OK it’s been a bad week but let’s put our disappointments behind us and put our focus on what’s ahead. We have a very exciting run in for 4th place, and a spot in the 2012/13 Champions League, with four teams involved – Arsenal – Chelsea – Liverpool and Newcastle. For the purposes of this item I’m going to make the broad assumption that it’s most likely to be either Arsenal or Chelsea that wins the 4th spot even though both Newcastle and Liverpool are also in with more than a good shot.
There are 13 games left in the season and an analysis of our final 13 games in each of the 19 EPL seasons (shown below) shows that we have achieved an average of 26 points with a high of 39 points in 2001/2 and a low of 14 points in 1994/5, and last season we had only 18 points.
So it’s all down to the final 13 games to determine which team is most likely to win the 4th spot. Both teams have been below par this season and both are in jeopardy of being knocked out in the last 16 of this seasons Champions League after Arsenal losing 0-4 to A.C. Milan and Chelsea 1-3 to Napoli.
Currently we are tied with Chelsea with 43 points each, we have the same goal difference of 13, and we are only in 4th place by virtue of having scored more goals our 48 to their 44.
In the history of the EPL it has taken an average of 68 points to gain 4th place, the highest being 76 points in 2007/8, the lowest being 63 points in 1995/96 and last season we achieved 4th with 68 points.
I’ve compiled a chart (below) showing the final 13 games of the season for both teams and I’ve also filled in my personal predictions for each game – I have Arsenal beating Chelsea by 4 points. I recognize that I’m being very optimistic as we would have to get 30 points in our last 13 games and we have not achieved that amount since 2004/5.
Play the prediction game yourself – How do you see the season ending?
Written by GunnerN5
Morning all, good pointer for how the rest of our season lies in front of us N5. I touched on our late season form the other day and how we often veer into collapse territory during the run in to the end of the season – this we cannot afford to do this time around.
It’s so close to call and I’m trying not to stress out about those “last 13 Cup finals” we have.
Obviously our home game against the Chavs will be pivotal, hopefully by then the Chav dressing room will be in complete disarray.
More concerned by Liverpool than Chelsea, myself, as it doesn’t look like their issues with AVB will be disappearing. If we can maintain a 4 point gap over Liverpool after our next 3 games i’d be delighted. I can’t see either ourselves or Chelsea going on a particularly good run, and while Liverpool haven’t looked anything special all season, once they (most likely) win the Carling Cup, it could give the squad the boost it requires.
Newcastle have probably been the best team at nicking results in tight games, so it’s vital we beat them at home to open up a gap. At this point, i’d 5 points from 9 (draws against Spurs and Liverpool and a win over Newcastle) and then hope to go on a decent run in the Final 10 games.
Hi James, absolutely agree….thanks for putting the situation in a post N5 it certainly crystallises it!
Arsenal‘s form has not been particularly good in recent seasons due to injuries to some key players and our inability to hold on to some important ones like fabregas and nasri,coupled with lack of investment into the team.nevertheless,i still see arsenal leapfrogging bitter and noisy rivals tottenham into 3rd position come may.i still have faith in wenger as he is the right man to bring back the lost glory to arsenal.
I think it will go to the wire with us Chelsea and Liverpool.
With Chelsea playing ourselves, Newcastle and Liverpool in their last 5 games, I can see them struggling to finish 4th. On paper, Liverpool have the easiest fixtures, but at the same time, they have 4 points to catch up and probably the worst home form and squad of the 3.
It will be very tight,but of we can find form quicker than Chelsea then I would fancy our chances.
A lot will hinge on the CC Final for Liverpool.
We all know how that can affect the season!
Thanks for laying it all out Gn5
As you say, you’re probably being a bit optimistic thinking we’ll get 30 points, but when I looked through your predicted results they all made sense 🙂
So I’m with you – fourth place here we come! (Or third when the Spudders implode/explode) 🙂
13 wins would put us back in the title race – 82 points
Great post and I’ve ben doing much ummm’ing.
We know how some players are motivated by trophies (as well as money), so I think it may come down to which squad wants it the most. On that level, I certainly wouldn’t rule out Pool, but for the sake of this discussion, I would say our boys would edge it over Chelsea. I just have a feeling they may have too many want-away players and would see no personal gain in slogging their guts out simply for Chelsea to qualify for next season’s CL.
That leaves us. If we win on Sunday, then I believe tails will be up and we will be off into the sunset like a Turd of Hurtles. Lose, and it will test our resolve and Arsene’s powers of motivation, and that does worry me a little.
I did not mean to ignore your comment about my list of AA ‘humorists’, ‘chuckle merchants’, ‘joy bringers’ especially my friend Gooner “I like pugs – but I could not eat a whole one” Michael, but I simply forgot.
I did not exclude anyone – instead I wrote “and many others too numerous to mention”.
To the list I could also have added the lovely Irish who has always made me laugh since I first found AA, and indeed the Reserves-watching, broke back duo -TA and GIE, not to mention Spanish Kelsey, LB, Slim, Oz, Illybongani, (where is he?), Herb, etc, etc, all of whom are not short of comic quips.
There are so many others too – humorists all of them — but go ahead — make your own list and don’t worry about mine. It’s a free country!! 🙂
10 wins would give us an early May St. Toteringhams day
Well done GN5, that Post will have been the result of much thought and preparation. 🙂
I would never commit myself to such a bold statement, because it will leave you a hostage to fortune, the subject of much mickey taking if your predictions are wrong, but quietly forgotten in the euphoria if you are proven right!
Not sure what that says about a chicken, like me, but more power to your cojones!! 🙂
Not Arsenal related, but might be of interest….
RA – I know, we must be foocking comedians to think that ours is the greatest team in the world 🙂
Micky ignored my comment though. Oi Micky, so how about that tattoo? next time you are in London we could have one (each) done, something discreet and classy, like a strategically placed cannon.
Monster – no suggestions from you please
Where is everyone today.I keep on hitting F5 to refresh but still end up with the last comment.
Good post N5.If beat the tax evaders on sunday it will give a massive boast to the Team/funs.The team will have to put in an extra shift on Sunday.Hope Liverpool get beaten by Cardiff and suffer the Carling Cup syndrome like we did last season by losing games in a trot.
You go first 🙂
great idea for a post G5, like the thought provokers. It will be us vs Chelsea no question. Liverpool are up and down like a yo-yo. Thankfully Chelsea have a want away drogba and a misfiring torres (plus a missing racist for 6 weeks, leaving them with the error prone luiz or settling in cahill).
haha i like that stat, has a good ring to it.
@ The posts during the week + those that comment
thank you immensely for the great posts throughout the week. Rocky…brilliant as always, slim, GiE + TA, and chas for the very much appreciated match report.
@ The Cuckoo Club
you lot are bloody hilarious, every night something funnier than the next. As the saying goes, i come for the arsenal, i stay for the people
glad you liked the pic, and that you back from behind the sofa. lucky we are going to annihilate the spuds on sunday otherwise we wouldn’t see you until next year
just to get the excitement going!
Oz – I loved the picture, thank you. Where were you??
Micky – no, not without you 🙂 We would look a right pair walking into a tattoo parlour 🙂
sorry been sorting out uni stuff before i go back next week, and don’t like to comment until i’ve caught up with all the posts + comments.
Oz – those two bears are really funny
Whole week of posts and comments?? That’s another week’s work cut out for you! You’ll never finish your studies
BTW, I wasn’t behind a sofa, I was in bed duvet diving, so.
Sunday is getting soooo close….grrrrhhhhhh
I was in Costco today and 2 guys were having a conversation about Sunday’s game, teasing each other. One was a gorgeous tall dark young manager and the other old, little toothless cleaner. Which do you think was a Gunner?
haha it does take a while but luckily i don’t sleep much and every post/comment is worth it.
haha i hope GLIC doesn’t grab a hold of that second line and cause trouble in it. Duvet sounds very posh, a lot classier than calling it a doona like us.
So being a scum fan wasn’t the only bad choice he made in life then. I can’t wait for the game, i hate waiting a week after a lose, plus we need to cancel out that lucky win they had at the start of the season
Oz – the best duvet I ever had i bought in Sydney, pure australian wook and sheer luxury. Cannot get them in UK and it is a long way to travel for a blanket
Yeah, the cleaner was a Spud 🙂 I am telling 100% truth, honest, it was rather funny
I am not really looking forward to Sunday. It is going to be a hot sunny day in North London, but I am dreading a storm. Thank God the Scum supporter accross the road died last year, he would be taking the piss big time
sounds too good evonne. A good doona and a nice comfy bed make a day of trouble disappear!
haha i have no doubt, poor bloke though, spud fan, cleaner, toothless. His dad must of ran over a black cat on friday the 13th after only just having slipped over on some salt that he spilled resulting in a broken mirror and an umbrella opening inside!
No way, its a derby so form means nothing! We will lift for the game and everything will fall into place nicely. The defence, midfield, and attack will be operating like a well oiled arsenal machine. My only worry is parker. We can’t pass non-stop with him patrolling the midfield because he is great at closing down space and hunting down the ball. When playing for England he looks very mediocre when teams pass and move quickly, exposing his speed. Do that, and we will win!
Evening all, I’m hearing that a loan fee is being negotiated for Arshavin , but it has to be done by 8 pm this eve. I will post more as I find out
Does that mean we are so hard up for money we can’t afford his wages until the end of the season?
