Despite the fact we have discussed the Mr. Ramsey situation for over a year I feel that we will have to do so again., after all over 1200 comments on the BBC website following his statement shows a high level of interest.
And what is the focus of the ire? His wages and the level of inefficiency of the Arsenal negotiating team.
My response to both is that there is a misconception based upon ignorance.
Let’s start with the wages.
Aaron Ramsey is a very high profile player in the world’s most popular sport. His wages pale into insignificance when discussing high earners in a minority sport like American football or baseball.
It is a simple case of supply and demand. Those of you who are lucky enough to travel the world know that wherever you go there is passion for the Premier League above any other, countless millions know the name of Aaron Ramsey.. He may not be in the rank of Messi/Ronaldo or Calum Chambers but he is definitely in the top 100.
He earns the Big Bucks because someone is willing to pay. It seems as though there were a plethora of clubs willing to pay €400k a week, including Man Utd and the Chavs.
Footballers are not overpaid, lawyers are 😀
The Arsenal Backroom Boys effed up the negotiations? How can anyone know outside of the meeting room what was offered and refused?
Some time ago LB wrote a post on this very subject and he is a man who knows about contracts. Mr. Ramsey employs an agent to get him the best deal possible. It would be foolish to imagine that his agent didn’t tout Aaron around the big clubs in Europe at least 18 months ago. He would have known the benefit to his client of running down his contract. It is called Player Power. and Arsenal got shafted. They aren’t the first and will not be the last.
It is also the job of his agent and press office to present Mr. Ramsey in the best possible light – they have done a superb job. Arsenal are left looking foolish. Very clever.
Aaron is one of my favourite players (despite his Welshdom). In his 11 years he has been superb for Arsenal and we will miss his genius.
I wish him the very best of good fortune on his new adventure.
I am deeply envious.
written by Big Raddy
Some comments from yesterday/this morning
Fred 1266 says
Am I the only one tearing up after that message
And so Rambo goes…what a management fiasco…the guy wants to stay, we make an offer that he agrees to it and we withdraw it…and let him go for free when teams were ready to give us 40 Mln…just like Sanchez…100 Mln lost just like that…Anyways…
If we have 50 Mln + sales to buy players. We need to buy 3 priority starters:
1 CB – Akanji will do. 30 Mln
1 DM – Gueye, Allan or Ndombele would do. 35 to 50 Mln
1 FW/W – Willian or Perisic would be the cheapest option. 30 Mln
Leno – Bello, Holding, Akanji, Kola – LT, Gueye, Guendouzi – Laca, Perisic – Auba
? – Lichten, Sok, Kos, Monreal – AMN, Xhaka – RN, Miky, Iwobi – Nketiah
I liked my other team better 😦
Why would anyone think the worst of the Club when all the power lies with the players these days?
I find it impossible to believe that a offer was made which he was happy to sign, then all of a sudden it was snatched away just as his pen was poised above it.
Leave it out.
The negotiations were going on for 18 months and he hadn’t signed.
Why the fuck would he sign for 180k a week when he can get 400k on a Bosman?
At 28, he’d be mad not to wait and get a last big contract on a free.
That story about him willing to stay and sign what was on the table is the best bit of agent spin anyone’s come up with for years. He can get the best deal for himself and still look like the slighted party. Job done.
Also…last season when negotiations are ongoing, Ramsey’s team are going to be making the right noises about staying if a compromise wage can be negotiated.
They’re not going to come out and say he has no intention of signing because he wants to leave on a free at the end of his contract and, in effect, pocket the transfer fee Arsenal would have received. If they had hinted that that was their plan, the Club would have had to sell last summer and he would have ended up with wages more akin to what he was already being offered.
Haha, as if I’ve got any idea about how it’s all gone down.
I’m guessing the numbers been chucked around conveniently avoid tax to suit personal agendas
ie 180k per week is probably net
400k per week probably gross (don’t know Italian tax brackets, but maybe in the 220k ‘ish area)
Ah, sorry, I tend to glaze over when money, tax rates etc are spoken about.
