The visit of the sky blues of Abu Dhabi to The Home of Football and the subsequent infiltration of this very blog the day after got me thinking….
It is often stated that the top clubs are set to align themselves with various sponsors (whether related or otherwise) to ensure that they do not get caught by the FFP regulations. That this can be achieved within the regulations is yet to be seen.
Additionally there is another issue that has not been settled. The FFP regulations will prevent those that fall foul of the regulations from competing in the UEFA Champions League, the first measurement period is 2011-2013, from then on it will be three year rolling aggregates. The first competitions clubs can be excluded from are the 2013-14 Champions and Europa League. Here comes the rub….the current agreement between UEFA and ECA (the European Club Association) expires at the end of 2014. Therefore in order to keep Europe’s biggest clubs under their banner UEFA may be forced to tread very softly over FFP enforcement or risk the big guns taking their toys away.
So this moment in time that us Arsenal fans are waiting for and the Board promises us is going to level the playing field is already here, and does anyone see it really working yet? If it is being taken seriously by the top clubs it should really be hurting those teams who are spending the owners money.
So this is the problem, what is the solution? An extension of the homegrown rule could actually help us, and could in light of the above be a more gentle approach by UEFA to addressing concerns of financial doping whilst also forcing the clubs to work for the good of the game.
Currently the Homegrown rule in the Premier League states that 8 of the 25 man squad (over 21) have to have been registered for three years domestically at a club in England or Wales. What if this was extended? What if not only did they have to be registered in England or Wales but actually registered at the club for which they now play and that the maximum number of non home grown was lowered to 13 and of the remaining half had to be home grown at the club.
Surely the clubs have a duty to the game to put emphasis on developing young talent that will succeed.
Ok I admit my suggestions are biased to the current Arsenal setup. Of the current squad Walcott, Djourou, Song, Szczesny, Wilshere, Frimpong, Coquelin, Gibbs, Miquel, Oxlade-Chamberlain (will be three years by the time he is 21) would all be Club homegrown. Then Rambo as homegrown under old rules.
I know Arsène isn’t a fan of the homegrown rules but I think he has overseen the development of a Youth Academy that could flourish under a stricter regime.
So what’s it for you, FFP or a Europe wide Homegrown Rule that will level the playing field?
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Sorry, wrong blog !
Morning all and an interesting question you pose GiE.
The ultimate leveller is the wage cap, more equalizing than even a %’ge restriction of wages over total football related income and the septics have had that in operation for years. I’m not really sure how well that is working in the NFL (or is it NBA who it was, or both ?)
I get the feeling the wage cap works best if their is a “draft” system for talent from lower leagues in operation for all top tier clubs; this seems to work best(not necessarily well) with the franchise system.
I think FFP wold work well if only enforcing it strictly didn’t lead to a conflict of interest for Bladder and his cronies, which it will if the big spenders and debt ridden clubs(Abu Dhabi FC and Bankruptalona respectively as examples)threaten to breakaway to form a super league.
Of course how Abu Dhabi hope to consider themselves part of the elite having only one 1 trophy in the last 35 years I don’t know.
No doubt the requisite number of petrodollars slipped into Bladders sweaty palm will get them admission into the big boys league.
cheers for the explanations GiE.
Hopefully all these loop holes can be sorted out. It just seems as though teams like Man city will get away with whatever they want, with minimal backlash.
Interesting, GIE.
The financial stuff is all a bit beyond me, but the cynic in me says that FFP has no chance of succeeding because money always wins out. The thought of Barcelona being excluded from the CL is just laughable.
Wouldn’t wage caps be sidestepped using image rights or some such malarkey?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/8264147/How-image-rights-allow-footballers-to-skip-past-the-taxman.html
Hi GiE, thanks for a fine post about an important topic 🙂
Like you, I have little trust in FFP. The only hope I have is Platini, who seems very keen to make it work, but he does face an almost impossible task. The homegrown rule/principle makes sense from a sporting point a view, and that’s why Wenger has been investing time and the club’s money in it so much. Just look how the cream keeps rising quicker to the top than the mega-rich clubs are able to snatch it away: Fabregas and Nasri gone, but now there is Ramsey and Wilshere, with Coquelin and Frimmpong and the Ox right ‘beneath’ them.
I also agree with your statement: ‘Surely the clubs have a duty to the game to put emphasis on developing young talent that will succeed.’ So, yes there is a moral duty and it makes sporting sense, but I would not want to see it become a rule-with-punishments-attached by UEFA.
So for me, it has to be either FFP that will hold the Chelseas, Man Cities, PSGs, Mallagas etc at bay, or we have to keep banking on the principle that class cannot be bought and will typically outlive the onslaughts of mega cash injections by those who have such big gaping holes in their vast, insatiable egos.
By the way, Newsnow is showing links to two posts,
“Is FFP the solution UEFA?” and also
“UEFAs FFP Conundrum”
The former has comments on, the latter none.
Fine post GiE, but I’m afraid your revelation of the timing of the FFP rules and the renegotiating of the ECA/UEFA deal only reinforces my cynicism about the whole thing.
The best thing for football this year would be for Abu Dhabi City to win nothing.
GiE – at long last the FFP is beginning to make sense to me, thank you GiE!!
