By charybdis 1966
Now the cold light of reality has allowed us to fully comprehend the ramifications of the events at Middle Eastlands on Wednesday night Gooners may perhaps feel it right that a period of introspection follows.
Three quarters of the way through this game at nil nil, the score was looking acceptable however the human bean pole’s goal on 82 minutes meant that when I relayed the final score to my eleven year old son the following morning the look of silent screaming horror on his face was positively (Edvard) Munch-ian.
Bizarrely that result made me feel even worse than the Wigan result, surely the nadir of depths plumbed by our team this season.
The whole squad management question (who to buy/sell and team selection and formation) will be extensively debated, and has been pretty much ever since the first injuries started to take their toll by the autumn last year, so I’m leaving this question aside and I’m also sidestepping the “When should Wenger go” question.
What has got my goat is that during our recent disintegration in form the players on the pitch were very capable of producing the desired results. Having looked at the last 5 matches and the first 5 of this season I decided to evaluate our team’s effectiveness over those two very different periods of the season. Results wise it is blatantly clear our form has dropped; however on closer examination it is possible to look at another performance indicator (a term middle management is keen to bandy about in too many areas of our lives nowadays) to give another perspective on our downward spiral.
We all know we tend to dominate possession in most games, but to my mind meaningful possession has to result in shots on target, side ways passing in midfield ad infinitum will not win you matches, so dividing percentage points by shots on target will show you what use we make of our possession. The lower this value, the better our possession efficiency.
Below is a table which details the change highlighted by this performance indicator:
| Arsenal stats | Match date | Opposition team | Opposition stats | ||||||
| Percentage possession | Shots on target | Percentage points per shot | Percentage possession | Shots on target | Percentage points per shot | ||||
| 56 | 9 | 6.22 | 15/08/2009 | Everton | 44 | 5 | 8.80 | ||
| 47 | 3 | 15.67 | 18/08/2009 | Celtic | 53 | 1 | 53.00 | ||
| 56 | 16 | 3.50 | 22/08/2009 | Portsmouth | 44 | 4 | 11.00 | ||
| 55 | 5 | 11.00 | 26/08/2009 | Celtic | 45 | 3 | 15.00 | ||
| 53 | 3 | 17.67 | 29/08/2009 | Man Utd | 47 | 4 | 11.75 | ||
| Total for first 5 games | 267 | 36 | 7.42 | 233 | 17 | 13.71 | |||
| 37 | 2 | 18.50 | 06/04/2010 | Barcelona | 63 | 8 | 7.88 | ||
| 63 | 11 | 5.73 | 14/04/2010 | Spurs | 37 | 10 | 3.70 | ||
| 54 | 8 | 6.75 | 18/04/2010 | Wigan | 46 | 11 | 4.18 | ||
| 58 | 4 | 14.50 | 24/04/2010 | Man City | 42 | 2 | 21.00 | ||
| 57 | 4 | 14.25 | 03/05/2010 | Blackburn | 43 | 7 | 6.14 | ||
| Total for last 5 games | 269 | 29 | 9.28 | 231 | 38 | 6.08 | |||
If you compare the first 5 games of the season to the last 5 you will see that while we only take about 2 more percentage points to get a shot on target in, our opponents have doubled their possession-shots efficiency, going from 13.71 percentage points per shot on target to 6.08.
This to me points to our opponents conceding possession to us in areas where little attacking intent is seen as well as Arsenal being unaware of the danger of conceding possession to a more efficient, and wily, opponent who uses their possession to greater effect as the season has progressed. Of course we have lost key personnel between the two time periods, Cesc and Robin being the two most crucial misses, and this will inevitably have some influence on our “possession effectiveness”.
Why has this happened? Therein lies my major grouse: we just don’t fight for the ball back anymore like we did in the first few games of the season and when you are happy to let the opposition keep the ball, and certainly an opposition who shoot more, you invite pressure on the defence and suspect goalkeepers alike.
We can all name examples of players not tracking back(the sight of Denilson being outpaced by a referee is an example that springs to mind) is symptomatic of this laissez faire attitude of our team to the less glamorous part of the game, namely the work you need to do when you are not in possession.
Why do we not battle for possession anymore, in the way that Barcelona, a team we aspire to, do ?
Perhaps a lot of the players are operating in a comfort zone whereby a few nifty flicks here and there will mask a performance largely made up of ineffectual strolling around areas of the pitch the opposition are happy for our players to persist in carrying the ball sideways as no one appears to want to take responsibility for forward motion with the ball.
Without Cesc in our team it seems no one wants to take up his role of driving our play forward, or at least no one has tried to do this however Cesc is a special talent and it appears to me that perhaps we are more of a one man team than we may have thought.
