This is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
It is also sometimes colloquially used to cast doubt upon statistics used to prove an opponent’s point.
The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881):
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli’s works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death.
Mark Twain popularized the saying in “Chapters from My Autobiography”, published in the North American Review in 1906. “Figures often beguile me,” he wrote, “particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: ‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
I’m a person who enjoys using statistical data, especially factual/actual data. In football I use it to gain a better understanding of “what, if” scenarios.
The chart below shows our actual statistics through the first twenty games of each of our Premier League seasons.
To avoid any controversy I will not reach any personal conclusions in this post – but I’ll be only to happy to dialogue, later in the day.
Here are some actual facts from the data
1. The most goals scored was 53 in 2009/10 and we finished 3rd.
2. The least goals against was 11 in 1993/4 and we finished 4th and then again in 1998/9 when we finished 2nd.
3. The greatest goal difference was 30 in 2009/10 and we finished 3rd.
4. The most points won was 47 in 2007/8 when we finished 3rd.
(It’s interesting to note that we did not win the league in any of these instances).
5. With the same or less points we’ve finished 1st once, 2nd once, 4th four times, 5th once, 10th once and 12th once.
6. With the same or less goals for we’ve finished 1st once, 2nd four times, 4th three times, 10th once and 12th once.
It should also be noted that our current goals against of 28 is the worst in our PL history.
The years 1992/3, 1993/4 and 1994/5 were all 42 game seasons.
Written by GunnerN5
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
G5,
Do you have an enormous forehead, crazy hair and a blackboard?
Loving this post.
In two of those Title Winning Teams, we conceded only 3 and 4 less. In other words, its goals scored that is going to make the difference. Also, what ststs don’t tell you is that if you are 2 up in ten minutes, there’s a good chance the opposition will give up, whereas when you are 1 up with 20 mins to go, they will be all over you like a rash, thus vastly increasing their chances of damaging your goals against column.
Score two early, I say.
The goals against would be average if not for the Mancs game, never in any of those stats in previous years have we suffered that.
There will always be abnormalities when analysing with stats Disreali or Mark Twain were correct. So stop this shit and bring pressure on Wenger to strengthen the squad with quality, we can still do well this year. Gunner for Ever xxxxx
Welcome GunnerBoy,
Very good points. I believe stats can be a misleading diversion from what the eyes and the gut tell you.
Lessons can be learnt from watching performances, but sometimes stats can cast doubt upon what you believed at the time.
It must be true that had we made the last 3 signings before the start of the season we would not haver conceded those 8 goals – but who knows, maybe it was because we let in 8 that the signings actually took place?
Morning Rasp,
Thing is, you could remove 5 of those Utd goals from the Goals Against column and we would have the same points. Being an “attack attack” kinda guy, I am convinced when teams face a side that they know pose serious goal threats, they begin the match worried, negative, apprehensive and maybe even troubled in the trouser department. We have lost that aura.
Gunnerboy,
I happen to agree with your angle, but I do think “this shit” is “excellent shit”, as if interpreted the right way (ie mine 🙂 ) then there can be only one conclusion. Get Arsene to give me a call.
Thanks for the post Gn5
Statistics never lie – they are facts: the potential lie sits within the eye of the beholder and his/her subsequent interpretation and usage.
The stats you provide Gn5 are more or less useless unless you are willing to draw some conclusions from them. Without that, there cannot be much debate. I for one, cannot pull any conclusions from those stats: they tell me nothing. Sorry mate.
Morning Micky,
I agree with your point about the opposition being on the back foot when they perceive they are up against an imposing strike force. Drogba all but ended Senderos’ Arsenal career. I’m hoping that TH will have effect for the next 2 months.
Incidentally, I wonder what his shirt number will be – maybe Theo should relinquish the No.14 and then earn it all over again 😕
Micky 🙂 you just proved my point with your first comment of the day! I agree with you we need to score more goals but those stats do not support our view.
Not to unhappy with the season so far, disappointed with 2 or 3 of the results. Rasp think you are right the drubbing we took from the Mancs i am sure forced Snr.Wenger in to those ‘panic purchases’.
Artetta has proved a brilliant buy,Mertesacker is getting better all the time,Santos showing great potential,Benayoun needs more games but Park what happened with him,any one know?
As others have said take the 8 out from ManU game and even the 4 from the Blackburn and we look ok in defence stakes.
I know they happened but they are obviously bloody huge anomalies in the data.
What is clear tho is the PL has changed and as Micky says a 1-0 lead going into 60 minutes will almost always invite an onslaught from your opponents if they have a semblance of personal pride and some solid pros who know how to get things done. We need the second and third goals, thats what title winners manage to find.
As I said yesterday I think we started to try and play on the counter as Fulham pushed forward for an equaliser, and it worked in that we created space, however we lacked ruthlessness.
For all our talent we are over reliant on the few older heads to get the job done, and the likes of RvP, Arteta and Mertesacker must be tiring, not just physically but mentally. Around them are players that all too often drift out of the game or get overwhelmed by the pressure they are put under and fail to keep possession (Song and Djourou two who suffer from this). It is games like Monday when you realise just how important a player Little Jack will be for us, he is someone who can retain possession under pressure with a simple body swerve and will always gain you ten yards with possession, thus helping the rest of the team move out of the defensive third.
We need more calming influences throughout the squad and at the moment we are still short in these areas.
TA Bonjour,
Surely the point of G5’s post is to present the facts for the purpose of debate and for us to then cunningly unearth the patterns to support our own theories 🙂
An interesting read from Martin Samuel today
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2081937/Where-does-John-W-Henry-stand-Luis-Suarez-Martin-Samuel.html
And I’d also recommend Untold Arsenal http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/17792 A rather sobering look at the officiating of Lee Probert against us, I had forgot it was he who gave the non penalty away at Wigan last year and also who advised sending Wenger to the stands at OT for having the temerity to kick a water bottle in disappointment.
Although I still don’t believe in blaming the ref for Mondays episode it is worth reading as the guys at Untold Arsenal explore things that you watch first time and forget. Like Djourou being fouled twice by Riise and waving advantage only for him to lose possession on the third fair tackle.
Morning all, I’m only just emerging out of my football news Mugabe lockdown after the Fulham debacle so thanks to GN5 for a pointer as to where we sit compared to past seasons half way through.
My moan of the day is the hold up on the Henry deal – we, as a club, look like a bunch of muppets when we announce Henry’s return “within 48 hours” on December 29th and then on January the 4th there is still no official confirmation of the return of TH12.
Apparently we can’t agree a return date to New York Red Bulls for Tel and the insurance is a problem.
To my mind it makes us look small time.
Interesting post G5.
Morning Rasp: Henry will wear the number 12 shirt I believe
As far as statistics are concerned, they are fine for identifying trends but my experience over the years tells me they are also the staple diet and natural habitat of the control freak. From a management point of view foresight, empathy and generosity of spirit, will always produce more than, stats, ratios etc.
Witness the fact that the biggest advocate of management by stats currently working in football, would be the one and only super bully, the mighty Sam Allerdyce, ask West ham fans how they are liking their stat driven football this season, I fear the reply will be less than courteous
Rasp,
You are “bad” bringing up Theo again!
Since you have, what concerns me most is we invest bloody years in a player (yes, and money) that inevitably stalls the progress of the team, so that we don’t hinder the development of a player, to then find he buggers off.
