There was a time, not too long ago when football wasn’t about money, it was about a manager, assembling a squad of players to challenge for titles, promotions and avoiding relegation.
In those times many teams could win the League or FA Cup given the right manager and the right players. The manager would choose the playing style and would build a team to compete, in those times everyone started the season with a glimmer of hope star players were spread throughout the top league, some even stayed with their teams when they were relegated or not doing as well.
Fans who went to games and watched their teams discussed the players on the pitch the decisions of the manager on the day, the news during the week was not much to do with football, it might have had the odd reference to an injury or the occasional transfer (as this was pre transfer window).
Players contracts were irrelevant as the club held the registration even if the contract had expired, that was up until Bosman.
But mainly post game we discussed who had the best players, which team had employed those players best, and what an idiot the referee was or otherwise.
Normally we were biased towards our own team, and rightly so like anything we love we forgave their flaws and focus on the good. I mean I used to defend George Graham’s long ball tactics because it won us trophies? No because my team were using them. Just like Stoke fans did under Pulis.
Maybe I’m wearing rose tinted glasses, maybe I am just fed up with being out manoeuvred by Oligarch clubs, afterall most football clubs were owned by a few wealthy individuals, who normally had to reach into their pockets to find the money to fulfil the managers ambitions.
Maybe part of me wishes Arsene Wenger had never come to the club and given us the greatest football I may ever witness as an Arsenal fan. Because even if it hasn’t happened I would still be going to the Arsenal when I could, I’d still be watching every game we played on TV, but what I wouldn’t have to deal with is defending the club from those from outside and in who think we are somehow entitled to expect more than we currently achieve.
When I first started going to Highbury challenging for titles was not on my mind, all I cared about was going to football to watch my club play football. I certainly wasn’t thinking about the business side of the club, now admittedly I was a kid, why would I, but the thing is I still want to be a kid when I go to football, I don’t want to think about the things I can’t control. If we had the fortune to put a good season together of course I was excited to try and win stuff, who wouldn’t be.
I love talking football, the various tactical nuances the pros and cons of defenders and goalkeepers, but I can’t remember the last time that’s all I spoke about, now it has to be about transfers, spending, ticket prices, profits, owners etc. Things I understand admittedly, but not really what I want to be discussing. I try and explain the situation we are in to alleviate the frustrations felt by others, because seriously I couldn’t give a shit if we never win another trophy in my lifetime, I’ll always be an Arsenal supporter and they will always be By Far The Greatest Team, and I know I’ll now be labelled as the problem the unambitious type that allows the club to say 4th is a trophy, but here is the thing it wouldn’t bother me if we finished 10th I’d still go, as many of you would. In fact I think we’d all enjoy it a little bit more.
I want to discuss the one thing we can see on the pitch, the performance, the team selection and the tactics.
Take Saturday’s defeat to Villa, we missed Arteta, we were done by the ref, Wilshere and Ramsey need to find a way to work together, Sagna had an off day (even before he was moved to left back), Theo disappeared. They should have been the discussion points, but it turns into an argument about what the club have or haven’t spent who is or isn’t responsible. Is this why anyone started following football? Is this why anyone loves football, is this what got you hooked on the beautiful game?
I’ve signed my son up for Junior Gunners, I’m starting to think I made a mistake, living in Norwich I see the majority of lads wearing Norwich City shirts, the fans enjoy the ride, yes I hear them moan and complain about performances, but they are happy to go to games together as a community, if I’m near the ground on matchday I hear On The Ball City ring out across the City. I’m jealous, jealous that they still go to football for the right reasons, a sold out ground with little chance of success, but they enjoy it. I hear the moans after defeats, they are not talking about how they should’ve signed x y and z, they are talking about which players did well, what the manager should have done. That’s not to say they haven’t had issues, Season Tickets being thrown at Bryan Gunn, but this was a team that two seasons earlier were in the PL and were having their asses handed to them by Colchester in League 1, just a bit of a comedown (still a sold out ground though).
I think I need a break from blogging, I need to enjoy football again. I’m not doing that on blogs, I’ve had more rational conversations with Liverpool and Spurs fans over this weekend than I’ve had on the web.
Gooner in Exile
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
I have to say for the first time in a long time I’m not really as interested in going out of my way to watch games as I used to be.
We really don’t have a squad that can challenge for anything, no matter what Wenger says, and the continued failure to strengthen it has become the norm.
So if those in charge of the club have no passion for improving the team, why the fuck should I?
Superb, GIE.
I’m in 100% agreement.
Saturday and its fallout was one of the first times I’ve ever thought about ditching my season ticket and instead using the money to do something which is enjoyable.
Something is sucking the life out of it. Some would say Wenger, some Kroenke, some money, some the media. Who knows what it is? But there’s definitely something.
If Wenger and Kroenke leave, I really can’t see anything changing in how the fans react to the club. Maybe an oligarch and a few bought titles might do the trick.
Wengers delusions have infected the fans also.
Arsenal are the only fans in the world who can defend highest ticket prices in the uk with average players on high wages and all money invested into the leather boardroom, whilst the manger has them believe they can win Wimbledon, the champions league and the premier league ever season.
Wake up arsenal fans, the dream of competing ended many many years ago.
Pay your ticket prices and shut up pretending.
Sucking the joy out of it………………….
Me and my chums did the Emirates stadium tour in the summer, for the first time, having done the Highbury tour a few times many years ago. What hit us what that, whereas Highbury had been about the history of the club and the stadium and all the greats we’d seen there over the years, the Emirates was all about commercialism, how modern-day footballers are looked after, the great facilities in the Diamond Club…the whole thing was about money.
Yes, obviously, we can’t talk about the things we’ve won in that stadium, but the focus on money money money was so sad to see. They honestly think that’s the way forward there now – profit = success.
I flew out from Bahrain just to watch the game vs Villa. Words can’t describe how disappointed I was at the state of the team. You summed up how I feel thusly, GIE. Sad sad times.
I came in from Kinshasa for the AV game. I am going to the Champs League qualifier next week before I fly back. I think we need to adopt a siege mentality against all the negativity surrounding the club at the moment. Most of this has been generated from external sources, and has only really permeated the club and the fans since Saturday, although I accept that it has been building for some time.
The one thing that we should not do is start having a go at each other – whilst we can have differing opinions, a united front against external dissent is what we should be striving for. I can accept that on Saturday, I was surrounded by those wishing to see Wenger go, and some who want Wenger to stay – don’t boo the team and don’t leave when a goal goes in against us. Stay till the end and clap Wilshere off (hopefully his team-mates will then all stay out rather than skulking off down the tunnel)
Chas,
Blogging is a focal point for disaffected fans, and the disillusionment GIE has written about and the way you feel too, the fans GIE is referring to just will not see it unfortunately.
I have been feeling the same for quite a long time, and have cut back from blogging on all other sites.
If you and GIE and other regulars I enjoy chatting to start dropping out, I will call time too.
GIE, Great post. Like chas i feel your pain.
You are needed GIE. A voice of reason and intelligent perspective.
The only thing i can say to you GIE is this. Your relationship to football is what you make it, not what some one else trys to force on you.
I thought about giving it a rest for a while but then decided no.
On reflection i have spent some time analysing the clubs situation and concluded that things are not right.
However, our current shortcomings are understandable. Through out my life time Arsenal was always respected for been a well run club. It had an internal structure and culture that made the machinery run smoothly.
The move to the Grove, though necessary, changed all this.
Talk about earthquakes. Not only did we move home, we quickly had to disassemble and reassemble a new team. The ownership changed, the Directors changed, the existing staffs role changed, the football landscape changed.
And with all these changes the culture and feel of the club changed.
Arsenal are in an identity crises and need to establish themselves, but the ironic thing is that today’s uncertainty is tomorrows strength.
Once the club gets the right internal structures in place we will find out something. That Arsenal is a true giant in modern football,and that future generations of supporters, players, managers and owners will benefit from
I am not downcast, far from it, and quite frankly i don’t care if people think i am delusional or crackers, that’s there problem not mine.
Arsenals future is set in stone, and it is a great one,
Terrific impassioned post GiE. 2013 has been a horrible year for me and I’d like nothing more than to do as you say and just focus on the simple joy of football.
Sorry, GIE, I should have complimented you on your Post but the content makes that somewhat inopportune.
Anyway, well done for making the effort, and remember people can react out of character when they are upset and misunderstandings between friends can occur, so a good win tomorrow will make us all feel better. 🙂
Good morning to you all.
What a beautiful sunny morning it is here in Norfolk. made all the better by seeing Wenger’s brilliant transfer strategy pay off so handsomely yesterday evening.
A derisory, Toon manager Pardew’s description, offer of £10 million for Cabaye so destabilised his team that they went out and lost 4 – 0 to The Oilers and by doing so dropped into the bottom three and thus moved Arsenal out of the relegation zone. Brilliant Arsene, absolutely brilliant.
Oh! and thanks to GiE for sharing his disillusionment with us, even that can’t spoil my mood on such a lovely morning.
Harry, why the **** should you indeed? Best thing to do is forget about football, take up a new pursuit, stamp collecting? Train-spotting?