Rocky – is not going to happen
Chas – good spot!
Morning GIE, 🙂
Interesting a timely Post.
There is a temptation to reduce the FFP rules to a simple ‘will it work, or won’t it – yes or no?’
You mention one area that may well distort the application of the FFP rules, in that the ‘big clubs’ who are represented by the ECA are due to renew their compact with UEFA in 2014 – or not.
UEFA as an institution will start to disintegrate if they lose the glamour and the income generated by these giant clubs that conveniently lay their golden egg should they decide to pull out and set up their own leagues and governing bodies.
So what are some of the key factors involved?
1) Commercial income!!
What is good for the TV wallahs, is commercially good for the clubs, is also good for UEFA’s coffers. Therefore, from UEFA’s standpoint the corollary is that — Keeping the clubs in the association is good —– BUT losing the ‘biggest’ clubs = reduced or no TV deal = No UEFA honeypot.
2) The clubs, of course, know the above.
However, would a break away league of the top ‘big’ clubs be self sustaining?
Would we (the fans) very soon get bored with an elite few clubs playing against each other over and over again, while matches are spread throughout Europe? Probably.
In any event the ‘big’ clubs show little allegiance to each other and leaving UEFA would mean leaving their own FA’s too.
3) UEFA knows the above.
4) Would UEFA, in the absence of any break away, discipline – that is ban – a big, wealthy club?
Unlikely, because the chances are high that such a club would commence costly legal action, which could take years to resolve.
5) What was the driver behind the FFP from Frenchman Platini? Was it because, until recently, no French club was considered ‘big’ – and the hated English were too powerful financially?
Probably.
6) Was Platini playing to his French powerbase and the ‘smaller’ clubs and their respective national associations, while he was trying to foster support for his campaign to become the next FIFA president?
Probably.
7) Now there is at least one big money club in French France, (Paris St Germain) has his desire for change altered?
Probably.
8) He seems to be a ‘shoe in’ for the FIFA presidency when Bladder leaves in four years time – about the same time the FFP rules will really start to bite, if it is properly implemented.
Will he still feel inclined to take on the biggest, wealthiest clubs at the time he is ordinated as the French President of the World — sorry, of FIFA?
Very unlikely.
So, do you think the FFP rules will be properly implemented?
Well it is a question which appears to require a very simple “yes” or “no” answer — but there is more to the question than is immediately obvious! So vote carefully mon amis.
And good luck with that. 🙂
FFP won’t work. Fifa and Uefa are corrupt organisations so why would it? Shitty have already sold naming rights to a stadium that they don’t even own and are set to announce a massive shirt deal. Both of these deals are with their own owners. The Fa have a “fit and proper” rula and that is meaningless. A salary cap couldn’t work either.
The FPP rules as they stand can’t be properly implemented because it still allows clubs to basically put what they want down under “Expenses”, i.e. stadium improvements, youth development, etc.
On another quick note, thanks for the welcome last week when I first posted (from Bingham and Red Arse I seem to remember).
Brilliant stuff GiE.
What people must understand about FFP is that it is a “Compromise”. The politics are complicated but FFP is very well thought out and has the backing of all the major clubs. I note what Redders says about a possible breakaway but even if that were to happen the clubs would still implement FFP. My reasoning is as follows.
Madrid, Barca & Utd generate enough turnover and profits to maintain there current business models, they are in favour big time.
City and Chelsea have accepted the compromise that FFP gives in terms of the rolling out process stated by GiE and the rules which state that FFP does not apply to capital projects e.g. new stadiums or youth projects. Even more crucialy, and for me the most important sentance within the rules, UEFA will take into account profit and loss trends, in other words if Say City do not meet the criteria within six years, if there loses show that they will eventuly get there they will be given more time. (Please remember that city and the other suger daddies will be working flat out to increase there brand vaule over the next few years to meet the rules)
Arsenal and the other big clubs of course are all in favour. It will help to even the playing field with the suger daddies and in theory will keep clubs solvent and maintain some form of cap on wages.
All in all this is very good for our club and people will soon start seeing tangible benefits from FFP. Please dont dismiss FFP as some sort of gimick, it will become an overriding principle in which European Clubs conduct there finances for the future.
I would just like to add one more point here. if for some reason FFP runs into trouble , UEFA and the big clubs know that the politicians will soon intervene. Before FFP presure was mounting on the fooball authorities both in the UK parliment and even more importantly in Brussels that they would step in to avoid clubs going bust. in other words if football cant get there house in order politicians will do it for them.
Hi TerryM, 🙂
I hope you are right, but as you mentioned, the European and World governing bodies are deeply embedded in politics and the all pervasive chicanery that implies.
The better part of me would like to be positive thinking like you, and it is to your credit, sir!! 🙂
Greetings Redders,
I certainly dont trust politicians, but what i can see is that only the suger daddy clubs have something to gain from it failing. If you put them up against the combined weight of all the other clubs they will find themselves isolated and cut off. FFP is a reality, and they know it.
Afternoon all, I wasn’t aware I was filling the large shoes of Rocky for a monday Morning post. Apologies for being serious post for Monday morning which I know is unpleasant enough without trying to wrap our heads around UEFA politics.