Bon Matin Micky, you are so right. Every other year we scored 36 goals we either became first or second. I am feeling good again 😀
By the way in my Like for Like stats (which upsettingly now show a 3 point deficit against last year, the worst of the top 6) we have scored 9 less than in the corresponding fixtures last year and only conceded 3 more.
I don’t want to talk about Spuds! Amazing that they gained 6 points in my like of like for the wins at Nowrich, and WBA and the draw at Swansea. Guess it shows how shit they were last year 😀
Exactly Mdi89 – it’s why Oil City FC and others call us a feeder club and that’s them being not completely unfair.
dandan,
Control freaks 🙂
Thing is, I reckon when G5 is hiding in his basement Control Centre, surrounded by his ancient whiskies, black angus beef and his blackboard, he is simply a numbers man. A kind of Arsenal Sudoku Obsessive Compulsive.
Thanks for the stats G5. The bottom line is were you finish, and the stats are that since Wengers arival we have been in the top four every year, someting we already knew.
The Wenger trend is 1st or 2nd pre Ashburton Grove and Abramovich, and 3rd or 4th since. A fine record if you ask me.
Chary the Insurance was always going to be difficult the MLS had Beckham return unfit on too many occasions to allow it to happen to their new star. Its the same cost that stopped Spuds sign Beckham last term.
If the Insurance is anywhere near as much as the cost to sign a player I’d take the permanent deal thanks.
But I would guess that this one is out of Wengers hands, needless to say certain section of the fan base will blame him if it doesn’t happen
TA,
Twist the facts my friend. Twist the facts 🙂
According to YoungGuns Coq is signing until 2015…can’t we make that longer?
Oh Chary,
We are not a feeder club. With City, we simply unloaded a nasty virus that has made us stronger.
When will some of you learn to get fact twisting. Jeepers!
But, GiE, if there were so many hitches still to be tied up with the deal why not keep shctum till it’s confirmed ?
The rate we’re going will it be worth it if the delay sees him miss the next 3 or 4 games ? That’s about a third of the games he could have played for us during the 8 week loan period.
I don’t blame Wenger for this, just the people in the club who are making us look like mugs, for the umpteenth time.
As 10.41 mentioned stats without any conclusion mean nada.Just like a profit and Loss Account of Company means nothing unless complimented by a Cashflow statement and Balance Sheet with supporting notes.
I wouldnt advice you to go on The Dragons Den with those raw facts.You would be crusified big time by Theo Pathisis.
Chary I wonder if Wenger was trying to pressure the board, if he was I don’t think it worked.
And to be fair I hope it doesn’t work out as maybe they will be forced to do something more permanent.
Back to the top 50 list Junior Hoilett anyone?
BTW Evonne if you’re watching get the bloody ell back on here we miss you….and it’s only been a day!
It is odd GiE – it(the loan deal) seemed to have board approval going by the way the stories related to Henry’s return were plastered over Arse.com.
I sense someone in the backroom staff is going to get a kicking for what could become a PR fiasco.
GiE, you have been in some fine form during the last few days. Your analytical approach and willingness to back your views up with stats and other info makes you one of my favourite bloggers on here. Top stuff.
The way Liverpool has handled the Suarez case is simply beyond words. I always had a soft spot for Liverpool and Everton, as I had three of my best working years in that city, and I love the Scouse-way-of-life and friendliness, but they have fallen deeply for me now. The T-shirt appeal thing and Suarez’ statement last night were rediculous and shameful. They clearly are refusing to learn a lesson and have produced a PR-disaster of huge proportions. What a shambles!
Micky that kind of spin must keep you in power at the whiff whaff club.
Cheers TA fighting the good fight 🙂 I’ve been on too much tho as I should be working! Perils of a couple of days in the office!
The Samuel piece this morning was very good….I am shocked at how Liverpool handled it and I have not read the 115 pages I’m sure our good friend 26 has and can give us a breakdown. It appears that the reliability of Suarez was questioned because of an ever changing story, that Liverpool with this knowledge continue their plea of innocence without actually appealing is strange indeed.
GiE,
It`s amazing ,what a talent young Jack Is, in that we are missing the calming influence of someone so young, were so lucky to have him, because if he was on your list, we wouldn`t be able to afford him !.
For Evonne 🙂
CHMURY
Z opisywaniem chmur
musiałabym się bardzo śpieszyć –
już po ułamku chwili
przestają być te, zaczynają być inne.
Ich właściwością jest
nie powtarzać się nigdy
w kształtach, odcieniach, pozach i układzie.
Nie obciążone pamięcią o niczym,
unoszą się bez trudu nad faktami.
Jacy tam z nich świadkowie czegokolwiek –
natychmiast rozwiewają się na wszystkie strony.
W porównaniu z chmurami
życie wydaje się ugruntowane,
omalże trwałe i prawie że wieczne.
Przy chmurach
nawet kamień wygląda jak brat,
na którym można polegać,
a one, cóż, dalekie i płoche kuzynki.
Niech sobie ludzie będą, jeśli chcą,
a potem po kolei każde z nich umiera,
im, chmurom nic do tego
wszystkiego
bardzo dziwnego.
Nad całym Twoim życiem
i moim, jeszcze nie całym,
paradują w przepychu, jak paradowały.
Nie mają obowiązku razem z nami ginąć.
Nie muszą być widziane, żeby płynąć.
GiE, it is totally bizarre. There is an elephant in the room and they are refusing to see it. I don’t like the Mancs at all, similar to GM’s ‘dislike’, but they have managed this situation very well by not getting provoked and keeping a low profile. Liverpool FC are a disgrace.
Not a great deal of conclusions to draw from this table. What would help is if there was a column showing what position we were in after 20 games. Then we could look at how we had finished the season, something that has cost us in recent seasons. When Arsene first arrived, a fixture in Arsrnal and Man Utd’s seasons which set them apart from the rest was there ability to string unbeaten runs together after Xmas until the end of the season. Lately, espescially last season, this hasn’t been the case for Arsenal and I think that would reflect in our league position. It’s obviously much harder for us to do such a thing, with us regularly being in the latter stages of the CL and with the league becoming more and more competitive, but United still appear to have been capable of great runs during recent years, do what’s happened to ours?
If we can produce that again then we could be looking at future league winners.
TA,
Does Evonne speak Chinese!?
TA,
What colour elephant is it TA!?
Best not answer that, might get in bother!!!
ArsenalLive Arsenal Live
Arsenal Reserves v Sunderland: Martinez, Hoyte, Miquel (c), Boateng, Hajrovic, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Yennaris, Eastmond, Ryo, Murphy, Park.
Interesting compilation, GN5.
I have often expressed my disinterest in statistical data when chatting on blogs.
My reasons for saying so are that very few people understand how to use the information revealed by the data. And those who do, often forget (?) or do not agree (?) to set a “P” value against which to measure the results. [Don’t worry I am not going to try and explain further] 🙂
For the sake of this discussion, we need to agree among ourselves what data to use (and there are mountains of info out there to choose from).
So we will need different data sets for specific purposes – Players (defenders/strikers/midfielders); managers (top club/relegation club); and teams (domestic/european leagues) and so on.
