Written by TotalArsenal
The tabloids are full of gossip about Cesc as well as Nasri leaving. Most of us know better than to trust any of the red tops, but say it would actually happen. We would get between £50- 60m in the bank, and then what?
Well, how many central midfielders do we need? The next generation is ready to take over: Song, Jack, Rambo, Diaby and then there are Arshavin, Lansbury and Frimpong, who for different reasons can all be drafted into the two central spots.
If Cesc leaves, we might play more regularly 4-4-2 again, meaning we only need two central midfielders: one defence minded and one attack minded. The pairings of Song and Jack, Song and Arshavin, Jack and Rambo or Song and Diaby etc, all sound mouth-watering to me. The only thing we would be missing is experience in any of the combinations that does not include Arshavin. Yet Arshavin does not seem to be the sort of player who can give 100% focus and dedication to a central midfielder role during a game, let alone a whole season. So that could leave us with a problem as experience in the centre of midfield is essential. However, if we play 4-4-2 we could make RvP captain, play him in the hole (with Bendtner or Chamakh upfront), so he would be closer to the midfielders and lead and guide them where and when necessary. TV could become our deputy captain and even be our DM at times. Both RvP and TV could focus on leadership support to the midfield, if and when required.
Of course, I’d like us to keep either Cesc or Nasri, as it is always hard to get over the loss of two players in one area – in this case the midfield – in one season. Our additional fat/riches are in the central midfield positions, and the money we can make from selling one or two players should be used to strengthen in other areas. In fact, I feel we need to sell either Cesc or Nasri to make space: if we are not selling anybody in that area this season, we could start blocking the further development of Jack, Rambo, Diaby and Song, as well as Frimmpong and Lansbury, who are behind those first four in the queue. The money we would get from the sales can be used to add to our transfer budget, and buy us a quality winger, another CB and maybe a LB.
If I were on the BoD of Arsenal, I would want to sell either Cesc or Nasri, both for financial and sporting reasons. Even if we decide to let them both go (which is highly unlikely), I can see some positives coming from this. Rather than all the talk about a crisis, this is actually a great opportunity to make a few positive changes, whilst sticking to our unique and fantastic philosophy.
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If Diaby sounds mouth watering to you in playing eleven then god save us. How could you forget the other “D” joker of midfield (denilson)
These two must be your dream and our nightmare midfield pairing
Seem to be one AKB brigade soldier
No disrespect dude, but as soon as you mentioned Diaby, I lost interest. Diaby is rubbish and teh thought of him and Denilson (who know one wants to buy) at the centre of our midfield scares me.
agree you can’t diaby in the same sentence as the others … I would like Scott Parker or Tim cahill to give midfield experience ..
Always nice to see an optimistic view on things, rather than the typical moan and groan mentality.
Not a bad analysis. I have said for a while I wouldn’t go out to try and replace Cesc. Similarly I would not try and replace Nasri directly either. I felt at times we were unbalanced last year in the attacking third and when Nasri’s goals dried up, RVP aside, we did not score enough. If we are still talking 4-3-3 I would prefer in Nasri’s case we spend big on a proven goal-scorer, a world class fox in the box, as I feel. we have plenty of options in the attacking midfield/wing forward/number 10 role. My choice would be Falcao. He should be the big spend. Just go and put £30m on the table and get him. We could then bring RVP into a slightly deeper more creative role effectively replacing Nasri, and with the likely signing of Gervinho and if AA is still there we have cover in the role of Nasri. I feel there would be more goals in the team with Falcao, RVP, Gervinho, AA, Walcott to choose from. For an attacking posession team goals are important and our inability to convert dominance into goals at times last year was as damaging as our defensive frailties.
Instead of trying to replace Cesc just let Jack fill his boots. I am still not sure Diaby, despite looking quality at times, has the consistency for this level. Also I like the look of Frimpong but feel he needs regular playing time on loan first before he can nail down a starting or first choice back up at this level, and this is not the season to be taking a chance that a young player will step up quicker than expected. I would like a more powerful midfielder who would be equally happy sitting in front of the back 4 but also had a dynamic box to box aspect to his game when needed. i actually like the sound of the Chilean lad in the Bundesliga, (forget his name), who sounds similar to a Gerrard type and seems to tick all the boxes.
This was written by Wenger himself. Diaby? Mouth-watering? You have brightened up my day no end.
Morning Browny,
Great comment and pretty much sums up my feelings. Of course you can’t replace Cesc and we probbaly don’t need to. You are right that the team seemed unbalanced.
We need more power in the side either in a CB or DM – or both.
It is also true, if we spend big in any area it should be a striker, but with it unsure whether Nik is going and with Gervinho on the way I think it unlikely as things stand at the moment.
Good post. RVP would be a terrible captain though. Strikers can’t captain a team. You can’t see the play. Should be Vermarlen of Cesc goes. I can’t see 4-4-2 either, I could be wrong but to me he is signing Gervinho to play on the left of a three up front. Song, Wilshere, Ramsey and Diaby lack creativity overall In comparison to Cesc.
I would be surprised if there combined assist total last year was more than Cesc last year.
If we sell, then we need to get our finger out. We are massively short of decent wide options, Arshavin hasn’t played well since December, Nasri might be off and that leaves Theo and Gervinho if I comes in. We need two Centre backs, another winger and another proven striker in case RVP pulls a sicky until December again.
