OK, technically we’ve won the PL once in the last 10 years if you want to be pedantic – but my cunning handicapping system based on money spent in the transfer market has revealed that we’ve actually won 7 times and come second on the other 3 occasions.
Don’t worry, this came as quite a revelation to me as well – after all, some would say that we have under achieved recently under Arsène Wenger.
So how do I arrive at this astonishing conclusion? It’s quite simple; I am factoring our ability to compete financially with the teams that have finished above us into the equation. By now you may be sensing that my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek – and it is. But there is a serious point, in fact there are several serious points….. read on……
Here is my Financial Fair Play Premier League table for the last 10 years.
The ‘Position’ column on the right is where Arsenal should have finished if FFP (or actually my conveniently manipulated version of it) were in place. I have taken points away from every club that has spent millions more than Arsenal in that period = financial handicapping. We should, by right, be battling against relegation if our performance reflected our net spending in the transfer market.
So what do I base this ludicrous assertion on? Well have a look at the comparative spending of the big 5 clubs over the last 10 years.
There is a mere half a billion difference between Manchester City and Chelsea and the Arsenal … and guess what, one won the CL and the other the EPL this season so I think we can accept that sooner or later big spending pays off if you judge success in terms of trophies.
The table below shows the net spend of last season’s 20 Premier League clubs over the last decade. Arsenal is in nineteenth place with a balance of minus £4.5m. Only Blackburn are below us. The real under achievers are Totnum who are third with a net spend of £232m and Liverpool in fourth with a net spend of £207m – and not a Premier League title between them to show for it. So maybe 200m is not enough, but 500m gets the job done. Or maybe those two clubs are just poorly run?
Even relegated Wolves have a net spend of £50m more than Arsenal over the same period and that with only a brief flirtation in the EPL.
Chelsea top the list. As everyone knows, they entered a new era when Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich bought the club in 2003, but they are run a very close second by Manchester City who were bought by the Abu Dhabi United Group 5 years later in 2008 and will undoubtedly outspend Abramovich over the next few years.
The statos amongst you will no doubt correct me on some of my figures but what I think everyone can agree on is that Arsenal cannot compete with City or Chelsea in the transfer market. Usamov is currently not in a position to inject his millions into Arsenal and I for one hope he never is, but that is another debate.
Personally I am very sceptical about the effect of the real FFP as I cannot see UEFA penalising the biggest clubs in the world in a way that would encourage the formation of breakaway leagues. However, I believe that Manchester United, Liverpool and Totnum will be reigning in their spending in the future and the two Spanish giants are almost certain to be affected by the impending crisis in the Spanish banking system.
Like all arguments based on statistics, there is always another way of looking at things. In this case, the problem is that if I was to recalculate my version of the FFP table and to base it upon expenditure on wages instead of net transfer spending, then Arsenal would not rate as highly. In fact, if you based expected league position on wages alone, Arsenal are about where you’d expect.
The basic maths shows that we pay disproportionately high wages in relation to the amount we spend in the transfer market when compared to pretty much every other PL club (I haven’t checked the all). This policy was no doubt borne of necessity due to the costs associated with building the Emirates – but do we have to persist with it in 2012?
My hope is that we are rethinking our wage structure and some of those players who have been rewarded handsomely but failed to achieve the potential we saw in them, will be moved on this summer. If Mr Gazidis and his team (who quite frankly haven’t impressed me so far) can renegotiate some more lucrative sponsorship deals and increase revenue worldwide, then we should have the financial clout to fend off all but City and Chelsea in the domestic transfer market. We should also be able to reward our top players at the ‘market rate’.
The other teams with aspirations of being able to compete at the top (tots and pool) know that they have to build a 60,000 seat stadium to generate the income required – and as every Arsenal supporter knows, the true cost of that is 5 or 6 years of difficult transition and financial prudence.
Our footballing style and club ethos may be enough to make up the rest of the disparity between us and the super rich teams but it won’t be easy. The football hierarchy for the EPL has been set for the foreseeable future and Arsenal are in a great position to be the ‘best of the rest’.
It’s going to be an interesting few years ahead. The landscape of the Premier League has changed forever. The early portents for our future development will be revealed by this summer’s transfer activity. I believe we will inevitably continue to be a feeder club to the super rich teams but we should be the front runners in signing any player we target when we are not in competiton with the big spenders.
The big question is: will we continue with our current policy, or will we increase the amount we are prepared to pay for top players as our revenue increases?
Written by Rasp
Disclaimer: I gathered the stats reproduced in this article from what appeared to be reputable sources. The odd figure may be a point or 2 out but the overall picture is correct I believe.
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Going back to read the post but ….
Further to this morning’s discussion. Can anyone tell me if there is the facility to adjust the 25 named squad players in the case of long term injury?
Ok,
Is this the biggest time lag between post going up and first comment.
Hardly surprising, that’s some serious work gone into that post Rasp.
Fascinating. Thank you very much.
Don’t worry about a break away league, any player not “registered” by Fifa or Uefa will/should not be eligable to to play at a world cup or Euro’s. I’m sure fifa will be able to combat the breakaways with national pride etc or will they……….
Fantastic stuff Rasp.
To know we are punching above our weight is highly satisfying yet why doesn’t it feel so? Why do I expect us to be in the mix at season’s end and not 19 points behind when money spent is so clearly influential?
Do I and millions of other Gooners have unrealistic expectations?
Darn you Raddy, but then you haven’t read the Rasp Magnum Opus, or as Baldrick calls it Magnificent Octopus.
I do think that in line with the spend to accumulate thinking, we absolutely need to ensure that while we cannot compete with squad depths and spending of others, we can maintain what The Arsenal stands for in the modern era, and that’s entertaining football. We so need a class AM to replace Cesc and keep us at the top of the pile in this respect.
Look how many newish Gooners last week said that what drew them to The Gunners was DB10 rather than trophies.
Top drawer post Rasp – the effort is very much appreciated. As we all know there are lies, damn lies and statistics. And I like your statistics very much!
I’m sure when I’ve heard the club spout off that they have money to spend Arsene has always intimated that any figure for “transfers” includes wages. So having a £50m pot probably only equates to £20m when you bare in mind the wages we appear to be paying. That said it’s baffling why some clubs on a fraction of our income have a far greater net expenditure. Does that mean some of these clubs will be going to the wall any time soon?
