Newcastle v Arsenal – Match report

Arsenal came to Toon to play and play they did.

The first half was predictably all Arsenal, controlled possession and lots of through balls for Gervinho and Arshavin to chase. Gervinho did extremely well on his Premier League debut and there is much more to come from the talented Ivorian. Ramsey busied himself about in the middle of the park and did very well, the midfield trio of Ramsey, Song and Rosicky functioned well and snuffed out any attacking threat from Barton, Tiote and Cabaye whilst piling more pressure on Newcastle.

Unfortunately Robin Van Persie was isolated up front and rarely received the ball in a goal-scoring position. Gervinho worked tirelessly trying to create opportunities but none came to fruition. As the first half came to a close with the score at 0:0 it was deja-vu, the problem with the 4-3-3 is this, if they don’t have to come at you and can afford to keep at least 5 players at the back then it just doesn’t work, because the target man is man-marked leaving a minimum of 4 players to handle the runners.

Jonas Guttierez didn’t shower himself in glory, I saw him on two occasions wave an imaginary card at the ref to get players booked. I thought that was a yellow card offence in itself?

We weren’t clever enough at times and showed a lack of sharpness and guile, Ramsey made some excellent runs which were missed for other options. Our defence coped well with the physical presence of Demba Ba and Ameobi and finished the first half with plenty of credit. Sczcesny had a very mature, consistent performance with some excellent catching and punching whilst under pressure. I thought he particularly dealt with high balls well which always makes the defence feel more relaxed and his ball distribution is much improved.

Out we came for the second half, at this point it all still felt good. I felt the team blend was good and if we got a goal (with the likely source being Gervinho/RvP combo) then I thought we were capable of scoring a few. Rosicky again started pulling the strings and we carried on as if the half time break never happened. Again plenty of pressure and a RvP free-kick that threatened the goal but just skimmed the top of the net with Krul floundering.

Arshavin came off on 60 with Theo coming on to try and stretch the game. Theo looked a bit leggy, off the pace and laboured. I would have saved him for later in the game. A bit of controversy as Song stamped on Barton, which infuriated the Newcastle player as it was missed by all the officials. Currently I wouldn’t be upset if half of the Arsenal faithful marched all over his stupid face, but it was not to be.

Barton, not to be ignored however managed to get into the limelight, never one to shirk his responsibility as a role-model and professional he decided to get involved when Gervinho, who went down in the penalty area after slight contact with Tiote. Barton charged across the pitch, grabbed Gervinho by his shirt and hauled him to his feet. Far be it from me to defend Gervinho, but if someone did that to me I’d headbutt them. Barton looked incensed that Gervinho went down and continued to hold him. A ruck of players ensued with players entering the fray to seperate the players and Gervinho foolishly tapped (only a tap, not a slap or punch) Barton on the head and he went down like he’d been hit by a rock. So, don’t mess with Gervinho, he’s really hard as nails.

Gervinho got sent off, Barton got a yellow. Worst decision ever. I agree Gerv had to go, for the tap as it does count as raised hands, but surely Barton’s handling of the player, his aggressive attitude deserved a red also? – Referee Peter Walton take note: Have a look at the replay son, if you think it’s OK to manhandle a player up from the floor by the shirt then you need to be refereeing somewhere else.

Newcastle tried to press home the man advantage, but the defence held firm with some excellent work from Koscielny and Vermaelen. Gibbo and Sagna both did extremely well also.

We played a containing game after the sending off, looking to break with the pace of Theo and Gibbo but Theo really looked slow today. An odd thing to say and I know he’s coming back from injury but he looked really slow. Frimpong came on for Rosicky in the 84th minute and shored up the midfield further and pushed Gibbo to left midfield. We didn’t really carve any more opportunities in the match and it headed into injury time. Djourou was brought on for Ramsey and literally his first touch robbed a Newcastle player and he bombed forward, charging across the halfway line, it was 3v1 for Arsenal as Gibb0 and Theo ran either side of the beleagured Newcastle defender, Djourou stumbled and half stabbed the ball wide for Theo but he had to check his run and it allowed Newcastle to recover. A short burst of pace failed to beat his man and the opportunity was lost.

There was just enough time for RvP to have a snap-shot at goal which went well wide.

All in all it felt like the end of last season. The Arsenal fans were baying “Spend some F#*#@n Money” and it finished goalless.

There are plenty of positives to take from this match;

1) We defended extremely well at both corners and set pieces. The zonal marking system looked very effective.

2) Our midfield trio looked very good, I can’t fault their performance and I didn’t once think that I wished we had Cesc in there, I thought in particular Song did a great job covering the defence, whilst Rosicky kept pulling strings. Sometimes we needed a bit more guile, but it is still the first game of the season and there is a lot more to come from our midfield if this performance is something to go by.

3) Gervinho is going to be awesome. I hope his red card is turned into a yellow, because I feel it is very harsh considering the provocation and the agressive manner in which Barton grabbed him. I would have done far worse in Gervinho’s shoes and Barton would still be looking for his front teeth now.

4) Sczcesny looked every bit our number 1 keeper. He was very focussed, confident and tidy today.

There is much to look forward to with Udinese on the 16th (tuesday).

Come on you Gooners!!

134 Responses to Newcastle v Arsenal – Match report

  1. Big Raddy says:

    just a carry over from this mornings discussion ….

    Morning All.

    Kelsey. There is always disharmony when a new powerful influence enters the workplace. I am not sure where the assumption that AW is an egoist comes from- yes, he is confident in his abilities and never shirks from the publicity part of his job, but a big ego? Not in my opinion. That he worked so well with Dein is evidence of his ability to play the supporting role in away from pitch issues.

    My fears lie in the unfortunate statistic of 3 wins in 12. There is a lack of confidence in the team which I believe stems from the transfer uncertainties. But why oh why can’t our forwards and MF’s shoot on target. The Rosicky miss early in the game was symptomatic of this malaise.

    We are becoming “boring Arsenal” – there were times when I completely lost interest in the game which is not a good sign .

    BTW I agree this will be AW’s last season.

    Now to read the post!

  2. Well done WG, your match report has put things into perspective. In the first 15 minutes we were very good and had we scored early the confidence levels would have rocketed.

    Your point about Theo being slow is well made, I was surprised at how leggy he looked. There were a couple of occasions when I expected him to burst past a player and he didn’t seem to move.

