I never thought I’d write a sentence like this, but here goes: “Well done Howard Webb – you refereed really well at the weekend.”
It’s probably not a sentiment Webb hears all that often, particularly from a supporter of a team whose game he has just reffed.
Despite being recognised by the international footballing authorities as one of the finest referees of his generation, Webb has always come in for stick from English fans.
From the suggestion that he started shaving his head to avoid tickling Sir Alex’s back passage on the way in, to an alleged bias in favour of clubs from his native North of England the former copper has faced plenty of abuse over the years.
So the fuss surrounding his failure to award a second penalty to the Diving Uruguayan on Sunday will be like orange sauce off a duck’s back to him.
And, in this case, so it should be.
Let’s start with the context.
Arsenal v Liverpool in the FA Cup was a very good game of football played with plenty of commitment.
Liverpool had the confidence of having thrashed us just a week earlier and of being one of the form teams in the Premier League; we, on the other hand, had the incentive of getting revenge, putting our season back on track and making more than a few media pundits Neknominate their words.
I thought Webb handled the match well, showing some early yellow cards to stop things getting too overheated but generally allowing the game to flow.
And so to the big decisions that have brought him so much criticism in the last 48 hours (the Daily Mirror’s headline was: “Howard Webb Escapes Demotion Over His FA Cup Stinker”):
First there was Suarez dive Number One: Podolski undoubtedly tapped the Uruguayan’s ankle but, as someone said in comments yesterday, anywhere else on the pitch Suarez would have stayed on his feet. You can also see from replays that the Scouser threw himself to the ground a split second after the contact – not in the instantaneous way that would have happened had his fall been genuine.
Even so, I have no quibble with the award of the penalty. Podolski caught Suarez’s ankle, however lightly, and Webb was right to point to the spot. However, I also feel that Webb knew that Suarez has bought the penalty to some extent by exaggerating his reaction to the contact.
Then we come to Suarez’s second penalty appeal when the Liverpool striker toe-ended the ball away from himself (and away from goal) and Oxlade-Chamberlain clattered into him from the side.
It was a clumsy effort by The Ox, and even though Suarez had lost control of the ball there is a strong argument it was a penalty. (I also think there is an argument for it being a “coming together” and not a foul at all, but I may be alone in that interpretation).
What stopped it being a penalty (in my opinion) was Suarez’s impression of a freshly caught marlin on the deck of a fishing boat.
It was such a fake, over-the-top and comical piece of physical theatre that it must have sowed a seed of doubt in Webb’s mind as to whether Oxo’s contact merited a penalty at all. In the split second the ref had to make his decision, the Uruguayan’s fakery probably swayed the issue. Look at it from the ref’s point of view: if a player is clearly play-acting for part of an incident, how can you be certain he wasn’t play-acting for all of it?
Ironically if Suarez had just gone down naturally he might well have got the decision.
There were a couple of other controversial moments. We could have had a penalty when Skrtel caught Santi Cazorla’s foot with a high and late challenge in the Liverpool box. As the saying goes, “anywhere else on the pitch it would have been a foul,” and that may be true. But it would have been a bit of a harsh penalty (the ball had already eluded Santi before he was clobbered and Skrtel was going for the ball).
Finally, there was the argument that Steven Gerrard should have received a second yellow for a tackle on Oxo. Well, maybe. To be honest it was the sort of foul that sometimes results in a booking and sometimes doesn’t. This time it was not a booking and also not a big deal. I feel Arsenal supporters have been stoking up the outrage on this one purely to counter the Scouse squeals of victimhood over the Suarez non-penalty.
Webb also had a nice moment when Sterling “put hands” on him while disputing a decision. It was a chance for the referee to engage in his own bit of over-acting, feigning outrage and having a stiff word with the player and his captain.
All in all, “Fergie’s Rent Boy” had a good day and played his part in an excellent game of football with a particularly excellent outcome.
But Howard, don’t get carried away: it was only one game and in the balance of things you still owe us at least another 10 dodgy decisions in our favour to make up for all those years of being the 12th man at Old Toilet.
RockyLives
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
nice one Rocky; I, however, think he is still an inadequate ref. who got plenty of decisions wrong while arguably, on the balance of play, they may have favored us a bit more than mugsmashers. Still don’t look forward to him reffing our matches in future. But hey! that’s just me 🙂
‘morning all, well done Rocky, I hope you’ve managed to get your tongue out of your cheek by now. 😀
There is a serious point to be made though, if Webb did not deem the Ox’s challenge to be a foul why didn’t he book Suarez for simulation?
Webb is among the most reliable refs but refs are human beings and make mistakes….
In my opinion, football should copy “American Football” and allow 3 video challenges per team in a match. These challenges should only concern the following:
– Goals disallowed (not the goal-line technology) for off-side reasons or others…
– Red cards
– Penalty claims
It takes less than a minute to review the footage and to make a call.
The 4th official can take care of that and you time this review and add it to your extra-time.
I think Webb was so amused by the Suarez play acting that he forgot that he was there to referee the game or maybe he was annoyed that Suarez forced his hand by catching the ball before the whistle in the first penulty incident, thereby forcing Webb to blow the whistle. He is a funny one that Suarez.
Having said that, i feel the scouse brigade is making it a tradition to win dubious penulties in the dying minutes by all means. Sturridge dived for the penulty at Fulham and nobody wanted to talk about. Even the replays were cut short and nobody wanted to discuss it.
RC78, Your suggestion begs several questions; When does play stop? Who stops the play? How does play restart? In Gridiron play stops every ten seconds or so anyway, this is not the case in soccer.