Morning all
Gorgeous day here in South Hertfordshire 😉
GiE you are a treasure, supporting a football team should be fun and I’m looking forward to fun returning to the Emirates. Maybe we should start a campaign for a ‘Supporters Section’ – no groaning allowed, one groan and you’re out. All season ticket holders get the chance to sit there once (if they want) and don’t get invited back unless they sing the whole way through the game 🙂
I know how you feel GIE. I had that phase a while ago and I did take a slight break from blogging. It helped. But I hope you find the enjoyment enough in Arsenal, and in many of the comments on this site at least, to not stop.
Evonne
To go back to what we were talking about earlier, the referee Anthony Taylor hasn’t been removed from the referees roster. He will be 4th official for the game between Stoke and Crystal Palace on Saturday.
Other referees who will be 4th officials in matchweek 2 who refereed in matchweek1 are Oliver (who did the Norwich Everton game), Moss (Chelsea-Hull), and Friend (WBA-Southampton).
Right I have a garage door to paint, while painting I shall reflect on all the good things in life, such as it is now ten months since my heart attack, In that time I have had a weeks skiing in the French Alps, celebrated my seventieth birthday with a cruise around the Norwegian fjords, spent much time walking in the wonderful Norfolk countryside and best of all, I continue to enjoy the company of family and friends.
All this while suffering the vicissitudes encumbent on being a lifelong Arsenal supporter.
Good times come and good times go, but life, thankfully, goes on helped by a little perspective.
This is the saddest post I have read on this site. You are right GiE and I share your views entirely. However, it is not just Arsenal FC that is being destroyed by money. Ask the old school Chavs, they absolutely hate what has happened to their club; I have heard one of them saying that he would gladly give all the trophies of past few years back if he could have the old atmosphere and fun return.
Of course it is not the same game it was 20 years ago, nothing is the same. And sadly you have no choice, for you cannot change it. It will happen to Norwich FC too, it is only a matter of time -look at Brighton.
Thank you for the post.
Well this may or may not be a good time to reproduce a Neil Ashton article that throws some interesting light on Arsenal and the way they operate.
We have discussed this very thing ad nauseam but this is from a slightly different perspective.
— When Ivan Gazidis began the final negotiations to sign Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain from Southampton, Arsenal’s chief executive arrived with a battery of lawyers and accountants by his side.
They all went into a private meeting room with Saints officials, breaking off for hushed conversations in corridors whenever the selling club raised the stakes.
By then Oxlade-Chamberlain had, unknowingly, been the subject of a complicated economic formula established by the Harvard business boffins employed on a sizeable retainer by the club.
The bid Arsenal have submitted for Newcastle and France midfielder Yohan Cabaye appears, on the surface, to be a knee-jerk reaction to the injury crisis and the pressure put on them by fans to ‘SPEND SPEND SPEND’ during their defeat against Aston Villa.
In fact, he has been on the radar of Arsenal’s European scout Gilles Grimandi for some time. But the businessmen across the pond slowed down the recruitment process.
Gazidis’ belief in their academic acumen is total, although he has always been reluctant to explain how players as bad as Nicklas Bendtner, was told he could skip training to go back to Denmark three weeks ago, while he is earning £55,000 a week.
Arsene Wenger, who earns £7.6million a year at the Emirates, authorised Bendtner’s contract when the striker was still boasting about becoming the best player in the world.
Arsenal are proud of their due diligence, justifying frugal spending in the Kroenke years by the business brains brought in to put every potential recruit through a complicated financial model.
Wenger believes in the scientific principles established at the Emirates, although his team of scouts around the world still work to the formula he brought with him in 1996.
His scouting team, headed by Steve Rowley, are asked to identify players with three distinctive characteristics: pace, power and football Intelligence.
If only they had added a fourth — the mentality of champions — they really would be in business.
The dynamic training-ground environment, which was once the envy of the world when Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp and Robert Pires were pushing each other to reach new targets each day, has slowly been eroded.
There is tension in the air between Rowley and Bob Arber, Arsenal’s head of youth. At games, they don’t even speak to each other.
They should be in constant communication, preserving the future of the club by monitoring the progress of young players at Arsenal’s academy and bringing in the next generation. Instead, the young Gunners are on the end of some hidings, losing 7-0 to Conference club Luton and beaten by a scratch team of Colchester kids 5-1 before the start of the season.
This is no way to run a football club and most people know that there is room for improvement in every area at Arsenal.
Wenger has too much power — given the freedom of the football club because of his achievements at Highbury.
There he won three Barclays Premier League titles, four FA Cups and took Arsenal to within a whisker of beating Barcelona at the Stade de France in 2006.
He knows the inner workings of every area of the club, which is rare in the modern game.
Wenger’s detailed knowledge of every player’s contract even created an issue when Oxlade-Chamberlain was making substitute appearances for Arsenal last season.
Written into the England winger’s deal is a clause stating that Arsenal must pay Saints £10,000 every time Oxlade-Chamberlain appears for more than 20 minutes.
Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading).
Arsenal’s accounts department were stunned to receive an email from Southampton demanding payment for the appearances, with the south coast club justifying their argument based on stoppage time.
Eventually Arsenal agreed to pay for the appearances and the story worked its way around the offices at the Emirates with bafflement among staff.
They know Wenger calls the shots, but he is slow to move for targets.
Last season Rowley was a regular at Crystal Palace matches, following Wilfried Zaha around the country as Arsenal stepped up their interest.
Rowley would pop up at Leicester or Burnley, watching Zaha closely as Palace headed for the play-offs and promotion back to the Barclays Premier League.
When it came to the crunch, Wenger’s assistant manager Steve Bould picked up the phone to an old friend at Palace to ask for his assessment of the £15m forward.
By then it was too late. Zaha had been given permission to meet Sir Alex Ferguson and the deal was wrapped up within a day.
The England winger is another one to get away, but everyone at Arsenal knows that Wenger — a thoroughly charming and decent guy — has failed to keep pace with the modern game.
Managers need technical assistance and expertise, something the top clubs in the Premier League have finally accepted.
Jose Mourinho has returned to Stamford Bridge on the understanding that he must work closely with director of football Michael Emenalo. Manuel Pellegrini is working under the technical team — Ferran Soriano and Txiki Begiristain — as Manchester City plan for five trophies in five years.
Tottenham have recruited Franco Baldini from Roma to work with Andre Villas-Boas as Daniel Levy returns to the two-tiered European management structure he has always favoured.
Wenger has never been interested, preferring to rely on his own judgement and using Dick Law’s contacts book when they make a move on a player.
Law, who is based in Dallas, met Wenger when he was working in south America and they became close during David Dein’s time as vice-president.
He is popular with agents around the world, but they become frustrated when he pulls the plug on deals because Wenger must always have the final word.
As Arsenal fans are aware, nothing adds up at the Emirates any more.
You will either belief or disbelieve the words of a journalist, but taking it at face value it is worrying if even part of it is true.
Morning all, as we seem to be handing out weather reports today I can confirm it is sunny, clear with a slight breeze here in leafy Buckinghamshire.
Thanks for the post GiE as it sums up a lot of the disillusionment with the game many feel and I’d like to add another factor the disconnect with the players who we all now know are mercenaries earning obscene amounts of money.
Money that could be better spent helping 3rd world countries get basic sanitation and nutrition or a gazillion or more other worthwhile causes.
*sigh*
Morning/Evening all.
Chilli evening here in Sydney 🙂
Good news. Arsenal have beaten Birmingham 3-1.
Lets hear it for the ladieeeez.
GiE, thanks for the post. The fact that the word ‘business’ is emphasized so much in world football has taken all the joy out. When i was watching and playing in my youth, i never even knew what the word meant-in a football context-.
Business, money= innocence lost
Terry, you are a star! 🙂
In case GIE’s concerns are not being understood, he has not joined the moaners complaining about the club, far from it.
He is upset by the constant attacks on his beloved Arsenal, as he put it then “I wouldn’t have to deal with is defending the club from those from outside and in who think we are somehow entitled to expect more than we currently achieve.”
He then says, “I think I need a break from blogging, I need to enjoy football again. I’m not doing that on the blogs, I’ve had more rational conversations with Liverpool and Spurs fans over this weekend than I’ve had on the web.”
That is not an invitation to carry on stabbing at the club, quite the opposite.
Move over GIE, make room for me.
My parents house backed onto a recreation park that had 4 football pitches which hosted games on Sundays. I’d be over there every week watching games in the morning and the afternoon. I’d decide which team I wanted to support and then stay until the game was finished.
For some reason I can never be neutral, whichever game I watch, be it over the park or Premiership, I always want one team to win and am either joyous or disappointed at the result.
For that 90 minutes I would feel like I was a part of the team.
I used to feel like I was part of Arsenal unequivocally. One of the great pleasures of going on match day is walking towards the ground amongst a sea of red and white and being a part of a massive coming together of kindred spirits.
I now feel distanced from the people that run the club and distanced from the players. I don’t want to feel distanced from other supporters otherwise my connection with the club would be next to nothing.
I value the camaraderie of fellow supporters and the interaction we create and enjoy on the internet. It is a lifeline for supporters who cannot make it to games but also an important release valve for those who are having trouble accepting the way things are.
Morning all, thanks for the replies.
Peaches I like your idea of the no groan section, although has others have said in the past it is not always entirely possible to go 90 minutes without one so maybe one grumble a game is allowable.
On the way over to my client this morning I was thinking about what I would say to Ivan given the chance, and above all else it would be thoughts on how to improve the enjoyment of attending a game.