Now it’s fair enough for the team to struggle without Cesc, or Robin(or both at some times this season) but what I haven’t been able to stomach is the lack of effort from players who have been given ample chances to step up to the plate and make themselves first team choices.
If we lose a game where all the squad players who are replacements for our preferred starting eleven have tried their utmost and given it their all then defeat is part of supporting a team and can move on, sadder but wiser.
But when I see players in our red and white not doing that, then I’m sad and angry.
You can discuss below who these players are, for me Vela, Diaby and Denilson are three who could have made names for themselves but didn’t.
As an aside perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why we persistently pick up injuries BETWEEN games, Song, Bendtner and Rosicky all managing to injure themselves during the nine day gap between our last two games.
In every one of our last 5 games with the necessary effort put in we should have at least 5 points more than we actually have – and that’s what’s caused the anger and may lead to some form of protest at the game Sunday.
If the “80 minutes walk out”, as I’ve seen on various blogs, happens then maybe the club will take some notice.
Even though it I believe it probably won’t happen, it doesn’t make me feel any less let down by the team than those who do protest.
We have to ask:“Where has the fight gone in our team?”
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Great stuff Chary. I always enjoy your posts.
In answer to your question, I hope someone at THOF has the answer and can remedy the lack of fight.
The possession to shots ratio was very interesting, and it surprises me that the ratio is not lower in the last few games. We have players with powerful and accurate shots, but why they don’t use them when the play becomes so compacted is beyond me. Diaby v MC was a case in point. One shot… Given injured, an inexperienced replacement, then not a single shot for 15 minutes!! It drove me mad….
It is not acceptable to say (as AW did) that the last 10 mins at Wigan was a blip and then repeat it for 60 mins at B’burn.
The fans deserve better
Morning all, I should add that I used the match reports on the BBC for my data – I could have used SkySports as an alternative but anything to do with the Dirty Digger makes me uncomfortable.
Cheers Radders, the reluctance to shoot has been infuriating for the last few months or so and why we didn’t test out the Faroe Islands number 1 more I don’t know. I was sitting a few rows behind him and I could plainly see he looked like a fish out of water.
Morning chary, BR,
Very interesting analysis chary, it confirms what I would have suspected. Actually, going back to the recent poll on here, I felt was that the keeper was the most important factor in our failure to win the title, but the loss of Cesc would have been second and RvP third.
Unfortunately I shan’t be around to watch the debate unfold – have fun 😉
Lets get a point and forget about this one. Good read Chary.
Oh, and just to agree with your point, it can no longer be a coincidence …. there must a deliberate program in our training that conditions our players to look for the clever pass rather than shoot.
Possession has never won a game. Despite the fact that we pick up injuries in training, I think our practice games/training regimes need to be more competitive so that the players hone rather than dull their ‘killer instinct’.
Bugger that London 😛 let’s get three points and end the season on a (small) high so that at least the players can give a lap of honour at the Emirates after a good performance and the fans have something to cheer.
True London – I’d like this season to be put to bed, like a Newsnight analyst, asap.
It wouldn;t surprise me if there is some key element of our training regime that has caused this inhibition when it comes to shooting Raspers.
Have a meeting shortly but I’ll be back later.
I’d give all the support for the Fulham game but after when they do the lap of honour Arsenal fans should let them have both barrels, it’s about time Wenger ands some of those players know we are not happy and won’t be unless we see changes…how many of us can withstand another season like this one, I know I won’t and it’s about time the club earned the right to earn our money, some of our performances were disgraceful this season. 950 us a lot of money to watch a team of cry babies and a manger who blames everyone but himself
All very factual and sadly accurate. When we opened the season at Goodison I had the feeling that this was the year. Free-flowing, attacking 4-3-3 at its best. Then slowly the inevitable injuries set in and we all sat back and knew what would happen. Desperately needing additions to the squad in January and no one came! What can we really expect? This club’s policy on transfers has never been the same since David Dein was shown the door. Despite some of his failings, he was Arsenal to the core. A fan. Not a name with cash.
I think that if we are to succeed next season we need to bring him or someone similar in, plus Tony Adams and Steve Bould. Pat Rice has had his day. Wenger is very close – unless he is released from the shackles of being mediator in many guises.
Morning all
Really good post chary. I firmly believe that a change in tactics has brought about the lack of fight – early in the season we were charging after every ball to win back possession and then that stopped………..seemed strange at the time and even more pathetic now 😦
Hi Chary,
Nice post man……i would say please go ahead and implement either the 80mins walkout or stay till the end and let the players and manager have it…..I want to see fight from anyone who wears the read and white….the board better make changes on the pitch.mediocrity should end- no more diabys and denilsons.We need more of verminators and cescs……up the arsenal….
Welcome Indian gooner – I’m ambivalent about what form – if any – of protest there should be. On the one hand I’m as gutted as the next gooner about our pathetic end of season form, but some players have tried there all – Sol, Vermaelen & Robin to name a few.