I find the whole affair sour, disgraceful and pathetic on the part of the media and especially Liverpool. There is no bigger sore loser than Liverpool. Not once did I hear a simple acknowledgement from any Liverpool fan that every aspect of their first goal in the league match was lucky. From the pathetic foul awarded to the goal that was scored from an offside position. 3 other occasions in that game the same linesman failed to put his flag up. Not one mention regarding the constant Liverpool fouls in the midfield. No, the ref and linesmen all had a fine game then. The media agreed. So fast forward one week and Arsenal play out of their skins and apart from 2 clear cut chances for Sturridge and a brilliant one footed save from Fabianski off a Suarez shot, Arsenal were comfortable winners. But the media once again fail to give Arsenal credit and instead focus on a ref who was never once called out for bad decisions made in United’s favor. All I read is the second penalty. Rodgers moans and moans about it how somehow Liverpool were robbed and deserved to win the game! Hang on a second, because I watched a Liverpool side who were only gonna score through penalties and the worlds greatest cheat was going out of his way to ensure they got them. Liverpool are classless sore losers and I hope every ref in the English game is reading every article and watching every interview. I also hope the FA and refs association is wise enough to show the world Howard’s stats v Liverpool. They are not as bad as fans would have you suddenly believe. 14 home games. 7 wins, 4 draws and 3 loses. Overall their big losses were away to teams like Arsenal, United and Chelsea. They are simply full of it, spinning the media to suit an agenda to win some kind of favor for their remaining games. It’s pathetic and it’s blatant and I hope every ref in England stands behind Webb and hits Liverpool where it hurts. They give nobody respect. Not once does Rodgers ever come out and compliment a team that beats Liverpool. He chooses rather to bleat and moan about the refs every single time.
Rocky rocks!!!! 😀 😀 😀 Brilliant and topical.
Some absolutely brilliant gems in here: “orange sauce off a duck’s back” and “freshly caught marlin on the deck of a fishing boat”, for starters. I have been rocking side to side in laughter continuously. ha ha ha 😀 😀 😀
The tide is turning, chums, slowly by surely!!! 😀 😀 😀
Here’s a sat from a stat-hater.
Liverpool have lost 14 out of the last 22 games and won just six when Howard Webb has officiated.
Stat, not sat
I like Liverpool a bit, not least the comedy show that Suarez provides. But have to agree on one thing: Brenda is a sore loser and Henry is a moron.
Stopping – Request from one of the team to the 4th ref within seconds of the ref’s decision.
Plus these three calls r usually subject of a rif raf on the pitch and a set piece so it d be quicker to settle the call with the video. Technically, this is how you would restart the play:
– Penalty claim: If penalty, then take the penalty. If no penalty, free kick for the defending team
– Red card: Free kick for the team that has been wronged
– Disallowed goals: If it is a goal, then the team that just conceded has to go back to the center of the pitch to kick off. If it is not a goal, then goal kick.
These are three instances where anyway the play is more or less stopped and discussions are usually held with the refs and his assistants. Let us just settle the matter with the video…
@Norfolk. Actually its 13 lost. 6 won and 3 drew. But here’s the kicker that Liverpool fans ignore. 7 of those 13 losses were to Arsenal, Chelsea and United with a couple others away to Spurs when they were flying under Redknapp and finished 4th and an away game to Everton. 4 of those losses happened in Liverpool’s worst ever season in the Prem. Liverpool fans lack a little thing called perspective. Liverpool’s record with Mike Dean away from Anfield. Last 10 games? won 2. Liverpool are crap away from home. Period. And here’s another piece of light reading. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-city-2-liverpool-1-brendan-rodgers-fumes-over-horror-refereeing-9026400.html
Rodgers having a go at Lee Mason. http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/26/liverpools-brendan-rodgers-blasts-referee-lee-mason/
I thought that from Webb’s angle it looked like Suarez ran into the Ox. When one sees it from another angle e.g. behind the goal then one can see that it’s a definite penalty.
What concerns me more though is the fact that Podolski and Ox made these stupid fouls in the first place. They’re not defenders so that should be very very careful when tackling in the box especially against players who are looking to go down at any opportunity.
RC78, “Stopping – Request from one of the team to the 4th ref within seconds of the ref’s decision.”
Is that the team (s) on the pitch? If so just the captain? Any member of the team (s)? The managers? The coaches? This looks like a recipe for anarchy.
The manager on the bench. He makes the call. Not anybody else. If you look at the mess on the pitch when there is a red card or a penalty, I think that the video will just manage to dillute that. If it works in American Football, Rugby and Tennis, I am sure it will work in Football as well 🙂
Morning all, thanks for a post guaranteed to get the juices flowing Rocky.
I know its in all football supporters’ DNA to feel hard done by, but the stats back up the theory that we continually suffer poor decisions from some refs and when playing certain teams.
I have always felt that Webb was OK but as soon as any ref gains some kind of celebrity status, the credibility of their decisions becomes suspect.
Danny, agreed. Poldi or The Ox should not get into the habit of tackling from behind. Leave that to the specialists. 😀 😀 But then again, remember Flamster. Oh dear!!!! 😛
Welcome Trethescreenwriter, some very good comments there. I agree we have been victim of some incredibly inept (dare I say almost corrupt??) refereeing performances.
The 4:4 against the toon was one that defied logic. At one point Szczesny was wrestled to the ground by a toon player and he got booked for it – unbelievable
Nice one, Rocky.
I particularly liked the reason for H’ard to shave his head. 🙂
I don’t understand how you can describe Suarez’s first dive so brilliantly and then go on to say that you have no quibble with the award of a pen.
I really think it’s now incumbent on the refs to make a value decision as to whether there was enough contact to bring someone down. (that’s if the player does actually go down). Simply because there is contact is not sufficient to award a penalty.
As you said, Suarez throws both feet off the floor a split second after the incident. This has to mean it isn’t a pen, surely?
I’m convinced the second one wasn’t given because Webb realised he’d made a rickett with the first.
Thanks Rasp. The difference is Wenger hardly ever mentions it or takes it to the extremes that Rodgers does. We are also a team that hardly ever takes a tumble. You’d think refs would be more inclined to be in our corner. It always amazes me how Arsenal find it harder to win legitimate penalties than teams like Liverpool who’s players are always in the media for diving and yet the very next game there they are winning freekicks and penalties all over again.
Excellent as ever Rocky
A slight difference but it only goes to back up what you were saying and that is that Webb didn’t give out cards early, he waited for as long as he could and that was well into the first half.
LB
Monreal was booked in the 7th minute.
Flanagan in the 15th.