Let’s have a look at what has become accepted standard statistical data capture used by managers gleaned from Pro-Zone;
From memory, I believe the following are deemed to be some key indicators of successful performance, for example:
– Goals scored.
– Overall shots and shots on target.
– Total passes and pass success rates.
– Frequency and number of touches per player.
– Sequential passes between players.
– High-intensity – distance covered with/without possession.
(the speed distance is covered – say 5 metres per second)
The thing is, even if we agreed that these were indeed key factors, and we are able to obtain the statistical data for each sector, it would be very difficult to interpret the information or results obtained.
For example, the data results obtained for a ‘rugby playing’ football team such as Bolton or Stoke 🙂 might be deemed to be excellent, and yet in a highly skilled ball playing team like Arsenal those same statistical data results would be deemed to be ‘awful’ because of the differing playing styles of those clubs.
The above might give you an inkling about my reluctance to be drawn into discussions about ‘stats’, because we could spend forever agreeing or more likely disagreeing on what the results ‘prove’.
Now that — is why statistical analysis sometimes has such a bad name, because ignorance of the subject can be used to ‘prove’ almost anything by meaningless data manipulation. 🙂
Give it a go and see! 🙄 🙂
Forgot to change my name
I’m out most of the morning so I won’t be able to interact very much.
I have an enormous data base pertaining to Arsenal which I have created over the past 25 + years, starting in Lotus 123 and then converting over to Excel. I created the data base out of a personal interest in stats and ongoing quibbles about actual events from the past. I thought that like minded Arsenal supporters would also share the interest, hence the post.
I make no contention about stats being be “be all and end all” but I do believe that they are superior to hindsight and subjective opinion when used to predict the future.
Dandan, I wonder what the Chairman of General Motors would say if you told him to ignore the stats – as he would sell more cars by having a generous spirit and an empathetic nature, or telling bookies to rely on feelings and not odds?
lequipe L’ÉQUIPE
Francis Coquelin a prolongé son contrat http://lequi.pe/zuZwPO #football
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by @iTz_Renato
Even my shit French knows that he’s extended his contract. Great news
I expected greater things from you RA 🙂
Stats are there to be used to support what it is you were going to do anyway. Intuition and common sense rule.
Give me any stat, and I will use it to my advantage. Its how DidIt’s survive 🙂
G5,
I don’t believe there is a single Entreprenneur or Chairman of a Company who survives without sometimes ignoring stats and going with intuition. Its what seperates Leaders from the Lead.
Thanks for post. Still loving it.
RA,
My database is mainly pertaining to the hard detail in the league tables.
Somebody earlier alluded to AW not being interested in stats – yet he is the Guru of statistical data, including having the players wearing micro- chips to enable him to collect personalised data.
I have carried out some statistical research of my own; and can unequivocally state that a study of the population of AA regulars leads me to the conclusion that those living in the West Country have a propensity to be comical, have a particular taste for bull chasing, talking bollix and an inclination towards lesbianism.
I am moving down there tomorrow!!
More breaking news as my research continues. Accountants beware!! 🙂
MD,
That’s what separates entrepreneurs from managers and has little to do with leadership – having survived 25 years as a corporate executive I can assure you that few decisions were emotion based.
G5,
The decisions I’m referring to would be taken by the Chairman not his troops.
GN5,
I admire your work in maintaining your tables, and altho you may have forgotten, I asked for and received one of your models about a year ago, because i liked it so much.
I did not wish to stymie chat about the footie data you have got, I was just making the point, no doubt inadequately, that a blog is a difficult environment to arrive at consensus.
It could be fun and I am all for that! 🙂
RA……………….
Statistics are like whores, play with them long enough and they’ll do anything for you.
RA,
Spot on about the Lesbianism.
I have never been a lover of statistics. You can produce all the statstics you wish, but the only one which matters in football is that you win!
Right lads,
Great chatting. Back later.
If you are going to hang out with statisticians, you’re going to have to get used to a lot of uninterpretable interactions. ***
Brigham,
With style matters!
Later.
You got it in one Micky, Can you imagine Richard Branson relying just on stats. I do believe he made a penny or two along the way.
Redders 🙂
You will slip in seamlessly down here, like a lesbian potterer making a furry cup !
A historian, an engineer and a statistician are duck hunting. a duck rises from the lake. the historian fires first, and shoots 10′ over the duck. then the engineer shoulders the shotgun and shoots 10′ under the duck. the statistician exclaimed “got him!”. ***
“do you like statisticians?” “probably.” ***
dandan,
Ha ha. I’m sure the stat men said: “Oi Branson, there are no figures to support the idea that selling records means going into air travel is a good idea”.
Shit. Really off.
Reading the comments betwixt Micky and GN5 is interesting.
It is often too easy to fall into disagreeing with each other when both might be right but in different circumstances.
Small businesses where the owner/manager/chairperson are all roles undertaken by the same guy, and where entrepreneurship (including -gut feeling) is a key factor, is a very different environment from the corporate world of public limited companies etc, where the real driving force is the Chief Executive who has many specialist qualified minions to advise him, under the stewardship of the Chairman and all of them answerable to their shareholders, and where feelings (gut or otherwise) are not accepted attributes in decision making.
They are different business models, but each works (usually) in their respective commercial areas.
Yaay! You are both (probably) right! 🙂
Dandan,
It’s accepted that we can always find “one off’s” in any situation, and Branson is among the group, but you don’t see too many major companies advertising for empathic leaders.
Without doubt there is a difference between those that rely on stats and those that have a more gut reaction.
DanDan is right the likes of Branson, Sugar, Jobs and Gates do not start businesses based purely on numbers that makes them entrepreneurs and sets them apart from 95% of business leaders who are more likely to see how it works out before copying a model. Sometimes (as in the case of Jobs and Gates) others leave it too late to copy and the standards are set and dominance is won.
You only have to look at our centre of excellence under the power of Howard Wilkinson which decided playing percentages was the best way to win football matches. Spain took a different path and now we are playing catch up. As DanDan pointed out it is these methods that are not endearing Allardyce to Hammer fans (for whom I’ve always had a soft spot). They will get their share of successes but I would guess the fans are more unhappy now than when playing attractive football and being relegated.
They all said Tubular Bells wouldnt sell, Branson said to Oldfield, stuff that give it here, started Virgin, the rest as they say is history.
RA.
Agreed, I’m obviously talking from the large corporation viewpoint.
Gn5,
Very interesting looking at the stats and a good read, but historical football stats mean nothing to me, does it have any bearing whatsoever on our current situation ?. The only stats that seem to matter nowadays is, how much you are willing to spend to buy a trophy !.
Not forgetting , 36, 24 ,36, those are nice curvy stats.
Any Lesbian stat`s Micky ?
I learnt my lesson about stats many years ago. during my youth i was involved in a battle with this other geezer over the affections of some bird.. My stats, Greek God like looks, His stats, Ian Dowie lookalike. The winner…..Ian Dowie lookalike. this taught me that its not the stats that count, but what you do with them.
Stats can be facts but still need putting into perspective. For those of you who read my similar stats before Christmas will know that the top 6 have scored more points at the 16 game mark than any other PL season by a fair few. This is because the game has changed over the last 6 years so much with the top 6 having the resources other clubs don’t have. The only slight exception is Tottnumb where their manager has assembled an unbelievable first 11 with Bale being the 2nd best player in the world after Messi (in my opinion). So with this bar being raised we have to forget the past stats and raise our game to the point that we cannot let the results against Wolves and Fulham ever happen again.
