What’s going on with the Arsenal fanbase? …. Infighting, banners and disharmony …… or just a few hotheads?

The following post is based on a comment placed on AA yesterday. We are aware that many read the site without wishing to join us in comments. Once in a while, a blogger will bite the bullet when a topic that concerns them compels them to put something in writing …. this is one such occasion ……
Gooner Guest says:

Hello fellas,

Long time reader never poster. Was pleased with the fight we showed to get back in the game yesterday (Sunday), and thought Jack’s performance was very encouraging.

The reason why I’m posting is because both my sons were at the ground on Sunday and reported back to me some horrible things. I haven’t really been to many away games apart from the occasional ones, since the 90s (went a fair bit in the 80s). For Sunday’s match, Arsenal stewards were sent up to confiscate banners which called for the manager to go. Now I’m undecided on the manager. Gun to my head, I probably still think he’s the man for now, but that’s just not on. Can the club prevent fans from having an opinion away from home (or even at home for that matter!).

More disturbingly there was lots of fighting, in the away end, at the game. My boys who are both in their 20s, (to use the terminology, one is ‘Wenger In’ the other ‘Wenger out’) said the main perps of the violence were those in favour of Arsene staying. The reason why I’ve posted for the first time is that I’m asking whether you think the fanbase can ever be united again until we get a new manager?

I’ve followed and read this blog (sneakily while at work) for years in fact and I appreciate all of the regulars on here are old school Gooners who’ve dedicated time money and infinite amounts of love to the Arsenal. You’re all wonderful fans, I feel proud to support the same club as the posters on here, but what my boys told me yesterday makes me hate what Arsenal is becoming.

If you want to see what I’m talking about, have a look at Arsenal Fan TV. I think most of the regular guests on there are clowns, Claude in particular, but disturbingly he’s being shouted at and threatened by other Arsenal fans, even in the video… He’s a 60+ man, who for all his sins is a committed gooner.

As I said I haven’t been to away games regularly for a long time, but part of the joy was the feeling of togetherness and sense of being one. What my boys told me, made me feel very very sad.

Feel free to respond to GG’s (not George Graham) post by leaving a comment yourself ……. Ed

Post from a comment by Gooner Guest

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122 Responses to What’s going on with the Arsenal fanbase? …. Infighting, banners and disharmony …… or just a few hotheads?

  1. Big Raddy says:

    This from Terry Mancini

    I will give you my opinion now Mr Guest

    Having a pop at a manager is nothing new, and you been an old time Gooner know that, so what makes this different?

    In my opinion it’s the tenure of Arsene Wenger itself. When people use to have a pop at Terry Neil or George Graham, no one really cared. There tenures were shorter, Terry never took us to the heights and George, let’s be honest, was a bit of a horrible bastard.

    Now let’s look at Arsene. 20 years in charge, plays pass and move football, oversaw our move whilst keeping us competitive, won five FA cups, three titles, managed the invincibles, and as most would admit, is a decent and honourable geezer

    Now, when people have an over the top pop at him, my natural reaction is to defend him. I never felt that about other managers, but this guy as I’ve explained in his record above is different.

    It don’t matter if you think his time is up, methods outdated, or he’s now just a shit manager. What matters is what 20 years of outstanding service to our club means to you?

    Now when I see some one hold up a banner against him or worse calling him a nasty name with expletives then I get upset and angry

    Arsene is a one off mate. Once he goes we will slag off the next guy, defend and attack him, and all hold different opinions, but the emotional investment won’t be there, so neither will the agro

  2. chas says:

    This was also from Gooner Guest yesterday evening…..

    Also think I saw a comment which said the fighting was no more than handbags, just didn’t have time to reply properly then. Don’t get me wrong, from what my boys said that’s all it was, and that’s all I’ve seen on the rare away day I still go for. I just find that upsetting in itself as the handbags are over Arsenal, and becoming more common. There are plenty of idiots who follow Arsenal and if they have a personal dispute that results in handbags, it’s not my business, I don’t care! It’s more Arsenal fans coming to blows (or over dramatic shoving!) over things like the manager/banners etc that I find depressing. You can dislike each other (I’m sure we all know arseholes who follow the Arsenal ), but you should be united in supporting the club, not fighting over Arsenal.

    What I was interested in asking you here, as I always enjoy reading the regular contributors thoughts, is can we ever reunite the fan base around Wenger? Is he worth keeping if that’s not possible. Arsenal isn’t about winning for me, they’re my team. I am (or was, moved south of the river) a Holloway boy. So while I actually back the manager and think he’s still right for the job, I’m not sure I want him to stay if he divides the fan base so much, because football’s about more than winning for me, it’s about being united in support of your team. Even my sons were having a go at each other last time they were home for dinner!

    I’ve heard lots of Wenger in Wenger out shouting matches in pubs around the ground based on football, but lately I’ve come to think that off the pitch is an important consideration too. Don’t think I’ll post here again, but this is something I’ve really been considering lately, and wanted to hear others opinions. Maybe it’s an idiotic point of view, but I look forward to your thoughts

  3. Big Raddy says:

    Mr Guest.

    I doubt that common ground can be found.

