling in the afterglow of yesterdays trophy win.

    Re footballing profits i put some numbers together over the last 7 years. I’ll be back.

  17. Rasp says:

    Good plan TMHT 😆

    Buying any player is a calculated risk. When the manager gets it wrong he’s an idiot and when he gets it right he’s a genius.

    I could argue that the £10m spent on Arteta returned a £25m profit in the first year because without him we wouldn’t have qualified for the CL … if only it were that simple 🙄

  18. Gooner In Exile says:

    The figures are £’000s and based on pre tax profits.

    Year Total Profit Property Profits Football Profits Transfer Profits Football Profits without Player Sales
    2004 10,577 15,249 (4,672) 2,282 (6,954)
    2005 19,265 10,396 8,869 2,894 5,975
    2006 15,885 (885) 16,770 19,150 (2,380)
    2007 5,573 6,117 (544) 18,467 (19,011)
    2008 36,668 (3,031) 39,699 26,458 13,241
    2009 45,512 5,578 39,934 23,177 16,757
    2010 55,968 11,187 44,781 38,137 6,644
    2011 14,776 12,564 2,212 6,256 (4,044)
  19. goonermichael says:

    The problem Wenger has with a lot of people Rasp is that when he makes a mistake he’s an idiot and when he gets it right he’s an idiot becuase richer clubs come sniffing. It doesn’t matter which way you look at it if a club can spend 110% of turnover on wages we can’t compete financially.

  20. goonermichael says:

    GIE thanks for the post and it’s interesting but I can’t take it in. If I could do a diagram of a hairdresser’s brain and a normal persons brain I’d be avle to show you why 🙂

  21. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    GiE, thats the figures ive got to.

    gm, spot on. Thats what the man has to deal with.

  22. Rasp says:

    I agree gm and I’ve never said any differently.

    All it would take is one more big spending billionnaire to buy a PL club and our chances of CL will be halved …. luckily there aren’t too many out there at the moment.

    But …. just imagine if Usmanov had bought into Everton and not Arsenal … that’s exactly where we’d find ourselves

  23. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    just one more thing on the figures posted by GiE and then i promise i will stop. the reason for the large 2007 loss was because of an exceptional item. In that year the club refinanced its loans and had to pay £20 million for the privlege. Loan interest and charges form part of the footballing profits posted by GiE.

  24. goonermichael says:

    Rasp
    Why didn’t he buy into Everton? It must have been Dein. I think Dein is still around.

    Abramovitch bought the chavs apparently because the spuds were greedy and wanted too much, he thought Arsenal was a gamble because of the new stadium and the mancs were already too big with much less potential for growth.

    Does anyone know anything abouit the new owners of forest?

  25. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    gm, thats one thing i am grateful for, that the Russian didnt buy Totnumb. I dont think i could have handled it. Would have been the life of a hermit for me. The himalayers, a goat, and a beetroot been my only company.

  26. goonermichael says:

    I think you mean Himalayas. Himalayers is a men’s haircut 🙂

  27. nnamdi says:

    Good artical,keep it up,gooners till I die.

  28. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    hahaha, what does a himalayers look like?

  29. goonermichael says:

    I just made it uo but Brian Connoly from the sweet is how I’d do it

  30. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    I want one….Block Buster, hahaha

  31. richie says:

    @GIE great piece! whats to disagree with? Those are the facts as we know them! We’ve got a bus load of fans who can’t see the wood for the tree’s they are the simpletons who scream “Spend some F’in money” but they are most probably living in a council flat with rent arrears, and a crippling credit card bill or they have a court re-possession order because they’ve got morgage arrears resulting from a 100%er that they should never have taken out. (Or more rightly never been given in the first place). I’m not by any stretch of the imagination down playing the work of our illustrious accountants, but anyone looking at the company’s figures with a note pad pencil and a calculator can work out that since the new stadium we’ve been crossing a financial canyon by way of a tightrope with most of our family and kids clinging to our backs.

    @Rasp11:34 great point about trying to have a clause written in re-contract extensions and loyalty bonus’s but can you imagine trying to get a player to sign an extension like that? The players leeches sorry I mean agents (employing both solicitors and accountants) would be wriggling like eels on a line. I like the idea well enough but I’m not sure it would be workable. Here’s hoping a smart brief could-can write in such a provision for the future acceptable to all party’s.

  32. Gooner In Exile says:

    That is an interesting theory by Rasp. There are clauses we know that guarantee players contract extensions if they make a number of appearances (this apparently why Djourou got a new deal) but I hope there is nothing that suggest improved terms too.

    I’ve often thought that rather than signing on fees and loyalty bonuses there should be a big fat cheque due after the contract is seen out. And by seen out I mean to the contracts end, they can have a slice of their transfer fee if we decide to sell them.