First on my list would be making both Clock End and North Bank unallocated seating, and in fact go one better. I really think allowing a group of dedicated Arsenal singers (lets face it this is likely to be the away fans) get nice and cosy with the Away supporters, this may bring policing/stewarding issues, but as the Clock End is the part of the ground with the fewest Season Tickets it is often filled with a mixture of irregulars and tourists who don’t really know how to respond to the away supporters jibes and noise.
Then I was thinking about how we shipped over the Vietnam Running Man for the Emirates Cup, and I was reminded of a clip Chas put up from an Asian bar with non stop We Love You Arsenal being sung whilst we were losing to ManUtd. And I was thinking sod it allocate a section or two and ship in a bunch of fans from Asia for a couple of games.
I know not everyone who attends the Em’s wants to sit on their hands, and i know it is the vocal minority who grumble and groan, but I think the rest of us need a bit more enthusiasm. I think Red Action is failing because it is tucked away in the corner of the ground, they should be front and centre of the North Bank, at least one or two blocks.
Fully respect your opinion but mine is different. I started going to highbury when I was ten. Every match I prayed we would win, so many angry faces and voices when we lost.”Why won´t our chairman spend? Why do we keep selling our best players and buying cheap replacements? Why don´t we invest more given we have one of the biggest and riches fan bases in the world? In the meantime a lot has happened and thanks to the Graham/Dean/Wenger stage we´ve become big. Instead of building on that to become even bigger we´re slowly undoing it all and the old questions are re emerging.
Football has changed, there are the regular winners and those who take part. We have the power to become a regular winner but won´t unlock that power. You say ´who cares?´´, I say most fans I´ve ever known, even if the don´t admit it.
I fully understand where you are coming at GIE 🙂
Red Arse, that article confirms my beliefs. Sack the lot of them as we are doomed 🙂
Brilliant GiE,
I took myself away from blogging for a while but foolishly decided twitter was a fun place to comment. That was until I realised I had turned into a moaning tosser. The company you keep when discussing football is very influential in determining your attitude towards it. Surround yourself with idiots who only care about how much a player costs and trophies and you will find yourself sucked in. I have come back to AA as I find the positivity from the likes of yourself, Dandan, RA, RL, Peaches and Rasp helps me see sense when it comes to watching Arsenal (and there isn’t much of that about at the moment).
Maybe a bit of exile is what you need!?
They should bring back the vuvuzela!!! That would drown out the moaning!
GiE – you should tell Gazidis about my idea for sound dampening in the away section and amplification in the North Bank, and even playing piped crowd noise like the Orcs do at their place.
I’m really looking forward to the day when Arsene’s autobiography comes out, only then might we discover the truth of what is/has gone on. Is it all down to Kroenke or is Arsene totally against spending?
I do believe this will be Arsene’s last season coz as he’s said on many occasions he won’t leave during his contract and as Arsenal are making a profit, Stan won’t sack him. I doubt Wenger will want a new contract.
I’d really expected more responses to this post. It must resonate with all supporters. Those who are angry can’t enjoy being angry all the time surely.
Anger is like envy, it eats into you. The beauty of football is that it is bittersweet – we’re having too much bitter at the moment 😦
Hi everybody.
A well written heartfelt post GIE and I share your sentiments.
Arsenal is more than a football club to me, it’s been my way of life for over 70 years.
In the 40’s I used to kick rag footballs against the gate on Avenell Road pretending to be one of the Arsenal players. When I discovered the “secret” of getting into the ground I never missed a game. When my family moved from N5 to N7 it was a most traumatic experience of my young life, but it simply meant a long walk to the ground – no big deal if you loved the Arsenal.
All these years later my feelings are as strong as they were 70 years ago, other than my family nothing in life has given me more pleasure than being an Arsenal supporter – even given the highs and lows – frankly over the years it’s been mostly lows.
People talk in terms of the club moving away from them, as though the club was once close to them? I feel closer to the club today than I have ever felt in my life because we are now inundated with details that back in the day we knew nothing about – and didn’t care to know. To me it was always the supporters that I felt close to whether they were family, friends, fellow supporters or even fans from other teams – we all had one thing in common – our love for football and our individual teams.
It may well be that this “inside” knowledge is causing the negative effect as we now seem to have a zillion critical analysts – who all know better then the incumbents at The Emirates.
I run hot and cold on the world of blogging, mostly cold, the redundant, repetitive, self serving comments from the “expert” supporters, commentators and reporters simply drives me crazy.
They are tiresome bores who have to have the last word and know it all.
I moved around the blogging scene for many years, disliking 95% of them, that is until Kelsey introduced me to AA, and after a shaky first few months I began to appreciate the quality of the blog and the work undertaken by it’s administrators.
To do this day, some 3 years later, I still find it to be among the top Arsenal sites, however in the recent past many of our bloggers have fallen victim to the onslaught of negativism and have joined the throngs of expectant malcontents.
Today I continue to blog but with deep reservations about my longevity.
Great stuff GIE and a subject I have been discussing recently.
I try to avoid defending my team from it’s own “fans”. I love the banter with the Chavs and Spurs losers – it is one of the central parts of Goonerdom. But to have AST sending out the anti-AW message was almost the last straw. They don’t represent me and yet purport to represent the fans.
Like you I want to talk football not business. I support the team on the pitch not the team off it. I don’t give a monkey’s cuss whether we have a Russian or a Yank as owner.
AW said we had a team strong enough to beat AV on Saturday and he is right. It had nothing to do with purchases and all to do with a sub-par performance and an awful referee. But now the club is a “laughing stock” and in “crisis” !!!
Sorry to change the topic completely, (and to bring up money) but Spurs are apparently close to 30m Willian. How much have they spent this transfer window? 60m? Add Willian and that’s 90m.
Now wouldn’t it be wonderful if they actually hadn’t signed the deal with Madrid for Bale with Madrid, and Madrid started reneging on paying as much as was first mooted?
But in seriousness, Spurs would have become a better team by selling Bale. (Although it seems they won’t save up from the stadium because of it) No worries. Arsenal will too. I just thought of it because I saw the Willian headline next to one saying Raul feels the Bale asking price is too high.
GIE thanks for today’s effort, I don’t know if you saw my post yesterday if not please
go back and have a read. Unfortunately I have to drive to the dentists in a few minutes so don’t have time to contribute right now, but will later,
A very honest reflection of the way a lot of football fans are feeling, Gooner In Exile, a well scribed essay for us all to consider.
Maybe Norwich fans still feel part of the club because they have a proper community, whereas Arsenal are one of many clubs sharing the capital, which in itself brings a power struggle that doesn’t exist in Norwich. Norwich are seen as a ‘family’ club, Delia Smith et al, and are provincial, Arsenal are global. The core base of their support are local, and in that, they have something Arsenal can never have.
The social demograhic has changed too. Whereas as we used to play football morning noon and night (unless the weather made it literally impossible), I can’t remember the last time I saw kids playing football either in the street or on a park, and I live near a park with a couple of full-size pitches marked out.
DanDan is usually the man to bring you snippets from the Times, but I thought may be you might want to read another article by Henry Winter on the subject of Arsene and the transfer window.
He is not all Arsenal fans’ favourite journalist, but when read in conjunction with the previous article, it all goes to round out how journalists from different ends of the footie spectrum see him.
— “It was the night of the 2010 World Cup final and Arsène Wenger was walking into Soccer City, Johannesburg, heading up the curving public ramp to the commentary positions.
His journey was delayed by spectators, some wanting autographs, others photographs, all wanting to pick his distinguished brains. How would Holland cope? How wonderful were Spain? Had he enjoyed South Africa?
Step after step, question after question, respectful fan after fan from a range of nations. Arsenal’s manager dealt politely with the requests.
Many of those in the public eye acquire the skill of keeping moving while signing, smiling and posing for pictures. Wenger stopped, happy to engage, listening to others’ views as well as generously giving his own.
By chance, I’d encountered Wenger arriving at the ground, and accompanied him for a while, seeking his reflections on the tournament. As did a legion of others. I remarked to Wenger about his admirable patience when the clock was surely counting down to a television programme and his expert pundit’s chair was still empty.
Wenger explained he had left his hotel early, partly because of his meticulous nature and also because he knew fans would want to talk.
This charming man did not want to appear rude and disappoint people.
So an element of cool-headed analysis should be introduced into the current frenzy over Wenger, a 3-1 defeat to Aston Villa and his travails in the transfer market. Not because he is courteous to punters but because the Frenchman is one of the most revered managers around through his work over three decades.
He is held in esteem not only in France, Japan and England, where his club coaching career has taken place, but around the world.
Wenger has earned respect. He has earned the right for discussions about his future to be conducted with intelligence not pitch-forks. He can still prepare a team well. He still represents a great club with decorum.
Clear-eyed, rather than blood-shot focus on the Wenger situation reveals that this is a manager who needs help in the transfer market.
It is sad but true: the man who built the Invincibles has become a ditherer when it comes to signings, has become far too hesitant at closing a deal. He prevaricates when scouts come to him with targets. He hates overspending even if it is the only solution. If Wenger looked to bring in a new tea-lady, he would be torn over one sugar or two.
Player representatives, whether agents or lawyers, confide frustration at being kept waiting for Wenger to make a decision when they have got other clubs not only on speed-dial but on hold, seeking to conclude negotiations.
Nobody should weep for agents but Arsenal fans should weep at the missed opportunities, the number of players who moved elsewhere while Wenger dawdled.