Hi Chas, what disappoints me more is that we have clearly learnt nothing from the summer in terms of leaving things until the last minute
That really would be an odd story Wonderman.
Back to Chelsea for a moment. Someone mentioned Drogba wanting out, and Terry injured but I reckon Anelka, Cashley and even Fat Frank may look for last big money moves.
Interesting post, GN5.
At first I was astonished that there were two seasons where we scored less points in the last 13 games than last season, but then you see they came when George Graham went bad and it all becomes clear.
2001/2…… thirteen games on the bounce. How we could do with a finish to the season like that.
We will know more in the next couple of hours
I thought Anelka had already gone?? The problem Frank has is who would buy him ?
Didn’t you see Anelka playing in a park in China already?
So you’re happy for him to go but wished it had been sooner?
Here you go.
It would be a mistake to let Arshavin go right now.
It’s not as if we’re flush with brilliant attacking players at the moment. He’s frustrating but he can do a bit of magic every now and then, like that cross for TH’s goal up at Sunderland.
We can’t bring in any new people (unless the Russian TW operates both ways and we have lined up a Russki loanee) so it seems daft to further deplete our resources.
If it’s time to move him on, let’s do it in the summer when we can get a replacement.
And it sounds like he played really well in the reserves game midweek.
One blogger likes this post. A Chelsea fan from Mumbai. 🙂
I honestly thought he played for the reserves to give him a bit of match practice for Sunday, not to prove he can still put on his football boots to Zenit.
What the feck is going on at our club?
Evening all, GN5 unfortunately my like for like (same opponents) has us and Chelsea 4 points behind last seasons total achieved from the same games. Going forward for the last 13 games Chelsea managed to get 24 points from their remaining fixtures last season, we managed 21.
So for me its going to go down to both teams games against Spuds at home Liverpool Away and playing each other. I’m not too worried about Liverpool they have gained nothing on where they were this time last year and only managed 19 points from their remaining fixtures.
I also think we are going to have to win in some pretty unhappy hunting grounds (The Britannia) if we were going to take fourth.
We are certainly in the mix but will we have the fight.
Last season the title faded away as we couldn’t find the ability to turn draws into wins. Those five draws in the run in cost us the title, this year the financial cost of a run like that is even bigger.
Sky Sports reporting a loan deal for AA has been done.
oops logged in under the wrong persona there
This Arshavin deal is a big surprise, but perhaps Andrei just doesn’t want to be there or is upsetting the mojo of others.
I’m surprised because he seemed to enjoy himself for the Reserves and was helping youngsters out around him.
What a sneaky undercover sod you are GIE. 🙂
Were you the rogue who impersonated everyone a couple of months ago? And blamed me?????? 🙂
By the way final quickie from me before i dash off out again.
I’m surprised no one has commented on this:
“REDaction are pleased to see the announcement that there will be no rises in the general admission season ticket price for 2012/2013 season. Various fans groups, REDaction among them, have made their feelings known to the club during the present season, but special mentions must go to the AST, AISA and BSM who have been at the forefront of this negotiation.
When Arsenal fans work together, it shows what we can achieve.
REDaction will also take this opportunity to state that despite our initial plans, there will be no fan led activities or displays at the AC Milan home leg. Following the first leg result, and the continuing divisions in the fanbase, REDaction feel it would not be an efficient use of our resources to spend money and time on activities to motivate the fans at a match which is sure to be played out in a subdued atmosphere, as the struggles on the pitch continue.
Thanks to all fans who contributed suggestions when requested ; We intend to put these to better use next season.
Finally ; Sunday is a massive game for the club and supporters. It’s time to put all the negativity behind us and get behind the team instead. Whatever your thoughts on the current problems at the club at board, manager, or player level, this must be secondary on Derby Day.
Victory through Harmony”
very strange if true.perhaps getting games in him in an attempt to push for more money if hes sold
No! Hang on, I remember now that WAS me! Tut, tut!! 👿
Haha RA no not guilty!
Also is this AA23 a result of a fake twitter account in his name which announced it?
The AFC Under 14’s re off to Barca:
I thought loaning out Frimpong was nuts but loaning out AA (if true) surpasses that by some way.
I can’t believe we would be that daft – he could make the difference between CL and no CL
Oz – I love your comment: ‘its a derby so form means nothing! ‘
Rasp it is nuts….you are right.
Fans have made him virtually unplayable tho, we are getting good at that don’t you think? No matter how stubborn the player or Wenger is its going to affect them sooner or later and the decisions made.
But I have a feeling it’s more to do with AA23 wanting game time ahead of the Euros.
Obviously I need to add a big if true to the last para.
Say it ain’t so! Any loan deal at this stage of the season is madness, though I was wondering why The Ox was getting so much game time.
Gn5. Interesting post and well done on the stats. Must have taken ages!
Will we get 4th? Is it for the best if we don’t? Change is needed, if not in personnel then in outlook. A sharp shock may help in that process and make the players and management realise that just because we are The Arsenal it doesn’t mean CL is de rigeur.
GIE. Sod that. Who pays the Meerkats wages? His ambitions are secondary to the club
I feel I have to add my voice to the ‘what kind of madness is this?’ to move Arsh at this point in the season. The beginning of January would have made slightly more sense ……… or wait until the summer.
Hi Chas , I find the timing of it bizarre but Arshavin has never been played in his rightful position IMO, and consequently we have never seen the very best of him. The Man U game was the final straw, and if i were him I wouldnt want to be busting my guts for a bunch of ‘supporters’ who had booed me either
I agree with all of you — I can understand it from AA’s point of view, but not from Arsenal’s point of view.
BUT, it is still in the category of “if, maybe, perhaps’ so I will believe it only when AFC announce it.
Wonderman. Much as it pains me to disagree with you but what makes you a better judge of a players best position than the man who has worked with him daily for the past 3 years ?
Playing centrally in a very poor Russia team is hardly the same as the PL.
My nephew has just been given a two year contract with spuds, can this season get any worse?
Just got another message from my brother: “I was the parent that had to deliver the bad news but for some reason Tom (my nephew) was pleased.”
Hi BR, don’t feel pain mate lol… Arshavin at his best( before we bought him) was not a left sided forward in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Therefore his required adjustment would have been excaserbated. IMO because Wenger was successful in turning Petite from a CB to midfield, and Henry from Winger to lethal striker he has believed that he can repeat the feat.
In Arshavin i believe he has failed because the player didn’t buy into the alteration after a while.
Imo with Walcott we are seeing a player who clearly doesn’t have the ingredients of a winger ala Bale/Valencia/Ox but because he is young he has persisted in trying to succeed.
My comment had nothing to do with the Russian national team, even in Russia they are slating him as they believe that he is a spent force, but I think how he has been deployed has been just as responsible
LB – contract doing what? It could be a blessing, can he cook lasagne?
“I`m a Sun reader”, there I`ve got it out of my system. It`s not just the “DUGS”, the Sport`s pages, the Motoring bit and Frankie Boyle, It`s 30p, Bargain !. Today they had slang words from 1811, ” The Dictionary Of The Vulgar Tongue “. I wonder what “DUGS” are….duh ! and guess what “Wigsby” means Terry….duh !, “thats a fine dead pussy on your head kind Sir, I`ll have you know this is my very own hair, you ” window peeper “, now bugger off before i kick you in the ” Twiddle-Diddles”.
GiE, Next time you “Shoot the Cat ” when in goal for the Stiff`s, do it over their CF.
I have booked marked it for future reading.
Brave GN5, Being a optimistic soothsayer will only lead to tears.
I`m afraid, a gifted professional footballer standing with his hands on hips watching the game go by is unforgivable imo, Maybe he will gain miraculous stamina as did Cesc find an injury curing magic potion away from THOF !
From the other day, Look up Colemanballs if you like the sporting commentary gaffs ! 🙂
By the way it is not correct to say that Wenger has never tried AA in the old Cesc role — he played there against Bolton in the CC……………………and in my view was very good.
I have used this analogy before but Arshavin does strike me as a race horse that has been made to pull a carriage, he did it with gusto at the beginning but he has gradually lost what it takes to be a thoroughbred.
In time Ramsey will grow into a better player and there is no denying that Rosicky is putting in some spirited performances but we need someone capable of delivering magic behind Van Persie………..I would play the Russian there on Sunday.
I am trying to find ways to cheer myself up.
Im sorry, but many people on here, including myself, have often said they wanted to see the back of AA23. Now it’s happened and people are bewildered by the decision!
If it’s 90k off the wage bill then it’s good for the club. There aren’t going to be many takers for him come the summer on those of wages, so it’s right that we would offload him to any taker, even if it means loaning him out now.
We still have Gerv, Theo, Ox and even Rosicky or Benny if needed. Not long ago people would rather have seen Benny or Rosicky starting over AA23 so I don’t see the problem myself.
I liked the little Ruski and always prayed that he would come good, but it hasn’t happened. Time to move on.
You may have been right about the uncontrollable body movements being some kind of tourettes, as it`s not just swearing but also body movements. The reason I asked the question was that on Wednesday I had a salesman turn up for a discussion on a Log cabin purchase. It turned into the mother of all cringeness with my ability to put my foot in it. I will tell this story at the next “Tavern” meeting as it`s to much for written words. Just ask about me about the “Tourettes Salesman episode”
Slim – ditto. I was over the moon when he arrived at the Ems and demolished Pool, performance never to be repeated
And i wish him luck, hope he will do well elsewhere
Is it true then, has AA gone to Zenit on loan? I for one, never said I wanted him gone and would be disgusted if he was loaned out at this critical time. Even if no-one rates him as 1st or 2nd choice, surely no-one is daft enough not to expect us to get injuries on that side after the season we’ve had so far.