    Problem is other clubs won’t follow it and we will be disadvantaged again.

  33. richie says:

    @JB212 Is it cold in Outer Mongolia? Or should I put this another way? Knock knock Hello! is anybody in? Your wish list isn’t even funny. Reality check. Any young prospect coming through our academy has to paid well or they’ll leave. We’ve got the chav’s and especially the Tiny Totts siting on our doorstep dying to snatch one of our wonder kids as payback for Sol or in the chavs case coz they can.They’ll offer them more than 2.5K weekly just to annoy us. Reading between your lines I think you want to turn the clock back to a golden age before bosman and player power. If only!!

  34. tomstoned says:

    richie what gives you the right ??….simpletons.??.who are you..besides from being the perfect Gooner ??..what a crap comment..
    im one of those simpletons….as you call em…but i can assure you im not on welfare neither do i live in a council flat ;..
    spend some f’ckin money…well in my world its called reinvestment a football club is not expected to make money but to balance it out,that we’re not capable of competeing with the likes of citeh and chelski and foreign clubs like PSG etc..that i think all Gooners accept…
    but having to rely on selling our best players to be in balance and make profit well thats not very smart either….
    look at the members of Our board…lifetime Gooners eh..what happened they got payed a sh’tload of money for they shares…did they reinvest in The Arsenal ??..no of course they didnt…still they proclaim to be the best of Gooners and only looking out for Our Beloved Arsenal…yeah sure !!
    Gooner in Excile good post but not very objective but of course it represents your opinion,and thats fine..
    this season will be the start of our true demise..im very worries that we seem to rely on players like Diaby,Walcott,Rosicky Gibbs,Wilshere,great players but injury prone.The WIlshere situation is special of course…but look at Ramsey..he’s still not back to full speed..
    if we avoid serious injuries…well im happy with Our squad even without rvp…are we going to fight for trophies..no of course but we might just nick fourth(ambition met)
    finally im not convinced that anything will change even when we’re debt free…the way we are run at the moment is the way kroenke runs all his business and sport franchises in the US…

  35. Gooner In Exile says:

    Tom maybe it does slant to my opinion, but I’m giving the opportunity with a budget of £142m to change the wage structure and the squad.

    The club balances it’s books presently, how do you suggest we spend that money better?

    It’s very easy to say X Y and Z are earning too much, but we need to get real about footballers expectations in the current climate…average players are earning more elsewhere. It’s harder to set wages of a young player who might turn into a star enough that when someone comes knocking we can hold on to them.

  36. richie says:

    @GIE1:55 Thats an excellent idea! A claus at the end of contract guaranting a bonus would act almost as the old testamonial game used to. The bonus could be increased with every additional extension. It makes sense but it would probably still require a degree of player loyalty to make it work.

  37. tomstoned says:

    GiE..
    the flat wage structure we have more or less followed should change and that is something that are being looked at..great 🙂
    the economic situation will continue to be difficult for fottball clubs all over Europe,so we’re at the moment stuck with not good enough players earning to much,and they wont be easy to get rid off…
    imo opinion we have to change the wage structure …like most clubs in Europe GiE..lets hope we do just that ! and it wouldnt hurt to admit that we failed..
    not sure but i think most Gooners agree and the anger comes from selling of Our best players and NOT reinvest the money…its quite simple..if people get the feeling that their club are being more or less robbed….people tend do not accept the real situation..only cure would be honesty…
    some of us knew all along that Wenger intended to buy young imporve their value and then sell the ones who didnt make the cut,things happened and it backfired…
    Gooners who are angry and say that Our Beloved Arsenal have been built down does have a good point GiE..even me think that Our club have been seen more as a business than a football team at times..
    last summer didnt help..letting our Team hang out to dry for the start of the season,but Wenger learned and invested quickly this season…
    my main argument for this is the obvious lack of talent when it comes to the gazidis type…but never be fouled he is acting on kroenkes orders…and for those who thinks silent stan is just that silent think again he doesnt say much..but he runs a tight ship..GiE look at his Sport franchises in Us…and ther you will se how The Arsena will be run in the future..not very promising..
    nope worrying times..and for us to be among the top four will be very very difficult this season…and even becoming fourth like spuds last season will not guarantee CL…i hate citeh…but i have a shitty feeling;) about them in CL this season..
    my highest wish…lets for once be able to keep a squad together for a number of years…in many ways that is the recipe for a great team !

  38. Gooner In Exile says:

    Tom the only way City winning the CL is a threat to the 4th place qualifier is if they fail to finish in the top 4 of the PL.

