Some Fighting Spirit Returns

Arsenal: Mannone, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Wilshere, Arteta, Cazorla, Walcott, Giroud, Podolski. subs: Shea, Santos, Djourou, Jenkinson, Coquelin, Arshavin, Chamakh.

The line-up was greeted warmly with Koscielny in for Santos who was too busy putting bsr’s shirt on Ebay and Theo playing right side instead of the injured, flying winger Rambo. On paper both changes made the team stronger and it would need to be at its most resistant at an intimidating Veltins Arena. Talk of Micky finding a Schalke fan website to translate from was interrupted when his search inadvertently led to a different type of German sport site.

The game kicked off and the first minute immediately saw Schalke in behind the left back position. Luckily the cross went deep and Alan Smith started to whine already. Soon after, Vermaelen made a good tackle and started to regain some of his shattered confidence. Arsenal had a small period of possession ending in Theo overplaying, resulting in a Schalke break and the defence looked vulnerable.

On 9 minutes Podolski lost the ball in midfield, another quick break ended in an Affelay shot well saved by Mannone at the near post. Two minutes later Theo lost the ball again in midfield and another shaky episode ended with a Schalke header just over the bar from the resulting corner.

Schalke were pressing high up and the midfield refusing to take the ball from the back four resulted in a few hoofs forward from keeper and full backs. On 15’, Vermaelen was skinned again but Farfan ran the ball out of play. A super Jack dribble then saw Arsenal win two corners on the trot. The first nearly allowed Jack to sneak in at the near post in a training ground move.

Eighteen minutes in and a poor defensive header from Schalke fell to Giroud who stumbled a little but Theo following up tapped the ball home. 1-0 and a confidence boost for the yellows.

With Arsenal’s confidence now growing, a super ball from Santi allowed Podolski to cross but it flew over Theo’s head in the centre.

Cazorla was then booked for handball before he delivered the best Arsenal pass of the game to Wilshere. It looked perfect for a top corner, left-footed curler but instead Jack fed the ball wide to Podolski who seemed to trip, then regain his feet which threw the Schalke defence off guard allowing the cross to come in and Giroud to power the ball home unmarked. 2-0 to the good guys.

Sagna made a great covering challenge after Podolski lost the ball in midfield, followed by Walcott doing the same. Schalke looked dangerous when Arsenal lost the ball in those middle areas all game and so it was to prove. On 33’ Giroud went down clutching the back of his leg. A kick rather than a hamstring tear brought relief all round for the Gooner faithful. A superb Wilshere dribble winning a corner was followed by more shakiness from our captain looking anything but comfortable at left back. Luckily Farfan blasted over the bar.

Alan Smith seemed to be willing Schalke to get one back before half-time as did the commentator plus the whole team back in the studio. Fuchs was booked for a foul on Walcott and Giroud unfortunately directed his header straight at the keeper from Cazorla’s free-kick.

Some good Arsenal possession and strong hold-up play from Giroud had Alan Smith sounding more and more gutted but into the second minute of first half injury time, he got his wish. Cazorla slipped over and two passes (the second from Holtby, a gem) put Huntelaar through and a clinical left foot finish was the last kick of the first forty five. 2-1 and the ugly sisters in the Sky studio would now have a feast of criticism with which to sate their anti-Arsenal appetite. The mute button it was for me.

The second half began and Arsenal had a fine chance to restore their 2 goal margin but Giroud connected with his right shin from a Podolski cross. A poor defensive header from the BFG wasn’t punished before Giroud and Walcott found themselves in an identical position (centre forward) from a Podolski pass. Huntelaar, who always scores every chance he’s ever presented with (according to the commentary team), then missed a one on one with Don Vito making a fine block. The Dutch striker looked marginally offside.

The pressure was starting to build and Arteta made a couple of crucial interceptions in his defensive third. Arsenal still look like a team with no talkers present. Somebody needs to gee the others up when the team comes under pressure. A fine piece of defensive work from Podolski saw the ball end up with Theo being fouled and everyone could pause for breath at last.

On 59’ Jack started to look leggy and when Theo raced clear, Jack produced a tired looking pass which was easily cut out.  The referee then produced a bizarre decision to deny Podolski of a chance to score a third and crucial goal for Arsenal. A Schalke defender went down in the area with a leg injury, the referee didn’t stop the game immediately but only when Podolski was about to shoot. It wasn’t a head injury so Podolski’s frustration was understandable.

The next few minutes saw a Holtby shot, Mannone out to deny Huntelaar and an Affelay shot into Mannone’s midriff. The equaliser looked like it was coming, Vermaelen got sucked into the middle leaving Farfan clear at the far post. His shot was deflected in by Vermaelen as it flew past Mannone. 2-2 with over 20 still to go and I couldn’t bear the commentary anymore, so off it went. Smith had what he wanted.

(As an aside, my brother applied for an Arsenal credit card to receive a 1989 away shirt signed by Alan Smith. He was tempted to ask for one that hadn’t been signed. What is it with ex-Arsenal players queueing up to take a pop at the club. I suppose as we’re the most talked about team in the country it’s an easy way to make a few bob.)

The BFG slipped and Schalke were nearly in again. However the response from the yellows was positive after Schalke’s equaliser. A couple of corners for the away side followed. Wilshere laying the ball back to Cazorla who blazed over and Theo hitting the post when offside, showed some signs of a revival of heart from the Gunners.

81’ and Mannone held on well from a fierce drive with a Schalke player waiting to pounce. Another quick break saw Huntelaar fire over the bar again confounding the goal every chance theory. Vermaelen made a great saving tackle in the 85th minute leading to some cold sponge treatment. Good tackles from Tommy and the BFG preceded a fine punch from Mannone. Could we hang on?

The substitutions to waste some injury time came on 90 minutes, Coquelin for Cazorla and Santos for Podolski. Barnetta came on for Schalke wearing a superb version of the kind of moustache that Big Al adores. The final minute of the four gave Arsenal a great chance to sneak the three points and put us back in charge of the group, but Theo hit the goalkeeper’s legs when he, perhaps, should have gone round him. It was the last kick of the game.

Most Arsenal fans would have taken a point before the game started but with Olympiacos beating Montpelier, it’s still wide open. We now look as though we’ll need to get some sort of result in Greece. Still we could still finish top of the group, too, so all to play for.

Ratings:

Mannone – Made some excellent saves and couldn’t really be faulted for either of the goals. My MOTM ……8

Mertesacker – Lost his footing and bearings a few times but produced some great interceptions and tackles……8

Vermaelen – Didn’t inspire a great deal of confidence at left back, but grew into the game. I wonder how Andre would have coped with Farfan?…….7

Sagna – Some great tackles but sometimes a little sloppy which is unusual for Bacary. Still he has been out for a long spell and is regaining full match sharpness….7

Koscielny – Kos looked a little nervous as well after a spell on the bench and is still finding his feet at Champions League level……7

Arteta – Not Mikel’s best game for the Gunners. He looks a little tired to me…….7

Wilshere – Jack gets me up off my feet and is starting to show signs of blossoming partnership with Santi. Now gets a restorative break from the League…..8

Cazorla – Santi will appreciate sharing some of the creative load with Jack. Unfortunate to slip for the first Schalke goal…….7

Podolski – Lukas worked extremely hard again and his assist for Giroud’s goal was superb. He was really unlucky to be pulled back by the ref when about to unleash a howitzer in the 2nd half…..8

Giroud – A great header for the second after stumbling during the build up to the first. Worked hard but we still don’t seem to be playing to his strengths  …..7

Walcott – Theo was lively throughout. Still makes the wrong decision when he doesn’t get his head up, but judging by his voice in his post-match interview, he’s been pretty poorly, so all credit to him ….8

Subs

Santos – 90′

Coquelin – 90′

Written by chas

True to his word, MickyDidIt89 tracked down a Schalke site and has translated their report of the game for us to read. Google translation has come up with some amusing phrasing which we think adds to the flavour of the report …. you must read this with a German accent in your head (or you will be shot 🙂 )

Copied from “schalkefan.de”:

A roller coaster of emotions.  Only the joyful astonishment that S04 apparently seamlessly to connect to the power of London and Arsenal on Matchday of the Champions League group stage recorded directly and violently.Then the bare horror after the incredibly stupid mistake Neustätdters novel, the Walcott the 0:1 on a silver platter with a bow on it served. Then the first signs of resignation because Podolski the fresh substitute for the injured Uchida Hoeger kidding and unchallenged can beat a cross for Giroud, who even slightly non drängter than the face may even stand on six-yard box. Finally, the frustration, as Schalke is always associated with high balls at Arsenal’s strong central defense. And then again the hope as Huntelaar hits with the half time whistle out of the blue to 1:2.  The irrepressible desire – not only on the field, even in the stands – the guests after half-time to pour it 2-2 and eventually the boundless joy, as it will finally Farfán. Schalke gegen Arsenal hatte alles! Schalke against Arsenal had everything! It was war over long periods is a great game. 

