Written by 26may1989
As someone who’s retained patience with the current regime at the club, that’s a question I’ve been asked plenty of times over the past couple of months about whether it’s time for our manager to be shown the door. I’m sure I’m far from being the only one. But I’ve no interest in getting into yet another should-he-stay-or-should-he-go yack-yack; surely, we’ve all had enough of that, at least until proper football resumes and there’s more fuel for those fires.
No, the question I’d like to pose is: when does sugar daddy money reach a point where we as football fans give up on the game?
English football has the best (worst) examples of sugar-daddyism of course, most obviously in Chelsea and City, but also QPR, and Wigan and previously Leeds and Portsmouth provide examples too; in Spain, there are Malaga and Getafe; in France there’s PSG; in Germany, there’s been Hoffenheim (though Bundesliga rules restrict the scope of the sugar daddy in Germany); and in Russia, there’s Anzhi Makhachkala, current employers of Eto’o, Carlos and Zhirkov. And just to avoid the rich and pampered superstars having to slum it in far-off Dagestan by the Caspian Sea, where Anzhi Makhachkala are based, the players are all housed in luxury in Moscow and are flown in for “home” games – a round trip of 2,000 miles. Wonderful stuff.
At the more extreme end of the spectrum are two tiny clubs that hit the big time (relatively, at least): Gretna FC, founded in the 1940s, were pumped with cash, made it to the SPL and a cup final, before their owner’s illness led to their financial collapse and ultimately the dissolution of the club. And in Romania, Unirea Urziceni was a lower league team till they were bankrolled by Mr Ego in 2003; Dan Petrescu appointed manager in 2006; promoted to the top division in 2007; European qualification and cup finalists in 2008; league champions in 2009; two seasons in the Champions’ League, including a 4-1 away win at Ibrox; and then Mr Big Bucks pulled his money out, all the decent players were sold to pay off debts, and the club’s form collapsed, leading to relegation the next season. But it didn’t end there: Mr Big Bucks decided not to enter the club into competition at all this season and the whole club was closed down. That was it, kaput, no more football club. It might not have been the oldest, but it was still more than 50 years old. But its fans have been left with nothing but memories.
So there are examples of money being bad for individual clubs. We, the parsimonious ones, can live in hope that our (relative) virtue will one day be rewarded by the gods of FFP.
But when I look at City, I can’t help thinking the money project will succeed, eventually. They’ll sign all the best players, they’ll win the trophies and then all the little boys and girls will want sky blue shirts. And in ten years’ time, it’ll be done, it’ll be irreversible, City will genuinely be part of the elite. And just like Abramovich does now, Mansour will be looking at ways of shutting the trapdoor behind them.
It may look to the sycophants in the press and on TV that the assembly of an English side of galacticos at the Wastelands is a wonderful thing, but ultimately these ludicrous billionaires do nothing but undermine and destroy the game. Competition and sport were demeaned when Abramovich bought Chelsea. It was further reduced when the Government of Abu Dhabi (through its various corporate forms) selected a club of great dignity and style as their vehicle. Why would it stop there? Why would there be no more splurging on other clubs by new sugar daddies, from Russia, the US, the Middle East, China, Thailand, Indonesia, India etc? The wonder is there hasn’t been more already.
So when would I give up? I’ll never give up being an Arsenal fan, of course, too late to change that. But my taste, my passion for the beautiful game could easily be diluted to almost nothing if this sugar daddy phenomenon continues to spread.
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Nice article!Sugar daddies have spoilt the premier league big time
A thought provoking article and one could also mention Crawley Town who were bank rolled into the Football League.
I think the question you ask is actually the other way round.Many fans have actually given up on the game as they don’t feel part of the club that they fervently support, because of this madness of throwing obscene amounts of money into the clubs you mentioned.
We can’t put the clock back but i was discussing this very subject with someone else only yesterday and we see it not as a G14 situation but a World league with maybe a maximum of 12 clubs and the rest will have go to back to basics and we might easily see within a few years a total transformation of the league system in England.
26 truly great post and very real insight to potential downfalls and also the possible outcomes.
I have no issue with the dominance of one club, afterall I grew up in Liverpools decade, and about half of my year were devoted Pool fans despite having not even been as far north as Birmingham let alone Merseyside. But that team was built by great managers and yes they bought good players but there squad was probably 15-16 first team players.
I have a begrudging respect for United they have a huge income stream and their debt is the fault of board/owner mismanagement not the buying policy.
City and Chelsea (in the early days) buy so much of the talent pool, and money is greater than playing, that they effectively reduce competition.
Herb mentioned yesterday the role Taylor played in Cloughs reign. Mancini doesn’t need that, he can buy two/three players, if they don’t work out he can buy another 2/3 without having to worry about selling the failures, he can just stick them on loan not even having to worry about recovering their wages.
That is financial doping. And it can only be wrong. Will we see a Brian Clough again? Or a Fergie, Wenger or Fagan, Paisley,Dalgleish?
26,
A thinking styley post..yikes. I shall need time and coffee. Well done, great read and it really does pose very serious questions.
Interesting that European Football is dominated by two sugardaddyless clubs in Utd and Barca.
In a nasty and vindictive way, I do kind of hope Abramovich takes Chelsea to Slough before clearing off 🙂
Now to think…..
Hi Kelsey
I think you’re right: and the point of greatest pressure for at least the long-fabled European Super League to come into being is likely to be your country of residence, Spain. One of the EPL’s few saving graces is the sharing of TV revenues, but without that arrangement, the situation in Spain is just going to become more and more ridiculous, Barca and Real hoovering up vast quantities of TV and sponsorship cash that might otherwise be shared out.
The macro-economic issues facing Spain complicate how we might predict the future of Spanish football, but it’s never looked more likely than now that the big two will demand an exit, which will inevitably cause the other big leagues in Europe to tumble. Whether we are in adequate shape to be part of that is a moot point. But I can certainly see a big realignment of club football in Europe coming, in the way you describe, and I can’t say the prospect looks that attractive.
A World League? Maybe. But I’d say we’re a little way short of that – the Brazilian clubs are growing stronger, but are there any other established footballing countries outside Europe (by which I include Russia and Ukraine) that would support clubs that could compete?
Apologies for the depressed tone to my post by the way, it just gets to me!
Morning,
That’s a brilliant post 26m – hopefully the blogsnipers will acclaim your efforts in the same way as they deride others in this no-news period.
I cannot argue with anything you say. I’m sure AW has seen this writing on the wall for several years, sadly his best efforts may just have bought us time rather than given us the self-sustaining platform to compete at the top, but he has ensured the survival of the club in the foreseeable future and how many other clubs without sugardaddies can say that?
Is this Sugardaddyism simply symbolic of the instant gratification short-termist times that we live in?
On a similar note, at the end of last season I took someone to the Pool Game. He is English and a major football fan who has been living and working in NY for the past 20 years. He takes his young boys to see The Red Balls, which he likens in atmosphere to games here thirty years ago. Much as he enjoyed the day, he was horrified at the aggressive vitriolic nature of the fans around us. The level of intolerance and pure hate he witnessed them directing towards our own players for the slightest errors. This man said that he really would not want his children exposed to that kind of attitude, and it really did make me consider whether I should or should not be taking my own Son. As most of you know I moved away from London, and I discuss this issue with other similar footballing Dads down here. Quite a few now take their children to Torquay, Plymouth and Exeter for this very reason.
