Does a billionaire owner/major shareholder have a moral obligation to spend big on his football club? And, should owners of a football club be allowed to make a profit? For a while now, I have been reading comments by a number of ‘Kroenke-critical’ AA’ers, who believe that he should be spending a lot more of the club’s and his own money and, to a certain extent, I can see where they are coming from. Just to be clear: I am neither a ‘Kroenke-critic’, nor a ‘Kroenke-supporter’.
Our club needs (an) owner(s). Somebody needs to take responsibility in managing our club and achieve sporting successes in such a way that our short-term and long-term financial positions are secured. This is mightily important to all those who really care about the club and we should not take good club management for granted: it is a fine art. Running a football club is a highly risky business. Income streams can fluctuate strongly from one season to the next whilst costs are difficult to control/manage downwards in the short run.
At Arsenal, we need clever and experienced business people, with both a passion and in-depth understanding of football, at the helm of our club. Preferably, they also have an Arsenal-history and an Arsenal-heart. We are almost entirely owned by major Shareholders Kroenke and Usmanov. The latter possesses just under 30% of the club’s shares, and the former owns the best part of 70%.
Kroenke is not an Arsenal-man and neither is Usmanov. It appears that Kroenke has a more calculated business approach to our club, whilst Usmanov seems less interested in the business-side of Arsenal, but would be more prepared to spend big in order to achieve success for the club. It is not clear whether Usmanov would dig into his own pockets or whether he would be looking at entering a number of (risky) commercial endeavours in order to free up money to invest in new (world class) players and their wages. Obviously, I do not know any of the two and my above assumptions are purely based on a number of articles I have read over the last few years. However, it is clear that Kroenke, as the major shareholder, is leading the club at the moment whilst Usmanov remains in the background.
Silent, calculated Stan
Describing Kroenke as somebody with a calculated business approach, is not necessary a bad thing. Of course, I would prefer him to have a Gooner heart and past, who is happy to spend a reasonable amount of his own money on the club without the need to earn it back again in a hurry. He is a multi-billionaire, so he can afford it. But, are fans right to lambast him for not putting his hands in his deep pockets in order to spend similarly to Citeh’s and Chavs’ owners, in order to compete in this new footie world order? Is it wrong Kroenke wants to run a financially sound football-business, and maybe even wants to take a profit out of the business, say in the region of 5-8% of turnover?
I would not want us to become like Chelsea and Man City, and I am hopeful that UEFA new financial rules will put a stop to clubs being sugar-daddied with excessive amounts of oil-dollars to success. It is wrong in every sense. I am fully aware that Kroenke is very unlikely to want to be the major shareholder forever and that his strategy is based on selling his shares at some point in the future, whenever that is, at a decent profit. I do not like this of course, as we do not know who he will sell to and what would happen next with Arsenal, but there is nothing that can be done about it. Almost every football club is subjected to the same level of uncertainty.
Arsenal winning cups and financial success for Kroenke are closely linked
But one thing I know: there are a few benefits attached to having an owner who is keen to run a sustainable business and who will want to sell it one day in the future, if and when the time is right / the price is right for him. The biggest benefit is the need for such an owner to look after his club, both financially and in terms of sporting successes. What’s more: there is a strong interdependence between financial success, sporting successes and long-term value of the club – and it is this fine balance which I am pinning my hopes on. Kroenke might not have an Arsenal heart as such, but without any doubt, he will want to look after his investment. Selling a few key players every year could easily be seen as one of Kroenke’s ways of making good money out of our club, but he also knows that this could come at a high cost to Arsenal and therefore to himself. He needs sporting success in order to achieve financial success for his considerable investment – the market value of his shares being his biggest concern – and selling Arsenal’s key assets on the pitch is not going to help him in the mid to long run. I believe Arsenal had to sell players in the last few years in order to balance the books, but last summer’s sales of Fabregas and Nasri were not borne out of necessity anymore: other factors forced Kroenke’s hand this time round.
Some have argued that he is only interested in finishing in the top-4, so he can be in the lucrative Champions League, and that he will invest only as much as is needed to achieve this. However, if Arsenal were to get a reputation of only ever being able to just finish in the top-4, it would become commercially less attractive, in terms of enticing profitable sponsorships and advertising. Furthermore, Arsenal would be losing a part of its fans base, both in terms of season ticket holders and their worldwide TV audience, with further negative impact in terms of shirt sales etc. It would also be very risky to try to do just enough in order to stay in the top-four, as the short and long-term consequences could be very dire for him if Arsenal were to fail. Kroenke needs Arsenal to be successful: not just in terms of taking part in the CL but also in terms of winning trophies.
Does Kroenke have a moral obligation to invest a lot more money in Arsenal though?
The above gives me every reason to be optimistic about our future. It pays for Kroenke to invest in the club and sporting success: Arsenal winning trophies rather sooner than later is a necessity for him. However, by trying to achieve this in a financially sustainable way, he could be taking too much risk and, given the stiff ‘new world’ competition he has to deal with, he might fail and we might end up with winning nothing for years to come. Which raises the question again: should he be spending more of the club’s/ his own money in order to optimise our chances to win trophies?
I don’t think I can say he has a moral obligation to spend his own money in our club, or that he should never take a reasonable profit out of the business. He is the major shareholder and carries the biggest financial risks on his shoulders. We as fans, in particular the STH and those who go regularly to away-games, spend a hefty sum of our money on the club, but our financial risks are relatively small compared to Kroenke’s: we can chose to no longer spend any money on Arsenal in relatively short time, but Kroenke is in a different position.
Ideally, I would like him to spend more (but not crazy) money in order to compete better in the next few years, but if he does not want to do it, I will respect it. However, he is morally obliged to:
1. Look after the club in terms of managing short-term and long-term financial risks;
2. Use the club’s financial resources and commercial opportunities to the maximum, with the aim of providing all the pre-requisites for sporting successes on the field (taking into account point 1);
3. Represent our club as best as he can and always aim to achieve as high as we can (in terms of sporting successes), taking into account points 1 & 2.
4. Make sure he puts the best available people into the key positions at our club.
For me, the jury is out as to whether Kroenke is doing the very best for the club with regards to points 1 to 4, and I am looking forward to hearing your views on how you think Silent Stan has been performing since he became the major shareholder a year ago, and whether you believe he is morally obliged to spend more of the club’s and his personal money on Arsenal.
TotalArsenal.
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very well written post TA, love a good TA post for the arvo.
Couldn’t agree move with your points. Nothing can be judged until time passes and we see how it all unfolds.
We need to be fighting on all fronts (and i def think we will be), so we can milk the most from sponsors when it’s time to negotiate deals.
I wouldn’t mind a few more $$$ being thrown around in transfer deals, but that’s just me being greedy, and i know slim to none about arsenals finances.
I trust Arsene to lead us in the right direction. How could i not? You pull signings like jenks, ryo and co out of nowhere you can’t not love the man.
Just out of curiosity does anyone on AA own an Arsenal share?
If he spent big it would no doubt be in the form of a loan which we have to repay, same for Usmanov. Moral obligation or not, I’d rather not have that hanging over our future. As a side note, a multi billionaire with morals seems something of a contradiction, unless it’s remorse.
Arsene Wenger as the coach of Arsenal FC picks the team to play
on any given matchday,not Stan Kroenke ,Usmanov or Gazidis,so
the manager Arsene must take most of the blame for his mediocre
players performances,week in and out?
Great work TA, thank you.
I certainly do not think an owner has a moral duty to chuck his own cash into the club beyond buying it, and in many ways I hope he does not. I really dislike the idea of becoming one man’s play thing. I am not aware that the Hillwoods ever put in any money, and the club has aways been superbly run.
I am not sure that SK needs trophies to secure a greater return on his investment. He bought at 11k per share, whicc are now trading at 16k. That, without silverware, represents a truly massive return should he wish to cash in.
Having read Kelsey’s link to the swissramble, it is clear to me that the club has massive opportunites to increase revenue through sponsorship deals Even here, pitch success does not appear imperative given deals achieved by Spuds and Pool.
Run out od space, so I cn’t see what I’m typing…
Samuel,
When you say mediocre, we’re now fourth, gunning for third, after our worst start ever.
John,
A multibillionaire with morals? How about the billions Bill Gates puts into African Education. Just saying.
I gather Robin Hood was quite rich in terms of turnover. Seemed like a good lad nonetheless!
Aslong as the football/playing side of the club is being run at its maximum financial level without putting the club at risk then that is all we can ask. In recent years it’s fair to say that hasn’t been the case due to the need to earn money from player sales to help fund the stadium move.
If we can maximise any potential sponsorship deals in the future then obviously this should put an end to letting top players go and we can finally start building a trophy winning team without having to take a hit every year when a top player leaves.