Was it a heroic-fought point?  Was it a victory verschenkter?  Or was it in the end lucky to Unnerstall in the last scene of the game his foot to some degree turns, stop the ball on the back of the net?  I think it was a little bit of everything. Schalke hatte seine Chancen. Schalke had his chances. Schalke got down well.  But Schalke made again the glaring errors that pervade the season like a royal blue thread.  Neustaedter that should never try in life, play from the halfway line to the back of the head with a back pass, he will know himself.  That neither Giroud Podolski yet we may be free to act, word has spread now to Hoeger, Matip and Höwedes.  Two errors, two serious errors even that had a hair that the result of a good performance on its head. 

Because it was a good performance. Rarely seen berennen one Schalke team so unleashes the gates of a strong opponent, as one saw yesterday after the halftime break.  The balance was not enforced, he was rushed through by brute force.  So vehemently Schalke went to work, that after the 2:2 lacked strength for further exploits and you eventually – quite rightly by the way – was happy with the 2-2.

On this game between Schalke and Arsenal, I will certainly think back often. No matter how they go crazy and suddenly exciting preliminary group remains to be stated that the Blues were able to confirm its strong performance from the “first leg”.  It was not a one two weeks ago at the Emirates Stadium.  In the form of yesterday I’m at Schalke and the other Champions League history not worry.

227 Responses to Some Fighting Spirit Returns

  1. I can’t get to the end of the German one. Great match report. I thought we’d probably lose and I would have taken a point beforehand.

  2. SharkeySuresGhost says:

    Tell the truth…Chas wrote both of those didn’t he…??!!

  3. If we beat Montpellier we’ll be in a good position as one or both of the other teams have to drop points. God I’m clever

  4. Big Raddy says:

    Great stuff from Chas. Not so sure about the other bloke.

    I like the German sports site. If only she had a moustache .

  5. kelsey says:

    Great write up and photos chas. pity i only saw the first thirty minutes ..

    Any chance to see all 4 goals ?

  6. Rasp says:

    Great stuff thanks chas and Micky.

    A few Raspesque bullet points:

    1. A draw is an OK result, we’ll be OK if we beat Montpellier at home and Scahlke beat Olympiacos.
    2. Mannone had his 2nd really good game in a row … should we even consider bringing back Sz when he’s fit again whilst the Don is in such good form?
    3. Why did various Arsenal players keep losing their footing .. the Schalke players didn’t?
    4. Away fans magnificent again – but how good are those Schalke supporters
    5. The referee’s a Bratwurst
    6. TV was better than Santos, but he’s not a LB … we need Gibbs back for totnum

  7. Big Raddy says:

    My Ratings:

    Mannone: Top performance from a man who is winning me round 9

    Sagna: Did his job. Lost his man for the 2nd goal. 6

    BFG. Another good game. Needs to check his stud length. 7

    Kos. Much better 7

    TV. Not a LB. Positional sense average but against a fine winger 5

    JW. Worked hard defensively. Needs more games 7

    Caz. Poor stud choice cost us the game. Good game though 7

    Arteta. Nothing fancy, just does his job. 7

    Pod. Never stopped running. Ref and Theo denied him goals 8

    Theo. Team much better with Theo but needs to learn to cross 7

    Giroud. Lovely goal. Missed a couple. 7

    AW. Tactics so much better than the first leg. Would have liked to see Coquelin earlier 8

  8. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. If Santos cannot be trusted to be Gibbs backup, what is the point of him?

    The ref had a decent game apart from one stupid decision with Podolski. Much better than most PL refs. Not fussy, let play flow, etc

    It was refreshing to see a game where neither side dived or feigned injury.

    As you say, great fans and almost all behind the goal standing – could German stewarding be better than ours?

  9. I think Santos may be on his way soon Raddy.

  10. kelsey says:

    The german fans were singing.

    “We don’t care and you don’t matter “

  11. richie says:

    @MickeyDI6:55 from last post. So O.K you don’t agree on wage parity then who decides which players deserve to earn more? I gave the Pires Gilberto combo example from the invincibles. You could just as easily use Arteta and Cazorla now. Miguel does all the dirty work, Santi the spectacular stuff, who gets paid more? I can’t understand this type of thinking? If you have longer with the club sure you deserve to be earning more, based on the fact that everyone in work usually gets a raise year on year (Maybe not so since the recession, but generally yes).

    I mean are you telling me that if a young “starlet” arrives at our club and starts to bang in goals he should be paid more? Why because he’s a striker? Because if that’s your argument I think it’s a bit flat. If the young “whipper snapper” notches up 25 goals in his first season with us does that mean “he’s” now the man? What if the reason he’s banging them in is because he’s got “God” behind him, playing him in with perfect defence splitting through balls that hand him the goals on a plate? I can’t get the idea that the glory hunting striker is the man. Same way you can’t tell me “God” should be paid more than “Safe Hands” between the sticks, who leaves the defenders nothing to do because every ball played into the box he claims.

    Come on all you guys that want to pay one player more than the next give me some logic. Explain your reasoning and how it works, because I still don’t get it! If “A” gets more than “B” does “B” catch him up if “A” has a bad spell? If a player comes in and is fantastic for a season “a la Flamini” is he on big wages and what happens if next season he flops? Or what about Helb put him alongside a fantastic midfield and he too looks like he’s the man, only suddenly take away those around him and he’s a very ordinary player, how would your pay scheme cope with that?

    Right now thats out of the way I can read Chas’s wonderful post he says hopefully 🙂

  12. kelsey says:

    As always, thanks Chas.

  13. Big Raddy says:

    richie. You make a very good argument

  14. chas says:

    I think the two comments at 10:12 could have been used instead of my half of the post and saved me the time. 🙂

    richie,
    I agree with what you say as to how hard it is to decide differentials.
    I’m quite pleased we didn’t offer bsr 220k a week.
    The counter argument is that we have to pay the going rate and can only do that with our current wage bill if some get less to pay for those who get more.

  15. Danny says:

    I see there’s some complaints about the ref but don’t forget they should have had a clear penalty when Mertesacker handled – more of a handball than the one against Santi vs Man U.
    We had a bit of luck last night that’s been missing recently e.g. our first goal, maybe the 2nd too etc
    Overall a descent result but we’re not playing well, the players don’t know each other yet and a season that was supposed to be based on Diaby and Gibbs couldn’t possibly last long. The match against Liverpool showed what this team is capable of……

  16. chas says:

    Mertesacker had his arms withdrawn behind him.
    How can that be given as a penalty?
    He wasn’t making his body bigger to block the ball but trying to get them out of the way.

  17. Big Raddy says:

    Have to agree with chas. Not arm to balll. Never a penalty and neither was Santi’s.

  18. richie says:

    Just as I thought great match review Chas! I’m right up there with you on the pundits especially our own. What is it with Smudger and Keown? Or Parlour? Are they watching the same match? I have a theory that they feel they have to do us down trying to come across neutral, so they try to sound like they couldn’t be ex Arse. Unfortunately they sound like Gooner “Haters”!

  19. slimgingergooner says:

    I did notice some comments yesterday blaming Vermaelen for the 2nd goal, but I just want to stand up for him, because if you watch it again you will see its Kozzer who gets sucked under the ball leaving Vermaelen 2 on 1 at the back with a split second to make a decision. He rightly goes towards the man nearest the ball, but he fluffs his header with the ball falling to Farfan at the back post who has time to slot it in.

    Just saying! 🙂

  20. I just watched the highlights a gain. Theo should have passed at the end. Mertesacker was falling so it’s natural to have you arms down. I can’t see how that’s a penalty.

  21. great report Chas
    It was a better performance without doing anything spectacular.
    I’m glad santos was demoted, we looked more solid, but TV still struggled. We are missing Kieren Gibbs soooooooo much, his injury has cost us in many ways, we need world class cover at LB in January.
    I wish the emirates could generate an atmosphere like ze germans did last night, but our away fans were brilliant yet again, and to be heard in that deutch atmosphere is a credit to them.
    I’m glad Wengers touchline ban did not run in to last night, i fear that we would have lost if it had.
    And along this theme how does Mancini escape uefa punishment for his ref abuse….. all wenger has to do is sneeze and the lynch mob is out!
    My ratings though harsher
    vito7, bac7,BFG7, Koz6, TV6, Art7, LJW7, Caz6, Pod6,OG7, Theo6

  22. Jonathon. We won’t ever get “World class” cover in any position

  23. ManthanDavda says:

    Great Match Report.. I am really worried for walcott situation now he is getting better day by day.. Please pay him little more if he wants he deserves it now.. I was not a fan of theo but seeing him performing so well i am becoming his fan he can be our new RVP.. His contract situation is different from cashely,nasri and brave sir robin none of them wanted to stay but theo is eager to stay.. Seeing his attitude towards the game… I beg Arsene to slove dis situation asap i cannot see him banging goals against us in different color jersey.. Please Arsene sign him we will get better and better with this team.. Rocsiky,daiby,gibbs and rambo and scez will be coming from injury we have strong team please sign new contract walcott……

  24. GM
    we live in hope 🙂
    & i hope for Falcao and 1 day Guardiola

  25. i don’t think Theo did that great Manthan
    He was a constant threat yes, but he missed some obvious runs by OG. I was starting to think he was ignoring him for selfish reasons.