Are you saying Mesut is on 200k a week?
no, no, no, Mesut is on five million per week 🙂
Shit gotta go.
Cant do anymore at the moment
One of my heroes died today.
Gordon Banks. When I was a kid the goalie always chose to be Banks.
A Gent and there can be no better epitaph
I think people are baffled by Ramsey’s contract handling by the club. The club negotiated with Ramsey and we came to an agreement and put an offer forward, which we then withdrew…
Ramsey wanted to stay at Arsenal although he knew the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, Juve and PSG were monitoring the situation. So it is not so much that Ramsey goes, it is that he goes when:
1. his preferred option was to stay;
2. he had agreed on a deal with Arsenal but AFC withdrew it;
3. he is free of any contract.
For me, Emery got fudged…Ramsey was to be his base player at AFC, his Welsh Banega but then he probably got told:
– we have Ozil, Miky, Auba and Laca earning so so much;
– if you put Ramsey too, then you have to get rid of some players or you can’t add any players to the team in the winter…
– the guy said “OK”, let Aaron go…
BUT here is my big frustration, we could have given Ramsey his deal and explained to him that if a good offer comes in, we would release him to the club of his choice with a release clause of 35 Mln EUR. What was the harm in this? We could have maybe in the meantime shipped out Ozil or Miky…Anyways…
Poor contract handling of a real Gooner
RC. I agree with you last paragraph.
But, if agreement had been made between the two parties why didn’t Ramsey sign? It makes no sense at all.
Thanks Raddy, all good common sense. I’m sad to see Aaron go, he’s a thoroughly decent guy, I can only wish him well for the future.
None of us know what went on at the various meetings. Dick Laws has gone. IG has gone AW has gone. It appears that although lawyers are drastically overpaid 🙂 that the clubs are finding a way around the player power advantage when it comes to contracts in the way RC has described.
I hope our new legal team is employing similarly effective strategies to ensure our star players can no longer do a ‘Ramsey’. I see Barca made sure that they’d receive a fair price for Suarez before sending him out on loan by getting him to sign a new contract.
“The Arsenal Backroom Boys effed up the negotiations? How can anyone know?”
By letting a player run their contract down into the last year the odds swing dramatically towards the player. Arsenal have been rinsing and repeating this trick for the last 5 years: Walcott, Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere, Ramsey, Welbeck.
Yes we effed it right up! More specifically Terrible Ivan and the Dethroned Leader of the Holy Arsene Empire.
You can’t force a player to sign a contract extension.
So if a player won’t sign in his penultimate year, he must be flogged that summer.
This is the only conclusion.
When i say flogged – I mean publicly whipped with a cat-o-nine-tails.
Or just sold if that’s not possible.
Hi chas, of course you are correct. What can be done, is for something to be written into the first contract a player signs that safeguards the club’s investment. My limited knowledge of this extends to thinking that something along the lines an option for the club to extend the contract by a year with a sensible buy out clause. You don’t get out for nout, so no doubt the player in question would have to get a slightly better deal in the first place to agree to this ….. maybe some of the more enlightened on here could put me straight on this?
If a hypothetical Ramsey signs a 3 years contract and the club have an option to extend so “you don’t get out for nout”, what simply happens is that the hypothetical Ramsey waits until 4 years is up and then signs for Juve.
If Arsenal had an option to extend every year they would of course have signed the hypothetical Ramsey for perpetuity which would never fly.
The idea that the club could have done anything different and better is simply not true.
The idea that Ramsey agreed to stay at the club but the club withdrew the offer is nothing short of laughable.
RC might know his foreign players but his business nous leaves a lot to be desired.
I am always surprised that RA doesn’t wade in on these things; he has a better insight than most.
Hi LB, I think the strategy is aimed at younger players where they wouldn’t fancy spending a year in the wilderness … it also tests the resolve of the clubs interested in buying the player … but I take your point. To my knowledge, Barca and the totts have been successful in this.
Unless you have real inside knowledge of the negotiations, I don’t think you can say that “The idea that the club could have done anything different and better is simply not true.” … you may well be correct … but I’m happier just to say we simply don’t know.