Hi Raddy, we punch above our weight in relation to net spending in the transfer market. In terms of money paid in wages we are about evens. So it’s not all good I’m afraid.
Very true, wages and profit/loss in transfers should be considered as one sum. The difference with Arsenal is that we apportion a far higher percentage of our budget to wages (and therefore less towards player purchase) than most other PL sides.
Although we are on paper one of the better payers, the problem is there is very little disparity between the top earners ie Robin and the average players. This is also true of some of the kids who have yet to play a meaningful game for us. Some of the youth team I gather are on ridiculously high wages.
Rasp a top post there with lots to consider, I am still not here so will be brief.
The wages are interesting, neither City, Liverpool,or Chelsea require the costs associated with a 60000 seater stadium.
That said we are still £30m behind United and to put that in perspective its £23k per week per player (assuming a 25 man squad). Chelsea the difference is £54k per week per player.
That’s actually massive when you think about it and makes a huge difference in keeping players happy.
Raddy in answer to your question you name squad on 1st September until 31st December. Before that you can play as many as you like, same goes for the period between 1st and 31st January, then on 1st February squad is named for rest of season. Only time changes can be made is in case of emergency (normally loan keeper signings).
I wish my comments were as good as GiE’s when I’m not here 🙂
Good point GiE. The wage bill is not just for players. Also wages form the greater part of the total expenditure for most clubs and for smaller clubs, selling may be a way of meeting players wages for the following season.
Thanks GIE. Enjoy your holiday.
Rasper, 🙂
That is a smashing Post and I hope you will keep on keeping on with them. 🙂
The ‘net spend’ figures are inevitably going to cause some distortion without a weighting adjustment to equalize out some of the obvious ‘blips’.
For example, the sale of a single player such as “Fall over my own Feet’ Ronaldo for the incredible sum of £85m clearly has ‘benefitted’ Manure in your calculations.
Not that I am suggesting this in anyway detracts from the point you are making.
With regard to the wages/salaries figures and the ramifications of that in your league tables, GIE has already made an important observation.
To add to that, it has to be realised that Arsenal’s ‘bring thru the youngsters’ policy rather than buy established players like the other ‘big hitters do, [cause: Emirates etc] has a corollary that in order to keep our own potential young stars, we have to pay them very good salaries both to keep them out of the clutches of the big spenders, but also as recompense for not getting as much game time as they could get elsewhere, while they are maturing.
But look at what would happen if we did not pay these good salaries to the ‘potential young stars’ [Jack] we would have to go out and buy established quality players [even if that is possible when competing against the wealth of Citeh, Manure, Chavs, Madrid, Barca, blah, blah] and that would mean a huge increase in the transfer spend with an attendant boost in the wages/salaries paid.
I know I am a boring accountant/mathematician but it is simply not possible to look at individual sets of figures/data and postulate/extrapolate ‘what if’ scenarios without looking at the whole context, and in Arsenal’s case to understand what the main drivers are, as compared with the profligate ‘money is no object’ policy of the oligarchs and the oily Sheiks.
I love the thought and effort that you have put into a really meaty Post. 🙂
Thanks RA, I appreciate the stats are selective and open to interpretation, but the basic point is that we pay top wages (in terms of total spend) but are very much in the 2nd tier when it comes to the amount we are prepared to pay for top talent – and I am hopeful that will change if IG can earn his wages by increasing our commercial revenue.
As far as the work that has gone into the post is concerned, I’m afraid it is far too ‘meaty’ and in retrospect I wish I’d made it short and sweet 😕
Thanks Rasp.. for this very special info..
It make me more proud for being a gunner..
I wonder about Chelsea that already bring Hazzard and Hulk, yet still want to bring Van Der Weil, Walcott and Sagna..
100 mil budget to bring star.. what an ambitious grazy Abramovic..
How about FPP..???
Why Chelsea still buying alot and Arsenal not..???
Can Anybody give me a reason why this big grazy clubs seem not pay attention to this FPP rules..??? And how long still our big stadium cost us debt..??? thanks..
Rasp,
In 2010, Manure bought; Smalling £11m, Hernandes £7m, Bebe £8m; totalling £26m.
In 2011, Manure bought; Jones £17m, De Gea £18m, Young £17m, Lindegard £4m; totalling £56m.
They (Manure/Ferguson) are now squealing that they are comparatively ‘poor’ and cannot compete financially against the ‘big’ spenders.
That just goes to show that if big spending (£82m gross in 2 years) Manyoo feel that they cannot compete in the transfer market, [what chance Arsenal?] that it is desperately important that the FFP rules bite to create a more level playing field.
Let’s not forget that this close season, so far, they were also jilted by £32m Hazard, have bought £17m Kagawa, want to buy £25m Modric and as I understand it may buy more players after the Euros with an eye on replacing Scholes and Giggs.
Makes our £9m Pod look like a bargain basement buy?
Yes exactly RA, but maybe M’Vila is worth the reported £22m asking price – do you think we’ll stretch to that?
Top post Rasp.
One thing strikes me is this.
People waffle on about our young guys earning ridiculous money.
People waffle on about the 71 players on our list.
Look where we are on the annual wage bill and explain how these things can possibly be true???
Agreed,we should have some players on more and some on less,but if we have more players being paid,and there all being overpaid,how come our bill is relatively low???
This is not really anything to with Rasps post,but his stats on the wage bill brought this to notice.
Evening all.
Rasper,
I could tell you have put a lot of time and research effort into your fascinating Post.
Can I say, if it is any recompense, that the quality and class of the writing allied to the comprehensive statistical data tables makes for great reading and confirms you are up there with Rockydillo, TA and the other top site authors, not just on AA but on any of the Arsenal blogs! Kudos my man! 🙂
Excellent post Rasp, i realy enjoyed reading it, thank you.