    Rosicky, for all his talent, can’t be the answer in the midfield – hasn’t played for practically three years. Still, I agree that he did play very well. He definitely needs to find his shooting boots.

  3. Avz says:

    Morning guys. Im from South Africa. I believe that we will always have the class that makes Arsenal the club it is no matter who stays or leaves. Fans are split, emotional and angry. Change should be embraced across the spectrum TOP to BOTTOM. AFC has brought much happiness to my life and I hope that continues. Keep d faith Gooners.

  4. Rasp says:


    Thanks for penning such an encouraging match report WG.

    The performance of the defence is main highlight for me – they never really looked troubled … unfortunately neither did the toon defence. Roll on the end of August and at least an end to the uncertainty.

    We need a player who can raise the spirits. He may be in the squad already or he may be in the pipeline. Without some inspirational figures on the pitch we will be in for a long season and the Wenger era will fizzle out instead of ending on a high which will be a great shame.

  5. WiganGooner says:


    But why can’t Rosicky be the answer? He’s an excellent footballer and he’s got good vision, if he can get more games I think he can really show his class.

    That said however, I wouldn’t pick Tomas over young Jack.


  6. Big Raddy says:

    WG. Fine report. We could easily have taken the 3 points had JD managed to stay on his feet and deliver a telling pass to Theo, as you say, we had a 3:1.

    Avz. Welcome. I cannot agree about changes being made top to bottom. I am confused by your comment.

  7. Rasp says:

    On a separate point, did anyone else notice how many long balls we played – mostly from the defenders. It looked like they were frustrated at the lack of penetration through the midfield and were resorting to route one, but unfortunately in the main, the passes did not have the required accuracy or the recipient was left without support and lost possession.

  8. Avz says:

    @bigraddy thanks for the welcome. Awesome site. My comment on change is based on pure rumour n gossip really. Wenger might be off soon etc. Just saying whether we lose a manager or player we should just keep faith.

  9. Avz says:

    And yes I am a girl 🙂

  10. Hornsey Boys says:

    Wenger out!

  11. Welcome Avz – another girl 🙂

    @WG – the question mark over Rosicky. He started only a handful of games last season, he could have given Jack a rest if AW felt he was up to it – he was only used sparingly last season and on many occasions he was disappointing. On the other hand he has looked good in pre-season and yesterday he worked well with Rambo and Song. I don’t know the answer I just feel it’s a recipe for disaster for AW to suddenly think Rosicky is it.

  12. Red Arse says:

    WG, 🙂

    Another sensible, clear summation of the events especially the Barton stuff. thank you! 🙂

  13. JollyMike says:

    One thing that haven’t been discussed enough is that we should have had a penalty. After Gerv dived the play went on. Baboon grabbed him and started a fight. It was clearly inside. Must be a penalty! Baboon started it. What’s your view on this?

  14. pat says:

    Wenger In!

  15. If bartons yellow card was for his initial handling of Gervinho then it should also have been a penalty as it was in the box. There is no way Gervs card will be changed. I think Song will be banned too. I hope he’s going to play Campbell this season he can take a free kick which unfortunately Robin can’t.

  16. Just typed all that and notice Jolly Mike has already said it.

  17. Red Arse says:

    Reading the late evening and early morning comments, I was struck by their emotive and hotly reactive nature.

    Perfectly understandable, but sometimes immediately after a game is not the time to try and objectively discuss the events.

    Makes good and entertaining reading tho’! 🙂

    Can I make an observation? It seemed to me that some of the cross discussions centred around different understanding of the terms used, by each blogger.

    For example, one of the discussion threads revolved around the use of the word ‘negotiation’.
    What – negotiation – does not mean is ‘to mislead or misdirect’ either of the parties involved. Neither should it mean ‘getting one over’ on the other party, or forcing them to do something they do not wish to do.

    What – negotiation – should mean; is — the process of reaching an agreement or settlement with another party by compromise, such that both parties are content with the outcome.

    Is AW simply discussing the transfers of Cesc and Nari to reach an agreeable compromise on the value of these sales, which would constitute ‘negotiations’.
    Or has he been forced to make the best of an unwanted situation, which by definition is not a negotiation, and is thereby dragging his heels and being as awkward as possible, leading to the contradictory nature of the comments he is making to the media.

    Without agreement between bloggers as to what each means by the term used, disagreement inevitably will follow.

    I think this type of misunderstanding drives a lot of the unnecessary ill feeling between the so called ‘Doomers’ and the ‘Optimists’.

  18. WiganGooner says:

    Agree with the sentiment regarding the penalty, or at the very least a drop ball. Barton had to have been booked for his initial manhandling of Gervinho, which was in the box. Therefore at least it should have been a drop-ball.

    Bizarre referreeing.


  19. GunnerPete says:

    Great honest article. But…..we are talking Arsenal here, and only if we change our name for a week to man U /Chelski or Liverpool will the FA use their sense and reduce the card for Gervihno!

    Bartons violent agression in the area whilst play was continuing should have meant a penalty…and a red card for him. But, this is a ref and FA with an agenda against AFC..and to him / them you can add a further 4 refs we all know who will take every opportunity to penalise our team. Since when has a self defensive tap with 3 fingers been considered a sending off offence? Since when has a two handed attack , inside the penalty area not been a penalty and a red card?

    I also think the film of the incident should be studied by the ref and FA to look at the actions of Taylor, who also man handled Gervihno and lied about a punch and olong with two other called for a red card….all should be red carded retrospectively.

    Gervihno now knows what it is like to be a Gunner…..(A) he has learned that you will never get the same treatment that other teams get especially Manure & Chelski. (B) you must leard to be bullied and fouled and not to defend yourself if you wear Arsenal colours….the officials will never see anthing until you fight back.

    Finally.Gervihno.please note.if you get mashed like that again, and you will, if you have to fight back ,at least do as the writer said and get sent off for a headbutt!

    Newcastle were the same old Pardew crap that he is noted for and they will hover near the bottom all year….AFC will surprise quite a few but will miss Gervihno & Song for 3 very important games. Frimpong will cover for Song but who else have we got?

