Arsenal – going broke?

Ever since the Man. U and Chelsea matches, the big question for all Gooners has resurfaced again. Why aren’t we buying the 2-3 big players we need to cement our place back at the top of the league? More to the point, can we really not afford to compete on transfer fees and wages, or is it stubborn old Arsene still just trying to prove that he can win with kids? Only last Wednesday he talked about Arsenal having to live in a ‘realistic world’. So what is the reality for Arsenal? Does ‘realistic’ mean ‘skint’? I think the answer might be YES.

Digging into Arsenal’s finances is about as exciting as waiting for Rory Delap to dry his balls. Fortunately Robert Peston, BBC Business reporter and long time Gooner, did a lot of the work last summer. Aided by a convenient leak of an investment report, he put some fascinating facts together, including:

1. Arsenal’s earnings (leaving out interest payments etc.) are probably falling, mainly because existing player wages are going up to compensate them for tax changes.

2. Our season tickets are 24% higher than other big four clubs and our other tickets 40% higher. So no more money is coming in from the fans.

3. The new flats development at Highbury  isn’t likely to make any money to help pay off the £242m we borrowed for the Emirates.

So whatever money we make is having to go first to existing players to keep their take home pay the same, even though taxes are going up and up. Then we have to pay more for the loan on the Emirates than we planned to.  Whatever is left over could be used to buy players and pay their wages. How much could that be? It could be as little as £5m-£10m. Now it makes sense why our big new signings are coming in on frees. When Chamakh arrives, his wages alone will use up quite a bit of that.  If we didn’t qualify for the Champions League, even that £5m to £10m could disappear. Now you know why we played the second string against Stoke.

So far from being prudent Arsenal, the board seem to have got us to the point that we are strapped for cash. Emirates or not, we have bitten off more than we can chew, and we are paying for it.

So what can we do?

Uzmanov wanted to issue new shares and bring an extra £150m into the club. It would pay off a fair bit of debt, get the interest payments down and give some breathing space. Even £150m wouldn’t put us back in the big league though, just get the bankers off our backs and let Arsene buy quality. The board don’t like it because it means giving up some control. I think it’s a bit late to worry about that now.

Second option – sell players, starting with Cesc. £40m in the bank and another maybe £5m off the wage bill. Not what we pay higher season ticket prices for than anyone else, but no different from Man. U. selling Ronaldo.

I never thought I’d say this, but I pick Usmanov over selling Cesc. The board have done their best within our proud traditions but this time they’ve blown it and unless we want to start moving with the Evertons and Aston Villas of this world, it’s time we faced up to the state we are in, before it is too late.

261 Responses to Arsenal – going broke?

  1. London says:

    Alfa

    Congratulations on your first headline post.

  2. London says:

    Morning Archie

    Welcome to AA

    Could you give us a bit more information as to why you think that?

  3. London says:

    Alfa

    I hope you are coming on today to defend this.

  4. Dave says:

    I think it’s about time we were told the truth about the finance side of the club.

    Either Wenger look’s like a genius getting us CL footy every year on no big transfers, or he is stubborn, so either way let us hear the truth

  5. Rasputin says:

    Morning all,

    Thought provoking post alfa!

    I would hope that there may be other options apart from sell Cesc or sell our soul to Usamov.

    We could prune the wage bill I’m sure. Our staffing levels off and on the pitch seem to be extraordinarily high. I’d be happy for us to buy players in the £15m bracket and leave the billionnaires to fight over the glamour buys.

  6. terryhenry says:

    “Arsenal’s earnings (leaving out interest payments etc.) are probably falling, mainly because existing player wages are going up to compensate them for tax changes”

    *probably*

    *Our season tickets are 24% higher than other big four clubs and our other tickets 40% higher. So no more money is coming in from the fans.”

    I fail to see how these two sentences are connected in anyway.

    “The new flats development at Highbury isn’t likely to make any money to help pay off the £242m we borrowed for the Emirates”

    *isnt likely*

    You have produced no facts and your arguments are at best flawed, at worst complete bollocks made up to get you a few more hits to your site.

  7. Rasputin says:

    Hi Dave,

    That is the big question! …… maybe “We can’t take the truth” …. more likely , it’s not black and white but a combination of all arguments.

    Personally, I don’t trust what comes out from Board level in terms of their PR statements and sadly that has also been true of some of Arsene’s utterings lately.

  8. Alfa says:

    Hi all. Looking forward to some lively comments today. I wish it were bollocks and I’d love Archie to prove me wrong.

    Dave, I reckon he is a genius, like all of them a bit obsessive at times but what he has done (and the board until recently) has been beyond the call of duty.

  9. Rasputin says:

    terryhenry,

    We’re not interested in getting hits for the sake of hits. Personally, I’m not very good at the financial stuff and I am willing to listen to anybody’s opinion. By all means give us your view….. we’ve already had ‘bollocks’ so I’m hoping someone will expand on that a bit.

  10. Mart says:

    not the most impressive article i’m afraid… things like “probably falling”, “isn’t likely” and “It could be as little as” don’t really inspire too much confidence as to the validity of this article.

    Cheers anyway
    Mart

  11. Harry Barracuda says:

    Usmanov? You utter cunt.

  12. London says:

    My reaction to the suggestion that Arsenal are going skint comes a very close second to someone suggesting that we should be playing in blue shorts, white shits and a cockerel on the chest.

    I am just bolting my toys to the bottom of the pram before I answer this one properly.

  13. London says:

    P&R

    Here it is, please don’t delete them.

  14. Alfa says:

    terryhenry, the information came from an authoratative report prepared by Lazard Bros. (the investment bank) last July. They prepared it for Usmanov.

    To be fair, Rothschilds, the board’s bank, disagreed with the analysis, although not the basic economics.

    As fans and season ticket holders we have to make a judgement which one to believe. If you have a better set of figures it would be great to see them.

  15. The whole point is that we don’t really have a clear idea of where the money goes other than X amount comes in and Y goes out and what is left is clearly not being used to buy new players. Why?

  16. tommystout says:

    oh shut up.
    we are sustainable, we are in great shape for the future.
    get behind your team, everything arsenal oozes professionalism and we are in good hands.
    we don’t have the right to demand success but what we do get will get us there in the end and i don’t care if its another 5 years.
    I’m more worried about who will continue after wenger, this arsenal way has to remain the arsenal who ever steps in.
    I love watching this arsenal, win lose or draw… its frustrating, its all of them against us but thats the arsenal.

  17. gooner76 says:

    “The new flats development at Highbury isn’t likely to make any money to help pay off the £242m we borrowed for the Emirates”

    If you checked your facts instead of going on last summers tosh you would find an interview from Ivan Gazids from 2 weeks ago where he stated that they had worked very hard on Highbury Square to the point where it would make a profit.

    Our season tickets are 24% higher, but they include 6 cup games, the other big four don’t.

    Now I am not saying that our financial situation is rosy and we are certainly not competing in the transfer market like Mr Hill-Wood and Mr Fizsman promised but at least know what you are talking about before regurgitating old speculation and incorrect stats.

  18. Kris says:

    I am a Financial Analyst, I have gone over Arsenal’s latest accounts with a fine toothbrush and I can confirm that we are in a far better financial position than any other club in the Premier League.

    Stop scaremongering and write about something worthwhile.

  19. Big Muz says:

    Well done you have picked a few half truths, matched them to incorrect unsubstantiated assumptions while ignoring easily available evidence. A triumph in half arsed reporting, im sure a long career in journalism awaits.

  20. London says:

    This is turning out to be an interesting day.

  21. aged gooner says:

    We seem to be at Arsenal the only top club without a sugar daddy and not likely to and up like Portsmouth.

    Chelsea only exist because of Roman and look how many Managers they have had searching for the Holy Grail.

    The only disappointment is we still have Hill Wood and not Dein.

    It was Hill Wood who rejected Kronke and Dein who wanted him on board.

