I try and be realistic about the current team, manager, coaching staff, scouting system and Board but whichever angle I look at I think the club as a whole are taking a huge gamble that the FFP rule will be beneficial more to Arsenal than nearly every other club in the PL and that the club firmly believes financial stability is the key to long term success regardless of current results, but at what cost?
Nothing really adds up to me. We are still carrying several players who we either can’t sell or are out on loan. Will we be able to challenge with such an under strength squad though, of course, injuries to key players such as Sagna, Wilshere and Vermaelen do not help.We have 11 PL games until January most would be winnable at least a year ago, but on current form I wouldn’t bet on it.
Mertsacker has said himself today he quite rightly needs time to adjust to the PL and the same applies to Gervinho and Santos. AW has frequently been quoted that these players need at least 6 months to bed in, so when you lose your best two players in Cesc and Nasri (when on form) why oh why doesn’t Wenger buy from within the PL?
Our wage structure is definitely wrong especially when you see our total annual wage bill.I am not picking on Jenkinson but just as an example are we now shopping at Asda for back up players to strengthen the squad to win trophies?
Frimpong, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Lansbury, Ramsey, Gibbs, Coquelin, Chamberlain and Park hopefully will eventually add strength to the team but knowing Wenger at least the last three named will get limited opportunities even if they keep scoring goals, or with Le Coq at Spurs be the man of the match and there are doubts about Gibbs in ability and the inevitable “liable to be injury prone”.
Why not keep a player in the team when he is on form instead of demoting him ? Is that a confidence booster? Was it a right decision to loan out Bendtner (who now vows never to come back) and keep Chamakh ?
Why has Vela been loaned out three times.He is either good enough or not to be given a chance in the first team ?
Is Benayoun a short term loan answer ?
Why did Arteta get a four year contract at the age of 29.(without having a medical as there was no time) is that the Arsenal of old ?
Why does the manager who has a world wide scouting system have players assessed countless times and often then takes their natural instincts and abilities away from them to play Wengerball ? We often finish up with an attack made up of clones of each other and the thrill of seeing an individual moment is a rarity these days.
I doubt Arshavin or Rosicky will last more than this season.Arshavin is the second highest wage earner and regardless of stats he is a luxury.
After our worst start since 1973 we get Gazidis telling us Wenger has a job for life and has complete control and now the timing two days ago that if we miss CL football this season we can handle it financially, IMO is already an admission that we are in transition yet again and their is a slim chance of any reasonable success this year or even a few more years.Is that what the fans really want to hear ?
Every statement sounds like it is coming from a bank not a top football club, and for us not to expect too much on the field but financially we have no worries.
I read on here recently that corporate boxes are available for a number of games and of course in a recession advertising and corporate budgets are trimmed. It’s likely that lack of interest is due just as much to the recession as the form at the club but still a worry financially.
I would wager RVP will leave followed by Walcott.Why should RVP especially stay when year after year there are promises that we are going to buy quality only to read months later that we just missed out, or we go to a lower tier and to an extent take a gamble that a player purchased will fit into our rigid system of playing and more so be a benefit to the team by adding quality.
dandan and others will say it’s “only a game” and he like myself and many others realise the true meaning of double dip recession that will effect us all, but our fall from grace is dramatic and could have been avoided to an extent. The short comings in the side after the Invincibles were there to be seen especially the over 30 policy which appears to be different for every player, and remember that was before the City takeover and what I would like to hear is a real statement of intent from Kroenke.
There is an uneasy feeling as to what is exactly going on at the club,and too many questions that remain unanswered at this moment in time. It’s difficult to predict how our season will pan out. There is no question in my mind that Kroenke, Gazidis, Law and Wenger do not gel, and that is a bad omen, and yet today I read that Wenger will pick his own successor which comes as no surprise to me.
Finally the big question for me is that Wenger may have lost the respect of some players from unfulfilled promises and that creates an uneasy harmony within the squad.