Coutinho 20th
I’ve also lost faith in commentators. There’s this new trend when commentators talk about Arsenal during games. This is for those that go live to the stadium. I live in South Africa and haven’t been to a live game since the Arsenal, Spurs derby in 2013. Anyway. Arsenal players gets fouled. No contact is made with the ball, ref waves play on. Idiot commentator then says, “he made a genuine attempt to win the ball.” WTF! Isn’t 99.9% of every tackle attempted a genuine attempt to win the ball? If you miss and take the player then surely its a foul. Is it not a foul only when its an Arsenal player that’s been fouled? I believe there is a real media agenda against Arsenal or perhaps Wenger. Or maybe its because every commentator and journalist these days are x United and Liverpool players.
I think another aspect of refereeing has to be the latitude allowed to certain players. Stevie G gets away with murder. A ‘professional foul’ that involves bringing down a player long after the ball has gone in order to stop a potentially goal scoring attack should always result in a yellow card. Not because it could cause injury but because it is blatant cheating. Gerrard did it 3 times on Sunday. He got a yellow for one and after that Webb bottled it because no-one sends off Steven Gerrard.
In the same way as some players get tarred with the ‘he’s a diver’ brush, others are awarded the ‘you’re an untouchable institution’ medal.
oooooh, ooooooh, not only an excellent post, but some fantastic comments, really enjoyable start to the day-before-the-big-game.
Rocky – the last para had me in stiches “But Howard, don’t get carried away: it was only one game and in the balance of things you still owe us at least another 10 dodgy decisions in our favour to make up for all those years of being the 12th man at Old Toilet.” Let’s hope that Howard does not read this blog, he may not appreciate your sense of humour.
I have no opinion on the subject, other than they are humans are therefore make mistakes. I doubt very much that Webb was really on SAF’s payroll, but it is possible that he had too much respect/fear for the old devil.
Tren – excellent comments, cheers. I’d agree with you that most TV footy pundits are ex ManU or Pool players. However, I find the United guys much more palatable than their Scoucer colleagues. Take Gary Neville for example – hard to call him biased, don’t you think?
Hi again TTSW (can’t keep typing your name in full), I’ve lost count with the number of times an ex-professional posing as a pundit has come out with the classic ‘he got the ball’ line.
Maybe Ryan Shawcross got the ball when he smashed Ramsey’s leg. Getting the ball is irrelevant if the tackle is made in such a way that it could injure an opponent – it’s that simple!
On a totally different subject, I am very concerned on how the Giroud story might effect the team.
The timing of it couldn’t be any worse.
Danny
How do you know it won’t have the opposite effect and galvanise team spirit?
evonne. Agree there, although I prefer not to think of him in any kind of positive light. I’ll never forgive him for his treatment of Reyes in the infamous game 50 where Mike Riley finally showed his true footballing allegiance.
I am though having a really good feeling about tomorrow night. Bayern have had a free reign in the Bundesliga which has gone on to become the most one sided league since Rangers got booted out of the SPL. They have had very little resistance and I think they will come to the Emirates a little too relaxed.
At the end of the day, refs make mistakes like everyone does in their jobs. It is very difficult to make calls instantly and this is what they have to do so ppl should back off a bit and respect the refs. All teams get wronged in a season, some more than others but that is life. It is one factor you cannot control or mitigate – I wished that managers would just get on with it and focus more on their team’s performance…It is ok to complain a bit sometimes but if you listen to Mourinho, Moyes, Rodgers, Martinez, AVB, Sherwood, Benitez – you would think that their teams are victims of poor refs’ performance at every single negative result…I like Wenger, Ancelotti and Pelligrini’s approach better
@chas
Maybe it’s coz I always have a pessimistic outlook……
I was just thinking that if a bloke at my work pulled something like this on his wife and 6 month old baby, how some co-workers would react towards him plus the fact for 2 weeks he lied etc
Hi RC78,
I think the point is here that it was the media who made the whole game about the ‘missed penalty decision’. It was wall to wall in the papers and on the radio the following day. In contrast, the 4 or 5 really bad decisions in the defeat to Man City received virtually no coverage.
Although we didn’t deserve to win that game, if all the decisions had been called correctly the result would probably have been a draw.
So you could argue that a bad decision only becomes news when it means a team has been ‘robbed’ , but I felt we fully deserved to beat pool. We defended better than them and we took our chances.
Tran – true, we do well when we go to big games as underdogs. Howerver – NO, I am not going to get carried away thinking we have a chance. .
Try thinking that there are 2 Gary Nevills. One the bastardly ManU defender and the other lovely, witty and knowledgeable football commentator. And, the later is far better looking then the evil ex captain from Old Trafford 🙂
Danny
I think he made two mistakes……..
a) going with a slapper
b) getting caught
Trouble is a) often results in b) because the slapper is only seeing it as a career move.
Would you really ostracise someone at work without really knowing anything about their private life?
I only wish for a level playing field. I wish all pundits were brilliant ex footballers from the lower leagues. I wish the media had been as outraged over our 0-0 draw with Chelsea at the Emirates, because of the stone wall penalty Dean turned down when Willian blatantly took Walcott down or the straight red Mikel should have got for his horror tackle on Arteta. But no. Instead we got all the Wenger and Arsenal are cry babies articles quoting Mourinho.
I personally couldn’t care less what people do but others might and do take offence, therefore if there are players who dislike Giroud for whatever reason, this won’t help.
Also it doesn’t look good for the club – “it’s not the Arsenal way”. Plus he said it wasn’t true so the club got the lawyers involved and in the end it was etc
“not the Arsenal way”.
Haha, tell that to Arsene.
wow, just briefly in to say: what a fantastic day on AA!!!!!! 😀 😀 😀 fantastic spirit. Bring on Bayern!!!!!! They are very much in London, you know!!!! 😛
at least tomorrow it will not be a British ref!!!! 😀
On Rocky, you never come up short – superb, you wove yet another Webb.
On Giroud, to me it’s straightforward he got caught and must suffer the personal and club consequences. It happens all over the world everyday and it’s nobody’s business other than those involved – but try telling that to the Red Tops!
On refereeing, What goes around comes around, it’s an imperfect job and mistakes will be made both for and against any club on any day. Conspiracy theories are pure nonsense – but some decisions do make me scratch my head in disbelief.