  26. ManthanDavda says:

    @jonathan I agree with you.. But now he is better player then before… OG is hardworker i really feel for dat lad… He gives 100% he hardly misses good crosses fingures crossed want atleast one throphy no matter which

  27. I don’t think Theo was that great last night either

  28. ManthanDavda says:

    I agree with all of you but we cant loose him.. He is getting better and better,,,,

  29. Rasp says:

    Richie @ 10:28, I don’t want to keep harping on about an old debate when we have an new post to discuss, but I think you are forgetting that it is all about market forces

    As far as I am aware Arsenal are the only one of the top clubs that has tried a system of wage parity. The reason is simple, the big clubs want the best players and the best players demand the highest wages. So although it would be nice to reward according to length of service, it is far more important to recruit the best players you can afford and overpaying players who are unproven or just not good enough reduces our budget for top players. Its market forces … we’re a business.

  30. richie says:

    @BR 10:39 Thanks mate, I’m not totally black and white on this. I’m ready and willing to be persuaded but as yet I’ve not heard any proper arguments for? Can’t think why? 🙂

    @Chas No my old China I’m not having that old Cherry chucked in “We have to pay the going rate” Who’s going rate Chavski’s? Oily Citeh’s? Or are we talking SAF’s the Clinks rate? Because neither Romans ill gotten, Arab inheritance, nor the debtors prison should decide the going rate for our club. Our players are very, very well paid unless you want to compare them with those quoted above, they are the mad exception. SAF’s mob by running up debts are still left barely clinging on because of the madness that has come about in the prem. I would hate to see us go down that route.

  31. GoonerB says:

    Richie, I haven’t seen the debate on your point from yesterday, so I may have got the wrong end of what you and Micky were debating, but I would kind of agree with you and disagree with you in equal measure.

    I would agree that you don’t throw some young starlet on high wages that has shown good form for a short period of time as, yes you are right, they may flop after this point. However, there are players that you can look at and with reasoned judgement can say, this is no flash in the pan, this is a top player that will change games and be the difference between winning and not winning things and who will consistently perform. Those players have to command more money than a more average squad player in my mind. It’s just the way of the world.

    Good write up Chas. When I was watching the game I couldn’t decide if I was happy that we gritted it out against a good team away from home or whether I was still uneasy with how they forced us back to defend so much. The second half looked mostly like an all out Schalke attack to me while we got more or less every player behind the ball. I couldn’t help but think that we were playing like those sit deep defensive teams that Arsene doesn’t like, and showed little threat. I was undecided about whether we saw it out well or whether in the end we got lucky not to lose. Sorry to bring in some negativity to the majority of positive feelings that are circulating today. I am just still feeling very unsure about us at the moment. I feel we have lost some of our way of playing and have morphed into a different type of side with a different way of playing, that in European terms makes me feel we look more a mid-table team despite still fielding top international players. Maybe I am just being over-critical and maybe it is just the combination of recent games that have got under my skin. If this is the case can someone out there help me and send me some positive vibes. I just need a big hug and to be told that it will all be ok and that I am fretting over nothing.

  32. i don’t want to lose him either but i wouldn’t break the wage structure for him.
    i think the whole structure needs revising, so our best players are on wages comparable to the big 3, and our fringe players are on peanuts with proper incentives to do well.

  33. richie says:

    @Rasper Sorry but your argument is redundant if you can’t explain how? Given the examples I’ve given how does you way work? Just because you repeat the same mantra over and over doesn’t make it so.

  34. richie says:

    @J11:35 Who decides who our best players are?Is it the fans the media or the manager? Is Cazorla better than Arteta? Is Jack better than Santi? I’d love us to be rid of the dross which would free up more available money. It’s o.k. to say Messi wants to play for us so we’ve got to pay him £300K a week, as the best player in the world I guess he might be entitled. But I repeat my question who’s a better player Arteta (who does the dirty work) or Cazorla who can produce a spectacular?

  35. its down to the manager & board who decide the value of a player to a team.
    At the moment i’d have the pair on a par.

  36. i say the board meaning the guys who hand out the contract

  37. Red Arse says:

    Cheers, Chas, an excellent match review. If you keep this up you will become a fixture!! 🙂

  38. guy on TS right now who interviewed pod after the game, not a happy chappy

  39. he doesn’t like playing on the wing, or the defensive work…. surprise surprise

  40. TotalArsenal says:

    Hi Rasp 🙂

    Spot on: we are a business. But we are competing against clubs of folly, who do not operate as a business. A business cannot compete, especially long-term, with clubs of folly.

    Re wage parity. Although I don’t know the exact facts, there is no wage parity as such at Arsenal. Not everybody is paid exactly the same or almost the same. As far as I know salaries fluctuate between £10,000 – £80/90,000 a week.

    What Arsenal appear to do is to stick to remuneration/pay scales within a well-thought through and managed pay system. As any good business would do. Arsenal appeared to have offered Judas £130,000 a week – which indicates it can be flexible in order to keep a special player – but also that was not good enough.

    You are right in saying that it is far more important to recruit the best players we can afford – and that is exactly what Arsenal are trying to do, but it is not as easy as many of us want to believe. And many other club have a army of players who are overpaid and underused.

    Hi Richie 🙂

    I am with you. Arsenal will have to draw a line somewhere, where the oilers are always capable of drawing the line significantly above us. Trying to play along with them like the Mancs are doing is very dangerous.

  41. Red Arse says:

    Theo is on (allegedly) £75K a week. He wants (allegedly) £100K a week. Arsenal (allegedly) do not want to pay that.

    What next? Let’s say neither side will budge.

    The market place will decide.
    — Theo finds no other club will pay him more than£75K and will stay. — Another club thinks he is worth £100K and he will go.

    If Rasper ran a business and wanted to recruit a top technician and advertized the post at £50K per annum, he may find no one applies.

    Why?

    Because technicians of the level required have already got or can find jobs at £80K per annum.

    Market forces — nothing new!

  42. richie says:

    @GB11:32 No one would argue that a player I think we all believe is essential to Arsenal Arteta shouldn’t be paid more than a fringe player like Squilla. Where I have a problem is this idea being put forward that one player should be paid more for doing the same job. If “Dennis” forbid Arteta should suffer a major drop in form and Coquelin steps in and steps up are you telling me that Arteta should be paid more because he has seniority or the Coq should get more because he’s now playing better in Arteta’s position than Arteta was? Who makes that judgement?

  43. ManthanDavda says:

    @Red Arsene 12:03 Spot On mate!!! That is what I am trying to tell from many days people play for money atleast pay little more I am not telling to pay 200K or something but atleast little more…. Everybody wants money most important part of human lives…

  44. This guy the German Journalist on TS reckons that Huntelaaaaa will go to either Chelsea or Arsenal.
    It was funny because he’s been asked about likely destinations and he said “it would have to be a London club, that leaves Chelsea and Arsenal”.
    FOYS

  45. Red Arse says:

    So that will be Totnum then Jonathan! 🙂

  46. glic says:

    Thank you chas and Micky, It must take you hours to write that lot. I now feel guilty of watching the 2 minute bite-size on Arsenal Player, so I will watch the 12 minute highlights to take away the guilt ! hahaha
    I have watched their 2nd goal a few times now. I might not be the tactical technician in Totals class, but I was a pretty ( I would like to use handsome, but it doesn`t work in this text hahaha ) decent footballer in my day and I can say Verm was doing the right thing in coming in and covering. However, if I was Podolski, I would have busted a gut to cover Verm and pick up Farfan. Have a look , he is jogging back and has a glance at Farfan !.

  47. glic says:

    Oh dear , did that sound like a swipe at Pod, saying it was he`s fault ?…………………it was ! hahaha

  48. TotalArsenal says:

    Chas, thanks for a fantastic match report. The key moment of the game flashed back in my head again as a result of your accurate and passionate match reporting. Top stuff, cheers! 🙂

  49. richie says:

    @RA sorry that one doesn’t work for me either – We are not talking about market forces. We are talking about the exact opposite; we’re talking about distorting market forces. It’s almost insider trading. Before Abromovich came on the scene Manu’er were the biggest market force because they had massive support and a big ground capacity so they could do things Arsenal as a club couldn’t, like buy Rio for £35K. Moreover they could afford to put him on the sort of contract that meant other top European teams couldn’t turn his head with better wage offers.

    AW recognized this and went down the route of trying to put us on an almost equal footing with Man’er by building a new increased capacity stadium so that we’d have gate receipts almost the same as SAF’s mob. No one envisaged Manu’er running up such debts back then, they always had season overspends but their shirt sales and merchandising would always bring them back into line.

    The Russian arrival changed all that because the Chav’s aren’t open to market forces. In fact if they were they would be finished as a business, they lose year on year. RA with Moronho ho ho completely distorted the market, they not only bought up all the best players for themselves, they also bought players just so other teams couldn’t have them, and then loaned those players out to teams who were playing their biggest rivals. Now Oily Citeh are doing the same just think Ade Buy-me-big-money. The Abromovich-M-Citeh axis are not operating as businesses so there are no market forces involved.
    This distorts the market especially the wage market. I just think it’s absolute madness for us as a club to be sucked into trying to pay our players like Manu’er are, trying to keep up with the Jones’s.