    Hill Wood had to eat humble pie once why not twice for the sack of Arsenal

    As for your article what a load of b——s

  22. Zain says:

    Wow…your blog sucks big time. Try going through the financial statements before coming up with your “probable” assumptions.

    Arsenal’s earnings (leaving out interest payments etc.) are probably NOT falling, they are increasing!!! MAINLY BECAUSE the financial statements say so!

  23. Ryan says:

    Who writes this utter BS?

    What age are you.. 13/14?

  24. London says:

    Instead of just insulting the post, can someone explain, point for point, why they think it is wrong?

  25. London says:

    Morning Kris

    As a financial anyalst why don’t you explain why you think it is wrong, point for point.

  26. Rasputin says:

    Message to everyone new to the site. You probably should read the ‘about us’ tab at the top.

    This site has no agenda, no theme, no huge ego trying to batter folks into submission with an opinion. Alfa has written this article to give his personal view. Nobody goes into moderation on here and comments are not binned…… everyone is welcome to give there opinion.

    If you read back through previous articles you will see a number of different contributors with a range of varying viewpoints.

  27. London says:

    Well here’s a first…..I agree with every word of your last comment Rasp 😉

  28. Rasputin says:

    Kris,

    Thank you for your comment. If you think you’d like to expand on your viewpoint, you would be welcome to submit a headline post giving your professional view of the finances.

  29. nice to see some old faces

  30. irishgooner says:

    Amazing to think that gooners have only now copped on that we are incapable of buying ‘expensive’ players. When you build a stadium and have the intention of servicing its debt by selling apartments that don’t sell then how the f@ck are you going to have cash reseves to buy players let alone meet the interest on loan? The first thing you do is meet your wage demands from exising staff on the books and keep them playing to their optimum best i.e get te best return on investment possible with what you have. Arsene Wenger is doing an amazing job faced with financial realities around him. Grow up chaps and learn to appreciate how well the club is doing in near depression conditions.

  31. London 😉

    This is part of an interview that Gazidis had published in the Times recently.

    “There were a lot of questions when I came in 12 months ago about Highbury Square [the property development on the site of Arsenal’s former stadium], but we have made tremendous progress with that and it’s fairly clear that we’re going to make a profit from it,” Gazidis adds. “The other debt is associated with the stadium and that is tied in at very good rates long term.

    Whats “tremendous progress” ? It means nothing.

  32. I think he means the rate of completion has risen on those flats.

    Considering the dead cat bounce in the property market since last year… he could be right.

  33. Rasputin says:

    Morning SH – I knew you’d track us down sooner or later 😆

    London, don’t worry, it probably won’t happen again 😉

  34. arsenal blog world really is the new rock n roll

  35. London says:

    Morning SFH

    Arsenal blog world…the new rock n roll…I like it.

  36. iain says:

    utter shite. Based on the Lazard report or an opinion of some bloke called Robert?? What Tosh- this holds the same amount of respectability as tribal footballs newsnow shite raking.

    Arsenal are THE bueprint of a modern club. Wenger refuses to spend AVAILABLE funds as he is developing players- does this make him frustrating, stubborn and annoying- yes certainly. Does this make us skint….er that would be a No then.

    Try this for BASIC FINANCE on home gate receipts alone. The loan for The Emirates is being paid at 24 million a year I am lead to believe. Highbury held 38,000 at an average £40 a ticket – a £1,520,000 gate every match. Even if you just count revenues from League and Cup games at home thats approx £30 million a season. The Emirates holds 60,000 at an average £50 a ticket- thats £3 mill a game – thus approx double the home gate revenues at £60 million a season. Even if you look at this alone, let alone wet sales and increased matchday vertical revenue streams then Arsenal can easily service their debt.

    This seems like an Usmanjabba love in. Sod off fatman, we dont need you.

  37. Gooner4Life says:

    What rubbish!

    Did you even bother reading the 08-09 financial statements?

    1) Wages will go up for all clubs and will do so more for those clubs who hire big names and don’t have a wage structure

    2) Hardly anyone is going to increase this income significantly

    3) read the financial statements and recent news on the subject

    Arsenal’s debt is completely manageable and makes good business sense.

    Having said that, any extra money that would have come in the shape of equity would have helped the manager. Is it worth giving someone like Usmanov a chance to take over? I am not sure he wouldn’t do a Liverpool to us.

    The only thing certain is that the author of this post is a moron and a lazy one at that.

  38. Livers says:

    1. Why would players wages go up when the 50% tax law isn’t in force yet

    2. We still sell to silver and red members each game so money still comes in after ST Sales.

    3. Arsenal borrowed more money 2 years ago to build more flats. Why would they do this if they wouldn’t make a profit…. yeah exactly

    We have the 3rd highest wages in the Prem (maybe 4th after Man City’s get published) and our investment seems to be in the academy at present rather than the yesterdays man. Yes it’s sometimes frustrating not getting a big name player but apart from Arshavin Arsene rarely does get the finished article. We make Galacticos rememeber and don’t buy them. A little patience if you will. I trust Arsene and certainly do not trust Usmanov…

    Keep the faith

  39. Rasputin says:

    iain,

    Thank you for your comment. The offer I made to Kris earlier is open to you too. If you want to submit your view in the form of a post, we will put it up and others can have the opportunity to discuss your assessment of the situation.

  40. wrightydenthierry says:

    Your article clearly doesn’t have any element of research and is just a rehashed version of something that was published in July last year, not very original!!! Given the recent financial picture of other clubs it ,puts what we have done in a better perspective.
    Some actual facts might help Adebayor/Toure were sold in the summer and this has reduced our wage bill by loads and brought in extra £30M into our bank account. The board say this money is ring fenced and Wenger says he has this money, are you saying they are all liars!!!!
    Even though our football turnover has increased, we are actively looking for better commercial sponsorship deals. Your take (or should I say your copied comments!) on this is that our earnings are falling despite the fact that even the stadium receipts went up last year???
    As for our season ticket prices, anyone that has one knows this is not true and depends where you are sitting in the stadium, and also we are one of the few clubs that charge for 26 games. My ticket costs me £33/game and I think that’s good value for the quality of entertainment I’m watching.

    Maybe you should have a good look at the sources of information before just copying and pasting somebody else’s article!

    Click to access gun__1254124328_PLUS_ANNOUNCEMENT_29-9-09.pdf

  41. Gooner4Life says:

    Oh, I’m sorry, forgot to add that only idiots think we need 2-3 big signings to cement our place at the top.

  42. well done on the blog ladies and gents, i shall link you up.

    can’t have we are going broke though.

    all we are doing is spending within our means.

    wenger is very cautious in his approach to new signing for 2 reasons… i think the mental scars of jeffers and reyes live long in his mind… too him he failed as a manager and secondly as an economist.

    he really is the only manager on earth who could have seemlessly guided us into a grand new home without making us go bust.

    we are beautifully set up for the future.

  43. Tony Saunders says:

    I don’t 100% agree with what is written here. But I think every Gooner should be asking where the money is going. Seems a bit odd to me. Is our prudence ALL down to Wenger alone?I find that very hard to believe.

  44. swarve says:

    Firstly,to all those expert financial analysts…where d hell are ur figures? 2ndly,I dnt agree wiv the article due2da comments released by gazidis couple months bk. I believe it is a mixture of wengers stubborness n eccentricity n avin shitwood up top! Dein used2b fully involved even at under16 level on a wet rainy evenin,gotta love the guy!!nt sure bout this usmanov guy tho! 4a while nw our income exceeds our outgoings,consistently in champs league knockout stages,I believe we gt a pretty penny2spend bt d team dnt need much tweekin.wat dus need a tweek is non achievin teenagers gettin renewed contracts4no reason hence d wage bill bein so high

  45. Livers says:

    Swarve……you’re not texting now mate

  46. kewr15 says:

    too bad but i disagree with the idea that the wages has gone up to compensate the increase in income tax.