  20. あかい けつ げんきですか :)

  21. Red Arse says:

    私は元気です、ありがとう GM!! 🙂

  22. That’s good to hear RA. I’m going to Japan soon.

  23. Red Arse says:


    We all know that it is pointless, other than for letting off steam, to discuss the refereeing standards and the moral standards of the media, but here goes. 🙂

    Having watched the ‘incident’ several times, what strikes me (no pun intended) is that ,with all the hands raised to throats, grabbing, pushing and pulling, if all the players touched by another player, from either side, had fallen to the ground as if mock pole-axed, like Bastard Barton, we would have seen 10 prostrate players all seemingly unconscious.

    I think Arsenal should give all our players a crash course in synchronized collapsing!
    For the advanced course, they should be taught to regularly collapse in unison, when in the proximity of Bastard Barton, on the dual grounds of being struck/overcome by his stench and by his ugly mug.

    Extra moral points should be given for the elegance of the display. 🙂

  24. Red Arse says:


    すべてmamasansには敬意を与える。 🙂 🙂

  25. Red Arse says:

    I wish I was going back to Japan too, GM. I loved it there. Osaka in the Spring with the cherry blossoms falling or Tokyo anytime! 🙂

    But I doubt I will get the chance again, other than for a holiday, which is unlikely in my current condition, unfortunately.

    Enjoy! 🙂

  26. Red Arse says:

    OK, too much of me. 🙂 Laters.

  27. WiganGooner says:

    Good idea RA, got to be worth a mention in an email to Arsene 🙂


  28. I’ll have to watch at least 1 game in the footnik bar in Tokyo RA. It’s weird watching in a bar so far away and in a different time zone. I suppose that’s normal for all the gooners not in the UK.

  29. Red Arse says:

    It is still magical GM to be able to watch the boys from almost anywhere. One of the wierdest places (not magical but had to be done 🙂 ) was in a sports betting lounge in Las Vegas.

    Everyone betting on horse racing, baseball etc, etc and I asked for a giant screen to watch the Gunners.

    With my Yankee accent the Table Manager was non-plussed, and there were a few ‘tuts’ from some guys, but I had made sure to put a few bets on earlier and he arranged it.

    Beers lined up, bets placed, on came the boys and within 10 minutes there were about 50 Brits (not all Gooners) sitting around lapping it lap. One very pleased Manager, as well!

    Very wierd, but we won and everyone loved it! 🙂

  30. I watched us beat the mancs in Tokyo and a very camp looking japanese manc fan tried to be a “fooligan” after the match by throwing a bin into the bar and screaming in his very feminine voice. He was wearing what must gave been a 5 year old mancscum shirt with “smith” on the back. It was really funny. Even my wife and sister in law got excited by the win. My brother in law is a Japanese gooner.

  31. Red Arse says:

    GM, 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Did he politely bow afterwards? 🙂

    {Joking aside, I love the good manners of most Japanese, in public}

  32. harry says:

    Nice report WG………..

    My thoughts and comments……..

    1. Rasp: wasnt saying this morning that its is the fans fault but we can help by getting behind and giving them a chance, but i understand your response…….

    2. Defence looked good……

    3. Szczesny looked good and commanded his box well, came out for everything he could, distribution was ok compared to last season.

    4. Song was a fool, Bartons challenge, which no one has mentioned, on him was a nasty one and deserved a yellow, but Song’s reaction could have cost us……..Deserves a retrospective 1 game ban……….

    5. Gervinho was agressively man handled by Barton, but he raised his hands and struck out, Barton went down too easily and taylor indicated an elbow. Barton should have walked as well. That could have been the end of it, neither deserve a retrospective ban. Gervinhos red card can stand but no more punishment required (this has happened before)

    6. Van persie was out of sorts, he is our best player and needs to stay…….

    7. Walcott will realise his potential if we continually play him out of position and dont play to his strengths………….He is not as versatile as others but he can be devastating if used correctly……

    8. Rosicky isnt a replacement for Cesc, but he was our best player out there yesterday alongside G man.

    9. We do lack inspiration, I would still go and get Samba, Parker and another flair player to replace Cesc – so many to choose from: Gourcuff, Martin, Jadson, Goetze, erikssen, Willian, de rossi, marek hamsik, I think Ramsey will in the long run be the mainstay alongside Jack, but we need another body in there if we lose cesc and samir…….

    10. We didnt lose…………….

  33. Mik says:

    who was it last year that assaulted Chesney? Chesney was then booked for holding the ball while getting punched. Wasn’t it Newcastle as well?

    What a bunch of scumbags but Barton is the worst. Any fan who cried out for us to sign him should be deeply ashamed.

  34. neamman says:

    Any fan who cried out for us to sign him should be deeply ashamed.>>>

    Look how everyone defends Song no one says hes scum etc.. ..whose actions were as bad.. SXtamping on the leg is terrible.
    Barton brings pasion on the only concern would be if he disrupted the dressing room. But if we are talking on field only… sign him up. That being said.. his actions yesterday were terrible and he should get a retrospective red.. but I know he wont.

  35. Big Raddy says:

    Mik. Well said

    RA. I very much like the idea of a mass “fainting” by our lads. What could the ref do? Give a card to everyone?

    The fact was that Newcastle players were diving throughout the match (Barton was the worst offender). Walton didn’t stop it and so they continued.

    As to the sending off. If Walton didn’t give a penalty then he believed Gerv “simulated” – a yellow card offence. The slap another yellow – so maybe the red is justified but as two yellows. Barton’s is surely a red card offence – no worse than Diaby last season. And as has been said a penalty.

    Once again, the referee has cost us points at St James.

  36. Big Raddy says:

    neamman. No,no,no!

    You are right about Song but unlike Barton, Song doesn’t behave like that every time he goes onto the pitch.

    Are you in sunny Chang Mai?

  37. gunnern5 says:

    It’s been a long time since we could say that our defense was the best part of our game, even accepting that Newcastle were a very average team. I cant remember one moment when we were at risk of conceding, we even looked confident with set pieces.

    Unlike most opinions I was disappointed in Gervinho. While he showed some great moves and easily beat his defenders, he lacked poise when it counted the most – the final ball.
    He had most of the opportunities to shoot but instead of shooting he ran up the famous Arsenal blind alley – it’s been used so many times before – when will they learn that there’s no way out?

    Overall I’m not the least bit down on the team and felt that we played well in spite of losing our midfield play makers.

    My issue is that, even if we find some creative midfielders, I can’t see where the goals are going to come from.

  38. Gooner In Exile says:

    Afternoon all, good write up WG can now feel like I’ve watched the match.

    Can’t comment on Barton/Song or Gerv.