    The thing is we have reinvested the money, unfortunately it was need to cover the unplayables (Denilson, Arshavin, Bendtner, Squillacci etc). That £50m profit from sales of Cesc and Samir was spent in total on Santos, Arteta, BFG, Jenkinson, Ox and Gervinho…oh and Park (less said the better). All of whom played a part in us finishing 3rd last season.

    I think we have the makings of a very strong squad, i still don’t believe that we can compete with other clubs even if we pay a lot lower at the bottom end of our salaries.

    My guess is even a PL squad player at West Brom makes £10k a week. If we could put say ten players earning between £30-£50k down to £10k a week we might save £15.6m a year. RvP has already turned down £150k a week, Nasri is earning £170k a week at City, if we decided to pay the wages to these two the cost would be £10.4m a year, but then TV, Song and Sagna come knocking for more money as established players and the snowball starts.

    I just don’t think the money is in the pot to do what the fans would like.

  39. Red Arse says:

    Well done, GIE, 🙂

    You have encapsulated the situation very neatly, but I, again, have the feeling of deja vu.

    They say goldfish have very limited memory retention, and that seems to apply to some fans, too.

    I went thru the substantial property sale (profits), the player sale (profits) and their beneficial impact on the available group profits to May 2011.
    I also remarked on the adverse effects on cashflow and group profits when the reduction in property sales, which now have a finite future, or if the player purchases exceed sales by say £15m p.a., all kick in.
    This reduction in profits will need to be compensated by a substantial increase in commercial revenue, which will also include the revenue from an increase in ticket sales, to compensate for this hit on profits.

    So I won’t repeat myself!! 🙄

    Your repeated comments about the self sustaining financial model and your opposition to the shareholders (particularly Usmanov) taking a dividend on their investment seems to be a contradiction in terms.

    Placing money on deposit in a bank or investing in a business is normally done in the expectation of a return on that investment.

    How can a sustainable financial model exclude a reasonable return on investment in the business?

    Any budget, for either a small or a large business, has to include proper provision for all reasonable expenditure, or outgoings otherwise it is, de facto, not a sustainable financial model if it does not have sufficient profits to pay out a dividend to shareholders, as it simply relies on the goodwill of the owner/shareholders to forego the dividend they could reasonably expect in any other business.

    Outside of the footie world this would simply not be acceptable.

    Good Post, that I am in agreement with, but which you could probably run again next Sunday and get much the same responses! 🙂 (including mine!!) 🙂

  40. tomstoned says:

    your right abut citeh GiE..my mistake..still have the shitty feeling about then thoough 😉
    the big question then reminds where have our money gone ??paying off the Emirates..??far more quickly than needed some say..
    and how come the board didnt reinvest some of the money they got paid for their shares ??

    its a messy situation,the kroenkes love for The Arsenal does not help..
    but agreed the money have vanished….
    i think for Gooners to reunite..we need a new start,but if that includes kroenkes way or running sport franchises it will never happen…that fellah is getting off far to easy…just as gazidis..look at pspuds how on earth do they manage to do what they are doing..including keeping players..
    bring Dein back…please…and if that means Usmanov too well im in

  41. richie says:

    @TomStoned What gives me the right is I can read. Kroenke might not be perfect but he bought 66% of Arsenals shares, that translates into a substantial investment in Arsenal. Did you or I make a substantial investment in Arsenal? If you are one of those screaming “spend some money” then who’s money are you asking to spend? Its not your money that you want the board to spend its theirs! My point was that only a simpleton spends money they don’t have! Of course they the board made a load of money selling “their” shares to Kroenke but they bought those same shares in a time when others didn’t have the money to buy them and they took the risk with their own money and it paid off.

    Now Harry took the risk with someone else’s money at Portsmouth and they won an FA Cup. On the back of that Harry got a move to a “bigger”? club and Portsmouth well they are in league 1 (two divisions) lower than when big spending Harry took over. In case its past you by the whole world is still in the grip of a finacial storm. I want the club I’ve consciously supported for 47 years to be run on a prudent basis up and until that financial storm goes away, and the Arsenal as a club can afford to spend the money it makes. Not spend on a credit card. We ain’t got a sugar daddy! (Get over it). Abromovich came by his money easily because his mate Putin gave him an oil company, so he spends and loses money easily. The Shieks inherited their money so as with Roman they came by it easily, and can afford a play thing that loses bundles.

    Its simple if you scream “spend spend spend” then you are financially irresponsible. If you wanna be irresponsible with your own finances good luck but don’t ask for those running our club to behave like cowboys. Reinvestment is possible if you have financial stability, stability doesn’t come from running up debts. I come from a council estate background and I’m proud of my Avenal road roots! but the reality of living in a council estate taught me there’s no such thing as a free lunch, you lend money from someone and don’t pay it back there are consequences. There are those who think its fine to live their lives on money they don’t have. My point was its normally those types that don’t see anything wrong with wanting Arsenal to be in debt.

