Who Should Be The Captain Of Arsenal, If And When van P€r$i€ Leaves?

When Henry was made captain, everyone agreed.  He was our best player, at the time and arguably ever. When Fabregas was made captain, almost everyone agreed. He was our best player at the time. When van Persie was made captain, people didn’t really know what to think, and personally, I still don’t know what to think. I personally believe a midfielder should be captain, due to them being the link between the attack and defense.

My favourite captain apart from Tony Adams, who was our most successful captain ever, was Vieira. He controlled the game, he then defended and attacked. And he wasn’t quiet like Fabregas and now Van Persie are. He would scream at players he thought were lacking concentration and weren’t in the game. He was a leader, even though he seems to have abandoned the team that made him for €ity, just for the pay cheque, some of my respect for him has gone I’m very very sorry to say.

The major contender for the captaincy is Vermaelen. The centre back that joined from Ajax, where he was captain, in 2009. Ever since joining Arsenal, he has caused a fresh argument for Premier League fans to have, who is the best centre back in the league? Every Arsenal fan surely says Thomas, because he is. Vidic is over rated, end off, John Terry is good, ignoring personal matters, he’s good, but getting on a bit now, Kompany, ok he lead his team to the league title, but millions of pounds were invested in that team. In my opinion, he shouldn’t even be in the argument.

Vermaelen acts like a leader. He has been sent off once, against West Ham, which wasn’t a red card! When he was injured during the 2010 / 2011, he made two appearances, the last two games of the season, a defeat to Aston Villa, and a draw against Fulham. Against Fulham, he played better than Vidic and Terry had the whole season, I remember him blocking every attacker, and clearing it off the line with ease. We struggled the whole season, as he was our only solid centre back at the time. We would have still struggled with two solid centre backs, he would have improved them who ever they are, Vidic, Terry or Pique.

I believe Vermaelen should be captian, vice captain already, so is Wenger’s prime candidate for the captaincy, and to be honest he deserves it, but would he need it, or could the whole squad benefit from someone else having the captaincy?

Mikel Arteta. Some fans had questions over his signing on deadline day in 2011. Well, what can we say almost a year later? One of Wengers best signings of the decade, up there with Fabregas and Nasri. He controlled the games for us, something Nasri didn’t, and couldn’t do probably. When he joined Arsenal, he said he wasn’t bought to replace Fabregas, but I think he has to be honest, and we couldn’t have bought anyone who would have played better for us. After ten eleven games for us, he was an integrated part of Wenger’s Arsenal set up. He is going to be a major part of the team for next seasons title challenge.

I believe Arteta, along with his developed partnership with Song that won us almost seventy percent of our games (Arteta didn’t play a few games due to injury), link the attack and defence, and can lead a team that may have three new starters and youth in, who need leadership. Arteta has been in the Premier League for seven years, as long as any other player in our squad. This means he has experience, more than Arteta. He has so much experience and quality, he was voted Sky Sports midfielder of the year in 2007, beating Ronaldo, Gerard, Fabregas, Lampard etc. We was voted Everton’s player of the year 2006 and 2007, and Everton’s Players Player of the year 2006, as well as North West player of the year 2007. I know this means nothing, but he knows seven languages as well.

I heard a story about Arteta, about when he first joined Arsenal. He noticed that when the players were relaxing and had their own time after training, how the squad would split up into separate groups, something he believes lowers the teams chemistry on the pitch, and addressed Van Persie about the problem. If anything was done about it I do not know, but this shows a sign of a leader. Worrying about the teams togetherness off the pitch, not just on the pitch.

I believe he is a very strong contender to be captain, Wenger surely must discuss it with him, he will defiantly make him at least vice captain. The simple fact is, Vermaelen leads the squad naturally, he does it now, even if he isn’t captain, but Arteta would feel he could say something to lead the team, although can’t now too much due to him only being at Arsenal for just over eleven months, and not being the captain.

There are other contenders for the captaincy, Song for example. Song has been in the team for seven years, and is also a integrated part of the Arsenal set up. He controls the game like Arteta, he provides amazing assists, and is rarely tackled on the ball. He can also play at centre back when asked, and regularly goes and defends when the other team are attacking. He then starts the attack. This is a vital part of Wenger’s set up, and he may deserve the captaincy in some peoples eyes. There are emerging rumours of Song moving to Barcelona, hopefully there is no truth in it, and if there is truth, that he would be loyal to the team that have given him everything. Something Van P€r$i€ hasn’t done.

Other candidates for the captaincy include Sagna, Koscielny, I’ve heard someone say it should be the player bought to replace the current captain, Giroud! Sagna firstly, has been at Arsenal since 2007, and has been our best defender apart from Vermaelen for a long time. Since his arrival, he immediately became our first choice right back. When he has been injured we have struggled, although that could be due to us not having a solid second choice right back, usually a centre back has to fill in, and in the game against Sunderland, as he broke his leg, Koscielny. He is a great player, one of the best right backs in the league. He doesn’t score yet although he does provide some great assists. He doesn’t seem to be very vocal on the pitch, but seems to concentrate a lot so can’t worry about speaking to other people. This is the only reason I personally wouldn’t make him captain, although he may deserve it.

Koscielny joined Arsenal in 2010 in July, only a few days after the window opened. He started poorly, getting sent off against Liverpool. His season began to have highs and lows, scoring against Bolton, but the lowest of lows was against Birmingham. We had barely got through against Ipswich, having to play Fabregas against them, embarrassing. Leading up to the game, every one said, watch Zigic, his height will cause the smaller defenders trouble. He scores. Van Persie pulls us back into it, but in the 89th minute, a mix up with Koscielny and Szczesny meant we lost the game and our trophy drought continued.

But then last season changed for the young French defender. The whole team were at fault for the poor start of the season, but when the team began to gel, Koscielny and Vermaelen’s partnership really became apparent, and Koscielny changed from a vulnerable young defender, to a strong solid player. He had to play on the left on the right for some games due to all of our full backs being injured at the same. He dealt with his well, although Mertesacker left a whole in the centre of the defence, for example Norwich.

The defence lined up ‘Koscielny Vermaelen Mertesacker Santos’. When Norwich scored it was due to Mertesackers mistake, but when Koscielny saw what was going on he moved across into the centre to help out the centre backs, while protecting the right flank. Captains actions surly? Once again, the only reason I wouldn’t make him captain is because he doesn’t seem to shout orders out in a game like Vermaelen. Team have more than one vice captain, he could be one along with who ever isn’t captain, Arteta or Vermaelen.

I would really make Arteta the captain, due to Vermaelen leading from the back anyway. He is a solid player and even though he hasn’t been at Arsenal for a year, he deserves it. He is the perfect player to have it, as he will be able to tell the players how they can improve their performances on and off the field. I hope that either Vermaelen or Arteta is captain, they both deserve it and Wenger has defiantly got to consider both of these players. Hopefully the next captain won’t leave, and lead us to a trophy. Van Persie is, and I suppose soon it will be wasn’t, a good captain anyway. A striker should never be captain, especially a very un-flexible one like Van Persie. I think Giroud will be better than him, so I personally say good riddance to him. We don’t need the money from his transfer, we should keep him sitting on the bench next year and someone can have him for free, a 30 year old, injury prone and will have no resale value and will want £200,000 a week. He will never be bigger than Arsenal.

Written by Miles

311 Responses to Who Should Be The Captain Of Arsenal, If And When van P€r$i€ Leaves?

  1. Amir Azizi says:

    I believe Vermaelen should be make as a captain as he is loud on the pitch whether RVP stays or not… even if RVP stays, and he remains as a captain that wouldn’t be good for the team as he has been wanting to leave arsenal. you need someone loyal to be a captain not someone who even have the intention to join one of our biggest rival.

  2. Iceman says:

    The armband at Arsenal seems to be a curse. Give it to Pat Rice.

  3. THE F says:

    Pat Rice is gone already

    As for captain, I’d prefer Vermaelen or Arteta for now, then after a few years it should be Jack Wilshere.

  4. Celestine obioma says:

    To me i prefare given that captaincy to thomas varmelean.

  5. Wonderman says:

    Great post
    Firstly on the comment about Vieira going for the money I think you are wide of the mark. In my opinion Vieira was shocked to have been sold to Juventus when he was as I believe he felt he was going to finish his career at arsenal . I also believe that he was disappointed not to be offered a coaching role at the gunners after his playing career finished. Man City stepped in and the rest is history…..

    On the captaincy…I think we need to choose carefully this time as we have recently been guilty of using it to keep players, my vote would be for Vermy

  6. Kabir says:

    If u say arteta, i’ll say fair enough….. But song i think he deserves it, he has been with the taem 4sow long and will do it jx lyk former legend viera. And also if he’s been given captain@arsenal that will stp other club 4rm lukin hix way. E.g;barca

  7. craigy says:

    personally i would make vermalen captain, i think he’d do a great job, and he’s fully committed to the cause, although i do agree with a midfielder being an ideal position, but we dont have the most vocal of midfielder’s do we, apart from arteta who would make a good captain,

  8. meaner says:

    Rubbish. Koscielny is a better defender than Verm.

  9. Gunner-Mac says:

    Hi all, No way should song be made captain. The captain must communicate with team mates. Alex Song doesn’t communicate during a game. My vote would be Arteta for skipper.