Although it seems fellow accountants have used it as a Monday morning brain warm up 🙂 and have given all the what ifs I haven’t gone through in the post.
In truth my aim was not to highlight problems or to raise the question of whether the FFP is worthwhile but rather from a selfish point of view look for a better solution, which homegrown would definitely be one.
I’m sure I am not the only football supporter who would like a return to days when teams could by vision and courage of management develop and grow into a force in the big leagues. I know it has not happened that often but wouldn’t it be better if every season we started with a fresh slate and all teams could challenge for the top domestic honours not just the privileged few?
Totally agree GiE. The problem with homegrown players rules etc is that, unlike FFP, the big clubs are opposed to it so i just cant see it happening.Wish it would though.
Fairly put GIE.
My main reservation about changing the composition of the existing squad rules, to increase the number of ‘home growns’, is that the buying pressure would simply inflate the fees the wealthy clubs would pay for the kids, and that would be unhealthy for all, with unproven young guys paid huge salaries before they had even kicked a ball in earnest.
Actually, that happens already I suppose. 😦
Imagine the transfer fee and salary the Ox would command. Worth every penny I think! 🙂
Nice review, big guy!
A thought provoking post GIE and some very educational comments, I have gone from hoping that the FFP will work to now thinking it doesn’t have a prayer.
Incidentally, GIE, are you implying the Rock has big feet to fill those big shoes? What are we talking about here — size 17 UK? Bigger? 🙂
For me, I would love a return to the days when the top league was unpredictable. What an era when the following won the title; 68 City, 69 Leeds, 70 Everton, 71 Us, 72 Derby, 73 Liverpool 74 Leeds, 75 Derby, 76 Liverpool then unfortunately two long eras of domination by Liverpool and Man Utd.
But it would be great to have say 10 clubs on a level playing field at the start of the season. With Arsene in charge on a level playing field I know who I would back.
LB, Why do you think that it wont work?
GIE. Thought provoking.
At first I believed FFP would just be a sop, but having read through today’s comments I can see that there is reason to hope an even playing field can be developed.
In particular the actions of the clubs without sugar daddy’s.
As to the homegrown policy – great idea but I cannot see it being expanded beyond the recent rules.
ADave. As long as the miscreants from N17 were not one of those clubs, I would agree.
Hey hey fellow Gooners, saw your comment the other day RA. I e-mailed Peaches and told her I didn’t know if I’d post again, because Manchester City were ruining my enjoyment of football, sadly that hasn’t changed.
As most of you know I’m not an accountant, and definitely not qualified to comment on club finances, but this might be relevant. In 1992, professional footballers in Division 1 (now Prem), were earning six times more than the national average wage. Today they earn four hundred times more than the national average. And 65% of all money made in football goes straight into the players pockets.
Maybe I’m alone in thinking football has become a far less enjoyable passion.
Great recovery, and what a result at Chelsea! RvP has been immense. We’re still worryingly quite a bit behind Tottenham though. Huge game on the 18th away at City!
Hi Herb, 🙂
Great to hear from you. Totally agree with you about the modern era wages being distorted by the fat cat clubs.
I must say that as far as Arsenal are concerned I am a deeply committed fan first, and an accountant way down the line. 🙂
I understand what you are saying, and I am often irritated about the same things you are.
I find popping over to AA to chat with you and the other guys just helps to let off steam or have a laugh!! 🙂
ArseDave, 🙂
Like you I would love the Premiership to have a randomness to the eventual winners every year.
But as you point out, the trend for one or two clubs to get a grip on the summit, so to speak, started to happen many years ago, altho perhaps not to the same extent as we find currently.
A return to the old days would be a great product of the FFP if it happens to bite!
Cheers RA, the quality of writing from Bloggers on here always makes AA essential reading. And the new-comers (even newer than myself), have maintained the excellent standard.
Herb,
I hate that foreign petro dollars are ruining our game, I hate that AFC were the first club to field 11 foreigners, I hate that the wages have become so obscene, I hate WAG’s and I hate the miserable celebrity life of JT etc, BUT what I haven’t lost is my love of Football and in particular, The Arsenal. A goal like our 3rd on Saturday reminds me that whatever happens off the pitch it is what happens on it that I love.
OK, we have less chance of winning silverware with the influx of oil money but that isn’t why I support the Arsenal and wasnt why I started to support them all those years ago.
Ooops …. to carry on. Your contribution to AA is important and it would be terribly sad if an aberration like MC was to stop us enjoying the game you and I love
Nice to see you again Herb. WB 🙂
FFP will be wonderful if it can be implemented correctly, but I fear clubs such as MoneyChester City, Barcelona and Real Madrid will find a way around it, they always do. So all in all, it will probably not affect them one bit, more is the pity.
Plus the fact I do not truse UEFA as far as I could throw Sepp Blatter! 🙂
GiE,
Well done on a serious post. After reading the comments, my brain hurts !. For you Academic`s and Accountant`s it`s a breeze through the park. Moi understanding the full FFP, More chance of me winning the Iranian version of “spot the ball”, which is a stadium full of screaming burka clad woman football fans and one Burka clad European Atheist male, It`s called “spot the Infidel”, normally it would be easy, he would be the one not doing the “Movember” charity thing, but they make it hard and cover the face aswell.