Peaches – could you ask Tran to write a script for tomorrow? Since Tran is a script writer and our official Pre Match king is on holidays ….It would be good to have a new author, no?
I don’t really think that Giroud’s extra maritial business is reflecting badly on the Club. He is French after all, are they not supposed to have mistresses?
Good Post, oh Absentee Scribe, 🙂
The fact is that fans ‘love’ referees who simply make decisions they agree with, and cast aspersions on refs who make decision, rightly or wrongly, that may have a negative impact on their team.
All refereeing decisions have a huge subjective element and are affected by the angle of sight to the incident concerned, and inevitably there is a dash of incompetence occasionally thrown in for good measure.
Whereas, we fans are never incompetent in our decision making, are we, because we can interpret the rules, we have probably never read, in anyway we want, and of course we get lashings of ‘views’ of any given incident showing the scene up the pitch, down the pitch, across the pitch and enhanced with slow motion, overhead projections and in my ladies boudoir. And we still don’t agree with each other – let alone with the opposition fans.
There are those who are exponents of the Cheat’s Charter, such as Owen and Suarez, together with their fawning acolytes, who maintain that a touch – any touch – in the penalty area, from any opponent, is an entitlement to go down with as much moviestar theatrics as possible to ‘win’, ‘buy’ or ‘sucker’ a penalty.
Those who would no more dream of robbing a blind man’s collection box than they would seek to benefit by such underhand methods are currently placed at a severe disadvantage while the football authorities permit this betrayal of the Corinthian spirit which all sports and sportsmen should aspire to.
In short, Rock Feller, I agree with you. 🙂
Top comment, Redders. 😀 😀
Evonne,
Believe me – any red blooded male, at least the young ones, and probably the older ones too, if presented with a beautiful, willing young lady prepared to share her delights, would have a lot of difficulty saying no – especially after a drink or two, and pretty sure no one would know.
Any man saying otherwise is blowing a flute. 🙂
In such circumstances, the brain is easily convinced of the last point that no one important will get to know, conveniently/stupidly forgetting that the lady involved is looking for what she can get out of the deal, by selling him out, and/or losing her self respect all for a nice fat cheque.
I’m not saying it is right or wrong – who am I to judge – and not everyone will succumb for moral or trust reasons, because it is essentially between the guy concerned and his partner, and the only beef the club would have with Giro, in this instance, has nothing to do with a sanctimonious attitude towards ‘illicit’ sex, but is his breaching its security/privacy rules, imposed before or after football games, by bringing an unauthorised person onto the premises. 🙂
Hi arnie. 🙂
Interesting note….Bellerin recalled from his Watford loan. Most likely not a big deal, but….Would he be F.A. Cup tied?
Redders: 😀 It is more than “security/privacy rules”, it is about discipline. For good, or perhaps some may think not so good, Arsenal has a regime in place before the game. Measured workouts, measured calorie intake, and mental conditioning are all part of it. If one has signed up to such a regime, it is not fair to break it. Yes, there are temptations in life, but it is about discipline. Next time, someone might be tempted to take money and see a red card!
This is serious, more serious than security and privacy. But I agree it is between the player and his partner, and between the player and his club. 😀
RA, one aspect of the game that both officials and fans dislike is diving for either a well positioned free kick or a penalty. The issue is that the decisions are always subjective and open to criticism. The solution is simple yet it is still brushed aside by rules committees as they refuse to consider post decision reviews.
The door has been opened with goal line technology, and it seems to be very successful. Lets hope the next step is to review all penalty decisions, I believe it could be done in a manner that keeps the delay to a minimum and at the same time improves the integrity of the game.
This from the journals of a nincompoop who knows nozzink from nozzink, but does not mind sharing what he does not know. 🙂
The red tops. It seems we excoriate these journalist guys for doing what they are paid to do because loads of other people like to read their sensationalist nonsense, if only to tut and say what balderdash (or similar).
Many of them will probably admit that as an intelligent, decent human being, that Wenger would knock the Odious One (aka Maureenio) into a cocked hat.
Yet they persist in fermenting and facilitating a futile and frankly puerile war of words between the two of them, which is always presented in a way that favours the claptrap of the vile Moaning Minnie Maureenyo.
Why? Well read the second paragraph above. The red top guys need to sell newspapers to save their own jobs, because it is common knowledge that the papers are losing out big time to the blogs, forums and ‘news’ roundups to be found on the internet for free (mostly).
If you are all still around in 20 years time, I am pretty sure there will only be a nub of the current newspaper industry left and that in some ways will be reduction of our communication and free speech, however flawed, and the right to be informed, because whoever rules the internet (China?) will have a terrifying ability to influence the mind set of billions of people world wide.
GN5,
That is an interesting point and if the technology can be extended, your suggestion would be a good start. 🙂
arnie,
I am tickled that you can read my comment and interpret it in the way you have.
The whole point of what I was saying is that any prurient focusing on the sex element of the Giro story was completely wrong.
He appears to have breached the clubs rules on privacy or security and will be punished for that lack of discipline – not for having hanky panky as that is a private matter.
I think your belief that a simple carnal transgression like he committed is a serious disciplinary issue is pure bunkum.
Do you economics boys still live in the 19th Century? What next? Bring back the birch? Make him walk the plank or why not feed him to the lions and be done with it?
Redders: Ah, the red tops. Well, they are the red tops, and they dont affect us one bit. 😛 The poor sods have to earn a living after all!! And we all desire a little bit of scum to lighten our sorry lives, dont we? 😀
GN5: Technology will be put to use, I am sure at some point, and when required. Even then, it will be a matter of judgment in many cases. Judgment by a 4th/5th/6th official, or the referee, which do we prefer? My own feeling is that it is not quite so bad yet. But who knows! 😀 😀
In anay case, we reserve the right and the previlege to moan about decisions and luck and all that. For me, it is just part of the football fan’s life experience. On with the show!!!!! Oneards and upwards!!! 😀 😀 😀
arnie,
I have to go out for a while, and in my rush I did not include the relevant part of my comment that you seem to have entirely missed and felt the need to tell me what I had already said.