FGG 🙂
Hi RA 🙂 Interesting observations.
My experience is that Chief Executives tend to go with their guts and then interpret/manipulate the available stats to justify him/herself, rather than vice versa. It is all a show and there is very little science/professionalism to top-management. The personality and the inherent beliefs on how businesses should be run and people should be managed is the key driver. Four different CEO’s means four different management styles, and to a lesser extent, directions the company will take (depending on how much freedom the Shareholders allow the CEO).
Stats can be very important in arriving at an informed decision, providing you use the ‘correct’ statistical data and interpret it ‘properly’.
For example, if AW wants to buy a player (I do not ‘know’ this for fact, because he won’t talk to me 🙂 ), I think he would have a number of key factors to help him arrive at a ‘buy – no buy’ decision.
These may not solely relate to size, skill, age, experience etc, but also to a players social background. If he has a reputation as a trouble maker, has been in trouble with the Law, a drinking problem etc are not football related but it is information that he would need before spending (possibly) big money.
Statistical data on a player’s hair, such as colour, curly/not curly, bald/not bald, wiggy/not wiggy would be interesting but not relevant.
So what is the role of stats in AW’s buying methodology?
At heart, AW having gleaned all the ‘relevant’ info he can on a potential target, has to make a decision to ‘buy – no buy’, and inevitably in the final analysis he has to make a ‘gut decision’ as to whether or not the player would be a valuable addition to the team. The stats are simply one of the tools he would use to arrive at that conclusion.
In essence the comparison between ‘entrepreneurship/gut feeling’ and statistical information is wrong headed because one is a human attribute or skill and the other is the interpretation of known data.
Both have their place but are not mutually exclusive in business terms. Stats on their own are as useful as TerryM in a shampoo advert! 🙂
Damn, I have been drawn into the discussion when I promised myself I would not. 🙂
I am off.
Arsedave, second time i’m going to have to ask you to reconsider, Bale the 2nd best player in the World? Come on….i think Ronaldo and RvP would have something to say about that. When he does it against top teams regularly i will maybe accept it.
TA, 🙂
What statistical data do you have to support your very subjective views on all those nice CEO’s like Fred the Shred who cost the taxpayer millions? 😳 🙄 👿
Definitely gone now! 🙂
Arsedave – You are entitled to your opinion – but maybe you would like to watch actual football before arriving at the whole “Bale skipping 800 places to number 2” thing- he is not even the best player in the spuds. He is barely in their top 3. He has 4 or 5 unplayable performances against tired old defences and this seems to buy him untold credibility.
RVP, Silva, Rooney, Modric, VDV are light years ahead of him in terms of consistancy and performance.
he is a flash in the pan, and one of the reasons why spuds won’t / can’t win the league…. – you can’t win the league building your team around your fits and starts wingback
GIE
Ronaldo has had 2 of the best teams in the world supporting him, RVP is the best striker in the world.
Bale is fitted with an afterburner, and | can’t remember what game it was he pulled a ball which was kicked about 60 yards and and a 100 feet high to the oppositions by-line (in fact it was half a ball over the line) and took it under control with ease with a sublime touch, now that is a footballer.
Statistically ‘even’ Theo is ahead of Bale hahahaha 🙂 I love a tease 😆
Hi RA, the subjective nature of top-management is one the main reasons I have said goodbye to corporate live, and yes, I came to this decision totally by gut-merit 🙂
No Arsedave – that is a youtube highlight – Matches and seasons are about consistant 8/10 performances not a 10/10 split second forllowed by 2 months of 5/10 performances
Arsedave, I actually agree with you that Bale is a fine player and is likely to only get better. I would not mind him at Arsenal 🙂
TA – he’d be flinging faeces at his team mates and leaving banana skins every where
Stats are what they are. They only real purpose they serve is after the fact. What difference would it make if you played the first 20 games and were sitting in first place because you won every game 1-0. Your natural worry is that if you only score 1 goal each game sooner or later someone is gonna catch you with that 1 goal lead at the 60 minute mark, lets say for instance Fulham does it and then gets the go ahead goal in the 89th.
Or, in contrast at the end of the season of 40 games and won every game 1-0? Would you think that you should’ve scored more? Were you bored to tears the whole season? Or would you relish the fact that you didn’t give up a goal the whole season, went undefeated and won the Prem? Stats are interesting to look at in retrospect but there’s little to no value in them unless you win because they were so outstanding vs everyone elses. I’ll only be concerned with stats during a season if we haven’t won a game at the halfway mark.
D98 – you have to be open-minded to all sorts of ways to improve camaraderie levels 🙂
Wise words Nick 🙂
Stiffs 2 nil down against the Mackems at the moment.
D98 – can we expect another one of your fine post anytime soon?
TA – thank you, that’s beautiful. I am still off football, it hurts too much 😦
Cannot stop myself peeping here to keep an eye on you lot xx
Chary anyone playing well?
Evonne it’s supposed to hurt, then you know you’re a true supporter rather than a ITYS who waits for defeats to come and extol the virtues of their foresight.
Unlucky Demi-God Haircules. You should have used my Tackle Nav2, Dowie lookalike would have still been stuck at the Palace !
Evonne – I have written a post for AA that will hopefully cheer you up again. The poem was by Wislawa Szymborska – glad you liked it 🙂
Murphy and Oxochamberpot have shown a few good touches, but Sunderland are hard ot break down. The only thing Park has done is blazed a couple of shots over the bar, GiE.
Come out, come out evonne wherever you are! 😛
TA – i am brewing one up as we speak – i keep them for the darker moments of the season – although i might write one pro / anti the Henry return as soon as i understand how it makes me feel.
🙂
Where is Ox playing Chary? And Murphy for that matter?
Good stuff D98. It won’t get any darker than after the Fulham game: the days are getting longer and so will our fortune – so better hurry up 🙂
TA,
You are such a smoothie! 🙂
Writing love poems to Evonne just so you can use her car parking lot is very cunning! 🙂
I am hiding behind LB’s sofa, he is hiding too, clearly 🙂
Thank you guys
I am just a whimp, cannot do defeat gracefully
But I don’t want to be a fair weather supporter either, only with the team when they are winning, oh, I don’t know…..maybe the Gordies will win tonight, that should cheer me up a bit
I’m only following the match by Tweets GiE – it seems like Murphy is CM/DM and Oxo AM.
Going back to my earlier point if Henry had signed by now he could have been warming up for dirty Leeds in this match.
I know RA, it is all calculated selfishness 🙂 But then, you cannot claim you have seen Evonne parking lot, and you have not enjoyed one of her formidable cups of tea, have you? Believe you me, if you had you would be sending Evonne meaningful poetry all the time! 😛
LB, where are you mate? You better come out or I will send you a poem! 🙂
So, the Stiffs finsh their game as a 2 nil loss.
Oh well.
Quite simply, the stats in no way take into account the strengths of the opposition. When we were winning the league, we only really had one true rival for the title, but now there are 5 or 6 VERY good teams. I get the feeling that the side we have put out is not very different, in terms of overall quality, compared to the “great” sides we have had before; the difference now is that every point is that much more precious, and so every minor failure feels that much worse. In fact, I think the 07/08 side was probably the best we have seen under wenger, and we didn’t win the title (although we were COMPLETELY screwed that year by the referees, and eduardo’s injury)
Davi, very fine comment and I think I agree. This would be great to look into and write a post about!