The other thing about the ‘extension’ clause is that we all know that the top clubs are always in a hurry to sign a player they think they need and therefore are unlikely to want to wait a year. The end result is probably that the buying club will have to spend more = some reduced fee for the player whilst still meeting the higher wage demand.
Thank you Raddy for a thoughtful post about Aaron Ramsey
I know sweet FA about any negotiations that did or didn’t occur or any deals that may or may not have been offered – so any dialogue about lawyers, agents, money etc. ends up as pure speculation – so I will stick to what I know for sure.
Aaron Ramsey was (is) a classy player who played at his highest level for Arsenal day in and day out. He scored some incredible goals and was involved in many critical plays and scored important goals in two FA Cup Finals.
I will miss him and his presence around the club, an unfortunate injury inflicted on him by a northern bone crusher interrupted his career but he came back and continued to be an asset in his play and his attitude.
I wish him and his young family nothing but the very best of good fortune in their futures.
He was an Arsenal man through and through and we need more Aaron Ramsey’s around our club.
Would like to know about him in tomorrow post
Get writing, Fred!
A woman is having an affair during the day while her husband is at work.
Her 9 year old son comes home unexpectedly, sees them and hides in the bedroom closet to watch.
The woman’s husband also comes home. She puts her lover in the closet, not realizing that the little boy is in there already.
The little boy says, “It’s dark in here.”
The man says, “Yes, it is.”
Boy ~ “I have a baseball.”
Man ~ “That’s nice.”
Boy ~ “Want to buy it?”
Man ~ “No, thanks.”
Boy ~ “My dad’s outside.”
Man ~ “OK, how much?”
Boy ~ “$250?
In the next few weeks, it happens again that the boy and the lover are in the closet together.
Boy ~ “Its dark in here.”
Man ~ “Yes, it is.”
Boy ~ “I have a baseball glove.”
The lover remembering the last time, asks the boy, “How much?”
Boy ~ “$750?
Man ~ “Fine.”
A few days later, the father says to the boy, “Grab your glove, let’s go outside and have a game of catch.”
The boy says, “I can’t, I sold my baseball and my glove.”
The father asks, “How much did you sell them for?”
Boy ~ “$1,000?
The father says, “That’s terrible to overcharge your friends like that… that is way more than those two things cost.”
“I’m going to take you to church and make you confess.”
They go to the church and the father makes the little boy sit in the confession booth and he closes the door.
The boy says, “It’s dark in here.”
The priest says, “Don’t start that crap again.”
Tottenham and Barcelona may, on the surface, seem like good examples of clubs who have locked their players into long contracts early on.
But on closer examination I think they are bad examples especially Tottenham. Spuds only have two players who any other club would be prepared to fight over: Deli and Kane — both know that at the moment they are well placed but do you really think that they are going to stay where they are for the rest of their careers?
If their stock continues to rise they will do exactly the same as Ramsey — and what could Tottenham have done differently — nothing — there is nothing that either Tottenham or Arsenal can do or could have done different or better. Well, Arsenal could have matched Juve’s 400k week I suppose, but seriously, if Arsenal had matched it do you really think Ramsey would have stayed?
Barcelona are different, there are players like Fabregas who are prepared to take a wage cut to go there.
Re your 1.31
(If I have understood it correctly) The player would just wait another year and get an even bigger contract as Ramsey did.
If you are talking about younger players and insisting on an extension then that is pretty much what we did with young Ramsey: sign him on a good long contract on his arrival and then extend it when it became clear that he had become valuable asset that the club needed to protect — but if the player continues to improve (as Ramsey did) this strategy can only go on so long and then the balance of power shifts as it did with Ramsey and there is nothing different or better the club could have done; this may not sit well with you but remember we are talking about a very successful modern day public limited company with some considerable track record in the world of sports contracts — Arsenal know their stuff and if there was something they could have done they would have tried it
PS. I thought the withdrawal of Ramsey’s contract was inspired. I have already written a headline post on why I thought so.