Wilshere and Ramsey could form a good all action pair but you would need seriously good wide players who can create and score goals consostantly and if Nasri leaves I don’t think you could trust Arshavin and Walcott, much as I love them to do that.
http://a-kick-in-the-grass.blogspot.com/2011/07/fergie-running-out-of-options-as.html
First time I’ve seen this about the mancs. I thought it was only us? I’m in the diaby can go camp.
Hiya Total
I like your take on things.
number 1 – no point worrying about something that may never happen, ie both Cesc and Nasri leaving
2 – no point trying to replace Cesc, there is only one Cesc
3 – there is scope and potential to rebuild the team with a different formation with Aaron and Jack being the key players
4 – completely agree about RvP’s ability to be a leader, with Vermaeln the deputy
5 – Diaby….I like him and think he will deliver, but wouldn’t bank on it
Cunning plan, Total, well done
At the end of the day get rid of all who wants to go. Cesc 6 years at the helm of arsenal midfield you won the team nothing . Nasri was half a season player and clichy is superfast but no end product. We beat united without all them players missing so let them go. You will see other players shine. Diaby is quality but his morale has been constantly down. I think we need samba gerviniho and that Kevin de bruyne from genk save the 50 million for club stability
Pay these guys to sleep in hospital beds?
To those who ‘expressed their doubt’ about Diaby’s ability to make it at Arsenal, I like to refer you to my post on Saturday: Dopey Diaby – Destroyer Diaby… rather than respond to a one-liner.
Good morning all and another cracking debate starter TA.
I would be disappointed to lose two such talented players in one summer. We are already losing Clichy and love him or hate him he has been a solid first-teamer for years since Cashley left.
Whilst I agree its probably Cesc will go, I’m not comfortable also losing Nasri. We do have options to replace both, but I think we’d rather keep Nasri than lose him.
I think Arshavin is getting a bit of a rough ride, but his stats stand up for themselves from last season and whilst his physique is in no way suitable to a central midfield role, certainly his desire to perform cannot be questioned (tackling back for example), unlike Nasri when it wasn’t working for Andrei he still tried to be valuable to the team.
WG
http://a-kick-in-the-grass.blogspot.com/2011/07/fergie-running-out-of-options-as.html
It’s not just us then.
I agree about Diaby. I’m in the dopey Diaby camp. Shame because he has flashes of brilliance
Am I in moderation?
Oh it was the link.
I believe in Diaby. 🙂
Please my gunners agreed with me that fabregas should be sold thou it will affect us for some while and in turn use that proceeds to sign samba,cahill and a striker.as for samir nasri no go area for man u and city abeg. ill affect us for some while and in turn use that proceeds to sign samba,cahill and a striker.as for samir nasri no go area for man u and city abeg.
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for your quality response. If we would play RvP in the hole he would be closer to the midfielders, and his head would need to be pointing forwards as well as backwards. He has got all the interpersonal skills for it and the midfielders would look up to him / listen to him. It would be worth a try.
Re the creative, assists aspect. It is true that Fabregas is superb at this. However, I don’t agree with you on your assessment that Jack lacks creativity. He just has not been asked to play in that role last season, but during the England games we could see what an allround player he is. He already is England’s best creative midfielder and the future is very bright for Arsenal and England.
Fully agree with you on wingers. Gervinho is hopefully the Overmars/Pires type and he would fit well in a 4-4-2 imo. Cheers mate 🙂
Thanks Evonne 😉
Great comment Brownie. Sometimes players get found out in the PL, especially once they have come of age so to speak. Nasri was absolutely outstanding in the first half of the season, and we all know his performance levels dropped quite a bit in the second part. It could well be that opponents started studying him a lot better and now know how to deal with him. Next season, wherever he will play, will be a big one for him.
I agree with you and Rasp re more phisical power in the team. However, Song will be stronger again next season, and I expect us to buy another CB to complement the other three key CB’s.
Quite frankly whilst I’d like to keep Cesc I’m not really bothered about Nasri. He was a player that shone for 1/2 a season and now the press are apparently talking about meltdown if he goes. Where was he in the 2nd of the season when Arsenal lost their way and seriously dived. Lose Nasri & Arshavin and a couple of other ‘stars’ who clearly weren’t up for the task at the run-in. The fringe players might not have been good enough to step up, but it wasn’t them who bottled it.
It’s shocking….
Arsenal fans are so quick to write of the talent of players like Abou Diaby, Gael Clichy and Nicklas Bendtner (Denilson is just a cabbage patch in our midfield – slander him as much as you want/can).
Diaby on form can single handedly boss our midfield, same goes for Rosicky. They need a period of time to rest and probably see top specialist who can help them with their injury problems. Clichy is one of the best left backs around (laugh if you want), look at the clubs that have and still do want him: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester City, Liverpool … all clubs with quality players and want to STRENGTHEN their left side of defence. He should be kept at all costs.
Nicklas Bendtner scores goals, end of. He deserves more credit then he is given. Imagine Crouch, Zigic, Ibrahimovic and other strikers of a similar mould to Bendtner outwide as WINGERS and see how they perform. This season he has got a decent amount of goals and assists even though he was played out of position. He gets goals when needed for Arsenal and even though he missed a golden chance against Barcelona, look how many times he’s come through and saved us. He needs a run in the team to *Gulp* build confidence/match practise/to catch form + he enjoys taking shots in and around the box and doesn’t try to pass the ball into the net.
Our midfield is extremely talented in my opinion, one of the best in terms of quality in depth in the world.