  42. Gooner In Exile says:

    RA in honesty I started this post in the immediate aftermath of RvP, I finished it last night due to the emptiness of cupboard, and I was well aware that certain elements had been covered, I actually cut out quite a few swathes of financial data that either I had used in the last week or others like you had put in print. And I was fully aware this a done to death subject and I just want to get on with the football season!

    I think what I was asking readers to do is actually plan it themselves, obviously the response to this question is normally “that’s what Wenger and Gazidis get paid to do”. But I challenge most supporters who request the extra wages to plan in as careful and detailed way around our recent financial requirements.

    But here’s the thing I wouldn’t oppose a dividend, what I am opposed to is fans who say Usmanov is the saviour and blaming the current owners directors for making millions out of the club. As in life I don’t want to be in debt to someone for something I can’t place a physical claim to. Buying a car on loan or a house is okay, using loans or credit cards to supplement daily living expenses is foolish. Change car to player and house to stadium, but living expenses are the wages and that is where I respect the clubs decision.

    Tom the benefit of repaying some of the debt early is probably about £10-15m per year in interest savings. Ask any ManUre fan currently about the risk of over borrowing.

  43. richie says:

    P.S. the money the share holders took out by selling to Kroenke was their own money they put in. As far as every accountant is concerned and we have enough of those on this blog no share holder has been paid a dividend on their shares which is the point RA is making. In actual fact under normal business procedures they would be entitiled to dividends i.e. they should be profiting from their investments but no dividend has been paid out. In simple terms the board ain’t stealing the profits from player sales, player sales are helping to keep Arsenal as a company going.

  44. tomstoned says:

    richie yes of course and here we stand…some Gooners have been tricked onto believing Our Beloved Arsenal are nothing more than a financial institution….imo we’re a Football Club…you easily forget the lies we have been fed…move to emirates makes us able to compete with the best,we have money to spend,if we sell cesc we’re not a big club anymore,nasri will never leave,and the funniest of em all..gazidis=this will be an exciting summer..yeah if selling your best player is what makes you tick(money)…
    answer me this…do you trust a board that got paid a healthy sum of money form their shares in what ?(yes Arsenal)and kept smiling all the way to the bank..not reinvesting a dime of it in their BIG love The Arsenal…perfect Gooners dont ya think ??
    get real….we are doing this the kroenke way ever since 07….no doubt about it..and while his property The Arsenal gets drained footballing wise it increases in value..he makes quite abit of money…
    GiE…you cant really compare with manure mate…and if you bought yourself a new house you know better than me that a well planned repaying schedule is the way to go,,re taxes ..to buy out a house sooner than you have to is never very clever…well at least if your not reinvesting the money again…
    and what really make me fume is how easily some Gooners are tricked into believing that kroenke is anything but a nightmare for Our Beloved Arsenal…look at his sport franchises in the US..is this what you lot want for The Arsenal…if..well then ok..we’re stuck..young teams ..not bad teams but never good enough to compete…what a boring future it would be..

    richie..still having a go at Gooners in the way you did is quite simply disgusting…what makes your opinions more worth than any other Gooner..but im happy for you richie being able to see financial prudence and gain…to be the measurement of a football club..great !

  45. Gooner In Exile says:

    Tom i think most would agree that if Fiszman had not been about to pass away there is no way the rest of the board would have sold out to Kroenke when they did.

    If someone came and offered me ridiculous money for the company i own tomorrow i guarantee you i will sell, you know what i wouldn’t do though, i wouldn’t continue to work for it, or sit on the board or help their transition.

    I’m not comparing with ManUre i am asking them what paying huge amounts of interest is like. Scary even for a club with the revenue streams that United generate that they are having to cut back on their expenditure. Because their owners sold out to the highest bidder, without a second thought on where the money was coming from and how it would affect the club going forward.

  46. tomstoned says:

    GiE speculations..but i tend to agree with you mate..
    that doesnt change the excisitng situation though…
    one could even blame Dein for being one of the five who really started the money misery(premier league)many people doesnt give Dein the credit he deserves..and the whole charade started imo when he was pushed out…that was a disaster for The Arsenal..

  47. Gooner In Exile says:

    Anderlecht highlights are up, or the full 45 if you are that way inclined.

  48. Red Arse says:

    Apologies, GIE,

    I did not make myself clear. I enjoyed your Post, unsurprisingly, it was well researched, clear and well explained.

    What I had a slight niggle about, and it was not important, was some of the responses.

    Clearly we believe the same things–surprise surprise.

  49. Red Arse says:

    Well said Richie!!