  47. SH – we may be beautifully set up for the future but what if our future is without Cesc Fabregas and other young players that we have spent money on developing who feel the need to move on to be part of a winning team not be part of a club that is financially stable.

  48. Alfa says:

    It’s great to see so many people with a strong opinion about a subject I thought would be less interesting than the football issues.

    I started out by trying to find an explanation as to why we are spending so little on new players. I thought we were in a strong position financially. Long term we may well be. In the short term at least some financial experts think we do not have enough cash. I don’t believe that the club can raise more cash quickly by raising ticket prices – we already pay more than anyone else. I was relieved my season tickets didn’t cost any more this year and I don’t want them to go up next season either.

    I’m sure that the board and Gazides are doing their best with the development but be realistic, even if the figures I’m working from were wrong, it’s hardly been a great time for property investment recently.

    So we have a big debt, which we can cover, no way of significantly raising additional cash through day to day operations and an investment that at best didn’t turn out to be as profitable as hoped. And has been said, player wages etc. are going up for everyone all the time.

    Is it any wonder we can’t buy any new players, or that we might need outside funding (Usmanov, Kroenke, a bank, whoever)? That anyone who comes in is on a free?

    I’m looking forward to someone telling me it’s all OK really and AW is just waiting until the top players are available in the summer – that’s what I thought/hoped until recently.

  49. tommystout says:

    peaches – if cesc went then someone else would step in to be our star player and ensure that the barca/real rigmarole is endured that summer…. cesc is bound to go one day.
    Yes we play the right way, our future is bright (not orange). i’m pretty proud to be an arsenal fan in these testing times, arsenal is becoming a brand and others will copy us because its the way of the future. The thing is we have a head start on everyone else.

  50. Tony S – The money is going to pay back the 400M we borrowed only 5 years ago.

    The grand plan is to pay it back ASAP, revenues are good, there is a great youth project in place, plenty of young guns coming through.

  51. True we have a head start on everyone else and we’re roads ahead of the other glamorous clubs who are in massive debt but I want Cesc to leave us knowing he had been a bigger part of our history.

  52. Alfa says:

    wrightydenthierry, there is indeed a lot of good information in 2009 year end results, including the statement that net cash generated during the year was just under £7m. The total cash is just under £70m apparently. Why aren’t we buying anyone then? Is it because just one decent player would swallow up that £7m (players need paying in cash).

    Like I keep saying, I’d genuinely love to hear the ‘true’ explanation.

  53. peaches – this arsenal team is so very close to being that winning team.

    we really aint that far away… the days of big spending are nearly over… the days when a club like pompey could spend big etc

    a new dawn is on the horizion, footbal is in DEEP crisis… only when the excrement really hits the fan soon will gooners realise how lucky we were… to borrow 400M… just before the crisis… and still come up smelling of roses.

  54. Livers says:

    So Alpha, when Chamakh does arrive, where do you think we need strengthening ? We’ll have 4 keepers, 3 left backs, 2 right backs, 4 centre backs, 8 midfielders and 5 forwards….

    Signing players isn’t always the answer and with a fit VP we looked in good shape but unfortunatly Eduardo and Bendtner have been injured too and we’ve still done “ok”.

    Everyone says we need a new CB.. but who out there to replace better than we have ? The only thing I think we need is a better keeper….. We can’t compete with City and Chelsea and that’s a fact but we can compete with them on our scouting avenues and that’s what Arsene is trying to do..

  55. agreed, livers

    short term gains, never equal long term happiness.

    a footbal club is for life, not just for xmas.

  56. Livers says:

    Buying isn’t always the answer… we are closer than people think. Investing is the answer for long term sustainable success and that’s what we’ve been doing.

    Some people are just a little too impatient however..

  57. irishgunner says:

    The above Irishgooner isn’t me – you need a new name fellow country person 😉

    Alfa – I have a problem with this:

    ” the information came from an authoratative report prepared by Lazard Bros. (the investment bank) last July. They prepared it for Usmanov.” – As far as I know this was “leaked” to make Usmanov’s attempt to takeover the club look more favourable.

    I don’t by any means think we are doing brilliantly financially but I certainly don’t think we are skint, not by a long shot.

    No Liverpool are skint. They spent the money they had for the ground on players and all for nothing as they didn’t win the league.

    Adversely, we have been prudent with buying players while selling many at a profit. We also have the new ground and I don’t see how we aren’t making extra money from the fans based on tickets sold each week and the price of them.

    We got to the Champions League and FA Cup semi-finals last season and despite not winning them they still would have brought in some decent dough through prizemoney and tv money.

    It doesn’t add up. I don’t think we can afford David Villa’s or Ronaldo’s but we can afford the Arshavin’s and Vermaelen’s.

  58. kelsey says:

    Alpha,

    Well done on giving your opinion on a very immotive subject.

    None of us really now the truth about the finances of our club,therefore we can only give opinions.
    Personally I think the idea of becoming estate agents was wrong.Call it greed or whatever, yet when it comes to buying players we have reportedly lost signings for the sake of a few millions.The two don’t add up.

    Many gripe that they pay the highest price for tickets to watch the team, but there is no guarantee of success even if we spent the reported money that is at Wenger’s disposal.
    Only one team can win the title, and considering we have an average squad with a crap keeper and no fit out and out striker we aren’t doing so badly.
    Anyone listening to The Sunday Supplement yesterday would have heard some of these points raised.If we had a Drogba we would win the league(so said Henry Winter.)

    The frustration is that we really aren’t that far behind the others but Wenger wants to complete his mission of not gambling or paying over the odds and the board back him.

    Maybe we will just have to wait as we find ourselves in a crazy position where many grounds are half empty,yet players are earning money that was unheard of,a few years back, and we are in the worst recession for 80 years.

    Survival of the fittest is the key, and I have accepted that, as Wenger wont change now.

  59. Rasputin says:

    Hi Irish, kelsey,

    Chamakh’s coming, let’s just buy Hugo Lloris for £10m and job done 😛

  60. irishgunner says:

    Morning Rasp.

    I just noticed the Champions League is spread out. Bordeaux aren’t playing till next week so might get to see Chamakh. Chelsea don’t play till next week either.

  61. kelsey says:

    Morning to you to Rasp and everyone else

  62. irishgunner says:

    Morning Kelsey.

    Morning all the newbies.

  63. Morning Irish and kelsey

    I think the Champs lge is spread out as both the Milan games are at home first time around.

    How much calmer we all are today about how the team needs strengthening and letting Arsene complete his youth project than we were last monday 😉

  64. irishgunner says:

    Peaches – I think that happened before and only the Milan match was moved forward a week, not the whole fixtures.

    Makes more money for the money men 😉

  65. You’re probably right Irish, I think there are 5 this week and 3 next week.

  66. Livers says:

    All the CL is spread over 4 weeks this time… 4 games this week 4 next..

    a week break then 4 and 4 again… crazy, but yeah all for the money men

  67. irishgunner says:

    There are only TWO matches on Wednesday and SBS pick Bayern vs Fiorentina ……… C’MOOOOOOOOOOOOON who in Australia follow any of these??

    Having said that I will watch it.

  68. irishgunner says:

    Pity we don’t see more of that money Livers, all in Platini’s pocket.

  69. Livers says:

    Yeah it’s sneaky Irish… all so more games are seen by everyone, but it’s bloody drawing it out a bit. Play this week then 3 weeks time…….anything can happen in that time

  70. irishgunner says:

    Exactly Livers.

    It gives Chelsea a chance to recoup after their FA Cup match as well since they don’t play till next week.

    You watching the Mancs tomorrow night? I think Milan could do them. They have Pato back and Ronaldinho has found some form.

  71. Rasputin says:

    Chamakh scored yesterday. I’m getting quite excited about the prospect seeing him at the Arsenal.