Players such as Rosicky, Ramsey, Wilshere can all dictate play and create chances through incisive passes (especially Rosicky – who an inject momentum into our game e.g. Liverpool). We have possible box to box players in Diaby and Lansbury (Diaby can easily boss our midfield just needs a very good run of games, a good pre-season and to not get injured). In Song and Frimpong, we have two tough tackling midfield pitbulls willing to bark at any player no matter their stature (Frimpong pre-season bullied Gattuso and the AC Milan midfield). Although Frimpong is inexperienced I believe he would be best suited in our midfield in all the Carling Cup games, giving Song a rest.
In attacking midfield roles we have a decent-good batch of players.
If we utilised Walcott properly he could single handedly win us games, his pace scares every team he comes up against; even the best team in the world right now (Barcelona). Arshavin as sometime-ish as he is, is world class. His technique and dribbling is excellent, but it’s his fitness and confidence which worries me, if they improve, we could possibly squeeze two seasons of the Arshavin at the quality that he came to the club with. Vela is a potent finisher in my opinion, he is quick, composed, a decent – good dribbler just needs to build confidence as well.
Upfront:
Chamakh is a good enough target man for our team. His finishing with his feet could be improved, but aerially he’s quality. His work rate, enthusiasm and determination is good + he gets us penalties.
van Persie….Do I need to say anymore ?
If we were to sign any players I would sign:
Samba and Sakho for the defence (bring through Miquel or Bartley)
Inler or Melo for the defensive midfield re-inforcement
Marchisio or Arturo Vidal + Diego for the centre midfield role
Gervinho, Chamberlain, Hulk (Bring through Wellington Silva or Miyachi)
Morning TA,
Thanks for another glowingly positive post – it is clear that not everybody shares your admiration for Diaby 😕
My vain hope is that the Cesc/Nasri situation is resolved soon, but my suspicion is that it will go right to the last week. Clichy’s iminent move to city will not spark mass movements in and out of Arsenal, but we have to suspect that if we do not line up a replacement, AW has plans for a re-shuffle of some of the existing defenders.
Morning JB212 and welcome.
I agree with almost everything you’ve written. We do need more power in the team, but the players you’d like to see come in would certainly redress that balance.
I don’t want us to be the team that concedes the most goals from set pieces again next season.
I agree in principal although not sure Diaby needs to be mentioned. He’s too inconsistent, although I’d keep him as a squad player.
I’d be more keen to get rid a 30 year old Arshavin who keeps flattering to deceive . No works ethic and best years are not in front of him. If we can get good money for him then great! (same goes for denilson and bendtner).
Worst nightmare is that Denilson stays and gets given a chance to take on Cesc’s role, although thankfully it seems that Rambo has knoced him down the pecking order.
JB212 – well said! You are absolutely right about some writting off Diaby and Bendtner, they are just uncut diamonds, will shine yet. Not so sure about ‘cabbage patch’ Denilson, he is also a decent player and as I said before could do very well in a more physical team. Walcott winning games singlehanded…..nooo, don’t think so
If we were to lose Cesc and Nasri, I would look seriously at Honda (if available) He’s a very good creative goalscoring midfielder and the extra merchandising revenue from Japan alone would make the money men happy too.
I stopped reading when you said the next generation is ready to take over… Idiot. We’ll finish out of the top 4 with you as a manger for sure
TA – I agree that the deeper RVP plays, the easier it is for him to captain the side but I would still rather a centre back like Vermarlen or a full back.
If RVP plays in the whole then we need a proper striker not Chamakh or Bendtner because frankly if you stuck either of them in Wolves side they wouldn’t look out of place. They are back up players who earn more than they are worth.
We need to improve at the back but we suffered as much last season because our wide players and strikers choked at the vital point. RVP aside.
With Gervinho, it’s looks done. He played on the left of three for Lille and that is why I think Wenger went for him. Because our left hand side last year was the worst i have ever seen at Arsenal. Clichy/Arshavin even Nasri stopped scoring when played out there.
Wenger might well turn Gervinho in to a striker for all I know. As a winger, the little I remember of him he doesn’t track. He is quick and a finisher though.
I think Wenger will choose RVP as captain, rightly or wrongly.
stan, a word of advice, by all means give your honest reaction to a post on AA but cut out the ‘Idiot’ stuff. This is a friendly site and we don’t trade in insults. You can keep commenting as long as you respect that simple courtesy.
Hi Jamie,
I think you are correct. AW’s past choices for captain = TH, Almunia, Cesc show that he sees the captaincy as a way of either encouraging a player to stay or to build their confidence/profile in the side, therefore I am sure he will go for RvP
If we lose Fabregas and Nasri would someone be kind enough to cut the rope I will be swinging by the neck from.
London – you won’t need the rope, we’ll be fine. We’ll be sad that they don’t play for us anymore but we’ll just have to soldier on 😦
We’ve had our hearts broken by so many players and managers over the years and we do know that AW can be really ruthless – I was never going to forgive him for selling Petit!!!!!!!!!!!
…….. and then Vieira and Thierry ……………….
Stan
Why don’t you give us a bit more information as to why you feel that way.
Hi Peaches
All the players you mentioned were sold when it suited the club only Anelka left prematurely. I fear that Wenger may see it suitable to sell Cesc now for the reasons that Rocky suggests above; we would, as you say, get on with things but his quality would be a great loss.
Kevin Doyle to Arsenal 🙂
The thing that gets me is that Nasri is virtually the only player we have a song for – doesn’t he realise how important that is 🙂
Hleb and Flamini leaving left us exposed and it took time to rebuild the team. I am sure that had they stayed for a couple more seasons, we would have trophies by now
That’s the problem though evonne don’t you think?