Very good point Micky: a leant my tickets to a mate, who took his football-nuts, Arsenal-supporting 8-year old to that Liverpool game, the kid’s first. When I had a debrief chat with my chum after the game, expecting him to say how wonderful it was (despite the result) for his son to see his heroes in the flesh, the response was reserved. My mate, not wanting to offend me, carefully observed that the atmosphere wasn’t exactly what he or his son were expecting. He said it was much more aggressive than they’d anticipated. And my mate is a Charlton fan, so he’s used to his football coming with some rough edges. It doesn’t sound like they’ll be pressing me for tickets again any time soon.
I haven’t been but MSL football in the States does look interesting. The NY and Toronto fans look especially good.
Hi Micky,
I think its all down to money. The supporters are on average earning less, they think they pay too much for games, they think the players earn too much, they think the club spends too little on players and on top of that we are trying to compete with clubs whose owners have no respect for money as they have more than they will ever need. This gets into the psyche of some supporters and leads to the sad behaviour you describe.
26, good to see you back! 🙂 Thank you for a fantastic, well-researched post about a topic of great importance to all football supporters.
The hardest part for me is that Arsenal are running a healthy, self-sustaining football club at the moment, but it appears we cannot win the wages-battle with MC anymore, and we are hemorrhaging our best talents to them and other sugar-daddy clubs. On top of that, we carry the (luckily still dormant) sugar-daddy diabetes disease right inside the body of our club: any moment Kroenke could decide to sell his shares to Usmanov and then we are just the same as Chelsea and MC: totally reliant on the continuous goodwill of our benefactor and competing unfairly with other clubs for titles, that if won, will mean really little to us.
We can only hope that FFP will make a change, but more importantly, that Arsenal can retain our talents and build a team that keeps defying the odds.
Sorry, the pedant in me realises I should have said “MLS football in North America”.
Micky,
don’t you also think it is a lot to do with the general economic situation in the Western World. unemployment rising has throughout history caused people to rebel and many become more aggressive for a number of reasons and that in turn can lead to more violence in and around football stadiums.it has already happened in Scotland but that as we all know is a religous deep rooted history of two different religions.
Generally in Spain, which one has to remember was a fascist country only some 50 years ago the stadiums are safer and definitely more family orientated but there is no doubt that racism is always an underlying threat.
I heard today that people’s income in the UK will fall yet again, we are living in difficult times that none of us have experienced before and eventually it will have an effect on football.
Hi 26, 🙂
Have you recovered or are you still suffering from seminaritis?
Very well written and interesting Post.
I understand and agree with the point you are making about the preposterous financial imbalance first brought to the EPL by Abramovich and now aped by others.
If I may raise an associated point, it is the use of a word we have all become familiar with and which is central to your theme.
I know I risk appearing to cavil, but I dislike the now widely accepted use of the word ‘Sugar Daddy’, which was incorrectly coined by the meedja in the context of football ownership.
Sugar Daddy is widely defined as ‘A rich older man who lavishes gifts on a young woman in return for her company or sexual favours’.
It is possible that Abramovich and the others are indeed sugar daddies, but that is not a definition that can realistically be applied to their ownership of football teams. Can it?
They are very wealthy men who have purchased football clubs as self aggrandising playthings, for wealth making purposes or for whatever other reason.
By that definition, you would need to extend your net from the Abramovich owned Chelsea, or the Qatari owned Citeh, etc, and include others such as …….. well, … Arsenal, with Kroenke (business?) and Usmanov (plaything?) also meeting that criteria.
So we need a more apposite descriptor than sugar daddies. How about ‘Alpha Male Investors’? Nah! Any suggestions? 🙂
The real problem, it seems to me, is what these people intend to do financially with the clubs after they have bought them.
The FFP rules are trying to address the problem of ‘investor loans’ with an ‘after the event’ examination of the clubs financial affairs.
A more realistic approach would be to strictly define a) who is a fit and proper person to own a club, and b) encapsulate within the FA rules what the ratios can be between; turnover and salaries; assets and liabilities; profit and investments; etc., so these can be properly monitored.
I will not bother you with the why’s and wherefores of b), other than to say that in the specialised professional world of treasury management, these critical ratio analyses are used on behalf of the business world to ascertain the financial well being, or not, of many companies as a normal part of their daily routines, and this discipline could be extended to encompass an improved FFP regime.
Anyway, well done, again, 26! 🙂
Go on, Kelsey, let’s see that reduced to one sentence! 🙂
RA,
I would if i could understand it 🙂
Thanks for the nice comments chums, much appreciated. My recent absence, I admit, is largely down to post-WHL despondency – I’m one of those that often switches off after things go badly. Poor behaviour, I know.
RA: Interesting suggestion re setting up a system that really gets into the detail of “treasury management”. I can’t see that being imposed any time soon, but I can definitely see the logic. But from a legal stand-point, your suggestion of beefing up the “fit and proper person” standards is likely to hit a brick wall. I won’t bore you, but there are real problems in there.
(A note re that seminar: shockingly, my amateur’s talk on the use of event studies went well. Luckily there was an economist there to deal with the matter of what it was really all about from a technical point of view, leaving me to blather on about something I only understand in a passing way. No change there then.)
Kelsey,
All good points, but I don’t believe the people in the ground to whom I was referring were in any way victims of hard times. I know its not always easy to tell, but they didn’t look or sound like it to me. To say nothing of the fact that we were not in cheap seats.
RA, as regards your regression into semantics again 😆 the press were quick to use the term ‘sugar daddy’ as it was the only one available in common parlance – but we all know what they mean.
As a scholar you will be aware that the meaning of words can change over time – sometimes to the point of being the opposite of the original meaning. A good example of this is ‘sophistication’ which originally meant deception or dishonesty. So who knows, maybe ‘sugar daddy’ will be perceived to mean super rich football club owner in the future?
26,
I don’t expect my children to be wrapped in cotton wool and not exposed to the real world, and I fully expect bad language as has always been the case at football. Its the divine rightism at the top clubs that is so unpleasant.
Sorry you experienced the same thing with your chum.
On a bright note, I am promised a game at The Red Bulls next time I’m Stateside. Can’t wait.
Micky
my youngest son who is 25 is over here and is heavily involved in fashion and I have not been back to England for nearly 11 years and most probably have lost site of what things cost over there and we were discussing the cost of clothing and shoes.
When i was about his age the “in shoe” was gucci now at £400.00 a pair he tells me the chavs wear them,so can one really judge. Where they get the money from is something else.
Fantastic Post 26M, insightful and well structured.
Financial wealth of owners has always been there, even ourselves benefitted enormously from Henry Norris, who in 1910 became our rich owner, after leaving fulham.
He successfully lobbied for our inclusion in the 1st division from 1919 depsite finsihing 5th prior to the war, his money brought in the players and Herbert Chapman, the rest is history.
And numerous other clubs have similarly benefitted from rich owners. Roman was for me the truly first of the elite rich, one who could blow all others aside, althought he has slowed his initial pace, he is still throwing money at the team.
The Mansour gravyoil train has taken it even further, beyond the realms and reach of most.
When it cease to be a competition that you can dream about, then its over. A dream ladened with fancy what ifs and buts, that sees you grasp the title on the last day, keeps alive a possibility, or maybe a dream of a giant killing in a cup for the clubs not quite able to stand 38 games, when the those dreams are shattered because Mansour pushes the line too far, and lets be honest he is very close now, then competition dies, its over…
As 26M said, I will always love Arsenal and never stop supporting them, and will always attend and cheer them on, but that little piece of belief that makes it more exciting will be gone, but give up never………….
But I can fully understand why some would……….Will FFP make any difference? who knows, not sure how it equates to the German model, but anything that makes the league more competitive is surely good in the long run?
26,
You are being modest again! 🙂
Following on from the above, I don’t think a Pan European league is practical. Part of the delight in football is to support your team home and away, so travel costs would be prohibitive, and who wants to see Arsenal v Anzhi Panzhi in the Crimea, or wherever? 🙂
The same is even more true of a Pan-World league with the added complication of time zone changes.