  10. Timmy says:

    Good write up Miles

    I read one of the players interview once (Not really sure which of them but most likely Jenkinson, or Oxlade) saying RVP’s wife schedules parties with the wives of the players on regular basis. I think this is inline with your comment about him(…He noticed that when the players were relaxing and had their own time after training, how the squad would split up into separate groups, something he believes lowers the teams chemistry on the pitch, and addressed Van Persie about the problem…).

    I’m of the opinion that the captaincy should belong to the player that is not influenced by juvenile delinquency, in other words mature, calm and at the same time firm in making decisions and also will be consistent in game time. Certain players fit this categories, but some of them show more leadership tendencies than others. Also key is the experience of once, or currently being a captain of a team. Contenders are Vermalean, Arteta, Podolski, Ramsey. Podolski doesn’t stand a chance because it’s his first season, Ramsey looks to be seriously looking always and maybe this is actually a reflection of his personalty, and one that must have stood him in good stead of getting the Arm band for Wales. However, considering the other two, years of experience stands them shoulders ahead of Ramsey,

    Between Vermalean and Arteta, the obvious choice will be Vermalean. Years of experience is huge, and he still have many fooballing years ahead, unlike Arteta who is on the twilight oh his professional career.

    I think Vermalean will be the better choice. In him arsenal will have a captain for about 5-7years without looking back.

  11. Liltwist says:

    U re forgetin sm1 rocisky

  12. Miles says:

    Wonderman,

    There was rumours of him actually being offered a coaching position at Arsenal and he turned it down. I believe the rumours really were true and he stayed with City for the money. And he saw out his contract at Inter after being sold to them by Juventus and went to City on a free. I think he knew that he would never be able to end his carer at Arsenal, especially not ending it as the captain. I would like to see Arteta captain but think it would look bad on Vermaelen as he is the vice captain, the player which takes over the captain either on a temporary basis or permeant basis. I just want a midfielder as the captain, but I think Vermaelen leads the squad anyway.

    Van Persie is not a leader. Vermaelen already is, and Arteta could be, just doesn’t want to be tell people what to do as he feels it is not his place, modest. He would command the team from the centre of the field, he is so box to box he could tell them how to player, Rvp couldn’t and doesn’t. I do not want him as captain anymore, even if he stays.

    Miles

  13. Miles says:

    Timmy,

    Do you mean Arteta’s wife organises parties or Rvp? And Arteta has three years more experience in the Premier League than Arteta. He will play for another five or six years for Arsenal. If not, Vermaelen will take over the captains armband from Arteta.

    Arteta really does get my vote, I really like him. Ramsey is bad, he has had such a poor few seasons, I don’t want him in the first team anymore I am sorry to say. I really did like him, thought he was such a potential, but after the leg break, it all went wrong for him. I do feel sorry for him though.

    Miles

  14. Timmy says:

    Miles,
    I mean RVP’s wife organizes parties for the team. And may be RVP only took the initiative when Arteta discussed his observations with him. (That’s just trying to link your comments on Arteta and the interview I read about the parties RVP’s wife organizes with other wives)
    Yes, you are also right about Arteta having 3years premiership experience and probably 1 of the 3yrs is as a captain, but Vermalean also has a number of years of experience as a captain of the Ajax team before coming to Arsenal.
    All the same I feel either of the Vermalean or Arteta will make good captain.

  15. Raz says:

    @Wonderman – I think you are more wrong, miles is correct. I’m not meaning to shoot you down or anything but check history. Viera wanted to leave and it was much like the whole Cesc saga, 2 seasons back to back he was being linked with clubs and it was long and boring but heartbreaking when it happened but he was in ridiculous form and everyone wanted him. It was him who chose to go, I don’t know how you consider any other version of events the the correct one…seriously!

    Viera was offered a post at Arsenal for player development/coaching when he chose to retire from playing. Remember it was only a couple years ago that city signed him from Inter, he played a tiny bit and then took up their offer upon retiring, not Arsenals. These are the thruths, understand that money talks, and City probably have more to offer him, it hurts!!

  16. LB says:

    There are many similarities between RvP and Vieira:

    Both in very late twenties and coming to the end of their contracts with Arsenal. Both know/knew that they only have/had one more opportunity to secure what would or will be their last contract. Both were/are offered short contracts forcing them to look else where. Vieira took the five year deal with Juve and RvP would bite their hands off for the same arrangement. People now look back and say that the club rightly or wrongly wanted rid of Vieira — well what the hell do people think is going on with the club and Van Persie right now?
    Wake up and smell the coffee, have you heard of an offer made to RvP to want him to stay, no you haven’t. As many people repeatedly say he is an injury prone 29 year old with no resale value, do you really think Arsenal have made him an offer to stay he cannot refuse?

  17. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thank you Miles. The captaincy should go to Theo Wallcot. i see leadership qualities there. He is determined, unfazed by criticism, inteligent, and according to my sources loves his mum. Dont be surprised to see this become a reality in the next year or two.

  18. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Transplant,
    If there’s something you’d like to share with us, then feel free. Its just that your Theo for captain suggestion makes me think something may have broken down 🙂

  19. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Good point LB,
    At the very most, I suspect he would be offered one year extra.

  20. Victor says:

    I think arteta will be a good captain than all contenders. RVP can go to any where with his greed. Gunner for Life

  21. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Sorry Miles, I haven’t commented on our new post.
    Tough question. Firstly, I have to be in the minority here and say that if Brave stays, I’d leave him as Captain.
    If he’s a gonna, then its tough. Verm appears the most natural choice, although quite possibly not even a definate starter, which really only leaves Arteta. Mmm, still thinking.

  22. goonersteve says:

    considering both Kos and Mertesacker are better defenders that TV (TV makes alot of kamikaze errors) then it doesn’t make sense for TV to be captain.

    Can’t really think of an ‘outstanding’ candidate to be honest.
    Maybe Arteta?

  23. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Got it.
    Whoever has the deepest roar.

  24. Candid gunner says:

    Transplant,
    don’t you think Squilaci or Park will be better? They’re both big players, one’s a double europa winner, another is a national team leader! Lmfao…

  25. Anthony says:

    Verm is the man.simple u don gv de armband 2 him n his loyalty of extendng his contract will b nothng.remember kompany stole the belgian captainship from him and we cant do that to hìm again.so lets trust him with the armband.

  26. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Sir Micky, i will be delighted to share with you. I do honestly believe that Theo has strong captaincy qualities. The way the guy handled the World Cup fiasco and some jeering from the Grove crowd is testament to his character. Combine this with his inteligence, self determination and obvious love for his mum makes him a future captain. It maybe a tad early but i reckon he will become captain one day.

  27. Uthman says:

    I think captaincy band should be given to a player that does not av any link with any club, such as arteta, vermaleen, koscielny. Although song may worth it, i support d motion of not given it to him, bcos it wil be as if we want to use that captaincy band to tie him down. If u remember this happend when when fabregas was in our team.

  28. glic says:

    Fine post Miles
    I think we are lucky to have a few good choices for Captain and I think all will do a better job than Cesc and TH14, but I`m with Micky and would keep it with Mr VP when he`s told he`s going nowhere ( plus London is a better City to travel to than Manchester when I entertain Mrs VP).

    e va va vonne
    I like TalkSport, but there`s one person who does my head in, so while you have problems with your “d”, can you please type, “Jason Cundy is a Cund ” !, go on please ! . It will give me something to laugh about whilst I`m having my yearly Prostate blood test. 🙂

  29. kgooner says:

    Great post that poses a very critical question. Now that I think back, RVp was not an extraordinary captain last season, mostly due to his frontline duties. Our problems were majorly in retreating back. A midfielder or defender would suit a captaincy/VC. Arteta would fit one of this positions and the other to a veteran for team cohesiveness.(Verm/Kosc).

    RvP stays, he should be stripped of captaincy. Your closing sentiments
    ” I think Giroud will be better than him, so I personally say good riddance to him. We don’t need the money from his transfer, we should keep him sitting on the bench next year and someone can have him for free, a 30 year old, injury prone and will have no resale value and will want £200,000 a week. He will never be bigger than Arsenal.”
    reflect the bitter remarks fans have been spewing over the RvP wave. Can’t we get over him? We all seem to agree that the season is in for a turn w/o him. Lets move on and let him decide. It comes off as woes of a partner on shorter end of the stick. It’s beyond our control.

    I like this post because it highlights an aspect of the team that’s crucial for any winning team. Cohesiveness under a leader with a get rich or die trying attitude (younger readers will get this analogy) something i think we lack. Looking forward to Saturday kick off.

  30. glic says:

    Stretch
    Watching George Michael on the Olympic closing ceremony, it come to my attention that he must have had a Transplant ( I saw him live at Home Park, Plymouth and the spot lights were shining off his head ! ). can you confirm this on the Greek grapevine ?

  31. Wonderman says:

    Hi Myles, ‘rumours’ exactly that , there were also rumours that Tony Adams was/ wasn’t offered a coaching role. You chose to believe the rumours I don’t , but respect your opinion and I think we agree on the captaincy debate 🙂

    @Raz hi, you offer your opinions as if they are fact! Do you or have you ever worked for arsenal or any other football club for that matter. What needs to be understood is that the media are used by everyone in the game to their own advantage ( I personally know a couple of agents) Managers to move players on, agents to gain new contracts, clubs to bump fees up etc.