Sorry got carried away. I`m going to take Platini at his word and I expect FFP to work, simply because UEFA have brought it in to do a job and why should I distrust them.
However, I may change my mind if i see Platini exit an Arab Palace, bowlegged after a serious “felching” session, where a “Fist full of Dollars” have been rammed up a tube.
Very interesting conundrum, Weill done GIE need to think about this.
How do we feel Bendy will do working for Oneil, will AW recall him as they dislike each other so much.
Hi Raddy,
I agree with all your sentiments, and if supporting a club was about winning trophies I’d have done what most of my school mates did and support Liverpool! There’s something special about supporting The Arsenal, always has been, always will be.
The only real sanction that UEFA can apply to a club failing to meet the financial targets is banning from the Champions League. This sanction will never be implemented, any footballer playing for an excluded club can sue under restriction of trade regulations. That is they will say that by their club being exclude their earning potential has been reduced.
UEFA will not want to get involved in lengthy and costly litigation, which could well turn into a class action, if the entire squad of an excluded club decided to go to court.
Platini is grandstanding in order to drum up support for his campaign to succeed Blatter and get his snout in a bigger and richer trough.
After reading the comments just a few more points oN. FFP.
Barca and Madrid want FFP, it benefits them.
Man City argue there sponsership deals are at fair vaule because it takes into account expected future earnings and brand vaule. This move by City is done in expectancy of breaking even within several years…in other words they are planning for FFP
Chelsea are planning for FFP, hence there aim to move into a new stadium to double there match day revenue.
Clubs like liverpool and Spurs know the implications of FFP and will go all out to procure new stadiums
The days of massive net outlays on players with suger daddy money ended with Citys and Chelsea outlays this summer.
The point i am making is that FFP is already working because all clubs are formulating strategies to comply within FFP parameters and be relativly self sufficent within several years
My final point is this. I am not naive to think there are no grey areas within FFP or that some clubs will not push the limits of the rules. However make no mistake, instutions that have turnovers of hundred of millions of pounds do not formulate strategies based on a whim. If you read between the lines, Clubs are preparing for FFP.
Cant stop watching the 3rd goal, tippy tappy at it`s best, surprised MOTD didn`t make more of a fuss about it.
Well done Terry, you have given me hope with your explanation and I`m with you, so the future looks bright ! :8:
Hi Cornwall,
The futures always bright if your a gooner.
8: bright future needs shades !
I just ran a quick analysis showing how many different teams have won either the old 1st Div or the PL within ten year periods.
Here are the results.
1889-1898=5
1899-1908=7
1909-1922=9
1923-1932=6
1933-1949=6
1950-1959=6
1960-1969=8
1970-1979=6
1980-1989=4
1990-1999=5
2000-2009=3
2010-2011=2
From 1992-2011 there have only been 4 teams, however it is likely that there will 3 different teams in the past 3 years, the last time that occurred was from 1990-1993 when there were 4 different teams.
8) Thats better ,couldn`t find them. 🙂
Thanks GM and Raddy, when everything clicks we still play the best football in the world. Nice to see Gervinho get on the score-sheet. Isn’t his the best parting since Moses parted the Red Sea?
GLIC, wassup wiv the :8 ??
Hello Herb, welcome back
Or was it :8) ??
GLiC @ your 2.02 – it’s because they were rhapsodising about a 3 nil home win by the Spuds against a team playing with 10 men for 3/4’s of the game.
Ah bless, the Spuds have a 2 month spell where they have done better than us(but only played one of the big teams I might add) and they are being hailed as Barca, 70’s Ajax, 80s and 90s Madrid and Brasil all rolled into one.
Get a grip MotD !
Thanks Evonne, there’s a pleasant surprise.
Given that Wenger has announced the squad how about this for a starting 11?
Flappy
Djourou, The Squid, Vermaelen, Santos
Yossi, Rosicky, Frimmers,
OxoChamberpot Chamakh Park
Assuming we are still 4-3-3
Good post Mr Exile, and on a very important topic.
I have little to add to what Terry has already said, and said very well. FFP is easily dismissed, and God knows, it has plenty of imperfections (starting with the long lead-in period), but it represents a very good start for the introduction of sanity to that maddest of madhouses, football finance. The detailed work that Deloitte put into drafting the FFP system is quality stuff – pretty much everything that’s needed is in the documents, which set out a very detailed regime. But inevitably, it’s all about how it is put into force, inclduing the application of punishments.
UEFA (for my books, far cleaner than FIFA, and, while not perfect, shouldn’t be spoken of in the same breath as its outrageously corrupt global counterpart) will need to take a tough stand on some things. E.g., the deals Mansour City has with various other Abu Dhabi state-owned entities, including Etihad Airlines. The reality of those “deals” (as if there were any serious negotiation involved….) is clear, they are not commercial deals at all, but ways of pumping money into the football club so as to try to get around the FFP Regs. Everyone knew someone would try this trick, and there’s little surprise that it’s Shitty. There are provisions in the FFP Regs covering such close transactions, so that they would be excluded from bona fide revenue, but UEFA need to be robust in classifying those commercial deals properly, while at the same time making sure they aren’t seen as treating MCFC in an arbitrary way.