Hopefully, RvP will re-sign and we can stop this cycle at the end of this season.
TA – very good post and an excellent choice of topic, well done TA!!
the answer is No, he doesn’t. However, football is like any other business, if you don’t invest wisely, you won’t succeed
Samuel – get a life mate! Calling our Club mediocre?! Bloody cheek
TA. Interesting post. It is only in recent years that off-field business has come to the fans attention. I knew about the Hill-Woods because they lived down the road from me, but I could not have told you who owned Spurs or any other team.
Kroenke would have bought his shares having assessed AFC as being undervalued and a good investment. He is proving to be right, even in these trophy-less years. If he and his team are intelligent enough to buy the shares then they are surely going to ensure onfield success – without it their investment shrivels.
I give him the benefit of the doubt. I do not want him to donate huge sums for transfers – just a couple of hundred mill 🙂
@mickydidit: you’re right, I should have formulated that a bit more careful. Can we agree on ‘majority of multibiljonaires’? Maybe I’m just a bit afraid of someone like Usmanov at our club.
This ‘friendly’ against Holland is a disgrace.
The likes of Parker, Cahill, Cole going up against RvP when we are all fighting for a top 4 finish is a slight conflict of interests in my opinion.
If he gets crocked by one of these tossers then I’m going to be very fucking unhappy!
Morning Oz, yes Arsene always seems to be able to find the gems. As TMHT said many times before, the key thing now is to keep hold of them when they start hitting their peak.
HI Micky, I am no expert at share prices etc, but the price currently being paid for a small number of ‘floating shares’ is probably not indicative for the price of each individual share if Kroenke were to decide to sell all his shares now. I guess the value of the those few floating shares is so high because they could lead to Usmanov getting above the 30% treshold, which makes them highly desirable and therefore more expensive? Maybe RA, GiE, Sharkey or DanDan can give their views?
Agreed SSG.
AW should have done what SAF always does and found strains etc in all 13 of our squad playing tonight.
Well done Total, all this purse strings stuff !, I preferred It when you were pulling the strings in midfield against Norwich stiffs ! 🙂
I dont like getting into the finance stuff ( reading swiss rambler yesterday frizzled my brain ) as It`s out of my league but all I will say Is (and It might be crap), I thought most people taking on a business usually speculate to accumulate but what do I know !
Just my opinion. To make the Emirates more colourfull !, another minimum criteria should be, you must wear the colours, otherwise no entry, If it`s cold , tough, you shiver like I did ,I always wear the colours, a sea of Red and White, nothing looks better !.
Total,
I keep meaning to ask you this, (and maybe chas can bring up the video) What did you think of Steve McClaren`s attempt at speaking your language many moons ago, did It annoy you or did you cringe but still piss your pants like me ? 🙂
John,
100% agree. There are good rich people and bad rich people. Good poor people and bad poor people.
I’m also completely in agreement with you over Usmanov. I’m terrified of being owned by him.
Well apparently RvP didn’t finish training last night due to a groin strain. Hopefully he will milk it so he doesn’t have to play, but I think he loves his football too much for that!
I dont like the rumours on newsnow that RVP has a groin strain !. 😦
GliC,
Love that rumour. How convenient that he will not be able to play tonight 🙂
Apparently Rosicky hurt his back on sunday. Now I realise there was no sign of it, but these things happen. Oh, and the Cszechs have a game tonight I believe.
Even though it is England against Holland, one of the best friendlies imaginable, I agree with Slim that the time is a disgrace. Such a game between very important, and probably decisive, football PL weekends?!
Holland will be lining up a very strong team and RvP will be one of the senior players, rather having all the weight on his shoulders. He will be clever enough to avoid the tackles and I am sure Pearce and Van Marwijk will have a clear agreement about the level of combat/tackles etc.
It looks like Kevin Strootman will start next to Raddy’s favourite, Van Bommel, in the centre of midfield tonight. For what I have seen of Strootman, he is a very promising multi-skilled midfielder in the mould of Fabregas and would probably fit very well into Arsenal, at some point in the future. You should check him out tonight.
Cszechs..who be they?
@ Slim
didn’t they report RVP possibly not playing as he went off in the last 10mins of training with a groin problem? Hopefully it’s just a mixture of him being to important to arsenal and for Euros. Play bloody kuyt and get him injured
it is ridiculous to be playing friendlies this time of the year. Hopefully verm and rosicky are just being rested also
There are very few things AW could learn from SAF, but the art of the mysterious international week injury is definately one of them. Looks like the wait is over 🙂
oops bit behind the 8-ball so it seems.
@ TA
is affelay playing?
Morning, very interesting piece as usual TA.
I am in full agreement with your general conclusions.
If Stan injecting his own monmey but in reality that means saddling Arsenal with debt then no thanks and like you, I infinitely prefer Stan’s approach than what we expect Usamove to bring.
One thing I would like to see from Stan is a greater onus of accountability from his employees. If Gazidis doesn’t get us the top notch deals when contracts are up for renewal he should be shown the door. Similarly I have heard that Dick Laws has made a couple of cock-ups and should be in the last chance saloon.
agreed rasp, the point i was trying to make yet failed miserably. Especially considering Gazidas brought in a crack team last season to get things done, so come sponsorship time they should bring the best to the club. If not a lot of questions need to be asked of them
Hi oz, sorry if I repeated something you’ve already said. I’m really busy this morning and haven’t had a chance to read all the comments.
Gazidis is a business man not a football man and I don’t think he understands the british supporter’s mentality which I would imagine is quite different to the states.
Unfortunately I find his slck but transparent one dimensional PR as very annoying – but if he gets us really good sponsorship deals then he’s the man for the job.
fab post TA,
i find the financial side fascinating even moreso with our knack of competing without sugardaddy investment – makes me proud.
I don’t think he has to put the cash in, he’s bought in to the sustainable idea, that was what attracted him i’m sure and so thats fair enough.
An improvement in commercial activities and we will tick over nicely, until then i wonder who will leave this summer to provide the 15m needed – Mr VanPersie.
Not at all Rasp, you hit the nail on the head. I just meant that’s what i was thinking but getting it on the keyboard is another story. cheers
It hurts me as a true loving fun of Arsenal far away back here in Ghana.The pending current setbacks of our darling club is disheartening in the sense that,Mr Kroenke as the major shareholder should compare Arsenal to other big clubs in europe on how they achieve their goals by investing in players and other managerial aspects.He should change his way of thinking about making profit out of the club rather,spending should be his priority.You can never have a competitive squad without improving on the players you have by adding new players who are enough to compete rather than selling the few talents that you already have,this will never help. We supporters of Arsenal here in Ghana are looked down by supporters of other big clubs in europe,so we are counting on the authorities to turn things better for us and for entire club in the short and long-term.
Interesting post TotalA – it borders on the age old question raised by that totty in a Foootball boardroom Karen Brady: “football is a business just like selling beans” or words to that effect.
As an aside, fresh from getting a red card in the NLD Scott Parker has been named England captain, suppose he follows in the footsteps of his predecessor for coming into the job ignominiously.
PS – @ Oz, Affellay is currently long term injured, not due back till the summer.
Hi Oz, Affelay is still recovering from the serious injury he sustained at the start of the season, as far as I know. Tonight Holland are likely to start with RvP upfront, Sneijder behind him, and Kuijt and Robben on the wings – Van Bommel and Strootman in centre of midfield – Heitinga and Mathijsen as CB’s and Boulahrouz and Pieters as FB’s.
I just listened to a interview with RvP (in Dutch unfortunately so no use to attach it). He was asked whether he regrets not having won more trophies with Arsenal. His answer was fantastic: I have three wonderful trophies at home…. The reporter asked him which are they, to which he answered: I have two beautiful daughters and a beautfiul wife. The reporter then asked whether Robin felt he had become ‘part of the furniture’ at Arsenal, to which RvP said: don’t forget I have been with Arsenal for 8 years – I am a Gunner. The reporter then asked whether he was going to stay at Arsenal then, to which Robin answered: ‘At the end of the season I am going to join Wenger for a cup of coffee, which we do more often, just to talk about things’. He seemed totally relaxed and not cagey at all – it really made me feel he is going to stay at Arsenal (if it is up to him and he is offered a decent contract of course).
Hi Tommy, as per my last comment, I think he is going to stay 🙂
Chary, is that true Parker as captain? Bloody hell, they are scraping the bowl!
Thanks for the translation TA
What a classy fellow he is.
Abdul, there is no reason to be looked down on, unless you let them. You are supporting one of the finest clubs in the world with a great past and a bright future ahead. The football we play is second to none in the UK and in the top-3 in Europe. New silverware will come our way again, and in the meantime we should enjoy the footie on display.