    Your Vieira opinions seem originated from a series of tabloid pieces. In my opinion Man City took advantage of the fact that he was available as a player ( something that arsenal wasnt interested in and rightly so) and followed that by recognising what he could bring off the pitch. We do not have an equivalent at the club at the club at the mo, but Henry looks like he is being lined up

    @ LB spot on matey

  32. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Cornwall, cant be sure but after thorough examanation of Michaels hair line i suspect he uses derm match concealer. This is a wonderful product for those who want to sport short hair but require more fullness and body. This tends to fit with Michaels predisposition to short hair and the hair line does look suspiciosly thick for a man of his age.

    I tend to go with nanogen fibres, which stick to the exsisting transplant creating an illusion of thickness and voulme. hahaha

  33. afc53 says:

    RVP can go for me 1 good season and this is how he treats us do on mate nobody bigger than our club!

    TV for captain for me with Arteta as vice captain Wilshire/Kos will be captain in a couple of years for certain for now on TV gets my vote and as for goonersteves comment on Mertesacker being a better defender sorry pal I must be watching the wrong games he has a turning circle as big as the titanic and look where that got us!

    That sniper that took out Mertesacker saved our season!!!

  34. afc53 says:

    I cant help but feel though we are going into this season light on defenders especially as in my opinion we have a real problem at LB we need someone like Baines so Gibbs can learn his trade.

    God knows what Santos teaches him!

  35. Gooner In Exile says:

    Good piece Miles…for me it’s Arteta, and the only reason I say this is QPR away last year and Vermys insistence on bombing up the pitch to get in on the goals and leaving us bare at the back. Now this seems a bit petty an off day for TV maybe, but Captains can’t have off days and of they feel they need to do something to influence the game or get a goal do you really want that player to be your Centre Back.

    Koscielny was brilliant against Barca at home in his first season as well as being solid in many other games,, the moment against Brum has clouded a lot of fans judgement of his first season. And it went with the view that Wenger couldn’t spot a Centre Back if he came and smacked him in the face.

  36. Big Raddy says:

    afc. We disagree on this one. IMO Mertesacker is the best defender at the club and the fact that TV will not be an automatic first choice means he cannot be Cpt.

    For the same reason it cannot be Rosicky, Ramsey or AA (all national captains)

    If RvP stays, he should lose the armband. However, he did a great job last year and for the first season in many we played as a team and not as a group of individuals.

    I would make Arteta Captain.

  37. Wonderman says:

    Hi Afc53, the only way Gibbs or any other young player will learn/improve is to play. Surely the onus has to be on those around him, his nearest centre back/midfielder/winger to guide/ help him through games.

    Santos is not your conventional LB, but he tackles like a Cobra and has been selected by consecutive national coaches.The great thing about both him and Gibbs is that they can both play as a winger

  38. chas says:

    Good post, Miles.

    I’d go for Arteta again.
    Though I think Terry could be on to something.
    Young Mr. Walnutt even predicted himself as a future captain, thus.
    http://twitpic.com/ajpjd5/full

  39. chas says:

    Micky,
    I bet Theo has the loudest and deepest roar.

  40. Gooner In Exile says:

    Welcome back Wonderman….in fine form I see and ready for the new season 🙂

  41. To me song deserve to be our nxt captain, coz he has been so long four the club and in all the players that we are talking about he is nw the best and he assist morethan all of them.

  42. Big Raddy says:

    Mudaseer. I think Song is too quiet to be the Captain. Fine player but not a leader.

  43. Gooner In Exile says:

    I think Santos is seriously underrated and no surprise I agree with Wonderman about his tackling technique, he also plays with a smile, and is an entertaining player to watch, as long as he does it in the right areas.

    The point about Gibbs playing is so true, Baines is considered good but he had 5 seasons at Wigan and 5 at Everton to get to that level playing week in week out. Us fans need a few homegrowns to come through to keep connecting with the players, why not Gibbs?

  44. For me Miles(good exploration of the possbilities in your post there) Vermaelen is far too ill disciplinied as a defender to be a good example of captaincy material; I plump for Arteta.

    Composed, responsible and a definite starter whenever he is fit.

  45. Rasp says:

    Super post Miles. Since TV is currently vice captain he’d probably be a bit put out not to be made captain …. but I do think Arteta is the best candidate for the reasons already given by others.

    There will surely be more rotation of the CB’s. I agree Mertesacker is hugely underrated simply because he does his job without any panic or fuss. Therefore, TV is not guaranteed to start whereas Arteta’s name would be first on my teamsheet every time.

  46. 123 says:

    Arteta would be a good choice.
    On a side note, why is it that no news about Walcott’s contract have surfaced? That is worrying.

  47. Wonderman says:

    Hi GIE , thanks, I am rearing to go, very excited about the new season. Whilst I took a break from contributing , I’ve still been reading some excellent posts debates on the site !

    @BR I’ve been lambasted countless times in debates with gooners and non gooners about Mertesaker. I am a massive fan of the guy if only because he is different to all the others in his size and lack of murderous speed….. This is his strength imo as because he is not quick, his positioning is exceptional along with his distribution . People talk about ‘ him turning like the titanic ‘ but I don’t remember him being turned inside out too many times last season in what was his first season in the prem. Plus do we really think the German national setup don’t know what they’re doing?

  48. Reddawn says:

    Does anybody know if Casola has been given an official team number? I noticed he had on an number 30 shirt on Sunday or were my eyes deceiving me?

  49. Reddawn says:

    Sorry I ment Cazorla.

  50. 26may1989 says:

    Captain:

    Not van Persie even if he stays, and he shouldn’t have a problem with that. Wenger will see it differently, I’m sure, and indulge RvP if he were to stay. I’m a traditionalist on the positions captains should occupy, and don’t like them to come from anywhere other than central defence or central midfield. But fair play to van Persie, he showed some real leadership qualities last season. Shame it didn’t extend to this summer.

    Not Song even if he stays – not a strong communicator and not disciplined in his game. As just one example, I can’t express how pissed off with him I was when he self-indulgently trod on Joey Barton in the game at Newcastle last season, when we already had the thinnest group of available players for the next game. Which game was next? Man U at OT, remember what happened there??

    Vermaelen? Would be good, he’s a real leader and fighter. And for me, would always be picked when fit, alongside Koscielny. Mertesacker is an excellent defender (what he lacks in pace and mobility, he more than makes up for in anticipation and positional sense), but I’d still have him just behind TV and LK.

    Arteta? Probably a shade better an option than TV – he’s calm, intelligent, experienced and not egotistical. But great as he was last season, is he going to be an automatic first choice? Probably, but, depending on how we line up for each game, it’s not nailed on, given that he could be competing for 2 or 3 spots with Song, Wilshere, Diaby, Sahin and Cazorla, as well as Arshavin, Ramsey, Rosicky and Coquelin. In a three, I’d definitely have him there, but with a central two, it may not be so clear.

    But still, Arteta would be my preference.

  51. evonne says:

    From BBC News, nothing shocking really, just a few bare facts:

    ARSENAL

    2011-2012 season

    Premier League: 3rd

    FA Cup: Fifth round

    Carling Cup: Quarter-finals

    Champions League: Last 16

    Players in: Santi Cazorla (Malaga) £15m*, Olivier Giroud (Montpellier) £12m*, Lukas Podolski (Cologne) £11m*.

    Players out: Carlos Vela (Real Sociedad) Undisclosed, Manuel Almunia (Watford) Free, Tom Cruise (Torquay) Free, Gavin Hoyte (Dagenham & Redbridge) Free, Jeffrey Monakana (Preston) Free, Rhys Murphy (Telstar) Free, Benik Afobe (Bolton) Loan, Joel Campbell (Real Betis) Loan, Denilson (Sao Paulo) Loan, Ryo Miyaichi (Wigan) Loan, Pedro Botelho (Atletico Paranaense) Undisclosed.

    * Reported cost of player. Officially undisclosed fee.

    Summer so far:

    •Midfielder Jack Wilshere undergoes minor knee surgery after missing the entire 2011-12 season with an ankle injury. He is later ruled out until October.
    •Assistant manager Pat Rice retires after 48 years with the club and is replaced by Steve Bould.
    •Captain Robin van Persie announces that he will not sign a new deal and the Gunners reject offers from Manchester United, Manchester City and Juventus.
    •The club’s second largest shareholder Alisher Usmanov criticises the running of the club following the Van Persie announcement.
    •Midfielder Mikel Arteta opens talks on a new deal and defender Laurent Koscielny signs a new long-term contract.
    •Midfielder Emmanuel Frimpong is fined £6,000 by the Football Association following a Twitter post directed towards a Spurs fan.
    Key fixtures:

    •A three-game spell in January could show whether Arsenal can challenge for the title. They face Manchester City at home, Chelsea away and Liverpool at home in consecutive games.
    •North London derbies against Tottenham are on Saturday, 17 November (h) and Sunday, 3 March (a).
    Full Arsenal fixture list

    BBC Sport’s Ian Hughes: “Harsh lessons appear to have been learned at Arsenal.

    “Last year, failure to replace Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri contributed to their season falling apart before it had even started. Once again they could lose their best talent – reigning double player of the year Robin van Persie may join rivals Manchester United – but this time they have already brought in three internationals in forwards Lukas Podolski and Olivier Giroud and midfielder Santi Cazorla.