  72. Livers says:

    Irish, I don’t think too much of Milan’s chances to be honest. It’s the same team we beat 2-0 over their but swap Ronaldindho and Kaka around..

    Rasp – is there any official word on him actually coming. I’m sure ALL the press can’t be wrong and guess Arsenal always do it in the correct time.. but there’s been no quotes from agents, managers et al to confirm?

  73. London says:

    Rasp

    Have you got a link?

  74. Hartwick89 says:

    You really don’t do the justice of the Arsenal finances really… It is evident that half empty half full is appropriate with your comments on the half empty. Maybe you should read other site’s who are experts of financing especially in regards to the alternate (Portsmouth, ManIOU, Liverpool etc.) You would quickly realize this club because of it’s financing will outlast and be around. Just my thoughts you knuckle head,

  75. irishgunner says:

    Livers – Milan are a Champions League team though. They love it and are always primed to pull a surprise. I agree that on paper and with an logical thought it seems like its Uniteds to lose but Milan could spring a surprise.

  76. irishgunner says:

    Hartwick – your comments are very welcome but no name calling please.

  77. London says:

    Livers

    As you say, and I certainly agree, Arsenal do it in the right way but you sound like you have supported Arsenal for long enough to see that the Chamakh deal has got Wenger written all over it.

    Furthermore, with Liverpool making it public that they are not involved this one is surely a done deal.

  78. irishgunner says:

    Or do we allow name calling? 😆 someone fill me in

  79. London says:

    Hatwick

    Why don’t you give us your reasons on a point by point basis as to why you think the writer is wrong.

  80. Rasputin says:

    Irish,

    We don’t encourage name calling and try to lead by example 🙂 It’s all spelt out in the ‘about us’ tab above. No-one gets binned but anyone who is repeatedly offensive will not be welcome.

    Hartwick made his point very well, he didn’t need to add the insult at the end because that detracted from his argument.

  81. Big Raddy says:

    Alfa. Wonderful !!

    As usual the bloggers who insult have no back up argument. Hopefully they have the nuts to come back here and explain why they hold their opinions-

    However, and this is purely based on what I have read on the ‘net, we appear to be through the worst of our economic difficulties.

    The Highbury development is on track to give a profit thanks to the sustainability of property prices in North London. It has been reported that there are only a very few flats left for sale.

  82. irishgunner says:

    So was I right in what I said or not?

    I’m confuddled and you know how hard it is to confuse me 😆

  83. Livers says:

    London – yeah I agree.. it smells of Wenger…

    let’s face it, before last summer no-one had heard of him..

  84. Hartwick89 says:

    Pologize for the namecalling.
    Start with the alternate….
    Seems that would include a number of clubs that are in real dire straits.
    Portsmouth for example they have been most publicized as of late.
    ManIOU not so publicized…
    They are in such good financial standing they had to float a bond just to cover their debt.,,
    Arsenal…
    It is true we have new debt pressures but they are investment related.
    I realize there is a certain faction of Arsenal Support that are infatuated with buying, buying, buying…But, that’s where Arsenal are better and not on the verge of finacial collapse.
    So really what we have here is not an argument about Arsenal going broke because it’s not true…
    But, a disagreement on our long term player policy…by the way which I support!

  85. irishgunner says:

    Have to agree with Hartwick here.

    Compared to Mancs, Pompey, Liverpool we look okay financially don’t we?

  86. Hartwick89 says:

    Again sorry for the name calling I was just exasparated at another Wenger hit piece…

  87. Rasputin says:

    No worries Hartwick,

    I think most of us agree with you.

  88. Tommo says:

    How much did that fat Russian c@nt pay you for this bollox?

  89. irishgunner says:

    We all do at times Hartwick, I’m worst than most ha ha

    Welcome to Arsenal Arsenal by the way, hope you stick around.

  90. Big Raddy says:

    Hardwick. I agree with you.

    There is no doubt that The Arsenal have a financial blueprint that is the envy of other clubs.

    No-one on AA is anti- Wenger. Some are realists, others fantasists, but we are all rabid Gooners 🙂

  91. Alfa says:

    Hartwick, no sweat, I agree we are stronger financially than many but not as strong as the board keep making out. Appreciate your comments though, welcome to AA.

    I don’t knock Arsene at all, quite the opposite. My point is that he isn’t being stubborn or picky, he is just operating under financial constraints that he is too loyal to be honest about. I don’t blame him but it’s getting a bit farcical.

    BR, the property situation is getting better in North London but my estimate is that the development was supposed to provide a big windfall and it hasn’t done that.

    As for the comment about us seeing the benefits of selling Ade etc., are we a selling club now then? The figures suggest that we are, although you could also say the same about Man U now if you take Ronaldo into account.

  92. Big Raddy says:

    Jealous Tommo ??

  93. Rasputin says:

    Message to everyone ……

    As a result of the ‘passionate responses’ to alfa’s post today, we will be setting up a ‘Guest Authors’ tab at the top.

    This will enable anyone with a strong view or just expertise or enthusiasm to send us an article that we will publish when appropriate. This hopefully will encourage an expanded argument beyond ‘Bollocks’ and means they can present a counter argument to the post that has stimulated their involvement.

  94. irishgunner says:

    Anyone bored enough to go check the transfers in and out over the last few seasons since we moved to the Emirates?

    I reckon they pretty much even out.

  95. Rasputin says:

    They do exactly that Irish. I can’t remember where, but a site has done a balance sheet for all the Wenger years and the latter haf has been break even.

  96. Definitely not a Wenger hit piece Hartwick – just asking a few questions……..

    Tommo – if the russian wanted to pay for exposure he wouldn’t be using us.

  97. irishgunner says:

    So he is spending the money he is getting from transfers Rasp so that’s a truth in favour of Wenger.

  98. Hartwick89 says:

    Thanks I just added to my favs…
    Alpha,
    my only dispute is did you write the article because it is your belief Arsenal are going broke or rather are you annoyed with The Arsenal for not winning and therefore blame his AW youth policy?
    As for selling Ade probably not a bad thing other than injuries as of late…
    Selling Club? Who are we selling and when they got there what have they done?

  99. Rasputin says:

    I’d say so Irish.

    I wish he didn’t have a blind spot for keepers. We’ve said many times that Given was ready and wanting to come to us before citeh got rich. I think we’d have at least another 6 points if we had a top class keeper.

    I never thought I’d feel nostalgic about mad Jens. Amunia pulled off a brilliant save against pool but the rest of his play and his ‘lack of presence’ are the problem IMO.

  100. irishgunner says:

    The year we sold PV04, Pennant (haha), Taylor, Bentley (more ha ha), Quincy and Bobby left on a free we signed Bendtner, Mannone, Walcott, Rosicky, Diaby, Adebayor, Traore and Hleb (over the two windows)

  101. As far as I remember the profit from the Highbury Square development was never intended to be used to pay off any of the Stadium mortgage. The mortgage was set up at a sustainable rate for the next however many years – 25 for example.

    Arsenal Football Club felt that they wanted to develop Highbury themselves and take the profit for the development rather than let someone else have it. It was never going to be a huge injection of cash, possible enough to buy a couple of players – not superstars.

    The falacy that the club has been held back through them developing the site themselves is ungrounded. The cost of developing the site will have run into millions and if the football club were paying for that we definitely would be broke.

  102. Rasputin says:

    Thanks for the link Livers – puts everything into perspective.

  103. irishgunner says:

    Good link Livers.

    Still can’t believe we left Bischoff go on a free…

  104. Rasputin says:

    We must average 2nd / 3rd in the prem since 1992 yet we’re 11th in the average net +/- per year below the likes of Brum, Sunderland and Fulham and just above Wolves.

  105. irishgunner says:

    Wait, wait that link said we paid more for Nasri (£17mil) than Arshavin (£15mil) and that isn’t right.

  106. irishgunner says:

    Soccerbase.com reckon we paid more for Nasri than Arshavin as well.