Yeah TotalA, the spud as England captain, but looking at who the manager is, Stuart “Psycho” Pearce, it’s not surprising that he chose a limited, uncreative midfield clogger as his captain.
Thanks TA, well written piece. My preference would be for the club to be owned by a fans’ co-operative in the way Barca are, or for the Bundesliga system of regulated mixed ownership. But assuming that won’t be a possibility anytime soon, having the a benign billionaire owner appears to be our best bet.
Instinctively, I don’t want an owner to spend lots of cash on the playing side of the club – it’s just a form of subsidy and subsidies in the end weaken rather than strengthen (look at Leeds and Portsmouth). There is of course a lot to be said for the “speculate to accumulate” line of thinking, and our owners always need to bear that in mind and not be too narrow and pedantic about the club being fully self-financing. It should be self-financing, but just as I have a mortgage in order that I can afford to own a house, so a football club should be able sensibly to finance investment so long as in the end it funds everything it does from its revenues. Broadly, I like the regime’s conservative (note the small “c”) approach on Arsenal’s finances, which the half-year results showed to be pretty healthy, but I do worry that we don’t deploy our resources to best effect. That needs to be tightened up.
I’m confident the club will secure good commercial deals over the next few years: as is recognised, the long-term deals signed pre-Ashburrton Grove were a necessity (and by the way, were, at the time they were signed, lauded as being incredibly lucrative). They served their cashflow purpose in terms of securing the financing of building the new ground, now we’ll get new deals commensurate with today’s market.
Going back to a little line of discussion from yesterday, I saw LB’s reference to Martin Keown saying the new stadium was Wenger’s idea. As LB says, the great Keown should stick to what he knows best, because it was most certainly not Wenger’s idea: the most recent version of the idea of moving from Highbury, and which has now resulted in Ashburton, was the Board’s idea, since they saw that staying at our lovely but small old home would ultimately lead to our downfall. David Dein ultimately wanted to sell the family home and rent a new pad in Wembley; Fiszman and the majority preferred to stay in the area and build. But it was something from the Board, not Wenger. And anyway, the idea of moving from Highbury had been around for donkeys’: I remember in the 1970s that Spurs and Arsenal very seriously developed plans to build a shared stadium near my home, on the Wood Green side of Ally Pally’s grounds (where the old racecourse is). They went as far as seeking planning permission but ultimately the plan was scrapped, for obvious reasons. I’m sure there were plenty of other ideas down the decades for Arsenal to move ground. The idea that it was Wenger’s project is plainly wrong.
Agreed Tommy, as classy as our club!
Dutch journalists are quite direct in their questioning and work along a scenario to get football players to say things they were not prepared to say. The journalist really tried to get him to say things against Arsenal – with reference to the lack of trophies or lack of ambition – but Robin did not have any of it. The journalist started off with: are you jealous of Dirk (Kuijt) winning a trophy on Sunday…. What an idiot!
Oh shit, it looks like Robin will play tonight(the Dutch have said they are confident he will be fit) – so the newly crowned England skipper can do a repeat performance of his ankle crunching tackle on him from Sunday again. 😦
It’s no great surprise to any of us, but that is a ‘Grade A’ Post, and has very cleverly raised certain issues regarding the perceptions of fans, as regards their club, and its management ethos. Excellent! 🙂
Getting straight to the point: Raddy touched on this earlier, but from the inception of the Football League, players were governed by a ‘salary cap’ [hey, weren’t we just talking about the possibility of reintroducing salary caps to reduce the humongous payouts to players?], and in addition there was very little money, if any, to be made from owning the clubs, so the majority were owned by the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker.
When fans went to watch their team play they did not really give a stuff about who owned their club, except in an entirely peripheral way.
Looking back on those days, prior to George Eastham getting the ‘maximum wage’ lifted, the Bosman ruling and the ‘sugar daddy era’, all clubs in the old First and Second Divisions were competing on a level playing field.
Hence clubs like Huddersfield, Northampton, Ipswich and Burnley all popped up to win the First Division Championship from time to time, as well as the other more fancied clubs such as Arsenal and Everton etc.
That era is long gone, and the days of football being a working mans’ domain, where all were equal has long gone too.
Now: Forget ‘moral obligation’! There are businesses who like to present themselves as cuddly and ‘caring’ for their customers,[Banks/Supermarket chains] or sharing the benefits of a successful business with their customers, [all of them] to encourage customer loyalty to their brand. That is just a PR myth!
Business is a capitalist construct. They are there for people in small businesses to earn a living, and the corporate behemoths to make a few people billionaires by extracting money from the many for their desirable products. [Computer moguls spring to mind].
It has always been so since the first caveman bonked cave women on the head and convinced his mate to bogof [buy one get on free].
Leaving aside the moral issue, Kroenke may be forced to invest in Arsenal, whether he wants to or not, if the club started to make losses.
By that I mean, using Randy Lerner as an example, Aston Villa keep posting huge losses, £100 million in the last two years, and where will that money come from? Well the owner’s pocket, of course. That is a part of the deal. Owners can make very nice profits from their businesses, but they can take a hell of a beating too if the venture is not successful.
The question is; should Kroenke invest ‘additional’ funds in Arsenal to buy more and better players? Additional funds, you say? Yep, because he has already paid approximately £700 million to buy the majority shareholding in the first place. No small sum I think you will agree?
Finally, there is a term used in property dealing called a “ransom strip”. This is used where a small, low value plot of land connects two large very expensive plots of land where the value would increase exponentially if the two plots could be treated as one.
Knowing this, the owner of the connecting strip can hold out for an extortionate sum “a ransom” far beyond its intrinsic worth.
This, I believe, is what is happening to the few shares that are being traded at the moment. Kroenke is prepared to pay ‘big’ to stop Usmanov achieving a 30% holding — Usmanov is prepared to pay ‘big’ to achieve his 30% holding and the benefits that will ensue.
They are both being held to ‘ransom’ prices by the canny owners of those few shares, and good luck to them!
The answer is that he will make a value judgement in the best interest of Arsenal, and I think you have already outlined good reasons why he should do so.
Hi Rasp, agreed on accountabilities of employees. I know very little of Gazidis and Laws, but as Wenger has indicated that this summer’s transfer dealings were ‘book-worthy’, there does seem to be room for improvement. I am very jealous btw about your encounter with PR the other day – you are a lucky man 🙂
Hi 26, fine, comprehensive comment: I agree with it all! 🙂
Chary, don’t forget the Dutch have Van Bommel who will ‘deal’ with little Parker as soon as he dares to come near RvP 🙂
cheers chary and TA
and thank you RA for your post worthy opinion *cough* rasp/peaches pinch it *cough*
Apologies to anyone brave enough to read the above to the end. I obviously wrote too much and the last part was truncated by Word Press and does not have any continuity, but you can always ask me if you are interested.
Well that will be sod all then! 🙂
Wow RA, that is a very fine comment, in fact it’s a ‘co-post’. When I wrote mine at the beginning of last week, I thought once or twice this is the sort of post RA should write, or we should write together. Now, we have effectively done that 🙂
Good article, apart from one thing – Your use of the term AA. It is childish and divisive. As Arsenal fans we need to pull together, and gain a common ground against these millionaires bleeding the club dry. Now let’s look at a few of your other arguments. Why do we need owners, especially Stan? We all know that he has absolutely no interest in Arsenal, apart from reaping personal financial rewards. We have a situation where you get some success for the club (and accept debts) or you become “self sufficient” leading to terminal decline. Arsenal fans seem to unwittingly choose the latter. Let us be clear, by the time Arsenal become no longer competitive the Hill Woods and Stans of this world would have already sold their shares and left the club. But we fans will still be their crying over our team’s demise, while Stan will be laughing, counting his money. Remember Liverpool’s Hick’s and Gillette.
I think the issue we have overlooked is that Arsenal is a football club first and a business second. Football clubs are not designed to make money. They should depend a lot on wealthy fans putting their own money in the club (may be Spurs?!). I am not talking about the Chelsea and Man City models; I am talking about genuine wealthy fans who do not ask for the money later. Yes we cannot stop a big business man taking over a club, and would have to depend on national rules, but we can voice our disapproval if we are clear on what the issues are.
I would have preferred Usmanov over Stan because:
1) Usmanov has a love of the game and attends more Arsenal matches than Stan. 2) I believe Stan borrowed the money he used to take Arsenal over (any government that allows this need their heads examined) who is going to pay back the borrowing? 3) Stan has made it perfectly clear that he is only keen on his own personal rewards from the club 4) Usmanov is richer than Stan and Abramovich and is prepared to spend the money the team needs to succeed 5) Man U are in far more debts than Arsenal but are still far richer, why ? Because success on the pitch breeds financial success – fan base widens, bigger sponsorships and advertising, more commodities sold, especially shirts, the club’s name and respect improves.