What is more likely, is a select number of clubs from Spain, Italy, Germany, France and England breaking away (maybe two divisions to keep it interesting) and playing on week-end evenings to keep the TV companies on side.
RA,
Don’t ever write a post. I don’t have the time or enough RAM on my laptop 🙂
Can the lawyers amongst you also give a view on how damaging (or otherwise) European law is potentially to the future of football.
We already have the Bosnan ruling which added to player power, we now have a pub landlady in Portsmouth who could start a landslide that may potentially take millions out of the TV earnings in football. It appears employment law is very eurocentric to the point that we cannot field foreign players from outside the EC without exceptional circumstances. It all seems such a nonsense.
Rasp,
You are right in saying that the term ‘sugar daddy’ is widely understood in its footballing context too. The purpose of words is to communicate and if it does that, all well and good.
Not sure about your example but a word that was used on AA today proves your point well, I think. “Decimate” is from the Latin word for 10. If a Roman Legion screwed up in battle, the soldiers were lined up and starting from one end of the line, they counted off every tenth man, who was executed. The result was that the Legion lost ten percent of its strength and was reduced to 90%.
Today the use of the word, thru’ misunderstanding, has come to mean the exact opposite, “to decimate” often means to reduce to 10%. In a similar way, people tend to say “I should of” instead of “I should have” or “I should’ve)
So, I was not resorting to semantics, I just do not want to debase the wonderful English language, of which I am very proud.
I am pleased you chose to use the word ‘semantics’ tho’!! 🙂
I’m way ahead of you Micky, and chose the (honourable?) way out by retiring from Post writing some months ago.
I know when I am not wanted!!! 🙂
Rasp,
I can. One thing European Law means is that the local butcher down Stroud Green Lane is not allowed to produce the sausages for the Ems. Hence nasty German rubber ones. If that’s not damaging to football, then what the bloody hell is?
Haha Micky, plenty of scope for ranting on that particular subject. I’m still waiting for Brussels to supply me with some straight bananas – I can’t be doing with all this eating round corners.
Rasp,
My final response — the regulations to allow or not allow footballers from outside the EU into the UK is a ‘British’ thing.
That is why many budding youngsters go out on loan (Ryo) to European clubs because they cannot get ‘special exemption’ for entry to the UK.
Ask 26! 🙂
RA,
I certainly don’t want a post from your nib. I just had to enter the word “cavil” into a searching engine, and with the full force of Google Inc behind me, it seized up my laptop before finally responding with: “Eh?”
Thanks RA, but it’s completely bonkers don’t you agree? The British have a fetish for rules and a ridiculous obsession of sticking to them when every other bugger just does whatever they want – fish quotas etc
Work to do. Bye for now.
26may – if I didn’t know any better I would suspect you are reading my emails! Sharkey and I chatted on the very subject yesterday; you know that great minds think alike 🙂
Excellent post, ta very much.
I told Sharkey yesterday that I cannot believe my absence of passion in football this season. I am an obsessive and compulsive, so for me to be more than slightly disinterested is a dismal state of affairs.
Abramovitch has caused irrovocable damage to the game, starting with the Cashley saga; others followed suit and now we are witnessing crazy money splashed around, prima donnas dictating the terms and behaving like ballerinas on the pitch, clubs buying trophies…. I don’t like it, end of.
I don’t understand rugby, but it looks a tougher, faster game, not spoilt yet. I plan to study a few games and understand some rules, why not.
I am not unique, far from it. And if I feel like that, how many others will lose interest?
Excellent post 26.
Money is the root of all evil and all that.
There are big dangers that the game is taken away from us. Talk of Europeon super leagues, the 39th game, sugger daddies in it for vanity or using football clubs as marketing vehicles, rising ticket prices and abhorant comercialisation, over paid primadonas etc etc. FC United anyone?
I saw an interview recently with Peter Scudamore which left me in no doubt that the premeir league dosn’t give a monkeys about supporters. The top and bottom line is all about money.
On a more positive note, if we can win our next 2 home games and follow it up with a massive victory at the Bridge, we might crawl our way back for a title push. What is hapenning on the pitch at the moment is just a blip. I am sure that come March 2012 we will be considering ourselves as outside title contenders.
Micky: You’re rumbled, you’re not a North Londoner at all are you?? Exhibit A: “Stroud Green Lane”. Do you mean “Stroud Green Road”? Or “Green Lanes”??
RA: Excellent re the origins of decimation, I had no idea about that.
Evonne: I love your thinking: 26 agrees with Sharkey and me, ergo great post!! Exactly the way I see things! If you do get drawn in by rugby, do let me know how the rules work, I’ve been trying to understand that game for over 30 years. (OK, not trying very hard, I admit.)
Rasp: RA is right re work permit regs, they’re a UK beast, and they are structured that way because the politicians we elect don’t think the populace would accept a completely open market for foreign players to play in the UK.
As for the influence of other bits of Euro law, purely as a matter of basic contract law, I find it amazing it took the Bosman case to decide that clubs could not hold onto a player’s registration after his contract of employment had expired. So I see little to criticise in that one.
The Webster ruling (allowing players to buy out their contracts) is slightly harder but, bearing in mind that the vast majority of those earning their living from football are earning far, far less than Ronaldo and Tevez, having a system where the employee has some power over their own destiny has to be right. It’s just difficult to swallow when looking at the mega-rich players.
The Portsmouth pub landlady case is interesting. The first thing to bear in mind is that Sky will react to the ruling by not selling rights into small markets like Greece and Norway, and will just focus on big markets where the price on public broadcast licences can be kept virtually as high as in the UK. But the ruling itself makes sense in terms of facilitating a single market for this service; there is always a tension with the territory-by-territory structure of the classic distribution arrangement, and in this case the Euro Court of Justice ruled in a fairly unsurprising way that Sky’s arrangements go too far in preventing the free flow of services. From a football point of view, if that did lead to less money flowing into English football (which I don’t think it will), would that be such a bad thing? The financial lesson of the EPL is that whatever money is available (and more) just flows through to players, agents and other leeches.
So all in all, I probably wouldn’t criticise European law that much for its effect on the game to date. As for the future, I can see a day coming when the national league structure might be deemed to be problematic. E.g., say Hertha Berlin decide they would do better moving to Poland, or Liverpool would do better playing a third of their home games in Dublin, a third on Merseyside and a third in Eastern Europe, or Arsenal wanted to move to Paris (!!!!), while still playing in their “home” league, someone might argue that the national leagues’ rules that are aimed at stopping them are contrary to the clubs’ rights of movement and establishment anywhere within the EU under the Treaty of Rome. The fact that the eurozone crisis seems likely to lead to a genuinely two-speed Europe, with the eurozone becoming a genuinely federalised unit (with the likes of Greece being chucked out along the way) may hasten the day where nationally organised football within the EU comes under pressure.
26m,
Thanks for such a comprehensive reply, there’s scope for a month’s worth of posts in the ramifications of what you say. I’ll leave the legal stuff to you guys in the know, but it is great to have someone with your knowledge to call upon.
What a great post!. I must admit, the Anti-Christ`s of our beautifull game are spoilling it for me. It depresses me that we abide by the rules and cannot flourish. Like most of you ,I`m too long in the tooth, to give up on my Arsenal, I will die caring.
I don`t want us to end up like the SPL, I know only a few teams win our league, but the differance is, at the start of every season half the league think they have a chance!. Now, for the first time as a supporter, the best I can hope for Is a CL spot. Honestly,this makes me very sad, to lose my hope, to lose the excitement of being in the mix. All I want Is a level playing field, but If I(we) was offered the chance of joining the Anti-Christ league, would I take It ?, If all else fails, yes,you bet i would.