What do you think ? (apart from so many question marks )
Written by kelsey
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
Just heard on the grapevine, van Persie has put his house up for sale in Hertfordshire. Poops. Is this a sign or am I reading too much into this?
Sorry everyone, I’ve done something weird in the editing and I can’t get any spaces in, I’ll carry on trying to sort it
It’s a GREAT football club that doesn’t loan teams from oil. How do you want it? I don’t want to win a cup that way. I want to win the way WE are doing it. We have share holders – joint owners. If it weren’t for Arsenal, it would be about the ‘most money wins’. That’s not a competition, that’s a joke. Here are eight players I’m not swapping for anyone on the planet…
Chezzer
Van the Man
Verminator
Sagna
Song
Wilshire
The Ox
Gervinho
There is a spine there, and eight TOP players, and we have experience and som top yoots so CHILL YER BOOTS. Big -up the gooners. **** those pussies who cannot see what is taking shape. Go and get Arsenal Player and check the football that is taking shape. Ox nex to Wilshire? Wot iz your problem pal?
Kelsey,
Superb post. Thanks.
The real shocker is learning that AA is the second highest wage earner! Jeepers, and we wonder why there was dressing room unrest last season. I notice he does not even make Dave H’s top 8.
That looks better now, sorry to anyone who tried to read it earlier 😦
Peaches,
The linguisticados are still resting their enormous brains! I reckon you got away with it.
Micky, 🙂
No problems for Peaches really, she just missed ‘jubbly’ in her usual incantation – hubbly, bubbly, jubbly wouldn’t it be lubbly to have spaces for aces’.
Who could argue with that? 🙂
My God,
The biggest of the lot is up. Morning RA.
Your feelings on the Arshavin wages?
Hi Kelsey the chauffeur/banker. 🙂
Another Kelsey special with questions, assumptions and concerns being sprayed around in a bewildering kaleidoscope of gooner prose confetti.
Nice one, my little hero! 🙂
@ DaveH
i agree with your list except i’d swap gerv for Ramsey, simply because i feel Ramsey is going to be immense and i haven’t seen enough of gerv yet. Interesting sta i read on arseblog, Ramsey has had 3 out of 9 assists and created 12 scoring opportunities…not bad at all young ramsey!
interesting choice of words for your last paragraph though
@ Micky
so what im dumb now huh?haha
Hi Micky,
I have been up since 5 a.m. to finish a schedule then settle down with a largish breakfast to watch the Japanese Grand Priz, the Aussie v Boks Rugby World Cup, followed by the Argie Bargy v All Blacks game. (see, I even know all the names 🙂 )
I have to admit that I am taking some of the beloved Kelsey’s comments with a pinch of salt. No one can know for certain what the salary breakdown is because Arsenal do not divulge that detail in their accounts, so I presume Kelsey is relying on rumour – always suspect, I think. (Not that I would argue with him ………… obviously) 🙂
But AA is a senior player and will command a salary to match. To be honest it does not bother me what he earns — I’m not in a position to judge and the market rate is what it is!
very interesting to see AA’s wages, no wonder why he’s always waltzing around with a grin on his face, he’s living the dream
Jenkinson’s going to be the best right-back in the league in a few seasons. I’d rather have him than Eboue. At least Jenkinson is going to grow into a better player.
Good heavens, Kelsey, do I detect a hint of criticism in your post. Be careful or you will be taken out and burnt at the Arsenal Arsenal stake.
@ gunner17
I think he will be also, however right now i’d take eboue because his experience is needed with the big loss of sagna. To call upon jenks for 3 months at this stage of his development is not an ideal situation
RA/Oz,
I’d be mighty miffed if I was putting in Jack/Song/Sagna-type shifts, then saw the size of the Arshavin weekly envelope on pay day.
Hands down…Arsenal is a financial institution and a feeder club for Barca and Man Shitty
@ Micky
most definently, i could understand his wage because of his international recognition and what hes delivered in the past. However on current form you would be slightly peeved. I’ll be very shocked if when it comes time to renegotiate jacks contract he doesn’t become our highest paid player
Out for the day. Back later.