Then there is the question of being on a track to profitability. UEFA has enough discretion to be able to accept clubs in who breach the letter of the law as regards allowable losses (an aggregate loss of €45m from 2010-11 to 2012-2013), and one of the factors that UEFA can take into account in using their discretion is the club’s profitbality trend – so, if the club has lost more than €45m in the previous three seasons but is on an improving path, it may get the benefit of the doubt. But given that City have just announced a one-year loss of about €230m (i.e., five times the allowable loss for three years incurred in just one year), I can’t see that that’s going to help City much. Their main hope, and what I assume they will be planning on, is a combination of being able to get the “commercial” deals signed off and increasing the club’s revenue base quickly enough to catch up with its ridiculous cost base. Will they be able to do that in two years? Can’t see it, but we’ll see.
And the final area where we’ll be depending on UEFA having the balls to live up to their word is in enforcement. Will they really exclude a rich, powerful club from the CL and Europa League for failing to balance its books? Who knows. But as others have said, FFP has been sought not only (or even mainly) by fans, observers, national politicians or small clubs, it’s been requested by the big clubs themselves. City and PSG and Malaga and Anzhi Makhachkala may be the current splurge merchants, but the likes of Barca, United, Milan and Bayern want this to work – after all, they are the clubs with the biggest fanbases, and who can therefore benefit the most from the financial discipline of FFP. They won’t want to see FFP fall on its face, they’ll be pressing for enforcement.
Alongside all of this, as others have said, City will be free to have the Abu Dhabi Government pump whatever it likes into capital projects like the stadium and the training ground, and into youth development. FFP is all about breaking even on revenue, not on capital projects. We may well see the battle for youth players taken to new and extravagant heights by City. That could end up being much harder for us to keep up with than paying senior players’ salaries and transfer fees.
Very informative write up GiE. Many thanks.
Increasing home grown quotas gets my vote.
FFP is a brilliant idea, but I fear that the clubs simply have too much power for it to be truly effective.
Sharkey, the home grown quota could work if there was a cap on the number of playing staff allowed – that way it would stop Man Shitty from buying up every eligible youngster.
Hi RA,
I was trying to get shades on the smiley face, got there in the end. 8)
With Wilshere and Diaby injured, I assume Eastmond is just making up the numbers for the Olympiakos game, but it is a bit perplexing to see the squad include a player who is clearly not going to make the grade and who got shipped back from loan to Millwall without much to report.
After reading 26`s great comment , it`s obvious, there really is some formidible brainpower on AA, with the likes of RA, 26 ,GiE, Terry the Loon and other`s( to whom I`m sorry if you were not mentioned ). It brings me to the conclusion, our boy`s should be running The Arsenal and what the F**k am I doing on here !.
I do have one small point/question though. If all the Big players, Us,Manu,Barca,Real,Bayern and Milan are all for the FFP and will all comply to the standards set and wont be punished, why would we worry if the likes of Mansour City, PSG,Malaga and Anzhi got their Butts kicked out of the CL ( if they failed to comply) and decided to breakaway, what are they going to form ? La Diesel Liga !
School trip to Greece – AW sent a very young squad to face Olympiakos. Hm, I am always worried about the frigile confidence of those young men. I am sure that the Greek team will throw everything at them
Great comments 26.
Exactly Cornwall. Maybe Chelsea and City can play each other in the Rich mans breakaway Cup.
The main danger to FFP is not the rules themselves, or even the determination of fair vaule to things like sponserships, the problem is Citys political power. Something to ponder, Man City, relative nobodies, have more 3rd party sponsers than Barca and Man Utd combined, starnge that isn’t it.
Hi Evonne,
Just to let you know ive sent an email with a future post to Peaches.
Terry – oooohh, how good of you!! Peaches is overwhelmed by the kindness of the AA bloggers, thank you on her behalf!!
Terry , Is it , Da Mancini Code , you`ve been promising ? 😯
Now look here, 26, if I did not already know you are a lawyer man, your comment at 4:01 would have given you away.
You started with, “I have little to add to what Terry has already said”, and then commence to write the blog equivalent of War and Peace.
That is the lawyerly version of a dentist saying, “This won’t hurt”, forgetting to add that important little word “me”.
If I may, I would like to respond equally briefly to your esteemed remarks. 🙂
You certainly write with authority and gravitas on the subject of FFP, and, altho’ fervently agreeing in principle with the aims of that legislation, you have succinctly outlined the many loopholes and mentioned other caveats that will/might enable the likes of ManCiteh and other miscreants to avoid due punishment.
TerryM has admirably made it clear that he has little doubt about the FFP and its administration, whereas, overall, you seem to be agreeing, in principle, with those of us who laud the FFP regs, but who still have misgivings about the application of those rules which are so dependent for their efficacy upon their strict judicial implementation by the UEFA authorities. Failing that, I cannot see anything other than a typical “Euro Zone” type fudge and political cock up ensuing.
Naturally, I am delighted that in your penultimate sentence, you are implying agreement with my small observation regarding the likely impact of rocketing costs upon the ‘young player’ market, altho’ I was, strictly speaking, referring to my doubts over GIE’s hopes for a change in the Home Grown squad rules.