26, I agree with the Rasper, top stuff 🙂
26, I wrote my opinion on this subject last week, and thankfully we are in agreement!! Yaaaay 🙂
I have said my tuppence (?) worth for today, otherwise I would have explored this subject further with your goodself.
Micky, you always hide your light under a bushell! 🙂
In case your recalcitrant computer really did refuse to regurgitate the meaning of ‘cavil’, it means “to unnecessarily trivialise or “to pointlessly find fault”. What? Me? 🙂
Wish I had a bit of TMHT in me ( NO,not in a gay way, so dont bother with the remarks!), fantastic optimism, top man ! 🙂
Brilliant post 26, well done sir!
Was it Jimmy Hill who started the rot, or Rupert Murdoch?
Jimmy Hill brought about player power regarding their wages, and most of the income football generates goes into the players pockets. Something like 65%?
I’m sure most of you watched ‘Dispatches – How to buy a Football Club’ on CH4 a few weeks back, with Bryan Robson conducting some dodgy deals. What’s alarming is that 17 Championship clubs are foreign owned. Birmingham’s owners have had their assets frozen, and since their relegation have had to ship out virtually all their first-team players. Portsmouth and Crystal Palace have almost gone out of existence, and okay they’re not as big as us, but they’ve contributed as much as we have to the history of English football.
It’s our heritage, part of who we are, and a lot of these clubs, even in the Premier Lge, are community-based. It would be a huge loss to our culture if money were allowed to kill off our football, whether you support Arsenal or Accrington Stanley.
‘I haven’t sold my house there yet’
Well, there is still hope my ‘dream headline’ – as per Rocky’s post yesterday – might come true: unfortunately not for a while though:
From Sky (also posted on Dutch football sites):
Coaching Staff
Bergkamp also revealed a desire to return to England one day himself, though he ruled out becoming a manager in the future.
“The plan is to be settled here now I’ve built my house. But there is something that stays with me, something in my body that wants to go back to England one day as part of a coaching staff,” he admitted.
“That is always in my mind. I don’t miss specific things but I miss the feeling which I can’t really explain. I haven’t sold my house there yet.
“I’ve never seen myself as a manager. As a manager you have to put all your time into the job and that would be difficult for me. As a player I wanted to switch off at home and it’s the same now. I would maybe feel trapped.
“You have to always be involved and, if you’re not, you are not doing it right. I want to just drive home, switch off and spend time with my family.”
I accept the point regarding “sugar daddies”, but as Herb suggests, they have only exacerbated that which started with the abolition of the maximum wage and the introduction of the PL.
In the 14 seasons between 1959 and 1972 eleven differnet clubs won the league. From then until 1992, Liverpool dominated and only 6 teams were able to break their hold, mainly through great managers, Revie, Clough (2 teams), Kendall, Saunders & Graham.
Only 4 teams have won the PL, ManU, two “sugar daddy” clubs (Blackburn and Chelsea) and the Arsenal.
Thanks Cornwall, i know what your saying. I just expected to see “fantastic optimism” replaced with “fantastic insanity” ha ha.
One more thing which could raise our spirits here concerns the Suger Daddy concept. Our strategy is surely to catch up with Man Utd. Last time i looked they were the best team and the current champions, not City and Chelsea. In fact, they have had money drained out of the club by unscrupilous owners. We some way to go, but i can forsee a time were our revenues are on a par with theirs.
Hi Herb, 🙂
I wrote earlier that the term ‘sugar daddy’ was not suitable for purpose, when applied to wealthy club owners.
I’m not sure my point was understood, because as you point out, there are so many ‘non big boy’ clubs, including Arsenal, who are no longer ‘traditionally’ owned but have been acquired by rich men or wealthy consortia as either ‘playthings’ or for entrepreneurial purposes that the term ‘sugar daddy’ is insufficiently encompassing.
The only difference between the Qataris and Abramovich as owners as compared with the other owners is the amount of cash that they are prepared to pump into their respective clubs, which can be significantly different.
It is an unwelcome development, but unstoppable, I fear.
Hi TA, 🙂
There is a detailed article (or two) being carried in the Daily Mail today, from where that quote was taken.
One article had Dennis and Martin Keown chewing the fat and Dennis’s comments about Arsenal and Arsene were fascinating.
I read all the papers sports pages in Tesco before buying one! 🙂
Total.
I know Arsene likes intelligent players but he must have been chuffed to bits finding a Genius there when he arrived!.
Our greatest player ?. So many In a short space of time.
Hi RA, you have been in fine form today. So good to have you on AA 🙂
Regarding the SD description:
I think the sugar daddy tag works quite well here. Sugar daddies, as per your earlier description, attrack the sort of ladies they would normally only dream off. Other men, younger and better looking, should normally be able to ‘score’ those ladies, but don’t get a chance. The lust these ladies might feel for those younger and better looking male species, is taken away by the security and luxury of the wealth offered by the SD. This feels utterly wrong, unless of course, you are a SD yourself.
Sugar Daddy football club owners just do the same. They attract the sort of footballers who would normally not aspire to play for a club like Chelsea or MC but money talks. The far more attractive clubs, in terms of prestige and history, are snubbed for luxury and financial security. Again, this feels utterly wrong, unless of course you are a SD (club) yourself.
RA, I can just imagine you – with that particular picture I formed of you on AA: a ‘modern’ Greek philosopher – at Tesco, checking out all the papers first! 😀
I sent a draft post to Rasp/Peachers about the Playmaker position today, and I just read DB’s interview saying RvP should play in his former position. Great timing Dennis!
GLiC, yes he was very lucky to have DB there and of course the incredible back-5 as well. Although some people have suggested that Wenger had instructed Dean to get DB, even though he hadn’t moved himself to Arsenal yet. I guess somebody like Kelsey will know this… 🙂
The latest bank in trouble that could require a bailout is Dexia. The board of directors is headed by Jean-Luc Dehaene. He is the man who is in charge of the FFP rules. May not be the best man for the job afterall!
RA: City’s owners are Abu Dhabis (or more accurately, Abu Dhabi itself), not Qataris or Qatar. There is a point to my saying this that goes beyond point-scoring pedantry: Qatar has actually gone even further than those like Abu Dhabi buying football clubs as ego-massaging toys; they have a programme across a range of sports that systematically recruits as new citizens of Qatar teenage talent from across the developing world, especially sub-Saharan Africa, and has them perform in forms such as the Aspire Academy team.
The new sporting colonialism is with us: “Are you a small nation-state with lots of petro-dollars but no sporting pedigree, and a population that loves watching glamorous sporting events but won’t ever get near the top? Don’t worry, now you too can be at the top table, simply by screening 700,000 desperates from across the underdeveloped world so that you can cream off the 20 or 30 you want, whisk them off to the Gulf, fast-track that lucky few to citizenship, give them all the training and support they could want, and hey presto, you have sports teams gallore!”
Hi RA,
the direction football has taken should be a major point of concern for anyone who has a genuine passion for the sport.
An associate of mine is a die-hard Glasgow Rangers fan, and they along with Celtic are being crippled by their non-competitive League.
Celtic were the first British club to win the European Cup in 1967, and every player was born within 11 miles of Parkhead. And despite the seething hatred that exists between the two Glasgow clubs, one couldn’t survive without the other. Aberdeen, who beat Real Madrid to win the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1983 are currently £12m in debt. Apparently Rangers failure to qualify for this years CL meant the SPL missing out on a £20m windfall.