  50. kelsey says:

    Richie

    i have read most of your posts on wage parity but I don’t think i have read anything from you as to how theoretically you would deal with what is clearly something you feel strongly about as do others. i am talking purely about Arsenal now.Do you think this is something new ? It has always gone on at Arsenal and i am sure most clubs. When GG was playing for us he was on a comfortable wage but wasn’t the highest earner, and I am pretty sure it has always existed in the modern game.

  51. Rasp says:

    Thanks Redders, I’m with you on this.

    Morning TA, Gazidis has acknowledged that we pay our 1st team squad members within a narrow wage band and that it is out of touch and needs to be revised.

    Richie, simply because I do not cite the wages of individual player does not mean my argument is meaningless. If I cited what I think a player is earning, I would be beseiged with people asking me how I know.

    This I know; we are overpaying Squillaci, Bendtner, Denilson, Chamakh and up until recently Almunia (and quite a few others no doubt). How do I know this? I know because we would sell them if we could but no other club will match their wages = we’re overpaying them = market forces.

  52. glic says:

    Rasp
    Excellent way of saying how you know, when you dont know ! 🙂

  53. Rasp says:

    Jonathan, I heard that interview on TS you mention.

    The idea that we have the Pod on one side not happy playing wide and Theo on the other is alarming. If Arsene wants wingers he should buy wingers. If Theo leaves, I hope his replacement is comfortable with playing wde right.

    I agree in theory with the idea that these guys are being paid handsomely and should take up any position the manager deems, but to get the most out of them we probably want to put square pegs in square holes etc

  54. Rasp says:

    Thanks glic 😛 there’s more evidence for what I don’t know than what the others don’t know 🙄

  55. glic says:

    I`m great in the sack. How do I know ?. The Inbred bearded ladeez of Cornwall, keep coming back for more, at a Pastie ago. Market forces. Gingsters need to increase production !.

  56. Rasp says:

    Agreed the billionaires have distorted the market, I am not really including them since they can pluck any player from any club except each other – but that does leave us and all the rest of the clubs in Europe. Its all about targetting our resources to fund excellence on the pitch.

  57. TotalArsenal says:

    Yes Rasp, he has indeed said that. Every pay structure needs reviewing regularly, and I guess that’s why the figure of £130k for van Judas is not far off the mark.

  58. VCC says:

    Rasp….Square pegs Round holes……Wenger makes a habit of this, cant understand his logic. It is clearly not working. Here we go again, stubborn Wenger, same old same old.

    If things don’t change, they’ll stay as they are 🙂

  59. Rasp says:

    I agree TA, BSR wasn’t ever going to accept £130k but I accept that it was the best offer we could make. I don’t think he’d have stayed if we offered him £200k a week. But we could attract a top young striker and sign him on a 5 year deal for £130k a week so long as none of the big spenders are bidding. They can’t buy every top talent out there, and they themselves are discovering that their wage policies are making it difficult to move players on. I think the way they subsidise other teams to secure a move needs investigating … Ade to spuds being an obvious case.

  60. Big Raddy says:

    There can be no winner in this argument. We have to reward young potential because there are many clubs hovering around our youth set-up.

    We cannot pay €150k a week. We cannot not pay it.

    We have no idea of AW’s pay structure, all we know is there is a top level (and we don’t even know what that is!) and a bottom level (the same).

    I don’t have an answer but think richie’s point about the difficulty of valuing a players worth within the team is well made. Without a water carrier the creator cannot create.

  61. ManthanDavda says:

    What I feel is we can buy zaha and one more winger if theo leaves play poldi and OG in center so we have Ox,Gerv,zaha and probably eisfiled.. We have a strong midfiled all we need it to buy a winger and a LB… We are good to go then… And Pay structure atleast player like arteta,poldi and all top players should get good wages not equivalent to chavs citehs but atleast what they deserved….

  62. ManthanDavda says:

    I feel Arsene knows better then us… But we should change structure time by time so tat we dont loose star… Chevs will perform well dis season next season they will fall again for sure… see citehs situation now.. Poor nasri he left emirates he won one trophy now he will never win again hahahahahahahahaha

  63. Red Arse says:

    richie, 🙂

    I see where you are coming from with your comment at 1:05 regarding market distortion.

    Naturally, we need to be careful here that we are comparing apples with apples.

    Market forces apply even at the financially rarefied level of Shitty, Chavs, Manure, Barca and Madrid etc.

    They all blow clubs like ours out of the water, causing the distortion you are referring to. But they do compete with each other within their ‘market force’ group and eventually when bargaining for a top player, one or more of them will blink when negotiations crystallize.

    This uncontrolled funding, supplied by wealthy men on a whim, ensures we are unable to compete with them, and is what has caused us so many problems with our best players taking their blood money.

    Below those clubs, there is another group, of whom only a very few like Arsenal are competing with each other based on ‘affordability’, and by definition they are competing for the ‘lesser’ players.

    I suspect we agree on all that.

    What I think others are saying, and I have no personal knowledge of this one way or the other, is that Arsene has paid players a ‘flat rate’ salary almost without reference to their true worth.

    The effect is that when we try to shift players who are no longer wanted, such as Squillaci, Bendtner and Park, the market forces say they are not worth their salaries – or their transfer fees, and we are stuck with them because no other club agrees with those values. Certainly the Shitties or Chavs of this world would not want to touch them with a barge pole.

    Something else I agree with you about is that when bidding for a player and agreeing a contract with the individual concerned, it is a bit of a lottery.
    We all hope the transfer fee was money well spent and the player is worth the salaries they are paid, but as with the individuals mentioned above this is not always the case.

    Hope this helps to explain that everyone is [sort of] right, richie. 🙂

  64. GoonerB says:

    Glic 1.26. I think I met one of your ex girlfriends last week. She sounds exactly like your description. Is it the one who does that trick with a 3 litre bottle of cider and a shetland pony.

  65. Rasp says:

    Hi Raddy, maybe its not just about valuing a players worth within a team. Maybe its also about his age, his sell-on value, his injury record, his marketability, his attraction to new supporters etc etc.

    Obviously everything has to factored into the equation. We seem to have (in the past) worried too much about keeping them ‘happy’ within a perfectly harmonised group and less about motivating them to do better by seeking to achieve higher rewards once they’ve proved their worth.

  66. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks chas and Micky Fawlty. Fine piece of writing. On the marks i would have given Mannone a 10. He looks like my cousin George so i have a soft spot for him.

    Just going back to the wage parity model. i do belive that many underestimate the transitional effects the move to the Grove has had. If we recognise that the Club had to hold sufficent funds to satisfy creditors and have lost out short term in the form of sponserhip income, then what about the parity model? Is this not a legacy of our move?

    It is my opinion that Arsenals “project youth” was a nessecity of its times. in line with such a policy Arsenal had to offer young players big money to get them, in a way it was the one area we were prepared to compete with the big boys, the procurment of young talent

    In addition to this, young players are more prone to the syndrome of “That mug earns more than me”, thus parity all of a sudden becomes more important.

    I aplaud the clubs parity model but the problem is we have now outgrown its need, yet its legacy remains.

    Pervesely, this is another reason i am very confident for our future. We have been constrained by the Grove move in so many ways that remaining competitive with the elite became nigh on impossible.

    Once underperforming players are eventuly gone, turnover increases, then it is my hope that the wage bill, over time, will be restuctured in a new and market driven way thats suits our need now, not the need of seven years ago.

    We shall see.

  67. Rasp says:

    Once again TMHT, I am in total agreement … what’s going on??? 🙄

  68. Red Arse says:

    Rasper and Glic, I am much taken by your discussion on how good one or the other of you is in the sack and how would you know.

    Well, Donald Rumsfeld got blasted for saying something that has been widely accepted by some, and ridiculed by many but may help you two sort things out. 🙂

    There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.

    Glic, you are better off not knowing, not knowing that you don’t know.

    But I will tell you anyway, ssshh, Terry has been gazumping you for months with that damned telescope!! And he calls himself your friend!! 🙂

  69. Rasp says:

    I know Redders …..

  70. Red Arse says:

    Stop it Terry! You are sounding sensible, and that won’t do!!! 🙂

  71. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Rasper, when i gave you that kiss i seceretly mind melded with you and now possess all your knowledge and i am now enjoying your insight. I also gave Cornwall a kiss, and now i know everything about ladies underwear. hahaha

  72. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Redders, you do know that some one earlier reffered to you as “Red Arsene” hahahaha

  73. Rasp says:

    Cunning stunt!

  74. Red Arse says:

    Rasper, 🙂

    I wish I did!!! 🙂 If the women I have known over the years are as glib with the “I love you!” as I have been ………………. sheesh — where’s that saying, “unknown unknowns and ……………. 😳

  75. Red Arse says:

    I did notice Terry and thought that is someone of conscionable classic taste.

    I might have to switch to ‘Red Arsene’ but the blog world may think I am taking him communist! 🙂

  76. TotalArsenal says:

    Rasp said: “But we could attract a top young striker and sign him on a 5 year deal for £130k a week so long as none of the big spenders are bidding.”