We have been painstakingly building a team with these players and it looks like we’re going to have to rebuild before we’ve finished the original construction – great pity
Peaches
Hahahah that’s funny becasue it is so true.
And talking of funny…….Kevin Doyle to Arsenal that is obviously wrong on so many levels. Do you think that there is a Wolves blog on which they are cursing Arsenal for trying to poach their best striker?
Hleb wanting to go was pretty gutting – tempted by Italian ice-cream and then swapping busy north London for the quiet of Barcelona, and look how well his career progressed following his move.
London,
Do you think we’re going to buy a replacement LB – if so, who would you like to see?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Last point about Clichy, can anyone explain why he is going for as little as £7m other than the fact that he is entering the last year of his contract?
By the way, we’re going to need posts for this week …….. 🙂
I hear negotiations have broken down regarding Cesc, so no need to hang yourself london, but it might still happen.Clichy is gone 100%
Evonne I e mailed you a newspaper cutting which might amuse you 🙂
Rasp – £7m for Clichy is 5 more than I expected 🙂
Kelsey – thank you, will read it soon
@ Rasp
I too am stunned at the low selling price. 7m for a proven experienced left back is a snip.
I hope we are a bit more aggressive and get it closer to 10million, but money now is better than nothing in a year.
WG
@ Peaches
I’m working on something as promised. Also I might well be able to assist you on your request if you still need?
Pop me a mail to let me know.
WG
Just like London, I am very surprised MC have gone for Clichy and yet £7m seems low.
I cannot say I am upset about it, and maybe we get a LB now who can cross and be solid at the back as well. A genuinely nice guy though 🙂
I am not enjoying this transfer widow one bit, and I don’t suppose Our Boy London is either what with the prospect of eating his scarf! Yuk 🙂
Are Barca in for the Sanchez chap?
Hi Jamie,
It looks like Gervinho can play in various attacking positions and that is exactly the sort of player we like and need at Arsenal right now.
You have go strong views about Chamakh and Bendtner. I really believe if either of them gets ten games in a row in a 4-4-2, in front of RvP, they would both come good. Benzema would come into the CL fresh, and there is no guarantee at all that our investment in him would pay off significantly better than giving B or C a proper chance. Look for example at Ballotelli and Dzeko at MC.
The only guaranteed good thing that would come from buying Benzema is the psychological effect it would have on the rest of the team and fans in particular. But I don’t think the BoD will let themselves influence by this, however important for morale.
I agree that the future is quite bright if both move on.
I think that the cesc + 2 three man midfield has ruined many of the supporting casts reputations.
the Cesc +2 midfield also kills the strikers like Bendtner and Chamakh who are built for balls from the wings but continuosly get balls over their heads or cetrally to their feet.
The cesc +2 midfield puts our defenders under pressure by leaving full backs exposed and susceptibility to long balls because or defensive midfielder is too far up the pitch rather than winning the header before it bounces.
You need a lot of water carrying to support the cesc philosophy and we don’t have those players.
The mad thing is we never even tried to buy them.
If the doyle story is true then i think wenger is going to radically change the team structure.
My understanding Micky is that wont/can’t meet the valuation we put on Cesc.I think they have the money as they are still in the market for other players.
Not surre if it is a good thing or bad if cesc stays if his heart is elsewhere.In a sentence it’s a mess.
Hi D98, good to see you back 🙂
Who would you have as your central midfielders if Cesc were to leave?
Kelsey, don’t you think it is all part of the spiel to get him as cheap as possible from us?
Most probably TA but I have a feeling which is totally different to last week that cesc will now stay
Do you have a strong intuition Kelsey, and if so, does it usually come through?
Cul Rouge, ou est-tu mon ami?
Arsene Wenger will never sign Kevin Doyle.
If he does I’ll never comment again.
WG
Not really TA,
I only reported what I knew some 3 or 4 months ago.I see it as a no win situation for our club.if he stays the same thing will happen next season, if he goes it will have to be at our true valuationwhich barca won’t meet.
Kelsey @ 2:10,
That is a real tough one. Keeping hold of one of our most senior players under those circs. is very far from ideal. I don’t know the answer. My gut feeling is that assuming there really is unrest in the dressing room, then clearly Arsene will know who is a priority “exiter”. I think AA will go, the rest, no idea.
Ok, how many times must we hear this one trotted out: “”I am flattered by the interest from clubs abroad and I have always loved the Premier League. It is the best league in the world and I really want to be part of that”
As opposed to: “You Engleesh bastards can stick your money. I hate you and your league. I’m off to Turkey. Up yours”.
Hey TA Good to be back!
Who knows who we are going to buy!! But among the current midfielders the closest we have to our dream Double 98 (no relation) midfield quartet of
Overmars (the winger) Petit Vieira (DM AM Pistons) Parlour (box to box engine)
would be
Walcott Song Diaby and Wilshire.
The only thing is that that would push wilshire wider than he is used to – still if parlour could pull it off (and still be influential in the middle) then a much more talented and arguably much fitter wilshire could do the same….
Before people howl with derision, back in Wengers first month if someone said our first choice midfield for the coming years would be an injury prone crock, a left back, a young reserve for A/C milan and Ray Parlour (who at that stage was looking washed up) i would have wanted Arsene Out.
We also have a wealth of players as your article points out
we could have
Walcott Song Wilshire and Ramsay
or
Arshavin Song Wilshire and Walcott
All these midfields provide width and central options.