It seems we have a club that is ambitious for everyone except ourselves.
How does loaning out Arshavin show that we have no ambition?
Does anyone have the faintest idea whether it’s real or not?
RL. Only what is coming on Newsnow.
According to Sky Sports News it’s been completed. It’s running along the bottom of the screen at the moment.
So AA23 has confirmed it officially – he’s gone to Zenit.
Looks like he’s had enough of the fan hatred and I guess many here are glad to see the back of him.
But don’t worry, if we need a touch of world class attacking play to split open a tight defence we can always rely on Diaby for that.
So long Andrey, I’ll always remember your time here fondly.
4 years ago today Taylor broke Eduardo’s leg.
Chary. I have always liked AA but it cannot be denied his career stalled with us and it is down to him not AW.
A great player lifts his team – AA couldn’t do that consistently.
But I wish him well.
2009 & 2010 60 games 20 goals 15 assists
2011 & 2012. 38 games. 3 goals. 5 assists
True to an extent Radders, for one reason or other we haven’t seen the best of him lately, it’s just that why are we offloading an option off the bench and replacing it with…what ?
Are we saying that we have enough creativity and can afford to lose an option off the bench with no replacement ?
If he’s not up to it, then by all means have a replacement ready before shipping it out, the mere fact he had a taker and certain others won’t get off our books shows who is in demand and who isn’t. Jeez, our squad management is puzzling to say the least.
Still, we luckily still have Squillacci, Djourou, Almunia, Diaby and their ilk to stink out our playing squad.
I think shipping him out now is a bad idea, it especially makes Wenger look a bit foolish when he only said this morning AA23 was going nowhere(admittedly he said “yet” but it still makes him look a like a mug IMVHO).
Letting Arshavin go shows we value a couple of million over the possibility of increasing our chance to get top 4. A truly appalling decision and one that is completely in keeping with the non football focus our administration has adopted.
I think it’s just you & me Raspers who are not impressed with this decision.
For some reason it has deflated my optimism for the rest of the season – out of 71 players could we not get rid off someone else first ??
We definitely needed all hands to the pump for our last 13* games – how exactly has shipping him out helped Arsenal look more likely to hold onto 4th spot ?
(* the AC Milan return leg is a dead rubber for all intents and purposes)
Arshavin as confirmed on hs website that he has gon on lan
Chary include me in the ‘ not impressed with ths decision’ . But we always seem to be more worried about the individuals than the collective.
I am more disturbed about the timing than the decision, but I suppose Park will get mre play now
I agree with you and Rasp. A terrible decision.
I don’t think any of the alternatives to Arshavin could have delivered that cross to Thierry up at Sunderland – which brought us two extra points.
Even if we think we’ll only use him occasionally and from the bench, he’s still an option.
Bizarre, baffling, befuddling and other things beginning with b…
Mind you, I did write a headline post on Jan 24th saying he was “gone”
Cool, Rocky/Wonderman, it looks like it’s “The gang if 4” lol.
It would have been ok if he had gone on the 24th of January cos we could have got someone else in, but now ??????
Four now, with Wonderman 🙂
The booing in the ManUre game can’t have helped his feelings about Arsenal, but we should be doing what’s best for us, not what’s best for him.
Did you just edit your comment? Sneaky 🙂
Yeah I had to Rocky, I didn’t scroll up to see Wonderman’s comment – “gang of 4” doesn’t work like it did for Shirley Williams, David Owen and David Steel as the original gang of 3.
And bang on about we should do what’s best for Arsenal, not what’s best for an individual player.
At least those who booed his introduction off the bench in that game will have to find a new boo-boy.
Sadly it won’t take them long.
I know we all have doubts about Theo, but let’s not forget that he has had a lot of outstanding games – even this season.
Sunday could be made for him, because the Spudders will definitely not play Parkez L’Autobus.
They’ll come at us and Theo will have space.
I could see him setting up a couple for Prince Robin 🙂
I meant to say, that Theo is probably next up for the boo treatment.
Yeah, I think you’re right Rocky, there’s been an undercurrent of resentment against Theo building up, he looks the next candidate.
What a lift it will be if we can beat them.
Evening all. Im not a fan of the little Russian but cant quite see what the advantage is to letting yet another player go off on loan. Its just yet another strange decision to go with the many others that have been made over the last 6 or 7 years by this regime. There’s a dozen or more players on the books who need to be gone, AA is just one of them but gone for good and replaced with better not just pushed aside.
Rocky, we need a lift at the moment that’s for sure.
Surely were due a bit of good fortune from the footballing gods ?!
Gang of Five now – welcome aboard Barum 🙂
Aha the gang of four are unhappy 🙂 Well gentlemen he has taken a lot of stick of late, it seems the Russians are paying his wages plus £1.million loan fee, just till July, AA was desperate to go as the Russian coach had told him he needed match practice to get in the European championship side. AW has maybe done him a favour and if he gets his form back we dont have to sell him.But the E championships are a genuine shop window for him could make us a lot of money.
As for me I prefer Diaby to him anyway.
OK 5 then if you must be pedantic 🙂
That’s the point dandan, Wenger would rather do a player a favour than tell him to stay, fight for his place and prove himself.
Cowardly decision, IMVHO.
Diaby, saviour of the Arsenal midfield ?
If he were to make just one more contribution for us (like the one at Sunderland) between now and the end of the season, turning a draw into a win, those two extra points might be what get us 4th spot.
Everything you have said is true, but I still think it’s a bad decision and, the way Arsene’s luck goes, will almost certainly be followed by a long term injury to one of our wide men in the next game or two.
Could not disagree more, AA has had his share of chances, Diaby has had his share of bad luck. Lets wait and see what happens
Right now, I would really welcome the return of a fit Diaby.
It’s just that “fit Diaby” is a bit like saying “dry rain”.
I dont know about any1 else but to me this is the making of the best side we have had in years. The back 5 of Ches, Gibbs, Sagna, Verm and Kos is def the best in some time. I refuse to listen to any1 criticising Rambo, Song and Arteta have been playing well, Theo has had his ups and downs but is nowhere near as bad as the manc commentators would have us believe and RVP is in the form of his life and Gerv or the ox have been direct and a breathe of fresh air to the tippy tappy sideways football of the past few years…..so what the hell is going wrong ? It can only be confidence,leadership and tactical awareness.
Evening Rocky were you to go back over this seasons posts I am sure you will find AA stands accused by this blog of costing us far more thaan two points. Still thats football isnt it a Game of opinions.
He was certainly blamed by many for the ManUre loss after he came on for Oxo.
I’m not too sure about any other examples where he was specifically blamed for the loss of points, rather than just having his performance criticised generally.
Either way, he would still have been an option we could have used at times.
Sigh… maybe AW knows what he’s doing and it’s all part of a master plan…
I was hoping to see AA play some part against totnum, I am truly astounded by this decision – especially coming so close to AW saying he was going nowhere.
I shall be first in the queue outside WH Smiths if AW ever writes a warts ‘n all autobiography.
Unfortunately for me lads Diaby sums up all that is wrong with our great club at the moment. He should have been dismissed as a failed buy many moons ago but here he sits earning a good wage and doing nothing with the faint glimpse of hope that one season he may actually return some of that promise. Sadly he is a bad debt that needs to be written off.
Rocky, was it AA blamed or AW ?
Lets hope so Rocky,
On a lighter note, are any you lot meeting at the Tavern pre Spuds on Sunday?
Arsh was just showing signs of getting his edge back. Did we play him in the reserves last week just to showcase him for the prospective buyers?
Selling Na$ri in the summer for £22m despite denying it was on the cards is one thing, but letting AA go half way through a disappointing season can only lead to one conclusion.
Evening Rasp. Maybe the Gerv will do it for you tomorrow
Just to clarify altho I gave justification above I’m not condoning it. I like most right minded Gooners wanted our little Russian to turn a corner.
But he is virtually unpickable, which means he is of no use. Also a bad egg in the camp is never good. If he sulked every time he wasn’t chosen to start then we don’t need it.
Remind me what everyone thought of Cesc last season and Nasri for that matter? Playing but their hearts not in it from memory…
For Wenger he has to do the best by the squad, and if there was a chance AA23 would turn into or was a troublemaker perhaps it’s best he goes. If we fail to qualify for CL it will be another weapon in the armoury of the detractors, if we qualify I bet it won’t be seen as a master stroke.
We don’t do good news at the moment do we?
Evening AA’ers, gang of two here (maybe three: BR?). Happy Arshavin is gone. Very surprisingly, he worked very hard on Tuesday against the Norwich Reserves, and now I know why. Great talent but not a team player, seldom or never worked hard and consistent enough. To me he seemed to always care a lot more about himself than the team, and that’s just not good enough.
Apologies to all Arshavinists for this comment 🙂
I think it is fair to say that with the emergence of the OX, the little Russian was pushed to third choice and in the cold light of day if you were to start with Gerv and Theo would you want AA or Alex on the bench ?
Doesn’t the offloading of AA show ambition in the way that we are no longer going to put up with poor performances?
Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner and now Arshavin have all been loaned out this season due to lack of quality. They have all had numerous chances to prove their worth and none moreso than the little Russian. Hes obviously not happy here as his performances have shown so why not make as much money out of him as possible.