    Agreed in principle, but for a business that is a hell of a risk to take. What if he turn out to be the next Chamakh or Andy Carrol? I reckon Wenger is very wary of this and that makes it even harder to find the right target. The folly clubs don’t need to worry about that.

    TMHT 🙂

    Under-performing players who are eventually shifted out, are likely to be replaced by new underperformers: they are the residue of our competition process. Some can be shifted and some cannot. Wenger definitely makes mistakes in this area, but so does everybody else.

    Agreed on the necessity of project youth, though 🙂

  77. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Dont blame me TA, i was just spelling out Rasps thoughts. hahaha

    I know what you mean, every player is a gamble. Myself and Rasp (hahaha) were just trying to say that by offloading the remanents of the past it will make more funds available to help implement a new wage policy more structured to todays market.

  78. TotalArsenal says:

    I know Terrenco 🙂

    On another note, there is still hope for normally run football clubs to succeed. The fact that Dortmund and Ajax got the better over Madrid and Citeh over two games, is the best non-Arsenal related football news I have had in a while.

  79. Red Arse says:

    I was as sick as a dog this morning, but talking to you lot has bucked me up. Thank you! 🙂

  80. slimgingergooner says:

    To be successful in the market place, you have to be successful on the field. This is the exact reason why Wenger sees 4th above the domestic cups.

    Did we used to discuss player wages in 2004? No, because we were winning things. Players would’ve taken pay cuts to play for that team!

    Wages only become an issue when the team aren’t performing, and players can use it as an excuse to leave.

    Having said that, I think it’s fair to say we are not using our wage bill efficiently. Which is something Rasp has been saying for a while. We are paying wages to players who have performed for a number of years, that could be going on new signings or even better on our ‘star’ players.

    It needs reviewing.

  81. Everything will become more clear following FFP and our new commercial deals. We hope.

    Arsenal are still thankfully a big draw thanks to our brand name. We still stand for good football, excellence and class.
    But we do not stand alone anymore; our name will only serve for so long. Other teams are playing good football, as well as us if not better. They pay higher wages too and are successful.

    We need something to set us apart again, and for me that is a formation change that works. I’m tired of us trying to play like Barca and failing. We cannot attract the personnel that can execute the system, so what’s the point of persisting with something we cannot excel in?

    Either attract the required talent (new wage structure in 2014)
    Or
    Change system to play to the strength of the personnel.

    I firmly believe if Fergie had our team last Saturday and Wenger vice versa, Fergie would still have won.
    Imagine our current side with Fergies work ethic in the 3.2.3.1

    I say give it a whirl but I aint the manager.

    ……………………………………..Vito…………………………………………………
    Bac ………………….BFG……………………….TV……………………. Gibbs
    ……………………………..Art……………… LJW…………………………………..
    ………..Caz…………………………………………………………..Oxo…………… ……………………………………….Pod…………………………………………………………………………………OG……………………………………………………..

  82. TotalArsenal says:

    Hi Slim 🙂

    The football world has changed beyond recognition since 2004. Re success being the honey-trap to keep players, I would like to refer you Bor Dortmund. Money talks, dirty cash I want you, dirty cash I need you….. 🙂

  83. RockyLives says:

    Great write up Chas
    You didn’t miss anything, so I reckon you had a peek at all the AA in-game comments!

    Mannone is really starting to look the part and is currently a more reassuring presence than Szcz has been in his recent outings for club and country before injury.

    I like the Don’s kicking – and last night I noticed he was really shouting at the defenders, moving them around, taking charge.

    And he looks like Terry’s cousin 🙂

  84. RockyLives says:

    Good discussion about wages, the market etc.

    But I can’t muster up the mental effort to really try and figure it all out.

    I just feel safe in the hands of that nice Mr Gazidis and that lovely old Mr Hill-Wood.

  85. slimgingergooner says:

    Hi TA,

    Re Dortmund, they are a perfect example of what Wenger used to be great at before 2004 and hasn’t replicated since. He found a group of unknowns and made them into a fantastic side. As soon as Dortmund stop winning trophies, they will lose players to bigger teams ie Kagawa

  86. slimgingergooner says:

    Sorry Rocky,

    That was meant for you not TA 🙂

  87. slimgingergooner says:

    Sorry Rocky,

    I was right first time!!!! 😳

  88. GoonerB says:

    On the wage structure… I agree with Rasp. There you go the shortest GoonerB post ever.

  89. RockyLives says:

    Slim
    I found your point interesting, whomever it was meant for 🙂

    Dortmund are very impressive, but I believe the Bundesliga has rules which prevent clubs running at a defecit – so oilies like the Chavs or Citeh would not be allowed there.

    At least in the domestic market that gives any well run, well managed club a fighting chance.

  90. GoonerB says:

    Oh go on then I will elaborate. I actually agree with Richie on the point of not overpaying on a young unproven EPL player only to find they don’t cut it, but I agree with Rasp and Terry that the balance of how we use our wage allowance is distorted and that certain players can turn a very good side into a title winning side. These players are just worth more money. I agree with Terry that our model was for a certain period of time which is now past and we need to change to a model more in line with other clubs. That is not to say that we should go to their extreme level which I feel will come down anyway to some degree with FFP, although I don’t think it will be as dramatic as Gazidkis would have us think. If we are to reap the benefits of FFP then I feel we will have to meet it half way by changing the level of wages according to a players worth to the team. If we don’t then I think we will be talking about the same issues in another 5 years. Finally I agree that TMHT is very good in bed. I only met him once and all too briefly at the Tavern but sometimes you just know these things instantly by the way a man stands in a pub.

  91. Rasp says:

    TA @ 2:14, my inference from your comment is that it is too risky to shop at a slightly higher level in case it doesn’t work out.

    My answer is that is the job of the manager, not to worry about the finances but to work with what he is told is available and to identify the talent that is affordable and available. Our scouting network used to be the best but we have been left behind and some of our scouts have been poached by other clubs. Even our groundsmen and physios get poached 😦

    Offering £130k a week to a recognised talent is a risk, but one we have to take if we want to compete at the highest level. If you ask me for an example where such a risk has worked out recently I would have to cite that deeply flawed humanbeing but top striker Suarez. Please don’t anyone start deducing I’d like him at Arsenal or the fact that pool aren’t doing that well, Suarez is a top striker and without him they’d really be in trouble.

  92. TotalArsenal says:

    GoonerB, you just made Terry’s day 🙂

  93. Rasp says:

    Hi Rocky, Dortmund have an excellent manager in Jurgen Klopp, that could be something to do with their success.

  94. TotalArsenal says:

    Rasp, no it is not too risky but very risky, and it is hard to get it right. Your example of Liverpool says it all: they bought five or six players in the last twelve months or so and only one is working out for them. What a waste of money.

    I definitely would like Arsene to find a super-talented striker who would reach the levels of TH14 and others, but they are hard to find and it can easily go wrong. I rather see us develop players from within and then pay them a good salary once they reach top-level. Unfortunately, this is not working out at all for us any more.

    It just aint easy, as I am sure you will agree. I have no doubt that Arsene is on the look out for top-quality but as soon as he shows an interest, you know who, is starting to show an interest as well.

    Slim, Dortmund are doing a great job at recruiting the right players, but despite winning the league and the cup in recent season they also lost one to two quality players every season.

  95. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Just a fleeting visit.
    Chas..stunning quality.
    Rasp…whose idea was it lifting something from a Schalke site? Creative thinking at its worst.
    Speed read (sped read?) through comments, and wages appear to be topic of the day. For me, I have no idea what anyone is on, but if true that AA is on top whack as someone said yesterday, then that seems wrong.
    The answer? No idea.
    Rocky, The Germans have a rule on debt at their clubs eh. Its hardly surprising their economy is so strong. Wise people.
    Off again.

  96. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Oh, and the pics in the post are all of the highest quality.
    Bye for now.

  97. Rasp says:

    Micky, I found your translation form the Schalke site highly entertaining and well worth your time 🙂 I am slightly surprised it didn’t lead to more comments, maybe because we’re all still obsessed with players wages.

  98. RockyLives says:

    Micky
    Sorry – I should have mentioned that the Germglish translation really made me laugh this morning.

    I read it in the voice of Lieutenant Gruber from Allo Allo 🙂

  99. evonne says:

    Rocky – you read it aloud? To whom?

  100. evonne says:

    chas – I saw the picture and didn’t read the post, thought it might be too raunchy for me

  101. VCC says:

    If reports are true that
    Podolski is on £110k pw
    Rosicky is on £75k pw
    Arshavin is on £80k pw

    Hardly surprising Theo wants £100k pw.

  102. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    hahahaha, GoonerB, thats what i said to GLiC when he asked me advice on how to seduce women “Just watch the way i handle this Brandy glass”. hahahaha

  103. RockyLives says:

    To you evonne 🙂
    You weren’t listening – you had your earphones in (probably listening to some Polish techno-rap).

  104. glic says:

    GoonerB, that is not the way Terry normally stands in the pub, the reason he was standing like so, was because that old git VCC drove over his foot with his mobility scooter !.