But we could be looking at new players so who knows?
Where’s Red Arse?
Redders old chap, drop us in a comment just to let us know you’re OK please.
D98,
I am not sure that in a Cescless world, Arsene will bin 4-3-3. It will be fascinating to see how he kicks off the new season, both players and formation wise.
Ahoy Rasp.
D98, interesting stuff. I am out for a while (promised daughter a helium balloon 🙂 ) but will respond later.
Why the outrage at Kevin Doyle btw?
His performances for Ireland show him to be better than Wolves – in that he has is one of the more stand out players in the much more individual world of international football.
Who knows what he could do in a team that has 60% of possession.
Oh that and of course, compared to Bentdner he is Pele.
Hi Micky, Avast Behind! 😛
@Double98
No outrage from me, I just do not think he is good enough. He isn’t as technically adept as Chamakh or even Bendtner.
WG
Rasp,
Had to google that one, and saw there was an “International Talk Like A Pirate Day”. That has given me many ideas for a post!
A Very Happy Birthday to dandan.
Oh God, he’s not expecting presents is he?
Well shiver mi timbers Micky.
Dandan – many happy returns, your card may have got lost in the post.
He is partial to a bit of chocolate cake (I understand) being a mere 22 stones 😉
Gunnersauraus has handed in a transfer request but Eboue said he would stand in. Phew !!!!!!
Happy Birthday dandan. Jelly?
Blimey Kelsey, we may have to start being nice to Gunnerbloodysaurus the way things are going!
I want a proven goalscorer to hold RvP’s hand.
I expect the Clichy deal to be confirmed by Arsenal very soon….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2010893/Gael-Clichy-signs-Manchester-City.html
I shall be very interested to see if their coaching staff can improve his positional play and decision making when going forward.
MickD
You wouldn’t know what Wenger might do but a 3 man midfield with the best 3 man midfielder in the world didn’t win anything so i shudder to think what it will happen if he tries to press it with the likes of ramsay and arshavin or denilson
Do City think Clichy is a better player than Baines? I guess they do. Actually it is fairly worrying for everyone that City cannot find a better one than Gael.
The only thing blocking the move is that the roads around Eastlands are very congested, and Clichy can’t cross.
😆 kelsey
Double,
Believe me, I share your concerns, although the reason we didn’t win anything had nothing to with Cesc (apart from not being around half the time!). Those problems remain whatever the system.
Micky, will he even be first choice LB? they’ve got him for small change by their standards
True Rasp, and as I’ve said before, City do love a left back!
I wonder how much it costs in wages to get a player to kiss his career bye-bye. You know, Sean Wright-Phillips styley.
WiganGooner
I draw your attention to THAT chance against Barcelona and ask you if Bentdner (who could’nt trap a beach ball, with his finger cellotaped to the “Trap” button on a beach ball trapping machine, in a field of beach balls, during Beach ball Trapping season) is technically more adept than Doyles Grandmother? 🙂
And as for Chamakh – at least doyle won’t get so tired by january that he can’t run about and kick the odd football.
Roy Keane wasn’t half the player that Vieira but he had mental strenght in spades – and that is missing from our technically gifted mental pansies
Double,
Hate to stick my wick into your ointment, but our Bendy has an unbelievable shots to goals ratio!! And, I think that may be true.
Another thing is, if you stick any mental pansie in the wrong flower bed, it ain’t gonna look right.
MickD – According to premierleague.com DB52 has a shot to goal ratio of 0.15 and Kevin Doyle is 0.14
No “ball trapping yardages” to compare.
I agree on the mental pansie thing…
I think wenger prepares for a season by working on fitness and technique and so our young players have no system to refer to when the going gets tough (I.e. bolton players are well bedded in there defensive and attacking systems by the time november comes and our players are playing off the cuff somewhat.
Excuse me – Doyle is 0.16 so more prolific than bentdner. in the PL
D98,
“bolton players are well bedded in”. Very much a horticultural theme today. Shame we don’t have Flowers between the sticks!
I have to be honest at this point, and say I don’t want Doyle because he is not famous or exotic enough for a Monday. By Friday, I may have changed my tune.
Must go.
Where are you RA?
I’ll be Frank….(because I like the name)…I’ve seen a bit of Kevin Doyle and I just don’t rate him.
Stats aside, it’s my opinion, I don’t think he is particularly quick or is he up there with the best in the world as a target man..
I’m just not sold on the idea.
Sorry D98!!
WG
Doyle’s a decent player, but surely a club of our stature should be looking for players at the next level?
It’s probably a hoax story again.
I doubt, manu, chelski, pool or city would be interested in Doyle, so why would we?
D98, as you can see Micky89 is our AA entertainer 😆
That comparison function is weird – Doyle is more prolific (in terms of shots to goal) than Rooney, VanPersie, Drogba, Suarez, Balotelli and less prol;ifc than Berbatov, Anelka, Tevez and Carrol.
But surprisingly in the same bracket…
I have a question. When is the deadline on Season Ticket Renewls. Also, Corporate Boxes, do we have any idea how sales are going as that is something bonkers like 30% of match day revenue? The likes of Cesc etc going and a Doyle coming in is not going to cut it with the suits.
WiganGooner – i am not pushing tha doyle thing i just think that he is better than our current back up striking options..