    As I mentioned last night fleetingly amongst a flurry of activity.

    We drew away from home, and we didn’t play great…..but how we all laughed off ManUre for their woeful play away from home last season? Away draws and wins at home gave them the trophy. All we need to do is make sure we don’t lose away.

    Also booing AW off the bus is out of order…do these idiots think that has any hope of achieving anything other than a subdued/nervous feeling in the dressing room pre match is a fool.

    A 0-0 draw is ok away from home. Liverpool drew 1-1 with Sunderland at home, anyone screaming club in crisis…..they spent how much over summer?

  39. harry says:

    @ Raddy with this comment of yours:

    “”””””As to the sending off. If Walton didn’t give a penalty then he believed Gerv “simulated” – a yellow card offence.”””””””

    Dont tell me you believe that? Collymore stated the same, there is 3 possibles not 2:

    1. Dive / simultation.
    2. Penalty.
    3. A coming togther / slight catch that doesnt warrant a penalty.

    Just because a penalty isnt given it does not automatically mean it is a dive……..

    By the way, he didnt dive, there was contact, did he make the most it? yeah probably, just like barton did………….was it a penalty, yes.

    @ GunnerN5: “”My issue is that, even if we find some creative midfielders, I can’t see where the goals are going to come from.””

    Exactly, yesterday showed me just why I believed that the defence wasnt necessarily the main issue, we need some better leadership, some inspiration and some goals………..

    Even with this squad minus 4 and 8 we will end up in the Top 4, add what we lack and we will push the top teams all the way…….

  40. neamman says:

    Hi BR

    I am in Canada for a few months and will be back in Asia in the new year. Yes Song isnt as consistently bad as barton, but Barton has passion and its something we appear to be missing. He certainly isnt my first choiuce.. but he is an option.

  41. irish gooner says:

    i wont complain with a point,,,the boys tried 100% and thats all i care about,,,,the ref as usual had a shocker,he shoul have booked barton for that haircut,,as always ,im backing this goup of players(insert 3 new signins here)100% ,,,,fuck the doom and gloomers,,,if we get relegated,,i will still love arsenal,,,trophies or no trophies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  42. neamman says:


    Big Raddy and I, and maybe a few others here, can remember the 60s when our trophyless drought extended 17 years. This is nothing!!! Damn..I can even remember when the spuds were better than us!!!!, I can EVEN remember the last time the spuds WON the league. We were crap then but as we sang in the 60s

    “WE’re gonna rise again!”
    “WE’re gonna rise again!”
    “WE’re gonna rise again!”

    and we did!!
    This is a bad patch but what AW has achieved is tremendous, building us a stadium and still keeping us competitive. I have no doubt that once again..we will rise to the very top of the EPL!!!!!

    Keep the faith!!!!!!

  43. dandan says:

    Nice one WG well done.

    One game and a thousand negatives what are we becomming, what did our Canadian friend call the rioters the entitled generation? Seems to me that would aptly describe much of Arsenal’s support today. A read of some wise words from an Arch enemy. might give one or two some perspective.

  44. harry says:

    I agree Dandan, but alas I fear we have lost probably 80% of our support which does not bode well…….

  45. neamman says:

    If we have lost 80% of our support..they NEVER were supporters anyway. I would rather we have 40-50,000 committed fans who sing and chant and lose the 10-20,000 who boo or keep quiet.

  46. Big Raddy says:

    Of course I agree Neamman, but those 20k supporters help pay the weekly wages of our expanded squad.

    Harry. You are right, but IMO Walton had a very poor afternoon

  47. kelsey says:

    you can add dandan and myself to that list, but 3 wins in 12, and players wanting out and suddenly one of our strengths that to score at will has dried up, is a concern.

    yes of course we will rise again, and apart from a solitary blackburn win, the PL has been dominated by 3 clubs.
    something is not right at the club and are we really in such a position financially that for say a matter of weeks we can’t buy some quality knowing the money is coming back via cesc and/or Samir .
    As I said earlier we have a very thin squad of quality players and the experiments have to stop.
    leadership and consistency on the pitch is missing,so one asks oneself why ?. is it the player powe,has wenger taken us as far as he can or is it as i believe kroenke is putting pressure on wenger which up to now didn’t exist as he has carte blanche to run the club as if he owned it.
    I am not saying sak wenger,but when the most loyal of fans who make themselves heard week in and week out at AWAY games start chanting as they did yesterday,you have to accept patience is running out.

  48. RockyLives says:

    Hello All
    I still can’t get downhearted about the new season – yet.
    We were missing our “new Cesc” – little Jack – and some of the players looked early-season leggy.
    If you look at any title-winning team in EPL history (yes, including the Invincibles) you will see a lot of uninspiring away draws on their scoresheet, so for me it’s a bit early for wrist-slitting.
    I am also very impress with the psychic abilities of everyone telling me how our excellent defensive performance doesn’t count because Newcastle offer nothing in attack. Really? I though Obertin looked a handful when he came on, they have other tall attackers and they had numerous set pieces. They will score goals this season and I reckon will be on for a mid table finish.

    However… do I feel in my (oversized) gut that all is well? Not really. I think Kelsey put it best earlier this morning:
    “It is not a crisis but definitely not a harmonious ship at the club”.

    And Rasp also made a very important point about potential new signings – they need to be names that can “lift the spirits.” By that I think me means lift our spirits (as fans) but even more crucially, life the spirits of the squad because I can see the argument that our play yesterday still had elements of the lack of confidence that characterised last season’s run-in.

    Wiggy – excellent report which pretty much reflected the game I saw, although not the game that many others appear to have seen 🙂

  49. RockyLives says:

    Popping out now – back later.

  50. dandan says:

    Kelsey, what do you mean by players wanting out? the Fab thing has gone on for years and should be looked on as a positive that we kept him this long.
    Nasri is different he is obviously an abrasive personality witness the dissent with and being banned by France. Forget the I want to win something rubbish, he like Anelka is a mercenary and will go where the money goes, we are better off without him. Personally I have seen nothing that would encourage me to believe there is anything amiss with the club, nor have I seen any hint of Silent Stan interfering.
    Just in my opinion a tranche of fans who put winning above anything else. As I said earlier the I am entitled brigade.
    We are the Arsenal as Neville said a big club who have proved their quality and will do so again.
    The boo’ers and doomers well they know where the entrance is.
    AW’s performance cannot even begin to be put into perspective until the true financial picture can be reviewed with facts, rather than the fiction so beloved of the press and disgruntled I want a pot purveyors.
    Again Nevilles article puts the financial spending into some sort of perspective, yet countless bloggers,decry our business in this transfer window whilst it is still open. About as sensible as jumping from a train before it reaches the station,the odds are you are heading for a fall.
    Draws in the first game of the season are not unusual witness, Pool and Chelsea. Utd have not played yet. The next week is crucial with the CL coming up so lets get behind the guys, hope our injuries clear up. Whilst the club gets on with its business.