I’m sure capitalism has merit, but not when it starts to eat up and ruin our football.
If I could have a £1, for every person on this site who think`s RVP should play in the “Bergkamp” role, then I`d have enough money to buy all the Mags in Tesco`s for RA. 🙂
Hi TA,
Dennis Bergkamp was bought in the summer of 1995, along with David Platt, by Bruce Rioch.
Geoff strong 1:42 . Where have you been? Low profile lately.
Does any one else think that its only Mr Abramovich’s hugh ego that is stopping him walking away from chelsea? Hes subsidising the club in excess of £50 million per year, has to contend with FFP rules, ungrateful (or sensible) Chelsea fans that wont sell him the Bridge, and is now involved in an ugly court case with a former business partner.
As for the Abu Dhabis, i agree with RA & 26. They clearly have more money than sense and only some sort of FFP framework will curtail there ridiculous spending.
The thing that realy irks me about these type of owners is that within a few years of there involvment they can usurp the tradition and history of football.
Christ, ive just realised ime a resentful and jealous old git.
Still think we will do them in the long run though.
Hi HA, that is correct. But I heard rumours that Dein had taken advice from Wenger re getting Bergkamp (even though he was not the manager of Arsenal yet), but this could all be wrong.
GLIC,
You are right. I am a newspaper sports page tart, browsing the Tesco paper stand before conveniently buying the one I haven’t yet read. Shameful!! 🙂
I don’t fool anyone in the store tho’ — they just choose to turn a blind eye to the big lump trying to make himself seem invisible while devouring and memorising all the Arsenal trivia. I know this because a sweet and attractive Tesco girl, with a cute accent told me “I think you missed that one at the back!” 🙂
26,
Yes sorry about getting my Arab nations mixed up, especially as you clearly wrote about Mansour and Abou Dhabi in your Post! 🙂
Your point about the the petro-dollar nations and their far flung reach is well said.
I also read recently about the numbers of young African boys who are brought into France from the ex-colonies, tried out by a club and if their footie skills are found wanting, are simply dumped, destitute, in the slums of the cities with no money to get home. Same, same unfortunately.
GLIC,
Your humanity and generosity towards a poor Yankee does you enormous credit. I will send you a shopping list forthwith! 🙂
In that case TA, I’m sure Kelsey, maybe Rasp too, would have the inside info’ on that. I heard somewhere DB was a Tottenham fan having grown up idolising Glenn Hoddle.
Allegedly he was offered to Tottenham and they said no, due to his poor form for Inter Milan.
TA,
Thank you for the compliment earlier – quite undeserved – but nice. 🙂
I think the player AW asked DD to buy, before he was formally appointed as our manager, was Patrick Viera.
Reading that article on Dennis this morning, I was struck by the way Ajax have incorporated him and various ex-players into their coaching set up, without any rancour or pressure being put on their manager, altho’ the Ajax Board initially resigned en masse when Cruyf, whom they had brought into advise them, insisted it was the only way forward.
I wish AW wasn’t under so much pressure, then perhaps he would feel able to follow that example. Dennis still has his house in London, and seemed open to the idea of ‘one day’ renewing his involvement with Arsenal.
What a superb post 26 – thankyou.
I share many of those concerns – it does seem as if the football we all grew up knowing and loving is moving away from us, as opposed to us from away from it.
Maybe a ‘World League’ of the richest 12-16 teams would not be such a bad thing, if the rest of us could get back to having a more traditional domestic league with genuine competitiveness.
The EPL should be seriously worried about the fact that only four teams have ever been champions since the League was established, but I doubt that they are. And there will almost certainly be a fifth name to add to the list in the next couple of years.
HA,
I too heard Dennis had been offered to the Spuds for £4m but Sugar claimed he had said no, and then scoffed at Arsenal paying £7.5m for him.
A) Sugar is an ass.
B) Sugar made the wrong decision, if true, and proved (A) above was absolutely right!!
RA,
Bang on the money, mate.
kelsey, evonne
Thankyou for your kind comments this morning. The truth about being No 1 on Newsnow, of course, is that it’s all about the headline. On a quiet news day a “tease” headline like yesterday’s will pull in people thinking they’re going to read some genuine news.
I can imagine that many would have been subsequently disappointed to get a load of frivolous drivel instead.
26’s insightful and informative post today is far more deserving of the number of eyeballs associated with being Newsnow No 1 than my effort yesterday. It’s just that his headline should have been something like “Arsenal – Amazing Bid for World Class Striker” or “Stunning News For All Arsenal fans”.
How silly of him to use a simple, clear and accurate headline 🙂
HA, as far as I know he has always been an Ajax-fan.
RA, Johan Cruijff has always been a destructive influence. Usually he works as a critic or advisor and he is great doing that. But as soon as he has to make decisions and implement them, he is absolutely hopeless. Another enigma!
That would make much more sense TA, what with him being Dutch.
Great article.
I’m thinking about the £1400 that will normally be winging its way into Arsenal’s coffers next May/June. £1400 represents different things to different people. It is small beans to a Sugar Daddy, a player, a manager, coaches etc. It will pay Theo’s wages for 4 hours and if i carry on going for the next twenty years my contribution will have paid his wages for just over 3 days. To me, £1400 is pretty big beans, so instead of renewing my season ticket in May/June (and selfishly spending the whole £1400 on myself as usual), I’ll be going to less matches but taking my three kids along more often if tickets are available. Hopefully the kids will get even more hooked than they are now and see a better future for our club and the game that we all love. A game without all the lunatic spending, ridiculous wages and absent owners.
I’ve got an idea for a rule that should be brought in by the powers that be.
“A football club owner / majority shareholder has to have their main residence within a 30 mile radius of the ground, and actually live there.”
Similar to the rule for young players training with a club.
Andy T
“A football club owner / majority shareholder has to have their main residence within a 30 mile radius of the ground, and actually live there. Similar to the rule for young players training with a club.”
Great idea. 🙂
Andy T,
Thats what its all about.
I hope you and your kids see some great football from the Arsenal over the seasons to come.
Herb, please see link below. There is some veracity in your earlier statement (I really did not know). He is quoted to say Glen Hoddle was his hero, but he never supported the spuds. Just as well….
He played his very first senior game against my boyhood team Roda, in my hometown Kerkrade. I guess that was when the first seeds of Bergkamp-love were sown 🙂
http://www.bergkamp10.net/biography1.php
It is a pointless and futile discussion,sugar daddies are here to stay.Wenger cant get in to his thick head that they wont go away even though Uefa and Fifa are about to introduce FFP.Arsenal will never be a trophy winning side unless big players are signed and big wages are paid.
I wonder how spud fans feel, knowing Redknapp and Bale are Gooners!.
Also how can Bale, celebrate when he scores?, would you ?, I wouldn`t, I wouldn`t play for the C*nts in the first place!.
Sorry I swore Ladies.
Cornwall,
I wouldn’t play for them even if they offered me a full head of hair.
Cant get my head round George Graham, what was he playing at?
DG, it is only pointless and futile if you do not read the post properly. This is a complex dilemma and your answer to it all is naive to say the least.
GLIC, you’ve got to cut out those ** ‘s. 🙂
Anyway, who are you calling a lady? I demand redress!!
26m;
Interesting post.
Money has, and always will be, what makes great sports teams.
Every sport has a dynasty team/s and soccer is no different.
Man U have ruled the roost in England for the best part of 20 years and there were always complaints that other teams had a huge disadvantage due to Man U’s wealth. Then along come Chelsea followed by Man C.
I can even remember days when I heard the same about Arsenal, albeit to a lesser degree. Sir Jack Norris attracted the best players to Arsenal by paying them cash – which was illegal – but his money made the real difference – less money but the same end result – great teams.