    I also doubt that any new manager will be able to bring the fans together in the long-term. Whenever he and the team fails there will be same schism and a desire for a change.

    Even the Dortmund fans turned against Klopp when BD dropped down the table and if ever there is a man who can unify a club Klopp is that man.

    Fans have too much investment in their teams and sadly rational discussion is not a possibility for some of those fans.

  4. D-Money says:

    The question was simple: Can the fans be reunited under/around Wenger?

    Quite simply: NO.

    There is literally nothing AW can do to get some fans back on board, he could win 10 in a row and then lose in the same old way to Chelsea Away and there’ll be calls for him to get sacked because it wont juts be about that one loss, it will be about the countless times he has been tactically out-thought in the exact same manner.

    Old frustrations will rear their heads each time Wenger or Arsenal under Wenger fail. A new coach could make the same mistake(s), but it will “feel new” and thus wont bring up memories of similar losses.

    Arsenal fans I believe aren’t really angry at Wenger/The Club, people are just bored of the same old nonsense.

    I tend to agree with Mr. Guest: If Wenger can’t unite fan base, he should go. And AW himself has already said that the atmosphere at home games means the team finds it better to play away. That is not sustainable for any club.

    But I’ll go further and say that I believe Wenger can NEVER again unite the fan base (old frustrations are always just under the surface waiting to be triggered by familiar failings) and for that reason I would want him gone.

    That said, I’ve also accepted he isn’t leaving and have made peace with that and will support the team and no longer entertain any talk of the manager leaving until he one day decides to leave himself, as that is how he will have to leave, since our Board doesn’t have the balls and/or will to sack him.

  5. JM says:

    46th birthday to Dennis Bergkamp

  6. JM says:

    Correction, should be 47th birthday.

  7. chas says:

    Thanks for raising such a thorny issue, Gooner Guest.

    One of my first comments to Ant on Sunday was that I was looking forward to not sitting alongside an Arsenal supporter I didn’t know.

    It’s a complete lottery when you go away whether you’ll have a supporter next to you there for a bit of singing and hopefully enjoying a good team performance or someone frothing at the mouth with an entirely different agenda.

    I’ve been dreading someone holding up a banner alongside us. How am I meant to react? I certainly don’t want to be shown on any photos or on TV alongside something I don’t approve of.

    I think Terry’s correct when he points to the length of Wenger’s tenure. The Wenger out sentiment has been festering for 6,7, 8 years now. That is far too long for any liklelihood of a resolution.

    What I can’t get my head round is that some fans seem to think that their opinions about the club are more important than the team itself. Imagine going to a game and for the whole 90 minutes be planning to hold up a banner regardless of the result. I can’t, for the life of me, understand that thinking.
    Holding up A4 bits of paper during a home game where 3 points were crucial. To me it’s beyond belief.

    Football is meant to be a fun, leisure pursuit. A damn expensive one but still fun, else there’s no point. Once it stops being fun, I’ll definitely stop going.

  8. I think the problem is the stagnation of the club. The feeling of hopelessness is so strong that people just want a change. ANY CHANGE. It does not matter what shape or form it comes, just as long as we can feel there is a sense of direction, drive and purpose.

    Wenger has been a good steward of the club’s operation for a long time, but when your time is up, its up; and his time has been up a long time ago. What riles people up is the feeling that nothing you can do seem to move him or the board for that matter, so they lash out at the next best thing; their fellow fans.

    I was also on the ‘in Wenger we trust’ bandwagon until this season when he took the most ridiculous gamble of not investing in an outfield player when every Tom, Dick and Harry could see we just needed an efficient striker and goals from midfield. When you keep settling for 4th every season, no wonder people are jaded. When he leaves, the fanbase will unite again for one cause. Until then…

  9. Herb's Army says:

    It’s simple to understand, but maybe impossible to resolve.
    Arsene Wenger has shown remarkable loyalty, and has been incredibly consistent with top four finishes.
    The problem is that the consistency has become boring and our seasons always end the same way.
    A lot of the anti-Wenger mechanism is driven by the craving for excitement. Arsenal just don’t excite their fan-base anymore.
    They’re consistent without ever exceeding expectations.

  10. Rasp says:

    Thanks GG, I share your concern over the atmosphere that seems to be engulfing the Arsenal fanbase.

    By definition, support for the Arsenal should be something that unites us, not divides us.

    It should be Arsenal versus everyone else. I guess the reasons for the discontent are historical and can all be traced back to the building of the Emirates.

    We now know that the ‘years of austerity’ were handled brilliantly by AW. Had it not been for the crash in the housing market, we would have come out of it much sooner.

    I think the problem is that now we are on top of the debt, the promised land of riches has returned and there is an expectation amongst many supporters that we should be up there competing for the PL title and getting further than the knock out stages of the CL.

    Despite 2 big name signings, there is still a feeling that AW is reluctant to spend ‘a bit more than he would like’ to reinforce the squad, but moreover, there is an air of staleness about our play that we don’t seem to be able to shake.

    It’s just a game of football. Everyone has a right to express an opinion as long as they show respect.

    Personally, I don’t like banners. We should never boo our own team. If you don’t go to games to support the Arsenal – then don’t go.