  51. Big Raddy says:

    Torres, Drogba, Kalou, Anelka, Malouda = Zip away to Stoke.

    £100+m of forward doesn’t guarantee goals. Only Pires, TH14 DB10 etc can do that!

  52. Big Raddy says:

    DD. Well said.

  53. The new manc keeper is rubbish

  54. Irish
    Spot on about the haircut. It should actually be a criminal offence.

  55. kelsey says:


    players do want out.We all know the cesc affair,but he could easily stay at least one more season.Nasri, no one knew he would turn out like that but the arrival of city has raised the bar again and he like others will follow the money.Clichy had his critics, but didn’t believe in the club anymore or perhaps he is like nasri.bendtner wants out as he is played on the wing time after time.More than idle gossip that RVP is ubhappy (reported on Sky on Friday) and I still maintain Wenger is under pressure ffor the first time since his arrival.The rest of my post I thought was realistic and positive.

  56. dandan says:


    Clichy was encouraged to leave, Gibbs was prepared to sign a contract and was on the fringe of the England squad. Bendy may still stay, I hope not as i do not believe he is good enough.
    As for the RVP rumour you are far to long in the tooth to give much credence to sky.

    Has anyone thought what would happen should Cesc fail a fitness test with his dodgy hamstring.

  57. neamman says:

    I do agree that there, to me at least, should be no reason why we cant go out now and buy a big player..surely we have the resources to do that without needing to wait form funds from Cesc/nasri. But who knows what restrictions the banks have put on clubs and owners these days? I just want the transfers to be resolvbed asap and let our new players settle in. If I have one beef its that we should,have moved tom get a lower cost defender [Dann/Samba] several weeks ago.
    BR, I understand your point about the extra 20,000 and of course..financially… I cannot disagree with you.

  58. neamman says:

    but 3 wins in 12, and players wanting out and suddenly one of our strengths that to score at will has dried up, is a concern.>>>

    Kelsey, agreed.. I also feel our attack has gone missing and the confidence has gone with our forwards. RVP excepted.

  59. Big Raddy says:

    The steam need to come out attacking from the whistle on Tuesday. Shoot on sight, no fear. – or the boo boys will make the headlines instead of the football

  60. gunnern5 says:

    Incredible, a double deflection own goal in the last few minutes and Man U win 2-1.

    If only we had half of their luck and the referee’s favour.

  61. Big Raddy says:

    GN5. I have been saying for years that SAF has sold his soul to the devil. They have an astonishing percentage of lucky goals, – scuffs (like the Rooney “supergoal” v MC last season), in off the defender (too many to mention), dodgy refereeing (the Spurs over the line non-goal) etc etc etc.

    I am told by my Manc friends that luck evens itself out over the season, MU are proof that it doesn’t.

  62. harry says:

    Guys, if you aint see this, its a must…………Keep the faith…

  63. gunnern5 says:


    Maybe their luck is running out, they have a bunch of injuries to their defense and will have to rely on new signings and youngsters for several weeks. Vidic, Rio, Ralael and Evra will all be out for varying lengths of time – Rio 10 weeks.

    However it may be their luck that it’s happened at the beginning of the season whereas ours always seem to happen in the final weeks.

  64. dandan says:

    Gunner5: perhaps they will buy the defenders we want, Ferdinand is to injury prone to rely on. 🙂

  65. allezkev says:

    Nice One Harry

  66. gunnern5 says:


    Looking back on the weekend games ( I watched five games) no team was outstanding which could lead to a very close and exciting season.

    Like yourself I cannot stand the negativism that the media has built up around our team – it appears to be infectious with many seasoned supporters joining the anti AFC bandwagon.

    Drives me crazy………………..

  67. gunnern5 says:

    Harry: I may have become a “rap” convert.

  68. Have that you catalonian wankers

  69. London says:

    Just read all the comments and for me this is the comment of the day.

    “It’s been a long time since we could say that our defense was the best part of our game.”

    It seems obvious once you have read it but somone had to spot it and put it into words, well done that man.

    Good Post WiganGooner.

  70. VCC says:

    harry 7:34….. absolute quality. Loved it.

  71. Charybdis1966 says:

    Just popping in while on my hols and just confirmed the exit of Cesc.
    So barca got their wish in the end.
    Do we have a replacement of equivalent quaity ? i sincerelyhope so but my money says Wenger will say that if he buys someone it will kill Jack and Ramsay.

  72. gunnern5 says:

    Well now we know for sure that Fabregas has gone.

    Lets see what AW has up his sleeve.

    I for one hope that it`s four aces…………….

  73. harry says:

    Found these tweets from Almunia, he has a sense of humour:

    @ManuelAlmunia: I will also become Manchester United’s new goalkeeping coach, focusing on helping David de Gea because he’s not very good. 2 hours ago · reply · retweet · favorite

    @ManuelAlmunia My agent received a call from David Gill at 5pm asking if I was available. I am delighted about the move. 3 hours ago · reply · retweet · favorite

    @ManuelAlmunia I can confirm that I will be joining Manchester United next week. I am hoping to get my career back on track at Old Trafford. Thank you. 3 hours ago · reply · retweet · favorite

  74. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    So he’s gone then. Now Arsenal can be Arsenal the team again 🙂 not Team Fabregas. I’m actually feeling quite upbeat about this TBH

  75. Rasp says:

    How very predictable – the club has known that it is a done deal for days (if not weeks), the timing was just a concession to Arsenal so that we could get yesterday’s game out of the way I’d bet.

  76. RockyLives says:

    Mr Jetson will be jetting in tomorrow no doubt as our Cesc replacement.
    Then Tevez for Nasri. Then Cahill. Then happy days are here again.

  77. Gooner In Exile says:

    Why Rasp? Why would they keep it going on so long?