Davi
You’ve hit the nail on the head:
“difference now is that every point is that much more precious”
Very good point.
Thanks for the stats gn5 but as others have said there are different ways to interpret them. We conceded 8 at united so one can’t take that away as it is a fact.
i am more concerned that we are only averaging 1.6 goals = 16 in ten home matches. We have all of the top 7 bar liverpool to play at home and our goals for in that column needs to improve dramatically.
TA – naughty!
Good call TA.
Davi, your style is very much in keeping with the site, have you considered submitting a headline article?
Resistance is futile as one way or another we’ll get you in the end 😛
Kelsey whilst reviewing some data for a post I came across that fact (our home goals for tied 6th with Fulham who allegedly can’t score) our away goals for of 20 is impressive though and second best in the league.
Our home defence is also third best in the league (only 6 against)
Evonne, naughty, me? 🙂
lucky you weren’t around in the sixties evonne, otherwise we would never see you 😉
No arguement GIE it was just that over the last number of years we seemed to score for free at home.
Ahh those were the days Kelsey……
The goals dried up at home about halfway through last season, in truth they haven’t recovered, have no idea why.
But I do have a theory.
Rasp theres one in drafts, and i’ve just had another idea.
Thanks GiE ………..
so do I ,GIE 😉
Does anyone know the difference in pitch size between our new home and Highbury, as Highbury was certainly one of the smallest.
Mannone off to Hull on Loan
According to Wiki not a lot in it.
Highbury 100mx67m = 6700sqm
Emirates 105mx68m = 7140sqm
Craven Cottage is 100m x 68m
Stoke is smallest I wonder why? 100m x 64m (which they have to make bigger for UEFA games to 105m x 69m)
GiE,
I read the BBC list you published earlier. I would be fascinated if somehow all bloggers were allowed to pick one player off that list, while putting aside affordability and practicality. Then take a positional average to discover which positions we would strengthen as a priority.
Evening all – I’m not really one for stats, they have a purpose of course, but not really in football in my opinion. I prefer the obvious, as in, “our keeper keeps flapping at crosses and couldn’t catch a cold, let’s get rid” as opposed to “in 2.5 seasons our keeper has missed 3.9 crosses per game and .9 of the time has shoved the ball back into the box instead of round the post.”
Denilson had a fantastic completed pass rate from what I remember – what they didn’t tell you was that most of them were sideways and slowing up our attack.
A tough looking group of cyclists were riding together when they saw a woman about to jump off a bridge, so they stopped.
The leader, a big burly man, gets off his bike and says,
“What are you doing?”
“I’m going to commit suicide,” she says.
While he didn’t want to appear insensitive, he didn’t want to miss an opportunity either, so he asked… “Well, before you jump, why don’t you give me a kiss?”
So she does… And it was a long, deep, lingering kiss, with plenty of tongues.
After she’s finished, the biker says, “Wow! That was the best kiss I’ve ever had! That’s a real talent you are wasting. You could be famous. Why in the world would you want to commit suicide?”
“My parents don’t like me dressing up like a girl……..”.
The authorities think she may have been pushed and are looking for a cyclist wearing an Arsenal scarf! 🙂
I always praise you AAers for your tactical technical knowledge of the beautiful game ! , but it is said to be a simple game ,which sits fine with me, because I only see simplistic views on it. So here Is my simplistic observation.
I love our tippy tappy football, but I`m wondering If other Teams like It, because their not worried by It . Would any of you worry if Stoke started to carress the ball about ?, probably not, but I bet your hearts are in your mouth`s when they start chucking it in the penalty area by any means. So with the amount of possession we have,(which must be well above the average ) If we started chucking it in , would the other teams become more worried ?.
Chamakh would probably excell.
As it`s stats day, how does our tippy tappy possession football over the last few years , compare to the ” Invincible” football in Percentages ?.
I do not advocate “skyball” but just wondered !.
Last seen riding off into the sunset with a goodlooking mare somewhere in Hertfordshire ! 🙂
Hi Simple, 🙂
I would have a serious word with GLIC the PLIC because he has been using your opening line – “I always praise you AAers for your tactical technical knowledge of the beautiful game !”
Not that we do not find it touching, of course.
P.S. What is “skyballs”? A giraffe’s tackle?
RA. Fine joke. Thinking of cyclists – where are LB and 26?
Don’t Barca play tippy tappy football.
Gn5. Thank you for the post – I particularly enjoyed your introduction.
Another one in drafts Rasp. Don’t use them all at once I’m in credit now 😀
Yes it is Redders 🙂
Yes they do Raddy, but much better 😦
Come off it GiE, I’ve just seen the title of one of them 😆
(Crossed arms, tapping feet ) 👿 Simple version, would anyone be scared if Stoke played tippy tappy stuff ?
Are you anxious when they throw it in our area ?
And it`s not Rhetorical ! 🙂
Well that one is only relevant for a few days tho. 😀
That is intriguing, Peaches.
What was the title?
“An Accountant’s Confession — I was a Mermaid Call Girl”
GIE? Surely not! 🙂
Simple,
Only if they were wearing skirts, red lipstick and winking at me!!
RA – you’ll have to wait and see I’m afraid 😉
GiE – of course, after Thierry starts banging them in it’ll be obsolete 😉 😆
Micky,
From that list I`d take any of Tevez, Sneijder, Gotze, Eriksen, Hazard and Neymar. The rest I either dont want or dont know too much about to form an opinion. My only opinion is, we wont get any !. 😦
Redder`s
I thought that was the norm` in the “Scrubs” 🙂
Ahh i think i meant the other one, that one can be used any time.
I know, I’m just being wicked 😆
Peaches,
So I was right. The clue was in your reply.
“You will have to wait and sea”, that is what mermaids always say to GLIC, as GIE well knows! 🙂
Well done RA 🙂
How weird is that, You know I used to date a conjoined twin ( which one day I will tell you how it ended ), well I used to date a mermaid, another fishy tail from Cornwall .
Peache`s
Who has our Haircules Terry been Banging ?
Preferably anything with a pulse…..but ime not fussy.
Terry,
I like them short sweet to the point answers. 🙂
Was arsedave serious about bale?
I wonder what all the people who think signing Henry (because he’s a has been) is a bad idea think about giggs the faminly breaker starting tonight. those people generally want to suck rednoses willy.
I`ve been summoned by Mrs glic, I dont like it when she`s angry, I shall sheepishly slither downstairs !
I hope the barcodes beat the dirty mancs
good luck glic
Tiote looks like a spartan with his hair like that
GLIC,
If we started lumping the ball in the box then our possession would drop because we keep losing the to opposition keepers and defenders.
What we need to do is get back to the quick, counter attacking system of old. That’s when teams used to fear our pace. We are too cumbersome going forward and have been ever since we swapped speed and power for technical, passing ability. The signings of Gervinho and Ox make me think that Wenger is trying to get back to the more direct style we had before, but the level of the lower teams in the league makes it much more difficult.