    I hope that supporters stay behind to applaud the players on their lap of appreciation after the game on Sunday.

  11. Begeegs says:

    I think that the main reason is the feeling of hopelessness that nothing will change. For a club with our resources, many feel that we are not doing all that we can to challenge for big trophies and Wengers little jig at the final whistle on Sunday confirms that. He is no longer an ambitious manager and his criteria for winning and the fans criteria will be at an impasse now. This is why many feel that he should go (along with many other reasons).

    The divide will only go once Wenger leaves. It is really that simple. Whether you think that a man can change his parsimonious ways and do everything that he can to challenge for trophies or if you think that you’d rather that he walked and not spent another penny, it will be even more poisonous next year especially if Ozil or Sanchez leave this summer.

  12. Oneofthehivis says:

    I work as a steward at the Emirates & was quite surprised by the comment that Stewards were taking those cards away. We were specifically told in the pre match briefing that they were NOT be taken from fans, so if they were taken, then it was a mistake that the steward made..
    The only times ANY banner should be taken from a supporter is if it contains foul or abusive language, or It contains political statements.

    When the first demonstration took place, it was shouted down by pro Arsene Wenger supporters, which led in a few cases to heated exchanges. In the area that I was working, this was dealt with by having a quiet word. No one was ejected or arrested.There were a few instances in the clock end (which wasn’t all away fans by any stretch), which were by all accounts of a similar nature & would have been dealt with in the same way unless some sort of complaint had been made, or offence committed.

    Similarly with the second protest, but that was a lot less vociferous than the first & petered out very quickly.

    At the end of the game, there were some still protesting along with a number of banners supporting AW in one way or the other.

    The last few games have seen home fans go head to head with each other, because everyone has their own view to which they are entitled. The last game of the season is one I am not looking forward to for a number of reasons, but all I ask is for the last time this season is for EVERYONE to GET BEHIND YOUR TEAM FROM THE START TO THE FINISH & LETS FINISH ABOVE THE SPUDS

  13. chas says:

    Oneofthehivis
    I think the steward bit was for the City away game.
    Can you confirm if any Arsenal stewards went up to the Etihad?

  14. TotalArsenal says:

    Maybe the arrival of birthday boy DB10 would reunite the fans and make them supporters again. That would be a good move by Arsene. When at the ground watching your team play you support it through thick and thin: simple as that. Anybody who does not is not a supporter and the sooner they realise the better.

  15. mickydidit89 says:

    Thanks very much Gooner Guest

    Good posts bring out good comments. You have done that.

    We live in a fat, bloated, disposable, greed ridden society, and football mirrors society.

    I watched, staggered, how after the City game, the home team and manager appeared for their end of season goodbye to a near empty stadium. A few years ago, City fans would have all stayed even if the side had been relegated.

    We, The Arsenal, are not alone with the spoilt brat culture, and in fact, it is not exclusive to the wealthy clubs. The same rude and abusive demands for success (?!) are echoed up and down the country right down to the lowest leagues.

    It is sad.

  16. mickydidit89 says:

    Anyone seen Transplant today?

    Just got this on a news feed: “A Londoner has staged a one-man “protest” in front of the Chinese embassy in London against China’s erotic banana-eating ban”

  17. Domhuaille MacMathghamhna says:

    Too many managerial experts on here saying Wenger’s time is up, etc. etc. Wenger’s time will be up when he and/or the club decide and not a millisecond before. Everybody has an opinion but not many can defend their opinion with rational and factual arguments….it becomes an exercise in irrational, emotional,knee-jerk and over-simplistic entitled arrogance with a few people.
    Frankly, our sole responsibility as true supporters is to cheer on our gunners regardless of what our opponents, the media hacks or a tiny group of malcontents scream at us. If we can’t do that then we aren’t Gooners but simply narcissists.

  18. Big Raddy says:

    Micky 😀

    I agree entirely about other teams. The problem is not purely at AFC.

  19. RA says:

    A very good comment/Post, GoonerG, and raises an issue that is not resolvable in truth.

    The problem is human beings. 🙂 Away from football and all around the world there is little harmony on any subject you can name, so differences of opinion in football is hardly a surprise.

    I have no idea what the comparative numbers are between the Outs and the DontGoers, but opinions are just that, and if one group numbers just 10% of the total, they still will not accept that their views are going to be over-ruled by the majority, whichever way they ‘vote’

    Neither am I convinced that the ugly, vitriolic abuse of AW is just down to ‘spoiled brats’, which implies a youthful element – I have seen some positively ancient 50+ year olds demanding Wenger should go, so the views expressed, either way, are across the board.

    In most countries there are elections to vote in or out the next bunch of lying politicians, to stop us all becoming too frustrated with the current government, whichever party that might be at any given time, and leading to fractious disorder, so it does fulfil the function of allowing people to let off steam.

    With football managers that also happens with many of the club owners sacking even well known successful managers after a short ‘reign’, whereas Mr Wenger has been around for so long many supporters, perhaps like GG’s sons have never known anyone else in charge at Arsenal.