–“the only beef the club would have with Giro, in this instance, has nothing to do with a sanctimonious attitude towards ‘illicit’ sex, but is his breaching its security/privacy rules”
What happens when you breach the rules — you get disciplined!
One is integral with the other.
Bring back the birch, yes, I am all for that, Redders!!!! 😀 😀 I can deal with DIY tailoring, but no, breaking team curfew the night before a game is a step too far for me. If it were some other time, nay bother!! 😀 😀 😀 A hefty fine and limited suspension, perhaps even a suspended suspension, will work fine for me. 😀 😀 I am a sadist, just in case you did not realise. 😀
Yes, Redders, YOU GET DISCIPLINED. Period!!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀
arnie,
You say the Red Tops do not affect (bother) us one bit – well clearly they do, or bloggers would not keep referring to them,
As for you sating we desire a little bit of scum in our lives, you must speak for yourself – I don’t.
In any event, isn’t that a rather patronising and discriminatory attitude towards people trying to earn a living?
Looks like I was wrong about the early bookings, hmmmmm, not sure what happened there….must have been watching too many sliding cats.
Patronising, me? Nay, no way!!!!! 😀 😀 😀
LB
How about some balancing goats?
They’ll get you back on an even keel. 🙂
On the “technology” subject, We have, I’m sure, all watched TV pundits reviewing contentious refereeing decisions. Far from needing just a quick look at a monitor in order to make a correct decision they have to look at numerous different camera angles, often several times. Even then, if there are more than two pundits, they seldom come to the same conclusion. Each review can take minutes, this is not something that can be done on the touchline by the fourth official. Meanwhile the game is suspended and the fans are in the dark.
If multiple reviews are allowed, someone suggested three per team per game, imagine the pressure on the referee if the first one or two prove he made the wrong decision. The poor guy will be reduced to a nervous wreck by the end of the game.
I meant to add, referees are human just like us, they from time to time make mistakes just like us, we should learn to accept their frailty and live with it.
arnie, It is that bad! or you like many others would not be bothered to be critical of the decisions that go against us. Personally I think that it’s way past the time for the implementation of technology and methodology that is already proven in other sports.
The NHL is an example of one of the fastest sports yet they delay the game to verify the accuracy of every single scoring decision. The NFL review all touchdowns and the coaches are allowed to have three plays reviewed during a game – but the coaches reviews are subject to certain rules. In the case of the NFL the head on field referee makes the final decision and there has to be an indisputable reason for changing the on field live decision. In the case of the NHL the decision is phoned down to the referee. Both are successful and avoid incorrect decisions affecting the outcome of a game.
Oh, not all of us like to chin wag about referees decisions, Although I have indulged in the past I have always felt that referee’s get a bum rap and deserve the assistance that technology would bring.
Everton in the cup is Saturday early kick off.
(we have Munich away on the Tuesday after, so except for Friday evening, it couldn’t have been better)
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/fa-cup-sixth-round-date-confirmed
GN5: I am listening. 😀 It is just that I am a bit sceptical about the technology thing. Maybe part of it has to do with following too much cricket, where I think technology has effectively changed the way the game is played. To its detriment, I think.
But technology will come, surely and certainly. Will it take away officiating bias? Perhaps, but not quite so sure. Will it stop us moaning? Well I think it will not. Not all of us anyway.
I like being critical of decisions that go against us, and I like a little bit of a moan. I take it as a defence mechanism against the heartbreak that all of us, as football fans, have to take ocassionally. I think it helps us generate positive energy to move towards greater heights. But maybe not for everyone. 😀 😀 😀
Webb is a fucking rent boy he’s screwed us over so many times. Personally Gerrard should have gone 3 yellow cards + kicking the ball away twice. Sterling should have gone & Suarez should have been booked. The incident with Agger and Santi wasn’t a penalty imo and the OX challenge if Suarez didn’t do down like he’d been hit round the face with a kilo of beef he might have gotten a second penalty. Always the victims fucking bin dippers
GN5, do they review just “line” decisions or do they also review “judgement” calls?
One thing we tend to forget is that most decisions, such as the Suarez second penalty claim, are an OPINION of the referee. Is he to be second guessed by an off-field official with a different opinon?
Good day all and thanks for the comments.
I was rather hoping to lure some irate Scousers on here with this Post but it’s probably for the best that I didn’t.
Several have made the point that refereeing is a hard and thankless job and I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. It’s also part of a fan’s job to try and influence the referee by being as unreasonable as possible 🙂
Chas
You’re right about my comments about the first pen being contradictory. I suppose what I meant is that those sort of pens are always given so I accepted it as such.
As for technology, I’m undecided. There are good arguments for and against and I’m sitting on the fence for now…
Chas
Haven’t our last two early Saturday kick-offs been Liverpool away and Man City away? 😦
Norfolk,
I can’t fully answer you question, because I don’t know which decisions can or cannot be disputed, all I know for certain is that every scoring play is automatically reviewed and that only indisputable evidence is allowed to change an on field decision.
The dispute and review mechanism’s is not quick but it does avoid debatable decisions incorrectly determining the outcome of a game.
Rocky
as entertaining as ever. I wonder if managers actually encourage players to cheat wherever possible as diving when done with perfection is an art in itself and the game is so much faster than it was a few decades back.Not always a clear cut call with most refs.
With regards to Ollie he isn’t the first and won’t be the last and it is commonly known that George Best induldged on more than one occasion during a match at half time.:)
Obviously I am very pro technology, football is still in the dark ages relying on one individual to make every single decision. There is now so much money in the game that corruption will always find a way in, people are only human and the possibility of a quick few thousand will always be an influence – it has the same pull as a pretty girl – just ask Giroud.
Of course it does not have to be corruption, as among other reasons, an obstructed view can also lead to an incorrect decision.
Kelsey I’ve often wondered if managers instruct their players to foul or dive, after all, they can do so without using those exact words. However I’ve never heard of a player making that sort of comment about either their current or previous managers – have you?
Kelsey, Gn5
Jaap Stam confirmed in his autobiography that Funguson instructed his players to carry out rotational fouling on certain Arsenal players (Vieira, to wind him up; Reyes, to intimidate him etc).