Every professional sport that I can think of has or had dominant
teams and the common denominator is usually super rich owners.
Dave Whelan has made Wigan successful by pouring in millions of his own money – successful in their case being in the EPL.
I really don’t think anything will change – there will always be the haves and the have nots.
AW tried to find a niche where we could compete with the moneybags by creating a youth policy, so far his experiment has been unsuccessful.
TA,
From experience of that gentleman on various sites I’m afraid you are wasting your time!!
TMHT. 🙂
A new question for all: I wouldn`t play for them(spuds) even if they……………?
I wouldn`t play for them even if they offered to eradicate my Mother-in-Law.
next please! 🙂
RA, thanks for the warning!
G5, there is a lot of truth in what you say. However, there is an interesting development going on in many European competitions, where the oil-pumped sugar daddies have not been able to buy a club. With far less easy money available the former dominating top clubs in countries like Italy, Holland, France (might change now that PSG has been bought by an uber sugar daddy) and Germany have not been able to buy up the best players in their competitions anymore.
As a result, these competitions have become a lot fairer and in all of them there have been a variety of winners over the last few years. It took both Ajax and Milan seven years to win another League title, where once they more or less dominated their competitions with one or two other clubs.
GN5, I don’t disagree with much of what you say, but my point is it’s now getting to the stage where the game is only about cash. The scale of the cash involved is so obscene that even a club like ours, with 60,000 people paying just about the highest prices around (plus TV revenue, sponsorship, merchandising, property development etc etc) can’t keep up. The scale of all this is way beyond previous efforts, like Sunderland in the 50s or Arsenal in the 20s.
In this sugar daddy world, fans no longer matter (City could be moved out of Manchester tomorrow, it would have no meaningful impact on the club’s finances). The game is being stolen from us before our very eyes, and the likes of the City fans and the Chelsea fans are willing accomplices in all this. Look at the example of Unirea Urziceni in Romania for the most extreme outcome.
And no longer will one of the the big-but-not-enormous clubs (us, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Everton, Leeds) combine a high quality management and coaching team with careful planning to produce title-challenging football. You are either enormous in the first place (Man U) or you have sugar daddy zillions.
Money has always mattered, but we face a future in football where it is the only thing that matters. And to me, that is plain boring, I just don’t care which rich guy (or rich nation-state) has the most cash to waste on a football club. That is what kills the interest, the passion.
I’m not one of life’s pessimists generally, but when I look at the future of the game I have loved since I was a nipper, I don’t see much to be hopeful about. AFC Wimbledon or German football are looking increasingly attractive options.
GLiC – no problem, except for RA taking it personally 🙂
I hate the Spuds too, but I think if they offered me a contract, I’d jump on it
Thanks for the link TA.
And thanks for that link the other day Chas. Wonderful memories.
One of them that stood out was the boxing-day 0-0 draw with Southampton in 1970-71. Not so much the result (we were all over them!), Highbury was covered in snow, not a blade of grass in sight, and the snow was teeming down too. It would never have been played in those conditions today.
I know Arsenal; fans who stopped going to games ages ago because of the commercialisation of football. Soon we’ll be owned by Usmanov. I think it will be a sad day for our club. Great post btw.
Cripes, a can of worms is opening. Today I spoke to an old Arsenal chum (used to be ST holder) purely by chance that I used to know many years ago. He takes his boys to Brentford for the reasons we are discussing.
If Evonne quits for Rugby, then its full time Table Tennis for me!
A superb read 26
I am attracted to the last paragraph of GN5’s comment at 4.19pm.
I would suggest that nowadays Arsenal supporters can be divided into two simple categories: those who are capable of grasping that paragraph and those who are not.
If you are, you, like me, remain loyal and if you are not you want Wenger to go.
I know the post above tries to avoid the usual Wenger debate but they are linked, Wenger is fighting against a wall of sugar daddy money, why he just doesn’t walk into one of those jobs that would allow him to spend unlimited amount of funds on players is beyond me, I know, if I had not been brought up an Arsenal supporter, I would.
Are Norwich taking the piss? £45 to visiting fans….jokers!
Sounds like they are GiE
Reading this post again and the comments today, made me think……
And my conclusion is that we are now starting to feel like Spuds fans have been since the PL began. Probably not just Spud fans but most (hopeful for Europe) fans.
My thinking took me further, without Wenger we would have been feeling like that for the last 16 years.
A good article May 26.
I read this website all the time, and was a contributor when it split from Avenell Road, but feel compelled to comment on the article. The sugardaddy killed it for me. Money being thrown into the sport at a rate not comparison to the rate of inflation, or the cost of living, so to speak, catapulted the game from beyond my passion. I still have my name on the season ticket next to London, but I feel I have nothing in common with the eleven players turning out for my local side.As it’s been well documented, In my mind Arsenal are firstly a great business, with top four ambitions since the new stadium, but I want to support, or go to watch a team that want to win the league. In years gone by all teams wanted to win the league, now its down to money.
As far as Wenger is concerned, I think his hands are tied. He can’t sign players on the wages available. Its a vicious circle, thats why I don’t get involved in heated exchanges. I am quietly here in the background agreeing or disagreeing with all your comments, and enjoying every minute.
Incidentally May 26th was the last day I was single, I was married into a Spurs family the next day, at Martin Chivers Hotel. Although the marriage never lasted the video of me doing a speech in my red and white scarf still exists.
Keep the faith comrades.
England striker Wayne Rooney has written to Uefa in a bid to keep his Euro 2012 suspension down to one game.
Pleeze downt ban Me.
Great post 26 thanks.
It is the encapsulation of how many of us feel. As for the atmosphere at games that is down I am sure to the modern desire for instant gratification.
There is a little rhyme that perhaps sums us up across the ages.
‘Ah, all things come to those who wait,’
(I say these words to make me glad),
But something answers soft and sad,
‘They come, but often come too late.’
Patience it seems, is no longer seen as a virtue in this digital world of ours
GM,
ha ha ha, the thought of Rooney writing a letter of appeal cracks me up. I would pay good money to see that letter.
It’s a bit unfair of you to decide how deep different fans loyalties go LB.
The Youth Programme hasn’t worked so far because it hasn’t been blended with the necessary chemistry. We have an over-reliance on too many young players, which has contributed to JW’s long-term injury. He has persisted with a flawed tactic that was set up for the now departed Fabregas. And to take us into a new season so woefully under-strength defies all logic, especially when you look at the eleven we were forced to start with at OT. We should never be beaten by such a huge margin, by anybody.
As I said last night, if we can find the equivalent of Peter Taylor – who was crucial to Cloughie’s success – then I would back Wenger to build a phenomenal side, without that help, I don’t think he can.
Keith, Red and White scarf speech = class. 🙂
Herb.
Does Wenger need a “Peter Taylor” or a “Sheik Mansour” ?.
He built the League`s Greatest Invincible team without a “Peter Taylor”.
dont really want to post on this blog anymore..
but here is a few pointers..
1, Stan’s last game was Liverpool vs Arsenal in April ??big fan of
The Arsenal and the game ??
2. Our profit is solely derived from player sales and property ??
3. G(n)azidis earned a 60% of salary bonus last year ??
great news…maybe someday *Gooners*?? like Red Arse and a few more will see the light…kroenke and his playtoy nazidis doesnt care about anything else than money…get them OUT of Our Beloved Arsenal….
be a Gooner and fight for Our club…its about time..
To my mind Wenger has shown that on a more-or-less even playing field he is as good a manager as they come. His successes during the first 9 years of his Arsenal career (with relatively low net spend on transfers) vindicates the point.
But the playing field has now gone all Yeovil (far from level) and his alchemy is proving less effective.