If he’s in the Euros and does well then we make an extra few million on him. He was never going to be the difference between us finishing 4th or 5th based on his previous 12 months at the club. He’s been shit for 18 months, at least 6 months too long.
I’m not sure if im in a gang alone ? I do think it odd that he has gone on loan but am glad that this will be the last we see of him in the Arsenal colours, even if it becomes yet another long winded drawn-out process.
Fairplay Slim. We sell as a sub now or a star (fingers-crossed) in 5-6 months.
SGG, AA’s assists show that he has been an important cog even though he hasn’t been in his best form of late. To claim that we are showing ambition by letting him go presumably means that we should let Theo go? We’d let Almunia, Bendtner and Denilson go permanently if anyone was the slightest bit interested.
Thanks, I hope Gerv does produce the goods against totnum, but he will never post the goalscorng theat that AA did.
Or Arsh plays crap for Zenit, they don’t make us an offer in the summer and he stays on the books…..
Rasp – can you put the Tavern widget up at some point please
There’s me, chas, VCC, gm and Brigham atm
AA has either started or been on the bench for most games this season – hardly a marginal player. He was played in the centre up front for weeks when RvP was injured.
We are unique in the Premiership, a club with only one striker. I don’t consider Chamakh a striker and Park doesn’t get a look in – so I’ve got a good idea, let’s loan out one of the few players who can get us a goal or provide an assist.
Anyone got an idea for a new gravatar for me – I thought of a clown with an Arsenal scarf 😦
Here’s a last look at the little fella …………
I find it puzzling reading tonight’s comments.
CharyB has made it plain on a number of occasions that he has not rated AA. Now he is unhappy that he has been let go and uses that as a stick to beat the ‘foolish mug’ Wenger. How does that work?
Many bloggers bemoan the ‘fact’ that players such as Cesc and Nasri have shown little or no loyalty to the club.
But hold on, Diaby having received a terrible injury playing for Arsenal, and having had persistent injury problems since, as a consequence, is treated to the ‘loyal’ sentiment branding him a failure and wanting to kick him out of the club. Yeah. Loyalty right?
Sadly AA has suffered a poor record for a considerable time, especially this season, particularly after such a dynamic start to his Arsenal career. He was not going to get any better at his age, I suppose, so many fans would be relaxed about releasing him because it makes sense —– in the Summer!!
Therefore, what does not make sense is the timing of the loan – again it has been all last minute — he arrived that way and now he goes that way. Weird!
With Kroenke over here for a Board meeting and staying for the Spuds game, you wonder how much input AW had.
I just do not buy into the idea that a manager, under pressure because of poor performances, would willing release a player who at the very least was capable of pulling off a bit of magic that could have made all the difference between 4th and 5th.
And for what? To save a petty cash sum of £xx for three months? Seriously?
I am really pee’d off about this whole thing!
I am amazed how rose-tinted your AA glasses are. Just look at the stats BR put up earlier. His workrate/ tracking back is so bad that the rest of the team often has to operate out of formation and game plan to compensate for him. I would rather play the Gerv, the Ox, Diaby, Gibbs, even Park or Risicky on the left wing before picking Arshavin.
Hang on Rasp,
Are you saying that we should keep AA because he’s our 2nd choice striker!? Come off it!
As for him ‘ playing badly of late’, if of late means 12-18 months then fair enough.
If any money raised from his sale is used to strengthen the squad then I’d say that shows the ambition and ‘bad player clear out’ we have all been looking for recently.
That’s why I put in my comment earlier that I’d love to read AW’s autobiography one day.
He has had a strange relationship with Arsh. It was rumoured that he didn’t want him in the first place (I wonder if he wanted Park?)
He played him when injured often – once with 3 stitches in his foot. He played him out of position in the centre where he just got battered by big defenders and then he left him out of an FA cup semi final against the mancs when he was in good form. AW was resposnible for the booing when AA replaced the Ox – that was nothing to do with Arshavin.
I don’t know whether AW was happy to let him go or not, but I’d be very unhappy if it turned out he did.
Evening RA this one is not rushed it has been common knowledge for weeks that the Russian Clubs have been after him and the Russian coach told him he had to play to be match fit.
In my book it was inevitable given his lack of application for us.
But I am afraid AW is damned if his does and damned if he doesn’t among some of the Emirates faithful.
Such is the way of the football manager
No SGG, I’m saying that when we are really struggling to make the CL for next season and will face a £45m loss in income together with many other damaging side effects, the idea of letting any player go who could assist that cause is completely bonkers.
Arshavin is a better goalscorer than either Chamakh or Park (the latter because we’ll never know)
The money raised from the sale will be useless to us if we don’t make the CL.
When are we going to grow up on this site and stop using the fall back excuse that its the fans fault instead of looking at the source of the problem – where the decisions are made.
It is the management that is failing. We have the money, we have the facilities, we have the stadium, we have the fanbase, we have the potential – so what’s missing? …. its not rocket science.
Some on this sight Rasp actually think its a good decision by the club and the board to let a player go who has been awful for over a year
His finishing has been piss poor and his performances not much better. If it was the Arshavin we saw when he first arrived then I would agree with you, but he went back to Russia 2 seasons ago.
The fact that there have been rumours that the Russkie clubs have been in for AA for some weeks, makes my point about the nonsense of delaying the agreement to loan him out until the last knockings.
It wasn’t because we were playing hardball in trying to get a better sale price – the reason given by some for the delay in selling Nasri – so the money involved is peanuts.
I am not normally given to mad rushes of conjecture, that is not in my character or training, but the juxtaposition of a last day agreement to loan AA out, as you say, weeks after the alleged first approach by Zenit, and a visit to London by Hissing Sid – sorry, Stan, makes me think that this was not particularly planned and was rushed. Sorry!
SGG, you keep making your point and I’ll keep making mine.
If there is even a 2% chance that AA could make the difference between making top 4 or not, then we should keep him. Actually the stats show that he is likely to chip in with 3 or 4 assists and probably at least 1 goal between now and the end of the season – and who have we brought in to replace him?
2011 & 2012. 38 games. 3 goals. 5 assists
30 weeks x £90k= £2.7m for 3 goals and 5 assists. That’s why the management is making a decision Rasp. His heart is no longer in it, he is not performing, he wants to go…yes rocket science indeed.
Sorry Rasp but when AA played with stitches I was impressed, as I was when he scored 4 against Liverpool and as I was with his attitude and enthusiasm…..but that was a long time ago. Maybe just maybe he is a clue to what is wrong ?
Grow up Rasp whatever for its bad enough growing old. 🙂 I just don’t agree with you, AA wanted away and was making that obvious he has got his wish if he performs we get more money for him.
CL will be nice if we can get it, but as I have said before not the end of the world if we don’t.
Tomorrow will be fun should we lose AA leaving will be the least of our worries, take my word for it. Loss of bragging rights against the spuds, now that is serious LOL 🙂 The Arsenal blogs will self-combust.
Completely disagree TA. Is Modric not performing for the spuds after he wanted to leave but was denied – did Samba sulk, no they turned in professonal performances
You and the others on here clearly don’t care a fig about ‘winning the trophy of 4th place’ otherwise you’d be as mad as I am. Loaning out Frimpong was mad – he played in the first game against the spuds and put in a good performance. Our management have once again shot themselves in the foot.
The point is not whether AA should have been sold, or not, we all know he is not the player he was, it is the timing of the deal that is all wrong.
Rasp is right. The management, which ultimately is Kroenke, have made another decision which is quite at odds with Wenger’s usual cautious approach, and which very few people who understand football and the importance of the last few months of any season, and particularly this disappointing season can understand or agree with.
The last Premier League game at Sunderland was won because AA put in an exquisite cross for Thierry to score and we took all three points putting us into 4th place.
He produced that cross when we never looked like scoring before he came on. Do you think it would be impossible for him to do that again, when we most need it?
I just find it difficult to understand why you think Arshavin is suddenly our great little hope, when his poor performances, along with many other players, have been the reason we are struggling to finish 4.
I can understand the surprise at the timing of the move, but there should be no surprise as to the reason why he has been shipped out. We have 3 or 4 players who on current form would be in front of AA. It’s only Wengers reluctance to drop him that has kept him anywhere near the first team, not his performances.
Anyway, I’ve made my point, night all.
Bugger me RA since when did one swallow make a summer, AA has not been at the races all season, lets hope he switches on now and makes us a few bob to buy someone who wants to play for us at season end.
Arshavin is not the reason we are declining, he is a symptom of it. Players of his, Cesc’s and RvP’s quality need others around them on the same wavelength to perform. Arshavin has admitted he has not been in good form, but even so, his contribution has been telling at times.
Hes got the same chance as Rosicky, Benny or Gerv of pulling out that cross. Except the other 3 would also do some running whilst on the pitch.
And the point about it being Kroenke’s decision is just more rumours that aren’t needed and don’t help the club in any way.
I haven’t said he’s our ray of hope, he’s a good little player who does have it in him to produce a bit of brilliance that can change a game – the assist for the Henry goal that got us 3 points against Sunderland for instance.
Answer me this simple question – how can we be stronger without him when we haven’t secured a relacement?
I would rather not bugger you DanDan with all due respect. 🙂
Like Slim, I have said my piece, based on logic, but I match your swallow and raise you with— “you can lead a horse to water but……………..”