Most of what i was going to say has been superbly covered by Redders, and following on to what he was saying the only thing i can add is that the overiding factor behind our wages and net transfer figures is Strategy. We know we can not compete for ready made stars so the policy is to get them young, educate them under Wenger, and hope they become big stars in there own right. overall the policy is sound, sure there are some overpaid players that did not fulfill there potential but that is to be expected. The biggest problem, and my eternal gripe, which ime sure bores people is that the ones that are on the cusp of been great players are lured away for bigger bucks. If we overcome this catch 22 we will more than compete, in fact i think we will be the best.
Superb post
Rasp,
My reading on Arsenal’s current transfer plans are twofold.
First I think the RVP negotiations have all the signs/smell of the protracted Cesc/Na$ri saga. It takes two to tango, and money is not the key element here.
I say that because RVP can double the dosh we can offer him, almost anywhere else.
Given his age, (29 soon) he is probably genuinely weighing up his trophy winning chances and knows without AW beefing up the quality playing side, we are going to be also rans next season, despite our fervent wishes to the contrary.
On the other side, Arsenal are trying to get tough and call his ‘bluff’ by saying they will not sell him, whatever happens. This is bulls*** because that would fly in the face of all the club’s claims to financial prudence.
I do not know which way it will go, but I think RVP will want some silverware and that Arsenal will blink first, and so the odds are that he will go. 😦
If my reading of the above is correct, this RVP saga may well distract the powers that be from their pursuit of suitable, affordable transfer targets, rather like last year, and even leaving aside Arsenal’s well known parsimonious attitude towards paying more than £15m on any individual player, it is possible that we will lose out on M’Vila (or whoever).
The secondary but key issue, probably lies in our ability, or not, to offload fringe or unwanted players like Bendy, Vela etc to offset the transfer and salary costs of an incoming player.
That being said, hesitation, in both the business as well as the football world, can be fatal to any club’s aspirations.
My advice to AW?
Do not hesitate, do not procrastinate!
Make up your mind, be clear in what you intend to do – and go for it! 🙂
Now, just as my friends have come out to play [Morning to you, Glicster/TerryM 🙂 ], I have to disappear.
Laters guys, if I can.
It also makes me unbelievably proud of our club. That net spend table of millions spent over the last 10 years is something I keep on myself, to show other teams fans when they diss us off about not winning anything !.
I`m proud of the way we do thing`s and I feel FFP will work, but If It doesn`t ( I give myself another 5 years where I expect to see a level playing field ) then I will then be forced to accept that we will need an Usmanov figure to help us challenge and join the soul sellers .
If there is a Dennis, then FFP will work.
Hello, goodbye Redders ! 🙂
Thank you Red Arsecus for your advise.
I have already been In discussions with your friends Transplanticus and Handsomecus and be relaxed to know that there will be a lot of movement this summer and all in the best possible taste.
Cornwall, good points.
i also use FFP in my private life. Down the boozer, where i am consistently accused of been a tight git, i take out my contractual document “Terrys Financial Fair Play” (TFFP), which quite clearly shows that not only do i break even in drinks bought for me and my purchase for others but it is also done in the most fair and equitable fashion. For example, ‘Skinny Steve’, receives from me an average of 1.268 pints per night, were as ‘Fat Bouncer Alex’ receives 3.263 pints (Also when Fat Alex asks for a drink, you buy him one)
This is why FFP will eventuly work. Everything will be documented and logged and overtime things will fall into place. The concept is so great that i intend to introduce “Terrys Emotional Fair Play” which i will soon be presenting to my wife. if you dont hear from me for a while i can be contacted through my Divorce Solicitors. hahaha
Terry
Maybe you should use my version, ” glic`s emulsional fair play “, thats where I get my body covered all over in edible paint , whilst being conveyed through my hareem , the screams of delight can be heard for yards away, my lucky ,lucky wives !.
Rasp,
Can I sugest another handicap system as well.
It’s called ‘alphabetically’. Not sure of the exact detail at the moment but as soon as I work it out, I’ll get back to you ;D
Andy. That is top work. The FA should implement it immediately 🙂
That’s brilliant Andy 😆
An added bonus of that system is that totnum would be in the relegation zone
This is from Arsenal.com. I appreciate that it’s a very long report but I thought you may want to read it in full instead of just hearing about it in a piece meal manner.
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Gazidis: ‘We came together at critical times’
Arsenal’s Chief Executive, Ivan Gazidis, has granted a wide-ranging interview to the Club’s official website in which he reflects on the 2011/12 campaign and discusses plans for the summer and next season.
on the 2011/12 season…
It was a challenging season, we went through a lot of transition in the team with nine new players coming in. We really lost the creative hub of the team for different reasons, with Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Jack Wilshere so that was a challenge for us going into the season.
I think we were under intense pressure at times during the season but I felt that the team and the fans came together at critical times. We have ended the season in third place with guaranteed qualification for next season’s Champions League and that allows us to plan with certainty going into next year.
But none of this is cause for popping champagne corks at Arsenal. We want to win things. So while it is a creditable performance it is not achieving our ambition. What we have to work out this summer is how we can take the Club on and take a step forward. That is what we are working hard on at the moment.
on his personal high point…
I think for me the run of games that we had in February and March, particularly here at Emirates Stadium. I felt that under pressure at difficult times, our fans, players, team and club really came together. I felt at times like our new stadium really began to feel like our home.
There was a tremendous unity that pulled us through those times and developed momentum which ultimately ended up carrying us across the line to the Champions League places, which earlier in the season we had been written off from. That to me was the highlight, the atmosphere at those games and the way our fans pushed us forward and came together.
on the supporters…
Our away fans are magnificent, we have the best away support in the league. Everywhere we go we know we have their backing and that really does make a difference. To have it come together here in a similar kind of way at Emirates Stadium [is great]. It has happened in the past but I think the way it has happened week after week, you felt that this place was becoming a really difficult place for opposition teams to come. Even when we were down a goal with two minutes to go, you always felt like we could get there and our fans had that belief. That is something I would love for us to carry forward into next year.
on the Club’s football ambitions for 2012/13…
We want to win major competitions, we want to win the Premier League. We want to compete to win the Champions League and that is our ambition. That is what we are planning for during the course of the summer and everything we do is geared towards that, it is very simple.
on developments this summer…
I think the good thing about this summer is that there is more certainty in terms of our Champions League position. We have acted early to get the critical signing of Lukas Podolski. Our fans will be able to see him compete at the Euros and see what a very good player he is. The great thing about Lukas is that not only can he contribute goals, but he can also play in different positions so you get tremendous versatility and Arsenal class. He is technically a top-class player and that was a good early addition for us.