Rather than dithering themselves, Arsenal’s board need to address the situation, understanding first why Wenger has lost his touch in the player-recruitment business and secondly installing a proper structure for spending and seeing deals to fruition.
The reasons for Wenger’s stagnation are varied. He clearly misses the nudging presence of his friend David Dein. He takes his famous perfectionism in doing background checks on potential signings to extremes, an understandable stance but ignoring the reality that other managers move more swiftly.
He has a near-pathological unwillingness to pay a few million over the odds to guarantee the player. The contrast with Spurs this summer is notable; they have moved quicker, making attractive offers to get the deals done. Etienne Capoue? Wenger looked, lingered and pondered. Andre Villas-Boas and his technical director, Franco Baldini, acted.
If Wenger was more decisive he could have strengthened Arsenal at both ends and would not be travelling so nervously to Istanbul on Tuesday.
Why not make Queens Park Rangers an offer they cannot refuse for Julio Cesar? The Brazilian international is a vastly superior goalkeeper to the inexperienced Wojciech Szczesny. Wenger believes in the young Pole and does not want to inhibit his development. Yet Szczesny could learn from watching Cesar and mature into an able successor long-term.
Pursuing Gonzalo Higuain was always going to be an expensive process but Arsenal became distracted by Luis Suárez’s potential availability and ended up with neither. Their £40,000,001 offer for Suárez, which they smugly and naively thought would trigger a phantom release clause, was offensive, understandably enraging Liverpool, who became doubly determined to keep their No 7.
Wenger increasingly looks like an ingénue in the transfer jungle.
Take Yohan Cabaye. Why a bid this late in the window? It hints at a lack of planning, arguably a lack of real regard for the player. Do your business early. Manchester City did. And go in hard and strong. Arsenal have offered £10 million, which Newcastle United rightly deem “derisory”. Paris St-Germain are lurking. Wenger needed to act more assertively.
There is also the question of do Arsenal actually need a creative midfielder like Cabaye when they have Jack Wilshere? Chieck Tioté, particularly the early, hungry version, would bring more muscle to midfield. Cabaye is the type of player that Wenger would have spirited in unnoticed direct from France a few years ago, ambitious and reasonably priced.
Wenger’s scouting network has not necessarily diminished. Others have improved (like Newcastle’s under Graham Carr) while Wenger’s reactions have slowed at a post-Dein Arsenal.
The real flaw at the heart of Arsenal is Wenger’s working relationship with the chief executive, Ivan Gazidis. Wenger was involved in the appointment of Gazidis, effectively anointing the man who would be his boss. That inevitably skews the balance of power. Gazidis is nice but not particularly tough; a bit like the team.
Wenger needs someone above him who is not in awe of him, who does not, subconsciously or otherwise, feel indebted to him for the job. Officials at the Emirates Stadium must stop tip-toeing around Wenger.
He needs to be challenged for the team’s benefit and his own benefit.
It does not need to be done aggressively. That is not the Arsenal way. But it does require Gazidis or Stan Kroenke to re-think and re-shape their whole buying strategy, appointing a football man to work in tandem with Wenger. The club missed the chance to bring Patrick Vieira in, to bring Brian Marwood in, Arsenal people who are now helping Manchester City.
It is a familiar lament on these pages: Arsenal do not need to change their manager – yet – but they do need their manager to change his ways in the transfer market.”
A different slant from the earlier article, but both refer to the lag and lead time between identifying the player we want and deciding to go for it and get him, allowing others to steal a march.
Both also refer to Arsene as a great manager and a great man, but, like all of us, he sometimes needs help, even if as a perfectionist, he perhaps does not realize it.
Look when I said I may follow GIE into hibernation, I would rather do so on my terms and not be cast into moderation! 😀
Unzip me!
What a crying shame, from the sad lack of responses today it would appear that bloggers aren’t prepared to defend the positions outlined by positive supporters.
What has happened to the old supporter base, where have they gone,
I guess the “antis” must be off looking for even more destructive Red Top “news” to fuel to validate their discontent!
GIE; If your headline had read “Falling out of love with Arsenal” the page would be overrun with comments…………………….
Right the garage door has it’s new shiny coat of paint, lunch has been taken, now it’s time for the rest of the afternoon to be spent in quiet contemplation of the good things in life. The sunny garden awaits!
There’s definitely life outside of football. 😀
This is good news in comparison to what it might have been.
……………………………………………………………………….
Team news: Gibbs, Sagna, Monreal, the Ox
Arsène Wenger has revealed the latest team news ahead of Wednesday’s game at Fenerbahce:
on the team news…
The difference from Saturday is that Oxlade-Chamberlain is out for a while with a knee problem. Everybody else should make it. There’s a final decision [on Wednesday] but Sagna and Gibbs should be available.
on if Gibbs playing with a plaster on his head…
You get touched there once out of thousand. It’s just a cut. Nacho Monreal is back and will travel.
Copyright 2013 The Arsenal Football Club plc.
Wiltord, Henry………….run along now, there’s a good boy.
Hi GN5, 🙂
It is bad enough with some of the disgruntled fans going off piste, and a stinky troll turning up like a fart in a lift, but the following takes the biscuit.
Anger at the arrogance of the man has to be tempered because of his Arsenal past — but give me strength!
— “Tony Adams says Arsene Wenger will not be Arsenal manager for much longer – and he would love to take over at the Emirates.
Wenger is under pressure after the Gunners’ opening-day defeat by Aston Villa and a lack of activity in the transfer market and former Arsenal captain Adams thinks the Frenchman’s departure may come soon.
‘To keep hitting the top four and qualifying for the Champions League is great, and Arsene has done such a great job,’ Adams told Zapsportz.com.
“But there is going to come a day, and that won’t be far away, when Arsene leaves. One hundred per cent I’d like to be Arsenal manager.
‘Of course my heart says, “Yes, yes, yes”, but my head says,”Can I win with this current team?” My answer is no, I can’t and I am not sure anyone can.’
Adams’s managerial record would not seem to suggest he has what it takes to lead Arsenal to glory as he did on the pitch.
He has had unsuccessful spells in charge of Portsmouth, Wycombe and FC Gabala in Azerbaijan. He has not managed a side since November 2011.
Yup with that record he would be a shoe in to take over — as Basildon Junior Hockey and Marbles Club manager.
The observations by ashton and winter have been mooted about for a long time. They are hardly news.
What is curious is that they have drawn no criticism. Typically, if such comments were made by a poster the observation would be made that no one knows for sure, we can’t judge, you’re undermining the team…..
It seems that reality is finally settling in.
And i’d agree with Harry and evonne. We should get behind the players on the pitch. And the best way would be if wenger et al did as well. I suspect that when the fans see such support from management much of the booing and disgruntlement will abate.
Tony on the turps again Redders?
wally
Don’t confuse exhaustion with acceptance.
Looks like it, Prince. 🙂
Can you imagine what would happen if he ever did become manager! Yikes!!
A very heartfelt and sad Post GiE.
In a way it follows on from my Post yesterday, where I tried to make the point that Saturday’s loss was just that: a loss in a single game of football, not the End of Times or the Zombie Apocalypse.
But the media and the ever-increasing number of negative “fans” now dictate the agenda surrounding all things Arsenal and I, too, have given up reading articles in the press or on the Internet.
The saddest thing of all is that the fractiousness has even started creeping into this site, which has been an oasis of civility and common sense during troubled times. Yes, people get tetchy with each other once in a while, but not in a serious or lasting way.
For me a big part of the problem is, ironically, the internet itself and the world of blogging. There is just too much information, too many ill-informed opinions, too much vitriol. Every idiot can have his say and have his day. The trouble is, as our own retard troll* constantly reminds us, his day can be every day.
And even on a great site like this, the feeling of going round and round in circles over the same arguments can become very depressing. I really enjoyed my week in Nova Scotia recently and one of the reasons was that I did not engage in any Arsenal news or blogging.
The most enjoyable Arsenal-related aspect of this summer for me has been – by a country mile – the fantastic series that Gn5 put together with your help looking at the best Arsenal players through history. Informative, interesting, entertaining – it cemented even further my deep love of Arsenal.
Like you, GiE, I would watch and support Arsenal if we were in the Vauxhall Conference (does that still exist?). I love it when we play brilliantly and win trophies, but it’s not my reason for supporting.
I can fully understand your need to give blogging a rest. It’s a shame and if you do depart, this site will miss you greatly. Hopefully you will feel like returning before too long. No matter how you feel today I know that “Arsenal” runs through you the way “Blackpool” runs through a stick of rock.
I will continue to blog here. I will avoid other sites. I may even remove Newsnow from my “favourites”. I will not bother getting involved in discussions on here about the same old arguments. But I will still watch every game and support our lads and our club 100%, whether we win, lose or draw.
*Rasp
If if there is a way of identifying our troll, please let me know. He trespasses on our site every day. I will greatly enjoy the look on his face when I turn up on his front door step.
Hi Rocky, I’ll email you later.
I think your post and GiE’s today have brought a lot of folks back into focus on why we all support The Arsenal, and once you rediscover that, the other stuff becomes less important.
Off to the physio now, my back is killing me 😦
I know I shouldn’t question someone of your brilliance, wally, but what do you mean by your comment ‘observations mooted about’?
I suppose I should tell you what the OED defines ‘mooted’ as;
It is the past tense of moot, meaning to suggest for discussion.
Perhaps you should tell me what your definition is before we proceed.