I mean i hope we go and buy Benzema
Evonne made that Doyle story up, right? However, Wenger has said in the past that he rates him. I am with Double98 here, he is a decent player, not a top player but as a third striker maybe (if Bendtner is on his way to Portugal…). But for me Bendtner does not have to go, neither Chamakh, Chamakh, Chamakh.
Martin Samuel: shut it you ill-informed fat slag!
What a headline
D98 @ 3.30, interesting comparison between the two midfields, past and current options. Do you think the midfield of Overmars, PV, EP, and Parlour was better than Pires, Gilberto, PV, FL?
JB212, brilliant comment today. Not much I could disagree with but you put your points across passionately and eloquently.
Hi TA
Better – not sure, if it had stayed together for more than 2 seasons then maybe it could have delivered champions leagues and things.
But the 98 was the blue print but the two sets of players went about their role differently – Ljunberg was more of a cutting edge than parlour but less of a work ethic, Petit was a better passer and was more than willing to get forward and vieira was more likely to defend with petit rather than gilberto. Overmars’ pace over 20 yards was devastating but Pires had a burst over 5 yards with great close control which frightened people.
We stopped winning things when we started playing 4-3-3 and Clichy became an average defender when Vieira wasn’t there to cover the holes left by pires.
We developed the whole Tippy tappy – walk it in the back of the net thing whereas with our two 4 man midfields where far more direct and capable of counter attacking at pace and accuracy.
Vieira was a big part of that – he and bergkamp provided 2 “hinges” in the team for launching attacks – Anelka, Henry, Pires, Ljunberg just needed to attack space and balls were fed through to them to run onto and strike…
When 4-3-3 came we lost a platform for attack and defence
Now although we score lots of goals and have lots of possession we tend to be less efficient and deadly with our attacks. With no DM we have noone to head the ball before it bounces 10 yards before the centre backs.
I’d love a return to a team modelled on 1998/2002 and i think we have players who could definitely fit that blue print – The age of 4-3-3 has peaked with Barca and Spain and the next revolution of football philosophy might be a throwback to attacking the full backs and crossing into the box for big men to head home or fast men to nip ahead of the defender.
The space against a typical 4-3-3 is the area in front and behind the fullback.
Football is cyclical.
Clichy is a goner. Hope we replace him. I’m so over it already 🙂
Hi D98, your comment @6.11 is again very well thought through. You should really consider writing a post for AA. Rasp and Peaches will be able to tell you what you would need to do if you so wish.
I wonder whether 4-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 would have worked better with a more consistent and solid defence. We have had so many changes in the back-5 over the last few years, and until now we have not been able to get it right. However, with TV back and Czszesny probably the preferred GK and both JD and Koz making such impressive progress last season (ok not faultless yet), we seem to be getting there now. Hopefully we get a fourth CB this summer: somebody in the mould of Djourou so they can compete together and be each other’s cover, sharing out the vast number of games they need to play (sorry London 🙂 ).
I feel that 4-2-3-1 works well in away games and against the bigger teams at home. We are more solid defensively and get enough space to pass our way through and be dangerous. I hope we play more 4-4-2 games at home, but key will be to bring in a quality winger. It is not that I don’t rate Arshavin and Theo, but we have no adequate cover for them and they are both not the classic wingers that we need in a 4-4-2.
GM, yes he is off to Citeh. Good luck to him. I have always liked Clichy ‘as a person’, judging from interviews and his general attitude on the pitch. As a player I found him disappointing in recent years, and I am sure we can improve on our LB cover. It is difficult to judge from what we have heard and seen, but it looks like that Arsenal have not tried to keep him. Interesting to see what will happen next.
Adieu Clichy and thanks for what you have done for us.
London, time to eat your scarf!
Cracking post Total.
Fabregas is top top top class, and irreplaceable on a like for like basis. But we already know that we can still play well without him.
We don’t seem to have found a true role for Nasri, and ‘m not convinced about him in the middle, as I’m not convinced about his eye for a pass. Maybe thats more about where we’ve played him to date.
I believe in Diaby.
D98- Beach ball trapping machine !! Lol..I like that.
But I do have to ask if you missed his magnificent strike against Ipswich and the sublime touches involved..??
This is why Diaby will NOT be sold:
Good post TA.
Even if Cesc and Nasri left, it would not be the end of the world because JW and AR have bags of talent and will only get better. However, it would be imperative that we get in one or more experienced players to help them when things are tough. In those circumstances, someone like Parker would be ideal (even though I don’t think his footballing abilities are on a par with our young stars’).
As for Clichy: good luck to him: he has been a good professional who has never shot his mouth off and always tried his best. His regular lapses in concentration and abysmal assists record mean that I’m not too sorry to see him go, but he deserves a round of applause when he comes back to The Grove in a sky blue shirt.
Thanks to everyone who welcomed me back yesterday. Sorry I couldn’t respond – my computer went on strike.
Sharkey, great video of Diaby: what a player he can be. Many thanks mate 🙂
Clichy has signed a four-year contract with City and becomes the latest in a succession of former Arsenal players to head to Eastlands after Emmanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure.
He said: “I am really happy to be joining such a great club. I hope I can add to the quality we already have here because we have a fantastic squad who I believe will continue to get better. I can’t wait to get started and I think anything is possible with this team.”
Shame I can’t say the c word on here
JB212. Quality post that, although you did lose half a mark for mentioning the Hulk. It almost made me angry. You wouldn’t like me when…etc etc..
All joking aside, I just don’t rate him.
Loved this line …”He needs a run in the team to *Gulp* build confidence”
Classic.