I think the way that the window will pan out is with some activity before the Euros, particularly with respect to the European players who are playing, the quieter period while the Euros are actually taking place and then a period of activity afterwards.
We always try and conduct our activity as early as we can, everybody wants to do that. But I would say an even bigger overriding priority is to make sure that we get the right pieces in place. We have a good squad which is very solid across all areas, we have developed a very solid British core of young players and this is the youngest squad in the Premier League. They are developing year on year.
Some of the players we have brought in, for example Per Mertesacker, Thomas Vermaelen and Laurent Koscielny at the back, are developing in the Premier League and I think this is a year for them to really step forward and show what they can do with some experience under their belts.
Then we have some experienced players who bring know-how into the team, players like Mikel Arteta, Andre Santos – those types of players who come in and add something a little bit different. The key for us is not the volume of signings we might make but that the signings we make add something to the squad. That is something Arsène thinks extremely carefully about and for all of the pressure he is placed under, he tends to make good decisions.
on Robin van Persie…
Robin sat down with us at the end of the season and we had a good discussion. What we agreed at that meeting was that we would keep all the discussions we had over the summer to ourselves and make announcements when it is the right time. We have to respect the fact we have agreed to keep that among ourselves. Robin is clearly focused on the Euros at the moment and we wish him well, and at the right time we will make the right announcements. But at the moment we are not saying anything.
on Pat Rice…
Pat has been with the Club for 44 years, and although he is retiring as our assistant manager, that association is not going to end. First of all he will be here as a fan but also I think we will find the right role for Pat within the Club so we can continue to draw on his expertise as a player and as a coach.
Through all those years Pat Rice embodied Arsenal values, embodied Arsenal Football Club. It is a significant challenge for us to take what Pat has contributed and continue in that tradition. From everybody at the Club, and you can feel the affection that Pat has among everyone here, we thank him for everything and look forward to his contributions.
At the same time, we are bringing in Steve Bould and Neil Banfield. These are two people who have been with the Club and know the way it works, who understand the traditions and the values of the Club, and who will bring their own ideas to the table. Neither of them are wall flowers, so we have two new active participants in the first team set-up. Arsène is very excited about the contributions they will bring. So am I and I think so is every Arsenal fan. They are very progressive, very forward-looking and they understand Arsenal values; the way we play the game and what we represent.
on a new chapter…
I do think it is an opening of a new chapter, yes. Obviously we will miss Pat – there is too much to talk about in terms of the elements he brought to the table – but I think this is an opportunity to have some new ideas and fresh thinking. I think that will be healthy and I know that both Steve and Neil will bring new ideas and new thoughts to the table.
on commercial operations…
One of the things we have to do as a club is become less reliant on our matchday revenue. As a big club we are very reliant on the revenues we generate in the stadium, more so than any other big club. That has really been the impetus and catalyst for what we do globally and how we develop ourselves around the world. We take advantage of the fact we have fans all around the world and we can connect with them.
So you are seeing the Club go on international tours for the first time. That is a tremendous step forward and has been welcomed by our international fan base. Our partners are also welcoming that development. We are developing our commercial revenues and our commercial partnerships well ahead of our five-year plan. They are going very well and we are seeing renewal of major partnerships like Citroën.
We are seeing new partners come in like Indesit or Betsson and most recently we have just announced Malta Guinness in Africa. So there are tremendous developments on the commercial front and that is important for the Club that we have partners who can help us to connect with fans all around the world, develop our commercial revenue streams and take some of the pressure off locally-generated revenues here in London. We are well on track in that.
on commercial activities to fund on-field activities…
The reason we are doing all of this is to invest in what we have on the football side. We don’t take money out of the Club, all of it is reinvested and as we develop our commercial revenues all of that money goes back in onto the pitch and enables us to compete at higher levels. Arsenal Football Club has developed from one which certainly had a wonderful tradition and history, but we have an ambition to be one of the best clubs in the world. That is not an easy ambition to fulfil, particularly in a way that asserts your independence. We are not relying on anybody to do that for us, we are doing it on our own two feet and that is challenging.
But when you look at the steps this club has taken throughout its history, they have always been forward-looking. Where we are aiming to be is at the very top table of clubs in the world. That is a journey in which we are still on because we are not where we want to be yet. But we are making progress. The stadium is one tremendous representation of that and a major step forward. But the next major step forward is going to be driven by people in the Club and our ability to grow our commercial revenues so we can continue to compete with the very best clubs in the world for the best talent.
on looking ahead to Asia Tour…
We had an incredible experience in Asia last year. It is difficult to convey the images of what the reality was. We had thousands and thousands of fans wherever we went, really passionate fans who love this club and know more about it than people right here in Islington. It was the most amazing experience for everybody associated with the Club; the players, backroom staff and all of us in the front office who had the fortune to be on that tour. I think it also brought all of us together, so it was a wonderful experience.
We are going back to play games in Kuala Lumpur and Beijing – Beijing on the opening of the London Olympics by the way, so there is an interesting tie-in there – and then in Hong Kong. So this year’s tour is going to be even bigger and better than last year’s. We could not be more excited about going back out there and having the chance to reconnect with those fans and also having the kind of experiences we had which really pulled the team together in pre-season last year. I am sure it will have the same effect this year.
on Nigeria…
This year because we don’t have an Emirates Cup tournament, we took advantage of that free weekend to go to Nigeria, which is a place where Arsenal has a tremendous following. We have really experienced that on the visits we have made out there this year. Of course we have Kanu too, who is a legend in Nigeria and has strong Arsenal connections. From the outset it was very clear we would get a fantastic reception in Nigeria. This is not something I see us doing every year going forward – a long weekend break – but this year we had the opportunity.
In future years we will go back to the Emirates Cup format right back here in Islington. We will be celebrating 100 years in Islington [in 2013] and it is important that we don’t lose that focus. We talk a lot about the global brand because it is is very important. We have spoken about the development of our commercial revenues and connecting with our fans around the world. All modern football clubs have to do that if they want to be successful. But the roots of this club are very much here in Islington.