WE DO NOT NEED THE LIKES OF STAN KROENKE AND HILL-WOOD AT ARSENAL.
Hi all,
thanks LB and 26 for clearing up the Martin Keown thing.
Good Post TA, but possibly a bit late?
Anyone listening to 5Live last night will have heard that Arsenal are very financially sound, and will be very well placed IF the FFP is implemented properly.
Stan Kroenke will only have to seriously consider investing if UEFA can’t make the FFP rules work.
Great article TA.
Personally I dont think Kroenke bought into Arsenal to throw money at it. It was a smart sports-based investment in a team with a background in success, with consistency in league positioning, with a successful manager, the nucleus of an excellent side and financial security built-upon strong financial management.
It is a no-lose investment from someone who has a reputation for saying little, but investing smartly.
He didn’t start off as a multi-billionaire, he made himself what he is.
That is the kind of owner I want. Savvy, intelligent but not belligerant. Respectful of the clubs he owns and their histories and importantly – mindful of their traditions.
WG
TA,
It’s your fault. Your wonderful headline Posts always bring out the worst in me, and encourage me to waffle on! 🙂 🙂
Hi, 26, 🙂
As our unchallenged expert on FFP, can you confirm that as part of the introductory phase, all clubs must contain their losses to a fixed percentage of their turnover, or £20 million, within the next 2 years, before the full implementation of the FFP rules kick in during 2014?
My memory is starting to fail me!! 🙂
Joe61,
AA stands for Arsenal Arsenal, the blog you’ve just had the pleasure to comment on.
Nice post, TA.
Hi WG, thanks for comment and fully agreed.
I just read your new post, which I really enjoyed.
Other AA’ers should have a read, here is the link:
http://www.wigangooner.co.uk/?p=721#comment-1681
Hi Herb, the post was written early last week, but I don’t think it is ever too late to talk about this topic. I guess the latest figures show that Arsenal can invest this summer without breaking any of the FFP rules, or it’s own business principle of sustainability?
@Jon61: “childish and divisive”? Que? AA seems a pretty innocuous term to me.
“We all know that he has absolutely no interest in Arsenal, apart from reaping personal financial rewards.” I don’t know that, I’ve never met Kroenke and have never discussed his motivations or plans, so have no idea. I’m sure he doesn’t want to make a loss and ultimately wants to enjoy the benefit of his asset gaining in value, but unlike the Glazers (who really do fleece their club), the limit of Kroenke’s profit at the moment is the £1m p.a. he gets as a stipend/salary.
“We have a situation where you get some success for the club (and accept debts) or you become ‘self sufficient’ leading to terminal decline. Arsenal fans seem to unwittingly choose the latter.” I disagree. E.g., Man United are not only fully self-sufficient, they actually subsidise their owners, and yet they do pretty well on the pitch. We’re smaller than them and our finances were constrained until the middle of 2010, but even in an age of stunted competition thanks to the sugar daddies we can still succeed on the pitch.
“by the time Arsenal become no longer competitive the Hill Woods and Stans of this world would have already sold their shares and left the club.” If you know your Arsenal history, you’ll know that the Hill-Wood family have been at the club since the 1920s. Plus PHW holds a tiny number of shares these days (and draws a small salary from the club) – he is a buffoon and I wish he weren’t the club’s Chairman but to say he has much materially on the line is plain wrong.
“They should depend a lot on wealthy fans putting their own money in the club”. Fair enough, that’s your opinion. I think that way of operating is dangerous and short-sighted.
“Usmanov has a love of the game and attends more Arsenal matches than Stan.” I haven’t met Usmanov either, so can’t say what his motivations are. But I doubt when he was a kid in Uzbekistan, he was glued to the wireless, wondering whether Arsenal would recover from its quiet period in the 1950s and 1960s. Face it, he’s no more an Arsenal man than Kroenke. And I’m not sure how you’d know how many games he attends, but perhaps you’re right on that one.
“Stan has made it perfectly clear that he is only keen on his own personal rewards from the club” Really? Where did he say that?
“Usmanov is richer than Stan and Abramovich and is prepared to spend the money the team needs to succeed” You really like Usmanov don’t you?
“Man U are in far more debts than Arsenal but are still far richer” Correct. They have much higher revenues because they are a bigger club, with more fans and are more attractive for sponsors etc. They also have very high debts because their owners are exploiting the club and its fans in a pretty outrageous way, using (unlike either Kroenke or Usmanov) a leveraged method of ownership that sees millions disappear from the club every month. The real achievement of Ferguson and his players is the fact that they’ve sustained a level of performance despite what their owners are doing. The quality of their squad has deteriorated but through sheer determination they stay at the top. Credit to them.
I’m no fan of either Kroenke or Usmanov but I have more trust in the former than the latter (I may not have met Usmanov but I do quite a lot of business in Russia and know people who have done business with him, which informs my opinion). But as you say, the important thing is our functioning as a football club. The moment I think our owners get in the way of that, I’ll say so. To my mind, right now there is more good about the current regime than there is bad, but there are things that need to improve now that we’re out of the woods in terms of financing the new stadium.
RA, I’ll have to remind myself on that point re FFP rules later on, have to zoom off now! But loved your long comment!
Hi Joe, thanks for an in-depth albeit sometimes a bit confusing comment. Football clubs are businesses with real risks, and can go bust: capable and responsible owner are paramount.
Like you, I would not mind a wealthy, charitable owner who also is a lifelong Gooner and looks after the club in all aspects, but as far as I know nobody has been knocking on the door recently.
was everyone aware that Bendtners contract expires in the summer?
If UEFA enforce the FFP rules, we will be financially very strong, second only to Man Utd (‘a money-making machine’), and we’ll never be on their level because of the difference in global support.
If they can’t make the FFP rules stick (Arsene Wenger and many others have raised serious doubts and there’s the legal issue of kicking clubs out of major competitions), Arsenal’s problems will unravel, and they will need to consider their whole structure in terms of the direction the club takes.
A lot of Arsenal’s recent transfer activity has been a calculated gamble on the FFP rules being enforced.
Maybe we should refer to ourselves as A2s in the future to avoid confusion? I’m not sure what joe61 mistook it to mean?
Scott Parker! Words fail me. Be Andy Carroll next
SGG. Where did you read that?
Herb. Gamble? What else could Arsenal have done? Do you think they should have borrowed heavily to keep up with the nouveau riche?
AFC have been financed this way generations prior to the FFP
TalkShite radio reported today that
Scott Parker is the new English skipper
Podolski coming to THOF
Maureen house hunting in London
Here’s an idea – instead of AA’ers how about we call ourselves AnAl’s = in deference to all the accountants we attract 😆
Hi Raddy,
you are misinterpreting me, I’m not complaining, merely relaying what I was listening to on 5Live.
Raddy – I am sure Psycho was instructed by the next English manager to promote Parker
Great post Dutch Master.
I would like to pick out your last sentence “The jury is still out on Kronke”. I could not agree more, but would like to add that the Jury is always out when it comes to owners of our club. Despite what they have done in the past, i always keep a beady eye on there current and potential future actions. They can make there money, but for me they are nothing more than custodians and if they break that trust i will be one of the first to track them down and seek justice.
Just a point about FFP. Why are people obsessing with 2014 to see wether the rules have an impact? FFP is already having an impact, look at Chelsea and City in the January transfer window. The point of FFP is that it will act as a compromise, this will be enough for Arsenal to benefit greatly.
i know i keep repeating it, but i dont care, “The future for Arsenal is bloody fantastic”
Little by little you are slowly getting it Herb.
I`m still waiting for the answer to my very serious question posed to our Dutch Master @10:29am ( I bet your all scrambling back now to see what my question was, Oh yes you are ! ).
Cheers Terry, bloody fantastic indeed 😀
Rasp, I am getting a bit worried about your new name for those who blog on AA: AnAl’s –> have you become a member of the Cuckoo Club?!
Thank you LB, if indeed that is meant as a compliment.
Sorry GLiC!! Yes, I do remember the interview of McLaren: absolutely hilarious. Bless him, he was trying to bridge the gap between him and the dutch fans by speaking with some sort of dutch accent. Funnily enough, after that people warmed to him quicker and as you know, he has rejoined Twente as their manager a month ago, and he is doing well again.
TA, I was in the cuckoo club when the others were still in the egg!
Rasp 🙂 I think GLiC was already in the cuckoo club even before he hatched.
haha AnAl’s, that’s just asking for GLIC to cause trouble in it. And it wouldn’t be the first time too haha
That accent thing with Mclaren. When i took Mrs Terry to Paris for New Year. (yes yes, i know ime a romantic love God). I noticed that every Frenchie i spoke to, i did so in a French accent, but obviously in English. Is this normal?, do any other AA’ers do this or is just me and Mclaren?