If the 80 minute thing did happen though I’d struggle to denounce it with a clear conscience.
Peachy – I think I was remarkably restrained in my post, compared to how incensed I felt Wednesday night. It’s truly sad how the fighting spirit we saw at the beginning of the season, and a few flashes of this later on(Hull away, Stoke away), has vanished so completely in April & May.
For all the excellent qualities our manager possesses, I do not see him having the personality to inspire a ruthless fighting spirit in the players before they take to the pitch. Our players always look too relaxed particularly when they come on after half time when they stroll around chatting. We’ve been guilty of lapses if concentration after half time a lot this season. Sometimes you can’t see Sol clapping his hands and urging them to wake up because his experience tells him they are not switched on enough.
Wenger is no master of the hairdryer Raspers that’s for sure. I think the most painful instance of this relaxed attitude on re starts is the Barcelona game at home. It was nil nil and Mad Jens was being interviewed on TV and talking about how well Almunia had done in the first half.
As soon as he stopped talking, Ibra was gently lofting the ball over Almunia.
Aaarrgghhhh !
Chary, thanks for the analysis but I don’t agree with the conclusions that are emerging. Valid frustrations but come on, are we going to start behaving like the Spuds under Ramos (Gross, Pleat ….)?
80 minute walkout? ‘Give them both barrels’ after the whistle? We’ll be booing our own players next – I forgot, some fans already started that.
I’ll cheer them on to beat Fulham just the same as ever because we need the result, then thank them for another decent season with some good moments then hope that AW can find a way to lift us from one of the top 6 clubs in the world to nearer the top 3. Then wait in hope for next season like every season.
well said, alfa.
rasp, it’s the type of players at one’s disposal that create the fight to begin with.
a manager can only stoke up that internal fight, he cannot create it.
fergie has always bought and developed those types.
Aw did to a slight extent, but in recent years has leaned too far one way with the skillful, silky ball players.
That balance needs addressing this summer, and as many keep suggesting… the side needs a b@stard or 2.
i note that liverpool fans, who support a proper great, historic club, finish the season in a lowly 7th… and set for a season or 3 of life without CL footy… complete disaster… but not a ounce of protest/demonstration/boycott talk… just support the club/team best we can… the poeple behind the scenes must surely be able to see the problems and will do the best to fix them.
gooners?
Is this 80 minute protest thing serious or will there just be two empty seats in Club Level behind the goal?
Alfa, what conclusions would you draw? I put forward those stats to try and see where/why our attacking threat had diminished but when you analyse a situation where the parameters and outcomes are not easy to evaluate then the subjectivity of conclusions reached will make for a variety of personal conclusions.
I do feel that Cesc’s presence has ended up being more significant than I’d thought – butr asa I said earlier, in what way do you feel it not correct to say that we don’t pressurise teams in possessin as much as we used to and we don’t make gainful use of possession?
London – I read on other blogs that on 80 minutes it was suggested that everyone should leave simultaneously; of course we get early leavers anyway so that may dilute the effect of such a protest.
LOL Chary. Very true.
And I think there will be very few attending fans who will protest.
The end of season run around the pitch is great and i wish I had the wherewithall to be there
SfH. It should be noted that Anfield did not sell out the game against the Chavs, the Scousers are not happy….
Chary, I don’t doubt that the stats show where we are going wrong, I thought it was a good break down with a lot of good points. But in another way, the tone suggests that we have an entitlement to be No. 1 with the best blend of skilful and tough players. I hope we have that next season but personally I won’t treat our players and manager like failures just because we aren’t on top.
I can’t see where I said that I expect us to be the number one Alfa, all I concluded was that in my opinion we had sufficient playing resources to win the Blackburn and Wigan games as long as the players put in their maximum effort.
I’ve never implied we have a god given right to win every game.
BR – they have not totally sold out a game all season, they are skint oop norf.
I think there are ways to protest, and a time to protest.
I certainly don’t see this as the time.. how can it be?
1. Most gooners thought we would struggle to finishe top 4 last summer, challenge for the title? loool you are nutters, part of the wenger cult.
REALITY: We will finish 3rd, after having challenged for the title with 2 weeks of the season to go.
2. Vermalen is too short to make it in the premiership, even TA6 questioned his abilites last summer, gooners bemoaned we needed a better signing.
REALITY: Been the best signing for years, made the PFA team of the season, and him missing the last few games has told, with the results. Do i want AW to go out and but more with his spirit? oh yes Do i believe AW can spot them? do you need to ask?
3. Nikk B is not good enough, we needed to spend 20M in january on another striker.
REALITY: he score something like 10 in 13 games, not even torres or drogba could have done any better.