Rocket,
One of the ‘incidents’ in the game involving the Web master occurred when young Sterling seemed to push him in the chest in a fit of rage.
The last time that happened was when Di Canio pushed a rather weedy Paul Alcock and got a hundred game ban, when the ref did a brilliant backward triple salko and lay splattered on the pitch.
To not even give a severe rebuke or to issue a yellow card or perhaps a red card was surely not in line with the ‘crackdown’ on referee baiting. Odd!
Rocky,
That does not surprise me one bit, he would, and it sounds like he did, do anything and everything to gain an advantage over the opposition. It was always easy to dislike him!
Redders
From my memory he did sternly rebuke Sterling for having poked him on the sternum (try saying that after a few beers). But, like you, I was surprised he didn’t issue a card.
If Sterling had made that contact on Suarez I reckon the world record for a somersaults from a standing start would have been shattered 🙂
Plus an appeal for a penalty, which Web may or may not have given and depending on Webb’s mood could have been awarded to either or both teams.
Oh OK a little imagination needed there!! 🙂
That is probably a Shardism on second thoughts!! 🙂
A penalty for both teams! I like that 🙂
Rocky
I don’t believe in the curse of the 12.45 kick off. We’ve beaten other teams this season at that time.
It just so happens that the light blue oilers on a run like a steamroller going down the Matterhorn and the dippers firing like Big Ollie in a brothel were always going to be tricky fixtures away from home (Big Ollie again 🙂 ).
It’s a bit like saying we always get beat when Collina referees because when he is officiating, you’re always playing the Hungary of Puskas or the Brazil of Pele. 🙂
Pray, what exactly is going on here? 😀
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgxBkQoCcAArF7v.jpg:large
arnie
German humour (oxymoron)
Chas
what I’m really moaning about is that I have to get up at 7.30am on a Saturday to watch the early kick-off here in Canadia 🙂
What about us poor feckers who have to get up at that time to travel down to watch it live? 🙂
Let them eat cake, Chas, as Marie Antionette said to Giro! 🙂
Some of us have to be up and about at 6:30 a.m, and looking for someone to have pity and let me watch it. Chances? Fat! 😦
Rocky. Great post. I guess you missed the January transfer window where Webb transferred from Man UTD to Arsenal 🙂
Reference someones earlier comment about three video challenges during a game. Absolutely no way!! The only technology (in my opinion) is the Golden eye or whatever it is called to verify the ball crossed the goal line. That’s it. Any other “time outs” will destroy the game. The magic of human error (bad ref calls) and so on is what makes our great game of football (please don’t ever call it soccer again) the greatest game on earth. What would we do in the pubs if we could not rag on the refs about their shite calls 🙂
Rocky , loved the post. Incredible writing as usual. Amusing with plenty of good points.
TRENT,
Great contribution to the discussion especially the bit about the draw with Chelsea. It was obvious mourihno sent his team out to play extra rough to bait us, or intimidate, then to call us boring after, because we didn’t fall for it.
I look forward to reading more comments from you.
Hi JanMan,
Did you know that football used to be originally called ‘soccer’ in England in the early days when various splits between rugby football and what is now called ‘football’ were happening and when the rules were being drawn up.
Mind you American football used to be known as ‘Rugby stop start’ or some such. 🙂
As far as using video to make decisions during a game goes, they can’t even decide the correct way to proceed when they have days to deliberate.
Maybe we ought to have a video technology trial.
Several incidents are chosen from each game after we’ve all seen umpteen replays from various angles. Then, if we all reach an unanimous verdict, we’ll say we have a pass, if we can’t agree, a fail.
Surely we’ll just end up arguing about the video decisions instead of the refs. Similar to the situation in cricket where DRS is always called into question.
Line calls in tennis are either in or out. Football is far too subjective.
Was David Silva offside against the chavs on Saturday? What about all that first phase second phase shite they introduced? If you can’t do it for offsides, how on Earth can you do it for fouls?
Hello GN5. You make some good points about introduction of technology. It is easy in the NFL as play normally runs only a few moments then there is a long pause between the next play therefore there is more than enough time for review of any challenges or critical calls. I can’t really comment on NHL as I do not follow it. Yes the game of our football is much faster than ever before but regardless it is not down to one man to make decisions. The ref is now wired into his line assistants and they are in constant contact with each other so therefore there are in fact 6 eyes on the game. In my humble opinion I believe the only technology that must be introduced into football is the Golden eye to determine the fact of whether or not the ball crossed the line. I may be a little old fashioned here but that is my opinion. Yes football is a multi pound business today but I do not believe we need to take the human factor out of the game. A ref and two linesman along with the Golden eye should be all that we need. For some reason or other I am a great believer in allowing for the human error factor. Also like it or not where would our game be if fans could not discuss decisions, that is all part of the game 🙂
Nice picture arnie. Per’s pants are about the same length as my Bermuda’s.
RA, the font of knowledge 🙂
My mind as I am sure all of us is thinking about tomorrow.
We are definitely the underdogs or under bratwurst to our German contributer but if we can only start better over the first 15/20 minutes than we have recently,we should get a good game
I can never understand why we so often start on the back foot,anyone have the answer ?
We can win but not conceding is another thing, that is the worry..
RA: No I have never heard of English football being referred to as Soccer, I thought that was strictly an American thing. Likewise I have never heard of American football being called Rugby! 🙂 🙂
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/the-game/origins.html
“under bratwurst” 🙂
I think the yellow card more than anything should be looked at as if you look at the reasons for a player receiving it they are wide and varied.
Sometimes a near leg breaking tackle is not even seen and goes unpunished or at best the player gets the benefit of the doubt and gets a yellow card,especially if early in a game.
A player scores and takes his shirt off, yellow card.
A free kick is awarded or a player just kicks the bal
laway,yellow card.
kepper takes his time late on in the game, yellow card,yet the forth official can register at least 3 minutes extra time and the ref plays five.Does he get carded.
4 completely different scenarios yet they ge the same punishment.
What do we think for City v Barca.
5-5 goal fest?
Do we want the camel diddlers to go out now or a bit later after their fixtures have built up a bit? They’ve got such a big squad, I’m not sure the fixture congestion argument really holds water.