Your welcome TA, I really should have dug it out for your Dopey Destroyer post. I might have made reference to it…can’t remember for sure though.
Alzheimers ‘eh, its hard to recall how much trouble it gets you into…which in itself is almost cool.
gm
I wouldn’t get too upset.
It’s a pretty low-key comment from Gael. He’s got to say something (and in any case the quote will have been written by Citeh’s PR department).
He has never said anything negative about Arsenal and there’s nothing in that quote to take offence at. He could easily have said “I moved because I want to win trophies” etc, but didn’t.
Hi Rocky, yes you are right re the need for experience, but I don’t think Parker is the answer. Jack and Rambo are so good, I think he would struggle to add something. If he had been a CL winner, I could see it work. Maybe we should give Rambo, Song, Diaby and Jack the chance to make it work. But it is all hypothetical as we are unlikely to let Nasri and Cesc both go this summer, and they both like to play in the middle 😉
Interesting movements by cesc.he cancelled a photo shoot for one of his sponsors in Toledo , then was going to Barcelona but appeared in Ibiza and now back home to us a day earlier than expected for training.
I get the feeling he doesn’t want to talk…a stalling tactic perhaps.
TA – going back a few hours. I think we will have to agree to disagree Bebdtner and Chamakh. Bendtner is ip for sale and no-one wants him and we are stupidly being linked with players like Doyle and Downing because the media at large think that they are better than the like of Bendtner and Denilson.
I actually think Bendtner and Chamakh are better than them, but I don’t think that is saying a lot.
I would love us to get Benzema but he is not for sale and he doesn’t want to come, so we will have to set our sights lower, but not as low as Doyle or in Midfield the likes of Downing.
Both Bendtner and Chamakh do show promise.
I know rocky but he’s the enemy now and I hate everyone who’s not me 🙂
Kelsey, it is so good to have a Spanish correspondent in our midst. Please keep following the Cesc like a hawk 😆
Welcome back BTW Rocky
Yes, Red Arse and Chary, and 26may have all gone missing:(
26may probably sulking, Chary’s internet still not working, but Red Arse? Chasing a waitress, hopefully
Fair enough Jamie, there is merrit in your doubts about Chamakh and Bendtner. I just think they deserve another chance and I am quite a fan of Chamakh, but I am not 100% convinced yet.
Bendtner is very picky about where he would like to go, and of course he wants to be first/regular choice at a top team. He is not going to get that at this stage, so I can only imagine him staying with us. If so, I hope Mr Vanity will get a proper chance to prove himself 😉
Hi Evonne, I hope so too.
Where are you Red Arse? We need a haiku for him!!
Sorry I am vain too, just like Bendtner 🙂
It should be merit not merrit, even though the latter would make sense from a pronunciation point a view..
Total – “If he had been a CL winner” !!
You do talk about that ‘attribute’ a lot don’t you. Shall we get Djimi Traore in for LB now that Clichy’s gone then…?? 😉
How about a list of the most average players to win a CL medal..??
Sharkey, not sure about a list but I challenge you to come up with a more average player then….. Winston Bogarde (CL winner with Ajax, although he never left the bench once). He milked Chelsea until he could not burp anymore, and was quoted saying:
‘This world is about money, so when you are offered those millions you take them. Few people will ever earn so many. I am one of the few fortunates who do. I may be one of the worst buys in the history of the Premiership but I don’t care’
Better me on that one Sharkey!! 😆
Harry Kewell Sharkey?
an honest pro though Ta. Unlike that scum giggs. What a piece of shit.
Alright GM..not so sure on that one (Kewell).
Its a yes, when you’ve watched him get fit ten days before a Cup final, play for fifteen minutes, then bail out cos he had broken a finger nail*
Then he drags himself and his bandaged finger up to get a medal and then dances with his team mates as though he had contributed.
He did that ‘magical get fit trick’ repeatedly in the later years of his career. A few times for Pool and worse still he did that stitch up job on his country for at least two WC’s and possibly the confederations cup as well.
In the ‘no’ box, I have to say that at Leeds he was anything but average. HIstalent and ability were sometimes pretty frightening. When he chose the Pool over us I was gutted, but with hindsight we certainly dodged a bullet there.
*artistic (autistic?) licence!! 😉
TA. I wont better you but I will ‘respectfully’ disagree.
The Bogarde story is one much told, but the inside track is that he was about to sign for a Dutchie club for £20k per week plus free sensimilla. In stepped Chelsea at the last minute and offered him £40k but he has to buy his own weed!
He signs for Chelsea, who then sacked Ranieri. New manager wants him out, but ChelScum don’t want to pay him off.
Its an odd tale (4 long years !!) alright, but its not as one-sided as most people like to think. Chelsea always had the option to actually play him, and let him earn his money. They bought hm from Barcelona, so he can’t have been that bad, although Eric Abidal could be used to disprove my theory.
They tried all sorts of nasty tricks to belittle or embarrass him into leaving.
Ask Adrian Mutu how well ChelScum treat their own players/staff. Or Ray Wilkins…??
Is it too late to do Mickey’s..’you’re all hiding’ thing..??
Sharkey, there is a soft-caring side to you: impressive 🙂 But listen to this statistic; since Bogarde left Ajax he played 53 games in seven seasons, less than 8 games per season.
Rasp says:
July 3, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Hi Loh,
Your comment is longer than the post
Thats really tickled me.
No offense to Loh, as I also enjoyed the post !!
Soft caring side to a Shark ??