    You persist with an opinion that we must sell to buy, so assuming AW wants to buy why would they not complete this deal days/weeks ago?

    It appears it is finances that have continued to be a stumbling block according to rumours we will not receive full amount up front and we will receive second payment in October.

    Anyway it’s over he has gone can we all just move on. I have seen in other places people blaming Wenger for the departure of Cesc… Anyway Cesc is now unfollowed on Twitter sorry but I can’t follow non Arsenal players.

    I’ve also seen Wilshere rubbish all rumours that he is moving. Which is good news.

    The most worrying thing for me yesterday in the Gerv/Barton handbags was the lack of Arsenal players alongside Gerv, by the time Ramsey and TR arrived there were 5/6 Toon players in there, the team need to find a togetherness and fast.

    Watched highlights of today’s games DeGea was at sixes and sevens under the high ball but on MOTD2 some thongs they called good were still incompetent for an EPL keeper let alone one at a team with title ambitions. I also thought Cech rode his luck at Stoke and was lucky not to concede at least once.

    And my final observation is that someone has to stop Ryan Shawcross playing football before ge does more serious damage. I don’t normally mind seeing Chelsea players get kicked but there is a gifted player on the pitch in Torres at least half a yard quicker in the mind than the neanderthal Shawcross, and all he tries to do I’d kick harder at where the ball was and hope to make contact with something. We will have no beautiful football in the EPL if sides like Stoke are allowed to continue to play in that way. Pugh also put in a couple of shockers in my opinion.

    See you all in the morning.

  78. Gooner In Exile says:

    To do is kick harder-iPhone buggerup

  79. gunnern5 says:


    You sound more and more bitter as each day passes!

  80. oz gunner says:

    As someone mentioned earlier typical manure luck. But as ive stated all season they are not going to be as good as everyone thinks, largely due to the loss of VDS. He saved them on so many different occassions for seasons. In Degea they have an inexperienced stick goalkeeper (he will get hit from pillar to post all season), and they better hope evans, smalling or jones step up because rio has almost had it!


    well said in regards to gerv vs barton. Not only that but if i was gerv and saw every player on my team shaking hands and laughing with barton i’d be pretty pissed. His little whinges on twitter are a joke, im glad jack stuck up for him though.

    Goetze for cesc i say

  81. chas says:

    Nice report WG.

    GIE, there were no Arsenal players close enough to help the Gerv because he was in the opponents penalty area.

    So long and thanks for all the fish, Cesc………..

  82. dandan says:

    For those who struggle with why we older fans get annoyed, frustrated and just plain fed up with the constant moaning that Arsenal have won nothing for x years and that Wenger should go. Perhaps this article will help explain our perception that standards of patience, loyalty and real support have been ditched in favour of expediency and lack of respect.

    From Today’s Times
    Last updated August 14 2011 9:44PM
    To those who subscribe to the belief that football started in 1992, the enduring legend of Brian Clough must be rather odd. By the first season of the Premier League era, this great manager had become a washed-up drunk, a blotchy Spitting Image caricature, looking impotent as, like King Canute, he found that his majesty alone could not stop the rising tide.

    Almost two decades on, the grim details of Clough’s final year in charge of Nottingham Forest make for excruciating reading. In Provided You Don’t Kiss Me, Duncan Hamilton’s award-winning book based on 16 years reporting on Forest for the Nottingham Evening Post, Clough comes across as a man who had lost touch, stripped of his aura and his authority to make difficult — and correct — decisions.

    As relegation loomed in April 1993, Clough told Hamilton of his regret at selling Teddy Sheringham and failing to replace him. “We’ve got the money,” he said. “I just don’t have the inclination. I don’t know if [Stan Collymore] is right for us. I’m not sure he can play. And yet the thing is, I used to know.”

    He continued: “I’ve never been so depressed, so down. I’m getting older, the players are getting younger, the game is moving on. I have to accept I’m not as good as I was. Even Clark Gable had to accept in the end that he had got a few wrinkles.”

    A few weeks later, Clough’s managerial career ended with Forest relegated in pitiful fashion. It had been 15 years since he led the club to the First Division title, 13 years since their second successive European Cup. If his first 5½ years at Forest brought success on a breathtaking scale, changing financial circumstances brought an anticlimax; in his final 13 seasons, they won two League Cups, two Full Members Cups and achieved a few top-three finishes with a young team that was lightweight when compared with the great teams he had built with Forest and Derby County.

    Why the trip down memory lane? Because it serves to put Arsène Wenger’s struggles at Arsenal into context. No, not a context that suggests a great manager can fall into terrifying decline, but one that offers a reminder of the unconditional warmth, respect and reverence that Clough enjoyed among Forest’s supporters to the bitter, sad end and to this day. At no point in that wretched final season did the City Ground faithful turn on him. They questioned him like never before, yes, but they still worshipped the man.

    It seems that level of respect no longer exists in modern football. Just as Clough would not have been forgiven these days for putting his faith in bargain-basement buys and eschewing expensive short-term fixes, neither would a Liverpool manager be allowed to endure seven years without a trophy as Bill Shankly did while rebuilding his team between the titles of 1966 and 1973.

    Funnily enough, there is a statue of Shankly at Anfield, much like there is a stand named after Clough at The City Ground. On Shankly’s plinth, it says, simply, “He made the people happy”. It is an epitaph that Forest’s supporters would apply to Clough with equal relish.

    The modern supporter, though, is happy all too rarely. Opinion can swing violently even against a manager who has done as much for his club as Wenger has. His contribution has not been as dramatic as Clough’s transformation of Forest in the late 1970s, but it should still accord him a reverence that is clearly absent when an online poll has 47 per cent of Arsenal supporters saying it is “time for Wenger to go”.

    How far would Arsenal have to tumble for hostility, rather than mere criticism, to be justifiable? A lot farther than this, certainly. Farther than being the sixth-best team in Europe, which, according to Uefa’s clubs rankings, Arsenal have been over the past five trophyless years while spending far less than their leading competitors.

    Wenger’s critics might cling to the Clough comparison as evidence of what can happen if a legendary figure outstays his welcome. But that is not the point. In any case, there is a critical difference. Clough, as Hamilton documented, lost the conviction that was his hallmark. Wenger’s is as strong as ever. He made the people happy. Given time and patience, he will do so again

  83. Gooner In Exile says:

    Nice article DD, thanks for sharing.