    Doesn’t make sense, I thought Wiltord was our most expensive signing till AA23 came?

  107. Livers says:

    Actually Irish, I’m pretty sure that is right

  108. Livers says:

    Nasri 15.8m

  109. irishgunner says:

    Well I learned something new ha ha Why is AA lauded as our most expensive transfer then?

    I didn’t think we paid that much for Nasri, I thought it was £13m

  110. Livers says:

    Not sure mate.. I think it was because AA was “undisclosed” so they “assume”

  111. irishgunner says:

    Yeah been looking back through the news database on AA and it doesn’t say he was our record signing.

  112. London says:

    Arsenal’s most expensive transfer remains Wiltord.

  113. Rasputin says:

    Hi London,

    Just to reassure you, no comments have been deleted nor bloggers banned.

  114. Hartwick89 says:

    Just a couple of other thoughts…..In reading over the article
    Aston Villa & Everton do we know what finances are like over there before we attack Arsenal and glorify them?
    How about there youth system?

  115. London says:

    It’s turned out quite well today Rasp, I like your idea of an authors box above. It’s like the Wikipedia of Arsenal blogs 😉

  116. irishgunner says:

    Bedtime – laters all.

  117. London says:

    This seems to give a simple explanation as what is happening at Highbury square.

    “London & Stamford, which is based in Guernsey and led by Raymond Mould and Patrick Vaughan, has paid £41.4m for 142 one and two-bedroom flats, four three-bedroom flats and 98 parking bays. (For the North Bank)

    Arsenal took on debts of more than £130m to fund the conversion of its former home ground”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/6240911/Arsenal-accepts-lowball-offer-for-vacant-Highbury-Square-flats.html

    Here’s the math: If the North Bank was sold for £41 million and is obviously one quarter of the ground then common sense dictates that the club will take in £164 million from the total sales, if the total build cost £130 million then the profit is going to be in the region of £34 million.

    If the club make £34 million in this climate I reckon they will be happy…….and so will I as we can then go back to exclusively being a football club and not part time estate agents.

  118. Rasputin says:

    Thanks London.

    I’m very keen to get the message across that the site belongs to the bloggers. They may come on one day and read a post that gets them fuming, the next they could find themselves in total agreement and the following day they could be the author who is receiving the accolades/abuse 😉

  119. London says:

    I think when you offer bloggers that option you will probably have to spell it out to them: Write a post put it in the authors’ box and it will be used as a head line post.

  120. Hartwick89 says:

    And yet another thought,

    In regards to Usmanov. Well, you cite Aston Villa (Owner being Lerner) who have not posted a profit, yet.
    What makes you think Usmanov who would be a model comparable to Chelsea would continue in a manner that would benefit the club least of all you with a ticket price reduction?
    As far as I have seen billionaires are that not because they have love for you and fair prices… but, because they see ways to get paid. Not necessarily as a benefit to the club (Glazers ManIOU).

  121. Thanks London for finding that piece about the finances of the flats – I had the figure of £30m profit in my head but didn’t remember where from.

    I went to a meeting at Highbury for accountants before the construction started and when I heard £30m profit I wasn’t sure it would be worth the aggravation of getting into the construction game but £30m is not to be sneezed at.

  122. tommystout says:

    i don’t think 30m would be the profit they looked at…
    as an architect i wouldn’t have even bothered developing it on those terms, they would have got more than that just for the sale of the site alone.

    700 plus properties with the cheapest around the 300k mark serviceing 130m loan would generate 213m in sales which would be a 83m profit. this is a much more realistic outcome even in todays market.

  123. Joe says:

    The board wont agree the share thing, the more they reduce Arsenals debt the more we are worth when they sell. Its a shame but we have no cash. The board will ride Wenger out till he retires. Hes an incredible coach, he should leave and go do a job where he has a level playing field.

  124. ICEMAN says:

    THIS A SPURS BLOG

  125. kelsey says:

    No Iceman we are like John Lewis a co operative 😉

  126. London says:

    Tommystout

    Welcome to AA, I think this is your first time.

    I do agree with your view that the club were probably hoping for a profit of about £80 mil, that being justification enough to take on the initial responsibility. What I am saying is with the economic situation being what it is the guess now seems to be that the club will come out with a profit of around £30 mil. If they had known that I am sure they wouldn’t have bothered as they could have easily sold the project onto a third party with a £30 mil profit from the outset but hey ho they weren’t the only long established business who failed to see what was coming as Lehman Bros will attest.

  127. Rasputin says:

    Hi Iceman,

    Read back and go through earlier posts before you form any opinion. We’ve been going 9 days, 6 different authors, 12 posts, many of which are supportive of Arsene and all of which are supportive of Arsenal.

  128. SUGA3 says:

    Come on you Spuds!

    😆

    yellow card accepted – hell, even a red for going in ‘spuds up’…

    good read Alfa – where’s my money? 😉

  129. Hi SUGA have you finished saving the world for the day 🙂

  130. Now go and wash your mouth out 😳

  131. Big Raddy says:

    Rasputin. Perhaps Iceman is a lost soul using the word “Spurs” as a compliment. Some kind of street language like the current use of the word “sick” as a positive 🙂

    London. Your assumption was based upon receipts for the cheapest apartments (job lot of 1/2 beds). The penthouses and 3/4 beds are much dearer, as is the individual cost of an apartment, as such the net profit will be higher

  132. Thanks tommystout for that info from your perspective, whatever the amount it wasn’t ever going to change the world of Arsenal transfers which is where a lot of unrest originates.

  133. Hi Raddy – the overall profit is still not a huge amount – as a property development its probably an acceptable profit – but in terms of escalating prices for top players its a drop in the ocean.

    Developing Highbury Square ourselves wasn’t ever going to change the way Arsenal and Arsene do business.

  134. SUGA3 says:

    peaches,

    nope, still over 2 hours to go 😦

    I already did!

  135. Alfa says:

    Hi all, back again.

    Some good thoughts coming in. Hartwick, good question, simple answer. I don’t think we are going broke as in bankrupt. I do think we have very little cash. I’m not annoyed with Arsene, I think the club is literally strapped for cash and he has been performing a miracle. I don’t think the miracle will last, not because of Arsene, but because of the cash situation.

    I was delighted we sold Lazyboyor and double delighted we got so much. I only brought up the selling club comment because someone used his sale to show that we had plenty of money. Its a shame citeh have taught him the offside rule now but it won’t last.

    Re the transfers, as at the beginning of this season I also believe it was a breakeven situation. According to the Lazard/Peston analysis, in recent years Arsenal have net broken even. So that ties in with irish’s info. The other big four clubs have net spent c.£20m per season. Obviously since then there have been some big Arsenal and other transfers but that was the average over a period.

    Re the profit on the property development, maybe it is going to be £34m, but as tommystout pointed out that isn’t a very commercial return, for a project that tied up so many resources over such a long time. If they expected £80m and are getting £34m that would seem to support my point of view that the money from the flats won’t help much in paying off the Emirates loan.

  136. Rasputin says:

    Thanks Raddy,

    We’ve risen from 13th to 8th on ‘Top of the Blogs’ today – not bad for a spud site 😉

  137. Alfa says:

    SUGA, I’ve asked ‘arry’s accountant to wire it to you at the usual Monaco bank account 😉

    Got to dash but back to survey the fallout later.

  138. Alfa says:

    Rasp, I guess that is in terms of hits rather than support for the view expressed?

    🙂

  139. Rasputin says:

    Haha Alfa – either way, it’s all down to you 😆

  140. Have you seen the hits alfa – we’ve been working ourselves into the ground for you 😉

  141. Hartwick89 says:

    Oh by the way I have been educated by (Untold Arsenal). You should check it out.. It will give you confidence about the going broke argument. In essence we are very formidable according to most accounts while the other teams are or will be in serious jeopardy..