We have a new stadium which we were so proud to deliver in our own ancestral home and these are very important things for us. In future years we will be coming back to the Emirates Cup format where our fans will be able to see the new team unveiled in their home environment.
on working closely with Stan Kroenke…
Stan Kroenke has been on the board for a number of years and has been working very closely, especially in the last year since he assumed majority ownership, with Arsène Wenger and with me. We have had his full support in everything we have wanted to do with the football club. We have had tremendous input from him along the way – bearing in mind he owns sports teams across all kinds of different sports and has years and years of experience.
He is not just a successful businessman in his own right, but he is also a very experienced and knowledgable sports owner. That has been a fantastic asset for us to have on the board and now as a majority owner. He could not have been more supportive and his ambition is very simple – he wants this football club to win trophies. He has supported us every step of the way as we have tried to put the pieces in place to do that.
on Euro 2012…
I think it is going to be a very interesting Euros this year. We had the surprise selection of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. We think he is a tremendous talent and I really hope he gets the opportunity to show the world what he can do at the Euros. So that will be an interesting sub-plot to follow. We have players right across the tournament so we will be following it closely, not just to see if they get through in one piece or not, but also because I think this year’s tournament is very open. I think it is quite unpredictable with the way it will go and I hope as an Englishman that England can do well.
on his message for fans…
I would like to thank the supporters. This at times has been a really challenging season. This football club was placed under terrific pressure at times and I think, for a different club, there would have been the possibility that we would begin to fall apart, panic and make decisions that would have been bad. That is not what happened.
When we had our most difficult times this football club came together. The supporters, the team, the front office staff, the back office staff – they all came together. It was that strength and that unity that managed to pull our season back on track this year. My message to our fans is that we are doing everything in our power to make sure that Arsenal can challenge for trophies next year. That is what this summer is about and that is what we are focused on for next year.
We have a good team, we have a good young core of players and we need everybody involved to have belief so that we can push forward into next year and make a run at the Premier League trophy and for the Champions League. We believe we can do that.
Thanks GN5 – that is long winded as you say (emphasis on the wind)
Here is my quick translation:
Blah, blah, rhubarb, rhubarb ………..
………….. He really is the most vacuous PR type I think I’ve ever come across. 0/10 for content and originality.
…. Now Ivan, tell us something we don’t already know……
Haha, our friends at 7am kickoff share my opinion of Ivan’s empty words….
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2012/sigh-no-more-ivan/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+7amkickoff+%287amkickoff%29
Why so harsh Rasp? What do you want or expect the man to say?
IG has done very little apart from tell people what he thinks they want to hear as far as I can see TMHT.
He has joined in with (if not instigated) the corporate lying and continues to insult our intelligence by coming out with sugar coated platitudes.
Actually I’d like to know what he has been doing to earn his large salary apart from releasing the same press release time and time again (with a few details changed)
How is he and his team getting on at increasing the club’s revenue from non-footballing activities? What does he propose to do to engineer the sort of lucrative sponsorship deals that other top clubs enjoy. I am aware of the need to get money in a hurry to fund the Emirates but that time has passed.
Rasp – terrific article. Thank you very much. I absolutely love your version of FFP, simple, effective and fair, and anybody can understand it.
The figures and financial disparities between teams are shocking, and yet we are competing at the highest level and doing very well indeed, despite the fact that prices of trophies might be out of our reach.
Just one more note on the subject of Euros – many clubs and restaurants in Krakow have signs ‘Naked Englishmen are not allowed in’ 🙂
I have seen those signs about 5 years ago, but apparently there are in most of half decent establishments now
Hi evonne, I hope your countrmen do you proud at the Euros – I drew Poland in my firm’s sweepstake 🙂
Hi Rasp 🙂 I don’t think they will, but as long as they give their best, I’d be proud.
I truly enjoyed your stats tables, well compiled!
You know what i hate? “rumours” about players who “hint” about Arsenal being their next destination – Hint? how the hell do they do that? do the smile and hum “go west” under their breathe? do the say “i will join a team… that wears red… and white… and isn’t stoke… or athletic bilboa… they have a manager from france…. and other than that NO COMMENT”
maybe journalists just don’t fully grasp the meaning of the word…
great article btw… we would kill the club if we tried to compete financially
Thanks evonne, the accountants amongst us know that my conclusions were an over-simplification of the true meaning of the figures, but they do give a clear picture of the way we choose to do business.
Hi D98, I was very careful to qualify any suggestion that we should spend more with the words “will we increase the amount we are prepared to pay for top players as our revenue increases?” No-one should want us to spend money we don’t have, we’ve seen what that has done to the likes or Rangers.
Rasp – the opposite, it is the accountants amongst us that complicate things 🙂
Hi Rasp, thanks for a fantastic post. 🙂
It is really good to see it all explained so well in your detailed post. You and GiE are the experts of these sort of posts.
If we take the average of wage bill and net spend on players we should be hovering around the 11/12 position, but we do a lot better than that, mainly because of the system of footie we play and the incredible experience and nous of Arsene and his staff.
I like your idea to balance a little bit better the spend on salaries with player purchases, and to use future increases in income on buying the more expensive players, in order to compete a bit more/ make the last step up.
I also really liked Terry’s comment:
‘ The biggest problem, and my eternal gripe, which ime sure bores people is that the ones that are on the cusp of been great players are lured away for bigger bucks. If we overcome this catch 22 we will more than compete, in fact i think we will be the best.’
Whatever way we look at it, it is not easy to get our strategy absolutely right, and it will be interesting to see what will happen during the summer. Excellent food for thought Rasp. 🙂
E va va vonne
I thought the sign said, ” Naked Englishman are not allowed in, unless accompanied with a Pole ” ! 😉
Hi D98, 🙂
Long time no sea, as the fisherman said to the ripe herring. 🙂
I understand your irritation, altho’ I suspect these ‘rumours’ come from two sources.
One, source is the lazy/devious journos trying to get you to read their papers, and, second is the agents of players when they are trying to play one club off against another. (“Arsenal are interested in “x” so you better get in quick before they buy him”).