C’mon TA, even you know how hard it is to get in that Barca team 😉
Then there’s four seasons at Chelsea doing nothing but smoke your way thru a 4 year supply of thai sticks.
Suddenly 53 games in 7 yrs looks decent 😉
I bet Barca took him on a free from Ajax, then cashed him n to ChelScum.
Very sharp Sharkey 🙂 We actually had quite a few new contributors over the last few days. It is amazing how some fellow gooners really take the time to comment and add value to the discussions.
As a matter of interest Sharkey, where are you based?
My Alzheimers…oh dear, thank God for good ol Wiki
Apparently it was Ranieri who didn’t want Bogarde. Bogarde’s 3rd and last season art Barca – 21 appearances, 2 goals., 2nd season severely disrupted by injuries.
He once scored 11 goals for Sparta, helping them qualify for the UEFA Cup.
He’s also 1.88m (6’2) and a free agent. We should sign him..?? He’s got four years of PL experience 😉
Night all
South East London.
Two time visitor to the Tavern for pre-match. Once this season, and once about two seasons ago.
I barely get to two matches per season these days,. it used to be 10-15, afew years ago. But I’m a father of four these days.
Really offski now…
Is that where ‘Bogarde the joint’ came from?
Sharkey, after Ajax he went to Milan, I think on a free Bosman. He played three games after which Louis Louis Louis brought him to Barca. He was injured regularly during his Barca time but still managed to play 41 games in 3 years. Then it was time for a rest and his friend Mario Melchiot tipped him to come to Chelsea 😆
Chas hi, it sounds more like a good cigar to me ‘The Winston Bogarde’; rich and lazy, it all goes up in a puff of smoke’
h**p://www.themondaysupplement.co.uk/sport/arsenal-shocked-by-new-transfer-request/
This is very funny. They did a good Gervinho “leaving after 12 minutes” the other day which made me laugh too.
Night Sharkey. Four kids – well done!
I’m off to bed. My broadband is rubbish again and it’s getting painfully annoying. Nite all.
GM 🙂 ‘My trophy cabinets are bare’ haha.
Two pieces of City trivia
An old one I didn’t know – David Seaman played for City
A new one – Tevez has said he won’t play for them next season
Hi Rasp, did you hear anything from RA?
Bloody hell its been a bit of a day on here.
Nice post TA, shame the early comments focussed on one player, but you’ll never please them all….
I agree with what you are saying but at the moment I am starting to struggle to see how we make the most of what we are left with. Starting to think Venables Christmas Tree from Euro 96 might suit us quite nicely, especially if Jenkinson is the chosen Left Back or if we buy Baines give Gibbs a run
……………….Chesney………………..
Sag……….Koz……..TV…………..LB
……..Cesc…..Song….Wilshere…….
……………Theo……AA……………….
…………………RvP…………………….
The subtle difference would be forcing AA and Theo to play inside right and left behind RvP, rather than wide and getting in the way of the full backs when they are allowed.
What time does Arsenal training start do we think? I am in South Mimms tonight so not far from the ground and I have my long lens camera……
It seems popular opinion is Clichy has gone to earn a salary of around £65k per week, and that he was on £30-40k per week at Arsenal…does anyone beleive this? If its true where do we then get the idea that others are on so much more to play for the reserves. Those wondering why he was so “cheap” at £7million would do well to look at the remaining length on his contract. As London said last week he goes with Arsene’s blessing, and to be honest most of the fans have been on his case for the season so it is best for the player and club mood that he moves on.
As for Kevin Doyle does he even sound like an Arsene player to anyone?
Where’s RA?
Tuttut Rasp you couldn’t even follow the career of such a great servant as Seaman after he left us 😉 He joined when Keegan was still there i believe before Schmeichel went there to finish his career. Or maybe it was after Schmeichel….I can’t remember
Hi TA,
No, we’ve emailed Red Arse but still no reply, I’m beginning to get worried, we’re all very fond of the old bugger.
I know GiE, very remiss of me 😳
Just wiki’d it was after the Dane…Seaman’s shoulder couldn’t take it from memory
GiE, I quite like your Christmas tree. In your first 11, you are leaving Rambo and Diaby out which I understand. Yet, both players need to play now: they are ready for it – their careers need to kick off properly. I also would prefer to have a bit more width in our team. In your tree-structure there is a risk that Theo and AA would get drawn towards the middle. How do you feel about a 4-4-2 (Theo/Nasri – Fab/Cesc – Song/Ramsey – Arshavin/Gervinho – – RvP in hole and Chamakh/Bendtner upfront)?
Thanks Rasp, it does not seem to be like RA not to be in touch for three days in a row. Hope he is ok.
Night AA’ers bed’s calling. Thanks for a great day of blogging.
“Who really can face the future? All you can do is project from the past, even when the past shows that such projections are often wrong. And who really can forget the past? What else is there to know?”
— Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values)
Morning all,
I love Kelsey’s field report on the Cesc movements. It makes me think that we need more AA’ers like him. Our “people on the ground” or “assets”.
Keep up the good work Kelsey, or do we refer to you simply as “K”?
TA, it is just a formation, players are interchangeable in the xmas tree.
As for 4-4-2 I wouldn’t be unhappy to see it I just think that the way opponents tend to set up against us we need to try a bit of aerial threat from deep in a 4-4-2 for it to work, and i am just not sure Arsene will go that way.
We definitely need to add some variation to the play if i go to Colney today and see the ball flying through the air we’ll know there’s a change 😀
Morning,
New post ……..
which monitor should i buy…
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