In summing up.. yes the season has whimpered to a shuddering halt… but dont be mind washed by the negativity of many gooners and the press who HATE us and are gutted it was liverpool and not us who finished out of the top 4.
Back the club, give AW the chance to spend this summer and correct inbalances, he was not as wrong as many believed he was last summer… we did challenge for the title.
Chary, fair point, you didn’t say we had to be No.1. Like I said, it was a good post. I guess I’m reacting to the general tone of negativity from so many people, not just on this blog.
I thought we were pretty pathetic against Wigan in the second half, the worst performance of the season, but every team has its ups and downs and the few downs we have are far, far outweighed by the ups for me.
By the way, to the Hiddink fans, I heard a little while ago on the radio and TV that he has said he doesn’t want to manage in club football any more.
Well that’s agreed Alfa – I’ll support my players no matter what the result as long as they try, for example I actually felt proud of us after a defeat, the 2-1 defeat at Old Toilet as they played their best and lost due to yet another Rooney dive.
The recent apalling displays have depressed me somewhat and it’s not because of buying the right players or not – it was down to lack of effort.
Not wanting to go back to the manager thing but …. I would hate for us to take a manager over the age of 50. If we can keep AW in a consultative capacity, a younger man would be great- Lauren Blanc perhaps or someone of that ilk.
Chary, I agree, we have moved forward this season and the past few weeks should not overshadow the progress.
Half the squad fit means twice the work for the rest. That results in injuries.
If we work more on the crossing technique to get balls in the box instead of wasting energy for no result & practicing dead ball situations with long range power work, again we can save the running around.
If you can knock the stuffing out of a team early WITH A DECENT DEFENCE you can cruise the rest of the game & save energy……….oh well back to the transfer sagas.
Well researched article chary and it is a fair criticism, but by and large I am with Alfa that this team has made considerable progress this year.
Darius over on ACLF has a very good article today if anyone is interested on this subject
http://aculturedleftfoot.wordpress.com/
Big Raddy, as I said the other day, if we can’t get Guardiola or Hiddink, how about Coyle in a year’s time if AW can’t solve this mess (with BergKamp his No2).
Pat7. Are you suggesting we go Route One?? Can you really see AW playing like that, especially after his criticism of Fat Sam’s tactics?
Perhaps, Pat, but I would go for a manager with CL experience and sadly Coyle will not get it at Bolton. That said, he is a coming man as is Martinez at Wigan. It is great to see traditional “Northern” teams playing attacking football
Pat7 – what mess re you talking about? this is an arsenal blog not a liverpool blog.
I don’t think he’s a Route 1 manager but until he can improve the skills of the squad he’s taken over he has to employ their best skills and advantage currently.
They definitely are playing better than they were IMO.
SH – mess?
Being beaten by Spuds 1st time in 10 years.
Maybe overtaken by them this weekend.
Can’t cross a ball (about 1 in 20)
Dead ball situations wasted 19 out of 20)
GK, DM, CB etc needed since before Eduardo got mashed!
……………
Is that enough?
Pat7, I’m note sure about Coyle’s character but I can see the potential. I agree someone like that needs to be being groomed for a succession but maybe 5 years from now. Man U don’t seem to have a successor lined up inside or outside the club. I think every big name in the world would be linked with Arsenal.
I don’t know about ‘mess’ but it does feel like a very untidy end to the season when we can’t even agree whether we’ve had a decent enough season or ought to sack the manager! 🙂
On that score, what must Sparky be feeling like having been sacked in 6th with a bit of momentun and seeing Mancini only make it to 5th and get the ‘vote of confidence’?
Pat7 – is being beaten by spuds once in the last 22 league games a mess? 😆
can you give me a source to those stats please
and Pat, i will openly state, i will give you 10 thousand great british pounds if spuds finish above us in the league.
do you wish to counter offer to seal the deal?
Alfa – I’m not saying AW should be sacked – he’s done a great job but maybe has reached his limit; the next year will show us.
As I’ve said we’ve had the same problem for the last 3 years & he’s done nothing about it. Maybe it’s funds in part but a defensive coach surely would have sorted out those shortcoming by now with the people he’s had.
Our players used to play Wenger-ball but 4-3-3 seems to have put paid to that. The players seem so intent on passing that they’ve forgotten their shooting boots/skills so now bar Fab4 struggle to HIT the ball with even Rosicky falling in line when he can start.
i remember the media used to tell us all arsenal wanted to do was pass the ball into the net.
around about the time we went 49 games unbeatean 😉
and it would have been a great more than 49 had the referee not been paid off that day.
red fred had a 100% cast iron penalty not given and the fat scouser tripped himself up for the penalty.
Pat7, true, the next year will show a lot. You are right that the quality of the shooting hasn’t been great, not just the quantity.