There now, I have been the epitome of brevity — just like you, my lord! 🙂
Cornwall, afraid not, ime still working out how to write that without driving people insane.
Redders, hahahahhahahahha.
I’ve read a lot of articles, blog posts and comments from fellow readers on the possible impact of the financial fair play initiative and it seems many people believe the threat of a break away league is credible. I don’t. Who would do the breaking away? Of the biggest clubs in European club football, how many are in serious danger of falling foul of FFP regulations? Definitely none of Arsenal, Manchester United, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich. I don’t know much about the Italian clubs but between them these clubs I listed are a large part of the appeal of European club football. What advantage will it be to them to pull out? Why should we think there is more money to be made in playing a few matches in a season with the same old clubs than a regular 38-match season. If they pull out of UEFA, they by default pull out of their respective FAs. Someone (Shankly?)once said that the League was the bread and butter of football (paraphrase). I believe this is true even in regards to the finances of the game. Fans of clubs in the next tier, the Tottenhams, the Evertons, Aston Villas would not be so interested in the proposed Super League and would put their money where their mouth is. They wouldn’t pay to subscribe fot TV packages for the SL. The larger audiences would still be in the domestic leagues Europe-wide. Advertisers follow audiences, so at least in Europe, the domestic championships and whatever is left of UEFA’s club competitions would still trump the Super League. I would concede that in the overseas market – Africa, Asia, the Americas – the SL might have a stronger showing, but would still have to compete with UEFA-organized competitions. In summary, I think the finances preclude any imminent formation of a break away league. Mind, I’m not saying FFP will work or not, there are so many factors known and unknown to us fans that will determine its effectiveness, not least corporate corruption, but I strongly believe an European SL is not a credible threat.
GLIC,
Can I assure you that I am not worthy of being included in any exalted group that includes GIE, 26M or TerryM.
Can I also opine, that you are being far too modest about your own intellectual capacity, because anyone capable of the exquisitely funny and pertinent comments, for which you are renowned, could not do so without a formidable cerebral ability. 🙂
Well reasoned Ifedayo.
Oy Cornwall, whats happening with the Spud Stalker? Have you managed to avoid her perpetual motion? On a serious note, theres a club in the West End which caters for skinny men who like “large” women. ended up there one night several years ago with a mate who was into that kind of thing. Went in there all suited and booted and came out looking like like i had been 12 rounds with Mike Tyson.
With respect to the lawyers, accountants and generally intelligent people on here. Money usually finds a way around all the rules. Look at Phillip Green’s tax bill. FFP won’t work. Why would they want to stop the Arabs throwing money at them? Who are Barca’s shirt sponsors now? Why did Pep Guardiola back the Qatar WC bid?
Your cynicism is quite understandable, GM. The integrity of the majority of the population can be very flexible when confronted with big bucks!!
Not me, obviously! 🙂
GM,
Your right, thats why it will have a big impact. If you were in competition with many other bussiness and your costs were unsustainable you would welcome an agrrement to keep them down. All the big clubs are in favour of FFP, only the suger daddy clubs are against.
I’d really like it to work as we’ve been gearing up for it.
@RA: That’s the kindest slagging I’ve had in ages! 🙂
@GM: Completely see where you’re coming from, and in a lot of ways youre right, but as Terry said, FFP is already having an impact, it’s already affecting the way clubs, including the sugar daddy dependents, behave. Yes, they may have legions of accountants, lawyers, consultants and philosophers working on how to get round the rules, but they are also moderating their behaviour – i.e., they’re hedging their bets.
@Ifedayo: You may be right about pressure for a breakaway emerging from tensions over FFP etc, but there are lots of pressures at play here. I think, for example, that the increasingly farcical situation in Spanish football, which is taking one of world football’s greatest leagues and morphing it into the SPL could prompt movement. I’m not saying there will definitely be a breakaway, but it’s a very complex situation, and what the European economy is going through only makes football’s future more uncertain. Anything’s possible.
TerryM,
Not that I would wish to disagree with you, I think it is all too easy to concentrate on the ‘big’ clubs, because we see them as our natural competitors, but I cannot help but feel that these FFP regs will seriously impact on many of the so called ‘smaller’ clubs in the Premiership, who have apparently lived well beyond their means.
Changes in their funding could have the effect of seriously weakening the league competitiveness.
I must issue a disclaimer here because I have nothing to support that belief other than hearsay about the financial instability of many of these clubs who seem to rely on the beneficence and goodwill of wealthy chairmen and so forth.
26, 🙂
I would never ‘slag’ you, but it is so much more fun for me if I can get you out to play!! 🙂
Sadly, you have resurfaced just as I am departing. Hopefully, you will come out to play, again, tomorrow.
RA,
Your too modest by far !
Terry , The “Planet” has put her house up for sale and will be moving to another Solar System, The Bounds Green System I think, looking for a Budgie smuggling punch drunk Accountant !.
The other day she was wearing a Mini skirt( more of a large yurt, I could see nomads wrestling with her curtains) and I could not help notice she had some tinsel dangling between her legs, I was embarrassed to point It out , she said she had replaced the string on her Tampon with It, just for the Christmas Period !