    So ‘time for change’ is something that we are all familiar with, and Arsene has done nothing so serious that he deserves to be sacked – but to many restless fans he has just been around too long, and has become ‘boring’.

    There is really no way back from public opinion based on ‘feelings’ rather than on fact – and AW should recognise that and go – perhaps at the end of his current contract.

    Either way, it is a sad end to a great manager, whether he hangs on to the bitter end, or he gives in to the swelling anger of the crowd and goes soon. 😦

  20. RA says:

    Can’t have been Terry, Rasper, he is always too busy erotically eating bananas in protest at everyone wanting to ban him! 😀

  21. Big Raddy says:

    “.it becomes an exercise in irrational, emotional,knee-jerk and over-simplistic entitled arrogance with a few people.”

    😀 😀

  22. GunnerN5 says:

    GG,

    Fans have, and always will have differing opinions on the way that their club is run and managed. Fans of all ilks are entitled to express their opinions and AA is a site that allows (nicely worded) diverse viewpoints that create dialogue – but even on here the dialogue has become more intense in recent years.

    My allegiance to Arsenal goes from top to bottom –

    1. Club (Ownership – BOD etc:)
    2. Manager
    3. Players
    4. Club staff

    I believe the major difference is that today the fans get far more “information” about all aspects of their club that creates a more volatile atmosphere.The media coverage is more intense than any time in my life, however along with the intensity comes a huge amount of misinformation that adds fuel to the fires of the malcontents.

    Statistically the past 20 years under AW have been the best in our history but the PL title has eluded us since 2003/4 and the closest we have got to the winning the CL was losing a very close game to Barcelona in the 2006 final.

    Those two issues seem to be the main cause of the discontent and it’s the varied reasons for these failures that creates the gulf between the supporters.

    Given the amount of years that I have fully supported and witnessed, many different Arsenal’s, I have nothing but praise for AW’s achievements and the manner in which he maintains his self control in dealing with the anti group’s.

    I will refrain (for now) from regurgitating the events of 2015/16 and Arsene’ s career at Arsenal – but suffice to say that I do not look forward to the day he decides to retire.

  23. RA says:

    Neatly and wisely put, GN5, and hello. 🙂

    Do you think that the fanbase will be united if AW does not go?

    Does it even matter to anyone except some of those who like to battle it out on blogs and twitter where ‘facts’ and ‘evidence’ are whatever some pillock says they are?

  24. Big Raddy says:

    The only way I think the fans will unite under AW is if we win the PL or CL next season.

    Even then I am not so sure.

  25. GunnerN5 says:

    Hi RA, nice to chat with you again.

    Obviously I’m firmly entrenched in AW’s corner and nothing will change that fact. But that does not mean that I’m immune to seeing flaws in his makeup – it’s simply that I see them as flaws and not as major failings.

    The blogs have become battle grounds for the discontented to spit their venom and no amount of logical reasoning will stop them from repeating verbatim the latest “Red Top fact”.

    My belief is that the differing opinions are so fractured that only a PL or CL title will start the healing. In the meantime It’s got to the point where I no longer read the comments of certain posters as they were spoiling my enjoyment of both my club and the game.

  26. GunnerN5 says:

    Ditto Raddy………………

  27. JM says:

    Arsenal FC. has undergone many changes since the beginning of the Premier League years and currently Arsene Wenger is the remaining prominent and visible bastion of Arsenal FC.
    ( along with his coaching deputy, Boro Primorac )

    (1) The stadium has moved from Highbury to The Emirates (with a bigger capacity).

    (2) The ownership and the supervisory board of directors has changed and re-shuffled.
    ( Left: Peter-Hill Wood, Richard Carr, David Dein, Danny Fiszman, Nina Bracewell-Smith etc )
    ( Came in: Stan Kroenke, Ivan Gazidis, Josh Kroenke etc) and ( Alisher Usmanov – 2nd majority shareholder )
    ( New role: Sir Chips Keswick as chairman )

    (3) The coaching and backroom staff has revamped.
    ( Left: Pat Rice, Bob Wilson, Gary Lewin, Damien Comolli, George Armstrong, Liam Brady, Terry Burton etc )
    ( Promoted or Came in: Steve Bould, Neil Banfield, Gerry Peyton, Colin Lewin, Shad Forsythe, Andries Jonker etc )

    (4) The supporter and fanbase has expanded (local and overseas). More media coverage (traditional and new social media). More diverse voices are heard on opinions regarding their club, Arsenal FC.

    (5) Star players (Pires, Ljurgberg, Overmars, Kanu S.Campbell, Gilberto Silva etc) , Arsenal captains (Adams, Vieira, Henry, Gallas, Fabregas, van Persie, Vermaelen), long-term players (more than 10 yrs playing at club’s senior level – Parlour, Keown, Dixon, Winterburn) etc. have come and gone (or are going: Rosicky, Arteta) under Arsene Wenger’s management in the PL.

    And Arsene Wenger has remained as the manager after the above (1) to (5). Holding the same post for 19 and coming to 20 years. This is a long period, to compare with employment in the working world ( e.g. operations manager in an industry; minister in parliament, chief operating officer of a private company etc. )

    It does not help that senior management has painted a healthy picture of Arsenal FC’s “growth” and “improvement” in off-field matters (not completely accurate as the club’s commercial revenue can still improve and lacks behind many equally big clubs in Europe) and raised expectations of better things to come for the club;
    while on-field, the team has been chasing to keep up with equal expectations.