    Cannot fault a word of your comments. Sensible, intelligent and well typed!! Do you have your secretary (Mrs RIchie) working overtime? Lol

  50. Shard says:

    Great Post GiE,
    I find it maddening when people keep insisting on our wage structure being proof of the board and Wenger being incompetent idiots. There was a very good reason to pay the younger players higher wages. Keeping a team together in the period was essential, and that is about the only way we could do it. The time for that has passed and we can now look to restructure again. I always maintain that that young team would have won us the title in 08, and probably stayed together longer if not for circumstances outside Arsenal’s control. The height of our failure is to still be top 4. That is no failure at all. If we’d done a Liverpool, maybe fans would appreciate what we currently have.

  51. Shard says:

    tomstoned,

    I think the question is why you think it is alright for somebody to just give Arsenal their money? And why you think they will be so inclined?

    As for Kroenke getting richer with rise in share prices. well that is only the case if he sells. His record suggests that’s not what he aims to do. He’s never sold a single share in any of his sports teams. And if he does sell out, you’ll probably get the sugar daddy you seem to want.

    You cannot just look at Kroenke’s US sports teams as a simple comparision. Do you really know how US sports are structured? How things work? Most of Kroenke’s teams are in small markets, meaning they cannot compete with the big market teams. Yet all of those teams (bar one-and that was due to something like FFP) have improved since he took over. He doesn’t go for knee jerk decisions and he doesn’t aim for sudden miraculous improvements. Building a team takes time, and by all accounts, he’s willing to trust in the people who’s job it is to run the team. Arsenal cannot be compared to those teams because we are in the biggest market (London), have a brand new state of the art stadium, and have fans around the world, with an ever growing market to exploit. We’re bigger on the global stage than any of Kroenke’s other teams. The same model of operation as his other teams, offers Arsenal the chance for greater rewards. Slowly building our club is exactly what we need. Evolution, rather than revolution.

  52. evonne says:

    GiE – give it a break, it is a Sunday, you are going to be a Dad soon and you bombard us with uncomrehensible telephone numbers, gosh, some people!!
    I think yours is a very good post, but like GM I need a picture to understand it 🙂 I have two questions though – why do you think we will have lots of money in 2 years? And two – Did anybody answer you why someone should pay for our players rather than us, die hard supporters paying more for tickets?

  53. Gooner In Exile says:

    Richie i believe RA is calling you out on your post avoidance tactic 😀

    Cheers Shard

  54. Gooner In Exile says:

    Hi Evonne, sorry its not a great subject for hangover Sunday 😀

    Two years signals the end of our current kit deal, two years after that the stadium deal comes to an end.

    Both those deals can be renegotiated from their current meagre (in comparison to recent deals) levels. That could potentially be £15m uplift per season per deal.

  55. evonne says:

    GiE – cheers! The stadium deal meaning the naming right? surely we won’t change it again? The Ems sort of grew on me

  56. evonne says:

    GM is hangovered, I am just bit dim

  57. goonermichael says:

    Tom
    How do you feel about Dein? he’s made shitloads of money from his shares. Can’t see him reinvesting without a return if he became jabba’s proxy on the board.

  58. goonermichael says:

    I’m not hangovered evonne. I’m a hairdresser

  59. johnnie nyc says:

    GIE, Rasp, enjoyed the article and your comments.. i dont even try to get into those details, but on the big picture, im starting to look at it this way– we’ve seen what the sugar daddy/vulture clubs have done to arsene and arsenals hard work in development and patience and scouting… and this has been with just a couple clubs like city and chelsea…this problem is not going to go away, more and more psg’s and Malagas are coming– and they will look at koscielny, and jack, vermaelen and ox – any one of quality – with hungry eyes ….FFP i pray will be strong, but the more money bags buy in, the weaker it will be….it wont save us from these problems.. —-Now,-im not saying to join them and become predators, but having rich, MOTIVATED ownership to back us would not be bad in this environment..at least we could retain some players we’ve come to love and invested in.

  60. Shard says:

    GiE,
    Are you sure about the stadium naming rights up for renewal in 2016? I’ve always thought that the stadium is going to be called the Emirates till 2021.. ??