I guess part of my concern in that I dread us bringing in another top manager who sets us back. They could be a great name, bring in some top players, maybe even win a cup or two but slowly but surely allow the whole ethos of the club to unravel. As SfH points out, Liverpool are a great example of that for me, albeit with different problems. Benitez inherited a good squad, won the ultimate prize and hasn’t been all bad but look at the state they are in now. Their subs make Denilson etc. look like World Cup winners.
I’m no expert in football management though, I guess the right person is out there somewhere.
SH – My Dad told me only to bet what I can afford to lose & being a pensioner, having given my equity to my kids to get them on the property market, I can’t, not that I would…LOL. Harry is far better at motivation and tactics than AW, so although I think that scenario is unlikely with Fulham risking their side before the Cup they’ve fought for all season, it’s possible which galls me when you think of the points we’ve squandered……
Where has the fight gone?
Well that is a question for the boss to answer wouldnt it?
Why should they fight anyways when they will inevitably be rewarded with contract extensions and some more playing time? Who is droppable in this team if they dont have an injury? Why should they bother to fight when AW constantly defends them and gives them a pat on the back when they keep dropping clangers and they cant be arsed to track back and defend and yet its not a question of defensive lapses but its a question of losing belief?
If I told you at the start of the year that Lucaz Fab is absolute gutter shite like Ive been telling anyone who bothered to listen I wouldve been labelled a doomer and quite rightly so I have.
What is the point in hindsight when you have your foresight? Has there been any performances bar Wigan in the Carling cup that showed Fabianski is anything but decent at best?
Great Article Charry,
Its a shame that those stats fall on deaf ears because its an american way of distorting/bending the truth.
My guess is this isnt the first time we have asked ourselves at the business end of the season where the fight has gone.
But dont worry, its these players fault, cant possibly be AW. No way.
Pat, it certainly is galling, but in reality.. if we look at the pathetic amount of money they have spent since 2004 (circa 220 M) and compare and contrast with what we have spent(32M PROFIT), what we have built(emirates), what we have achieved in that time(omnipresent in top 4, the best footballing academy in the land)….. and STILL they can only get to within a couple of points of us? and that is following a near perfect season for them.
Is that all they got?
I laugh in their faces.
Spuds should not see us as there rivals anymore, not until they move to a bigger house, and win a title or 6 since almost half a century ago.
They are peasants compared to us, lets not big them up too much.
They have NOT qualified for CL yet, they are through to a CL play-off
and i hope they get lumbered in russia for that one.
Alfa – Agreed there. Just think we could have had Alonso for about £14M the season before last – we only bid 12 – they sold him for 30+ last year I think & have gone backwards ever since. Can’t believe their collapse.
Pat7- do you honestly believe pool would have let us have alonso when they lost out on barry?
honestly?
SH – I’ll def drink to that one LOL.
I think there’s a chance. Didn’t they lose out on Barry because of funds? – that’s why they were ‘touting’ Alonso as he did not get on with Benitez at the time but played a blinder the following season hence the title bid!
GF. I don’t really understand what you are saying.
That you knew Fab2 was shite?
That our reserve side would not have the fight required?
An American way ? What does that mean – is it a positive or negative?
I don’t ever recall an AFC side lacking in fight. And a team with TV, Cesc, RvP, Song, Sol or WG would not be lacking leaders
SfH. There are some tasty teams in the CL qualifiers but I fear the Spuds will get seeded
i never bought that alonso story, it made no sense, some were even trying to suggest we missed out on him by a mere 500K, that is just shit stirring.
i think he would have been available if they could get a deal done for barry, in the end that fell through, so no matter what anybody offered for alonso, they were going to keep him.
alonso got pissed off, he felt he was not wanted, played a blinder, like flamini did when we accepted an offer from brum the previous summer, and then went as soon as a offer from a european giant came in.
GF,
Fabianski has made the greatest save in an Arsenal shirt along with Seaman, can you blame anyone for expecting thing from him? He can’t handle the spotlight but how could you know that without pushing him in it?
Arsene Wenger has his style of management which is where he treats his players like family members. That is he’ll never castigate them in public but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t coach them. Have you ever met a coach who didn’t point out your errors and scold you?
As for the American way of doing things, it made them what they are today that’s a country which pretty much controls the economy and policies of the world, so I don’t know whrer you’re getting at.
Excuse the typos I’m a bit pissed…
BR
Are you saying that we are playing a reserve side? Fabianski is our no 2. He’s not a reserve player he’s a sub off the bench.
Im saying ive always known he was dodgy if you looked at the games he played at anfield last year and both games with chelsea.
Apologies about the American thing there is some confusion.
I came up with stats in my recent posts and they were dismissed as an american way of bending the truth because stats are supposedly misleading.
The Alonso story is very simple.