If Phillip Greene wasn’t able to have such a low tax bill he wouldn’t pay any tax at all in the UK, after all he doesn’t have to live here. The choice seems simple to me, either the Revenue gets paid what might seem like a small amount of tax from Phillip Greene or it gets no tax at all.
Herb – I spent many miserable moments thinking about ‘our past’. Let’s put it behind us, shall we ? 🙂
GM is probably right. The footballing associations as well as UK government are doing extremely well out of the petrol dollar and russian rubels being spent on footy in this country and they probably prefer that it was not invested elsewehre.
UEFA and FA might not want to rock the boat too hard for the sake of poorer clubs. There could also be some pressure from the top (political)
I wonder what was the tax for Shitty last year? Could we get hold of such info?
LB – quick question – is your arse red? I seem to remember that last time you went on a cycling trip you came back with purple backside 🙂 How was Hertfordshire yesterday ?
Redders, small clubs will benefit, remember FFP says past misdemeanours are forgiven so in theory they reduce there costs so will there natural competitors. I know what you mean though, if FFP was bought in domesticly it opens up a whole new can of worms.
Cornwall, as we speak ime drawing my curtains and reinforcing all the locks on my doors.
Evonne, No Tax for City, they make hugh losses.
I don’t think anyone feels great after a heated exchange Evonne, and I know like the rest of us on here, you’re a committed Gooner, and that’s good enough.
And Peaches is a legend, so if you’re a bezzy mate of hers you can’t be that bad!
Herb – ha ha ha 🙂 We have to concentrate our efforts on hating spuds and mancs 🙂
Anyone got any inside info on Podolski? I hope it goes through, that would be a signing of real intent.
Quite right Evonne (sorry, still can’t do them smiley’s!).
How`s Peaches today ?, hope your feeling better !.
I see on Arsenal .com, online poll, Zorro got Man of the match with I think 33%. I had to laugh as Arshavin got himself 1%. 🙂
Terry – what about tax on players’ wages? That’s a substantial amount, isn’t it?
Off home. See you later 🙂
Evonne, Yes thats true,13.2% employers N.I, but the way players get paid these days is complex so the effective rate of tax is a lot less.
Players are very clever with their contracts…..scrap that agents/lawyers and accountants are very clever with their contracts.
For example when I audited a PL club they signed a player from another club in another city.
He was entitled to tax free moving incentive. Most players used that to get a house and pay removal costs etc this guy used it to pay for a lease car and all fuel costs and put a bill in every month.
GiE – hold on a second here guys – are you telling me that this country in not benefiting from a multi billion pound industry that is football? Cannot be right, surely?
GiE or Terry,
I always thought that If a player was at a club for Ten years, they received a Testomonial. Would you know if there are conditions on Testimonials, Age etc ?, probably a silly remark but Jack has been here ten years, also I wonder If It helps with keeping RVP, as just a couple years extention to his current contract will entitle him to a possible 60,000 crowd testamonial game which adds to his earnings.
Cornwall, testimonials are like a convention and the income is taxable.
Evonne, GiE is correct. The 2 big things regarding players remunaration at the moment is payment in loan form and image rights. Both nice ways to avoid tax, though HMRC is contesting both.
Evonne,
Rich people never pay much tax.
Why should they when they can afford to pay people to ensure they don’t?
True Chas, the more rich and powerful you become the more tax avoidance is possible.
Ideally when sugar daddies get involved in football, what should happen is that match tickets become subsidised since the revenue from supporters becomes irrelevant.
What actually happens is complete and utter w*nkers like John Terry and $amir Na$ri become overnight multi-millionaires.
Sorry, I meant to say, ideally sugar daddies should not get involved in football. 🙂
GLIC most recent testimonials have resulted in the player giving most of the money away to charity. Generally its ten years as a pro contract.
I think the charity trend was started by ex Arsenal Niall Quinn (when at Sunderland).
Strange to think Giggs has just completed his 20th Anniversary of his first pro contract at United, he had his first testimonial back in 2001. We could have a similar situation with Jack (if he looks after himself as Giggs has done).
Chas 😀
Interesting parallel with the planned protest for the Swansea game.
‘I support the players but not the manager’ type of standpoint fails to the recognise that the players and the manager are inextricably linked.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/12/blackburn_boo_boys_cannot_help.html
Get in!
pool losing to fulham 🙂
Dempsey’s just scored, 1-0 to Fulham with 5 mins to go and Liverpool down to ten men.
Get in Fulham 😀
Was it a red for Spearing then?
Chas – 1. I suspect you are right about rich people, but frankly I wouldn’t know
2. I am glad you are not a muffin any more, wasn’t a very dignified name, Chas is much nicer
Straight red for dangerous play for Spearing.
Evonne. 🙂
Ok have just seen it watching ESPN App. Have to say he makes the ball, but he follows through and the contact is bad. Can see why the ref gives him a Red, no doubt Kenny will have a word or two to say 😀
Yes, he got the ball, but studs were up very high
ooooooh, poor Danny Murphy hurt himself, bloody ex scum
Monster 🙂
TMHT I thought Revenue had already won the case on Image Rights and now the clubs are finding themselves lumped with a large PAYE bill plus NI plus Interest.