  61. tomstoned says:

    goonermichael..
    on the Dein matter i would have to agree with Wenger..it was a big loss for The Arsenal and Wenger himself mate..the man had visions..
    Shard..my point is only.i do not neither believ or trust the board to look out for Our Beloved Arsenal..believing that is borderline stupid imo…
    RA you are one hell of a Gooner :)..makes me think of well..ill leave it ..cheap shots…and rather silly disguised remarks..:)but heey..not very potent…

  62. dandan says:

    GIE an insightful and thoughtful article, it is sad really that the constant chorus from the spend minority continues to defy the logic that people like you, repeatadly lay before them, of the foolishness of such a policy.
    Tom of course is one of those who hop’s from blog to blog singing his constant song of betrayal and self-interest, pity really as no one would doubt his love of Arsenal.
    Richie Very nicely said sir thank you, You mirror my views precisely, the problem is of course debt has become fashionable and renamed “Credit Limit” and the culture has spread to all parts of our society from the treasury downwards.
    Therefore prudence as shown by the Arsenal board is viewed by the spenders as old fashioned, selfish and self-seeking. As some of the regulars on here have remarked in recent posts, we shall get our reward in the next couple of years and no doubt then be grateful for the professional way the club has been run.

  63. tomstoned says:

    DanDan…
    of course im a bloghopper ;)well not that much actually..but well thats not very important…im usually on this site http://www.gunners.no a site well worth a closer look ..but there as well there are diffferent views of just how The Arsenal are being run…not sure if the Norwegian mindset is very different from the English..but it may play a role in our opinions..we are about 6000 members and quite a few travels frequently to the Emirates…
    but i think we’re not that afraid of changes DanDan..

  64. Gooner In Exile says:

    Shard you are right 😳 2021 it is, the kit sponsorship is up soon though isn’t it? Both Nikes and Emirates. The biggie for now is the kit deal, Liverpools base deal is £20m per year with Warrior. Is there any big American brand as yet untapped into the PL market, or even a Russian one if Usmanov has his way?

  65. goonermichael says:

    GIE the spuds have done a deal with an American company

  66. goonermichael says:

    Looks a good site Tom

  67. tomstoned says:

    Thank You GoonerMichael…the site have come along quite nicely..not perfect yet, but we’re getting there :)our goal was solely to make a place for all Norwegian Gooners to gather and of course to try to improve The Arsenals support in Norway ..

  68. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    tom, the problem with you is that you always go on about peope have differing views but despite all your posts no one really knows what your views are. You blame the past board, you blame the current board, and i have no doubt you will blame any future board. For me personaly you talk total Bolloxs.

  69. dandan says:

    Tch Tch Terry, Why dont you say what you mean Mate 🙂

  70. tomstoned says:

    TMHT…thats just fine…not sure i rate your opinion very highly at times either…some Gooners seems to think that everyone should see it their way…and to be prompt, imho opinion i cant blame you for not getting the message across…dont change anything..keep wishing for better times and just let The Arsenal slowly sink into the abyss…
    i think that *over here*there isnt a gooner who thinks very highly of the kroenke situation…and instead of burying your head firmly into the sand and deny the situation..we tend to speak our mind…

  71. Herb'sArmy says:

    Nice one GiE, it’s a shame that financial matters has consumed football, and that a clubs’ wealth seems to have become more important than what the players produce on the park.

  72. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    fair enough tom. i thought you might come back at me more agressively, but you havnt so i respect you for that.

  73. tomstoned says:

    TMHT..i have one or two hick ups..but im usually respectfull i remember being rather foolish some time ago with a comment to DanDan..but i hope i sorted it out…im a stubborn s’n of a gun at times….and most of the time its about finding middle ground..in life and imo The Arsenal situation..i admire Wenger yet i think he was far more potent when Dein was about..and i know for a fact that loosing Dein was a big dossapointment for Wenger..therefore i have trouble understanding Gooners who now make a mockery of Dein yet supports Wenger dearly..

  74. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Nice one tom. Good luck with the site and get those numbers for Norwegian gooners growing.

  75. tomstoned says:

    Thx TMHT 🙂 ill try and i hope you will forgive me once and again having opinions that are far out in your opinion..ive always thought that different opinions will make us Gooners stronger..if and only if we respect eachother..and no worries when the season starts..ill be just as firm behind Our Team and every single players as you TMHT….

  76. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Were do you reckon we will finish this season tom ? i reckon were gona win it. hahahaha

  77. Gooner In Exile says:

    Thanks Herb

    Personally i don’t think financial health is a measure of football success, and relatively we are not that successful a company. We break even or thereabouts year on year. As RA said earlier no one invests in a company to not take anything out. Football clubs are different I guess often owned by wealthy fans.

    But fans can be a nightmare, witness Rangers, as can foreign investors Portsmouth and Blackburn. Thankfully we are not in either position.

    My hope is in a months time all we are talking about is football, thankfully the Olympics will give us a little respite from the gloom of no footy.

    But what this guarantees is we will be here next year to support, if it really was about financial health we would be in midtable now, the fans would still come, and the club could make a much larger profit with a much lower wage bill.

    What Arsenal has never been about as long as I have been a fan is paying out more than we make.