Alonso was up for sale. We came in with a pathetic bid…end off.
If we bid 20m for Alonso Benitez wouldve driven him to London himself.
Mayank
I give up…its one of those things were we wouldve done well with experience.
If there is anything to take from this campaign is that we need experience. No doubt Fabainski has talent but to put him in the spot light when he’s hardly played any games did not do well for his mental strength…suffice to say that is the policy of Wenger.
Replacing experience with young talent and it hasnt worked.
Hopefully that will change now.
Experience is key true but personally before the season started I’d have said that Almunia’s a solid and unspectacular ‘keeper and Fabianski’s talent who can make it. Winter window I’d have said we need a new keeper for us long term. And Wenger should have tried harder to get him but the current global GK scenario isn’t encouraging.
For me the main factor is can Wenger coach these kids to handle high pressure situation. And I include everyone bar RvP and Sol in that, even Cesc.
Nice original research and analysis Chary. I think you touched on an important point when you questioned whether a change in the coaching approach explained the difference in our work effort between the start of the season and the end.
I’ll admit I don’t know much about the coaching set-up at the club, but it is an area that I worry about. If you look at our first choice defence – Sagna, Gallas, Verm, Clichy – I would say that, player for player, it’s as good as anyone’s, yet we ship more soft goals than any of the other ‘top’ teams. It feels like something that could be addressed by better coaching (of both the defence and the midfield). Likewise the way we play when we don’t have the ball: Barca’s work effort when they lose possession is not just down to ‘spirit and pluck’ – it is clearly a carefully coached method.
New coach anyone? How about Steve Clarke?
And could coaching explain our GK situation? Bob Wilson retired at the end of the 2002/3 season, leaving Mad Jens in place. Since then our ‘keeps have been seriously dodgy.
GF. May I respectfully say that the Alonso story you present is total fabrication.
Dippers wanted Barry. Alonso quite rightly was p’ed off. So was MoN who refused to sell . Benitez refused to sell Alonso without having Barry.
It had nothing to do with how much we offered……. end of.
& as Mayank says. Fab2 has made some fantastic saves but clearly needed pitch time to establish if he was good enough or not. I suppose you will claim that you KNEW Song would come good? Until the player is in the firing line and has a run of games behind him, you can never tell. Just look at Gomes at WHL.
Rocky- One could look at some of the GK’s Bob coached … he thought Taylor was the dogs, and recommended Wright !
Bob Wilson wasn’t the only one to recommend Wright. For a while he had the mantle of being ‘England’s next great ‘keeper’ – which is pretty much guaranteed to curse anyone’s career.
Taylor was never an Arsenal No. 1, and if Bob thought he was a decent number 2 that’s fine by me.
He coached Lukic, Seaman and Jens, who all did pretty well.
G Face – I like your passion for our team and you share my disappointment at the attitude shown towards the end.
Raspers if you are here can you add something to the data table – I didn’t notice till now but you have omitted the stats for the opposition team, as below:
Opposition stats
percentage possession Shots on target Percentage points per shot
44 5 8.80
53 1 53.00
44 4 11.00
45 3 15.00
47 4 11.75
233 17 13.71
63 8 7.88
37 10 3.70
46 11 4.18
42 2 21.00
43 7 6.14
231 38 6.08
I don’t know how this will show up but basically this shows how the opposition’s effectiveness doubled from the first 5 games to the last.
Raspers I think it was a formatting error, what has happened is that you have lost the stats and what I’ve just put up doesn’t line up like it should. The 13.71 is the percentage points per shot on target for the first 5 games and the 6.08 for the last 5.
It may explain why my point about how we’ve regressed and the opposition has flourished at the season end has not been appreciated so much.
was anybody aware that seaman comes in a helps out with the younger keepers?
i wasn’t until, bob w let it slip in an interview at some bash recently that celebrated the fairs cup win.
I’ll try at put the table up as it was supposed to look like:(I couldn’t look at the post on a full screen as I was at the office so I didn’t notice the stats table being truncated):
Opposition team Opposition stats
percentage possession Shots on target Percentage points per shot
Everton 44 5 8.80
Celtic 53 1 53.00
Portsmouth 44 4 11.00
Celtic 45 3 15.00
Man Utd 47 4 11.75
233 17 13.71
Barcelona 63 8 7.88
Spurs 37 10 3.70
Wigan 46 11 4.18
Man City 42 2 21.00
Blackburn 43 7 6.14
231 38 6.08
No I wasn’t SfH – I thought he’d retired to his fishing and other such stuff.
same here, most surprised this was not made a bigger deal of.
maybe he is just doing some very minimal work with the youth keepers in preparation for the main golakeepers coaching role.
BR
I think it is quite clear that Benitez didnt have the money and was looking so raise the funds from the Alonso sale.