Just look at teams like Swansea and Wigan, they can play football on the floor. Years ago when we had the likes Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg, Henry, Vieira etc many teams in the PL were still playing with 2 six foot lumps up front and hoofing the ball forward. You just don’t see that anymore, except in Stoke!
The tippy tappy football that came in with Fabregas and co hasn’t worked and maybe it’s time for Arsene to look at a new style of play. Whatever that tactic is, it needs to be more direct than it is now and built upon a more solid defence than we have now.
Stonewall penalty. webb is so fucking corrupt it’s untrue. no wonder the mancs do so well.
he might as well have a red shirt on the c**t
1-0 Newcastle
Demba Ba!!
Nothing Webb could do about that one.
Its a wonder Webb cant find an excuse to cancel that goal out. What a biased referee this guy is.
have that you c**t webb
the commentater is a fucking wanker.
Webb should never referee again. He must be paid by rednose
GM hahahahahaha, legend.
Newcastle are really going to miss Demba Ba – whatever about us and RvP, does anyone else score for them?
Rooney’s thatch looks like it comes from Cornwall.
Evening all.
I think we will improve immensely when Sagna, Santos, Diaby and Wilshere return, especially because we can rotate the midfield axis with like for like quality.
If we could add a decent back-up for Szczesney, a real winger and a decent back-up striker for RvP, I think we’re good to go.
Having already proved we can live with Barcelona, with a couple of good signings we have no reason to fear anyone.
Webb must be upset Newcastle have scored.
Denba Ba must be the bargain of the season. He was signed for free from West Ham. Fabulous finisher. We could with one like him alongside RVP
Phil Dowd got a couple for them, but that was last season, Irish.
Irish – no, they should bring Allan Shearer on loan 🙂
I bet he sends a newcastle player off. probably worth a tenner
Giggs thinks he can get away with anything playing away from home.
Are the geordies singing “you always cheat on your brother”? I can’t quite hear it.
I like that thatch chas, very nice piece of work. Rooneys still an ugly git though.
Giggs should get a yellow for that tackle
Herb
You’re very positive 🙂
GM – brother? What’s that all about?
Chas – 😆 Good one
Evonne – Of Andy Carroll 😆 Newcastle really made the money off that deal. Torres – shite Carroll – shite Ba – great success
carrick is shit £20million dogturd
Herb, whats going on? hahahaha
What happened Diaby? When did he get injured again?
evonne
You don’t know about giggs? they did lift the superinjunction
Ba is a great player. Very cheap if you have his name on your shirt too.
Demba Ba reminds me of a young Lenny Henry.
I love Ba, great player, great name
ArsenalGent Arsenal Gentleman
Sir Alex may be forced to take Howard Webb off at half-time.
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by @80sirishlegend »
Very funny Irish
Terrible refereeing by Webb. But the Plug foul for the non.penalty was right in front of the linesman.
Why didn’t he take responsibility especially as Webb was so far behind the play?
Still MU look poor and have no creativity whatsoever in midfield – why isn’t Modric being limked with them?
CAn’t type – must be bladdered
dwight yorke is a biased (and fucking ugly) c**t
Irish- BA ‘s name on the shirt will cost you a wopping 6 quids. Newcastle got the player for free.
The stats man said BA is the best striker ever to play in premiership because of his goal ratio
Suddenly i become an admirer of Ba.
GM 8:53, very funny. 🙂 I could never understand why Webb often picked as referee for manure match.
Arsenes_Eyes Arsene’s Eyes
Big argument between Howard Webb & Mr Rooney at HT. “Well get in the bloody box then! I can’t give you a penalty on half way!” #MUFC #NUFC
Sod 3rd, we can still win this league, it could be a crazy but great season.
Yorke is an idiot. Why have someone that stupid on tv? His IQ must be like 10 year old.
GM – Arsenal Gentleman is worth a follow, some funny tweets
Hes there for his looks GM
Nike
I’m just cut and pasting gems that Irish finds. I’m quite a twitter novice.
It’s decided then lets rob Ba – if we swapped him with Chamakh would the Geordies notice?
Normally ArseDave writes good stuff but this morning he must have been on the funny cigarettes. Bale no.2 in the world? As was said he is not even the best player at Spurs.
Probably the most bizarre comment ever on AA and we have had some corkers …..
What a plonker Dwight York is. Absolute rubbish from him. “Ferdinand was in front of him”
Come on The Barcodes
Make that the Ba – Codes
2-0 yipee
have that.
nothing quite as good as footy in this world 🙂
Wow. I had heard a lot of good things about Cabaye but no-one said he could do that !!!
Conor_AFC Conor
Man United losing and their most influential player Howard Webb is having a blinder for them. His team mates need to step up.
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by @JamrockRover
What does Webb do now to earn his brown paper package?
Darn it – went to brush my teeth and missed the goal 😆
What a free kick. Fantastic. Come on Newcastle 8 nil will do for more. Wenger has missed a trick. BA and Cabaye are truely the bargains of the season
http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/top-ten/2011-09-14/shock-poll-result-man-uniteds-greatest-ever-player-is%E2%80%A6-howard-webb
http://thefcf.co.uk/2012/01/04/newcastle-united-manchester-united-live/
this is funny
Apparently Tim Howard has scored for Everton….wind assisted
Tim Howard has scored for Everton O_O
Haha, GM,
“Webb points for a throw in by keeping his left arm out at a precise ninety degrees, legs splayed at such a wide angle you would assume he was resting on the stick up his hole.”
Cesc has scored twice for Barca in the first 20 mins
Why would anyone but a masochist want to know that, BR?
Raddy – Are you trying to remind us what we miss. Painful to see him scoring
GM. Cannot imagine how you found that site but the guy is very funny
Sorry …………
Yohann Cabaye was quoted in the French papers this time last year as saying he had been linked with Arsenal for a long time and wanted to play for Monsieur Wenger.
He must have given up. Very skillful player!
I was so delighted that Newcastle are 2 nil up then I had the thought of City or the Spuds lifting the trophy. If it not us I would rather see united win it than those 2. City failing would be very good for football.
Every home crowd is magnificent against Man U when they’re 2-0 up, Wilkins, you moron. Try them at home to Wigan.
GM,
I notice you have been going easy on Manure tonight! Step it up or I will get Charybdis to come on and show how he does it!! 🙂
RA- Philip Auclair talked him up a long time ago. At that time I did not know who he was. Clearly a useful player. Him and BA make newcastle tick
Very much so, Chas, absolutely! 🙂
and Tiote
ladyarse ladyarse
The last time Rooney had some form his hair was still on his arse
8 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by @JamrockRover
Hi GM, Terry,
I just think that at full-strength we’re as good as anyone, and better than most. I just can’t even remember the last time we had a fully fit, injury-free squad.
One for you GiE, do you remember when Man Utd were heading for Div 2 back in 1973-74? Alex Stepney was the club’s penalty taker and was their top scorer with 4? goals for a good few weeks. I was only a kid, but it was so funny. Even funnier when Denis Law scored to send down.
JJ. What is the difference between MU buying the PL and MC?
Rooney, Berbs, Plug all over £30m. Jones, Carrick. Valencia Anderson over £15m. Apart from Giggs and the GK they are all expensive signings much the same as MC.
And Roonet is on £250k a week!