    Man United under Sir Alex Ferguson has reached its pinnacle of perfection before his retirement ( 2 doubles, a treble, a record 20th league title and overtaking Liverpool in that period, 2 champions league trophies, overall haul of 38 trophies etc, recruitment of C.Ronaldo who eventually became a multiple Ballon d’Or winner, Fergie’s Fledglings, Glazer ownership – increased its commercial operations to the imperial levels that now trawl in funds, Man United remains one of the biggest clubs in English football etc )

    Question(s) from some fans could be:
    Has Arsene Wenger plateaued?
    ( 2 doubles, oversaw Arsenal’s relocation to the Emirates Stadium, managed the Invincibles, 49 league games unbeaten run, won his sixth FA Cup which helped the club to its record 12th wins etc. )

    and

    Has Arsenal FC reached its pinnacle under Arsene Wenger’s stewardship, and should a change in manager refresh the club to reach a different new peak?

    Some combination of new peaks/pinnacles that Arsene could do to maybe prolong his career at the club beyond next season ( his supposedly last with Arsenal FC ):

    – comprehensively win the 16/17 PL against the many top managers who are trying to do the same ( Guardiola at Man City; Van Gaal/”new man” at Man United; Conte at Chelsea, Klopp’s full season at Liverpool; Ranieri’s attempt for a 2nd at Leicester; Pochettino at Tottenham; dark horses Bilic at West Ham, Koeman at Southampton )

    – finally win the club’s and his first Champions League title in 16/17 season, at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, Wales ( considered a good hunting ground for the club, with 3 FA Cup wins. Also a sort of home ground in British soil ).

    – gradually improve on the players’ abilities mentally and tactically ( current ) and shrewd recruitment of potential and exciting new players that will immediately fit into prominent roles/playing positions at the club ( e.g. PL player of the season 16/17 potentials, no more square pegs on round holes etc. ). Which could lead to a new era of “The Invincibles Mark II”.

    – assisting with the management in the expansion of The Emirates ( 60,260 ) to a capacity of at least 72,000 ( closer to Old Trafford’s ), where 50% ( 5,870 ) of the would-be new seats (11,740 ) might be for sold/balloted? at a more affordable price to loyal supporters ( using some sort of means testing? in selection process )

    @Big Raddy,
    Do you (and/or other admin) still keep hold of my previous post, written sometime on 14th – 15th April 2016 ( that you had mentioned earlier ) to upload after the club’s season ends?

    An alternative way for Arsene Wenger ( and the club ) is not to move out but to move up, if he still loves Arsenal FC, and wish to serve at a greater capacity at the club. That in being a bastion at an upper level.

  28. chas says:

    I wouldn’t normally put a link up for a Sun article as they tell lies.
    However it does seem to clarify the point that a handful of Arsenal stewards were at the Etihad, just as they are for all away games.

    It looks as though any banner confiscating was done by Manchester police/stewards through fear of the trouble they may cause.

    Of course this hasn’t stopped the delightful Sun quoting the twitter angry mob talking about the Club being like N. Korea etc even though they’d already suggested Arsenal stewards weren’t involved.

    The world is a shabby shabby place.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/7137436/Fuming-Arsenal-fans-have-flags-and-banners-removed-inside-Manchhester-Citys-Etihad-Stadium-because-they-are-anti-Arsene-Wenger.html

  29. JM says:

    Crazy post season and pre-contract player recruitments at Bayern:

    18-year-old midfield starlet and Portuguese international, Renato Sanches, will join from Benfica. The initial fee is €35m which could rise to €80m, with an addition €45m depending on success-related bonuses.

    Furthermore, Mats Hummels will join Bayern from Dortmund in a 5-year contract till 2021. (confirmed)

  30. wally says:

    The only way i see wenger uniting the fan base is to win the premiership. The FA cup might hold them at bay for another year but that’s all. He’s got to win the Premiership.
    Personally i’m not convinced he can. He’s added three world class players in the last three years and the results are the same. And in fact lower teams are going by us. I no longer see how he makes us better.
    Yes, he’s been a wonderful servant of the club and richly deserving of any and all praise.
    And it’s important to understand when your time is up. Better to go out on top, with all the good memories, than keep hanging on in the hope that some miracle will happen.
    If he stays on next year and falls out of the top four (and that’s a distinct possibility) that would be a rather ignominious note on which to leave wouldn’t it.

  31. Big Raddy says:

    Wally. If AFC finish 2nd/3rd in a season when :-

    1. Leicester are likely to win with a record amount of points and only 3 losses – two of which are against AFC.

    2. We are the top Big Club

    3. We have taken the most points in the games between the Top 4 clubs

    4. We did not lose to THFC

    would this be considered a success or is success only winning the PL?

  32. Big Raddy says:

    JM. I am going on holiday this afternoon and not returning until after the season ends (sounds ages but is just 6 days).

    I will look for the post on my return but will probably need reminding. Or ask one of the others.