    “And the defensive frailties that saw them concede 49 league goals last term are also being addressed, with ex-Gunners centre-back Steve Bould tasked with making them meaner.

    “Add to that the expected return to fitness of Jack Wilshere, injured all last season, and there may be justified reason for optimism at Arsenal that last season’s third-place finish in the league can be bettered – and that a seven-year trophy drought can be ended.”

  52. 26may1989 says:

    What a prick Roberto Mancini is. On signing Rodwell he says “Rodwell is a good player. He is young, and now for the first time he is at a club that plays to win, so it will be different for him.” Moyes achieved far more in getting Everton to 7th place than Mancini ever has at City, he should show respect to someone who’s got a far more challenging job than he has and has proved himself year in, year out.

  53. JM says:

    After RvP,

    Arteta – Captain
    Vermaelen – 1st Vice Captain
    Sagna – 2nd Vice Captain

    Reason: The Arsenal style of playing in games.
    Possession football, transition & fluidity between defence attack means the key is in our engine room (midfield). Among all available 1st team midfielders, Arteta is the best (strong concentration level, excellent passer=90+% & holding onto the ball, experience playing in EPL, good communicator etc)

  54. JM says:

    Off-topic update (15/08/2012):

    Wellington Silva has completed a loan move to Spanish second-tier outfit SD Ponferradina.(for 1 season).

    Also, Kevin Mirallas (rumoured to be linked with us) is expected on Merseyside within the next 24 hours to have a medical and complete the switch to with Everton for £6m.

  55. TT says:

    Thanks for a great post, Miles. I think RvP wasn’t comfortable with being captain at the beginning of last season. He looked awkward on camera, and some of his actions seemed studied rather than natural. However, being one of the most senior players on the squad—8 yrs with the club (I think from the current team only Djourou has been with the club longer)—and having such a big influence on the standing of the team, he just grew into the role.

    The replacement candidates all are lacking in either/both of these qualities RvP had/has. Arteta has a big positive influence on the team’s performance—and he would be my choice—but he’s not been with Arsenal long. Vermaelen is beginning his fourth campaign with Arsenal, but he was out one year. Thus, effectively this is only his third year, which is only one more year than Arteta! Apparently expectation of Vermaelen were high after the first year, but some people have questioned his quality in his second full year last year.

    No one else really qualify at the moment I think.

  56. glic says:

    Fabrice Muamba has officially retired from football.
    Best wishes for a healthy and happy future for you and your family.

  57. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Almost nobody has mentioned Koscielny as a captaincy candidate, Our best defender, first choice centre-back, a cool calm presence on the pitch, experienced, on a new long term contract and respected by his team mates and supporters. No contest!

    Whether van Per€ie stays or not he should be stripped of the armband, he doesn’t deserve the honour of wearing it.

  58. Norfolk Gooner says:

    glic,

    Add my best wishes to yours.

  59. football1 says:

    To me it has to be TV, Arteta is a good vice captain. Most importantly is that we do seem to have experience and possible leaders all over the pitch which we were crying out for just a couple of seasons ago.

    My opinion of the Vieira thing is that he did want to leave us and it went on for 2-3 yrs before we let him go. The mistake Arsenal made is not having him back on a free when Mancity took him instead. Whether it was due to his age or because AW didnt want him stepping on Cescs toes only Arsene knows but failing to offer him that contract is imo why he moved and stayed at city.

    Unfortunately loyalty works both ways and Arsene and the Arsenal board have been guilty of not rewarding loyalty to the older players a number of times.

  60. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Vieira is not a coach at £ity, he is an “ambasador” whatever that means. Not sure Arsenal need one of those.

  61. football1 says:

    Agree with you 26m about Mancini, he is a prick but he is the weak link at city and him being manager is probably the only chance the rest of the league has this year of competing with them tbh.

  62. kelsey says:

    The armband shouldn’t be a gesture or” thanks for your years with us” and quite frankly I don’t see one stand out candidate.

    Ask me again in two years and though this may surprise some I would give it to Szczesny.. No one is more vocal than him, and many a great team have their keeper as captain.

  63. MickyDidIt89 says:

    At last, I have a conspiracy theory. How’s this?
    Just in case we are flogging Brave to Utd, why not at least stall until after their first game away to Everton on monday. Maybe the difference and give us a three point lead should Everton win.

  64. barumgooner says:

    Micky, I’m just hoping he’s our answer to Silvestre.

  65. glic says:

    My stance with ” The Hooded One” is the official line, I cant see anywhere where he says he wants to leave this season, only that he wont sign a new contract next season. No conspiracy for me, he stays , he plays, Title is won, good riddance !.

  66. barumgooner says:

    Worst case for RvP would be staying, his chocolatey legs returning and then come the summer finding himself all un-loved with nowhere to go.

  67. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Barum
    Silvestre. Ha ha

  68. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Glic,
    Thing is, while he doesn’t say it, he probably guesses Arsenal won’t allow him to go for nothing next year. As LB says, who knows what AFC have offered. Of course I want him to stay. Best scorer in the league and whatnot.

  69. Rasp says:

    RvP is going to be sold, make no mistake about it. Most likely to manu for something in the region of £20m. Manu have to do something to appease their fans and they have set their stall on making this ‘big’ signing. It’s no problem, he can go.

  70. keyamo ovie charles says:

    U don’t hav 2 tink abt it vermaleen is the right captain 4 us

  71. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. I cannot agree. There is no reason apart from financial to sell RvP. It strengthens them and weakens us. Furthermore, should we reach the CL Quarters it would give us the fee MU are offering. However, in the highly unlikely event of us not getting CL next season due to a lack of goals … etc etc

    Ermm not very understandable — need a drink!

  72. Rasp says:

    Hi Raddy, the main reason I’m so sure is simply the ‘sound financial’ way the club is run. Forget RvP as a player, just think of him who as a dwindling asset worth £20m now and zilch in a year’s time – it’s a no brainer.

  73. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp/Raddy,
    I’m with bits of you both. I think the board will want to cash in now, but I’m sure they were hoping there would be an acceptable offer from anyone other than Utd, Spurs or Chelsea. Preferably abroad.

  74. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I would also think that if Utd have a limited budget, their midfield could use some bolstering more than the attack.

  75. Agree with you on that Micky, maybe Fergie has a plan to keep Rooney in the middle. Did you get post from me today?

  76. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Peaches,
    Yes. Thank you very much. Just means I can land at Holloway Road and zip into the box office before the rush. Kebab?

  77. Rasp says:

    Hi Micky, I doubt RvP wants to go to Juve with all the problems on the horizon there. I believe his family want to stay in England and manu are the only team showing interest – don’t forget that the player has a say in where he will go.

  78. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp,
    Something I never understood about that is Kelsey told me Lauren was informed he had been flogged to Pompey, and that was that.

  79. I’m up for a kebab if you are. I’ve had a nightmare with my Season Ticket, they only sent it to the wrong address!!!! I know I’ve moved a lot recently but they sent to somewhere I hadn’t even lived!!!!!!!!!!! I have to collect it from the ground so I was going to do that first. What’s your eta?

    Rasp – why are you still at work?

  80. MickyDidIt89 says:

    “If” I’m up for a kebab! “If” ??!?!
    My tummy rumbles uncontrolably at one on the dot.

  81. It’s a date then, meet you at 1 🙂

  82. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Watch, read and learn lads! That’s how to secure the hottest date in town 🙂

  83. chas says:

  84. chas says:

    smokingly hot. 🙂

  85. glic says:

    That settles it then chas,after saying that, if he goes to Manscum, he will be the biggest Jason Cundy of all time !

  86. Gooner In Exile says:

    So does Robin have a better chance of winning a title with ManUre than at Arsenal?

  87. If the perception is that manure have a better chance of winning a trophy than us then I suppose he does …….

  88. glic says:

    GIE
    Maybe, but if he stays at the club he adores lovingly, he will have an even better chance . The Jason Cundy !.

  89. chas says:

    It would be so funny if we finished above them in all competitions.

  90. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    Utd were one point away. If they add the best striker in the league, it could be argued Yes.
    Of course, we Gunners do not agree at all 🙂

  91. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Chas,
    If Utd added Brave and we sold no-one else, then I really do believe we would catch them

  92. MickyDidIt89 says:

    The big difference will be the adding of a top class playmaker in Cazorla

  93. Big Raddy says:

    Every season we sell to our rivals. Look what happened when we sold half our squad to MC. If we do the same with MU then it will prove RvP right – we have no ambition.

  94. MickyDidIt89 says:

    By the way, what do we call Santi, Cazorla or Cathorla? Confusing, as we called Henry, Onree, whereas we visit Paris or Rome, not Paree or Roma?

  95. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Raddy,
    For that reason, I’m pretending really hard that we will not flog our best player to Utd. Yikes.

  96. glic says:

    Well said Raddy, I expect nothing other than him to be playing this Saturday for The Arsenal.

  97. 123 says:

    Well, looks like RVP is leaving to freaking united.
    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/terms-agreed-for-van-persie-transfer
    Sigh.

  98. glic says:

    Confirmed then, he is the biggest Jason Cundy ever !.

  99. Big Raddy says:

    Where is the wonderful Red Arse? Healthy I hope

  100. Big Raddy says:

    There is nothing to say except Bollocks

  101. chas says:

    His full name has gonthaleth at the end. Saying the whole thing makes you feel like Toyah Wilcox.