What’s sad is that with the team he built round Cesc we ALMOST did it, on more than one occasion. We had the title within our grasp last season and in 2008 and couldn’t get over the line. We were ALMOST good enough to outdo the moneybags clubs with sheer skill, belief and chutzpah.
But that’s the thing about sport – Almost is not good enough.
This season it’s like he is having to start almost from scratch again. Certainly, I don’t think that at the start of summer he imagined he would be managing a squad without Cesc and Na$ri and containing Arteta, Benny, Santos and the BFG. The only transfers of our summer that seem to have been properly planned were The Gerv and The Ox.
It will be interesting to see whether he can make some magic with a new squad that has been, to some extent, forced upon him by circumstance. If he succeeds, even his harshest critics will have to admit that he is an extraordinarily gifted manager.
Cheerio Tom
Tom I see you chose to pick the points highlighted on LeGrove today that suit your opinion of the situation. By the way if we were having a debate about attention grabbing headlines the headline there takes the biscuit accusing Kroenke of funding it all through Glazier like debt. Whilst there is an element of debt for Bracewell-Smiths shares that was done as part of a mutual agreement and benefits her in Inheritance and I’d fuss Capital Gains Tax. It is not to the banks and it is not loaded on holding company that only own one asset.
But there are also a lot of other things going on that could be seen as positive. But you chose to ignore those statements.
Herb
That’s is why I started my point with the polite “I would suggest”, rather than I am going to ram this comment down you throat……see the difference?
GLIC,
back then he had David Dein doing all his transfer negotiations for him. Whatever it is Ivan Gazidis does, it clearly isn’t that.
Keith Finch
You are missed
As for marrying into a spud family, you are leaving yourself open to a whole host of comments that start with: the moral of that story is……………………..
I changed my name, London was a bit daft
Herb
David Dein was not up against the financial might of Citeh and Chelsea but wait, yes he was, do you remember the embarrassing bit of man management he displayed in the Ashley Cole debacle…………….probably not.
RvP played 90 minutes but did not score. Good news is he did not get injured.
LB,
it is extremely difficult to keep the faith during these dark times.
I get what GN5’s last paragraph is saying, and all Arsenal fans are desperate for some semblance of belief. AW is such an honourable man, every true Arsenal fan is willing him to succeed.
Remember the point Gid made, which I think you complimented yourself? Our work ethic off the ball is shocking, and you know yourself, we are carrying too many passengers, mixed with too many youngsters who shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team.
I don’t know the ins and outs of financial matters, but we still have the 4th highest wage-bill in the PL, and that doesn’t correlate with either the performances on the pitch or our league position..
Lets see whether Arshavin comes back a happier bunny now Russia have qualified directly for the European Championships.
@Rocky……………..
chutzpah……………….Quality Word!!
We have been close, but have just slipped at the line, I would say we were good enough, just didnt get the right breaks…….
This season will be interesting to say the least……….3 pts on sunday no less………….
I’m not suggesting David Dein was perfect LB, more the point that he was there, as a good friend and ally. Nobody has filled that vacancy which must have had a psychological effect on AW, as well as doubling his work-load. I’m not advocating we try and compete with Man City or Chelsea, just appoint somebody to do for AW what Taylor did for Clough.
It’s not the amount spent, it’s about getting the best out of the resources available, and I don’t think we’ve done that for a while.
Harry
I think chutzpah was on the list of great Yiddish/English words that (Kelsey?) posted recently.
Gooner in Excile..
but i do believe that something is not as it should be at Our Beloved Arsenal,and posting facts…well there is nothing wrong in that..?..we could also refer to some rather stupid points that grimandi made today ..
in my humble opinion we are being ripped off,im not banging on about it..and it is my honest opinion…i know that some Gooners believes that all is dandy and we should just wait and see..me i dont think so…
all i want is for the money grabbin kroenke and his..worthless companion (n)azidis to leave..please just have a look at what have happened at The Arsenal since 2007….
and one more point Gooner in Excile the statements today did finally show what many of us have believed for quite a long time,we are a SELLING club…
that fact alone should make Gooners storm the gates of The Emirates and hang the americans from the highest tree,that fact does prove that we are being ripped off and that the regime at Our Beloved Arsenal are ONLY interested in money !!
We are a football club..not a financial institution…at least we were..
Tom
I can never understand why people who keep leveling the charge that “they’re only in it for the money” think that the very rich businessmen who own our club would think it a good idea to plunder the coffers for a small amount of cash in the short term at the cost of massively reducing the value of their investment in the medium/long term.
Believe you me, Stan, Ivan and the rest want on-field success just as much as we do – because it will increase the value of their investments. Unsuccessful clubs make for bad investments. Clubs that win things become more poular Nd more valuable.
26m, Re your 5:05.
I think we are singing the same song.
My slant is that winning football has always been about money and in reality only a select amount of teams have had the money to create winning teams.
The remainder of the teams fall into 3 other categories.
1. Those hell bent on survival – at any (physical) cost – Stoke type teams.
2. Those who choose to be entertaining – the Everton’s – Spurs.
3. Those that Yo Yo back and forth between the EPL and the Championship.
But none of those teams have a hope of winning the EPL so at the start of the season so their fans have to recognise that they have no hope. My biggest concern is that we also become – no hopers.
Money will always prevail even after the filthy rich get fed up with their new toy. It will never become a sport where all 19 EPL teams have an equal opportunity to win the title, that will always be the
domain of three to six teams.
To remain competitive teams really must finish in the top four, to A)
gain the additional income and B) attract the best players.
RockyLives
Selling Your best players season after season doesnt back up your point…i would think that if they were in any way interested in increasing the value of their interest then they wouldnt do that.. imo opinion they are slowly letting Our Beloved Arsenal bleed to death…
please admit one fact We are a selling club..most have known that for a very long time,are we going to continue to be that ?,i would say Yes..looking at Our youth police it becomes very clear,we have turned the youth academy into a money making business..we buy young..using Wenger’s genius to make a profit..how wrong is that ?????
bring back dein..and me i would go for Usmanov..get rid of Our incompetent BoD..(maybe we should listen to Lady Bracewell)
i can easily say that i do not only want the americanos out..i actualy hating them..g(n)azidis what a joke…that man should be well..better not say..im sure you catch my drift..
Great post.
I cant see how a breakaway league is feasible. If fans are unhappy at paying the PL prices then how would they be able to travel all over the world week in week out? Also the TV revenues and sponsorship monies etc would be a massive stumbling block as countries would argue over the cut. Surely teams from England and Spain would be able to demand a bigger payout than those from lesser footballing countries.
What I could see happening at some stage in the future though is a World Cup style tournament over the course of a few weeks where the top clubs could compete. Would be difficult to squeeze into hectic schedules but would certainly make great viewing for fans.
Tomstoned, what do you know about running a football club? Just stick to what you know and turn your hatred into something useful.
Sine I left the Uk I have a much better appreciation of those fans who support the small clubs, year after year with no chance of any trophies. I was born an Arsenal fan because I come from Kentish Town.. its us or them!!!! When I lived in the Uk I only very occasionally saw another team. Charlton v Millwall once, but that was about it. I would go see Arsenal reserves or ouir youth team in the old SE Counties league. Now when I go back I will see Orient or another lower league side if Arsenal are away. When I took my kids around Scotland we saw kilmarnock, St Johnstone.. Montrose.. Brechin City… The atmosphere is good and its real fans. I will always support Arsenal but I really respect those who support teams like Orient, Palace, Bury.. or Carlisle. REAL Footbalkl… REAL fans. If I were back ‘ome I would use the international break to watch the local conference and div 1/2 teams. I hope some of you based in the UK did so last weekend.