  105. evonne says:

    Admit it, you read it to yourself aloud Rocky 🙂 Did you laugh a lot?
    Last time I was in Poland mother and I went to see a movie called ‘You are God’; poor old girl though it was a religious film, but it was about a Polish rapper on drugs, not quite the same thing

    Another Scottish club facing financial ruit. Why did I think that Scotts are mean and love to keep the money under the mattress?

  106. slimgingergooner says:

    TA,

    That Reus kid looks an excellent replacement for Kagawa. Our player replacement after 2004 is what has seen us slip off the pace, mostly due to moving grounds, obviously.

    I don’t think Wenger is loath to paying players high wages. I always get the impression he sees footballers like items of clothing. Why spend £60 on an Adidas jumper when he can get an equally good one down the road for £30, without Adidas* written on it!

    *other sports outlets are available

  107. TotalArsenal says:

    Slim, you are right re Reus. The internal German market is a strong one at the moment: far better choice available than in the PL.

    Not sure re your replacement theory, but you could have a point. In a club like ours, replacing what was carefully developed over years, is not easy. Best is obviously to keep hold of the likes of Song, Cesc and van Judas in the first place, but that did not appear to be possible.

    Have you been to a match yet, Slim?

  108. glic says:

    e va va vonne.
    I think you answered your own question. They are tight and if they were to get the money out from under the mattress and pay their bills, the baliffs would leave them alone !.

  109. evonne says:

    glic 🙂 how is the little Gunner doing?

  110. slimgingergooner says:

    1st December TA, Swansea home.

    Will be heading down with the Yorkshire Gunners and the new wife! 🙂 can’t wait.

    Just regarding what I was saying about us replacing players, Wenger never got a full nucleus of a squad together at the same time, it was always one in one out and he couldn’t quite get the mix right.

    We have seen massive changes in recent years and I’m not sure he’s found the right players just yet, but a couple of tweaks here and there and you never know. A great squad is always just around the corner if the correct decisions are made.

  111. glic says:

    Thank you e va va vonne, touch wood he`s fine, he`s at home now and yesterday he was weighing in at 7lb 1oz !. 🙂

  112. RockyLives says:

    Redders
    Saw your note earlier about being a bit under the weather. Hope you’re feeling better soon.

    GLiC
    Great news about the little Gliclet…

  113. glic says:

    New wife slim !
    Hope you enjoyed your day of sentencing………sorry……wedding vowels !. hahaha

  114. dandan says:

    Fine article Chas thanks a lot. As far as the match is concerned, we would probably have won had we played in football boots and not ice skates. Whether the Para Olympics had motivated the boys I know not, but it seemed to me they spent more time on their backsides than any of the wheelchair athletes and a slip was the direct cause of the first goal, row z beckoned instead Santi sat down and 5 seconds later the ball was in the net.

    Interesting that you guys should be discussing money as The Daily Mails Hack Neil Ashton published this, this morning. GIE be careful when reading this, slinging the Ipad out the train window would prove expensive.

    Cash a goner if you’re a Gooner as Arsenal continue to short-change their fans
    By NEIL ASHTON
    PUBLISHED: 00:01, 7 November 2012 | UPDATED: 00:17, 7 November 2012
    Comments (15)
    Share

    Finish in the top four and everyone at Arsenal is paid out.
    Arsene Wenger can pick up his £7m salary and chief executive Ivan Gazidis will earn £1.336m basic and a £675,000 bonus.
    Arsenal’s staff share a wage bill of £143m, up £19m from the previous year and the fourth biggest in the Barclays Premier League.
    Only the supporters are short-changed.
    They pay the highest season ticket prices in the country, but this really is boom time if you happen to be an employee of Arsenal Football Club.
    Nice big houses, nice cars, private schools for the kids and no questions asked. Just finish fourth.
    There is no pressure to win a trophy, no demands made of the manager from the people at the top who remain under his charismatic spell.
    The executives will have the fans believe differently, talking up the sense of achievement when they qualify for the Champions League and speaking of how they are ‘proud to be a Gooner’.
    The fans are the givers, parting with fistfuls of £50 notes each year to listen to the same bluster from the board. They are inching closer to success, so they say.
    At the AGM last month they were hanging their hat on UEFA’s Financial Fair Play.
    What next will they come up with? Perhaps they could borrow Patek Philippe’s line and tell them it is all being ‘saved for the next generation’.
    Spare them. Arsenal are not a two-bob enterprise. They rake in money from every orifice, exploiting every commercial avenue available to a club that are ranked sixth in Europe according to the latest UEFA co-efficients.
    Finish fourth in the Premier League, or preferably third to avoid Champions League qualification, and the money pours in.
    Lest we forget the stadium repayments, which are ‘£15m a year’, according to Wenger in an interview in February this year and the Champions League more than covers the lot.

    Star names: Arsenal have plenty of stars on big wages in their ranks
    Last year, Arsenal earned just under £23m from the competition before they were eliminated by Milan 4-3 on aggregate in the second round.
    The pay day was made up of £14.8m from the market pool, £3.1m participation bonus, £2.6m match bonuses and £2.4m for reaching the last 16.
    This year, provided they squeeze through the group after Tuesday night’s 2-2 draw with Schalke in Gelsenkirchen, they will earn even more.
    This is not a club struggling for cash or clout when it comes to European football.
    After 15 successive years in the Champions League, they have the pedigree, the history, the stadium and the location to attract the world’s top players.
    Don’t buy the argument that it is a miracle that Arsenal qualify for the Champions League on the final day of the season. It isn’t a miracle at all.
    In order of revenue, Arsenal are the fifth biggest club in the Champions League according to Deloitte’s latest money league: Real Madrid (£383m), Barcelona (£360m), Manchester United (£293m), Bayern Munich (£321.4m), Arsenal (£200m), Chelsea (£199m), Milan (£188m) and Inter (£168.9m).
    This year they will slip below Chelsea after they became European champions following their remarkable run to the Allianz-Arena under Roberto Di Matteo.

    Falling behind: Arsenal trail Premier League leaders Manchester United by nine points after former Gunner Robin van Persie helped his new side to a 2-1 victory
    Year after year the club try to convince their supporters that they are punching above their weight.
    They have brainwashed fans into believing that witnessing Champions League football at the same time as selling their best players is a truly remarkable feat. It is not.
    Arsenal have been paying players big bucks for years, with an admirable wages-to-revenue ratio of around 61 per cent.
    Don’t buy the idea that this club doesn’t pay big salaries to the star players. It does.
    Back in 2006, Thierry Henry was given a £5m bonus to stay and signed a new five-year contract worth £130,000 a week.
    Money comes to Arsenal. They don’t have to look very hard to find it with a spectacular 60,000 seater stadium on a prime piece of land, a high-visibility monument for every passenger coming in or out of Kings Cross railway station.

    Long memories: Arsenal last tasted success with the FA Cup win in 2005
    This is Arsenal remember, winners of three Premier League titles, four FA Cups and so close to winning the Champions League against Barcelona in 2006 under Wenger.
    They have the history, the Chapman years and the great George Graham team that won the league at Anfield when Michael Thomas raced through on goal.
    Commercially it is not a hard sell. Every high-profile, money-making enterprise wants to be associated with a top football team in London.
    Nike (since 2004) and Emirates (2006) have long-term commitments to the club, signing huge commercial partnership programmes with a team regarded by UEFA as the sixth best team in Europe.
    The TV companies are still in thrall with Arsenal, swelling the club’s sizeable budget by another £85m.
    For the prestige of being attached to one of European football’s giants, the corporate sponsors foot the bill.
    Sadly it is the supporters who pay the price.

    More…

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2228729/Arsenal-short-changing-fans–Neil-Ashton.html#ixzz2BYfRGMH8
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  115. glic says:

    Thanks Rocky, I`ve got VCC`s “Away Boyzs” CD ready to brainwash him through the next 4/5 years of baby sitting !.

  116. Big Raddy says:

    I stopped reading the Daily Mail in my early teens. It is a scurrilous rag and always has been.

    It comes as no surprise that they print such bias shite. They hate Arsenal because it is full of foreigners and even worse employs some black people.

    What astonishes me is that Martin Samuels, a brilliant journalist, writes for them

  117. dandan says:

    I agree with you BR, I got to that article via Newsnow.

  118. Big Raddy says:

    Knew you would DD 🙂

  119. RockyLives says:

    dandan
    It seems to me that the Daily Mail bloke read Henry Winter’s Daily Telegraph piece from the day before and ripped it off (with some extra DM bile added into the mix).

    They need to keep justifying the agenda they have been peddling about Arsenal.

    Although I thought Winter’s piece had some uncomfortable home truths in it.

  120. slimgingergooner says:

    Hi Glic,

    Wouldn’t have changed my ‘sentencing’ for the world! Ask me in 10 years though and it might be a different story 😆

  121. kelsey says:

    A number of years ago my wife got a call from Femail the section inside The Daily Mail wanting to do a feature about us as a family.Anyway this guy turned up took loads of photos and spent hours asking us all different questions. When the article came out it had absolutely nothing to do with the original questions asked and was libelous. I wrote to the editor as did friends of ours (without us knowing) and threatened to take them to court. Within a week they printed an apology and we got 20K .Absolutely true.