Ignore them both.
What I dislike, especially as it reeks of the way Cesc and his agent played Arsenal last year, is the way Vertonghen and his shitty agent are specifically trying to help the Spuds negotiate his transfer fee down, (bigger salary for veronghen?) by saying he is only interested in Spurs, and has absolutely no interest in moving anywhere else, especially not to Arsenal. Apparently he has Spurs DNA, having been a cockerel in another life.
[He also forgets to mention that Arsenal have made no attempt to sign the b*stard because we have better CBs already!]
Rasp, i cannot agree with your indignation of Gazidis. The Club are working to improve our commercial activities as witnessed by our trips abroad and are no doubt working behind the scenes to procure the best deals possible when the emirates deals expire. He also came in to the Club when we were undergoing transition in form of ownership and seems to have a good working relationship with Wenger. Besides, hes a South African Greek, so leave him alone. hahahaha
Rasp,
It’s sad that you would think that way about the third most influential person at Arsenal. In the corporate world you always need a talking head, and that he is, but he’s also very smart and experienced.
Like most goings on at Arsenal everything is done behind closed doors and corporate business is no exception.
The evidence is that, most likely, none of us had heard about Indesit, Betsson or Malta Guinness prior to this interview, and we have no idea what they are bringing to the table with them. We also have no details about the re-newed deal with Citroen, but it’s positive that they want to continue to support Arsenal..
Maybe, having worked on the executive of U.S. companies, I’m a little more understanding/tolerant of corporate PR.
Throwing stones at him for being an articulate spokesman seems a little unfair as he is a big part of the team that is creating the financial foundation for the “new and improved” Arsenal.
Hi TA, the most successful businesses evolve as the environment in which they operate changes. There is no doubt we were well ahead of the game when we built the new training ground and then the Emirates (for which the majority of the credit has to go to AW).
I’m waiting to see how we will adapt to the new polarised financial dynamic. I really feel we should be the ‘best of the rest’ as I said in the article. We have all the pieces in place except perhaps for the commercial deals.
Hi GN5, I take on board what you are saying and it is true that the club try to keep everything behind closed doors. But can you cite any particularly good deals the club has brokered since IG joined us?
I don’t actually think being vacuous is articulate – just crass. I could take it more if he was a football man, but he’s not and yet he chooses to talk about football in the way most Americans would (I know he’s not an American TMHT, but he worked over there) – we are just a bit too cynical to swallow all that stuff.
Rasp,
I appreciate your irritation at the PR ‘puff’ from Gazidis.
He certainly was addressing key areas at length to give a positive spin, and no doubt many good things really are happening behind the scenes and will eventually come to fruition.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Firstly, he is employed to do that job, and would be let go by Kroenke if he mis-stepped in what he was saying in public, hence the ‘vacuous’ blandishments.
Secondly, there will be many, like your goodself, who would prefer less of the guff and more concrete ‘news’, and who could blame you? 🙂
It’s a balancing act – and Gazidis is good at it in the context of his job.
GN5, as someone who has “worked on the executive of U.S. companies, and is a little more understanding/tolerant of corporate PR.” …. tell me truthfully, didn’t you read the first paragraph and recognise it for what it is? 😛
Bloody hell RA if we’re paying him that sort of money to send out press releases like that he’s a very lucky man. I thought his job was to manage the commercial side of the business and the PR spin was just a tool to keep the masses happy!
Rasp, As I said we know nothing about the new deal with Citroen or the new deal with Indesit, Betsson, or Malta Guinness.
I don’t think you have to know about football to be a Chief Executive, most CEO’s know little about their companies product but a whole bunch about ROI.
This is not to say that I think he’s doing a great job but more to say that I cannot see too much that he has done wrong.
We know Spurs can’t afford Vert plus a centre forward until they sell a few. Problem is Bale has been found out (rather quickly), Fan de Faart is injury prone, and Modric isn’t that sought after since they gave him a pay rise.
They need a front man and they can’t afford Adebayor.
GN5 maybe he should employ someone with a bit more gravitas to talk about the football side of things.
It took the weekly booing of the “today’s attendance is” announcement at the Emirates to finally stop that silly nonsense.
GLiC – 🙂 No, it’s all because of stag parties; English lads go there, get off their head and start taking their clothes off (??) There were so many incidents of Englishmen running naked on the street of Krakow, that drastic measures had to be taken 🙂
Rasp’ It’s exactly what I would expect from a spokesman in his position. You will never hear what they “really” think as they are accustomed/trained to give the most positive “spin” possible to any negative situation. It’s par for the course.
His job is not to score goals it’s to create the financial infrastructure/base where it’s possible for to be able to afford the players who can score goals.
I never said it was his job to score goals, in my eyes he regularly scores own goals. I’d be more than happy if he just stuck to trying to increase revenue and left the football talk to others better qualified.
Rasp,
The most qualified would be Arsene but part of the reason for AFC hiring a CEO was to allow him to concentrate on the football side of the business. So allowing AW to do that is a big positive for us so I guess we have to accept or blah blah the fact that there is also a downside.
Fair enough GN5. I am aware that I may be a bit over-sensitive, I’ve always had a problem with those who try to manipulate, or worse still insult the intelligence of others.
Rasp,
It may not be that you are over sensitive – It may well be that I’m overly accepting or accustomed to spin doctor’s.
Haha GN5, I did think that IG’s version of the ‘truth’ is OK where you’re concerned because you recognise it for what it is, whereas others may swallow it hook, line and sinker.
Having said that, if it makes them feel better about the club then no harm done I suppose unless the day comes and they have a lightbulb moment, and they say “hang on a minute, was that nice friendly Mr Gazidis bull****ting me?” 😆
I’m off out now to pick up the grandchildren – I’ll be back when most of you are in bed.
Rasp
That’s a super, super read. Great use of stats (notwithstanding your disclaimer 🙂 )
We are a Top Club (Champions League every year).
We pay wages like a Top Club.
But we pay transfer fees like a bottom three club.
Which makes it remarkable that we remain a Top Club.
It’s a miraculous achievement and I don’t feel that the manager, the club (and even Mr Gazidis) get sufficient credit for it.