Oh, and while you are about it, what actually do you mean by “The observations by ashton and winter have been mooted about for a long time. They are hardly news.”
Given both articles were written by professional journalists and published only this morning I am confused.
No, scrap that — you are totally confused and I don’t give a flying f**k for more of your nonsense. No offence! 🙂
wally,
As GIE pointed out in the headline post, what is the point of continually defending the club against those that seek to attack it both from outside and within?
The accepted “truth” is impossible to overturn. So why try?
That is the reality that has finally settled in.
Shard,
I’d say that when you see such “guesswork” (which was being mocked yesterday) now being put forward by one of the regulars it’s an acknowledgement.
wally
Dissemination doesn’t necessarily mean endorsement.
Wow.. In my attempts to be brief, I now sound like our resident troll.. Hey!! What you have isn’t contagious, is it??!!
Only with intimate contact, Shard.
RA,
I don’t think Winter and Ashton are from “different ends of the footie spectrum” at all.
RA,
I don’t think Winter and Ashton are from “different ends of the footie spec*rum” at all.
The asterisk is to get past the spam guard for that hideous word. 🙂
And now you’re at it chas. You seem to be well versed in the spread of this contagion. Not to pry, but what have you been up to while you’re distracting everyone with Arsenal videos?
I think it’s time to stop sulking, the Birmingham Villa result is done now – let’s make sure we get the collective spririts of the Gooner community up for the battle in Turkey tomorrow night.
Good news that we don’t have as many out as we feared and let’s not forget oyur opponents also lost their first league game of the season too, so they won’t be in great shape.
Can we beat them ? We should do.
If nothing the players should be doing their utmost not just for the manager but tfor the club that has put them in the privileged position they are in.
They owe it to Wenger, the club and most importantly of all to us, the fans who ARE the club.
Hi Rock, 🙂
I have a constant dichotomy with myself regarding staying with blogging, including AA, or buggering off altogether.
The repetitive nature of the crap that gets recycled is as you say very wearing.
But sometimes the inability of some bloggers to argue their case dispassionately, and in a lucid way makes me despair both with the individuals concerned, and with myself for even bothering to try and engage with them. The worst of it is that they cannot help it and I should know better.
I have the original Word Press gravatar of our guitar strumming troll before he went all coy, and perhaps I will join you in popping around to have a cup of tea with him.
I am, as you know, 6′ 5″ and 19 stone, whereas you are a shrimp at 6′ 2″ and 15 stone but I am sure he would pleased to see us, what do you think?
If you read that stuff every day, there will come a point where it becomes lodged in your brain as fact.
Aahhh chary.. I knew 2014-15 would soon seem too far away 🙂
Shard,
I simply surmised that Sniffer must have some variant of brain-rotting syphilis, that’s all.
Maybe reading the likes of those two above induces a rot of the brain. Actually scratch that. Repeated exposure to it does cause brain rot. And it spreads like a zombie apocalypse, with sheer bloody mindedness.
Rasp – tell Rocky I am the troll and give him my address. I’d love him turning up on my doorstep 🙂
3 down 2 more to do. These are the numbers of my ‘mates’ the Underminers. Charlie, George and John I dealt with already, so only have John2 and Ken to face. Little tip for you guys – they usually shut up when I remind them who lost the first game of last season.
WATA – I don’t know where you live, but things are better in N14 for the time being, ie lots of children and youngsters playing footy everywhere. There are a few pitches in Trent Park sports centre – they are always full; a few more in Oakleigh Park – someone is always kicking a ball there. I take my dogs there on Sunday to watch the Sunday league games, some very good. A team of deaf boys plays regularly – I can see a couple of them being pros one day. AND what’s even better is that many of those kids wear the beautiful red and white shirt. So, not all is bad 🙂
Rocky;
Thank you for your acknowledgement of the summer series.
I purposely made the profiles highlight the players and the managers career’s with their time at Arsenal being the main focus.
The only time I let finances creep into the posts was when it played an important part in their careers. A couple of examples being Herbert Chapman’s “method” of negotiating or when George Eastham went on strike over players wages.
You see I firmly believe that the monetary side of football is none of our bloody business and that as fans we should concentrate on our job of supporting the team both on and off of the field – especially at the Emirates – our away fans are a wonderful example of how to support the team.
Three cheers to them and three boo`s and hisses to the home crowd!!
chas – you are brilliant, I had completely forgotten about that word 😉
…… and I apologise to all for not yet putting the posts from the ‘Greatest Arsenal Team Ever’ up in their own page. I will do it, I promise ….. 😳
evonne,
you’ve just hit upon the answer, only sign players who are deaf and can’t hear the booing. 🙂
I’m nothing of the sort, peaches.
I looked for the front bottom word and saw that it began with an ‘S’ this time. 🙂
GN5
I wouldn’t know much about it as I am too young, and live too far away, to have experienced it. But over the years while blogging, whenever I’ve brought up the point about the home crowd (apart from being called a meddling foreigner busybody) I have been told that the moaners at a game have always been there. Am I to surmise from your repeated comments about our home ‘support’ that what I was told is false, or is it something like the context of the moaning that you feel has changed?
WATA,
Football is one of the fastest growing sports in Canada, where I live in London the pitches are always fully utilized by both girls and boys teams.
I spend many a happy hour watching games, if I can get a parking spot, and chatting with the proud parents.
Redders
So that’s 34 stone of us turning up then 😀
That should do the trick.
evonne
Don’t be a tease 🙂
Where’s Micky?
Micky is on holiday in Italy looking for you.
Or was it BR he was looking for?
Thanx, Chas, 🙂
That naughty word probably explains why I was dumped into that dark and mystifying place called ‘moderation’.
On reflection I suppose both papers are some what right of Genghis Khan, altho’ I was referring to their personal backgrounds, one a southerner and the other from Scotland. (?) maybe I am wrong about that too. 🙂
RA,
What do you mean, “too”?
I think they both have to sell papers to justify their existence. Arsenal are currently even bigger news than usual. Quo vadis. 🙂
Thanx, Evonne — “Chas darling, please, please give Rocky my address, he is so gorgeous — but don’t tell the ugly big one!!
Hah! See if I care!!
Winter has had an anti-Arsenal manager agenda for several years now as those links I posted a couple of weeks ago illustrated.
Where’s Wally?
Ah… maybe he thought ‘nova scotia’ was a type of pasta!
RA,
They mean exactly what it says. What ashton and winter are saying is not anything special. It’s seems that it’s news to you because it’s put forward by an authority. People have put forward the claim, guesswork by your definition, for quite some time that wenger has been ceded too much control of football operations, that he is unwilling to spend, and that as a result the club has drifted downward.
Have you not noticed that?
don’t worry about offending me. I get your passion for the club and how its listlessness wears you out. It wears us all out. But unless it’s corrected it will continue to fester and leave us all a mess.
haha, nova scotia, so it was BR he was hoping to surprise.
It is, isn’t it, Rocky? 🙂
I can tell you now FFP will not be what you think it is. First off, for the first three years clubs are allowed to make a £40m loss. And player contracts are amortised over x amount of years – so if you buy a player for 50 million on a 5-year contract, only one-fifth of the deal would show as a budgetary representation for that season. It’s more complex than that, but not as cut and dried as a club spending x amount and ending up x amount in debt.Besides that, there’s no way there will be serious punishments for clubs who overrun their budgets, unless UEFA want to find themselves in the courtroom explaining the legal reasoning for denying a club £30m worth of Champions League revenue. UEFA will bottle it like they bottle everything
Chas i’m in Toronto
I came to Arsenal back in the 80’s when i lived in N5 for few months. First game i ever saw was 21 Dec 81 (or was it ’80?) Arsenal v manure. Arsenal won 2-1. For three pounds i stood in the terraces and fell in love with the game and Arsenal became my team. Saw every home game the rest of the season. And to watch this needlessly happen to my team kills me. My boy wonders why i get so wound up about it. You either get it or you don’t. But he’s a manure fan so…..
So put me down as a hugh wizzy fan. His dear wenger letter on you tube is spot on, less the crying. But its the same type of passion.
Racey it depends on your amortization schedule. I’d argue that given the life span of the asset you’d get to use an accelerated form of depreciation.
Shard,
As you know I no longer live in England and can only gain my opinion from watching on TV.
I`ve been critical of the home crowd for many years now and whenever I bring it up here on AA I`m told things like –
Our section is always singing.
It`s due to the change in seating allocation.
The Emirates have poor acoustics.
The TV audio coverage gives the wrong impression.
There are many corporate attendees who are their to booze.
I could go on but in essence it`s nothing to do with the supporters it`s everything else that`s wrong – no ownership and therefore no solution from those who could and should make a real difference.
When I attended games on a regular basis the barracking was typically muted and booing the team was something that rarely occurred – but then again when you are in the ground you can really only hear your own section.
I just think it`s part and parcel of the overall decline in the manner in which clubs are supported.
I would also refute that Norwich get great support because they are the only local team – when I lived in Highbury Arsenal were the only team in London as far as us locals were concerned.
By the way I have no intention of not blogging on AA, I simply ignore the posts that I know will infuriate me.
GIE – I hope that a little away time will be all you need to start blogging again on a regular basis.
Well said, wally, and sorry if I was too sarcastic — you did not deserve that. 😦
I was not intending to hold up either Ashton or Winter as paragons of virtue. I do not even really know them apart from occasional reports I read on the blogs, but the process both were alluding to interested me, as I did not know that Arsenal used outside American sources for advice, or that it seems to be commonly accepted in the journalistic world that the speed of the process, or lack of it, does not work from their observations of it.