Man City: Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Demichelis, Clichy, Jesus Navas, Fernandinho, Toure, Kolarov, Silva, Negredo.
Subs: Pantilimon, Richards, Lescott, Nasri, Dzeko, Javi Garcia, Jovetic.
Pellegrini playing 3 full backs and only 1 striker. Must be worried about Cesc.
I can’t help but believe Arsenal would benefit from the introduction of technology. I feel it would make it very difficult for corruption as corrupt decisions would be changed by using technology. It would also show up the usless refs we could all see which ref had the most decisions changed using technology. These are the reasons why i am for using technology.
Tip top, Mr Rock.
I don’t think Webb is an especially bad ref, in fact in a very bad vintage of English refs, he’s probably one of the better ones. He’s really good on game management, communicating with players without pandering to them, but when he does make mistakes, they do tend to be corkers. And his failure to give Suarez the penalty in the second incident falls into that category, I think.
However, I maintain that the first one was definitely not a penalty. Contact does not equal a foul, anywhere on the pitch, including in the penalty area. We’ve all just become accustomed to the two being the same thing, but they’re not. And the cheating of the likes of Suarez should be stamped out. Not that it will.
On the subject of Suarez, I did think is was a brilliant bit of self parody from the racist biter: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qUg8tAaStI.
Now come on Barça!!!
26
I’ve seen that before and it’s very funny.
I fall into the Micky camp of actually quite liking Suarez these days. He’s a phenomenal player and great to watch, apart from the diving!
In fact Liverpool are a very attractive team to watch with their SAS attack, all of whom are on top form.
Putting their playing skills to one side, the one who annoys me most out of the three is Sturridge with his horrible goal celebration and his constant petulance.
No argument, Rocky, Suarez is top class in terms of ability. But I’m a bit closer to Exile in terms of disliking his character. Fair play to him this season though, he’s been a true team player, after being blocked from joining the best football club in the world.
Have liked Sturridge for a long time. Apols.
1-0 to Barça, City down to ten men – ho ho ho!
I really like Pellegrini but can anyone explain to me why he has such belief in Demichelis? A complete mystery to me.
Would you rather play Barca or City later on in this competition if we get past Bayern?
I would prefer to play Barca.
Ooh tough one. And entirely hypothetical of course!
I can’t see us beating either one in the CL (I can see us beating City in the return PL game, because I think they have less desire for that). But if I had to choose, I’d prefer Barça as well, on the basis that the 6-3 might play on the minds of our players a bit, whereas we might play with a bit more freedom against Barça. Plus our CL record against English sides is rank. Not that our record against Barça is too great…….
The City fans are rubbish, they should be driving their team forward but most of the time they’re sulking.
I’m not watching 26, but if what you say is true it shows quickly the money turns passionate fans into grumpy success junkies.
City’s support was great when they were winning nothing!
Another dodgy linesman decision at the Etihad?
(I’m only speculating from what I’ve read on the Beeb website).
Testify, Rocky!
Yup, lino wrongly gave offside against St Cesc, was a walk in goal that should’ve stood.
Oh 2-0 now!!!
City have benefitted from a lot of strange linesmen decisions this year at their own ground (not least against us).
Coincidence, I’m sure…
There is one massive and obvious downside to the prospect of City going out of the CL, that they’ll really go for it in the PL. But I can’t resist, I enjoy seeing them suffer too much!
Nice post Rocky. I always think that if referee decisions are exceedingly one sided, with no favourable decisions in return, and those decisions affects the outcome of the result, then a team has the right to complain. I feel that happened when we faced Man City at the Etihad and Chelsea at the Emirates. In this game I can see where Liverpool are coming from but there was some leniency shown to them in return so it is difficult to say that this was a result changing moment.
I also,like you, questioned whether it was more a coming together, but I am aware that most others don’t see it that way, so maybe it is just you and I alone in that view Rocky. The Ox was clumsy and naive but in slow motion at a certain angle you can see Suarez looking at the Ox and lean his body across and into him. Yes he just gets there first and gets the touch, but IMO it was only ever a touch that was designed to draw the foul and not to retain ball possession from that point onwards. I would argue that Suarez had already lost control of the ball when he toe pocked it away from the Ox. Once you add in your brilliantly described Marlin impression then you can see why the combination of factors put a doubt in Webb’s mind.
I would also say that if awarding a penalty is only purely about any type of illegal contact made on the offensive player, regardless of whether they would have had further control of the ball, then the high studs first challenge by Skirtel on Santi would also merit a penalty.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! serves Shitty right for playing Demichelis. 😀 😀 😀
GoonerB: what’s wrong with drawing a foul?
Fantastic post Rocky, with a nice sting in the tail 😀
Quite amazing how City sat off Barca tonight, at most they were walking pace, passing it round and not breaking sweat then suddenly impart a bit of speed of movement and a couple of quick passes and they’re through, yet you look at Kompany in his interview and he is dripping in sweat and out of breath, and you wonder why, it wasn’t like they chased Barca around all night as they didn’t press the ball much at all.
I can’t quite figure out how Barca do it, its like watching a team play Chess Football, making seemingly small inconsequential passes and all of a sudden its check mate.
The one non penalty decision that always surprises me is the one Tony Adams described as “a free one”, it happens when a player is about to shoot, it seems that if a player is about to shoot defenders are allowed to lunge at the player to block the ball, and if he has got his shot away and then gets clattered by the defender its ok.
Compare that to a full back about to clear a ball up the pitch and the centre forward coming across to attempt to block it, if he doesn’t make the ball, its a free kick and normally a booking all day.
I have never quite understood why referee’s apply a different set of criteria to challenges in the box and out of the box.
How is Pellegrini blaming the ref for sending a man off?
Why the hell is his defender making that tackle, he was never going to get the ball.
Have just read those comments from Pellegrini (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manuel-pellegrini-slams-referee-after-3160453?) – I’m all for managers taking defeat badly but he really is incoherent, attacking the ref’s nationality (apparently a Swede can’t referee the mighty Man City) and saying he was doing Barcelona a favour for having done a bad job two years ago. City really have obsessed about the CL – given Pellegrini’s strange comments, I wonder what the failure of that obsession is going to do to them. A lot of damage, I hope.