Exactly my point Rasp. Something at the club turned AA from a combative worldclass player into a waste of space. What ? Management, training, philosophy. As I said earlier I genuinely believe we have some excellent players but something is wrong at the club and as much as I respect what Arsene has achieved I dont see a team who is managed effectively and playing to its full potential.
You are welcome to your opinion, but if you start throwing that rumour shit at me we are going to seriously fall out. Fuck OFF.
Gnite all the golf is good, going back to watching it.
bg, is AA a greater waste of space than Theo? (your terminology not mine)
Would you rather bring on Chamakh than Arsh if we need a goal?
Is the answer to not having enough quality to get rid of quality so the problem of getting the best out of great players goes away?
My view is based on gut feeling, but why not:
Arshavin’s performance against the Mancs was the last straw – he really embarrassed and angered Wenger on the day
So, Wenger sanctioned his sale or loan
The Russians, probably aware of the above, waited as long as possible to get the best deal (Arsenal do this all the time).
RA. Your stance is pure conjecture which is very unlike your usual fact based musings.
Perhaps there are good reasons for the timing of the loan
If he’s bad for the changing room and sulking then we can be stronger. But my point is that I don’t think it makes us weaker. More players doesn’t mean more quality.
Do the players not take any blame for the below par performances? Surely they are as much to blame as management?
My last word, without any personal animosity to the good folks on here.
In my opinion, letting any player go (and I would have included Frimpong in this before his unfortunate injury) who could play a part in our quest for top four at this vital time makes no sense at all to me unless the management are simply looking to make some money in the short term.
Ah Redders, you are confusing me with someone else. I don’t know which occasions you are referring to when you say I said I don’t rate AA23.
All I can recall saying about him consistently is that he has been off form and i hoped for him to rediscover his midas touch.
I certainly didn’t use it as a stick to beat Wenger over the head with as I didn’t express an opinion on who I thought decided to allow the loan move.
In fact, when I said it made Wenger foolish I meant that someone hadn’t told him before his press conference today that AA23 was about to be loaned out. So in fact I was actually saying Wenger had been made to look foolish by the circumstances and it wasn’t good for his credibility.
Uncalled for really.
Rasp, ‘You and the others on here clearly don’t care a fig about ‘winning the trophy of 4th place’ otherwise you’d be as mad as I am’ –> come off it man!
The point I am trying to make to you in my last few comments is that we are better off without him: he costs us more points than he makes for us. You are looking at it too narrow imvho.
SGG, (sorry I did say that was my last word) there is absolutely no evidence that AA was bad for the dressing room. The vibes I got from watching the players suggested that he was popular – not a sulker and refreshingly honest about his level of performance.
I can see Chamakh being a problem in the dressing room because no-one seems to have a rapport with him on the pitch or off – but no-one would want to buy him any way.
OK TA, tell me who in the squad who does not already start in front of him (so excluding Gerv and the Ox) will do a better job for the side on the left than Arshavin?
Do we have much evidence that AA was a Gallas type disruptive influence/sulker in the dressing room ?
It doesn’t seem to be his style. I could be wrong of course as i saw him as a bit of a loner/individualist(even when he was in top form) rather than a bad apple.
That’s why I said ‘if’.
I totally agree with you about the timing of the loan, but I just feel we need to offload these players at some point and to do that we need to be proactive and get them out of the club whenever the opportunities arise, even of it is February!!! Lol
Anyway, I understand where your coming from but maybe we just see differently on this one.
I am in the camp which believes we are better without him. We have two left sided attackers – 3 with Bennie. All of whom offer more than AA.
Nite All. Much to discuss tomorrow
Rasp, I’m not sure if you read what I wrote earlier. Personally I like Theo and feel he has a place at the club. I liked AA and felt he had a place at the club but something ruined him ( whether it was the Russian teams failure or poor man-management by AW I dont know). Either way he is not and never has been a striker, If I feel sorry for any1 it is Chamakh, all he has actually done wrong is not be as good as Robin !
Of course SG, we can happily disagree – sorry about the other comment I should have removed it.
Surely you can appreciate that after the last minute trading in the summer, this laon will only serve to make the club look even more misguided (or even desperate!)
The PR is appaling, you couldn’t make it up. AW says he’s staying – and a few hours later he’s gone. There was no clever underlying motive here as has been suggested when we’re trying to buy a player. Either AW was trying to mislead or he just did’t know, so you have a choice between a manager who is being undermined or who deliberately sets out to deceive.
Rasp, I said earlier I would start Rosicky, Gibbs, Diaby (when fit again) and even Park instead of him. I agree with you he is a decent supersub, but his performance against MU was a big factor in us conceding the second Manc goal, and that was probably the last straw.
Do you think that finishing in the top-4 is valued higher by you than by the BoD/Wenger. They will have thought about this carefully and gone for the best decision. The risk of not finishing in the top-four is infinitely higher for them than it is for you and me.
Radders, awww ! Come over and join the “Arshavinistas” !
The logical side of me says we are better off shipping out underperforming players, but there’s a part of me that screams “We look small time!” by not getting someone else in before we ship him out.
It looks all reactive and last minute, just like last summers disasterous transfer window.
We will have injuries and players out with suspensions and I’m sure he’d a been needed at some stage in the remainder of the season.
I’m sorry I don’t agree about Chamakh. I think those early goals he got were the exception. He was not a goalscorer before he joined us. He can pretty much only score with his head – not great when we don’t have the players to pt in the crosses. He is the only player who comes under the category of striker I have ever known who cannot score with his feet – its unbelievable. He has no power or accuracy in his shot. He can’t take a free kick or a corner
Are Russians still allowed to go to other countries during their extended transfer window?
Maybe there’s a rabbit to be pulled out of a hat…
I liked the little Russian, even though he was a bit shit. Mind you ive liked all the players that have played for us, well, maybe with the excepion of Jeffers. Saw him outside Highbury once and he was rabidly looking at my trainers with certain theft in mind.
Anyway, hes gone, we move on. The only thing that matters to me this weekend is beating our dear neighbours and ime convinced we will give them a good stuffing.
Great post G5. You truly are the lord of stats. 4th is nailed on, for me its the race for 3rd, starting Sunday.
TA, this is where we fundamentally I disagree. I think the manager and/or the BoD have been responsible for some very poor decisions and yes, I consider the loan of Arshavin at this stage to be just one more.
Someone aske earlier – didn’t we think that te players are at least 50% cuplable for our poor form.
Hallelujah – that implies that some people are at least prepared to lapportion soime blame to the management. Its the management who buy the players, train the players, decide upon the team, devise the tactics, motivate them before and during the game …….. the management is the key.
You don’t need to apologise.
As for the PR stuff, I can understand your disappointment. Doesn’t do the club any favours.
Sorry, I have just seen your comment.
I take your point. I did say I am not given to conjecture, and that’s true, I realise that rumours are the life blood of blogs, but they are not something I am keen on, as I have made clear in my many months on AA.
But even the guy who threw the rumour crap at me, which really angered me, has now agreed the point Rasp and I were making all along, which is that the timing of the loan was not great.
It’s an opinion.
Leaving aside the Arsh issue, I’m interested in your comments about how we may not be getting the best out of some of our players because of training, motivation whatever.
I have some secret concerns that you might be right. It might make a good subject for a Post if you felt so inclined…
Sorry if I confused you with some one else — I must be imprinting SAF’s face onto Arshavin — it’s the effect you have on me! 🙂
SGG @ 10:54 “Do the players not take any blame for the below par performances? Surely they are as much to blame as management?”
SGG its a revelation that anyone even attributes 50% of the blame to the management sometimes. After all they select and buy the players, train them, pick the team, devise the tactics and motivate them before and during the game …. I’d say the management are worthy of half the blame.
TA @ 11:11 “Do you think that finishing in the top-4 is valued higher by you than by the BoD/Wenger. They will have thought about this carefully and gone for the best decision. The risk of not finishing in the top-four is infinitely higher for them than it is for you and me.”
Yes I do, they have other agendas.
Rasp, I want to see the management take responsibility and make a few changes. Arshavin is the one Arsenal player I do not rate for reasons I described earlier. Of course the management has made mistakes, but we need to move forward and use players who really want it and give their all, and who have the qualities to succeed at Arsenal.
When GiE and I watched the Reserves, it made us realise that there is so much talent at Arsenal and they need to be given a chance. Transition means making tough decisions and Arshavin had to go.
I can see your point of view, but just fundamentally disagree with you. But this is not the first time and it will surely not be the last 🙂
RL, thanks but I think it would just tur into a Love Arsene or hate Arsene debate.
Rasp, the reason I feel sorry for Cham is that his workrate before being replaced by RVP was second to none and maybe he is never going to be a lone striker but he did give his all. And again I fail to be able to blame a player for being purchased when he wasn’t really what was wanted in the first place but was free.
I’m off to bed now but my final point is that I dont blame players… I blame management.
No worries Redders, I didn’t recall slating AA, but advancing years can play tricks with ones memories and I wasn’t 100% sure.
I’ve always sung AA’s praises, although admittedly lately there’s not been so much to praise. 😦
Thanks TA, surely the management always has to take responsibility – because they are ultimately responsible, that’s what they’re there for.
Maybe AA’s removal has been as a result of some hard minded management decision – what a shame we didn’t exercise such steely control before we handed out lucrative contracts to players we cannot now offload.
Rasp, really? What sort of agenda would include poohpoohing the income of CL monies and drop in value of shares?