  142. Stroller says:

    Why rely on assumptions and maybe’s from outside sources? The club is bound to produce financial statements and answer to them at the AGM. If it failed to do it would be in breach of financial regulations and the directors liable under the law. That’s what Accountants are there for, as shareholders must not be misled.

  143. tommystout says:

    “untold arsenal” very good very good indeed… bookmarked!

  144. Rasputin says:

    We can’t have too many good Arsenal sites. Untold Arsenal ranks amongst the best. We will try to get a reciprocal link. Thanks guys.

  145. Hartwick89 says:

    @Rasputin,

    anytime. thanks for the opportunity to voice..

  146. Big Raddy says:

    Welcome Stroller.

    ARe you schooled in the George Graham School of Economy ? So much can be hidden in accounts: check out the wonderful world of Banking to see how financial statements can be massaged.

    But I take your point.

  147. kelsey says:

    Great guns lads and lasses. I wish I could join in a bit more, but for the moment that is not possible.

    Stroller, great user name as BR and I watched him play many times.

    Untold Arsenal is a site I know quite a lot about.Peaches will confirm that (I hope)

  148. Big Raddy says:

    I am sure this has been said before, but may I say how pissed off I am that Arse.Com are no longer showing the reserve games.

    I pay my monthly fee primarily for the Reserve games and once again I have been shafted by Corporation Arsenal …. gggggrrrrrrrr

  149. Rasputin says:

    Careful Raddy, next thing you know, a steward will come on here and tell you to sit down! 😆

    Nice to hear from you kelsey, any contribution from you is valued 😛

  150. London says:

    Alfa

    I think you’re falling into the trap of thinking that the club are under pressure to pay the loan back that they took out to build the Emirates. There is no reason to assume this; that loan was refinanced in the form of a bond issue which will comfortably be paid back over the next twenty five years, it’s a mortgage and the repayments are very much under control.

    Rasp

    I have written a point for point answer to Alfa’s post, it could almost be a post itself; what do you think?

    I will put it in drafts, it still needs work on which I will do if you think it could be used, if not, no probs, I will just put it up as a general comment.

  151. Hi Raddy – I read somewhere that subscribers were demanding their money back as many people like you and I had kept it going to watch the reserves games – shall I see if I can find the info.

    London – I think its a good idea, I’ll run it by rasp in a while….how many words?

  152. Alfa says:

    London, I know the loan is effectively a mortgage and the repayments are not so great compared to the overall revenue of the club. The problem is that we are paying out so much in wages etc., like everyone, that there is very little left over after the repayments and all the other costs. We are being very prudent – that’s the point. We are having to be prudent because we don’t have a lot of cash. We are generating profits but most of that is not in money that can be spent.

    I still come back to the point that if we had the cash we’d be spending it. If I’m totally wrong about the finances, then where has all of the money gone as a few of the comments today have asked?

    Having said that, I think your post would be a great idea, love to see it. Be good if all of the bloggers came back on and supported it or whatever.

    Despite all the fun and games today, I am not overly concerned about the financial situation; in the end we are in a much stronger position than most. I just tried to answer a question about why we aren’t buying any players and I think the problem is financial rather than Arsene being stubborn.

    Why does everyone hate Usmanov so much but not Kroenke?

  153. Hartwick89 says:

    Alfa,
    I believe that we obtain only those players who can add to our system both on/off the pitch. Hence Andre, Nasri to name a few. Otherwise Wenger/Gazidis believe there is more inherent value in keeping a team intact from youth to first team. What you are about to witness is that value explode to a golden era that no one will be able to imagine…. Sit tight and enjoy while other clubs begin to disappear.

  154. London says:

    Good comment that Hartwick.

  155. London says:

    Alfa

    We are being prudent and as you say that is the point but here is where we either chose to make the leap of faith or not. I believe that the club would make any amount of money available to buy whoever Wenger wanted. The problem is player availability or lack of it. The second leap of faith is, you either chose believe Wenger, or not, when he says that players are simply not available or certainly not those who are better than we already have, my choice is to believe him.

  156. London says:

    Why does everyone hate Uzamanov? Apart from being a slimy, metal trading, man u supporter, nobody has ever been able to to give a good reason why he would be good for the club or how he would improve it.

    This is balanced against Kronke whose whole life is dedicated to sport so he understands sporting brands, sponsorship deals; dealing with players, managers and ohhh I almost forgot he is a billionaire.

  157. SUGA3 says:

    London,

    I reckon some supporters are really disillusioned with all this ‘nearly signings’ and ‘better than we already have’ spin – I mean, come on: we have a few flops on our books and instead of dumping them to ressies to teach them some humility we extend their contracts…

    I ain’t saying no names…

  158. London says:

    Suga

    I understand why there is growing number of disillusioned Arsenal supporters and I am not trying to say that they are wrong, my point is simply that I am not one of them, I believe Wenger when he said he tried to get David Villa for example.

  159. London says:

    Suga

    Name and shame the players, who do you mean?

  160. Alfa – the future survival for any super club is the self sustainable model.

    Look at what is happening to pompey, that WILL 100% happen on a grader scale to chelski when their owner pulls the plug.

    now that might be next year, or in 10 years… but it WILL happen.

    to answer your question as to why we prefer stan the man to jabbs the hut is simple.

    jabba wants us to sell our soul to the devil in order we raise 100m to fund player acquisitions

    stan wants us to stay within our means and keep building upon the self sustainable model.

    jabba, is a two faced wretch.. he tried to turn less informed gooners his way with the ” lets go buy mess ” type banter

    please… anybody who fell for that needs help.

  161. London – can you have a look in drafts, I thought an introduction to your post would be nice as we’re on the same team, I think its mean to look like we’ve hung alfa out to dry – let me know what you think. Obviously you can write your own – don’t shout at me 😦

  162. London says:

    Alfa

    Jabba as you probably guessed is Usamanov.

  163. sorry, yes..

    jabba = usmanov

  164. Hartwick89 says:

    london,
    As I was reading suga I was thinking what your responses were…

    Also, I don’t even want to contemplate a Kroenke either….

    I say
    ‘let it be

  165. SUGA3 says:

    London,

    I really don’t like going into player bashing unless the emotions are running high after a woeful performance, however, one of my ‘favourites’ is Denilson: as far as I am concerned, he is a Reserve League player at the moment, yet he has the cheek to say that he wouldn’t play there as he is the first team player…

    did he not get a contract extension recently? and for what? his transfer fee was around £4M, don’t know what wage he is on at the moment, but can you see us recouping what we have spent on him if we were to offload him in the summer? I can’t…

    another flop is Fabianski – as you know, I am Polish and I watched him for some time before he came to Arsenal: all my fellow Polish Gooners said it was a poor buy the very moment he came and we should have sold him to PSG when we had a chance…

    and oh, by the way – yes, I may believe that AW went for Villa, but probably did not want to go anywhere near the market value…

  166. I believe AW when he says that players of improved quality aren’t available – I’m certain he’d sign them if he could find them.

    The problem I have is with the poor decision making, keeping certain players on the pitch when they are making error after error – what other top manager would keep Denilson on the pitch when hes giving the ball away more than finding an Arsenal player. Allowing Almunia to continue to be a liability.

    DID WE TRY TO GET A STRIKER ON LOAN FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON ANYONE – DOESN’T HAVE TO PLAY WENGERBALL JUST NEEDS TO BE 6’2″+ AND KNOW WHERE THE BACK OF THE NET IS

  167. London says:

    Peaches you are far too kind…I jest….yes it probably needed an intro. So do you want to go ahead with it? If so let me know because it obviously needs work?

  168. I feel a peaches dearest coming on 😦

  169. Well done not a dearest in sight – have a look, its in drafts – I’ve had a glass of wine now so I’m not gonna be able to re-write it too well 😉

  170. SUGA3 says:

    Adriano was one of the possible loan targets IMO and Gazidis shold have pulled a few American strings to get him…

    yes, he may be mad as a hatter, but so is Sol 😉

  171. Hartwick89 says:

    Sorry boys I disagree with the Denilson rant…

    How old is he?