    [ˈsantiaɣo kaˈθorla ɣonˈθaleθ]

  102. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Peaches,
    Is your Mum reading as I have something to say very loudly 😦

  103. chas says:

    Bobby’s comments about massive fan outrage are about to come true.
    If the money isn’t spent immediately, the proverbial is about to hit the fan.

  104. 123 says:

    Why the hell would arsenal sell to freaking man utd, one of our oldest and fiercest rivals? Talk about taking one step forward and two steps back.. At the very least the board has to spend the funds received from the transfer before the window closes, or else they’ll be dealing with lots of unhappy fans and will also be proving RVP right about the lack of ambition by the board.

  105. dandan says:

    Evening Gentlemen, So Robin is off. panic not, no doubt we have got plenty of dosh for him and we will replace him. No player is bigger than the Arse, if he had not got us into the CL would we have been able to entice players.I think not

  106. 123 says:

    Its about freaking time the club take a stand and stop selling our best players to direct rivals no matter what, or this will not stop happening and we will always be viewed as a club to be bullied in the transfer market.

  107. glic says:

    Will it be too harsh if I go next door and slap my Mother-in-Law, as I feel like I`m about to explode !. 👿

  108. chas says:

    For Brave Sir Robin and Arsenal Football Club.

    Seems like everybody’s got a price,
    I wonder how they sleep at night.
    When the sale comes first,
    And the truth comes second,
    Just stop, for a minute and
    Smile

  109. MickyDidIt89 says:

    dandan,
    Do you really believe we will be spending that money, because I don’t. This is book balancing I fear.

  110. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Van Persie will regret this. Now now, but later in life. His soul will diminish and his heart shrink……i am not a vindivtive man but i hope his testicles shrink to.

  111. 123 says:

    At the very least use some of the funds from the transfer to bolster the squad before this window closes..

  112. evonne says:

    NewsNow reporting that it’s a tone teal, RvP solt

  113. dandan says:

    Dont think so Mickey it is common sense, disgruntled player, wants a pay day, cut your losses take the money and move on

  114. VCC says:

    Too late GLiC, subject to a medical he is off to the scum the dirty Jason Cundy.

  115. glic says:

    chas, thats a Jesse J spud song, mind you he is the most convincing transvestite i`ve ever seen !
    I`m afraid I agree with you Micky !.

  116. chas says:

    Bastart

  117. chas says:

    Haha, reminds me of Evonne telling the shop assistant in the Arsenal store to turn off Adele as she is a spud.

  118. glic says:

    Dear Samir Nasri
    I would like to apollogise for all the stick you got, compared to that Jason Cundy van Per$ie, your Mother Teresa, you little Angel you.

  119. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Chas 🙂
    Go on, ask Evonne what that instrument Native Aussies play ROLF

  120. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I actually believe Persie has ruined his life. Gets injured, career over, and he’s lost all the love he built up at Arsenal.

  121. chas says:

    I hope they’ve inserted an exploding micro chip in his Chiellini ankle.

    Evonne,
    Apart from the wobble boart, which instrument might ROLF play if he was an Aborigine?

  122. chas says:

    Might have a trip over to another site. Fancy some no holds barred outrage.

  123. glic says:

    Micky
    Whats all this about Native Aussies playing with ROLF Harris`s instrument ?. Hope it wasn`t Two little boys !.

  124. dandan says:

    BREAKING NEWS: Arsenal Manager Arsene Wenger has just been arrested after being caught mugging an OAP and robbing him of £24 million. #RVP

  125. glic says:

    Better than that chas, they`ve injected Nitro Glyserine into his Hampton, any sharp movement and it will explode !.

  126. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Glic/dandan 🙂
    Must go. Feeding time.

  127. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    This sums up the modern player. he can be at a great club for 8 years, captain the side and have the adulation of the support, yet he is never a fan.

    I never rated the pilliock anyway. When everyone raved about him last year i couldn’t understand it. I just kept quiet so others wouldn’t get upset.

  128. Gooner In Exile says:

    £24m on a four year contract for a 29 year old…..anyone seen much of Berbatov last couple of years?

  129. Gooner In Exile says:

    Anyway ho hum another one goes, and yes he was brilliant las year and i am a bit gutted he has gone to ManUre but at the end of the day thats life, £24m is good business, much more than i thought we were going to achieve for him.

  130. Gooner In Exile says:

    Giroud + Podolski =£23m
    Van Persie = £24m

    This is why I love Arsene Wenger

  131. kelsey says:

    No surprise to me as I stated a few days ago. This could be the biggest blunder both SAf and RVP have made.

  132. glic says:

    Stretch
    I dont want his knackers to shrink, quite the opposite, I want them to be pumped up with Nitrous Oxide, so they are the size of Space hoppers and when the Verminator tackles him, he will end up pinned to the ” Clock ” on the South Bank, laughing hysterically, like he`s lost his marbles !.

  133. dandan says:

    GIE. Exactly Deal evidently worth about £50. Million to RVP Plus what his Agent made, it better work for Utd or Messrs. Glazier wont be laughing

  134. evonne says:

    from evonnes laptop i can tell you that the instrument you refer to is a titeritoo no?

    peaches

  135. chas says:

    A quick trip was more than enough.
    It made me realise one thing.
    For me Brave Sir Robin left Arsenal when he issued his statement.
    He didn’t seem like an Arsenal player when he came on against Cologne.
    I didn’t expect him to play on Saturday for us, or ever again for that matter.
    Going to the mancs is the bit that stinks. The only ones willing to pay the price tag, I suppose.
    Four year contract of £220k a week. Who can blame him? 🙂

  136. VCC says:

    Good rid dons to the money grabbing Jason Cundy. We will be better without him.

    Go and spend the 24 million Mr Wenger.

    COYG

  137. dandan says:

    LOL sorry Messrs Glazier

  138. Gooner In Exile says:

    Nicked from Twitter:

    He Scores When He’s Fit
    He Scores When He’s Fiiiiiiit
    Robin Van Persie
    He Scores When He’s Fit.

  139. dandan says:

    Oh wont the press have a field day tomorrow, 606 and Talk Rubbish will be fit to burst 🙂

  140. Big Raddy says:

    Hope you chaps are right and this doesn’t come back to bite us.

    To think I raved about the Dutch Front Bottom. Total A will be gutted ……

  141. Gooner In Exile says:

    Total A was over him the minute he released that statement

  142. dandan says:

    BR you and I have seen it all before, Life will go on

  143. kelsey says:

    We have just balanced the books only this season we bought first.I don’t expect any more signings.

    At least I read your comments dandan 🙂

  144. California Gooner says:

    I scratch my head at this one. I really felt we had a better team than United this year had we kept RVP. The rest of you can be glib. I am gutted. He is not just goals and assists. He was tireless defending, brilliant hold up play, and leadership as well and a damned smart guy and good interview.

    This morning, I held out last minute hope that Barca’s VP came to London for Song but my actually be offered RVP to keep him out of Fergie’s clutches (and make him look bad). No such luck.

  145. dandan says:

    And me yours my friend

  146. johnnie nyc says:

    i dont like it..it makes us look very weak to everyone in the world..we sold our most successful player of the year to a rival, for not enough money.. and really made them better. i hope he and rooney dont get along well…that will be hilarious, because it would affect them on the pitch.almost like the dutch national team.. thats our best hope..as it is..i still think we can surpass them this season, because i love our squad

  147. Big Raddy says:

    CG. My feelings exactly.

    DD. You are of course right, we have seen it so often over the years but it still hurts to discover that one’s heroes have feet of clay (or glass).

  148. glic says:

    The entrance fee for our league game with Manscum will be worth it just to see the stick that, that Jason Cundy gets !. Children should not be allowed !.

  149. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    In all seriousness it was the right move. Hes not or never was an Arsenal fan and hes made his choice. The three players bought in are all offensive players who will not have any hang ups about Van Persie leaving. On the contary, Van Persies departure means they can play there own game and not have to bow to captain cock. Trust me, everything is going to plan, you shall see.

  150. glic says:

    A few unintelligible words from Redders would be appropriate at this time !.

  151. VCC says:

    Arsenal v ManUre will not be a game for Peaches Mum, unless she wears ear muffs.

  152. LB says:

    Wow, so it is official. I really have to know how long the contract is that they have offered him?

    It is not so much that I will miss him, it’s just that they are such a bunch of low life scum.

    Looks like I was wrong again.

    I am so confused I cannot remember the last time I got somethng right.

  153. dandan says:

    VCC I seem to remember the Spuds did that to Sol and it didnt make any difference did it.

  154. Gooner In Exile says:

    We need a “what happened next” post for all the players Arsene has sold at around the 28-30 year old mark.

    Kelsey by my calculations we have spent £14m this year so we still have £3m left over from last season…..Stephen Fletcher anyone?

  155. glic says:

    A top notch performance on Saturday and it will be Robin who ?.

    UTA

  156. Gooner In Exile says:

    LB 4 years…..just smile at the thought that he will turn into Berbatov, esoecially when Fergie realises he does about a much tracking back as Berba

  157. LB says:

    Ah, I have just seen Chas’ comment: four year contract 220 a week, well at least I was right when I said there is no way Arsenal have made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.