As a New Yorker, I must find a way of meeting you, GN5 and Rocky in a suitably Arsenal equipped pub somewhere in Toronto to down a pint or two with you, and yack about the Gunners. 🙂
Thank you GN5.
I can attest to the TV audio coverage being misleading. I’ve only been to the stadium a handful of times, but I have seen the stadium rocking in that time. And yet it came across as much less so on TV.
Thank Dennis we can still have a larf 🙂
racey,
In fairness, your 4:53 is a decent comment and more like that will make you welcome on here. The one liners – not so much.
Have you read that Monaco may be forced to sell some of their new acquisitions, because of FFP considerations, and the French FA getting tough on them and their ‘no tax’ policy, which must stop or they will be thrown out of the French Leagues?
See, a proper comment brings a proper response!
RA,
Scallywags, most saturday mornings.
Careful it’s a liverpool bar with lots of manure. And suddenly tots fans are showing up.
Oh, dear I spoke too soon! 😦
wally,
I think GN5 has been to Scallywags, and I think I might have been there too on a business trip (long time ago and a bit of a blur 🙂 — mind you, I hope Chas is not around or he will tell me I got the bit about GN5 wrong! 🙂
Shard @ 4.21 – I just needed to have a good whinge; now full speed ahead.
Micky found me. We spent some time talking Arsenal and then some more time talking Arsenal. Then we talked AA and then some more about Arsenal. His wife was enthralled by the conversation 😀
Here you go, wally, 1980 it was.
http://www.11v11.com/matches/arsenal-v-manchester-united-20-december-1980-85566/
GIE won’t stop blogging.
He might stop banging his head against a brick wall though.
Sounds fun, BR.
Did Mrs BR enjoy it too?
Is Scallywags the Canadian equivalent of Hooters?
I just bought tickets for Sunderland away.
Must be stark staring bonkers.
chas. Mrs Raddy had to go back to DK and was distraught at not having the opportunity to share in hours hours of Goonertalk. I am making up for it now ….
Who payed Raddy 🙂
RA,
Yes I have been to Scallywags, but not for a few years, good atmosphere, nice roof garden, average pub food.
Chas,
No it`s not like Hooters but there are many Hooters pubs.
Chas
Not bonkers going to an away game. If I was back in London now I think I’d be tempted to give up my season ticket and go to away games instead, where at least the support is generally good.
Wally
I’m in Toronto too and have been to Scally’s many times.
Chas
There is a Hooters in Toronto (or so I’ve been told, ahem). There’s a new North American bar franchise rivalling Hooters these days, called Twin Peaks (not a joke).
kelsey. Not me… I am from North London 😀
RL That is very funny. Good to see Canadians have a sense of humour
Rocky,
I never heard of Twin Peaks but then again it`s hard to keep abreast of all the new pubs…………..
Raddy 🙂 🙂
Chas, what have you done with …. Chas?
You know, the guy who was thinking of giving up his season ticket earlier today.
I don’t know anything about Scallywags really, and a good boy like me would never go to a Hooters! 🙂
I didn’t realise Hooters was all over.
I just youtubed it, watched a Hooters girl hula-hooping while pouring a pint of beer and then watched this (first 50 seconds only).
Gn5
I hope they don’t go bust 🙂
RA,
It was the whole Emirates experience and aftermath which got to me.
I’ve stood next to dickheads away too, but at least it isn’t the same dickheads and sometimes I even get lucky and stand next to some fans who don’t moan throughout.
Rocky,
I get the point(s)
Just nipping out…
What do toys and boobs have in common?
They were both originally made for kids, but dad ends up playing with them!
Some people think it’s not about the mountains……
Rocky is at 1.54.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybGWziRwzQs
GIE
I owe you a proper reply and in the modern era,win or lose the majority of the media have been anti Arsenal,but that can infuriate some but when I signed up to support Arsenal everything you say was true.
The world has changed and football in the last ten years dramatically and it just can’t be sustained.
I tried twice to post my thoughts on the game last Saturday and even asked you with your better knowledge than myself about the performance of certain players,in particularly our keeper.
We all have different opinions as how we saw a game and that makes for good debate.
I myself have been drawn into the finances and you know my feelings about the club at this time and many are waiting for the day Wenger publishes his autobiography, yet my feeling is that for all his good and bad points he is an honorable man and would never write anything that would stick the knife into anyone. I maybe wrong,but I doubt it.
I had the same thought chas 🙂 when I read GN5’s comment
Evening All
Evening all: Just spent three quarters of an hour in the Dentist Chair and more to come next week and yet I find that less irksome than the drivel that so many Arsenal/Arsene detractors delight in spewing out.
Drivel like Tony Adams suggesting that he could possibly be the cure for the clubs perceived ills, no doubt his drinking, drugging, gambling expertise would resonate with club, its personnel and spectators alike, as they raise him aloft to carry him to the manager’s chair.
Sure he was a fine player, but the very fact that he allows himself to be quoted in so ridiculous a light only underlines the nonsensical quality of the suggestion he puts forward.
This I am afraid is the kind of Knee jerk reaction that epitomises the thinking of so many that patrol the blog world, bereft of any ideas of substance, that would stand up to the kind of intelligent argument that the likes of GIE are capable of asserting or the in depth questioning that is the natural reaction to a wordsmith like Redders, or the practical knowledge of a Kelsey. These products of the digital world, spend their time on the blogs, have news now as their favourite and seize any article listed there and unaware and uncaring whether it is purely for the purpose of attracting hits or not, accept it as gospel, swallow the spurious thing whole and gleefully spread it far and wide delighting in their cleverness.
It is this kind of ineptitude that is reducing the validity of the internet and causing thinking people, not only in football but across the spectrum to abandon forums and blogs in sorrow at the passing of a direct line of communication that was until recently a source of pleasure to many.
As a side issue the vehemence of much of the vitriolic language and lack of thought when posting is one of the more questionable and quantifiable factors that is causing governments worldwide to take a distasteful but active look into all areas of the cyber world.
Yes the world of football as many of the older AAers have said has changed, pre digital when the likes of GN5, Norfolk, Raddy and myself first started watching the Arsenal the majority of the crowd possessed neither a car or a phone at home and any football conversation was made on the train/bus/pub or works canteen if your firm was big enough to have one. The morning papers, politics aside were the trusted vehicle for getting your footy news and more were sold for that purpose than any other, we had no page three either of course. I even made extra money walking the streets loaded down with papers and calling Star/News/Standard classified. People would pour from their houses eager to see the written word what they had just heard on sports report on the Radio.
All this engendered a love in your club, probably local as even the workforce in those far off days were pretty static and families stayed together. It was only when our generation reached our late teens, early twenties that immigration and relocation of plants and factories caused us to travel at home and abroad and our children often adopted the club of their schoolmates in whatever part of the country they had been moved to.
This then is the background to us senior supporters and our “LOVE” of the club above all. Of course we want to win, but more than anything we want to enjoy the game and respect the chat and banter with people from all walks of life, who have like feelings for their club whether that be Arsenal or not. Without the Crass Spend Spend Spend that has become the staple diet of so many bloggers.
Buy what we can yes, trust our management yes. Sing and support our team, cut out the booing and the constant carping and accept that we may not be top of the heap but there are millions of supporters who would feel in footy heaven if their club, could have and hold a record to equal that of the mighty Arsenal.
I understand, Chas, you are a really good guy, and would never let Arsenal down.
Altho’ I have made the decision to appear on AA today just to stand four square with the club, the manager, the non-moaning AAers and the good guys in the blog-world too, my heart has not really been in it, to be honest.
The enjoyment I get from chatting to most AAers, is offset by the disappointment of reading the comments made by some other bloggers on every site I visit.
I was not joking when I said move over GIE.
Absolutely top notch, DanDan. 🙂
That really should have been a headline post Dandan, superb read.
A well written from the heart post from GIE, plus some great follow on remarks. I had remarked earlier that in my opinion our entire approach to transfer dealings is a shambles and has gotten even worse since David Dein departed. Why oh why do Arsenal make it so difficult for themselves. The bid for Cabaye was a total embarrassment! If they want a player then at least make a bid that will make the selling club think immediately about the offer. No one seems to take us seriously and on paper it seems all that we do is dither. I am an ardent believer in Wenger but his actions are making it more and more difficult to believe in him and trust him to do the right thing. His interviews are more and more defensive and when he makes such comments as tell me who are the players that I could sign to improve the squad only open him up to more and more criticism. Transfers are like any other business transaction, if you want something you will only get it if you pay the going/asking price.
Good news – Ox’s injury not too serious after all. He should be back within 6 weeks (which means after Xmas).
What is the deal with Southampton we have iro Ox? We pay them £10k every time he plays for 20mins including extra time? That sounds ridiculous
JanMan
As if negotiations have no place in business. I am not ’embarrassed’ by the Cabaye bid. Why are you?
evonne
Clearly you’ve never played one of those managerial computer games. Such add ons are quite common in transfer negotiations 🙂
Has I wonder anyone considered that the Cabaye bid was made with the knowledge of Newcastle’s record that it would be leaked and cause a furore, thereby allowing Arsenal to bid elsewhere and keep that bid under the Radar for a while, to avoid our wealthy opposition forcing up the price?