Slim he signed a new 5 year deal in May 2007. However in 2009 he signed another deal so I’m pretty sure it was extended.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/danish-forward-signs-new-long-term-deal
I sure as hell hope so because if he is shipped out he could bring in 8 or so million for the club
BR,
Sky sports running a story about Bendy getting interest from Russia and it says his contract expires this summer.
Good news!
You are not alone TMHT, i had a scottish mate and if i’ve spent the day with him sometimes i slip and say something with an accent. It always happens. When (hopefully) i move to England i think my Aussie accent will vanish unfortunently, just like harry kewells did
Hahahahahahahahahaha do you remember when we beat Spurs 5-2? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
* have (not had)
I remember when we beat them 5-0 at WHL, SGG!
And we’ve won two titles there.
Thanks for a very interesting post TA and I admit that I don’t know that much as to how American franchises in sport are run, but it was mentioned that kroenke borrowed the money to accumulate his shares.
Has he been successful in other sport franchises as I really don’t know ?
usmanov supporter or not has repeatedly said that if and when he gets his 30% it will allow him to look at the books and as discussed to an extent on Radio 5 live last night and in the The Swiss Ramble report, even if the figures are not quite correct there is no doubt that our wage bill on players alone is far too high as so many have little or no transfer value,yet are on pretty big wages
.
TMHT, by 2014 new shirt and sponsorship deals will be renegotiated together with the fact that the FFP will be working to our advantage.
Personally I wouldn’t want either the American or Russian running our club, but my main concern is that a clash is inevitable between them to the detriment of the club.
We will have to keep selling to maintain a challenge for another season or two..
Again in TSR it states Europa Cup nets about 6 million as opposed to 20 million plus for CL just for starters.
I am sure the club know what they are doing but it would be nice to see kroenke at games more often,even just to appease some fans, that he actually has an interest in the football.
Terry, you are, no doubt, the master of seduction, and I can well imagine you speaking english with a french accent to the lovely Parisian beauties, even though I have never met you! ‘Would you like me to take you to the Seine so you can see the stars with the help of my…. telescope formidable’ sounds a lot more seductive with a french accent. 🙂
Dear AA,ers
Advice needed. My eldest daughter is 21 and is currently going out with this geezer that i do not like, (a plastic manc), and despite my efforts to break them up she persists to see only the good in this twat and its driving me up the bend.
I have contemplated having him roughed up, or set up on some phoney charge but dont think either of these options will work. What is the best thing that i can do to keep this orrible mancs paws of my daughter?
Yours
Desperate Terry
Hi Kelsey, I agree with you that the total wage bill seems too high, but do you believe the club is not aware of this and working on getting better value for its wage-bill money? 11 players were sold or went out on loan last summer for example?
You also said: ‘We will have to keep selling to maintain a challenge for another season or two..’ Is that your opinion or was this a statement at last night’s 5Live radio programme?
TMHT
I’m sure Charey will have some cruelly gruesome suggestions.
TA,
No it was my opinion having read TSR as profits could plummet next season.
Tommy,
No worries, the soloution has just come to me. I am going to honey trap him by employing the services of some lovley lady of the night that i know. I am familier with this ladys profession via scientific research that i conducted recently round her gaff. Once she gets hold of him and the spy cameras are rolling i will be shot of the little git.
@ TMHT
get RA + GiE to rough him up.
or
Invite him over and start pressuring him to marry your daughter as soon as possible, being over committed might scare him off. If he accepts…It wasn’t me who suggested it!
Hi Terry, there is nothing you can do other than being Zen-like philosophical about it. The more you go against it, the closer they will get.
When I was 17 I had my first serious relationship. I was into heavy metal, with long hair and a ‘bad’ attitude and the mother of my then rather pretty girlfriend absolutely hated me. She went as far as checking my girlfriend knickers in the washing basket to see whether there was evidence of sexual activity (we threw a lot of knickers away in those days), stopped giving her pocket money, locked her out of the house in the middle of the night and even went as far as inviting other boys to her house so my girlfriend would pair up with one of them… As you can guess, we got really close and the relationship lasted two years.
So my advice is: totally ignore him and don’t put any pressure on your daughter: don’t make them rebels with a cause! It will be over before you know 🙂
As Tommy suggests Mr Syrup man I would think it imperative to smite this plastic manc PDQ – they are the scourge of humanity.
Perhaps showing your daughter the type of person these mancs worship – Fergie(alcoholic street scrapping bully) Keano(highly, violent unstable nut job), Beckham (self serving publicist married to anorexic sour puss), Greasiano Ronaldo(narcissistic diving lady boy) etc.. this will convince her to dump this foul sloth.
PS – as the resident pedant, please can we refer to Usmanov as “the Uzbeki” or “Jabba” ? Both are more correct than “the Russian” 🙂
‘naristic diving lady boy’ hahahahahaha – ‘anorexic sour puss’ hahahahaha – you’re in top form Chary 😆
Dear Daddy Transplant
It`s too late as I am well in there with my soon to be MiL., I like to keep it in the family ! 😉
Think yourself lucky, I could have been a dipper and been off not only with your daughter , wife and plasma screen but also your sticky telescope, and I also know about your nite`s in Harlow, you Cretian Love God , HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…………………………hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Thanks TA, OZ,
I can stand the little shit. Hes doing a sports degree and is destined to become one of these sadistic P.E. teachers that every one hates. Hes also into martial arts, and when my daughter leaves the room and its just him and me, he pulls of some weird movements with his arms or does a flying kick in the air. Hes a right ponce, ime definatly going to honey trap him.
They are the worst Terry – I bet he wears sportswear all the time, has a short, need haircut and has a go at anybody who is overweight?!
I can’t help myself when ManUre are involved… I just hate them TotalA !
Cornwall, Chary, hahhahhahaha
Youve got him in one TA. I swear by the temple of Zeus, ime gona honey trap the git.
haha sounds like a true winner TMHT! Shit i studied Phys Ed teaching for a year and a half, and was nearly a black belt in Tae Kwon Do haha. But arm movements and jumping about, what is he 12? I can understand why your trying your best, he’s a fathers nightmare by the sounds of it!
Well Chary you are putting that hatred to good use! Very funny!
Terry, if you are really serious about this, you are best adviced to do nothing. Remember you could lose your daughter over this. You have got to let her make her own mistakes.
Your right TA. Ime just letting off steam, but i just dont like him at all.
here you go TMHT
OZ, hahahhahahhahahaha, brilliant.
Terry – I will ask my mother how she managed to scare all of my suitors! She was a proper cow. The martial arts expert she was calling that nice dwarf. The maths genius she offered to knit a little hood for his nose for the rainy days,as he had turned up hooter.
She managed to find a fault and ridicule it on each occassion until I found the fault too much to bear.
Psychological killings are much more effective.
But then I left home and away from the She Devil I married every Tom, Dick and Harry I wanted 🙂
sorry guys but I like Nik B, I’d rather he came back
Thanks Evonne hahahahahaha. Pschology it is then.
@ Evonne
i did rate him, and like him a lot as a player.
But say that he never wants to come back to arsenal, and whining about lack of game time started to get on my nerve. Yes it’s good to see players want to be involved but not when he spent large peroids injured with groin injuries. You can’t expect to come back and get a starting berth. Especially when RVP is on fire. He should have reeled it in, learn more from Arsene and his team mates and then take his chances when they came to him!
There is an alternative. Tell him you are decended from the little known Greek Island of Shirtliftos, take him upstairs to your bathroom and show him the way of your telescope and invite him over for a session with naked gazer of number 52 and tell him, ” I love Uranus ” . Guaranteed success !
Oz – are you sure Boy Wonder will be with us next season?
I laughed at the Raspers new acronym for AA, then I laughed, again, at TA @ 1:33. AnAl indeed! 🙂
I suspect that Joe mistakenly thought you were referring to Alcoholics Anonymous in which case he had a point — but he has probably grasped by now that this is the Cuckoo Club branch of Alcoholic Accountants; President Mr Peroni Charybdis! 🙂
Speaking of which, I do not remember coming across Swiss Ramble, and I am really impressed with his Post.
That could have been me writing that.
Clearly he has any number of great attributes; he is clearly intelligent, and despite being Swiss (?) writes beautifully concise English; has put a lot of effort into eschewing accountant speak so that he has kept everything simple for the layman, and importantly he has put time and effort into constructing his composition in such a way that every key point flows effortlessly into the next. Formidable!
Well OK, —– if you ignore those great attributes, it could have been me (ish)!! 🙂
I bloody well hope so Evonne. As a positive person i truly believe he will, he’s a special person and seems to love the fans and club greatly. It’s comforting knowing that money and trophies aren’t the only driving force in a player’s mind. If he stays with us he will be a legend, if he leaves he will just be remembered as another player who left us in the middle of his prime.