Peaches/ Rasp: Post in nuts, please. 😀
, Nicola Rizzoli.will be the twelfth man tonight,you just wait and see. 🙂 He is our lucky omen.
Demichellis was always going to be the weal link as so it proved.Watching Barca they make ecerything seem so effortless could even find their men if they were blindfold.Maybe not quite the force they were but still a world class team,and yet physically quite small..Maszherano is under 5″9″.
Pelligrini got his team selection wrong buy hey who cares.
Now we most probably face our biggest test of the season and Idon’t expect many changes from Sunday though this might be a bit too much for Sanogo.
Szsney will be back and I have a sneaking feeling Gnabry will feature.Will Jack play with Arteta out. IMO not a given.
peaches kindly look at the contols,they are misfiring on me.
I shall not be surfing today just going for my quarterly MOT.
First up. Thanks Rocky. As usual, your post lead to some great comments.
So, I learn that Webb was a “copper”. Mmmm, falls squarely into my generalization about Gentleman who like black uniforms 🙂
26
That Suarez ad is very funny. To clear things up (Rocky said I like Suarez), I like Suarez the footballer, not the diver, and I have no idea if he is a racist or not. He made a racist comment, for sure, and I don’t like that.
Also, interested to read that Japp Stam revealed that Fergie ordered rotational fouling. As GN5 said, easy to find reasons to dislike the man.
I have had to google Ollie, as I had no idea what the story was other than what I read here about him being caught pants down. Will he be ready mentally to start tonight?
Delighted to read about the Barca win. I’d far rather play them than City in the next round. Nice place to visit and so on 🙂
Kelsey,
Why, oh mystic one, will the ref be our twelfth man tonight?
Kelsey
No surfing today? Can’t blame you, the waves look messy as hell today in Wimbledon. Good luck with the MOT, and hope they don’t discover any nasty Frank Ribery’s out back 🙂
Right, Match Day, or Sausage Time.
some sublime football last night, from both teams. Can we match their performance tonight? Not so sure
Micky
He is our lucky mascot,never lost when he has been in charge of our games (total 2 )
And why not Evonne? The Ox is miles better than Messi, so that should help. So please don’t doom so early in the morning 🙂
total 2 🙂
Don’t tell me, both reserve games against non league Kettering Town 🙂
sorry, I am in a bad mood again 😦 That house moving lark might be a tad too much for me
One of my ex-husbands was in Spain last week and watched Barca v Sevilla game there. He told me that Sevillae were winning 1:0 until Messi went berserk and scored 4!!
Not good Ox being better than Messi, we are playing Bayern tonight
Barcelona at home 2-1 remember the russian dwarf’s goal.
Guardiola has never won at The Emirates.
correction – Messi scored twice and had 2 assists, terrible performance
one of your ex husbands evonne 🙂
oh great Kelsey, we should have no problems then 😉
yeah, the second one. Have you got a problem with that ? Is it ok for you, Raddy and a few others to change partners every 4 years?
The more Mourinho open’s his mouth the more I despise him. He thinks he is the oracle of football, and Pelligrini didn’t like a northern european ref i.e. Swedish. …Well, Knowing me, Knowing you aha. He met his Waterloo last night lol.
me only married twice. Once for 9 months and now entering year 32.
michaelgooner is the king of ex wives.i think he has had more than I have had haircuts 🙂
oh yeah, forgot about GM 🙂 Syrup has been round the block a few times too. Anyway, men don’t necessarily marry their partners, me is a Catholic – wouldn’t live in sin
Maureen is a despicable, raving mad piece of poo, hate him, always have.
As far as Ollie is concerned,what’s wrong having sex for three hours before a game. Nice work if you can get it 🙂
Shall we have a swingometer on how many AA regulars have been married and the predicted score of how many wives they will have had in their lifetime supporting Arsenal.
“Pelligrini didn’t like a northern european ref i.e. Swedish. …Well, Knowing me, Knowing you aha”
Ha ha ha brilliant
Might “Are you Francois Hollande in disguise?” be heard if Ollie starts 🙂
evonne you can move in with me,we should get a good discount on all the medication we take 🙂
Errol Flynn,died the right way whilst on the job 🙂
Sorry about being a bit frivalous,but anything to take my mind off the game untl tonight.
“evonne you can move in with me”
Blimey, that could work. Dogs, sensitive hair 🙂
ha ha ha ha 🙂 Sorry Kelsey, but I have already wasted all my energy and money on funny guys. The medication bit is tempting though…
I love pills. Can I come. Promise to say hello to dogs.
Must go.
the more the merrier, pills I mean 🙂
I sincerely hope we will be ROLFing tomorrow morning too.
Motning all. aha, match day, against Bayern is it? oh dear!!!!! my heartbeat just went double. 😀 😀 😀
The temptation to get back under the duvet was substantial. But got myself up. 😀 We will be fine if we do not allow them to score. 😛
Morning arnie, I’m just working on your PM – would you mind if I changed your clever title for something a tad more ‘hit enticing? 🙂
Morning all. Just reading through Kelsey, Evonne and Micky’s comments and I was concerned for a minute that I had hit the wrong button and found myself on a swingers blog site.
26May re your 10.26 yesterday. You are quite right there is no problem in drawing a foul. It is part of the modern game and, even if one doesn’t like it, part of modern forward play. Those that don’t do it will be left behind by those that do. I was more looking at reasons as to why Webb may not have awarded what every Liverpool fan, 99% of the media, and many Arsenal fans considered a stone wall penalty. I wonder if Webb spotted Suarez make a deliberate movement towards the Ox instead of taking the line he was running on and therefore felt he was somewhat complicit in the collision even if he just managed to poke the ball away before the Ox got there. That slight doubt may have become more once Suarez did a Tom Daley on the floor.
Rasp,
what about, “Who won the War ” 🙂
Kelsey …. don’t mention the war 😕
Morning again all ……..
…….. New post …. (with original title 😛 )
There are 2 mistakes that doctors are monsters and do not believe that a
doctor in a medical medical malpractice law firm in delray beach, florida malpractice case.