  33. Big Raddy says:

    Chaps who Can. I have written the PM, can you publish it in Sunday, please

  34. wally says:

    BR,
    Leicester have gone by us haven’t they. We did indeed beat them twice. So what.
    We are the top big club? So what. That they failed doesn’t mean we were successful
    We’ve taken the most points in our own little tourney? So what. We probably dropped the most points from games in which we led.
    We did not lose to spurs? Again my reaction is so what. That’s not a meaningful benchmark for me. Stuff like that is for teams that have no hope of winning the premiership. Newcastle beats Bolton, Everton beat ‘pool is a little championship for teams that aren’t really competing for the top isn’t it. It keeps those fans hoping for something better.
    Competition at the professional level is about winning, not showing up, winning. That’s how great teams measure themselves, by wins. Anything else is a form of retrospective absolution.

    If i saw we were getting better, that we were improving then i could live (figuratively) with the results. But i don’t see us improving. I don’t see us getting better. I see the same thing i’ve seen for the last 5 years, inspite of adding world-class players.

    I think we should be a great team. There is no reason why we can’t be a great team. I think we should aspire to more.

  35. RA says:

    Chas,

    As you are likely to be in charge of AA as the Viking is off tomorrow, I am prepared to write a swift Post to help, if you like.

    Let me know between now and 8 a.m. tomorrow, so that I can sharpen my quill and get going, should the response be in the affirmative. 🙂

  36. chas says:

    RA
    I’m not in charge of anything (not even myself 🙂 ).
    A post is always welcome and especially one from you, please.
    I shall await with bated breath.

  37. chas says:

    I have almost forgot the taste of fears;
    The time has been, my senses would have cool’d
    To hear a night-shriek; and my fell of hair
    Would at a dismal treatise rouse and stir
    As life were in’t: I have supp’d full with horrors;
    Direness, familiar to my slaughterous thoughts
    Cannot once start me.

    ………

    Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
    To the last syllable of recorded time,
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
    The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
    Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more. It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

  38. Rasp says:

    Excellent well measured responses today. It’s a shame that Gooner Guest hasn’t been able to comment. I hope he has had a chance to read the comments and approve the interesting debate his post has created.

  39. chas says:

    I hasten to add, that the above isn’t advertising for your potential post, RA. 🙂

    I’ve just had the last few lines going through my head all day. 🙂

  40. chas says:

    Hear hear, Rasp.

  41. RA says:

    Chas,

    You delight me – new light thrown on an Arsenal fans secret pleasures!! 🙂

    Shakespeare yet? I was never that keen on Macbeth – a scary sort of play :-

    “Direness, familiar to my slaughterous thoughts Cannot once start me”

    Shiver me timbers!

    Anyway, I will write something tomorrow morning and leave it on yesterday’s Post before 8 a.m. – provided the wind is in the right direction. 😀

  42. Gooner Guest says:

    fellas,

    Just had a read, and greatly appreciate all the measured responses. What I like about this site, is that people have different opinions on the manager and the team, but it’s kept civil and friendly. Guess that comes with being quality old school Arsenal fans.

    My final thoughts: the people talking about boredom I think are bang on. All I really want is for the club to feel united again, so I’m in the odd position of loving Arsene and still believing in him, but wanting him to go, wonder if there’s anyone else like me ? Cheers

  43. Gooner Guest says:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/7140259/Bloodied-and-bruised-Arsenal-fan-says-violence-between-pro-and-anti-Arsene-Wenger-groups-has-forced-him-to-quit-the-club-with-fears-for-his-little-boy.html?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-SunArsenal-_-20160510-_-Football-_-463419116-_-Imageandlink

    On a final note, I’m not a massive fan of the Sun, but this is exactly what I’m talking about. The guy can hold his banner up as far as I’m concerned, but this makes me very sad. Anyhow, pleasure that I could be a contributor to this great blog!

  44. RA says:

    GG,

    This is my theory. There are 3 groups of fan views.

    1. There are those who want AW to go, and behave hatefully.

    2. There are those who want him stay.

    3. There are those who think AW should go – for ‘good’ reasons, and do not use vicious language – but will support him if he stays.

    I suspect you come into the 3rd category.

    P.S. I try to stir things up, and am never civil or friendly – so watch who you are accusing of being nice!! 😀

  45. Rasp says:

    Hi Gooner Guest, thanks for the post and your comments.

    The last paragraph of your @ 4:45, sums up my feelings perfectly. As you say, it’s a confused state. I feel guilty and disloyal, loving Arsene for all he’s given us, but thinking its probably time he made way for a new approach

  46. D-Money says:

    I think most fans, or I’d hope so anyway, fall into group 3 (if not 2) at the moment…or perhaps even a 4th more muddled group which “Loves Wenger And Wants Him To Do Well And Win it All, But Beginning To Slowly Believe That Wont Happen, But Still Wont Admit He Must Go Because That Would Mean The Abuser In Group One Is “Right”” – if that makes sense

  47. Rasp says:

    You’ve just added to my confusion D-Money 😀

  48. mickydidit89 says:

    RA

    As all here know, I’m in Group 3, however, putting aside the managerial position for a second, what I would also like to see is the transition beginning now.