Tom….David Dein? As LB mentioned earlier Ashley Cole, as I mentioned the other day, Overmars, Petit, Viera, Pires all sold/released under his tenure.
Want money making how about the man who earned £75m profit from a £295k investment by selling out in the first place….who’d do that I wonder…..David Dein. And why did he do this? Because he wanted the club to be successful, or for his own gain? Yes he decided he wanted foreign investment to achieve it the rest of the board disagreed. If your beloved Dein had not brought in Kroenke and sold out to Usmanov would we be in this situation?
Dein brought two egotistical investors in one who wants Arsenal to be run in the right way, and one who wants to make it another plaything, surprise surprise they’ve clashed and here we are. And who did your cherished Bracewell-Smith sell her shares to? That’s right Kroenke, she had no reason to, kicked off the board and shunned, she could of received more from R&W, and Fiszman again final act was to make sure Arsenal ended up in Kroenke and not Usmanovs hands, why did an Arsenal man do that? I’ll have a guess neither thought selling to Usmanov would be good for the club or the fans!
GIE:
To characterize Usmanov as an investor who wanted a plaything is simply idle speculation and undermines anything important you might have said.
I have no idea whether he is a serious businessman or a short term investor – so until I know better I will reserve my opinion.
Sorry GN5, i stereotype his investment as a plaything as he has clearly stated he wants to throw money at it if he gets control. And that’s how I think Abramovich viewed Chelsea.
I understand the investment in City more. It’s not about football it’s about raising the profile of Abu Dhabi so that when the oil runs dry they still have a way of earning money.
from costa del crime website.
Wednesday, 12 October 2011
Roman Abramovich is a “gangster”, court told
00:45 El NACHO
Boris Berezovsky said Mr Abramovich was part of “black ops” by the Russian security service designed to force him to give up his business interests in the country. Mr Berezovsky, the so-called “godfather” of the Russian oligarchs, says he met Vladimir Putin, the Russian leader, at the Kremlin “eye to eye” and was told to give up his control of a television station that had criticised the president over his handling of the sinking of the nuclear submarine the Kursk. When he refused, he was threatened with arrest and policemen in balaclavas, dubbed “maski” stormed the TV station ORT to remove documents. Mr Berezovsky says he fled the country and Mr Abramovich, his former protegee took advantage of the situation to pressure him into selling both ORT and the oil conglomerate Sibneft they had created together. Mr Abramovich is then said to have sold his minority stake in the aluminium giant Rusal, massively devaluing Mr Berezovsky’s stake.
GIE,
The complaint was that you ruined your point by indulging in “idle speculation”!!
So, like the other 99.99% of blogland you must desist immediately, and allow the tumbleweed free rein!! 🙂
As if? 🙂 🙂
Speculate away my friend — like the rest of us — except those full of humbug ……………….. obviously!
26. Thought provoking. Your final paragraph reflects my thoughts precisely.
However, this is a King Canute situation. The damage has been done and to my mind is irreversible. We must like it or lump it and the idea of a life without The Arsenal is unthinkable.
kelsey. Are you surprised?
Good morning,
I posted that above for those who want our club steeped in history to be run by another Russian gangster.
having said that I am not entirely happy with the team behind Kroenke or what his long term thoughts are.I also believe that Wenger has not got a free hand in everything to do with the transfers and wages at the club.
As I said before let’s see if the FFP rules actually get implemented.if not our club are taking a huge gamble on already indicating that forth is the aim for this year and if not achieved it won’t matter if we don’t qualify as we can afford it.
I am not so sure about that,and as i said before realistically it is going to be a difficult season.
David Dein is another marmite person, but if you think he was wrong to sell his shares to make 75 million and other things he did were not in line with the club’s policy one still has to agree he is an Arsenal fan of the highest order.
I question at the time and even now that the boardroom is not united and that does not bode well for the future.
To me Mr Alisher Usmanov is a very suspicious individual. And he reminds me of Jabba the Hutt.
It is almost as suspect as this club that Carlos, Eto etc belong to – flying 2k miles to your home pitch??? crazy crazy times guys…
“let’s see if the FFP rules actually get implemented” I wouldn’t hold your breath…. the most you can expect is that it will be like the kind of B.S. that City got away with about the shirt sponsorship….. i.e. FFP will be a thin veneer…
Kelsey, interesting stuff this morning.
I don’t deny Deins support of the club nor do I think he did anything that wrong I’m just highlighting the contradictions to another who is calling for him to return, as if some holier than thou antidote to the current regime, that maybe he isn’t much different.
One of the other things that bugs me is that people say that he would challenge Wenger on purchases and buying policy. Whereas I believe he is challenged more now than when under Dein. With Dein, Wenger said I want him, Dein said I’ll get him. I fear now Wenger says I would like him, Gazidis says no you can’t have him, then he chooses another and is told no again, and finally gets third choice. Pure speculation on my part obviously.
With everything else that goes on at board level I have no knowledge so I try to observe from afar and make sense of what’s occurred.
Do you think there was any other who would have taken Fizsmans shares, or Bracewell-Smiths for that matter? As I said, and as you probably highlight why, they didn’t want to sell to Usmanov…so Kroenke was the only option.
Pat that deal has not yet been ratified by UEFA and will be the first big test of FFP.
It’s a shame we haven’t got a hole in a shirt sponsor contract which allows us to secure a training kit deal as United recently achieved.
But there are some deals which weren’t in 2010/11 accounts, we have renewed deals with Thomas Cook and Citroën and also secured a new deal with Indesit over the last 6 months.
The thing that we could do to make more revenue is to buy ourselves out of the poorer contracts (Emirates/Nike) and then renegotiate and open it up to tender, while the finance gap widens we have to be more proactive to maximise commercial deals. And I think we should never enter a contract as long as 8 years again.
Great post, 26.
Interesting that much of Abramovich’s money comes from oil along with the crew at Middle Eastlands. Is the Anzhi money from oil too?
Perhaps they could all piss off together, form a world petrodoped league and leave the rest of us in peace. That would be nice.
However I can’t see it being long before the 35th richest man in the world owns Arsenal Football Club, so I suppose I’ll just have to learn to live it.
I have never met Usamov and very much doubt that any of you have either.
How can we say why he has invested in AFC ?
And how do we judge what he is like as a man? Does his resemblance to Jabba exclude him from the common courtesy of a stay of judgement until he makes his intentions clear?
GIE,
A couple of points – speculation, obviously – but at the time Arsenal desperately needed the funding we got from the Emirates to successfully complete the stadium. (Or to make it more feasible without sky high borrowing).
Altho’ it now looks, in 2011, on the low side, it was a project saver, and you know what they say about hindsight.
Secondly, even if we accept the above, the Chairman of the Emirates investment arm said that when the deal expires, they may not renew it or would only pay a much reduced sum for the naming rights, as it does not present a particular effective commercial deal from their viewpoint — locally relevant but not in worldwide terms, blah, blah.
BR, 🙂
Like you I have always found the antipathy towards Usmanov difficult to understand. I was told that there was a court case he was involved with, at which he was found not guilty.
perhaps someone will explain why he is such a baddie?
I have a complete distrust of the insanely rich guys who carved up Russia and although our man is not mentioned this may give you some idea why.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/dec/03/tvandradio.russia
Morning,
New post ………
Park goal at 1:15
I have an irrational dislike for all mega-rich people. Trouble is, a lot of the footballers are now coming into that category.
RA. Ist point. Spot on.
3rd. Sounds like a negotiation opener to me. Of course the naming rights for the stadium of the 6th biggest team in world football has value in worldwide terms. What errant nonsense.
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