If he left i’d be gutted and would grow to despise him like i do cesc. It’s all well and good saying he gave us his best years, but in truth he didn’t because he was injured a great deal.
Arsenal is Home for RVP, we love him!
Oz – we loved Cesc too. I still have his signed photo on my wall.
@ Evonne
‘loved’ but definitely not any more. My hatred of him rivals GM’s
Afternoon Evonneski, I now know why you like Rory Deflappy so much – it is to spite your mum. What would she make of him? 🙂
Cornwall, the problem is that i suspect him of enjoying a bit of shirtiliftos. hahahaha
I get the impression this video here will be good(I can’t watch it till later) a different view of the NLD from behgind the North Bank goal:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/free-video-the-derby-from-a-different-angle
Evonne, I hope you don’t think it’s being cheeky,but if you do requests can you call me “a beast” as I’ve stuck a video link up like the original beast does?
It’d make me grin. 🙂
Hi TA – she’s given up when I turned 50 🙂
Oz – nope, I still love Cesc. I don’t want him to do well in Spain though.
Robin is a big question for next season. Is he waiting to see if we finish in top 4 ? He carried us through this season, without him we would be mid table. Is he prepared to do it next year again or will he go to Madrid?
The Beast !! You made me grin 🙂 You are anything but the Beast, i’d call you Sweetie if I wasn’t calling TA that already
Redders,
That Swiss Ramble chap writes some great articles. He kind of confirms what we already knew to be honest but puts it in a very readable format. His assumptions are based on good principles, and the 3 notions of increased commercial revenue, FFP and future land and property sales, should see Arsenal’s position strengthen considerably. Looking further ahead, 2 things Swiss barely touches on are also relevent. The first is that we still have 20 years to pay the loan, but as each year passes inflation eats away at its cost. In addition, in 2020 the naming rights for the stadium is also up, which should bring in further income.
The club is in a very strong position going forward. The key is to generate enough income to keep our squad together, away from the clutches of our rivals,and to maintain our current policy and management. If we do all this, we will be primed to chalange Man Utd for future dominance of the premeirship.
Chas loves it when you call him a beast Evonne, and I can’t help but grin as well when you do.
I will wait for a suitable nick name from you for me – I’m sure you’ll come up with a good one ! 🙂
TMHT. This is my field (really, it is – I am a fully qualified Relationship Counsellor and worked for Relate in Stanmore)
A faulty electrical connection is an option. Another is the dodgy parachute jump, the faulty valve on his diving equipment, faulty brakes is good as long as you keep your daughter away from the car,.
Then there is the Taliban solution – tape a bomb to the underside of his car, or the “Somalia is a good place for an adventure holiday” tactic
Joking apart, the only thing to do is be a great Dad and support her in any choice she makes. If you are lucky she will ask your opinion of the gimp and then you can tell her. If you go any other route disaster awaits. Trust that you have brought her up to be a sensible girl and wait until she sees the light.
TerryM,
There are very few people who would be capable of writing such a lucid report as the Swiss Rambler, in my opinion. Clear, concise and all encompassing. 🙂 I will read his other non-Arsenal stuff just for the hell and enjoyment of it.
He did actually touch on the long term debt, in affect the mortgage on the Emirates, by quoting Ivan Gazidis when he said that not all debt is ‘bad’ debt, because a long term loan at very low interest rates is easily within the capability of the club to service.
In fact, because of the very strong balance sheet, additional short term debt (to buy players) would be no bad thing in my view, especially as the purchase payments cash flow is normally staggered by agreement with the selling clubs; i.e. spend £50 million on two ace players and repay the selling clubs at £10m per annum for 5 years.
Don’t forget, there is probably a substantial amount of cash owed to Arsenal from the sale of our ex-players, and there would be an element of cash in to our coffers, as well as cash out.
The beauty of such staggered cash flow payments is that over the next 5 years our commercial revenues will increase substantially, and if we achieve better on field results as a consequence of buying quality players that, in turn, will increase the revenue stream all the more. A genuine virtuous circle!
Of course, the Arsenal BoD might think I am talking bollocks, because Torres shows that spending £50 million on a player(s) is a risk and could have the opposite effect to that intended.
They should listen to me!! 🙄
A Spurs supporter walked into a pub and saw this Arsenal fan propping up the bar, with a dog at his feet.
“Oi, you” said the Spud to the Gooner, “that’s a mangy looking dog you got there, does he bite?”
“what did you say?” said the Gooner.
“I said, does your dog bite?”
“No, no he doesn’t” said your TMHT look-a-like.
With that the aggressive Spud bent down and roughly grabbed the dog by the scruff and was immediately bitten by the angry mutt.
“I thought you said your dog didn’t bite”, said the hurt and angry Spudder.
“He doesn’t” said our man, “that’s not my dog!” 🙂
RA. Any player is a risk. For every Torres there is a Fabregas to Barca €35m 34 apps. 15 goals 16 assists.
I would have bought him! And I would buy Torres for the same money.
Glad you agree with me, Raddy. 🙂
Go tell Gazidis to give Red Arse a contract and he will become a leg end. 🙂
Redders, great comments. It looks like we we have very managable debt with a strong equity to debt ratio.
Thanks Raddy, i like the Taliban solution. hahahaha
I went to the last Holland visit to Wembley, when we beat them 4-1during the Euro’s. It was a brilliant time to be an England fan.
Proper team (even if Venables played that a-hole Sheringham) – Shearer, Gazza, TA. Pearce, Seaman, Ince etc
Good post TA. The joy of fans/players is to see their team winning trophies. I am not an advocate of spending cracy money on players but we still need to spend reasonably. The money realised on the sales of Nasri and Fabregas last summer is more than £50m. Where is the money? In the bank? Doing what? If Kroenke can not pump his money into the team, money realise on the sales of players should go back to the team. At least if you can’t help me, dont add to my burden. What somebody like me is saying is that Kroenke and the rest of the board should make our darling club attractive and competitive. The nickname Arsenal is a sellig club is not the best. Most young players see Arsenal as a stepping stone to other big clubs. The wages structure should be reviewed upward. We fans deserve the best. Up Arsenaaal.
Terry,
Being a mix of Love God Cretian with a French accent you probably dont need any Tips , but I am inventing an “Award Winning” love potion, just dont let any of the other AAers know yet as I`m still in the “Guinea Pig ” trial stage. Your need a good quantity of (schhhh now) Nepeta Cataria, grind this and add some Oil ( preferably Virgin Olives from a secret mountainous area of Crete which have been fertilized by herculian goat pee ) to the powder and mix, It Is now ready, you can use It as a bath oil and soak yourself. You will now be a pussy magnate. Be warned though, do not put It on in concentrated form and do not put it around your todger, they will be clawing and scratching away at your do da`s for weeks !
Ade David. Thank you for your comment. What makes you say that Arsenal are a selling club. True we have sold Nasri and Cesc but it should be recalled that we bought both of them.
Are Barca or Marseilles selling clubs?
Players get traded, that is just the way of the modern game.The days of one club players are over.
As to the 50m from Nasri and Cesc (and the €13m from Clichy) – we bought 7 players in summer or have you forgotten?
GLIC. Can you send me a bottle – will it get through Customs?
I love the post. I don’t want that fat bastard running the club. kronke doesn’t have any moral obligations. As far as I know he is a successful business man. Some bloggers think he’s some kind of mug becuase he’s not as rich as a oligarch. They are all dodgy. In Russia they are called “appointed billionaires”. Is Herb around?
I’m worried about Robin. he didn’t finish training as he had a slight train. But I’ve been reading they “think” he’s going to be ok. If parker or any other pikey does him I’m going to pay a voodoo witch doctor to make bad things happen to them
The BBC website was much easier to use when it was red. the yellow one is confusing
Raddy,
I`d be very surprised If Micky wasn`t familiar and acquainted with Nepeta Cataria and could send you some mixed with a bash of Devon clotted cream !. 🙂
GM, Ive heard that Voodoo is the way forward, we should take it up as a hobby. hahaha
Park played today. He’s not captain anymore as someone on here pointed out.
Japan lost at home to jabbas team. That’s a catastrophe for them. Miyaichi didn’t play.
What a goal by Lansbury
http://yfrog.com/0ggmtz
RvP starts
Why are England ranked 5th in the world? Is that a pisstake?
Irish that is fucking brilliant makes messi look a mug
I wonder If you actually need qualifications to become a Witch Doctor ?
Must be a babe magnate, everyone wants their daughters to marry Rich Doctors !
He won’t be playing against the bindippers then.