  158. dandan says:

    A top notch performance by the fans would help too glic

  159. GunnerN5 says:

    Good riddance.

    Our new signings make us a better all round team and from the pre-season evidence he was not needed and will not be missed. I wish him no evil but I really believe that he has made a major career error and will live in regret – just like several other (presumed) heroes.

    Silly Auld Fart has also made another of his ego buys but he will not live in regret – he will simply down another glass of single malt and drown out the noise………………….hic.

  160. keyamo ovie charles says:

    Vermaleen is my no 1 captain,4get abt RVP he is Ƌ greedy boy he is bitin the fingers dat fed him & he will get hungry,if RVP stays the capt band should be wit vermaleen & RVP should sit on the bench all thru the season & see podosky score goals in fifty’s & next year he will be sold in cents or coins

  161. glic says:

    He`s aging fast aswell, I predict he will look older than Fabrizio Ravenelli this time next year.
    He wear`s Grecian 2000 when he wants to.
    Actually he looks older than me, thats because I`ve got his picture up in my loft !.

  162. California Gooner says:

    Looking forward to burning a jersey before the game Saturday…

  163. Big Raddy says:

    70k a week more than AFC were offering and a 4 year contract. Of course he was going.

    Wonder how Rooney will feel not being top earner?

  164. evonne says:

    I am seriously hurt
    Cannot believe he woult to it to as a year after Na$ri
    Why woult Wenger allow him to go to ManU??

    Whole thing toes not make sense

  165. Big Raddy says:

    CG. Not that lovely one you bought in Illum, I hope.

  166. glic says:

    DD
    Somehow I think they`re gunner be well up for it !. 🙂

  167. glic says:

    It does e va va vonne, he`s a DOSSER !.

  168. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    “Giroud + Podolski =£23m
    Van Persie = £24m”
    Here’s the bad news…Santi £15m= who £15m 😦

  169. LB says:

    Ok, here is a question: do you think the club actually wanted him to stay and if not when do you think they decided they were happy for him to leave?

  170. LB says:

    Giroud and Podolski for the price of Van Persie.

    Talk about trade your old one in for two newer versions and still have change to buy sweets.

  171. California Gooner says:

    My nephew is flying out to California — we’ll burn his RVP jersey. Family therapy.

  172. glic says:

    LB
    Probably all the seasons before last season when he was injured , but no one wanted to buy the serial sick note. Last season was a cunning plan by Arsene to push his price up, from my sources, I have already seen a sick note sent today by 4th class mail, it will arrive on Jock Straps desk on Monday.

  173. goonermichael says:

    We need to get rid of song now. asap.

  174. goonermichael says:
  175. goonermichael says:

  176. glic says:

    CG
    Dont forget to remove it first !.

  177. chas says:

    LB,
    Yes, the club wanted him to stay.
    And they decided they were happy for him to leave when they realised he wouldn’t accept the most they were prepared to offer.

  178. kgooner says:

    Ok. So he’s gone. ManU will be better from his addition, no doubt. What i want to know is what Wenger’s plans are with the extra cash? Balancing the books, January tranfers, RB? Are we rumoured to be scouting for any 1?

  179. Gooner In Exile says:

    Micky that one’s easier than LB’s so i’ll start there….Nasri (albeit a season late).

    LB in truth I think possibly Christmas, when we first approached Cologne for Podolski, I think ideally Wenger would have liked to have signed him then and given him 6 months to bed in.

    As you say LB we were never going to give him what United have agreed to pay him, people complain about the wage bill now, what would they have said in a couple of years when Van Persie’s wages stopped us signing anyone else?

    NikB come back all is forgiven 😀

  180. neamman says:

    I dont want Song as a captain.. nothing against him.. but after TH14, Cesc and RVP it smacks of trying to keep him to stay rather than who is a real leader. I would be happy with TV or MA or BS based on what I have seen, but who knows just which is the leader in the dressing room. If Song stays then yes.. he should be the next captain AFTER TV etc. He is still too young now IMHO.
    Good baye RVP.. a class player and I thought a class act.. up until this off season. Still you gave us many memorable moments and I dont dislike you in the way I did Nasri. I also think we did the right thing to sell..he can never better 44 goals.

  181. goonermichael says:

    neamman
    song will be gone by next week. he’s another summer sag waiting to happen and another one of deins.

  182. goonermichael says:

    saga

  183. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Anyone got a spare for the Utd game?

  184. goonermichael says:

    A spare rocket launcher?

  185. goonermichael says:

    surface to rapist missile?

  186. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GM,
    No way will he be fit for that game.
    Talking of which, he has a medical on thurs according to Arsenal.com. Blimey! This could end badly.
    Nite all.

  187. goonermichael says:

    saha, owen, hargreaves. he’ll pass it

  188. Slimgingergooner says:

    If RvP had gone to another country in search of trophies, then I wouldn’t be bothered, but the fact he’s gone to United pisses me off.

    United won the same as us last season, nothing! They may have finished 17 points ahead of us but they have only bought Kagawa and Powell, whereas we have added Podolski, Giroud and Cazorla. Nothing about his move points towards winning trophies.

    If Chamakh leaves then we will buy another striker. If not then I think this may be the finished squad. We are stronger than last season though.

  189. Rasp says:

    Rasp 3 LB 0 😆

    Does anyone want to bet against my view on Song now 😕

    Let’s all forget about brave sir robin now and give our full support to The Pod and Giroud.- oh and get shot of any other players who think they are too good for the Arsenal

  190. goonermichael says:

    I missed it Rasp. song is gone.

  191. Rasp says:

    No I don’t think he’s gone yet gm, but its definitely on the cards. We should know by now not to believe anything a player or the club says when transfer negotiations are ongoing

  192. Rasp says:

    Hi slim, I really pray Chamakh goes, he’s such a lightweight and is not worthy of the shirt

  193. goonermichael says:

    I think it’s a great idea to get rid of song. He’s never going to sign a new deal and according to a lot of people on twitter his attitude is really bad, Wenger has already been looking for a replacement. i still think we are better than last season. 1st half in Cologne was fantastic with the new boys

  194. goonermichael says:

  195. goonermichael says:

    With that midfield 3 we’ll win everything!!!

  196. Rasp says:

    Who’s the good looking bloke on the right 😛

  197. goonermichael says:

    Song’s replacement Rasp. Chill I got this 🙂

  198. Rasp says:

    What a night …. Modric has just gone to Real

  199. Rasp says:

    😆 gm, I hope you are box to box!

    it’s like there is a domino effect in the transfer market.

    I really hope we get Sahin if Song goes, a midfield 3 of Arteta, Cazorla and Sahin (Jack when he’s fit) would be awesome.

    I don’t agree with everyone who says we would have too many changes, the really good players slip straight in like Cazorla did against Cologne.

  200. goonermichael says:

    For 24m Rasp. I thought levy was “astute” he turned down 40 last summer. we’ve got that for a 29 year old injury prone striker with one year left

  201. Slimgingergooner says:

    I also think that getting rid of Song is not a bad thing.

    He stroll’s too much for my liking and is too attacking to play DM. If we could replace him with a real ball winner who is happy to sit, then we would be much more solid.

    Javi Martinez would be a great option but probably a bit too pricey. I think we may end up with Capoue, or even M’Vila if Wenger can get the cash together.

  202. goonermichael says:

  203. Gooner In Exile says:

    According to Marca? Any announcement from clubs yet?

  204. Rasp says:

    Slim, Song’s body language has been shouting that he wants away all season.The big mistake would be to keep him and then sell him next year when the power transfers to his hands.

    We need players who are committed to Arsenal. I fear Sahin is going to pool unfortunately.

    If you believe as I do that under our current financial constraints we will always sell more than we buy (in terms of total expenditure) then Song would ot be replaced by anyone and the PR boys will big up Diaby.

  205. goonermichael says:

    A lot of negativity towards Wenger and the club on twitter. There’s a lot of support too though. i wonder if we’ll have a statement from red and white tomorrow

  206. Slimgingergooner says:

    With Giroud at 12m and Pod at 10m, 24m for RvP is amazing business. Espescially if Modric (aged 25?) is 24m. Wenger knows how to sell players! Madrid have got a bargain too.

    Anyone else think that United will be fuming at Rodwell to City for just 12m? He had United written all over him. Shift in power!

  207. Gooner In Exile says:

    I just have to sit and marvel at RvPs wage packet at United.

    I have to ask how anyone believes we as a club should compete. Or for that matter would want to, and how anyone expects these players to be able to be tied into contracts long term, there is simply no way we could have given that money to RvP before last season or before the 10/11 season. Ok he might have taken £100k-£120k before 10/11 but given the complaints about Diaby’s £50-60k a week I don’t see how it’s viable.

  208. evonne says:

    I’ve cracket it – R$P tit not want to go to ManU at all. He thought that clubs like Barca, Juve ant Chavs will fight over him. So, to force the sale the twat wrote that twit. As a result the fans went mat ant he knew that he really has to go. Wherever. Ant ManU were the only ones that wantet him

  209. goonermichael says:

    I think he’ll replace him Rasp. he’s already been looking.

  210. Shard says:

    I was upset with the thought of Van Persie wearing a ManU shirt…Until I remembered the tablecloth looking rag they’ll be wearing next season..and imagining Brave Sir Robin in that just made me laugh.. Talk about destroying everything that he’d built. Idiot.