  78. Gooner In Exile says:

    F*** Me the world really has gone mad.

    Newcastle offered to pay part of Carrols £80k a week wages for a loan spell.

    3 things
    1) Andy Carrol is on £80k a week
    2) Andy Carrol is on £80k a week
    3) Andy Carrol is on £80k a week

    Wonder what Henderson and Adam are on, and Downing?

  79. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    Wow…this is what you knocked up ‘on request’ last night GiE.

    Legend !!!

  80. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    Actually I’m quite surprised that Carrol is ‘only’ on £80k per week. I know that would have been a massive hike from say the 10-20k he was on at Newcastle…but he must have one of the lowest wages to transfer fee ratios around…certainly in the £20m plus bracket.

    I’d always assumed the likes of Henderson to be getting around 60k…again purely because of the t’fer fee involved. Rumour was that Glen Johnson signed on at around 110-120k, having already been a big earner after his first move to Chelski

    Mad mad world

  81. Gooner In Exile says:

    Pod is saying the right things:

    “All I can say is Van Persie had an amazing record last season and hopefully there is a way he can stay with Arsenal.

    “It would be great to play with him, but obviously this is not in my control.”

    “The manager has a record getting Arsenal into the Champions League every season and his reputation in Germany and all over Europe is very strong.

    “What I like about him is his passion for attacking football. He aims to play with style and flair all the time.

    “Those are his principles and he’ll never compromise on them. Some people are disappointed with him, but they need to realise what a great coach they have.”

    “Arsenal have a quality squad and they should not aim to finish behind the rest or just settle for top four.

    “Champions League football is the minimum requirement at Arsenal, but we should aim higher.

    “For me, we have as good a chance as anyone in the Premier League. The key will be to start well and, unlike Manchester City or United, there will not be as much pressure on us.”

  82. TotAl says:

    Great piece of research and a very well composed post, GiE! 🙂

    You have taken the emotions out of the argument and presented us the bare facts. This might not be the sexiest of topics, but it had to be said and presented in the way you did. Chapeau my friend! 🙂

  83. Gooner In Exile says:

    Sharkey it had been inthe cupboard for a while, needed a little polishing to finish.

    I always looked at it the other way big fee = smaller wage (unless you’re Chelsea or City naturally). I figured that’s why RvP was doing what he was doing, that’s still for me big numbers for Liverpool to be paying even with no CL football it’s a big club with huge following so big opportunity to earn money away from the club with merchandise deals.

    Henderson on £60k a week and Johnson on £120k that’s huge money for a mid table club 🙂

  84. Gooner In Exile says:

    Cheers TA.

  85. Anyone ever seen their child’s band playing a gig in Hyde Park at the Hard Rock Calling Festival – well I did tonight. Very proud mummy 🙂

  86. Paul Simon was quite good too ………… 🙂

  87. RockyLives says:

    Hello everyone.

    Back from bear country. No bears. No signal either.

    Haven’t caught up with all the Posts and comments but will do so over the next couple of days.

    Peaches
    That must have been amazing! Especially with them being supported by Paul Simon and all 🙂

  88. goonermichael says:

    Fantastic Peaches. You should be proud too!!

  89. goonermichael says:

    I would have left before Paul Simon

  90. chas says:

    A fine post, GIE.

    What I’d like to know is;

    Why didn’t we spend that extra few quid to buy Schwarzer?

    For the last few seasons, why have we not bought the two or three ready-mades who would have made us into a title-winning team?

    Why do we pay the highest ticket prices in the world and then shop at Lidl?

    Why are we now funding enough deadwood to build a new ark for Noah? (Although, admittedly, this might be useful if the wet summer continues)

    Why do we continue with a moustachioed septic who only wants to bleed the club dry when we have a philanthropic, Usbeki avenging angel of death waiting in the wings to open his wallet for the good of the club?

    Why did we miss out on CR7, Yaya, Dogbra, Samba, Phil Jones and Mata for the sake of a couple of million pounds more?

    How can we continue with the current policy whereby the height of our ambition is 4th place and we only manage to achieve that because the spuds, dippers and chavs keep performing so poorly each year?

    These are the sort of questions you could be answering instead of wasting your time explaining why we can’t afford to pay Na$ri 170,000 pounds for 7 days “work”.

  91. richie says:

    Tom most of us held DD in high regard when he worked hand in glove with Arsene. But after he attemped a failed “coup de etat” with himself installed as chairman by instigating a Kroenke buy out without first informing the other members of the board he dropped down somewhat, in most peoples estimation. Then after his fall from grace, his actions became almost anti Arsenal. His revenge for being kicked off the board wasn’t to try to continue to work with the man he’d brought in (Kroenke). It was to try to stage another coup with “red & white holdings” and Jabba. Dein has unfortunately tarnished himself as far as any future Arsenal deals are concerned.