If RVP has any problems with his groin, however small, then he shouldn`t be playing ! 👿
Hi GM,
LB and 26 have both said Martin Keown was wrong to say that The Emirates was solely Arsene Wenger’s project, and as they are both far more knowledgable than me, I accept their verdict.
Evening Irish.
Thanks irish, incredible goal, just like the ones i uesd to score down Hackney Marshes.
I`ve heard the Uzbeki plays American Football and he`s a Quarterback, he`s known as Jabba the …hut…hut…hut !
Do ye guys think he meant it? I think he does, looks up, sees the keeper off his line and has a whack.
Herb I was going to ask you if keown said it was all down to Wenger on the radio. Is that what he said?
Terry , I thought you would be in the bathroom grinding out some of my love potion !.
Cornwall, i thought you were the Guinea Pig, hahaha.
Irish, he definatly meant it. I used to score goals like that every Sunday and always meant it. hahaha
If you can access the 5Live iplayer, GM, you’ll hear it for yourself. It was on between 8.30 and 9.30 last night. Anyone else who heard the programme would be able to confirm what Keown said.
Thanks Herb.
One of the weirdest things I saw over the “Marshes” was, We were playing on one of the windiest days of the year, Our keeper took a goal kick, It lifted up and the wind caught It, It flew back and crashed against the bar and went back into play !
Was It that obvious Terry ! 😆
How sad,Davy Jones of the monkees has died aged 66.
Well, i didnt want to say Cornwall. hahahaha.
I saw that Kelsey, grew up watching there tv show, sad news.
Hi Kelsey,
did you listen to the Arsenal special last night on 5Live?
Loved the monkees, RiP Davy.
I remeber the last Monkee show when Davy Jones said it was the end and I cried.
Big Randy at 6.25 pm Thanks mate. Who was Nasri before he came to Arsenal? He came to Arsenal to become a star and off he went. Arsenal made Fabregas not Barcenal. He was unknown little kid b4 he came to us. Almost every year we sell one or two of our best players without replacing them. The believe of many football fans is that we groom players for other. Now we cant beat our chest and boldly say that our captain will stay. Thats the point I was trying to make. I ‘ll like a situation where we keep our stars.
Herb,
I only got the first 20 minutes as Five live often changes frequency over here for no apparent reason, and we don’t get I player. I heard one of the speakers say that Almunia was on 60K a week, which if true is unbelievable.
The under 21s are on ESPN if I’d known I would have been watching it
I knew Tommy Boyce in the seventies who wrote most of their songs except I’m a Believer which I think was written by neil diamond.
Boyce made a fortune but blew it all up his nose.
I might be mistaken, and some one please correct me if ime wrong, but at the prelimanary stages of the proposed move the 2 power brokers were Dein and Fizman. fizman favoured the move to the Grove and Dein wanted the club to rent Wembley. This conflict of opinion led to the departure of Dein, because other shareholders and Directors backed Fizman.
i dont doubt what you heard Herb, but its my understanding the main push for the Grove was Fizman.
Big Randy, 😆 😆 😆
Yeah, i saw that Cornwall, Big Randy will love that. hahahahahhaha
I thought Wembley was an intrim move suggested by Dein and that he proposed a bigger more cost effective stadium at Kings X, than AG, but I may be wrong
This must be Strong stuff I`m making, Just the mention of It and we have Big Randy ! 😆
Ade – While I agree with some of what you are saying, there aren’t too many “stars” we sold in their prime apart from Fabregas and Nasri.
Anelka never fulfilled his potential, he would have been far better off staying at Arsenal, same with Hleb, Flamini. Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry etc., were all past it.
We would have got a bit more out of Pires and Gilberto, and Cashley leaving was a pity because he’s a fine player but a complete twat.
ime not sure either Kelsey, hopefuly some one can put some more light on it.
Fine post TA
I would rather have a sensible businessman like Stan in charge than someone like Jabba.
I don’t imagine Stan feels he needs to pour gallons of cash in, given that the financial prognosis is pretty good.
Cornwall, i know Big Randy put in the first request for a bottle, but how did you deliver it so quickly. What kind of courier service you running down there, faster than light? Anyway sod the guinea pig stage, i want some of what Big Randys on. hahahahahaha
Come to think of It , I remember talk of King`s Cross and for a long time (because of being stuck down here ) I thought that was where we were building the current stasdium . I also would love to know what happened with that proposal, were there any plans and designs ? and if so can someone put them up ?
Yes Terry, actually “Big Randy” would be a great name for the product !, You can run the Bounds Green depot ! 😆
joel Campbell has scored against the Welsh
Big Randy`s got Denmark covered, any other takers ?, kelsey Spain ?, Oz ?, Rocky ?. We will soon have our own AA Ex` Box at THOF !
Any vid of it gm ?
Lansbury, Oxo, Arshavin, and Joel Campbell have all scored so far tonight
a great try by campbell. The commentator just said “you can see why Arsenal were so keen to get his signature”
I love my new name! Must tell Mrs Randy (who already knows)
kelsey. You are right about the grounds. You wouldn’t believe the changes around Kings Cross – it is a completely different place.
Ade. My point is that we are not a selling club any more than Man Utd are who sold Tevez and Ronaldo. Selling Nasri was great business for AFC. Barca sold Eto’o, Man City sold Robinho, Real sold Figo, Liverpool sold Mascherano and Alonso etc etc
Yes, Cesc came as a kid and made his name at AFC. Nasri was already an big name in French football when he came and we made a large profit on him
I’ve only justv started watching GIE
Feeling a bit raddy and not up for it. Try the award winning Cornwall product to turn yours and your partners lives around. Yes its new and comes with 30 day money back gaurantee. Dont waste time with all these fake products that dont work, Do you want to be BIG?, do you want to be RANDY?. If the answer is yesssss, then dont wait a minute longer.
“BIG RANDY”, gauranteed to make you big and randy every time.
Available from all Award Winning Cornwall retail outlets, £29.99 including vat and packaging
I hate andy townsend. he’s a fucking idiot
Terry 😆 😆 😆
The Package from Cornwall Is always ” Award Winning” ! 😆
Whats that e va va vonne, It`s a small package ! schhhhh
Cornwall, ime glad Raddy sees the funny side, otherwise all our profits would be eaten up by the hospital treatment which would be required after Raddys finished with us. hahahahha
Whats that gm, “A great try by Campbell ” , I know It`s In Wales but I thought they were playing Football !
Chas, hahahahhahahaha
Ah, Mr Syrup man – that 8.16 is a corker !
All I can add to that is “…..brought to you by K-Tel”
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/the-arsenal-youngster-scores-joel-campbell-costa-rica-v-wales/
Stevie Me taken off on 30 minutes so he’s fresh for Saturday, the bugger.
Can Robin come off then please ?
I should have looked for chas first 🙂
Terry,
I had a cunning plan for an angry Raddy. We would dose ourselves up with XXX Big Randy and instead of battering us, he would have Rogered us senseless instead, you were first inline bestest mate, It would have been batten down your syrup time !
Brilliant chas 😆
Cornwall, hahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaha
chary,
I’m monster, not a beast. It’s that Big Randy that’s the beast.
sorry, gm, didn’t realise you were looking. 🙂
TMHT. Are you in advertising?
A woman just proposed to her fella at Lansdowne Rd during the break of the Ireland vs Czech match – he said yes … he’ll regret that yet.
I bet he’s regretting it already
Yeah, Chas Big Randy is the beast, you are some kind of monster, as Metallica would say.
No Raddy. Please dont batter me or my mate Cornwall when your next in the Tavern, I blame that Ade geezer hahhahahah.
Not tried battering, is it some new sexual act?
Robin’s off
Thanks Kelsey, Terry.
I just wanted to confirm to GM what Keown had said regarding The Emirates.
After taking the love potion, it could well be Raddy. hahhahahahha
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/alex-oxlade-chamberlain-england-u21-v-belgium/
Fantastic solo goal. Almost rooney like
Good to see the Arsenal have already scored 5 this evening.
Is RvP playing in the second half?
RvP not playing second half. Hooray.
RvP off – phew
The happy couple … and Mr Tayto
i like Mr Tayto’s trousers, might buy me some of those.
Get in I hate England
Anyone else think Stevie Me will be miraculously recovered by Saturday ?
Bloody hell, lethal finnish from Robben
2.0 now, bloody hell
How funny is that. have
Blimey, that could have been Robin dazed instead of Huntelaar.
Chary
I think he’ll have complications and have to go in intensive care until the Euros. Well I can hope
Huntelaar looks stoned
We can only dream GM. Looks like ole Bacon face will be down another player against the spuds.
Why cant we produce better technical players. Its a country of 70 million people but there always seems to ba a lack of individual quality. ive heard so many different reasons why over tha last 30 years but just cant get my head round it.