    As for ‘replacements’, we have Podolski, Giroud, and Chamakh. Unless we can offload Chamakh, that might be our lot. If he does go, I still wouldn’t expect a Llorente or Lewandowski. Maybe a Niang or a Mirallas. Hopefully we get Sahin in (though Liverpool might just get him) I think we’ll see some reinforcements in either midfield or defense. Not a direct replacement for RVP.

    Song is altogether more interesting. If he’s sold, I would be absolutely gobsmacked. But those rumours are persistent.

    Whatever the case, I’m excited about the season ahead. Sunderland on Saturday.. An easy 2-0 just to get us warmed up with Podolski scoring the opener and Ramsey to score the second.

  211. Slimgingergooner says:

    Rasp, with the emergence of Coquelin I fear you may be right. But he looks just as promising as those I mentioned and he’s free!

    I really like Diaby, but I wouldn’t trust him to play as a DM, he doesn’t have the discipline for it.

    I know what your saying about balancing books etc, but do you not feel that there has been a slight shift in the way we are doing business? Certainly Wenger seems to be willing to buy experience. I just get the feeling that a 10m loss on transfers is acceptable now. Or maybe it’s just that we are making more from the likes of Vela etc than we realise

  212. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    He can fuck right off…!!

    Karma’s rented herself a flat in Manchester..as she knows she’ll be busy up there soon enough.

    ‘spare rocket launcher’ – GM at his best

    Night all

  213. Rasp says:

    There is a nightmare scenario here – buy 3, sell 3

    If we let Song and Theo go without bringing in anyone else we will have undone all the good work of the early summer.

  214. Rasp says:

    SGG @ 10:41, we’ll know the answer to that at the end of August. I’m beginning to think we may have got excited a it too quickly.

  215. neamman says:

    I believe we will buy a big name before the deadline, just to make a statement.

  216. Slimgingergooner says:

    Rasp,

    If Chamakh was sold, do you think Wenger could promise Theo to play through the centre, thus getting him to sign?

    I think it would be a good option all round, though personally, I think Theo would work best in a 2 up front.

  217. goonermichael says:

    Llorente has gone to Juve. £27m apparently

  218. Rasp says:

    SGG, I don’t think there is the slightest chance that Theo would play through the middle especially now we have Giroud and the Pod. I don’t actually think he’d be good there because of the way we play, he’s a right winger and should just concentrate on his art.

  219. Rasp says:

    Juve got a better deal than manu

  220. Slimgingergooner says:

    He’s good at running in behind and can finish pretty well. His crossing has improved greatly, but I still don’t think he’s a natural winger. He’s said himself on a few occasions that he wants to play central. I agree with you on the fact that I don’t think that’s going to be at Arsenal, but i feel that may be the only way to get him to sign.

    Will be interesting to see where Ramsey is in the pecking order this season. The signing of Cazorla and the return of Diaby and maybe Wilshire could potentially push him down 3 places. I also liked the look of Aneke and Eisfeld in pre season. I think I am going to give all the final squad a clean slate this season. There have been a lot of changes recently and if RvP showed us one thing it’s that fringe players can become key players. Can’t wait for the season to start.

  221. Gooner In Exile says:

    They always say it only takes one deal to start everything else moving, clearly Juves interest in VanPersie was to keep Llorente fee down, if they had £24m why not sign the man.

    If Sahin comes in would we mind if Song left, feels like Wenger may be breaking up the squad that never delivered.

  222. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    evonne, time to stop drinking hic The party is over hic 😆 But look there are worm infested timber boats leaving Indonesia every day bound for the land of milk & honey. Risking pirates, high seas etc to get to paradise has got to be better than a life sentence of eastenders and no trophys 😆

  223. Gooner In Exile says:

    SGG depends where you see Ramseys best position, for me it’s deeper than where he was playing last season.

    Perhaps the midfield becomes:

    Arteta/Ramsey/Coq……….Frimpong/Wilshere/Diaby

    …………….Ox/Santi/TR7/Eisfield………..

  224. goonermichael says:

    The Llorente to Juve is fake apparently. Sorry!

  225. Slimgingergooner says:

    For me it would be:

    Coquelin/Frimpong

    Arteta/Ramsey/Wilshire/Diaby

    Cazorla/Wilshire/Diaby/Rosicky/Ox/Eisfeld

    I feel that the DM is a specialist position which requires immense discipline and concentration aswell as great reading of the game. Whilst I agree that Arteta and Ramsey make fantastic deep lying midfielders (quarterbacks!), I think with their ability they would be tempted to make forward runs into space too often. Something that Song does too much at the moment.

    Only my opinion of course.

  226. Rasp says:

    SGG, I was very impressed with Eisfeld in preseason – but then I was impressed with Nordveit and we promptly sold him.

    GG, I hope evonne understands that because it makes no sense to me?

  227. Rasp says:

    It is interesting gm – but how do they know that?

  228. Slimgingergooner says:

    Ha! Too true Rasp!

    GM, if the Cazorla strike made you smile, then don’t watch Di Maria’s against ze Germans or you will end up looking like The Joker!

  229. goonermichael says:

    No idea Rasp. probably made it up 🙂

  230. Slimgingergooner says:

    Seems a little like they’ve filled in the blanks to me. I did read something about the initial meeting with RvP wouldn’t include contract talks. As for the rest, probably bollocks. You can’t tell me that Wenger wouldn’t have offered him a new contract if he was ‘warming’ to the idea of staying! Load of shite

  231. goonermichael says:

    Not for 200k a week slim

  232. goonermichael says:

    I like the story so I’m going to believe it 🙂

  233. barumgooner says:

    Oh well. He burnt his bridges with that stupid comment/statement. I truly believe that as much as i admired,respected and at times idolised the man he has left as a prat and indeed when in 3-4 months time his chocolate legs come back to haunt him and Fergie it will be us the true gooners who will be laughing. Well played Arsene.

  234. barumgooner says:

    Gm, I like the story too. I would like to think our little french manager has played a blinder. And I dont mean to be a fickle fan, I will always remember Robin fondly but is he really going to be value for money for the mancs ?…..I dont think so.

  235. goonermichael says:

    I’m fickle. i can’t say what i think of him on here 🙂

  236. Slimgingergooner says:

    Check out Bresciano volley v Scotland!

  237. oz gunner says:

    Evonne, it’s time to begin planning!

  238. Gooner In Exile says:

  239. oz gunner says:

    Morning all,

    Forgot to say miles this was a great piece, very thorough! Arteta for me every day of the week. He just brings this calmness to the midfield and oozes class/leadership. Verm is a natural leader and juggernaut so making him captain won’t change much. Whereas with Arteta i feel he’ll step up another gear!

  240. oz gunner says:

    great pics chas, Saw a great one of him in a man united tracksuit using crutches after a medical haha

  241. chas says:

    Morning oz,
    I haven’t got a clue why sometimes the photo comes up and other times not. Perhaps GIE or GM knows?

  242. chas says:

    The article below by Amy Lawrence includes this. I wonder what the outlandish set of demands were?

    “Long before van Persie’s statement on his official website, which was basically a euphemistic interpretation of a transfer request, his club were made abundantly aware of the Dutchman’s desire to leave. At the end of the last campaign, before the European Championships, he and his representatives sat down with Arsenal and made a set of demands about the running of the club that were so outlandish that the warning signs were impossible to miss. ”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/15/arsenal-robin-van-persie-manchester-united1?CMP=twt_gu

  243. MickyDidIt89 says:

    £200k a week for 4 years!! Wowee
    GM,
    Superb pic.

  244. LB says:

    The Fat Lady has not sung yet……………he still has a medical to pass and anyone who thinks that is a slam dunk might want to think again.

  245. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    Ha ha, shrewd accounting there, bringing forward the Nasri money. You know damn well you can only get away with that because RA is on holiday 🙂
    Sorry, the books do not balance 😦

  246. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All. OK – I am over him. Last night’s feelings took me back many years to when I was let go (dumped) by a special girlfriend. Felt awful for a few days but had a new one by the weekend, and the new one was better in oh so many ways.

  247. oz gunner says:

    that’s a very interesting read Chas. I’d like to know too. Surely he wasn’t that egotistical to chuck his two cents worth in about running the club. No-one should have that right, if i was Arsene i would have slapped some sense into him. What a complete and utter so and so..

  248. MickyDidIt89 says:

    LB,
    I said that last night, and found myself “slam dunked” by the Hargreaves comment 🙂

  249. LB says:

    As a nation I have always found the Dutch to be an amiable collection of people but for some reason as soon as one of them puts on the orange shirt of the national team with a high number on the back indicating attacker they turn into some of the most arrogant, egotistical people in the world.

  250. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Have to say that while I think its nuts flogging him to Utd, I am not even 1% less excited about seeing the team on saturday. Ox and Cazorla. What’s not to look forward to?

  251. MickyDidIt89 says:

    LB
    Are you having a go at DB10?

  252. oz gunner says:

    That’s the spirit BR you big pimp you haha.

    Now we just need to find us a new Arsenal girlfriend (to add to pod and giroud).

  253. LB says:

    It’s not that I didn’t think Van Persie would leave I just didn’t for the life of me think that Manu were stupid enough to push the boat out for an injury prone 29 year old.

  254. oz gunner says:

    om vah LB! I’m telling TA!