  84. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning dandan and GiE,
    I say thank God the Cesc saga is done and dusted. Time to move on. Lets also get the Nasri affair over and done with pronto.

  85. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Sorry Oz and Chas,
    Morning. Just seen you are both on today.

  86. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Anyone know anything about Udinese? Surely they will sniff an opportunity playing us without Cesc replcement, Nasri and RvP. Might they go for it, or are they the type of team to turn up in a bus, and stay in it?

  87. evonne says:

    Cesc is gone 😦 😦 😦

  88. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Interestingly, Porto have signed Steven Darfour (Belgian playmaker), so does that free up Fernando Belluschi (my preferred choice)?

  89. MickyDidIt89 says:

    How can we cheer you up? You can do so much better than Cesc you know. He really wasn’t good enough for you and all that breaky-up nonsense!

  90. Rasp says:

    Morning all,

    GiE, the club have all but admitted that they need (or will only operate) to sell to buy, I don’t think that is an issue any more. AW said something to the effect that we already have a full squad and there is no room for replacements unless players leave.

    I agree with Micky, its time to move on. I hold no malice towards Cesc, he’s a great player and has been wonderful for Arsenal, but I also believe that had we done certain things differently he might have preferred to stay.

  91. kelsey says:

    Morning all, if the figures are to be believed it’s a total farce.I know from the late danny Fiszman that when negotiations reopened in february Arsenal were absollutely determined not to let cesc go for Barca’s price and now they have got their man for less than than were prepared to go to last year.This might as well have been concluded at the end of the season.Move on is all very well, and he was a loyal servant,but for a club who puts financial stability before anything else, this IMO is not a very good business deal, nor is the timing.
    Dandan is a mate,we both have our own personal problems as age catches up with you, but he is extremely positive and I am not.
    I and he and one or two others have followed the roller coaster ride of our club more than most of you but we are both passionate but we disagree in the way the club is heading.
    I hope we will b a better team eventually without cesc and Samir, but don’t kid yourselves we have a hell of a fight starting tomorrow too advance in the CL with a somewhat depleted team.I sincerely hope I am wrong,so I shall just wait and see. it won’t change my life if we win or not, but i am getting increasingly annoyed at what is happening at the club I love.

  92. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp morning,
    You mention the sell to buy thing, and I agree, although worryingly I see it also as a buy to sell. This limits us to buying players at no more that about 24 yrs old, with the exception of real cheapos/freebies.
    Where does this policy leave us with players like Tevez?

  93. evonne says:

    Micky – thank you for trying, but it is a black Monday for me 😦 I will never watch Barca for as long as he is there, cannot see him in that horrid shirt 😦 And Real were a better team last night.

  94. Rasp says:

    Morning Micky,

    Neither scenario is particularly attractive. I accept that we cannot compete with manu, chelski, city pool, RM, Barca, PSG and a few others, but that does not mean that there are not talented players out there that we should be able to recruit.

    So now we know we have some money, the club has said that it will use any money raised from sales to fund new players and there are 16 days left to bring in reinforcements – so I am happy to sit back and see what happens, I just hope the Nasri situation is not going to delay our activity any further.

  95. Gooner In Exile says:

    Rasp that doesn’t really answer the question, unless you’re saying that AW isn’t looking for new signings so no matter what happened to Cesc we weren’t going to buy anyone else.

    I’m hopeful for a couple of arrivals in the next week or two.

  96. Rasp/Wigan – are you there? Rocky has put a Monday post in drafts so I suggest you use that and his Cesc post on Thursday?

  97. evonne says:

    Peaches – go away, you are on holidays!!!

  98. Rasp says:

    Hi GiE, yes I am also hopefull of some new arrivals – but I want them to be candidates for the first team not young potential.

    To answer your question, I think we kept it going so long because we are pretty inept at the whole thing. We have accepted far less for Cesc than he is worth (and less than we could have got a year ago if reports are to be believed) and been made to wait too long to get even that. AW’s reluctance to let him go and the collective attempt to fool the world with empty words to force the price up have all been part of the problem.

  99. evonne says:

    BTW – Thierry’s birthday is on Wednesday, could anyone write a Happy Birthday Tel post?

  100. London says:

    “AW said something to the effect that we already have a full squad and there is no room for replacements unless players leave.”

    Morning Rasp

    You just don’t get negotiations do you?

    No one running a business tells their negotiating opposite exactly what they are thinking i.e. had Wenger confirmed that Arsenal are interested in signing a player the price would automatically go up. Hence the statement we have pretty much all the squad we need.

    These statements by Wenger are not aimed at you.

    As for the club all but admitting they have to sell before they can buy, well they needed to know for certain that Fabregas was definitely going, had he stayed the squad would have been very different, but I fail to see anywhere an admission of what you are suggesting.

  101. MickyDidIt89 says:

    How much do reports say we got for Cesc?

  102. Last nag for a week, need volunteers for match reports for Udinese and L’pool. Suggest asking Wonderman for Liverpool – he likes doing them for Emirates games and maybe Harry or Jamie or GiE for Udinese …………..

    Over to you …… but I might be able to pop in, hoping to catch both games on a laptop

  103. London says:

    There is one thing that I agree with you on Rasp but not for the critcal reasons you suggest and that is that the Cesc deal proabably was agreed last Friday, the reason for the delay in announcing it, in my view, was that Wenger hoped that we beat Newcastle and by doing so we the fans would have been more relaxed about the sale, I don’t think this one came of.

  104. kelsey says:

    two reports i read one on BBc says 27 million plus 5 million add ons the others generally say 30 million plus addons.

  105. Gooner In Exile says:

    Kelsey £30m + £5m in extras is ok business in a one buyer market that’s according to initial reports. Now Barca are saying it’s less I guess we will know the truth when we see Financial Reports whilst the profit won’t be accounted in the 10/11 Financial Year it will have to be reported as a significant Post Balance Sheet Event.

    It appears there might be some creativity in the fee as it seems to include the £4m in contractual obligations to Cesc that he has so kindly waived…:roll:

    Also selling him now and not at the end of last year helps our FFP cause as this 11/12 season will be first marker year.

    Micky I have a few views on the criticisms of our buying young policy and I think I need to put them in a post the irony of Cescs departure and the reasons he has given (in interviews last season) are glaring. He has appeared to have forgotten that the reason he s in his position is the result of the clubs buying policy but he and others (Clichy, Nasri etc) coveniently seem to forget that and start demanding the club do away with a policy that has benefited them.