Terry it’s the way young kids are trained.
Ive heard that GM, but dont they get trained well at the big clubs? The solution is an England team full of Arsenal players. I bet if England had say 5 arsenal players in the team in a couple of years i.e. Jack, OX, Gibbs, Jenks and Theo we would win the World Cup. the only downside it might also require Arsene Wenger as manager, and i wouldnt like that.
Anyway, ime off to do some training, need to get myself fit so when i get my supply of Big Randy ime in good condition to handle it. hahhahaha
We have the best hairdressrs though Terry. It’s a known fact and far more important
And Award Winning pies etc etc
Missed all the days discussion 😦
Just read your post TA and a very good read indeed. For me there is no moral obligation to invest more of his own cash, be it loaned or via a rights issue.
Now I have just had the chance to listen to the R5 piece on Arsenal. I switched off when the AST representative stated that “we already have the worlds highest ticket prices”. I am sorry but I can’t be doing with that statement. The man talking the most sense was the ex LFC Chief Exec. And even he got carried away with the wages discussion when the list of wages that were by the AST own admission guesstimates were being discussed. It may have got better but perhaps they would have been better off getting Robert Peston on than Martin Keown to discuss financial matters. I normally respect R5s output on football but I just didn’t like the tone of it.
The biggest surprise to me was that the AST has 1000 members. What’s our fanbase in the UK 100-200,000, worldwide what does that number become, yet they speak for us? Well they don’t speak for me, they may be financial bigwigs but maybe they need a PR man on their board to explain how their output can be destructive/constructive in equal measure.
haha the cuckoo club in full force again. Big Randy is a hilarious name.
I hope we can find a place for lansbury in our squad
Just heard that we are playing Man$ity on the 27th July at the Bird’s Nest Stadium China; should that not be the Robins v the Canaries instead.
Liverpool v Arsenal:
Six of the last nine Premier League games between Liverpool and Arsenal have ended as draws.
There have been six 90th minute or later goals scored in the last six league matches between Liverpool and Arsenal.
There have been three own goals and two penalties scored in the last five league meetings between the Reds and the Gunners.
There have been three red cards in the last three Premier League games between Arsenal and Liverpool.
If Arsenal avoid defeat, it will be the first time they have gone five consecutive league games without a loss away at Anfield.
Liverpool’s victory at the Emirates back in August ended a run of eight Premier League games without a win for Liverpool against Arsenal.
This is Liverpool’ joint-worst tally of points after 12 home matches of a season in the Premier League era (20).
The Reds are one of two teams who haven’t lost a home league game this season, but they have drawn eight and won only four of their 12 matches at Anfield.
Arsenal have kept just three clean sheets in their last 20 Premier League away matches.
The Reds have the worst chance conversion rate of any team in the Premier League, scoring with just 8.6% of shots.
(Opta)
Interesting GIE my reaction to the AST rep was the same as yours,I was disappointed as Rasp had seemed impressed with him and I was looking forward to his input, which i felt was definitely lightweight Martin K. Was playing the company line he is undoubtedly a wenger fan,and why not ?he prolonged his career.
In my book our American friend with his multiple sports interest’s has to be a better bet for the club than Jabba with his questionable affiliations. stan like most top managers seems to be keeping a watching brief and letting his staff get on with the job,our financial situation seems to suggest he is right so to do.
A fine article TA and an interesting debate, one thing I would like to ask though is could we use the word hate less on here,one surely shouldn’t hate anyone or anything purely because it is non Arsenal. It seems a counter productive word on a blog that prides itself on attracting reasonable bloggers to add a different dimension to the debates
To state the obvious football is a business,and when the emotion and romance is removed,bottom line is all. trophies are great profit and survival are better. Stan if his track record is to be believed will provide that and thus IMHO is the ideal owner of for a club that has long been known for it’s class in an industry sadly lacking in that commodity
dandan,
Why have you got a capital ‘D’ and no avatar?
I typed that on my Ipad Chas and it seems to have sulked at playing second fiddle and taken its revenge 🙂
Have reverted to the PC is that better LOL
That’s better. It confused me because it didn’t seem like the real you!
Was the Rocky point about yesterday’s post?
Bloody hell chas I am having a bad day, think I should go back to bed, It iwas Total’s post and I have changed my Acknowledgement. Thanks for the spot
Chas have just rebooted my photographic lap top after about a year of non use it has 108 updates on it. is this a record 🙂
I know it’s really bad of me, but I haven’t even been vaguely interested in listening to the Radio 5 Arsenal discussion. I’m sick to death of the Arsenal finances debate, especially since most of it seems to be guesswork.
Sunday was such a wonderful day and reconfirmed to me my basic and simple love of football and the Arsenal.
Haha dandan.
Did TA use the word ‘hate’? Rocky used ‘haters’ yesterday, I thought that’s what you were talking about?
Ah, I’ve just realised you were talking about the use of the word ‘hate’ in comments, not in the lead post. Your post confused me big time. 🙂
Sport is a drug chas, and when you overdose like on Sunday then the euphoria is like nothing else. Talk to anyone who like me was at the Fairs cup win and the memory has never dimmed many of us were so pumped up that we invaded the pitch at the end, would not have believed that possible but it happened.
Sorry it is early 🙂
morning all
@ Dandan
i used despise, hope that’s ok, seems a bit nicer haha
@ Chas
agreed, this number crunching is doing my head in. It is very interesting and i appreciate those who have explained it so well. However, it’s made me look forward to smashing liverpool more!
Guys,
Arsenal is a big business that has many employees and people talk. The vast majority of people who quote ‘souces’ are making stuff up, but there are those who have inside information and it is then up to you as to whether you choose to believe them.
I’m not bothered whether any of you think I’m a liar, but I am telling you I know of several people who gain information that comes from high up in the club and that is reliable – and for that reason they cannot possibly name names.
Rasp who has ever suggested you were a liar mate, far from it I think your opinions carry a lot of weight on here.
Rasp,
I can guarantee that nobody on here thinks you are a liar.
Does anyone have a link to the Joel Campbell goal against Wales yesterday – I understand it was a cracker.
Hi guys, thanks, I wasn’t suggesting you thought I was a liar, its just that once in a while someone will be telling the truth – I wasn’t referring to myself in this case except for the statement that I know of people who report on Arsenal who do have reliable inside sources.
No sooner requested than supplied – thanks chas, you’re the quickest clip-poster in the west 😛
Morning all.
Rasp, would you kindly expand on that.Don’t name names but are you refering to postives or negatives or both, about the way the club is run, what you believe is the short and long term future of the club etc.No one is calling you a liar as far as I know .
Oooh, I like the look of Campbell – quick, strong and direct with 2 good feet.
Hi kelsey, both – just general information. The point i was really making is that according to our own chosen standpoint, we will selectively believe/disbelieve what is reported, most of it is utter rubbish but some will be telling the truth. The broad thrust of what the AST is saying is pretty close to the truth. The actual figures are unlikely to be 100% accurate.
It is true that the AST is a fairly small organisation but Arsenal take them seriously and Gazidis adresses meetings on occasion and is in regular correspondence with them. Obviously private information such as player salaries would not be revealed by IG.
Morning all, Rasp I think Alex49 has a list of the wages, they seem to be the ones being used and commented on.
http://forty-nine.co.uk/?p=833
You will see my comment at the bottom of the page, I don’t think from those numbers if extrapolated up that the wages add up. But everyone likes to go with them.
As regards the long short and long term future is concerned, I think that the general belief that most hold on AA is correct. Kroenke won’t throw money at the club, we will continue to function as we have at least until we see what impact FFP will have on the big spenders.
It is apparent that more English football clubs will go to the wall and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to if we had one less professional league in a few years time.
I think the pemiership should be reduced to 18 or maybe even 16 clubs and a winter break introduced otherwise career threatening injuries to players will increase.
I agree GiE that the figures cited contain a degree of conjecture and will not be 100% reliable – but probably not a million miles from the truth.
According to TSR only 4 PL clubs made a profit last season.
Maybe i have lost touch with reality but looking at the players wages that GIE linked us to,, even allowing for say a 20% adjustment, they are insane.
Rasp,
I so dislike that phrase ‘not a million miles away’. Supposing the figures are only 60% reliable, does that mean we can still all take them as ‘nearly the truth’?
Did you see that Arsenal Truth breakdown of the wages? Pure guesswork, but I’ve seen the figures in there quoted as fact elsewhere. When challenged, people always say, ‘well they’re not a million miles away’!
New Post ……..
OK chas, since the figures to produce ‘absolute facts’ are not available to us, substitute that phrase for accurate within a reasonable margin 😕
It’s difficult to find educated people in this particular topic, however, you seem like you know what you’re
talking about! Thanks
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