Shard, 10 mil…enough said. I never said negotiations are not part of business. I Said if you want something you have to be prepared to pay for it. We should at least start with a serious bid and stop making ourselves a laughing stock.
Racey: More Distinguished, you jest of course?
Evening all…..I think Chas has it spot on, time to stop wall banging.
I proved a point to myself this morning, I asked a question about Ox and got three or four replies focussing just on his injury and how it occurred.
We want to talk about football….that has to be the starting point.
Now purveying the Arsenal ticket website earlier and saw Sunderland away is on General Sale…..I’m thinking AA Road Trip!!
Wish I could join you and Chas, GiE 😦
Rocky,
That makes two of us – I’m really jealous – but at least I get to watch it at home.
JanMan
If you feel we are a laughing stock that is down to you. No one can make you feel small unless you let them. I think a 10m bid for Cabaye (if that is indeed the figure) is a very reasonable starting point.
Shard. So you are happy with our transfer policy, ongoing dealings and you see no wrong in how we are conducting current business. I’ll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that! Obviously we have two totally different opinions and it is not worth further discussion.
Good for AW he’s trying to get the conversation back where it belongs – discussing football……..
…………………………………………………………………………….
Wenger – Fenerbahce game is our focus
Arsène Wenger has reiterated his desire to strengthen his squad – but says his main focus is on beating Fenerbahce on Wednesday night.
The Gunners are in Turkey ahead of the first leg of their Champions League play-off tie at Sukru Saracoglu Stadium.
What is real football is the quality of the game and for me that is always the most important thing
Wenger is keen to make signings before the transfer window closes on September 2, but stressed his faith in the players he already has at his disposal.
“As always, we do what we think is right,” the manager said. “When we think we have the right players, we do it.
“We were for years restricted and we competed with exceptional quality. This year we did not lose any players – we just lost two players with injury – but we will try to strengthen the squad and make the right decisions until the end.
“I repeat many, many times that the transfer window should be over before the season starts because it is a little bit destabilising once the season has started – to be there talking about what is not really important in football.
“What is important in football is to go out [on Wednesday] night and see a good game. All that other stuff is good for the newspapers, but it is not real football. What is real football is the quality of the game and for me that is always the most important thing.”
Copyright 2013 The Arsenal Football Club
JanMan
That’s not what I said but yeah, let’s just leave it at that.
Tomorrow we have a BR pre-match report and, later, a game.
The following day we’ll have a match report.
My intention is to talk only about on-pitch matters for both days – the team selection, the tactics, the opposition, the way the game played out, the ref etc.
In the spirit of GiE’s Post today, perhaps other AA-ers might feel like joining me in restricting our discourse to matters match-related (plus interesting diversions to discuss esoteric matters like North American sports bars with scantily clad serving wenches).
(Obviously this is a free and open blog so anyone who thinks that’s a stupid idea is, of course, at complete liberty to whine on about transfers, the Board, the manager ad nauseam if they wish to. I just won’t be engaging with such comments).
Shard, I do not want any hard feelings. I am just totally frustrated with our business/transfer dealings at the moment. Cheers.
JanMan
No problem. I wasn’t angry or anything. Look forward to discussions with you in the future when we both feel more up to it 🙂
Fine idea Rocky but I’m sure somebody will throw a wench into your plans?
I’m keeping an eye on AC Milan -PSV and I think it was Wijnaldum who just made me turn to the screen with interest. Either the AC milan left sided defenders are incredibly slow, or Wijnaldum is super quick.
My plans are un-wrenchable Gn5, because I will be sailing over all wrenches with nary a care in the world 🙂
Got to feel a little sorry for Ian Holloway, 2 FA Charges, one for language around match officials changing room post match and one for questioning integrity in post match interview.
Apparently he asked someone to explain what a free kick was given he felt one of his players was fouled in the build up to the penalty and also not understanding how the player was supposed to challenge for the ball without his hand being where it was.
I must say I have some sympathy with the “unnatural position” interpretation, it seems now the only way to protect yourself is to hold your hands behind your back, which i’d say was a pretty unnnatural position when trying to balance or move around the football pitch.
Can someone throw me a wench?
Ironic that when GiE says he’s losing interest in football, I’m sat watching an absolutely brilliant game between PSV and Milan!
PSV youngsters playing some great stuff, especially Wijnaldum and Maher, who looks a gem. Apart from a Balotelli dive its been a fantastic watch.
Agreed GIE. I refused to watch any football in the league after that match, but I did catch the penalty given against them. It seemed harsh, but according to the current interpretation, also fair.
By the way, speaking of tomorrow’s game, so does anybody know whether Koscielny and Cazorla are suspended as originally thought?
Shard. The PSV game is a cracker. Both teams playing attacking football
GiE,
I will never understand charges for ‘language around the referees room’ when on numerous occasions already this season there have been close ups of players on tv blatantly telling refs to f-off etc
Shard I found this on Arsenal news – it mat not be definitive but it makes sense to me.
………………………………………………………………………………….
According to Daily Mail, Arsenal’s squad has been dealt a further blow with Santi Cazorla and Laurent Koscielny set to serve a suspension in this week’s Champions League Qualification match against Fenerbahce.
The duo picked up a yellow card each in Arsenal’s 2-0 win over Bayern Munich, totaling 3 yellow cards apiece in last years tournament which usually constitutes a suspension for the next match. As the Gunners were knocked out of the competition, the English rumour-mill newspaper seem to think the ban will carry over into the new competition.
Thanks to the fans on allArsenal.com that have brought the news to our attention and I’ve done some digging and as far as I’m aware yellow card suspensions become void at the end of the current competition. Anyone have any more news on this? I’m hoping it is just a blunder on the Mail’s part.
Some bans carry over into the new season like a red card suspension or behavioral bans that have been handed out after matches, but from what I believe this is no reason to fret.
Raddy,
It you want a wench it sounds like you will have to wrench one away from Rocky….
I have no idea Shard, I think Chas posted something about them being available….well he posted the laws and it seemed to intimate that they were. I think there is something on Arseblog about it
Santi and Koz are both in the squad training pictures. Another weird thing noticed, the players are wearing CL bibs rather than traditional Nike/AFC training bibs, so that would suggest that UEFA force the players to wear certain training kit in the build up to games.
GIE I never noticed Walcott in the training pictures?
GN5
I think it was chas who also put up some rules from the Uefa website, and although it was all couched in legalese, I think it said the same thing about it. So hopefully, they are available. Which makes our defensive situation a lot easier than I had feared. And Cazorla is a major boost too.
And I was so livid about the referee after the Villa match, that I didn’t say it then, but I’d like to stress now how relieved I am that Sagna walked away from that fall. That could have proved really really bad. I love Bacary Sagna’s will and determination. I was there in the ground when he scored the ‘eff this’ header against Spurs in the first of the 5-2. I’ll never forget that. I’m glad he’s ok, and I hope we can get an extension to his deal sorted.
Here you go, Shard.
https://arsenalarsenal.wordpress.com/2013/08/19/we-still-have-111-points-to-play-for/#comment-263693
GIE
Must be a sponsorship thing.
chas
You make it so easy to understand don’t you? 🙂
Soz
Who scored for Milan Raddy? Not him I hope
I see Celtic lost 2-0 to the Kazhakstani village camel-shaggers.
If I just lifted text from a UEFA document no-one would believe it straight off without being able to see it in context.
(well that’s what I’m like anyway 🙂 )
el Shaarawy
poor goalie 😦
GN5,
Walcott is in the training video.
I believe you can sign up for free with this digital membership thingy.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/49137/video-first-team-squad-in-training
The goalie almost would have been better trying to get a boot on it.
oh dear, that was a sitter, don’t you think Chas?
I don’t normally like men with plucked eyebrows, but that kid el Shaarawy is going fantastic
I think he’s going fantastic too.
GN5 if i was being cheeky i would ask why you expect to see Walcott in the training pictures? Surely he would be hiding as per usual 😀
he is fantastic. not sure where the ‘going’ appeared from 🙂
I’ve just noticed the goalline extra officials on the same side of the pitch as the lino in that half. I never could understand that.
Ant said it was something to do with the ref running a diagonal between the unoccupied corners. Anyone know?
because of R$P I want PSV to lose
Que?
evonne
The ‘going’ is a result of his racer stripes fooling people into thinking he’s always on the move..so instead of saying he’s fantastic, you have to say he’s going fantastic.
Sorry to disillusion you but R$P was from Feyenoord. PSV’s rivals. Howver, Van Nistelrooy was from PSV so you can still hate them.
chas
I believe the changed that a couple of years ago. In their first year the refs behind the goals used to be on the other side, so that they covered the sides that the referee cover with his ‘diagnol’. But apparently the referees then felt that this took away their authority because they felt unsure in giving a call seen by them differently than what the assistant saw from closer. Or some such weird logic
So Uefa decided that they would put them on the same side as the lino, and leaving the other side of the pitch entirely to the referee. Makes a lot of sense to someone I’m sure.
but they are Dutch, that’s enought for me to want them to lose.
No, Shard, el Shaarawy (great name) is so young, yet plays like an experienced pro. I’d love a player like him at the Ems…….
evonne
Why the no? When did I say anything against him? And apparently wenger agrees with you in that regard. He praised him while commentating on TV as someone who completely suits his vision of how football should be played.
“Sorry to disillusion you but R$P was from Feyenoord. PSV’s rivals. Howver, Van Nistelrooy was from PSV so you can still hate them.”