    And, it is a matter of opinion….

    First it was Flamini, then it was Eboue, then Diabi, Walcott, and now Denilson?

    Give them room to breathe… Of course criticism is part of the professional deal but have some courtesy and patience…

  172. I love Sol – don’t diss Sol 😆

    I see we have the same view on Denilson though

  173. London says:

    Suga

    Three points there, first one, Denilson, still too early to get rid of him, he was playing well until he got his injury, second Fabianski, most keepers don’t come into their own until they are in their late twenties so yet again a bit too early to want to get rid of him and lastly Villa, step one in signing Villa is for Villa to want to play for Arsenal and that was the first stumbling block I doubt if the clubs got anywhere near talking about the fee.

  174. SUGA3 says:

    peaches,

    I don’t diss Sulzeer – I love the fella, no matter how mad he is 😉

    Hartwick,

    this is not a nursery/academy/charity – football is a result business and if you’re not good enough, then you need to drop down a level, simples…

    it’s hard to be patient when you see him being at fault for at least 2 out of 3 ManYoo goals…

  175. Hartwick – I loved Denilson when he was in the reserves – he moved and looked like Cesc on the pitch. Last season he was thrown in at the deep end when we lost Flamini and had to play in important role rather than be Cescs understudy. Hes not ready or good enough. He can do one job – collect the ball and pass to Cesc but this season hes been moved around and had to make decisions – not good at making decisions IMO

  176. I think you’re right on the stumbling block for Villa London – if he wanted to come he needed to come out and say so. Cesc wanted him to come or so we believe – who knows……we certainly don’t

  177. Hartwick89 says:

    Again we can definately have a discussion about faults. I guess it’s what seperates some fans from others. My only point is Denislon is good enough and will be an impact player and soon.

  178. SUGA3 says:

    London,

    Villa said he liked Arsenal and would consider a move – if we only offered £1.5M for Saha, how much do you think we offered for Villa?

    we are skint, remember? it’s like a street bum walking into Ritz and asking if he can dine there 😉

    and Denilson only played well in the cups when he played in Cesc role, but he is absolutely woeful in DM…

    as for Fabianski, he just doesn’t have it in him – I mean, look at Szczesny: he is already class above Lukasz being 4 years younger…

    then again, it’s my opinion…

  179. the good news about denilson is that he clearly has talent.. we all saw it when he played for the carling cup side a 2/3 seasons ago.

    takes some player longer than others to fully adapt to the rigours of first team footy.

    he played something like 40 games last season and then got injured and i don’t believe he has been fully fit this year… hence that appaling collapse against everton and the lack of tracking back against stoke and manure.

    he will come good.. just as song and diaby have.

  180. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    I can do no more than respectfully disagree – if you think Denilson is good enough, then you are easily pleased…

  181. London says:

    I feel a dearest coming on….that is funny. Peaches I have seen it and think your suggestion is very good, it needed a female touch, and I certainly intend to use it.
    When I said it needed work I was referring to what I had written. I am going to work on the basis that I will put it up tomorrow, I will take the match report which just leaves the pre match. I’ve never been able to write those I am usually too nervous on the day, it needs BR Churchillian style rallying call 😉

  182. suga – you were more than likely making the same noises about song this time last year.

    give the lad time.

  183. SUGA3 says:

    Stringfellow,

    I recall him playing in more advanced role in the cups these few seasons back and I have to say I liked him a lot: he is just not enough of a defensive player to make it as a sole DM…

    too slow, too weak, too small – he had a few good games this season and neither of them was when he played DM…

  184. Hartwick89 says:

    Suga,

    Point I was making is clear that the manager trumps me and trumps you…If it weren’t so than players even Cesc would have been let go a long time ago if you were manager… And, the point clearly stands that this manager moves for players within the system and when they become too much of a liability (Senderos) they are not re-signed.

  185. irishgooner says:

    Irishgunner: Don’t see why I should change my name as it is clearly not the same as yours???
    What is this, another arsenal forum with VIP’s n big egos?
    Change yours….(:-)

  186. I don’t really understand what the point of this piece is. You say the numbers come from a reporter but there is no link to his actual report. For a fuller look at the most recent financial results published by the Club, see: http://arsenalstation.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/the-truth-about-arsenals-financial-state/

  187. SUGA3 says:

    Stringfellow,

    ever since the last ACN, I have been saying Song will come good – I am reasonable enough to give credit and criticism where it’s due instead of giving lame ducks ‘more time’ and losing in the process: repeating the same mistakes and expecting different outcome is insane 😉

  188. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    no, he wouldn’t – Cesc had much more talent, which was obvious to see, plus, he developed alongside true greats…

    if I was the manager, I would have signed a monster DM and dumped Denilson to ressies (or sold him) instead of moaning about physical approach…

  189. i concur with hartwick

    the manager trumps us all put together times 1 billion.

    so if denilson is good enough for him, he is good enough for this gooner.

  190. Hartwick89 says:

    The famous “If I were a manager” well If I were rich man….. And Stringfellow Hawke it is good enough for this gooner too.

  191. SUGA3 says:

    frankly, I hope Eastmond will be selected to start on Wednesday and this will spell the end of the failed ‘Denilson DM’ experiment…

  192. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    it was you who started suggesting what I would do if I was the manager, no?

  193. London says:

    Hartwick

    Ironically, I think that Wenger would have loved to have kept Senderos, he made good back up, it was Senderos in my opinion, who wanted to leave. It is not easy finding players of a high enough quality that are prepared to spend the best part of the season sitting on the bench.

  194. London says:

    SFH

    Isn’t one the points of a blog to discuss our likes and dislikes of players. I would be over the moon if Wenger bought a replacement for Denilson.

  195. SUGA3 says:

    I have always rated Phil – he has been poorly managed by AW, really: it was reinstating malaria infested Toure after his return from ACN (where he was woeful, btw) and dumping Phil that did it for him…

    and selecting Silvestre to be the sub ahead of him…

  196. London – you are a star and clearly inspired. I thought having London in the title would add gravitas – do you fancy doing that too……. not my title but something like that

  197. sure is london, discuss away pal

    i certainly never suggested one should or should not.

    MY view is stated, that’s all. 😉

  198. Hartwick89 says:

    My suggestion of being a manager was rhetorical of course….

  199. SUGA3 says:

    so was mine…

  200. Hartwick89 says:

    Senderos another scab lose from my brain…. Of course the AC Milan stint was his last hoorah… AW knew he was toast after that…

  201. Hartwick89 says:

    Suga,

    We agree to disagree then per the guidelines of the site… You dislike Denilson and I have belief in him…

  202. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    I only wish he was given as many chances as a certain Godfather of Crab Football…

    you don’t watch too many internationals, do you? Sendy is still brilliant for Switzerland – WC is just a few months away, watch this space and cry…

  203. irishgooner – tongue in cheek from Irishgunner, shes a very well respected blogger who writes for the bleachereport too – she regularly blogs here so it was a bit confusing to some. Don’t take offence 🙂

  204. SUGA3 says:

    it’s not like I ‘dislike’ him – it’s probably not even his fault that he is played in position he is not suited for…

    I am just saying that he is more of an attacking player and playing him in DM is a square peg round hole thing…

  205. Hartwick89 says:

    Suga,

    Then he shall be given his just rewards… I liked Phil but just felt he was a marked man especially when it came to Drogba…But then what Arsenal CB isn’t? But seriously he hopefully will prosper for SUI and Everton…. Great players play great”

  206. suga – i agree sendeross does well for switzerland… he is suited to the slow build up play of international football..

    but the fast paced hustle and bustle of the premiership will always expose him in the end

    players are getting faster and faster… he will only get slower and slower.