It’s astonishing that we now have an identical record to last season. Played 14 Won 8 Drawn 2 and Lost 4.
Even more astonishing is that last season we won the next two games and went top!
I know Chas 32 points wouldn’t even have us top now let alone in two games.
Gary Neville – what a pillock!
Its a never ending battle GiE.
It looked like a good red to me. Common pundit misunderstanding is that getting ball first justifies anything that follows. It doesn’t.
I was impressed by Fulham tonight: Senderos and Hangeland have established an excellent partnership, and Dembele, Murphy, Ethuu and Riaz in midfield were superb. And Clint Dempsey, what a player.
Chas, I switched off before the analysis – what did Neville say that you didn’t like? I usually think he’s an excellent pundit but if he’s coming ver all Mancunion, I’m happy to join the outrage!
I can’t stand him, 26. All rationality goes out of the window.
He was trying to say that Senderos should have been sent off for two bookables or for a red for denying a clear goal scoring chance for Adam.
Hangelaand should have conceded a penalty now.
Gary Neville would have conceded 6 penalties every single game if they were given for such soft decisions. Hypocrite.
Chas and 26 – Neville might actually have a point – Sanderos was pointing to the line to indicate the foul was outise the area, but he was blatently lying. He didn’t have a good game, our Phillipe
Evonne,
Rule number one…..Gary Neville is never right.
Evonne,
When Senderos first started to rugby tackle Adam, it was definitely outside the area. 🙂
G’night all.
Ha ha, chas, your consistency is admirable! But I like Neville’s analysis, refreshingly honest after all the rubbish you get from most of the sycophants and big-I-ams.
evonne, I can’t pretend to have watched every minute of the game (probably saw about half of it), but virtually everything I did see from Senderos I thought he did very well, esp in terms of positional play. But that’s just me!
Evening AA-ers, you can see why Fulham have taken points from Liverpool, MC and us. They play a very patient and well-organised and disciplined game of football. Hard to beat at the back with Hangeland and Schwarzer their best players, confident on the ball in the middle with a good passing game and ball retention, and upfront they are weaker but patient to wait for their one or two chances. We will be playing them again in 4 weeks time and that will be the fourth game in a 12-day period for us (and them). We have got to be at our very best to beat Fulham then.
Great discussions and contributions re FFP today. I am not particulary excited about it, but it has been very informative reading the comments of GiE, RA, 26 and TMHT, and others. I cannot image there being a better blog for a topic like this. Top stuff and thanks to all 🙂
meh – I would take a non corrupt ruling body and some decent referees. The number of bad calls / ridiculous refereeing from this weeks games has been awful…. it shows as well as technology for the goal line some sort of assistance is required for offside decisions is required. Those decisions are costing points. The non call for the pen on Ramsey was also diabolical.
sorry repeating required too much there!!!
I’ve often wondered why with the GPS kit installed somewhere on the player (boots I believe) they can’t do some sort of tech offside wizardry.
If they are using the GPS to track distance covered it must know where all players are all the time. Simply add in a if function.
ie IF only one Blue player is between Red Player and goal AND Red Player plays ball from forward pass THEN offside.
It doesn’t even have to be live decision can just freeze time on a replay when ball played forward.
26may – perhaps he did, however I am notorious for trying to find fault with ex-players, especially those I liked, like Phillipe whom both Cesc and I liked very much
Monster – ok, I will try to remember the golden rule. Shall I forget I am sure GM will be only too happy to remind me 🙂
Morning all, freeeeeeezing in North London!!!
GiE,
Really superb post that provoked so many very important comments. Really sorry I am not around much. Fantastic contributions from so many of you. Herb, Raddy, 26, Transplant, RA stand out from a very quick speed read.
Thanks all.
Morning all.
GIE a superb post and it will be interesting to see the outcome of the FFP rules as these top clubs have specialists as you know who will find loop holes to get round it,just as I have just found with the STLD scheme to avoid stamp duty when buying a property in the UK.
Clint Dempsey well done and I know from. my lad that you are a top bloke and a humble human being .Poor ref decisions yet again last night and not for the first pepe made a clanger though of course it won’t be dwelt upon.
Looking forward to tonight and personally I am not sure that frimpong should be loaned out, he’s a beast of a boy and with the ANC coming up would not be out of place in certain games.
This bit is for dandan.;)
Theo has finally listened to me after countless calls to him, and he is now going to the bye line, looking up and crossing on the ground which has resulted in 3 assists for goals.
If the comment made yday about ‘65% of all revenue earned from football goes to players wages’ then this sport is heading for the toilet.
How can smaller clubs possibly manage to stay in business when so much money is being taken out of the game by players?
FFP rules must be enforced, and strongly, otherwise I predict we are going to see some big name clubs in the near future going into administration and even worse, out of business.
Stories of players going unpaid and teams starting seasons with points deducted are becoming more frequent.
For me, a salary cap is the way forward, but maybe it has been left too late to enforce.
Hi Kelsey, been a while since we’ve both been on AA, hope you’re well.
I assume Frimpong will be at the ACN with Ghana (they’d be mad not to call him up), along with Gerv (Iv Coast) and Chamakh (Morocco). Lucky for us that Cameroon failed to qualify, so at least we’ll have Song.
Morning all
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