Arsenes_Eyes Arsene’s Eyes
I hear that this evening Howard has scored from open play. Unbelievable. He usually just awards them penalties. #bbcfootball
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Herb. Happy Days.
Hahahahahaah, GM
Jamjam, that is the dilema.
I don’t want the Spuds to get even a sniff of the EPL championship.
I cannot stand those money grubbing Oilies winning either.
I really find it difficult to stomach Sir Red Schnozz.
The Chavs are crap and I cannot stand them either.
Looks like we need to buy a striker and we will have to do it instead! 🙂
Raddy
I’ve just started useing twitter. there is some great banter on there and someone posted a link to that site.
that jones is good er…..
This is a great game of football, I’m really enjoying it. Newcastle have been so good.
Just got much much better – Phil Jones expert at the own goal 🙂
hahahahahahahahahahahahah
Agree Raddy. United are no different but City have been after our players for a while and the wages they offer simply ruined everything. in the past we were able to compete with united for players now it is simply impossible.
GM – I don’t want to be rude, but you must be orgasmic 🙂
That was funny!
ArsenalGent Arsenal Gentleman
The Sports Direct hasn’t been this lively since their Tottenham branch had that ‘party’ in the summer.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
wanted 8 but 3 will do. Lovely
Isn’t it about time Rasp came on and told us that it would have been better if Manyoo had won, as Newcastle are our immediate rivals. 🙂
Herb I was not even a twinkle in my Dad’s eye then, I think my elder brother might just have been!
A depressing fact is that we are 9 points behind this shower
Herb,
I read your first comment tonight and fell out of my armchair!! 🙂
I am thinking of having a brandy myself now!!! 🙄 🙂
This is some good footy
Youi do want to be rude though 😉 evonne
Can’t believe Nani trying to get Tiote off their.
BR, you really don’t know how to enjoy yourself, do you? 🙂
Raddy
We gave them a 12 point start so we’re catching up 🙂
Lindegaard dropped, bring back De Gea.
Loved it.
The downside tho is that the Spuds, if they win their game in hand will go joint second. Bollix.
There is no downside to that result. FACT.
The last 2 nights has shown that if we had not had that shit start we would win this league. Our wait is nearly over. Next season will see the beggining of a new 1930’s style era for Arsenal. Hold on to your hats.
Hold on to your hairpiece. 🙂
For the purposes of clarity — Rasp asked me to make my last comment on his behalf! 🙂
chas. DAmn right. I am absolutely loving this and it could only be bettered by a huge AFC victory over a 9 man Spurs. Can’t wait to hear SAF blame Webb in the post-match,
To top it off my best friend is a mad MU fan and has travelled to St James from Zermatt, interrupting his ski holiday and has tickets for the game at MC on the weekend.
Brilliant !!!
RA-on the other hand if united get sucked in then we will have an extra spot to aim for. because at moment everyone thinks United nailed on for at least 2nd and Spuds for 3rd.. A long way to go and i can’t see why not United dropping to 5th or lower.
Which players were actually missing for United tonight?
From the starting line up I would say only Vidic and Smalling. Suppose you could argue a place for Young instead of Nani or Valencia, but he isn’t an improvement on those two. Not the amazing squad that the press have us believe, eh!?
I’d rather anyone (except the scum, only just) win it than the mancs. Shitty winning it would be hilarious. They could put a counter up like the totally classless redscum.
I was waiting for that Chas hahaha. But ime deadly serious, we are the best equiped going forward. The Arsenal dawn is round the corner and the ghosts of the 30’s are stiring.
Hi RA,
I’m not the doomer people think. When we click, not many sides can live with us. The biggest problem for me is the inexplicable injury-list.
Can you remember a time when we were injury free?
This calls for a schnapps. Night All. Sweet dreams.
Now now FGG don’t go starting scurrilous (spelling?) rumours like that!
Quite right, Herb.
Never doubted you. It’s good to see you pumping us up. 🙂
Our horrendous injury problems and cheapskate players bailing out for money seems to have gone on for season after season.
Every team except the shitty Spuds have lost a game over the Xmas period — there’s no point looking back, but that bloody 2nd half at Fulham is a pity. Still – onwards and upwards!! 🙂
Here’s the ghosts of the 50’s, Terry.
G’night
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=29500
Cheers Chas.
Herb
Everyone has injuries but to lose all 4 full backs is really unlucky. When we get them back I think we’ll give out a few spankings.
RobinC12345 Robin Callan
“Colleen is a slapper, she wears a wonder bra… And when she’s shaggin’ Rooney she thinks of Demba Ba” – Newcastle fans”
Along with many treasured memories of Arsenal, I feel priveliged to have been alive to witness Man Utd getting relegated as we may not see it again,
That’s classic Irish
Happy days Raddy.
Irish – Brilliant!
GiE – As a Gk yourself, I thought it might amuse you that Stepney was their top scorer for a good few weeks.
Apparently Tottenham still owe Rangers £4m for Hutton.
Gooner1886_ cheeky
Steve Kean has just called Sir Alex Ferguson to offer his support
😆
Points total over the last six PL games:
Chelsea: 9
MC: 10
Arsenal: 10
Liverpool: 11
Spuds:11
MU: 12
Puts it all in perspective again.
Herb I hadn’t joined the dots that Stepney was their keeper.
Before my watching era the only GKs I have watched extensively are Banks and Wilson.
Sure does TA altho it can be seen as a missed opportunity to make ground too.
Yes, sorry GiE, it would have made more sense to you had I not omitted that vital point. Do you consider Shilton as good as Banks?
GiE, we made up ground in October and November and yes it would have been great to continue that run in December. But it was not to be for various reasons: injuries of the FB’s, three heavy away-games (MC, AV, Fulham), etc. We can now focus on the second part of the season and with injured players returning and a more managable programme ahead, and the top teams coming to the THOF, we can make further progress. 🙂
TA,,
So, after all they are only stats – so they count for nothing – right?
I am not following you G5: what do you mean?
TA,,
You deride stats from our first 20 games yet you feel that because you throw up stats from the last s1x games are very meaningful- selective reasoning – no less.
G5, yeah you are right – I am not going to bother with this sort of argument with you. It will lead nowhere, as usual.
Such a distance between the times they played and they both had that special something required to be a Goalkeeper as did Wilson.
But I think from what i have seen and read of Banks he is still probably the best English keeper, Seaman a close second.
Off to bed – have to be fit and ready for some laughing at the Manc fans at work at 8am.
Night 😀
MikelArteta08 Arteta Olsson Fans
Shocking performance in fairness…#mufc RT @TheGoonerholic: Breaking news. Howard Webb has been fined two weeks wages by Sir Alex Ferguson.
7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
I understand TA you can be dis- respectfully derisory – but that`s OK.
Not such a big difference GiE, Shilton was Leicester’s Gk in the 1969 FA Cup final, three years after Banks won the WC with England, and three before he kept goal for Stoke in the 1972 Lge Cup final. Tragically Banks lost the sight in one eye when he was involved in a car-crash in October ’72, and his career was finished.
Stoke paid what was then a British record for a Goalkeeper, £240,000 and bought Shilton from Leicester. And he was pivotal to Nottingham Forest’s two EC successes.
I read or heard somewhere, Terry Neill wanted him at Arsenal, but Shilton said he felt intimidated by the thought of living in London.