That’s cracking football supporting logic 🙂
Chas I wondered the same thing last season. You’d think (especially given UEFA are not implementing GL technology, that they’d give the officials the best chance of getting one crucial decision right. The way they are now if lino’s vision is obscured the 5th official can’t help, whereas opposite sides give them more chance of getting it right.
You’d also think it would be wide for key decisions in the area, but UEFA and wisdom seldom go hand in hand look at the appeals debacle they have for themselves into with these suspended teams.
I know everyone should have right of appeal and UEFA know this, so they could’ve done something like:
Dear Mr Fenerbache,
We find you in breach of rules X, you are sentenced to one seasons exclusion from UEFA competition 2013-14.
If you decide to appeal the decision and lose your sentence will start in 2014 and be doubled so you will miss 2014-2016 European competitions.
Regards
Mr UEFA
Right ban all players from Twitter!!!!
Ox Tweets that he should be back in 3 months….. Hmm that’s longer than 6 weeks!
He clearly doesn’t understand how not to inflate transfer prices or maybe he is smart enough to know and doesn’t want any additions as he wants his place back when he returns. 👿
Its a bit different for me in Canada but I get the point. To be honest I have little time for the new fans who are anti AW because they haven’t lived through tough times like we have. I can remember when we could only wish to be as good as the spuds. I honestly have more respect for the fans of the Orient, Millwall, Rochdale than I have for 50% of the so called Arsenal fans. These supporters go every year knowing the best they can hope for is perhaps a good cup run.
I tremble to think what would happen to our “loyal” fans if Arsenal were treated like Rangers. Yet even while they were in Division 3 they had the HIGHEST average attendance of any team in Scotland and something like the 4th or 5th highest in Britain.
Now that’s fans as we as Gooners could do with following the new catch phrase for Rangers fans..
We don’t do walking away!!!!
Thanks a lot, GiE, for a very thoughful, sad and thought-provoking post. And thanks everyone for contributing. I have been too pushed for time to contribute myself, but it is very heartening to read teh thoughts of so many kindred souls!
I am assured that die-hard Arsenal fans are alive and well! I am proud Arsenal does things its own way, and may this independence of thought and action survive long!!!
And I hope some signings are made, and hopefully worthwhile additions to the “team”. Yes, football is played by a team, not an individual, particularly the brand of football that Arsenal plays. And that we, or many of us, are so proud to watch. Never mind the ocassional blip!!!!
Thanks a lot for that post GIE, exactly what I’m saying yesterday.
‘And the feeling around the club after the first game is absolutely shocking. I’m absolutely concern about the player on the pitch more than the player the fans want to buy. If you ever played in a football game where your teammates were kick around and there was clearly a bias to another team from the referee you will know the feeling. To suppress you anger from exploding and to restrain yourself from knocking out the referee is absolute difficult. I know they are professional, but they are human after all.
I hope the team can get through this and still fighting for everything even though everyone including their own fans don’t believe they can. I do.’
Morning all.
Poor old dandan as he now has less teeth than Arsenal can muster first team players 🙂
I agree with Rocky and others,no more finance talk let’s concentrate what’s going on the pitch starting today.
The only thing I would like to mention that though there is no actual proof I believe Wenger is frustrated with a lack of signings at this moment of time and there appears not to be the best of relationships between him and Gazidis and Laws. This is just an observation.
Many in the media are stating we need a David Dein type figure as a sporting director or whatever title you chose, to take some of the pressure off Wenger which to me emphasises my point about the two named above.
Morning All,
kelsey. You say “I agree with Rocky and others,no more finance talk let’s concentrate what’s going on the pitch starting today. ” and then follow with an assumption, and that is all it is, about off-field matters 😀
Micky is away for another week and Chas must be in the gym.
Yes I suppose you are right Raddy but it was aimed at personal not finance,no monetary figures were mentioned 🙂
Just checked the weather. It will be a warm night in Turkey
My impression is that the team who are attempting to bring new players to the club are in complete harmony……..just an observation.
That comment is provocative, argumentative and down right doom mongering.
Lets all run round screaming: The sky is falling in, the sky is falling in.
The club have only made clear that they have put in a bid for one player — and that is Suarez. No other player has been mentioned by any member of the board or management.
You may have noticed that Liverpool are trying to do everything not to sell him.
Adults don’t fall out over this they simply move on try and find another target.
it seldom snows over there Raddy 🙂
Did you hear Wenger’s latest? ‘Not enough players – no good. Too many players – no good, no competition. We will get the balance right before the transfer windows closes, don’t worry about that’.
And that’s all I need to know!!
Good so I hope the lads don’t go cold turkey.
I have a hunch that Fabianski might be in goal,though I wouldn’t bet on it.
LB
are you taking the piss. maybe instead of being sarcastic do some research yourself .You love stirring things up and then go and hide behind the sofa. 🙂
Doom mongering !!!! Not me 🙂
Morning all.
RAs two posts from Ashton and Winter actually could’ve moved the debate on, as both seemed to suggest that the Football Club is applying Moneyball methodology to transfer acquisitions. I suggest that is the Anerican influence, Comolli discussed it some time ago when he had just left Liverpool who were also using it. But then they started spending £25m on Henderson and £20m on Downing so we can assume it was dropped when Dalglish took the reins.
But we don’t know and I don’t know enough about moneyball to know whether its good or not. I’d suggest in football where Madrid are bidding £100m for Bale it is not going to work.
Anyway Fenerbache today….COYRRG!
Morning all.
GiE, can you please explain the moneyball methadology or what you know of it? Sorry, im only half smart today and wouldnt have a clue.
“Tottenham shattered their club transfer record once again as they splashed out £60m on Willian and Erik Lamela – paving the way for Gareth Bale to confirm his £104m move to Real Madrid by the end of the week, reports the Daily Express.
Brazilian Willian completed a £30m move from Anzhi Makhachkala , while Argentine winger Lamela is today expected to seal a £29.9m transfer from AS Roma.
Real’s £18m defender Fabio Coentrao is close to agreeing a switch and, with Bale valued at £86m, the package has reached the £104m fee Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy has placed on the Welshman”
It would be funny if Real don’t buy Bale after all 🙂
Not funny for long though, with such a squad Spurs could win the league, perish the thought
Morning GIE,
Arsenal were doing moneyball before moneyball was moneyball. Wenger has said so many times this summer (and just before the end of last season) that we’re now coming out of the phase where money had to be a major concern. It won’t be so much moneyball in absolute terms anymore. Only based on our budget. Like it was before. A 40m bid should show that.
LB
I think Liverpool were trying everything to sell him, at a higher price to someone else. They need the money. I think they have something like 85m debt or something, and they’ve already spent 24million this window, with talk of trying to buy 30m Willian as well. Either they are really spending to try and get the top 4, or they intend to sell Suarez, just as Spurs’ are doing with Bale.
But anyway..No more transfer talk. Football. I’ve been putting it off but I’m going to watch the Villa game again today, and then of course later Fenerbahce. Despite the famed Turkish cauldron, I’m happy we’re playing away. Our home crowd weighs more heavily on our players right now. I wonder what the refereeing will be like. Taylor’s performance reminded me of why I don’t trust referees. I don’t trust Uefa referees either. The Barcelona match referee Bussaca was promoted 2 years ahead of retirement to a job at the top of referees in Uefa after that game. Wenger’s been given bans for pretty much nothing, including for doing what they told him he could do (with a squealing Geoff Shreeves saying..look look..he’s talking to the team). Basically, I’m scared about the refereeing. If nothing else they’ll send a referee who’s a homer, and then send one to us who’s not. Which is what they’e done earlier.
OK. Team. I think the team pretty much picks itself, due to injuries. I’m unsure whether Sagna will start, and I agree with Kelsey that Fabianski might be picked. Ramsey and Wilshere in the middle is a concern, and Wilshere isn’t completely fit (and no doubt will be targeted) . Cazorla or Rosicky? Cazorla looked unfit when he came on in the scond half, so I don’t know. Podolski, Walcott, Giroud.
Bench: Szcz/Fab, Sagna, Monreal, Frimpong, Gnabry, Cazorla/Rosicky, Sanogo,
Shard – is your job something to do with football?
evonne
Why would you think that??
after hours of blogging you are to watch the Villa game again, followed by more blogging and Fenerbahce game, probably twice 🙂 Plus you know all there is to know about the game. So either you get paid for it or you are out of work 🙂
It’s the latter option at the moment evonne 🙂
Although I probably should make better use of my time. I’ve crossed stage 1 of my exam, and need to do soooooooo much before stage 2 comes along from the 1st of Dec, but here I am worrying about Arsenal and referees and transfers. I need some discipline 🙂
Nay, don’t worry about the exams Shard, the most important thing is to get your priorities right 🙂
What do you read? Law?
I read pretty much everything evonne, although in general, not as a specialist. Law and constitution (bloody largest constitution in the world), history, geography, economy and trade, security and defense, science and technology, and so on.. and now with all the talk of corruption in political discourse, I need to figure out what to study for a stupid paper on ethics. Oh, I’m trying to get into the civil service. Probably should have said just that 🙂
Morning all ……
…. New post ……
i guess not 😦
I was curious if you ever thought of changing the structure of your
website? Its very well written; I love what youve got to say.
But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better.
Youve got an awful lot of text for only having 1 or
two images. Maybe you could space it out better?