When I consider, in a little more depth, the idea that Ramsey’s agent has just secured his client a £400k a week contract I am staggered by the naivety of some bloggers who actually believed that Ramsey wanted to resign for Arsenal and the only reason he didn’t was because the club withdrew the offer.
I might start selling on the site an elixir that extends your life……
How much LB
You’re misunderstanding/misinterpreting me LB … I didn’t say totnum was a good example (i.e. necessarily one to follow) of a club who issue these types of contracts … merely that I know (yes know) they have.
I think you are being naïve if you don’t think clubs are exploring ways of trying to avoid the Ramsey situation.
LB. I’m in. Maybe we can start crowd funding.
here we go again……………
Rasp. Of course, AFC have tried to find a workable solution, they couldn’t because the player has the power.
The talent is irreplaceable, the suits are not and the player , agents and clubs now know this.
Why else would AFC pay Ozil what is now proving to be the going rate for a top player out of contract?
As to calling LB naive … it is both mistaken and insulting
Very unsure if this is a particularly good time for me to enter the Ramsey debate!!!!!
Three things interest me! ( Regarding how and why this saga occurred, I am totally in agreement with Chas that this is the classic example of “agent spin”. What did Ramsey have to lose?……..unless of course a big (ish) Club hadn’t come in with the money OR Aaron actually wanted to stay!)
Firstly, as a long term believer that the only position appropriate for Aaron in an AW team was the No10 slot, in competition with Mesut for much of the time, and therefore not one, in my eyes, he could win realistically. If with Aaron’s departure, and( perhaps) Dick’s determination to ignore the majority(?) of AAers and elbow Mesut out of his current squad, is this not good evidence of the first real part of an Emery Revolution that does not regard the ” former” No 10 position as fitting his 433 plans at all?
Secondly, I seem to be at significant odds with many as to the level of Ramsey’s ability now. I personally do not believe, despite the contract he is being given, that he will hold down a regular starting position in the first eleven for that Juventus team!! Obviously speculation, and the proof will be in the pudding. I wonder if he might be another Hleb…..with of course enough money to set him up for life and not to care a jot!!
Thirdly, I have a hypothetical question. Did Ramsey fulfill his potential at Arsenal? Would the 17 year old boy have been better off taking Alex Ferguson’s offer and joining Manure. Would he have been given a chance in the 2008-9 squad that still had Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick and Rooney in it? If he had remained there long term he would have certainly “won” more medals/trophies!
Hi, check out my analysis
It’s always a good idea for you to enter any debate – as long as you remember I’m always right – right?
We should all remember that the impact of the Bosman has been no more evident than in Sol Campbell’s move from Tottenham to Arsenal in 2001, he earned a reported £60,000-a-week, plus bonuses, and a signing-on fee worth around £2m a year.
Raddy, I had no intention of insulting LB, and would apologise if that’s the way he’s taken it. I’ve been described as ‘naïve’ on here several times (probably by LB himself) and never taken offence. He had used the word naïve in his previous comment.
Surely we’re not seeking to stifle debate? I appreciate there is some sniping going on, I am not responding to anything other than those who want to discuss something I or they have said. I am genuinely interested in learning what Arsenal can do to try to protect its assets so we can compete better in the transfer market. LB offers an interesting perspective.
No thanks, Cable!
What’s does LB and LBG Stand for
I despair Rasp
In your 12.44 comment you say regarding the club being able to protect their investment:
“Maybe some of the more enlightened on here could put me straight on this?”
I take the time to give a lengthy reply which you end up insulting me for doing so.
I try and engage in a mature, adult way with you, would you please, please read my comments a little more carefully before jumping to what are, more often than not, the wrong conclusions.
“I think you are being naïve if you don’t think clubs are exploring ways of trying to avoid the Ramsey situation.”
It is preposterous to suggest that anyone could ever think that clubs are not trying to find a solution — Ramsey is evidence that no club has been able to.
LB are my initials, they also happen to be the initials of one of my all time favourite Arsenal players, none other than Liam Brady.