I think the majority of fans realise that the management has faults and are to blame for much of the things that have gone wrong. The problem is that the manager/management seem to get 99% of the blame from media, certain fans etc so we end up defending them, thus making it look as though they are not to blame at all.
TA, I agree we have some very exciting prospects in the reserves. But we must know that not many will make it into the fiirst team. A few years ago we were salivating over the likes of JET, Lansbury, etc etc …. even Bentley. It’s no good relying on potential, it can only be treated as ‘potential’ not a guarantee for the future.
Fair enough SGG,
Its late so I’m going to bid you all good night and look forward to your suggestions for my new gravatar 😕
While I’m here I feel like letting off steam about the 2 players I wish had been given the chop before my departed little fat russian chum – those 2 being Diaby and Djourou.
Both possessing a gormless expression when they either head the ball into their own net or concede a penalty through an inept tackle in our area.
I fear it’s an irrational dislike of them but whenever I see either of them i either want to kick the cat(if I had one) or scream “Noooooooooooooooo!”
Maybe Gervinho’s shiny forehead could be the answer! Afterall, he has replaced the Russian.
TA, I’ve just said goodnight and you’ve drawn me back in with your @ 11:35.
I think the management are guilty of looking at short term financial savings, maybe because there are things going on behind the scenes of which we are all unaware. They are ultra conservative and do not speculate to accumulate even in a small way. Worst of all, they don’t seem to learn from their mistakes.
We pay a huge amount for a slick PR department that continues to make us look like a bunch of amateurs. Ivan Gazidis is one of the most vacuous individuals I have ever come across – 90% style, 10 % content.
Rasp, I think GiE made good points earlier/yesterday? about the need to tie players to contracts and of course there are risks: some will not make it and sit on their contracts. Wenger has misjudged a few players too many in recent years. I still believe the management has made progress in moving underperforming or no longer performing players out (even though most are on loan-deals).
OK night all, I really am gone now.
Rasp, it just does not add up. But, I wrote a post about the issue and once you and Peaches have decided to issue it we can have the debate again 🙂 Good night and let’s hope the Gerv and the Ox will make us forget the little Russian for at least 1.45 hours on Sunday.
Ok ok ok, one last comment….
….Arshavin cost us points? Almunia cost us a league title if not two by my estimation. We carried on with him (and not because Sz was coming through) for 3 seasons when he was really poor. I was calling for Friedel years ago and look what a difference he’s made to the spuds. We have persisted much longer with players of a lesser quality than Arshavin in the past and continue to do so.
TA, as always, we’ll publish your post ASAP.
Rasp, fully agreed on Almunia! 🙂
All I want to know Is this, today ,whilst waiting for some traffic lights to change I looked over to the Dementia Clinic and wondered ,” what bright spark decided to install the Revolving doors ? ” .
glic – I went to see a Psyclic today, waste of time, the conversation just went round in circles..
If you’re still around, I have no issue with people disagreeing with my point of view, but I do have an issue with being told to fuck off when it’s totally uncalled for.
If you want to be a grown up about it and apologise then I accept.
If on the other hand you want to live up to your name and continue being an arse then please don’t respond to me again.
Evening all time to take a chill pill perhaps for all. Getting this heated at the loss of our 4th choice wide player.
If you really want to think about it with no emotion it is very simple to see why it was done late and why it was not done at the start of the transfer window, and that my friends is a small thing called the African Cup of Nations and therefore the loss of Gervinho. Keeping AA23 until his return makes perfect sense.
Now the fact we didn’t replace him? Well two reasons I guess…the first being we also brought in Thierry to cover for Cham (at whatever cost), and if one player impressed me on Wednesday to be played ahead of AA23 it was Yossi. I’d take him into battle alongside me over Arshavin everyday.
Just read a couple of comments. Glad I missed today. Hope you all kiss and make up tomorrow. I’m not bothered losing AA personally. he was too erratic and I’d rather have a player who was good 90% of the time than someone who’s genius 1% of the time and a hinderance the rest. see you in the morning.
Some strong opinions but it (mostly) stayed within the bounds of heated debate…
You may be right, but would you bet against one of our wide players getting badly crocked between now and the end of the season. And if so, would you quite like to have a little Russian fellow as back-up – even if only on the bench in the event of starting with Benny…?
It still seems a very odd move to me.
wow before bed i was thinking ‘another slow friday debate’…
On the AA thing, i’m very shocked. Yes he has been under performing but come on the only good thing about it is we save on wages, and he MAY find some form. But with 13 games left of the season what good does it do? People are throwing names out like Diaby…come on have we not learnt by now that we CANNOT rely on him. We should of taken him to the glue factory along time ago. My worry is kroenke has come back and said ‘loan out AA, he is not playing so we save on wages, and perhaps he can excel over there, get into the euro team and drive his transfer value up’. So in otherwords money money money! I disagree that someone like AA is a bad-egg, he is not a bendy, nasri type whinger.
i completely disagree with your opinion in regards to frimpong. The last game he played for us everyone saw that he needed game time and needed to gain that experience. He was sprinting to whoever had the ball and had little to no positional sense (something he could of learnt a lot quicker playing game after game at wolves, as opposed to playing scraps at arsenal).
At the time of the loan we had song, and coquelin (who was on fire and had just signed a new deal) so frimpong was 3rd in the pecking order. Sagna and gibbs were due back at the start of january until gibbs suffered a set back (yet again), so Arsene wasn’t to know coquelin would be needed to play RB/LB as cover. The loan system has done wonders for Wilshere, will do for ryo, and would have done for frimpong had he not been injured. The fact that coquelin when down twice just means you have some reinforcement behind your opinion. Had coquelin and frimpong not gone down, you would have had no justification and we would all be saying how good the loan deal was for Arsenal and frimpong!
i agree with almunia also.
pick the odd ones out! the two of them clearly cost us points that resulted in the lose of trophies.
Having just read all of the evening’s comments, I think this one from SGG at 11:37 sums up the current rift in the fanbase.
“I think the majority of fans realise that the management has faults and are to blame for much of the things that have gone wrong. The problem is that the manager/management seem to get 99% of the blame from media, certain fans etc so we end up defending them, thus making it look as though they are not to blame at all.”
I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been called an AKB because I’ll always defend the club to those who seem hell bent on destroying it, both from without and within.
I was speaking to a Forest supporter yesterday and, as usual, he had his media-driven view of the Arsenal situation. He said it was amusing how Wenger had turned Arsenal into Aston Villa. My reply was that Arsenal are still fourth and Aston Villa haven’t been fourth for 15 or 20 years. To him I must seem like a staunch Wenger supporter whereas I’m anything but. I just love the club.
I honestly thought Arshavin would play a part in the remainder of our season (however small that part may have been). That’s why I find the loan baffling.
Does it mean we now have two spaces free for non-homegrown players in the premiership squad? Perhaps Almunia can be un-delisted? Every cloud………….. 🙂
Well it all got a little heated on here last night and so many different opinions and various conspiracy theories.
My take on the whole situation most probably won’t go down well with most.
I truly believe the club have cocked up in so many ways starting when cesc and Nasri left, the last minute transfer deals in the Summer and now this loan deal with AA, tells me they have given up on CL this year and I expect a bigger than usual amount of transfers in and out this Summer.
ANC or not, Gervinho hasn’t settled yet as an automatic starter, Theo is much debated and his progress has stagnated, Park was a ridiculous buy. Now benyahoun has a good game against Norwich reserves and he is the new on loan Messiah.
Djourou now has a new contract at an alleged 50K a week.
Are we gifted with attackers who score regularly apart from RVP, the answer is no. So for a million quid we apparently we let AA go, the timing is absurd.
A month ago AW said that he didn’t think the OX was good enough to play regularly,but now he has changed his mind and yet he has played a few times,so whatever you think of AA and he clearly wasn’t in form he still has the ingrediant missing with many, that is intelligence.
Are we scratching the bottom of the barrel to get a 1 million loan fee and year and at the same time e.g. give Djourou a new deal.
None of it makes sense, so I will just sit back calmly and await the outcome of this season. Something is not right at the club. There, I have said it again.
very well said chas and kelsey, can’t argue with both those opinions.
i have a big problem with the djourou deal as it sends the wrong message to the fans and his team mates. Yes he is our fourth choice CB, but what does that say about Miquel and Bartley. Both have shown more so why keep him and squidge around?! doesn’t make any sense
Morning guys. Agree with your last statement Oz. It very much sums up the biggest failings for me by AW and the board. We seem to just give new and improved contracts to any1 who is willing to sign. Jd has had many years to stake a place at the club and seems like a decent enough lad but should be moved on as he is good but not good enough. I get angry with people when they say to me that Arsene likes to give youth a chance. Imo he does the opposite by clinging on to failures like JD, Diaby, Squidge, Rosicky, Almunia, Bendtner, AA, etc whilst the kids go out on loan.
My guess about Djourou:. He is still young and clearly intelligent. I think the management believe he can become a better player than he is showing at present, much like Song.
That said I feel much like Chary about him!
Oz, Miquel is 19 and already Captain of the reserves. HIs time will come and we need at least 4 CB’s.
Fully agree that the timing of the AA loan is bizarre but not the loan itself. As to the PR – well, you couldn’t make it up – AW will be absolutely fuming.
It makes me think that regardless of what happens this season there still isn’t going to be the big overhaul in the summer. The only way that would happen is if the first change was the ultimate change imo.