I have lots of thoughts about the IG discussion, but I think I’ll save them for a Post.
evonne
I did a “Euro 2012 Pool” yesterday (predict the results of all the games, right though to the final).
I have Poland qualifying from the group… 🙂
Mind you, what do I know? 😦
Nothing Rocky, Greece are gonna beat them 5-0, they need the win bonus. Anyway, ime off before Evonne turns up. hahahaha
Finally, some common sense written about Gazidis and his role at the club.
The difference between men and apes is that we use our thumbs.
The difference between Le Grove and AA is that most people here are capable of comprehending the role of a CEO.
Rocky,
A “Euro 2012 Pool” eh?
Do you mean you filled in your wall chart, you old bless?
Rocky – really? Fantastic! And then Poland are going to terrorise England; we meet in every international competition, so England have to qualify too.
And then I am in trouble coz I like Ox much more than I like Chezny
Terry – are you Greek?
Nice one Rasp. I knew we were the best!
IG Q& A.
http://www.ashburtongrove.co.uk/2012/06/live-ivan-gazidis-q-and-at-ashburton.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AshburtonGrove+%28AshburtonGrove.co.uk%29
Haha Micky
It’s 20 dollars to enter – but I don’t know how many people are doing it. Maybe it’s just me – Rocky No Mates 😦
Evonne
I remember Jan Tomaszewski breaking English hearts back in 1973…
I will be your friend, Rocky – No – mates! 🙂
(that will be $20, please).
Rocky – how could I forget? Mates at work reminded me every time our countries met. And now Chezny is going to do the same
Er… I’m not sure you’ve correctly grasped the concept Redders 🙂
I thought your comments earlier in today’s discussion were excellently reasoned, by the way.
Sterling effort Rasp….very informative and I don’t understand why you regret it being so meaty. Its perfect for your audience…see LB’s 6.42 which points us towards blog demographics.
My first thought was surprise at us being 19th on net spend, which is silly cos I’ve seen similar stats before. I expected someone to pick up the split bewteen sales and costs that heavily skew our net spend. I think that DidIt fellow mentioned Ronaldo’s hefty sale but in our case the skew is due to the simple fact that we buy low and sell high, with tremendous success.
How else could we have the squad we have for so little net expenditure. ..??
The list of bargain buys is endless, its just a shame that the list of our sales isn’t too far behind. We’re all for moving on the ones we don’t want anymore….
Rocky
Brian Clough said before the game that Tomaszewski was a clown. That came back to haunt him !.
Maybe a post on comments that came back to haunt people.
Alan Hansen, ” you`ll never win anything with kids “.
Bill Nicholson 1961, ” In the future games will be seen in colour and this club will rule for over 50 years “.
Wayne Bridge on phone, ” John, any chance of giving my wife a lift home, I`m stuck at work, cheers mate “.
Harry Redknapp , Sending cheques signed with a paw print.
Haha GliC
Did Bill Nic really say that? His team look the same whether it’s colour or b&w.
In a similar vein:
“Why do people want to solve any conflict with a fight? As a pacifist I find that incredible…” Joey Barton
SS,
I think you might find that the inconsequential RedA was the one who mentioned the weighting needed to adjust for one off sales of players such as Ronaldo (vis a vis) Manure when comparing and quantifying the disparities between the clubs, as well as implying that the net and gross spend on transfers needed further analysis by showing the actual Manure spend on players in 2009 and 2010 as an example, and not the mighty Didit.
Your mistake is however understandable given his prowess as both an accountant and mathematician, whereas I am clearly a klutz! 🙂
Glicster,
Was BillyNic also the one who said ” for those of you watching in black and white, Man United are the ones playing in red”?
Nitey Nite!
Sorry Rocky , I can only vouch for Clough and Hansen, but I wouldn`t bet against the other 3 ! 🙂
Nite Redders.
To wade in on the Gazidis debate.. The commercial department a few years ago said they had a 5 year plan to boost income (probably until the mega deals could be done in 2014) Since then we’ve seen an official beer sold at games, Indesit sponsor us, Malta Nigeria (no not the countries), Betsson, even Thomas Cook I think joined us in that timeframe. We’ve also renewed with Citroen.. I know a lot of those things were said by Gazidis in that interview, but the point remains, this sort of increase, cannot be achieved overnight. I think it’s too early to judge whether Gazidis and co are doing a good job, but I’m fairly optimistic about it based on the deals we are doing. I also think Kroenke’s and Gazidis’ expertise will lie in maximising a sports teams commercial income. However, also bear in mind that it has to be done ‘The Arsenal Way’. I would HATE if we became a marketing machine like ManU. The reason I don’t support ManU is because it is so annoying to be bombarded with commercial stuff and talk of how we are the best so support us. So..with that in mind.. I think Arsenal are doing a decent enough job, and on the plus side, have much scope for growth.
Also, maybe it’s just me being naively optimistic, but Gazidis saying our aim is to win and..I don’t know..Just the way he said it.. It seems different from his usual spin. Oh and I know its spin. No worries on that count. I guess I think that the club must realise that it’s brand value will go down if they have a repeat summer. It will be rflected in their balance sheets in terms of merchandising, season tickets, and probably also their commercial deals. So, even if they are only interested in the numbers, I think (or hope – can’t decide which) they will have to pay attention to the football this summer.
The figures in your article show we do very well to compete, and I’m in agreement with you that the way our wages our structured is to do with keeping our young players during the stadium move, as well as the opinion that time has come to gradually move away from that. We’re not far. The 19 point gap isn’t insurmountable. I have a good feeling about next season. But then, that’s always true.
Hi Shard,
Thanks for your response. I look forward to the new deals you describe showing a big plus in our accounts balance sheet next time they are made public.
It is undeniable that the club were very unlucky that the slump in the property market severely reduced the income from the Highbury development and that led to us trying to raise capital in the short term. As you say, the renegotiation of some of those deals should take place in the next year or two.
I am happy for IG to talk us all to death with details of what fantastic commercial deals he has brokered, but I am tired of the same old spin.
If he’s done as well as you say, hopefully we will reinforce the squad adequately, but reading between the lines, I am tempted to deduce that Podolski IS our big summer signing – whether RvP stays or goes.