  122. evonne says:

    7lb and 1oz! wow, he is growing fast, good lad!

    We the fans are apparently planning a protest scheduled for the Swansea game. Does anybody know what are we supposed to protest about?

  123. GoonerB says:

    Dandan, I am very unhappy that you have just taken my title for writing the longest posts.

  124. If that was fighting spirit, it would seem the paper bag would come back to beat us. We did well to score the first two goals, but with no cohesive defence we were lucky to escape with a draw. Arsene Wenger knows how to hold on to money. He doesn’t know a thing about teaching the team how to hold a lead no matter how great.
    He is an economist in football manager’s disguise. His tactics (if he has any) Are tried and tired. Predictable is the word that describes us best. To openly state that relying on finishing in a position for an ECL. place is better than winning the FA. Cup shows that He has no idea or doesn’t care what fans think. It also (disgustingly) gives BSR. the higher ground. What is the use of a transfer chest full of dosh if it will never be used to buy the players to make us competitive?
    I will never cease to love Arsenal, but If waiting on FFP is the reason why we can’t compete now, we are living on a prayer that the money hungry whores infesting football will have to change their ways. I don’t think they will.

  125. glic says:

    e va va vonne.
    I think it is disgusting that there is going to be a protest about slim coming all the way down from Yorkshire for his first ever game. Give him a break, It`s not an invasion of gingers, he`s just got sentenced……oops again………..married !. hahaha

  126. chas says:

    Tony Cummings,
    So you don’t think there was more fight shown by the players last night than they showed at Old Cowshed?

  127. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Evening all.
    I do find the noises apparently coming from Podolski very worrying, and I don’t blame him one bit.
    Where and to who was it that he gave that interview?

  128. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Chas…Just the man. What time do you get to the Tavern?

  129. chas says:

    It varies, Micky.
    Usually by 1pm though.

  130. GoonerB says:

    Micky. What was it that Podolski was supposedly saying. I don’t know anything about this.

  131. glic says:

    Anyone know how many game(s) Jack is banned for ?.

  132. chas says:

    What noises?

  133. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GoonerB,
    I was just about to go back through the comments and find it.
    In short, about being miserable stuck out on the wing and having perform defensive duties.
    I cannot disagree. We bought a prolific scorer. He should play central.
    I will now zoom back and hunt for the comment

  134. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Got it.
    Jonathan at 11:54 and 11:55
    Interviewed after the game.

  135. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Now I think about it, I sent Peaches and Rasp a post on this very subject a few weeks ago.
    Might see if I saved a copy and update the bugger.

  136. LB says:

    Thanks Chas, that was a very enjoyable read.

  137. MickyDidIt89 says:

    1pm. Message received.

  138. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Yeah Cheers LB 🙂

  139. glic says:

    Thanks kelsey.

    The same position he played for Germany in the Euro`s, where imo he played shite, he`s as happy as Arshavin stuck out on the left then !. Does anyone know what actual position he played in for Koln ?.

  140. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Glic,
    Scored masses of goals. Now have a stab in the dark.
    Clue, it wasn’t left wing with massive defensive duties 🙂

  141. slimgingergooner says:

    Glic

    Don’t get the bin liners out on my behalf!

    😆

  142. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Oh do hurry up Glic.
    Last clue. At the end we attack, there stands three bits of wood with a net hanging off the back. It was near that assemblage.

  143. glic says:

    How do you know this Micky, have you been speaking to a Koln fan in your broken but effective Sprakken ze Deutsch !. hahaha

  144. glic says:

    I know, I know, Micky, same position as Big Raddy…………..and I dont mean some sleazy little back street brothel in Copenhagen !.

  145. GoonerB says:

    I think you and I have agreed in the past Micky that we need to try and get 2 central strikers working off each other in some games. Giroud has looked isolated too often in our current system and Podolski has looked slightly average and less of an attacking threat recently and certainly seems to be spending more time too deep and wide than in the dangerous areas. I think he is a player who could play behind another striker or even lead the line. He is a clinical finisher with a very good goal-scoring record and we need to play him more through the middle. The problem is I keep thinking we need to buy a striker in Jan but we have not effectively tested Walcott or podolski through the middle enough. The answer may be right there already and we could have a rotating trio of strikers in these 3 that could combine together. If Walcott and Podolski start to play more through the middle then maybe we just need another tricky classy attacking wide player. I personally would go for Ben-Arfa who I really like and is also EPL adapted. The problem is I think we will get to jan not having tested Theo or Podolski through the middle and not really know what type of player we need to be buying.

  146. jnyc says:

    On salaries, we must be able to retain our star talents. Impossible to disagree with that. If the structure doesnt allow it, then it must change. everyone knows what players can get elsewhere. On signings, We can find an occasional bargain, but those are MORE hit or miss. The more expensive players are less likely to fail. We cant avoid the top talents, and let our best go at the same time.

  147. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GoonerB
    As usual, I 100% agree with you.
    Must go now.
    Night all.

  148. evonne says:

    due to my ageI could not understand what Song is doing on the pitch during Barca v Celtic game 🙂

    Did Barca really buy him?

  149. chas says:

    I can’t find any evidence of an interview with Podolski after the game last night apart from this at 0:36 in.

  150. slimgingergooner says:

    Still fancy Bayern for a treble this year.

    They’ve bought really well and are looking outstanding at the moment.

  151. TotalArsenal says:

    Slim, Swansea at home should be a great game of football. You ought to do a post on your personal experiences! 🙂

    Agreed on a great squad around the corner stance. It could suddenly click into gear.

  152. evonne says:

    have a look at ManU game, interesting colour scheme

  153. slimgingergooner says:

    TA,

    Not sure 8 hours of coach travel will make for a great blog but will see what I can put together!!!

    🙂

  154. Braga modelled their shirts on Arsenal evonne

  155. glic says:

    8 hours of coach travel !, too many horse feeding stop off`s, oh and dont stop off at Sherwood Forrest !.

  156. slimgingergooner says:

    It pains me to say that Chelsea have bought 2 absolute gems in Oscar and Hazard. They make it look so easy

  157. glic says:

    Them two players us fans wanted . 😦

  158. Big Raddy says:

    Shaktar. Fine team ruined by a poor GK. Shame.

    Enjoying the Celtic game. If Mr Wenger is watching expect us to put in a bid for Wanyama.

  159. glic says:

    The good news is, in two years time, when FFP kicks in harder and we have our better sponsorship deals, if any of those sort of players do come on to the market, we will be in just as good position to buy them as anyone else!.

    PS
    Dont complain to me in two years time if that isn`t the case, blame TMHT ! hahaha

  160. evonne says:

    GM – same kit, R$P must be wondering why are the fans not booing him

  161. The manc game was so boring

  162. dandan says:

    Manchester City player by player wages. Very interesting. #MoneyMadness
    Below is a list of Manchester City’s player wages as of September 2012. The figure shown is a weekly wage before tax.

    Carlos Tevez – £180,000
    Yaya Toure – £180,000
    David Sliva – £160,000
    Samir Nasri – £140,000
    Edin Dzeko – £120,000
    Vincent Kompany – £120,000
    Kolo Toure – £120,000
    Sergio Aguero – £120,000
    Javi Garcia – £110,000
    Maicon – £110,000
    Mario Balotelli – £100,000
    Joleon Lescott – £94,000
    Gael Clichy – £90,000
    James Milner – £85,000
    Gareth Barry – £80,000
    Joe Hart – £80,000
    Matija Nastasic – £75,000
    Pablo Zabaleta – £70,000
    Aleksandar Kolarov – £65,000
    Micah Richards – £60,000
    Jack Rodwell – £55,000
    Scott Sinclair – £55,000
    Costel Pantilimon – £20,000
    John Guidetti – £10,000

    This is sourced from the latest version of the Sports Interactive football management simulation game, Football Manager. While the figures are not official, they’re not far out.

  163. Come on barca. This is one of the few times I want them to win

  164. dandan says:

    GM Why?

  165. evonne says:

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! barca losing 2 nil to mighty Celtic!!!!

  166. Big Raddy says:

    DD. Interesting but faction.

    Wooaahh Celtic 2 up and an 18 y.o scored the second. Great stuff

  167. Because I’m Engliish and they hate us

  168. evonne says:

    who hates you GM? The Irish?

  169. chas says:

    Aguerro 120k a week?
    He wouldn’t get out of bed for that. 🙂

  170. no the celtic fans evonne

  171. celtic are a scottish team

  172. evonne says:

    GM – traditionally they are Irish catholics; look at Lennon’s jacket collar – Irish flag

  173. dandan says:

    Lennon is Irish GM

  174. oh no the fucking chavs have scored

  175. chas says:

    sickening

  176. dandan says:

    Lot of absentees at work in Scotland tomorrow. Lol

  177. I’m not bothered who the manager is. It’s the fans that hate us

  178. Big Raddy says:

    And BSR …. one man team.

  179. mancs have scored too. slags

  180. evonne says:

    what’s sickening darling?