  207. Square peg roundhole thing – we excel at that 😛

  208. Whats intersting about Senderos is that AW lost faith in him and we can’t see why, whereas we’ve lost faith in Denilson and Almunia and can’t see why AW hasn’t.

  209. London says:

    I’m out for a while.

  210. SUGA3 says:

    SFH,

    Senderos is not slow – so he got ‘exposed’ by Torres and Drogba: name me a CB that didn’t 😉

    yes, he may not have the tightest turning circle, but has presence, good passing range, great aerial ability and is quite intelligent…

    frankly, I would play him in DM ahead of Denilson any day…

  211. Ok London, I think I’ve finished giving you instructions 😆

  212. senderos got plenty of chances, he always failed in the end.

  213. senderos is not slow? 😆

  214. SUGA3 says:

    no, he is not – definitely faster than Denilson…

  215. Hartwick89 says:

    Peaches,

    Seriously? Sendie… Vermaelen or Senderos. Gallas. I don’t know what to say probably have to be in that time period to remember the frustration of Senderos.. I recollect Aston Villa and an own goal… I don’t know I have moved on since then.. As for Denilson it is clear from my stand-point… Well Almunia May is not here yet and I haven’t looked at his contract yet…. But I was reading the Arsenal Column in terms of the Arsenal Tacticals and he makes a great case for why GK’s are vulnerable with the Arsenal set-up. A good read less opinion more tactics

  216. I don’t think its fair to say Senderos failed in the end – he got undone by Drogba and Torres – he was solid when part of the CB pairing that got us to the Champs Lge final – he was a great organiser and never minded sticking his head in – not like Arsene to drop a player……very strange

  217. suga – if you honestly believe senderos is not slow, you have been watching a different player.

    describe this “pacey” swiss centre back you speak of…

  218. peaches – wenger has dropped many players over the years

    or were you having a sly pop?

  219. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    how do you explain the fact that at some point we had the least shots on our goal but conceded about every second attempt then?

    Almunia not there yet? hello? he is 32…

  220. The own goal against Villa is hardly fair – it was in the first moments of that game and he was clearing the line – thats what centre backs do.

  221. SUGA3 says:

    SFH,

    I would rather ask you to describe the ‘good enough’ backup DM – he has no pace either (referee overtaking him was a final nail in his coffin for me), Phil at least has some presence…

  222. SUGA3 says:

    *the final nail

  223. suga – you made that up… when did i say denilson was a good enough backup DM?

  224. to be fair suga.. what the hell you doing comparing a centre back and a midfielder?

    they are 2 separate positions and independant arguments, continually cross referencing does not support your viewpoint.

  225. SUGA3 says:

    er,

    ‘so if denilson is good enough for him, he is good enough for this gooner’

    and AW continues with selecting him for that role and sees him as a backup DM…

    I rest my case…

  226. SUGA3 says:

    SFH,

    OK: Sly or Senderos?

  227. no, i believe in denilson as a great prospect for arsenal, as does wenger.

    DM is not his future position, at the moment he covers there.

    he could develop into the position.. never put it past wenger… but with eastmond, frimpong and le coq coming through .. i see him as a very good squad player covering any of the midfield trio berths.

  228. Hartwick89 says:

    Suga….

    You have to accept the team as is? I can’t change it and belly aching about it is distracting and you can’t change it… I hope for the team’s sake Denilson does well don’t you? Anyway, I am up for Porto aren’t you or are you going to have a coronary with yet another player before we win in Porto?

  229. SUGA3 says:

    well, it does, as long as you understand my viewpoint being that AW does occasionally get it wrong 😉

    hattrick?

  230. suga – campbell 🙂

  231. naturally he gets it wrong on occassion, as do all managers.

    so? hardly a point to debate.

  232. Big Raddy says:

    Correct me if I am wrong. but Senderos is on loan at Everton is he not?

    He wanted first team football in order to guarantee a place in the WC. If that is the case & he plays a stormer in SA, he is still contracted to us and will either earn us a big fee or be WG’s replacement.

  233. Hartwick89 says:

    Never suggested AW was less than human…. I would love a hattrick!

  234. SUGA3 says:

    Hartwick,

    well, I can hope as long as it’s anywhere near being reasonable, simple as: I am rather cynical and I think there is too much at stake 😉

    SFH,

    take Sulzeer out of the equation: I am referring to time when the choice was between the other two…

  235. Good point Raddy, I forgot he was on loan.

    We should get more players on loan – did I mention a striker would have been a plan 😉

  236. suga – sendross needed playing time ahead of the WC as BR has mentioned…

    there was never a choice, unless wenger wanted to be selfish… and let him rot in the reserves in a WC year.

  237. Hartwick89 says:

    BigRaddy,

    Great point! But, I get the suspicion on both sides he is out…

  238. SUGA3 says:

    BR,

    Sendy is as good as gone and if he plays a stormer in the WC, he will only attract clubs prepared to offer him first team football or sign for Everton – I love the fella and always thought he was a Gunner through and through…

    it was really painful to see him on the bench trying to earn brownie points with AW and watching Sly selected instead…

  239. Hartwick89 says:

    Peaches,

    May is around the corner…not here yet sounds as though you are convinced we have no shot….

  240. SH – no need for that language just cos its after the watershed – can I insert an asterix? Being a girl its rather offensive

  241. Hartwick89 says:

    forgive my ignorance who is sly?

  242. ooops 😦

    sorry, yup please edit to suit

  243. Hartwick89 says:

    never mind…silvestre

  244. SUGA3 says:

    SFH,

    thing is, Phil was neither in the ressies nor in the first team, was he?

    and that, my dear friend, is poor management…

  245. Hartwick89 says:

    got me….Thanks

  246. Not at all Hartwick my glass is always almost filled to the brim – I just feel that with a bit of tweaking AW could have made life easier for himself and the team.

    I love this team, I love the football we play, we’ve had the injustice of serious injuries to key players when those in reserve are not quite good enough, thats the problem as I see it – just being realistic really.

  247. i think the mental breakdown following the torres champs league game.. cost PS his chances at arsenal.

  248. SUGA3 says:

    all right, muchachos y muchacha(s) – off to catch some Zs 😉

  249. Hartwick89 says:

    Peaches,

    Funny you mention reserves as we just beat chelsea….2-1 Also just read seamen’s take on Almunia…”He is satisfied.

  250. Good thing we can beat the chavs somehow 🙂

    Catch you all tomorrow, nite nite

  251. Gooner says:

    http://www.goals.se/en/2010/02/10/highlights-arsenal-liverpool-1-0/ for the highlights against liverpool!

    there is also a competition to win a replica, see the website for more information. 😀 Oh to be a gooner

  252. Gooner – have you seen the great video we’ve got in our Video Library – A night at the Emirates….

  253. […] Arsenal – going broke? Ever since the Man. U and Chelsea matches, the big question for all Gooners has resurfaced again. Why aren’t we […] […]

  254. Big Raddy says:

    What about the proposal of a play-off for the 4th CL place.

    The FA looking for a chunk of UEFA’s huge money spinner?

    IMO no top club will go for it as it adds another 6 games to the season – but who knows.

  255. kelsey says:

    BR morning,

    Personally, I feel we already play too much football in England,though of course it all goes into the coffers of Sky and alike.The CL should remain with 4 PL clubs but make it a knockout 2 leg competition from the start.Once out,that’s it,not a second chance to go into the later stages of the Europa Cup.The you have the meaningless Inter Toto Cup,yet another competition not many are interested in.Restore the FA Cup to the days when it really meant something and let the Carling Cup be open to any club that wants to parcitipate.Our club though having moderate success in reaching CC Finals, does not make it a priority anymore, more a learning curve for some of the less experienced players.

  256. London says:

    New Post

    BR and Kelsey, please copy and paste your comments onto the new post

  257. Interim Management Philippines

    Arsenal

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