You just cant convince me that if we bid 20m he wouldnt have accepted the bid…He’d have had more than enough money to get Barry.
IF there is one thing Benitez is good at it is overpaying to get his man.
See G.Johnson and R.Keane.
BR
re: Song…that is actually the subject of my next post.
Great minds.
Pat7 Says:
May 7, 2010 at 6:21 pm
I think there’s a chance. Didn’t they lose out on Barry because of funds? – that’s why they were ‘touting’ Alonso as he did not get on with Benitez at the time but played a blinder the following season hence the title bid!
————-
Precisely.
Ahh Ghost Face, like a bad penny.
I am no where near as diplomatic as BR and because of that I will say to you that you do not have the faintest idea what went on with the Alonso deal, not an inkling, there is no possible way of you knowing the offer Arsenal put in for him or even if there was one. The reality is that out of the two possible options you chose the anti Arsenal line……what does that say about you?
chary,
I’ve just looked at your email again and those stats weren’t transmiited for some reason. Sorry if you feel it has affected the article, but having read back it has been a great success in terms of inspiring comments 😉
GF. I could write extensively to prove my point about the Alonso deal, but the time and an excess of a noble Italian Barolo prevent me.
Suffice to say that presented with the same set of facts you would interpret them differently. Wood and trees…..
GF. I look forward to the post…
There is no anti-Arsenal line anywhere.
Would it also be anti-Arsenal if i said AW didnt bid enough for Ronaldo or what?
Absolute rubbish.
Alonso was clearly for sale. And Benitez wouldve sold if we put a strong bid in. Simples.
BR
Its difference of opinions and the fact that AW has been penny pinching for a long long time.
One thing is for sure though..I would be more likely to be convinced with an explanation than to be labelled anti-Arsenal.
You have absolutely no way of knowing if Alonso wanted to stay in England or return to Spain…..non what so ever. You had two options and you took the anti Arsenal line.
There is no anti-Arsenal line or option or whatever fabrication of a label you want to form in your head.
Madrid wasnt even involved in the transfers when we were in for him so who says he knew about the option to go to spain?
Are you serious?
I’ve been in touch with Peachy, but Raspers it’s your call as ever, it’s just with the original full stats it makes more sense.
I knew I should have copied out the excel stuff onto word rather than cut & pasted !
I am very serious Ghost Face, I will write slowly for you. You have no idea if Alonso wanted to return to Spain and therefore he was not interested in coming to Arsenal be it at the time of the negotiation or the following season. You had two options and yet again you chose to take the anti Arsenal line…..what does that say about you.
And another thing you seem to be unclear on. Arsène Wenger’s job is to identify potential singings, no more, it is then the boards representative’s responsibility to negotiate the terms – if a negotiation is not completed it is the fault of the negotiator not Wenger. Small steps Ghost Face, small steps, you will get it soon.
You will write slowly for me….ROFL HAHAHAHAHA!
Great job that makes a big difference writing slowly for me. Much appreciated.
There are 2 options quite right…Fact and Fiction.
What is fact is Alonso handed in a tranfer request after the Barry Saga.
He wanted out of Liverpool. Simples. That is fact.
What is also fact is that he had no idea Madrid would elect a certain president who builds galactico’s and he certainly didnt know any club would be spending 35m for him when he was handing in his request.
Keep persisting with your anti-Arsenal rubbish…type as slowly as you want. Im sure it will come up on the screen an ASCII letter at a time.
“Xabi loves Liverpool but he doesn’t feel he can stay. He has not been happy for a long time and wants to go somewhere he feels he can enjoy his football again.”
That was in July of 2008 before there was even a half print of press interest from Madrid.
Ghost face the elections for the leadership of Real Madrid start more than a year in advance, if Alonso put in a transfer request it is easy to imagine that Perez would have contacted him to say that if I win I want you. And to get this in perspective, this is the equivalent of Arsène Wenger phoning me or you, not perfect I admit but you get the point. There is just as much chance of this happening as any other scenario you have put forward. I don’t know for sure and neither do you the difference between us is that out of the two options you have chosen to take the anti Arsenal line………what does that say about you?
Is there another team you secretly wish you supported Ghost Face?
Are you accusing Perez of Tapping up the player?
And if so how come we didnt hear about it?
Where did you get that speculation from or are you in fantasy world again?
London Says:
May 7, 2010 at 10:15 pm
There is just as much chance of this happening as any other scenario you have put forward
———-
Tell me what scenario have I put forward.
I’ve given you quotes and Ive given you facts you are daydreaming “scenarios”…I’d love to entertain more of your fantasies but this is getting boring very quickly. Its quite clear you not informed…and just going off of your opinion.
Furthermore Perez only announced his candacy for the presidency in May of 2009. Over a year after Alonso handed in his request.