    Thing is, Arsene has been manager forever, but has also accumulated more and more power by virtue of his job moving broader than simply managing the team ie he appears to control transfer budget as well as the negotiations as far as I can make out.

    Assuming he stays for another year, I’d like to see new faces brought in to take up some of the other responsibilities.

  49. mickydidit89 says:

    Ok, Arsenal’s ambitions aside, and thinking about tonight’s game, who would we prefer to get CL football. Utd or City ?

    Perhaps I could rephrase that. Who would we most enjoy see missing out? 🙂

  50. chas says:

    Proper fans!
    Imagine being that happy to have won League One. 🙂

  51. chas says:

    I’d prefer to see United miss out, but will take some pleasure if Pep’s managing a team playing in the Europey. 😆

    We’re not guaranteed CL yet either!

  52. mickydidit89 says:

    I did say putting aside our ambitions, but think I’d prefer to see ..ummm…urrr, don’t know. Both have their merits

  53. mickydidit89 says:

    I think if Wham win tonight, then we’re guaranteed cl

  54. chas says:

    How do you know wenger controls the transfer budget?

  55. chas says:

    …and the negotiations?

  56. chas says:

  57. chas says:

  58. RA says:

    Micky.

    Your assumptions are based on ‘folklore’ I think.

    PLC’s have to observe strict governance rules. Wenger is not a director of AFC Holdings the parent company, and funnily enough, he is not a director of Arsenal Football Club, so the governance of those companies would not allow him to ‘take over’ other roles – so he is the Arsenal coach – that’s it.

    Sorry – I know 99% of Gooners have come to believe it is different, but ……. 😀

  59. Janman says:

    I think fan bases are split with different opinions at virtually every club that exists! You will never have a fan base that is 100% in unity. I fully understand that some Arsenal fans have a reason to be disheartened but then again they should look at the big picture. No other Arsenal Manager has delivered the success that Mr. Wenger has. I mentioned once before, what determines successful? Again this is something that many fans will have different opinions on. Of course a few more EPL Championships would have been great but as I have also said before, no one has a given right to win it and it gets harder and harder every year and yet we have maintained a top four finish for 20 years. Of course some will say that is not good enough.
    As to the Sun newspaper article, obviously this trash media has a history of presenting stories in the way they want it represented. Some will say he had a right to hold up the banner but I believe it should have been done outside of the ground and not inside because other fans around the banner who do not support it should not be associated with it especially if photo’s are being taken. Therefore in my humble opinion they would have every right to be upset at it and equally justified to want it removed. If the Police/Stewards determined that displaying the banner was in fact causing crowd issues then in my opinion they have every right to take it down and likewise if the banner holder resents that and resists then he should be turfed out of the ground. At the end of the day it is the responsibility of the Police/Stewards to control/defuse situations within the ground. That is why if he felt so strong about his opinion he should have displayed the banner outside the ground.

  60. chas says:

    Here’s the chap in question if anyone’s interested.

    https://twitter.com/franksav63

  61. mickydidit89 says:

    Dear Lord
    You lot are being picky tonight

    I said he “appears” to…..based on the way he speaks. Many I’s and My’s

  62. chas says:

    So he isn’t, he just has to stop ‘appearing’ to. 🙂

  63. mickydidit89 says:

    I think he is. So there 🙂

    Ugly scenes at West Ham game

  64. chas says:

    Is Phil Jones playing?

  65. mickydidit89 says:

    Are you watching U-21’s?

  66. mickydidit89 says:

    Why the interest in Phil Jones
    ps don’t know

  67. Rasp says:

    Phil Jones is ugly 🙂

  68. TotalArsenal says:

    Great picture of Dennis, Chas! He still had to grow into that face.

  69. TotalArsenal says:

    I am in another category, Redders: I am not bothered whether Arsene or another manager leads the team next season as both options have pluses and minuses. I just look forward to seeing the team play and don’t really get what the fuss is all about.

  70. mickydidit89 says:

    Hi Rasp and Total

    If you’d like to pick holes in anything I may have, or will, say, then please join the queue

    I’m taking on all comers 🙂

  71. chas says:

    And failing miserably!

  72. mickydidit89 says:

    Oi, you’ve had a go. Back of the queue if you want another crack 🙂

  73. chas says:

    TA
    Here’s the other photo…… 🙂

  74. TotalArsenal says:

    The best cheese is between the holes, Micky. 😄

  75. chas says:

    Hammers happy.

  76. chas says:

    TA
    Loving that.

  77. TotalArsenal says:

    Wow, the guy third on the left from Dennis looks too cool for school!

  78. chas says:

    What a run from Willock!

  79. chas says:

    3-1 to The Arse

  80. mickydidit89 says:

    Total
    Brilliant saying 🙂

  81. Rasp says:

    What’s happened to Jenkinson, doesn’t he get a start for wham any more?

  82. chas says:

  83. Rasp says:

    This is not good for football. As someone said earlier, it’s not just Arsenal supporters who are feeling angry 😦 Micky got it right in his assessment of society

  84. mickydidit89 says:

    Rasp

    “Micky got it right ”

    You try telling that to Chas 🙂

  85. chas says:

    Even a blind squirrel……….