  255. LB says:

    Micky

    I should have made clear that I was only refering to mortals.

  256. Big Raddy says:

    Micky. You are very sharp this morning. Double Espresso?

    Been trying to work out the team for Sunderland. Is Arteta fit?

  257. evonne says:

    Chas – arrogant prick. He ant SAF will get on well

  258. LB says:

    Oz

    TA is on hoiiday which is the only reason I had the courage to write that.

  259. chas says:

    You put your Giroud in
    You put your Giroud out
    In out in out, you shake it all about
    You do the Goldi Poldi and you turn around
    That’s what it’s all about.
    Oo-oh the Goldi Poldi, oo-oh the Goldi Poldi…….

  260. MickyDidIt89 says:

    LB,
    Brilliant reply.
    ROLF

  261. evonne says:

    From Chas’ BBC article:

    “It is understood Van Persie was encouraged by the arrivals of Germany forward Lukas Podolski, France striker Olivier Giroud and Spain midfielder Cazorla – to the point where he was open to the idea of staying with or without a new contract.

    But Wenger pulled him aside shortly before Sunday’s friendly victory over Cologne, told him he would be sold if a deal could be reached and informed the Dutchman he was no longer part of his plans.”

    I am going to break life long habit of not beliving anything in the metia and take the above as gospel 🙂

  262. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Blooty Metia!
    Morning Evonne.

  263. evonne says:

    Morning Micky, new laptop on its way 🙂
    Rumour has it that RiP will take over Michael Owen’s empty seat

  264. Another One says:

    Evonne,

    You must have found your d again. Bit like putting your teeth back in. lol

  265. chas says:

    Morning Evonne,
    The BBC article was postet by GM.

  266. chas says:

    ROLF

  267. Another One says:

    Evonne, is it true that the cat playet the fittle, while the rat tit a pittle?

  268. Another One says:

    ROLF = Roll on laughing floor. Que?? lol

  269. evonne says:

    Another – no, copy ant paste job.
    I have to take your wort about teeth, is it that awful then 🙂

    many fans are coming to terms with the latest act of treachery ant beginning to see the possitives. Actually, it’s not a bat business. We get more than he is worth, Manure will pay £40m in wages for a bench warmer ant our strikers will no longer be intimitatet by the golten boots. Time for Gervinho to shine

  270. evonne says:

    Micky – have you namet the pigs yet? Call them Robin ant Persie

  271. LB says:

    Rasp

    I have to admit you were right; you said thoughout last season that Van Persie’s body language was shouting that he wanted to leave.

  272. Another One says:

    Evonne

    I lost my front milk tooth as a kid and whistled and lisped every time I said a word with an s in it.

    I told the teacher at school when I was late that I had “misth the busth and had to crossth the road before the pedesthrian crossthing.” Glad when my new one grew. lol

  273. Bryan says:

    I think Wenger has got it wrong with every captain, since Vieira.
    Henry wasn’t a good captain & his head seemed to swell a bit, Cesc was far to quiet as a captain which you could also say about Van Persie but he did seem to get a good team spirit going.
    Think its the easiest decision of all now to make Vermaelen the captain as he is clearly the right choice.

    I feel so let down with RVP, really didn’t think he would go to Man U

  274. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Evonne,
    They came with names. Very unimaginative, but they are one year old, so unfair to change. Took them out for thier first walk yesterday and its quite a sight watching a 100 pound wobble bottom running.

  275. chas says:

    Ceremonial burning on Saturday?

  276. Rasp says:

    Since we built the Emirates, we have made a net profit on player sales compared to purchases – to do that this summer we would need to sell Song and Walcott and not buy any more replacements – it could happen 😦

  277. ridwan mustapha says:

    van persie is an ingrate, we should let him go.and make thomas vermaelan the captain.

  278. evonne says:

    Micky – took pigs for a walk? Their first walk? Right, I see

    Chas – links not working 😦

    Another – I thought you were suggesting that I have tentures, I ton’t, I have enhancet teeth 🙂

  279. evonne says:

    ritwan – NO, we shoult make Chamakh the next captain to ensure he’ll go next summer

  280. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. You are right, it could.

    As I said a couple of days ago, the end of summer task will be the selling of the unused squad players. Song & Theo are assets – why sell them, especially Theo?

  281. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp,
    I am nearly always right, but that is primarily as I get my U-turns in nice and early, but I have been saying we need to flog two from three, so I reckon only one of Song or Theo, not both.

  282. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Raddy,
    I reckon we still need to recoup about £15m, and I cannot see that coming from Cham/Bendy etc.

  283. Big Raddy says:

    Cham, Bendy, AA, Park. Must be able to raise 12m between them. Maybe even get some money for Denilson.

  284. Rasp says:

    I agree Raddy. I’d like to see us sell Song and get Sahin on loan/right to buy and then keep hold of Theo – but that may not balance the books.

    I’d almost allowed myself to be carried along by the enthusiasm of others – if we do sell Song and Theo and not bring in any replacements, I will find it very hard to support those who own/run our club, I shall always support the team.

  285. Rasp says:

    Denilson is on loan, Bendy says he’ll only go to a club who are in the CL (fat chance) and no-one is daft enough to want to match the wages of Chamakh or Park.

  286. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. OK. Another viewpoint. All 4 players are established Internationals. 3 of them have fine national scoring records. Chamakh looked exceptional before he came to AFC who do not play to his strengths – he will do well back in France.

    I can easily see Nik doing well at ,say, West Ham. He will score goals. His problem is that good as he is, he is not Arsenal good (or even CL good)

    AA still has a few years at the top. No-one can doubt his ability and at 3 or 4m he is a steal.

    Park. I feel really sorry for the man. Doing well at Monaco, hero worshipped at home and then AW derails his career. Nonetheless he has value to someone, though not in the PL.

    That said, wages as ever will be a problem.

  287. chas says:

    I can’t see us re-investing the BSR money.
    If that was the plan, wouldn’t we have done it before he was sold to get the best price?
    If we went out with the money and bought M’Vila, it would go a huge way to pacifying many fans and undermine Song’s bargaining position, too. (that’s if he is genuinely angling for a move)

  288. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp,
    Theo needs to re-sign, so he is in a position to force Arsenals hand. If we were to lose one of the two and not replace, then I think Song would be a bigger loss to the balance of the team. However, Theo has the bigger potential.
    Personally, although Sahin is a great player, and the massive bonus of being free, he is not the defensive type of midfielder we need.
    Scouts, get scouting. We could be after a brilliant holding player. Free.

  289. Rasp says:

    Morning chas, if we do not sell Song this summer he will be gone next, so I say let him go now as long as we find a suitable replacement.

    Raddy, if all that is true, why aren’t they sold already. It seems an Arsenal team can either make a player look better than he really is or worse. Watching the performances of Arshavin and Chamakh for Arsenal has hardly been encouraging to new suitors, and if Park can’t even get a game that doesn’t recommend him to anyone.

  290. Rasp says:

    Hi Micky, I think the likes of Sahin and cazorla will be fine as long as we can keep Arteta on the pitch and up until the time Jack returns. These guys work much harder off the ball than Song who was not a disciplined DM for us last season any way.

  291. Rasp says:

    …… New post ………

  292. Gooner In Exile says:

    Chas…..Twitter images only come up if you copy link to the tweet not to the image file.

    Rasp….ManUre are about to pay £200k a week to RvP anythings possible with wages in this mad world.

    Spuds still haven’t signed a striker maybe they want NikB, Cham and Park, swap deal for…..Er ok they have no one we want!

  293. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Peaches,

    Could we have a captaincy poll please?

  294. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp,
    Yes Song was caught too high up the pitch last season, but so were the FB’s, Verm and even Kos. In many ways Song was making up for the absense of a Cesc’Nasri. Now we have Cazorla, and hopefully a more restrained approach to our attacking/defending balance, meaning Song “could” stay put and be a superb DM.

  295. LB says:

    I am amazed that anyone who saw Park when he first arrived thought he was anything other than a shirt seller, anything more I only saw as a bonus.

    Park is an inexpensive long shot.

  296. chas says:

    Thanks GIE,
    I thought I’d tried both in the past. Obviously not.

    Rasp,
    Song has three years left on his contract. Why would he be sold next summer?

  297. LB says:

    I totally agree Micky.

    I have constantly argued that Song moved further up the pitch last season in an attempt to make up for the deficiencies of those just in front of him; now we have Cazorla there should be far less reason for him to do so.

  298. chas says:

    NG,
    There was a captaincy poll on TA’s July 22nd post.

  299. LB says:

    I remain as optimistic as I was after the game on the weekend. What I saw was a total reorganisation of the team to cope with a RvP or without — and the first half, withou,t remains impressive.

  300. Bryan says:

    I agree with LB, Song had to cover for the deficiencies of the players in front of him.
    For me he is one of our most valuable players, I have watched him from when he played in the reserves at Barnet’s ground, where he was consistantly the best player on the pitch.
    I really don’t think people appreciate just what he does like Madrid didn’t appreciate Claude Makelele until he left.
    I would still like to see us bring in M’Vila as I think he is the big bruiser we could really do with but that looks dead in the water now

  301. Brian says:

    This item has been introduced by Civant Skincare and it
    claims to reduce discolorations and dark spots appearing on your skin within a couple of weeks.

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