Kelsey I am not calling Yossi the new messiah because of a reserve game. I am saying he is an adequate 4th choice. More adequate perhaps than AA23 as I think he will fight and he clearly just wants to play football. Altho as I said at the time Arshavin also played well but maybe a Zenit man was watching.
All I was trying to do last night was calm a heated debate about a player who has been oft criticised as not good enough, not fit to wear the shirt, lazy, uninterested, 6month wonder choose the superlative abuse you have seen most regularly.
A month ago AW made the worst decision of his managerial career replacing Ox with AA….now?
Maybe it covers no ST price increase which the fans wanted. But again no one wants to celebrate that due to it being good news and even tho last seasons 6.5% was an “insult” freezing them this year is ignored. Like I said last night no one wants to hear good news.
Personally I would have liked to see AA23 stay as like others have said he is capable of turning a game. But it is hard to deny that he had become unpickable.
exactly right. people always say don’t blame the person who leaves for money because football is cut throat and you could be pushed out the door at any moment, but some players at arsenal never have to worry about that, yes he was great during a patch of games last season but his confidence is gone, and it may never come back. Should we have to suffer non-stop and hope he gets it back eventually?! apparently so. If footballers can be mercenaries then Arsene should be too.
Djourou you are not performing, then give miquel a go.
Theo you are too inconsistent, ox it’s your turn.
Diaby you are always injured so it’s a performance contract for you, otherwise heres the door, freeing up a spot on the squad for a reserve (lansbury), or a new player.
It’s sport not a nursing home, players shouldn’t be allowed to stick around for this long when they don’t perform
Another thing that shouldn’t be forgotten is new contracts don’t nevessary mean staying for another 4/5 years. Eboue signed one in January last year and was sold in July.
Couldnt agree more Oz. And by giving them such inflated wages (for the level they are) he prices them out of the market. Who else would pay him £50k a wk to take him off our hands ? Exactly why Almunia, Squid and NikB are still here just sitting around waiting for a bosman and earning a fortune.
Gie, haha like !
that comment was not directed at you, I for one regard you as an excellent observer of players at the club.Benyahoun only joined us with minutes left in the transfer window as Liverpool got Bellamy which was IMO a better loan deal for Liverpool than us. Benyahoun has hardly feautured and again an injury prone player as history tells us.Arteta apparently took a wage cut.
Now diaby, he above anyone who has suffered constant injuries was someone I really thought would be a huge asset to the team, not as a Viera but as an out and out attacking midfielder.
GIE. Exactly. If a Turkish club can pay Eboue’s wages then perhaps they are in line with other clubs.
Once again it is conjecture about JD’s wage. Nothing more.
kelsey. Arteta took a wage cut to come to AFC, so why would the club give JD 50k a week for his new contract ?.
In my opinion, it is errant nonsense to suggest he earns so much – my guess would be half that with with add ons for game time etc.
You said that Dempsey was offered less than 30k and yet we are rumoured to pay Denilson and NB over 50k.
I just do not believe it. No-one outside the club knows, and the figures just escalate to fit the argument.
What is the common link between Fabregas,Nasri,Clichy,RVP and Song. they all have the same adviser/agent = Darren Dein, yet David Dein is very very close friend of AW. Does that sit well with us. The whole thing stinks to me.David Dein will know exactly what is going on at the club and that in turn gives Dein junior an edge in any negotiations.with players.
Courtesy of Big Raddy @8:56
2009-10 60 games 20 goals 15 assists
2011-12 38 games. 3 goals 5 assists
Just a small word of support for Rasp, not that he really needs it but for anyone who doesn’t realise last night’s fascinating debate only happens because of Rasp’s heart felt beliefs, it took me a while to realise that his views are his own not influenced by anyone or anywhere else and he is naturally passionate about them.
Unsurprisingly I suspect to him, I disagree with every single point he made last night.
No I didn’t say that about Dempsey. He is on 28K a week at Fulham and was not interested in joining us, I never discosed a wage as it never got that far,but remember our total employee wage has gone up again to 130 million.
Kelsey I tend to agree I would have taken Bellamy too, but that was a full transfer wasn’t it? Or a free maybe as City paid him off. But whilst he was at Cardiff last season he said they shouldn’t sign him even if they got promoted to the PL as his wage demands would be too much and prevent then signing a few players rather than just him. Talking to a couple of Liverpool fans they say he cant play two games in a week because his knees are shot. At 32 on a two year contract I’m sure a lot of us would question £90k a week that was his reported earnings at City if he couldn’t play every game.
I’m trying to steer clear of wage debates from now on but someone posted a blog (Alex49 or something similar) where he listed all players and their wages obtained from an unnamed source not at the club. It totalled in the region of £80m and he stated that the other £50m was going in bonuses and such like. Me in my accounting way took his numbers for 25 players and added Employers NI, wages for coaches, youth, reserve, groundsmen and admin staff (earning £30k a year) and got to £130m without accounting for the Matchday staff. So we either pay no bonuses or he was off the mark.
He also believed Arshavin was on £65k a week and £15k for starting a game. If true its scandalous, but could explain why he stopped getting picked. 😀
I don’t care what others think, as a club we are penny pinching to such a degree it is an embarressment for the 5th richest club in the world.
Being careful is one thing,but this is ridiculous.
I would rather the club just came out and said, he have a huge stadium debt which we are gradually erasing and that for the next few years the club policy is to be extremely careful and therefore our expectations should be lowered.
If Djourou is on 20K a eek our total players wage bill should be at least a third less. same old story we pay potential a very good wage which in principal is fine, but how often does potential materialise.
We could in theory ship out 10 players this summer,but it won’t happen.
The weird thing in loaning AA less than 3 months before the end of season is the fact that there is no benefit to the Club whatsoever in doing that.
So, what the feck??
He wasn’t the best player in the squad, but not the worse either.
What was the reasoning behind the decision?? Perhaps to path the way for his permanent move to Russia? Or to give opportunity to other player?
But why NOW, in late Feb?
If you are reading, can you give me your opinion, it is the only opinion I trust on the subject, as to whether you think it is likely to be true that Arsenal’s wage bil is forty per cent higher than spuds?
Thank you in advance.
That was the first and hopefully the last time I will ever lose my cool when blogging.
I abhor the use of foul language or cussing, and regret and apologise for my expletive towards you.
It is no secret that I have little time for ‘rumours’ often a convenient word used for the spreading of lies and innuendos.
Usually it simply means gossip or deliberate exaggeration passed off as fact. Either way I do not like it.
The cause for my sudden lack of control? I took exception to your remark (below) that I was somehow indulging in the very thing I dislike so much and in doing so was hurting the club.
I am still angry about that, but I admit I could have handled it better.
February 24, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Hes got the same chance as Rosicky, Benny or Gerv of pulling out that cross. Except the other 3 would also do some running whilst on the pitch.
And the point about it being Kroenke’s decision is just more rumours that aren’t needed and don’t help the club in any way.”
So, when referring to the Board’s decision on whether or not to loan AA, I deliberately used the word “conjecture” meaning (in the context I used it) an opinion, (mine) based on my suspicions of admittedly limited facts.
In other words, I believe Kroenke is the boss and should take responsibility, and not leave Wenger to carry the can on its own.
That is a better way to have explained myself, rather than resorting to cussing you — but the problem would never have arisen if you had not offended me in the first place. OK?
Is there an employee in the land who would be happy for his or her wage to be made public?
Forgot to nail my colours on this.
For me, AA is not third choice wide left, but first/second choice AM. You all know I don’t believe we can play 4-3-3 withou a Cesc type AM, but we are where we are, and AW will not go 4-4-2, so the best option for AM is Rosicky or AA.
That’s why I wouldn’t loan him.
it was a free GIE and I tend to agree with you that n blogger knows how much exactly each player earns.
if it wasn’t for the dreaded agent a flat basic would be the answer according to age,experience etc and a bonus on results and a further bonus for achieving a trophy or top to 4th place scaled accordingly.
It’s in the latest accounts LB, look it up yourself.:)
The idea that the board’s principle motive in allowing Arshavin to go out on loan was to save a little bit of money is laughable.
Well said RA, you must have had an itch in your pyjamas 😉
Thank you for your honesty and your explanation of the word conjecture, which I was not familiar with! Maybe if I was, we would’ve avoided the argument. I knew i should’ve paid more attention in English!!!
I also apologise if I offended you. If I had known you were so against the rumours etc then I would certainly have chosen a better way of saying what I did.
Hello to you too LB.
That’s from yesterday. Or the day before 🙂
Sometimes reading down the comments is like panning for gold, you look expectantly for a little nugget to appear and quite often one will, for me the golden nuggest appeared at 5.49am this is an extract.
“I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been called an AKB because I’ll always defend the club to those who seem hell bent on destroying it, both from without and within.”
Chas, great comment but what were you doing up so early?
That’s not an itch in the Red Arse pyjamas. Its a venomous viper.
I think it was the day before that lol
I went to bed early!
I’m curious to know what you think the board’s principle motive in allowing Arshavin to go out on loan actually is?
Have we come to a sneaky agreement over some superstar they have on there books?
so are the rest of the comments dirt then?
Sorry, English is my fifth language.
Perhaps (he said in a quiet little offstage voice)
We pandered to the wishes of the player. AA wants a first team start in every game, he believes he is worth it and doesn’t perform well when coming on from the bench. Furthermore, he is the face of Russian football in the run-up to their holding the World Cup.