  92. VCC says:

    Chas 5:08. That’s the same drum I have been banging on for yonks. You put it admirably = “shopping at Lidl” spot on. We repeatedly say year after year “if only we had paid that little extra”, on two or three players. This would not have made us go to the wall, and just might have made the difference and enabled us to win something, “if only”.

    Richie. My sources tell me DD will not venture back to the club as long as Mr. Wood remains.

  93. Gooner In Exile says:

    Chas that’s about everything that winds me up.

    Peaches very cool indeed. I love a good festival. I have seen that Glastonbury tickets are on sale 13 October for next summer. According to Mrs Exile 6months old will be too young to take a child, I was hoping to start them early 🙂 In other news apparently the baby can now hear, so at least once a day I lean over to the belly of Mrs Exile and sing “Oh to be a Gooner”.

    I would have loved to see Paul Simon, last time I did Glastonbury I had to see Neil Young, The Specials and Madness three lifetime music ambitions fulfilled in one day. Paul McCartney is next on my hit list of godfathers of music.

    Welcome back Rocky.

  94. VCC says:

    GiE. I have plenty of Arsenal songs I could send you. Perhaps you can have them blasting out all day (just to make sure).

  95. Gooner In Exile says:

    Sounds good VCC especially when I’m not around for most of the day, will worry that the in laws come round and start singing “On the Ball City”

  96. chas says:

    I’d not seen this before.
    Featuring all the classics;

    This is the best team he’s ever played for.
    We want you to stay.
    Your season’s over.

  97. chas says:

    A little clip from today’s ‘full squad back in training’ session at Colney.

    ….and a little tune for you, VCC.

  98. chas says:

  99. VCC says:

    Chas, its a shame they never carried on filming. I was at that game. Fantastic feeling.

  100. chas says:

  101. VCC says:

    http://twitpic.com/a87csc/full

    Great stuff Chas. I have all those songs except Harry’s one.

    When this picture was taken we were all singing

    Is there a fire drill, Is there a fire drill, is there a fire drill. Will last with me forever.

    hehehehehhhehehhhe

    I play those songs nearly every day. My wife will be filing for a divorce soon Im sure. hahahaha

  102. chas – why did I have to watch that scummy video 😉

  103. chas says:

    peaches,
    ….because you know what comes next makes it all the funnier. 🙂

    (like that one of them in the bricklayers after the 2nd goal)

  104. VCC says:

    chas i have not seen the one in the bricklayers, can you re post please.

  105. chas says:

    Ah, couldn’t find it at first as it wasn’t in the Bricklayers!

  106. Rasp says:

    Morning all…..

    ….. New post …..

  107. richie says:

    @Tomstoned3:52 Who lied to you? Who fed us lies? Sorry mate but you missed the point of our move to the Emirates totally! Back in the day Man U ruled the roost in paying players top wages, we couldn’t compete with them because their gate receipts were almost double ours. A calculation was made that if we wanted to be able to attract and keep top players we had to increase our ground capacity. By that we’d be able to keep pace with Man U. We could’ve built the Emirates stadium for a lot less if we had stayed on our highbury site, all we’d have had to do was buy up houses that surrounded Highbury stadium. The powers that be said East Stand listed building you can’t touch it so we had to move.

    All good so far? Our plans were past and Ashburton Grove was started 1st buy the land, 2nd build stadium, 3rd develope Highbury and sell off the flats. Then 2 totally unexpected things happened.
    1st and biggest Abromovich arrives, which suddenly makes the very principal of our move redundent. Our aim was to stay in touch with the top but now with Roman the luney tune Oligarch’s arrival even after we’ve paid off our stadium debt totally we’ll never be able to pay our players what the Chelski boys are getting. Next up an economic shit storm hits the fan and our flats ain’t selling, and even when they do sell certainly not for the price envisaged.

    The reality of our current situation is that we as a club can’t compete with the Chavs or Money Citeh, no one can, but Man U not used to being 2nd when it comes to money buying power and paying top wages are trying to keep up and they are succeeding by getting further into debt. Personally I think the situation with the Glasiers at Manu’er will end in tears. Now at least the Glasiers are pro united even if they’ve milked Man U’s coffers. Now the Bod that some short sighted Gooners want to bring to the top table is also pro Man U he a self confessed Red Devil. If some people think we’ve got problems because Kroenke is too conservative in his approach. Imagine Jabba the Uzz in control? Think the Glasiers but worse.

  108. richie says:

    @Rasp et all can anyone tell me why Afellay’s priced at £6M? Is it just because of his injury? Because why hasn’t anyone snapped him up?

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