Morning Kelsey, peaches,
Quick answer, they are a Multi-national corporation, whose business is based around a north London football team, Whilst the group also trades in property, Marketing memorabilia of all kinds and Image rights worldwide, through a network of stores, academy’s and Branded products. The new American connection will further these operation, with lucrative tours to new parts of the world targeted as potential growth areas.
Whist success on the field is preferable, the brand is now so strong based on the ethos of playing stylish football and as a proving ground for young talent scouted internationally, that trophies are of secondary importance to the playing of the kind of football that entertains word wide audiences.
The rumours and conspiracy theories, normally baseless and without tangible proof, put forward by disenchanted fans, bloggers and a written press steadily deteriating in importance in the evolving digital world, only helps to keep the club in the news and together with the inclusion in the team of the players from around the globe, increases local interest and market awareness worldwide.
This along with the fact that unlike the majority of football clubs, their stadium will soon be debt free, makes the Arsenal one of the most desirable Franchises available and accounts for the fact of the American and Russian interest in Wresting control away from the traditional directors and taking the company private
After this season,I expect RVP and a few others to leave having been disillusioned by Wenger’s pretty soccer without the end result.Then the gunners will be a feeder club for the big boys having been relegated to that status.The brand,Arsenal,aint as saleable as before.
Believe me there will be a chain reaction. First Sponsors will be in a stronger position.If the gunners are out of the cl it will take hundreds of millions to restore the cl status not winning the epl.
Blame it on Wenger.he may have been restricted in his spending but chose to blow it on kids which have frankly been disappointing these five years.
If the gunners are unable to get out of the lower reaches of the table,you can be sure getting out of it coul be a struggle and maybe Wenger will finally have to pay the price.
Kroenke offers this club nothing at all. Like most Yanks they know nothing about top level football. They are the kiss of death for EPL clubs.
Usmanov needs to be running this club-NOW- not after it has collapsed and the Yanks refuse to sell because all they care about is the value of their own holding.
As far as self-sustainable clubs go,were probably top of the league!,pats on the back, well done us!. What happens if we dont get CL for a few years,descend into mediocrity,still no trophy`s and half filled stadium and loss of revenue etc` ?. It sort of goes back to what we fans want, great players ,at a great club, competeing on all fronts. If we dont buy the “super quality” to add to quality we already have, then we might end up not self-sustainable!.
“You have to speculate , to accumalate”
I love the idea of Arshavin getting a weekly envelope with cash in it on pay day.
Can you imagine the size of it? Even if they used £50 notes it would be massive. The thought of the others being jealous because he can hardly carry it, is hilarious.
This image brought back such clear memories of receiving a transparent pay envelope with the cash folded over at the top so you could count it without breaking the seal on the packet.
Chas according to Bob Wilson, Alan Ball was despised by the other players because as the highest earner he used to leave his empty wage packet with the amount written on it, on the dressing room table for all the lesser mortals to see.
In Arsene we rust……….. it will be hard for anyone taking over as Wenger’s legacy is a bunch of immature not good enough players! At least what he inherited was a team with the best defence on the planet and one of the most skillfull players to ever play the game (DB)…. Ref decisions haven’t helped this season but the core of the problem is Wenger’s dilusional attitude with kids… How can he be surprise the good ones want to leave for a club where they can actually win something… I am still supporting my club just not the manager! Time to go Arsene….
dandan,
Alan Ball at Everton was one of my favourite players when I was a kid, but he went downhill once he joined the Arse. Perhaps the money spoiled him.
Morning all as this was rehashed Kelsey comment to a discussion starting post I will give my original comment on Saturday morning:
You raise Arteta question, but also there was Scott Parker that everyone thought we should buy, he is 30/31 what contract would people have suggested we gave him. At the end of the day his contract will not have broken the bank most likely.
And then there is a contradiction, you bemoan the signing of Arteta at 29 on a 4 year deal, but worry about losing a similarly aged player in RvP.