  86. mickydidit89 says:

    A blind squirrel now. Wrong. The air in the holes in the cheese 🙂

  87. Feel terrible for that I.T bloke. Poor geezer was minding his own business when magically a banner appears from his virtual reality, and now refuses to go anymore until his seven year old son, who at the time was eating coco pops at home is given police protection.

    This has forced the poor man to run to the Sun Newspaper to inform the world that it’s finally happened. Those who bore you to death at party’s with tales of I Mac and Windows 10, erotic compatibility are to be subjected to violence and forced to undergo lessons on how to talk to women without shitting themselves.

    In his quest for justice, our Sofyware hero has take to Twitter to argue his case and measure algorithmic responses to the £500 quid received from the Sun, off which he will purchase a Toggle with such vast memory, he will finally achieve Hardware.

  88. Rasp says:

    Martial just earned his transfer fee

  89. mickydidit89 says:

    It was only £30M Rasp 🙂

    Great game

    Transplant 🙂

  90. mickydidit89 says:

    That was worth watching
    Nite all

  91. TotalArsenal says:

    Technical perfection linked to a joy of beauty

  92. fatgingergooner says:

    Rasp,

    I think Jenks is back with us after an injury cut his season short. Anterior ligament I think.

    Great result for West Ham. I think United have messed up as a point would’ve meant City had to go to Swansea and win, which would’ve been tough. Now with their superior goal difference they only need a point. Looks like City for 4th.

  93. VP of Oz says:

    yes we are fickle, I mean yes AW is the most successful manager in our history but what has he done for us lately. Oh right, he won a couple more FA Cups and a couple of Community Shields but thats only 4 trophies in 3 years, surely not enough and so what that we are only 2 points behind a 2nd place finish, we always finish top 4, always the same same…
    …meanwhile over at Manure after losing to the Hammers –

    >Its no surprise anymore its the second season running same things same manager no change……

    >when I was in the LVG out brigade, I was pulling for Giggs, but realistically you are right not much that’s better out there.

    >If United do not respond to this situation early, we may find us in the same situation as Liverpool. Chelsea & Man City will spend big to achieve results, Tottenham have a young & dynamic team which means they will be strong for the foreable future, Klopp will make Liverpool competitive & Arsenal are not too far from having a great side.

    As for Hair Transplant, once again you are spot on. I was also worried about taking my kids to games but was afraid of the fiery clashes between the Ins and the Outs (reminds me of a Dr Seuss story), admittedly I cannot afford to send my kids to games seeing as we live in Australia, but thats beside the point.

    Good Morning all.

  94. mickydidit89 says:

    Sunderland Everton tonight

    Loving all these end of season games with stuff really worth bothering about.

  95. RA says:

    Morning Micky, 🙂

  96. mickydidit89 says:

    What the hell do you think you’re doing talking to me, I was about to settle in for a proper chat with myself 🙂

  97. chas says:

    Morning both.
    An Everton win would be nice to leave Newcastle needing to play out of their skins on Sunday. 🙂

  98. chas says:

    RA
    Are you concocting a magnum opus?

  99. mickydidit89 says:

    Like last night, it’s an evening where events do affect us, while we get another choice

    Who would you prefer to go down, Newcastle or Sunderland. Toon for me.

    Ok, dashing

  100. chas says:

    Allardyce and Defoe sway it against Sunderland for me.

  101. RA says:

    Just finishing it, Chas – umm, brain not working this a.m. so it looks rubbish – never mind. 😀

  102. Gööner In Exile says:

    Morning all, it is certainly a shame that there is a divide in the fan base, the remedy is unknown.

    This really surprised me from Red Action this is the lead up to protest:

  103. Gööner In Exile says:

    Then

  104. RA says:

    OK, Chas, give me a minute and I will put it on yesterday’s Post.

  105. chas says:

    Thanks, RA

  106. Gööner In Exile says:

    Immediately after the game where the protest failed:

    Bit aggressive maybe, and then once they’d realised that perhaps they have been blinded by the level of volume the vocal minority can create they actually tried to criticise the silent majority with a backhanded apology of sorts

    So as it appears that RedAction has now gone against the will of most supporters and the club may stop listening to us and giving us a platform perhaps we should apologise kind of so that we keep our little bit of power and financial contributions that the club make to things like our supportive banners or taking on our suggestions etc

    Maybe just maybe you’ve all become a bit too pally down there in Red Action, the most disappointing night I’ve had at Emirates was in their section where mainly the noise was conversations between regulars showing each other pics of the last night out on their mobiles while the game was going on!

  107. RA says:

    Okey Dokey,

    It’s all yours Chasser. 😀

  108. chas says:

    Thank you

  109. Rasp says:

    Morning all, well we wanted a hard man in midfield – you can’t have a better name than Granit for that job. Looks like the Xhaka deal is 90% going to happen 🙂

  110. chas says:

    Is that from somewhere other than the papers, Rasp?

  111. chas says:

    Right, the new post is going up in 5 minutes.

  112. Rasp says:

    No, it is a paper article chas, but it looks to me as though it has some basis.

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