    Cesc has left at a time when we could have gone on to do so much more with him.

    What happens if he pulls up in the medical?

  106. London says:

    Morning GIE

    What does this mean in non accountant language?

    “Also selling him now and not at the end of last year helps our FFP cause as this 11/12 season will be first marker year.”

  107. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    If Arsenal get Tevez for Nasri. Then Cahill. I’ll Do a little dance, make a little love & get down tonight. Happy daze indeed 🙂

  108. Rasp says:

    Morning London,

    I get negotiations perfectly. How has this been a good outcome for Arsenal? – its great for Barca. We lost the negotiation battle by selling Cesc too cheaply and too late in the transfer window. Do you seriously believe that Barca or anyone else were convinced by our posturing over Cesc, they knew it was all groundless bluster.

    You are also deluded in thinking that we keep it quiet when buying a player, it is completely the opposite except when they are last ditch panic buys like Silvestre and Squillaci. As I have repeatedly said, our purchases are as long and drawn out as our selling. In this multimedia world it is nigh on impossible to buy any name player without it getting out.

  109. chas says:

    Haha, has everyone seen this rumour that Farcelona are putting a £130m buy-out clause in Cesc’s contract. If it’s true, that is taking the p*ss.

  110. London says:

    It is worth noting that 35 million euros plus 5 mil euros extras does add up to 40 million euros, where is that euro sign on the key board?

    At the end of last season Barcelona offered thirty five million euros for Cesc if you take the increase plus the fact that Cesc has wavered his fee from Arsenal in this the club are 10 million euros better of.

  111. dandan says:

    Tevez is about as likely as DB10 resigning as a player next week

  112. chas says:

    Is Dennis coming back?

  113. kelsey says:

    Rasp/london ( I know you both won’t listen to me) but let’s keep it peaceful on here.Any true supporter is upset about the way this transfer has gone,a long running soap,and one day the truth might come out.
    RA I don’t think the fair play rule had anything to do with it, and even if it did,clubs will get round it.

  114. I’m glad he’s gone, Hope he’s a failure. I’m not bitter 🙂

  115. chas says:

    Agreed GM, hope his hamstrings become as loose as Norah Batty’s stocking elastic.

  116. dandan says:

    He gave us seven years in a foreign country, why shouldnt he go home.

  117. London says:


    You think you understand it but you are still way off.

    Even in the last minute of a negotiation you maintain your position, you do not capitulate. It may have been a groundless bluster to you but had Wenger done the opposite it would have been for worse. Did that ever cross your mind?

    By saying that he thinks the squad is adequate the club, when making an initial inquiry for a new player, can start from a lower asking price, if he gave the impression that we are desperate to strengthen the squad the price immediately goes up.


  118. WiganGooner says:

    Morning all – new post will be up at 9:30 🙂


  119. dandan says:

    Bloody hell, does that mean those gooners abroad cant decide to come home, they have to stay away because of the company they work for. I could understand if he was going to another PM side. In my book blood is thicker than water.
    Give the guy a break

  120. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All

    There was a time when I loved Cesc,. but he has been a peripheral figure at the club for more than a season and quite frankly it was time he left. I believe that last season we won more games without Cesc than with him.

    AW should not have given him the captaincy last season – who needs a leader who is committed to leaving the club?

    Apart from the principle, does it matter whether we got €32 or €35m?

    Nonetheless, Fabregas has been a wonderful player to watch over his career and I wish him the best on the bench at his homeclub.

  121. Gooner in Exile says:

    London, what i was trying to get at was that Player trading profits/losses for Financial Fair Play (FFP) will be assessed over the period from the start of the 2011/12 period to the end of the 2013/14 period.

    Therefore if we had sold Cesc before 30 June (assuming the Financial Year is used by UEFA) the proceeds could not have been used in the calculation when we are first assessed. That said it does not mean we couldn’t have sold him on the 1st July if the offer was there and had remained unchanged.

    However having not studied the FFP fully (where’s 26 when we need him) if the period is over the season not the Financial Year it could be that we couldn’t complete the deal until after the kick off of competitive football this year to make sure the sale fell within the FFP period.

    Kelsey I know as much/little as the next man I’m just trying to look from different angles, comes from the Accountant within. I certainly hold hope for UEFA correctly monitoring the FFP we will have to see, for it to be seen to be working it is going to be necessary for all FFP decisions/calculations to be published rather than kept internal by UEFA as any trust or value in FFP will be diminished immediately.

  122. Gooner in Exile says:

    I haven’t really followed avidly the career of anyone leaving Arsenal. So Cesc will be another now no longer with us who gets the same attention, I will not search out news, but if it presents itself I will read it with half an interest.

  123. Rasp says:

    Hi GiE, does anyone believe that the FFP rules will have any effect on the big teams? It is obvious from the activity of Barca, City, RM and Manu that they believe they are untouchable and sufficient loopholes will be left to allow them a get-out clause.

  124. Rasp says:


    Of course what you are saying regarding flagging up the need for players is true. Its is the accepted norm and all clubs do it – therefore it is just a process and quite ineffectual.

    My point is that (ignoring the multitude of unsubstantiated rumours) in this day and age it is impossible for any club to conduct covert operations in player purchases.

  125. Gooner In Exile says:

    We can only hope Rasp.

    It should be said that half the reason behind them is to protect the fans and the club in the community, i.e. if a club is failing the test it could be forced to convert debt to equity and therefore the owners will have shares to be sold and a more permanent position, rather than in the case of City presently the opportunity to walk away and demand the club pay off all debts due to them which would leave them in deep water.

    I also think we will see the true effects next summer this one was expected to be one last blow out, so we will see next summer and in the Winter Transfer Window whether it is having the required effect. There is also as I often repeat the small problem that if we were owned by only Kroenke we would be able to trade at €50m loss rather than the €5m allowed for a multi owned club. Not sure where Barca or RM fall into this bit, but City, United and Chelsea all fall into the €50m bracket

  126. Dandan
    He’s helped them stitch us up. We’ve got barely more than newcastle got fo carroll for him. I won’t have fond memories of him like I have with Eboue.

  127. dandan says:

    Goonermike he cost us nothing and has given us 8 years top class service, so every penny we get for him is profit, what the hell is wrong with that.

  128. Rasp says:

    New post ………

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