Rasp
Lets just hope you’re wrong about that. This summer is important, though I don’t pretend to know who we should sign. Big name or not, doesn’t really matter as long as they are what we need.
Spin IS boring, and that’s sort of the point. Anything interesting or informative tends to get twisted around by the media. And the media has been terrible in its reporting on Arsenal for years now. So..Spin doesn’t really bother me. Gazidis can keep on spinning as much as he wants, because ultimately that is irrelevant. I really think 2014 is what we are waiting for as a club. Or maybe 2015 to get the cash from the new deals in.. I don’t know. But we’ll see how things go.
Good points Shard. Especially about the role of the media and why all major organizations resort to spin.
Great post.
I think you are being a bit hard on Gazidis Rasp. I don’t have much of an opinion on him but how many clubs have face to face meetings with fan groups? Apparently he was at the meeting with the AST (who are quite hostile) well after he was supposed to answering questions on a one to one basis.
We are tied in to substandard (by todays levels) Commercial deals that will change in 2014 (I think) Getting the money up front was important to fund the best and most profitable club stadium in the country (Possibly in Europe)
He also said that we had a flat wage structure and admitted this was not working and the club will move away from it to help fund the big wage players.
As far as Robin being 29 and wanting trophies. Was he desperate for trophies when he was on the treatment table for all those years?
Morning.
A quick perusal of the Newsnow site came up with nothing of interest, except that…
Mr Usamov has bought a Wide Bodied jet 😀 😀
Big Raddy,when my waist expands,I buy bigger pants.
Usmanov,he just buys a bigger everything!!
Oh to have that kind of money.
Morning Raddy
Quality research 🙂
One final thought on IG,
As long as Society/Fans think they have a “Right” to inside information, then we’ll have The Spinners.
I remember someone on LeGrove saying that as a fan, a ST holder and shreholder, he had a right to know.
No you don’t.
Scott,
Talking of bigger pants, here’s an amusing story.
One of my brothers spends eight months of the year in Nepal. For the last 20 odd years, he’s used the same taylor in Kathmandu for trousers etc.
One year, so as not to offend my brother by using the word “fatter”, the taylor said: “Ah, I see that this year Saab has got even stronger”.
As to getting stronger … I blame Gravity. I think my liver has slipped and caused an increase in waist girth.
I tell my missus I’m just muscling up…never believes me though.
Love the tale of the tailor!!
Raddy 🙂
Right, that’s the early morning session done for me as I have an early blast off. Later Gunners.
OK, you lot, I’m pleased you’re happy with Gazidis 😛 . He’s just said what you all want to hear (again)and he’s done that for commercial reasons – which is his job. I don’t believe he should talk about football stuff in the way he does unless he’s a coach or the owner of the club. If he’s a spokesman, who is he speaking for? …….. Kroenke’s mouthpiece…. almost certainly. It’s just spin, go back to last summer and you will read exactly the same sort of empty words.
What did IG have to say about last summer’s transfer debacle – was that all a result of his slick planning? Did we buy Park so he could score vital goals for us?
Gazidis’ statement about the talks with RvP was a spin way of preparing us for the fact that he is leaving.
The last time Robin signed a contract he said all the same things …. I want to win things with Arsenal. I want Arsenal to compete at the top etc etc. and IG/Arsenal assured him that would be the case … little wonder he doesn’t believe it this time.
My best guess is that RvP said something like this “I don’t want to talk about money, I want to talk about ambition. None of the promises you made me last time came to fruition so I’m going to go to the Euros and then consider my options.
He did say that Cesc refused to play….people are choosing to disbelieve that too. So you kind of wonder why he bothers turning up and answering questions if people won’t take what he says at face value.
GiE – who said that Cesc refused to play? GM?
Hi GiE, do you take everything he says at face value?
Morning Rasp, our team plays tomorrow 🙂 come on Polska!!
Morning evonne, I am an honorary Pole for the duration of the Euros 😛
Speaking of IG, did anyone here read what IG said about Usmanov apparently wanting to offer some financial aid and yet the board (mainly Stan) refuse to even consider that? Usmanov is a die hard Arsenal fan, is even richer than a certain Roman Abramovich and I believe is just as passionate about football as he is while Stan on the other hand who owns many other sports clubs around the world is just treating our great club as another business. How many times have he actually came to games at the emirates? I for one, would much rather Usmanov being the major shareholder rather than Stan kroenke.
I’m a Dutchman for the Euro’s. And a German if BFG plays, a Frenchman if Kos plays, a Pole if Chesney plays, a Czech if TR plays, a Russian if AA plays, a Dane if Nick plays
And an Englishman if Theo & Ox play.
As usual. I haven’t read that. Can you find the source?
You’re a Euro tart Raddy 😆
“Usmanov is a die hard Arsenal fan”
Well if we wanted proof that Usmanov reads this blog that comment is proof enough for me.
Once upon a time…………..
Hi LB, I don’t think Usamov is a diehard fan and I don’t want him doing an Abramovich on Arsenal. We can compete the way we are if we shift emphasis slightly more towards football.
Raddy and Rasp 🙂 🙂 ooohh, I do miss footy…
As usual – I agree about Usmanov. The rumours about his past (prison term) are not clear to me and under the communist regime they were not clear to anybody. For what I know, he is a decent billionnaire.
….. New post …….
Here it is.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9315468/Alisher-Uzmanov-warned-that-he-will-not-be-joining-Arsenals-board-by-chief-executive-Ivan-Gazidis.html
From what I read, Usmanov has been a fan for 7 years(?) and one things for sure, he goes to games much more frequently than Stingy Stan who hardly ever goes to the emirates, and that at least shows a certain level of dedication and commitment to the club.
[…] […]
It seems to take you a really long time to realise that wages cost a lot more than net transfer fees which really aren’t that much except for Man City and Chelsea. Also you don’t seem to account for inflation (either relative say to Premier League revenues or to any sensible UK measure). In summary, try again.
I just appreciate your effort you put towards The Gunners this shows me that I ain’t the only die hard gooner thanks bro…..
Iam south sudan by nationality at city juba
Very educative site, I have ever seen.