    I am delighted for Celtic, bloody marvellous perfomance and top, top goalie

  181. dandan says:

    Yep well done the Hoops

  182. I’m not watching. did the dutch wanker score?

  183. Big Raddy says:

    GM. Not so. half Celtic/half Arsenal scarves were very popular at Highbury

    Bloody Chelsea’s CL luck continues. Unbelievable

  184. Were they popular in Glasgow too?

  185. Green scarves were popular at manu and liverpool . It’s a catholic thing. I don’t know anything about the split scarves at Highbury.

  186. Neamman says:

    Celtic fans hate us because we are British. They boo the national anthem, they boo on the minutes silence on Rememberance day. they booed when the queen mother died and there was a minutes silense. In the stadium all you see are Irish flags. They did bloody well, you have to give them credit.. but well done goonermicheal, I also wanted Barca to thrash them. A recent documntary on the Old Firm showed how Celtic fans attacked Englsih families in Glasgow purely for being English.

  187. Thank you Neamman

  188. Sooner they get their independence the better

  189. Neamman says:

    Raddy
    They did a survey many years back in Highbury on who are your favourite second team. Rangers and Celtic were about even at that time. When Arsenal played Rangers some years back there were split Arsenal/Rangers scarves around. I tried to get one but couldnt.

  190. Every result was bad tonight.

  191. VCC says:

    GM…..we should have a vote to see if we still want them.

  192. slimgingergooner says:

    Really enjoyed the Chelsea game and thought Moses’ header was brilliant.

    Man U deserved their win too, defo penalty.

    Oh, did I mention I had bet on them both winning!!! 😆

  193. you put money on the mancs and chavs? You should be ashamed of yourself

    VCC. They’ll never give us one.

  194. VCC says:

    GM……no they won’t, for fear they might just get voted out.

  195. slimgingergooner says:

    GM,

    I do feel ashamed, but the money makes it better again!!!!

  196. glic says:

    Rangers helped us out when we fell on hard times, so I have a soft spot for them. As Neamman said, Celtic are an Irish team playing in Scotland.
    I also dont get all this wanting Eire winning in Qualifying games ( unless your Irish ) as they couldn`t give a toss about England. I`d rather France win with a TH14 ” hand assist ” !. Same goes for Scotland and Wales, they never cheer on England, so why on Earth would I want them to win ?.

  197. I’m with you glic

  198. RockyLives says:

    I like Celtic (but I am Irish 🙂 )

    I remember when there was a lot of fraternity between Arse and Hoops fans around the time we had Charlie Nicholas.

    Fans of both teams used to wear the half- and- half scarves.

  199. richie says:

    All clubs end up with a residual; there is no way around it. A player is signed on a 4 year contract only to be deemed surplus after a year. Often that isn’t even a mistake or bad judgement it’s just the way teams develop and evolve. Managers are constantly castigated for having insufficient squad depth, so they can’t win. This situation is far more frequent at Arsenal because of our youth policy. Although it recently happened spectacularly to Moronho at Real. When Jose arrived there he found Madrid’s defence in a shambolic state and he immediately set about rectifying the problem in his usual way by throwing money around like water, and raiding his former clubs for their players. He bought Carvalho from the Chav’s and put him on a big fat contract because he was desparate to shore things up with someone he knew was proven. Then by the time JM had his new back 4 plus 4 understudy’s in place Carvalho was asked to move on. No thanks said the 34 year old Ricardo I intend to see out my contract. His one time mate Moronho said in that case you’ll never play for Madrid again. To which RC reportedly said “Who cares as long as RM pay me”!

    Possibly we’ll have a perfect case of this coming up now with Bacary Sagna, whose contract is running out. There are many who’ll say offer him a new contract now, and get it done ASAP. Now our corporal has come on in leaps and bounds under Arsene’s tutelage, so let’s just continue to fantasize a little shall we? Let’s imagine his meteoric rise continues unabated for a further year and he makes the RB position his own. Let’s roll things on even further and say Gooner Jenkinson has got a great understudy coming through from the academy in the shape of the Spanish kid Hector Bellerini. Now both Jenkinson and Bellerini are on low wage contracts when compared to Sagna who as a senior player of some standing is on big money, only the senior player is now surplus to requirements with 3 years of a 4 year contract to run. Now I know I’m just having fun with this scenario but I’m sure you’ll all see from my little example how easy it is for us to end up with players no longer playing in our 1st team on a big money contract.

  200. richie says:

    DD how can you quote a game as not official but not far wrong? Thats crazy!

  201. Gooner In Exile says:

    Morning all, great report Chas, I didn’t see the game but I don’t need to now, there was ago of pace, felt like I was watching the match.

    The goals against were again both down to individual mistakes, which is disappointing.

  202. Gooner In Exile says:

    Richie interestingly the level of research that goes into Football Manager means that some clubs use it aaa starting point for scouting trips, and some smaller clubs are in talks with FM developers to buy their underlying stats/ratings database.

  203. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All.

    The Celtic stats show that anti-football works. Park the Bus managers will be delighted and we can expect much of the same at grounds around the land, where less talented teams will play 10 men within the final 20 yards.

    Last nights game was identical to the CL Final.

    I blame Neville Chamberlain, Helen of Troy and Jose Mourinho

  204. Big Raddy says:

    GIE. Is that really true or urban myth?

    I have never played or even seen Football MAnager (computer games passed me by). Are they good and which would you recommend?

  205. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning all,
    Arsenal always had strong Celtic links due to our strong Irish connection in the 70’s, and as Glic pointed out, historically strong Rangers links because they helped us out. Then, some would wear one or the other to show allegience associated to either because of sectarian dislike of the other.
    Glad the whole thing has gone.

  206. Gooner In Exile says:

    Raddy the developer was being interviewed the other day and explained that his team of scouts/analysts is bigger than most small clubs, who may have 1 or 2 self employed scouts.

    Think I’d take wages info with a pinch of salt, but as far as players abilities go its a good marker.

    Whilst writing this I realised that the only thing a scout can see is what a player is like on the pitch at one point in time, can’t assess whether a player is a good trainer or whether they are adaptable to new systems.

  207. kelsey says:

    Morning all,

    Micky, Yes it is addictive 🙂

  208. chas says:

    Does anyone know where this quote comes from? It’s been regurgitated so many times by lazy media hacks, that it seems impossible to find its original source.

    “I’d rather play centrally up front,” said Podolski. “On the left I have to do a lot of defensive work, constantly running up and down. I am not a classical winger.”

    I thought this quote from the Telegraph article on the same subject was interesting.

    Wenger was questioned by the German media after Tuesday’s 2-2 with Schalke about Podolski’s position and suggested that he saw Walcott and Podolski as “strikers” in a front three.

  209. Morning all.

    Watching the CL matches last night was a thoroughly disheartening experience when the Old Toilet mancs recovered from 1 nil down to win 3-1.

    What has this got to do with us ? Well the instigator of the Red Manc revival was Van Judas and it feels now that every goal he scores is like a dagger through every Gooners hearts.

    He could/should be scoring such vital goals for us rather than deliverin’ the goods for one of our direct competitors for the top 4 spots and our most hated, by me at least, rivals.

    There is going to be a protest at the Swansea match by the BSM, now to be joined by Red Action, where surely one of the main accusations that can be levelled against the club is exactly what “footballing reasons” dictated the sale of Van Judas to those front bottoms who play in Salford ?

    Could we bring the £24m on when we were losing to Norwich or the Chavs ? Or when we were being outplayed by Schalke at my last visit to Ashburton Grove ?

    It’s all very easy to say ex players shoudln’t slag off the club but TA06 is only joining the long list of people with a real affection for the club to point out the blindingly obvious that you can’t progress(or even maintain your position) by repeatedly selling your best players AND not replacing them with equivalent quality.

    OK rant over.

  210. chas says:

    Morning, chary.
    Are you on the bench on Saturday?

  211. Rasp says:

    Morning all, anyone who lived through 1971 should watch this video for the evocative images … spot the double winning team in there …

  212. Rasp says:

    1971 was a hell of a year, some good and a lot of bad things going on, and we think we are in difficult times now…..

  213. Morning Chas, no my next game will be Swansea. Will have 3 others with me that day.

  214. Rasp says:

    Morning all

    New Post ………….

  215. Rasp says:

    Morning chas, chary and Micky 😛

    Micky I here I am going to have the pleasure of your company on Saturday – hope that’s right anyway.

    We need to get the Tavern widget up …. can all in intending to make the pilfrimage to the THOB declare themselves please.

  216. VCC says:

    Rasp. After watching that clip you have me all teary eyed and emotional. On a personal note it’s during the best years of my life. I remember most of the clips especially my favourite Gooner Frank McLintock , with his big grin on the open top bus, I was there at Wemberleyyyyyyyyyyy wemberleyyyyyyyyy(he would sort them out now, that’s for sure, none of this shirt swapping at half time .

    Most of my immediate family still alive
    Free milk in schools
    Fantastic job
    Beautiful girlfriend

    Only minus, I think Ted Heath and his shower were in power.

    Appy Dayz.

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