He wants out – his agent wants him out – we do not want an unhappy senior player – he is allowed to leave.
Money had nothing to do with it.
LB well the answer to your question is two fold.
Our total wages are £40m higher than those cretins in N17.
But there is a big but coming.
That does not necessarily mean the players wages are 40% higher. We have 25% more employees across the club (admin and football side). So it could be guessed that a proportion of the extra is coming from the extra staff, the extra staff that facilitate the extra revenue (chefs in diamond club and corporate boxes), sales staff selling corporate deals for the same areas. The extra costs of the best training facilities in the country etc etc. and finally the coaches that produce a player like Wilshere.
And that last thing is key, if our extra wage cost is to produce a player that we would have to sign given Rooney was £30m, Wickham went to Sunderland for £12m it is well worth it.
This AKB termanology is a bit of a joke it makes out that AW and not one other person is ultimately responsible for everything .
Anyway this is just a blog of passionate Arsenal supporters with different points of view and as I have said frequently some of you meet up quite regularly for games and one can express oneself and have a debate with one another and agree or disagree there can be no misunderstanding, whilst with different styles and level of writing, various statements,opinions, or facts can be unintentionally misunderstood
Above all I think the principle motive in letting Arshavin leave was an attempt to achieve a better sense of harmony in the dressing room in these troubled times.
Gervinho and the Ox will be ahead of him in the team selection for the rest of the season and just about the last thing the club needs is a (understandably I have to say) sulky face, mopping around the dressing room.
Arshavin is a footballer, he wants to play football, he wants to play in the Euros and the only way he can do that is by playing regular football. And there is another thing those Euros will be his shop window for the last decent contract he is ever likely to have; all in all, if I lost the opportunity to achieve these things, no matter how hard I tried, I would look a miserable get.
All in all the right decision was made for all parties involved.
The same applies to Fabianski, LB
Just for clarity, Spuds football revenue £161m, our football revenue £226m. Football revenue = Matchday, Broadcast, Prize Money, Sponsorships
I have always thought the term AKB was a joke, I suspect Chas has too.
Go to Le Grove and click on AKB Guide and then scroll down the comments, mine is about forth down — it still makes me laugh.
What applies to Fabianski?
I can see how it benefits Arshavin all too clearly.
So, AFC wanted to get rid of his sour Russian mug from the dressing room and possibly benefit from an increased sell on fee if his form picks up and he plays well at the Euro’s? It still seems mighty strange to me with 13 games of the season still to play.
I would agree with the theory that the most likely reason is playing time ahead of the Euros. Country more important than Club then.
Dirt….hmmm, some of them and others I could think of worse terms lol
Morning peeps! 🙂
I’m glad we have resolved that misunderstanding!
You are someone I encouraged to write headline Posts, because they are often interestingly different, and your good heart shows thru’ as well as your love of the Arsenal.
Just like me really 🙂 ……………except for writing Posts, which I am crap at, and no longer do!! 🙄
That comment was a bit scary, I used to have a lovely girlfriend of Indian extraction, and she often commented about my ‘viper’, and for a long time I took a quiet and manly pride in it, until I realised, at last, that all along she meant my car’s vindscreen viper — alas.
Kelsey, my darling, individual players salaries are not shown in the published Accounts, you tease! 🙂
Final contract = family more important than club or country.
Fabianski behind szcz, yet he wants to play in the euros. Can’t without playing time. Just like AA
Would all of this turn ugly if AA goes and plays AM for club and country and really sparkles?
At first I thought Kelsey was refering to individual contracts but if you look further up you will notice that he was answering another question.
Straws surely LB,
As you say final contract, therefore I reckon he’ll follow the money wherever his family are.
If he has a great Euros, do you think he’d turn down a last move to Spain, Italy or even Siberia?
I say good luck to him, being third choice is not good for anyone’s self esteem.
haha the two comments on the AKB post on legrove were hilarious, amazing how so many were whinging about getting rid of Arsene ‘because he hasn’t won anything in 3 years’
@ Peaches/ Rasp
i’m sick of that wordsmith RA whinging about how he can’t write posts. Next time he comes up with a long comment explaining Arsenals financial predicament (so those who have no clue, BR, me, and others) please snatch it and post it. That way he is forced to post haha
How can you possibly blame him, would you do any different for your family?
That is not clutching at straws that is Arshavin being an adult.
Oh I see, sorry, I thought you meant a move back to Russia for the sake of his family. I agree with you then.
Thanks LB, and sorry Kelsey, I will just have to keep up with you! 🙂
Oz, you are a very, very naughty boy!! 🙂 But lovely with it — in a very manly way …………….of course! 🙂
When do you go back to Uni? Does your Mrs Oz also go to the same Uni? [I am being nosey – just ignore me] 🙂
So back to my previous point, does anyone think that if he shines as an AM for club and country, that AW would have him back to play that role for us, or would that be too much egg on face?
I know this is a couple of years old and was made by spuds, but it still makes me laugh. Off out, laters 🙂
LB, It is really good to see you this morning, full of vim and vigour, we don’t see enough of you during the week! 🙂
Morning all, hopefully all have had a calming night’s sleep.
Who would have thought it on AA, Anger, Extreme language directed at other blogging mates, conspiracy theories, prophecies of doom and a general air of depression and disillusionment because our club is supposedly in crisis? All sparked by what? The exit of a delinquent Russian who has continually made it plain he wanted away. Nah I don’t buy that. This resentment has by the sound of things been lying dormant beneath the surface and AA’s last act was to light the fuse on the way out of the door.
The blogs will make interesting reading on Monday if the team sinks to our levels tomorrow. So come on fellows it’s a new day, we are on the cusp of a big game. I have a family of spuds to contend with, let alone disillusioned Gooners on my favourite blog, so goodness sake lets see some optimism and belief on here, hopefully hindsight will make us all realise just how blind we are being. We have lost bigger players and the club still survives.
As with NB, Arshavin is on loan, he remains an Arsenal player. Should he do well at the Euro’s and for Zenit/Sunderlnd then his price will rise accordingly. Thereby benefiting AFC.
Or am I talking bolleaux?
hard to say, depends how much money is on the table i guess! If 10million is i’d say take the money, if it’s less then find him a spot on that damn pitch! However, is that the spot wilshere slips into?
both my posts on Fab and the accounts have been answered.
Another thing with AA is his age, so maybe a final pay packet in his homeland would seem feasable, and anyway the weather in london is far too warm for him 🙂
I am not sure of AA’s contract situation. Does it finish this year? If so…… he is gone.
If the contract finishes in 2013, then I suspect there will be some haggling over a fee, and if he plays well the price we get may be higher.
We do have a history of allowing players to go out on loan and then confirm a permanent move.
2013 RA, I believe.
Bring back Alliadare, he only had 8 years at the club and about 5 starts 🙂
Bolleax is a type of Orchid. So perhaps you are resorting to flower speak? Or, maybe talking utter bolleax, in a flowery way. 🙂
haha the first time a bloke has called me naughty, but hey your 6’5, block peoples cars in, and know of words i never knew existed so i’ll let it slide haha.
nah not nosey at all, next monday, so hopefully arsenal will have me in high spirits, and i’ll need to be as the class has us eating baby food and baby formulas. She did yes, she just finished the same course that i’m currently doing (a semester ahead of me).
hope all is in order with the tests and what not
the only bloody thing he did was score twice against us for boro. He made gibbs look like a picture of perfect health
Here’s a scary thought.
The difference between a win and a loss tomorrow on how you’ll feel on monday
No pressure on the fans then
Me too RA,
I think we are of ssimilar mind when it comes to Arsenal so would be silly to fall out over a little Russian!
As for your lack of headline posts, if I can cobble something together without understanding what conjecture means then I’m sure you could come up with a masterpiece or two!
It’s a giant love-in today, feel free to join us, but don’t forget to bring lube and the anti venom! I hear RA’s viper has a potent spit!!!!
I know you all think rumours are bolloxs but there is a surprise move pending in the Summer .i have heard it from two HP’s. Torres to Arsenal (yes i know the wages) and Walcott to Chelsea. Or Kalou to us for Walcott.
Walcott at present stands us in at 12million.
personally I would take Torres in a flash but he may go to Malaga for money and homeland.
Walcott is the interesting one as he is in negotiations for a hike in wages.
kelsey i love transfer rumours, they are the reason i walk around in a zombie like trance for 4 months of the year! Give me torres any day of the week, I was spewing when he went to liverpool because i think his style suits us to a tee. Kalou on the other hand can bugger off. I’d also take ramires. Not much else from chelsea besides torres,ramires and mata
That’s just a terrible tease. Torres or Kalou. You know very well which of those two we all want, and equally which of those two we would get 😦
Glad to see slim and RA have made up.
LB – you are spot on with your comment at 7.58.
I’m very sad, my Arsenal heart is hurting and I’m very confused about a lot of decisions that are being taken at the club, not that it’s really any of my business it seems because I’m just a supporter.
The blogging community has a wide and diverse range of views and sometimes one can feel like the lone voice on any given subject but the blog exists to allow debate and the airing of those views. We should always remember that we have no control over any of these events that cause us to be deliriously happy or run for the duvet.
The NLD approaches …………………..
New Post …………….
Sorry guys but I have to ask. Am I alone in thinking AW to move into an exec role and AVB to make the move across London in the summer would be a good thing ?
Rasp, Take it on the chin m8, debates like these are what makes the site so good. You should be proud of yourself and what you have helped to achieve here.
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