When you are prepared to talk facts and stop coming up with useless name-calling and delusional fantasies youve labelled “scenarios” we may continue this conversation.
Alonso puts in a transfer request…..Perez calls…..in that order….not tapping up. Why didn’t we hear about it? We did, Alonso went to Real Madrid. I am not certain which is what I said above: “There is just as much chance of this happening as any other scenario you have put forward. I don’t know for sure and neither do you.”
There are two options: the pro Arsenal one or the anti Arsenal one and you choose the Anti Arsenal one every time…..what does that say about you?
You do not have the faintest idea what went on between Arsenal and Liverpool over Alonso. Things you read in news papers and other blogs are not facts, they are statments; you have a choice to believe them or not and every time you choose to take the anti Arsenal line…..what does that say about you?
Perez called….Did Jesus Also Call? How bout St Mary?
That isnt even grasping at straws that is utter fabrication.
It has absolutely nothing to do with taking an Anti-Arsenal rubbish…life is not black and white…sometimes its grey Jeez…this is getting very boring.
Perez called a year and some change Specifically for Alonso..Did he call for Benzema too? Or was it just Alonso? Did he call for Kaka?
And your saying he did all this calling before he announced to anyone that he would be running for the presidency or even considering it?
I think you’re more than happy to see facts and daydream fantasies that are unreal and quite delusional. Its quite worrying
What does that say about you?
It becomes even more hilarious that Alonso wasnt even the first Liverpool player that they signed as a galactico.
They signed him in August closer towards the deadline.
But dont worry Perez called Alonso while he was asleep to assure he would be like Neo in the Matrix. The one.
Even doubly hilarious that Alonso was the last signing of the Galactico’s…an after thought.
When they finished getting all the important players the Benzema’s the Kaka’s, The Ronaldo’s and even Arbe fucking loa…they Signed Alonso
O yes..That just screams of the Intention to sign the player A year before he was elected.
GF. Not again. What is this? Who can piss higher up the wall???
You DO NOT KNOW. No-one does. It is just supposition. I BELIEVE you are wrong in your assessment , and you BELIEVE you are right.
The only people who KNOW have made no statements about it.
Just let it go……
Yesterday you insulted a blogger by calling his writing “incoherent ramblings”, today you say a regular has “delusional fantasies”. Please stop.
Wishing you a peaceful night sleep and a delightful weekend.
It is quite conceivable that Perez had a wish list at least one year before announcing his candidacy. Yet again I am not saying this is a fact but it is just as likely as any scenario that you have put forward. Does that word have too many syllables for you?
It is quite conceivable that Alonso wanted to return to Spain rather than stay in England, be it with Arsenal or any other club. In fact I would say this is more likely than any other suggestion that anyone has put forward including this silly anti Arsenal idea that we never got him because we wouldn’t offer a couple of mil more. Neither you nor I know the truth the difference is that as I realise this I choose not to use it to beat Arsenal with where as you do…..you had two choices and you chose the anti Arsenal one…….what does that say about you?
BR
What i know is that Alonso handed in a tranfer request and Arsenal were interested before there was any mention of Madrid.
That is fact.
What I am prepared to admit I dont know is if we made a substantial bid or not. I have my opinion based on our dealings in the past and how “prudent” we have been when it comes to signing players.
If Arsene Wenger comes out tomorrow and says he Almost signed Alonso much like he’s done for a few players because he refused to up the bid like he did for a few players would that make Wenger…..
Anti-Arsenal?
Apologies to Kelsey.
Have a great night.
We are just having a bit of fun, it is all under control, enjoy the Barolo.
I’m off Ghost Face, have a good weekend.
London
What Scenario did I put forward.
Do you know what a fact is?
You have no idea when Real Madrid showed their interest.
Actually I do.
It was on August 3 2009
“What I am prepared to admit I dont know is if we made a substantial bid”
Now we are getting some where.
Is that the date that it was in the press?
The Press report what has happened in the past. You do not know when Alonso was first contacted and just because you read it on 3/8/2009 in a news paper makes no difference.
This is true but Im pretty sure AW contacting Benitez for Alonso is more concrete than a guy who may or may not be president in over a years time.
Good night Ghost Face
You lost this one.
Only because I have to run on a date!
Gnite Old Timer!
Dont hurt yourself this weekend!
😉
I know you will read this Ghost Face
So I will use small words to help you understand.
No one is disputing that Arsenal showed an interest in Alonso, it is what happened after that is in dispute. Without any evidence, apart from something that you have read on another blog, you have arrived at the belief that the club lost out because they didn’t offer enough money. There are so many other reasons why we didn’t sign him, including the most valid in my opinion that he wanted to return to Spain. Do you now see how you have a choice in what you believe? There are two options and out of those two you chose the anti Arsenal line……..what does that say about you?
New post …..