Bob Wilson has nonorary legendary status being part of the ’70-71 ‘Double-winning team (shouldn’t have bee beaten at his near-post v Liverpool ’71 Cup Final), but always liked him, even as a pundit, and he loves the club too.
Seaman was a top quality Goalkeeper, and another club legend.
And an honourable mention for Jack Kelsey.
Again my youth betrays me as I remember Shilts at Southampton mainly. And obviously for England.
Best GKs I have seen who didn’t play for Arsenal are Southall and Schmeichel.
I keep forgetting I’m getting old GiE, but two good shouts with Southall and Schmeichel. I’d include Buffon in that bracket too.
You being a connoisseur of football, and Goalkeeping in particular GiE, I wasn’t sure how extensive your knowledge is, or whether you had watched any historical clips/matches relating to the subject.
We’ve been generally ok down the years for ‘keepers. Jimmy Rimmer did a decent job for us, as did Pat Jennings, who we bought from Tottenham for £45,000.
Lev yashin and bert troutmann 🙂
TA,
Talk with Rasp as I just sent him a spreadsheet that predictys the final league standings (for all teams) based on the results from the last six games. But then again it’s only stats – right? So who cares?
RickGlanvill Rick Glanvill
Ooh, Phil Jones… like he’s controlled by a 70-year-old with a Wii problem
3 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
got this from a manc blog
January 4, 2012 at 23:04
rat1p says:
today was the day i thought “how united biased is howard webb”, everyone claims it all the time “howard webb loves united.”
in all honesty he was piss poor tonight but please dont get me wrong we didnt lose because of him but if he is supposed to be the best ref in england then the fa has a serious problem.
wankers. No mention of the penalty incedent
Jennings was my first Arsenal keeper watched live so for me I never considered him Spudlike.
I learned from him the art of saving with his feet. And when I met him in M&S I remember how bloody big his hands were and wondered why he didn’t use them more.
From Seaman I learned the art of footwork it really was impeccable the big man would try and be the cleanest player coming off the pitch I’m sure. Also unflappability. He was so calm in everything he did. The one thing I learned from Seaman most that great shot stopping wasn’t enough to be a great keeper. 90% of any great keeper is command of the box and dealing with situations before a shot was possible either through positioning or defence organisation.
We have been tremendously privileged at Arsenal to have not only good keepers but long standing ones.
I was never that keen on Lehmann to temperamental but probably more agile and a better sweeper than Seaman.
In Szczesny I think we have the ultimate package. A calmness beyond his years…ability to organise those in front of him….and a great one on one keeper. Decision making will get better with age and I think I see in him a willingness to improve every game. He also has charisma and a rapport with the fans….essential for any good keeper.
My Dad would always make sure we went to games when a good keeper was playing against us and would make sure I had a good view of the keeper (normally half way up North Bank behind the middle walk way).
I heartily recommend both Wilsons and Banks autobiographies.
Morning all
@ Arsedave
you have got to be joking, Bale? Come off it, he is nowhere near world class yet, way to inconsistent. Look at all the players you are forgetting:
Xavi, fabregas, rooney, RVP, robben, schweistiger (can’t spell his name to save my life), ronaldo, bendtner!
@ GM
love the twitter stuff you posted, very funny stuff. We definently dropped the ball with Ba, he is a very good striker. Where were you on that one Micky?
Evonne…it’s time! time to come back out from under your doona. Just listen to TMHT the title is ours, no need to hide.
I may have a reason for the likes of Ba not arriving, another post in drafts for you Peaches/Rasp I have Blogorhea
Morning Oz. I fear ArseDave has been taking too much of the Scottish air (filled with whiskey fumes obviously) or been listening to TalkSport and Sky too much 🙂
Morning GiE, agreed, that plus the only game of the scum he gets is them vs inter from last season.
If i’m not mistaken is that 3 posts in a day? Your single handedly filling the rocky-void!
Morning Oz
I must admit to watching last night’s pantomime starring Webb and Mancs v Magpies, hillarious 🙂 Cheered me up no end 🙂 Not as much as it cheered GM or Chas, but still, I think I love footy again
I cannot see the ArseDave comment, has it been chopped? anyway, Bale is damaged goods, scumming for too long
https://arsenalarsenal.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics/#comment-110723
Morning Chas 🙂 thank you
On BBC1 News little Chinese genius boy whose parents are pushing to become a dentist answered the presenter’s question who he wants to become : “ARSENAL player!!’ 🙂 Truly genius
Bale 2nd best in the world, after Messi??!!! FFS that is bleshemy, sorry ArseDave but you are insane
evonne. Good to see you back to your chirpy self.
Good discussion about GK’s. Being an old(er) chap I have seen all the players mentioned (Yashin only on film) and I believe Schmeichel was the best. What made the difference was his size – the man is a giant. To be as agile and fast as him and yet weigh in at 17+ stone is astonishing.
But Szczesny is of a similar build and has all it takes to become an AFC superstar
Morning all, thanks to the events at the Cheapo Chav Sports Gear Stadium last night one can grin a bit; the calamitous o.g. by P Jones(dodged a bullet there methinks) being the encore after the 2 good Ba(r codes) goals.
There are few things in life that cheer the hearts of all right thinking, fair minded decent human beings than the toppling of a dictator or the defeat of a ManUre side led by the Prince of Darkness himself, Lord Fergie of Whiskey Barrell.
Even his acolytes at MotD are beginning to doubt the “Man U come on strong in the second half of the season” cliche.
The reverberations of this defeat will be felt in heartlands of ManUre support, from Godalming to Lowestoft, from Winnipeg to Jakarta.
Glory Hunting plastics the world over weeping into their Wayne Rooney breakfast bowls.
Hahahahahahahahahaha !
Schmeichel was a fantastic GK – no doot aboot that!! 🙂
Think everyone is being a bit harsh on Arsedave.
He was waxing lyrical about Bale, it is true, but “2nd best in the world” was just an expression.
I too think Bale is becoming one hell of a player — world No.2? – No. But a very good player.
Morning Evonne, sorry Arsedave is right.
Bale is the 2nd best in the world……….
……the second best(monkey) after Urko. 🙂
I don’t think Arsedave will give a monkey’s what people think since he clearly qualified his statement with ( in my opinion). 🙂
Raddy 🙂 I am not sure I will watch live Arsenal games though, the old ticker complained after the Fulham game
Morning RA – somehow I don’t rate Bale at all. He is very strong, physical and extremely fast, but something is missing, that stroke of brilliance that sets Messi apart from others. Bale will run very fast, overtake everyone and shoot with great power,no finesse
Morning all, prepare yourselves for a ‘Total’….
….. New post ………
Hi Evonne, 🙂
I totally agree with you.
Bale is certainly no Messi, Ronaldo etc, he is exactly as you describe – fast, great shot and physically strong.
But he does not have a trick, or a swerve, or as you say – finesse – bit like Theo really, (oops) however he is a good player for the EPL.
In my opinion! Of course.
(Chas, I would give a monkeys if you try to ridicule my opinion!) — just saying. 👿
The best keeper I have seen is without doubt Peter Schemichel, that man was massive, agile and he won the Mancs many games.
Talking of goalkeepers, have you all seen Tim Howard’s goal against Bolton last night? Wind assisted, but still an amazing goal!
BBTorch 2 en…
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