You insult me again, you may have been called naive but not by me. I defy you to show me where this has happened, just because I use the word does not mean that I am accusing you of such a thing.
Stifle debate? Get away with you , you young scamp.
Why do you think I have written more than 700 posts on AA. Is it to stifle debate?
Don’t despair LB 🙂 I listen to your reasoning and take it seriously. I have already (several times) said I agree with your analysis of the Ramsey situation.
I followed your sentence “I am staggered by the naivety of some bloggers who actually believed that Ramsey wanted to resign for Arsenal and the only reason he didn’t was because the club withdrew the offer” … my use of the word was in response to that. I didn’t consider you were being insulting to anyone. We’ve met several times and had numerous lively debates on here … I don’t remember you being so easily insulted on any of those occasions … but if that’s the way you see it then I apologise …
My comments @ 1:16 & 1:31 were perfectly reasonable, but you chose to look at things differently … fair enough. I appreciate your Arsenal’ness but actually totnum have more than 2 players who would be coveted by other clubs …Aldervereld and Eriksen to name just two. There can hardly be a club in the EPL who doesn’t have players that others would be interested in.
Hi Raddy … well if you’re allowed to be mischievous so am I 🙂
I think we’ve read a lot more cutting insults than naïve on here … and as I said earlier, LB introduced the word to the debate. The really daft thing (for both of us) is that we’re not really disagreeing! 🙄
LB is a tough guy, he can fight his own battles. I don’t think I come out on top very often 🙂
Rasp excuse me for entering this dialogue – but just two days ago you upset LBG and today it’s LB (coincidence or trend) – I guess I’m next for having a contrary opinion.
Raddy, Chas and your good self deserve and earn all the respect I can muster as without you guys we would not have a blog to on which to comment or read the superb comments from bloggers like LB etal.
Cant say I’m too bothered about Ramsey leaving. £400k a week? Behave! A good player but never quite great. The fact he’s seen as one of our best players only highlights the drop in quality within our squad, espescially in midfield. We used to have warriors and winners in the middle but these days we just have hyped up foreign players who are a level down from the best. Apparently we can’t afford anything else!
I just hope that some of these lads can fulfil their potential, unlike Ramsey, Wilshere, Ox etc
Notice how I start this comment with your name, the reason for that is so there is no mistake as to who I am replying to.
Have a look at my 2.36 again, the only comment I make where the word naivety appears and tell me if your name is on it?
That comment was aimed at other people above who had made such claims.
Rasp, you have successfully chased Richie and Shard (two superb bloggers) off of this site with your paranoia are you going for a hat trick?
Nope LB, I’m not …. if any of those who currently run the site want to talk to me off this forum I will be happy to respond to their wishes. I really don’t think this should be for public consumption. I do find the word paranoia insulting.
I think you may have a short memory LB. Hopefully you will not find that insulting as it is not intended to be so. I have never played the ‘look what I’ve done for AA card’ and I don’t propose to start now.
Fred. Thank you. The Pigeon of Peace. 😀
Thanks GN5, apologies … I missed your comment earlier.
What word would you use to describe people who take offence to comments that have got nothing to do with them?
LB, you’ve completely lost me now … it is you who took offence to my use of the word naive in the context of ‘if you believe we are not looking for ways to avoid the Ramsey situation’ … which I presume you are not …. therefore I am not describing you as naive. To accuse someone of suffering from paranoia is on a completely different level. I’d like to call a halt to this now if that’s ok with you.
I think what might be best is if we do not respond to each other’s comments, it appears I do not understand yours and you certainly do not understand mine.
PSG beats Man Utd at Old Trafford – what a feeling 🙂
Winning the league there is still a good feeling amongst Arsenal supporters as well.
If anyone hadn’t already suspected that AA is an old gits retirement home, I reckon the last seeds of doubt have finally been removed 🙂 🙂
Unrelated, but, CBD oil..wow the health benefits are crazy.
Are these comments deliberately after the NEW POST call?
I’ve only just got some ‘mother’ vinegar.
Has that been dumped now?