Buying from within the PL does not necessarily work either, is there the talent pool outside of the Big 5 (6 if we include Spuds) which would give us better than we actually signed in the window? Let’s be honest the only reason we could buy Arteta for a reasonable fee was the recent announcement of Everton’s financial plight.
The over 30 policy was always very clear, it was never about players having a contract into their 30′s it was about offering the over 30 player with contract expiring any more than one year contract extensions. Was never a problem for DB10.
As for other comments this morning, it is no surprise I agree with RA’s comment re publicity of wages. When the full accounts are published we will be able to see if the maths stands up to scrutiny taking the rumoured wages of so many players.If you believe what you read our youth and reserves are on averages of around £30-£40k per week, Cesc was on close to £120k per week, RvP on £90k per week, AA23 on I guess (if second highest paid) on around £100k per week, Djourou, Squillacci, Gibbs, Diaby, Dennison and Almunia all on £50-60k per week.
Now the fact that AA23 may have been the second highest paid player in the squad, who would have argued that when he was signed and set our team alight with some great goals and great all round play. Now when his powers are waning the salary is questioned. But on the other hand there are countless other 26-29 year olds that people think we should break the bank and (alleged wage structure) to sign….yet surely they will want four or five year contracts which will take them to a similar state (Scott Parker a case in point).
Oh ok then I have the time and the annoyance this morning Wages prediction based on rumours:
Looking at 2009-10 accounts as basis for the player numbers.
Playing Staff 66.
Cesc £6.2m
AA23 £5.2m
RvP £4.7m
Rest of 1st team squad (22 players @ £50k per week) £57.2m
Reserves and Youth (41 players @ £30k per week) £63.9m
So that would make our playing staff wage cost £137m
We’ve still got to pay Arsene his £6m, Gazidis his £2m, so we’re now up to £145m.
Now there are another 350 members of staff full time, so lets say they earn on average £25k per year (I have no idea but this does include i would imagine a lot of well paid ground staff, and PA’s etc so maybe I’m too low), total £8.75m and then we have a 900 temp staff for match days lets assume minimum wage for 7 hours so £42 per match day for 25 home games £0.9m
And lets not forget Employers NI to be added on the top….£154.6m
So in my view in order for many of these salary rumours to be correct we will see a wage figure of around £160m in a few weeks, if not I expect silence on the rumour as no-one knows!
The wage cost for 2010-11 will not be available until after 23rd October but last years (2009-10) total wages (including players, coaches, admin and ground staff) was £110m so we are looking at 45% increase in one year, feasible?
How right is Gary Neville?
“When I look at it coldly, a team that has John Terry, Gary Cahill, Scott Parker, Gareth Barry, Darren Bent and Rooney in its central positions is nowhere near good enough to take on the major nations such as Spain.”
LOL GIE magic 2nd reply, I refrained from replaying my Thursday answer to this post, but this reliance on rumour is a typical example of dont let common sense or reason get in the way of a good theory.
Heres a question for all the “lets bring a banner into the ground advocating getting the manager sacked “- How does a professional football club remain in existence without making money from both football and non-football activities?
If you can come up with something which reflects financial realities and doesn’t involve finding an investor with money to burn or following a rainbow because there’s a pot of gold at the end of it with which we can close the gap between ourselves and the deliberate lossmakers, then you will have defied all financial reality and ought to be signing up for the next Nobel prize for economics.
Oh and by the way in the 6 months to November 2010 player wages had risen £4.5m.
Football clubs get paid by results, win the Champions League earn a fortune, get relegated and your income drops. Television money depends on how many matches are shown live, drop down the league a bit and you lose the attractiveness.
Footballers are on a guaranteed wage PLUS bonuses. Pay them a reasonable salary plus performance related bonuses and some reality may return. The ideal would be a worldwide salary cap but this is such an unrealistic proposition that it will never come about
Unless the Financial Fair Play rules are applied with draconian ferocity (absolutely no chance of that happening) Arsenal will have to be satisfied with being in the second tier of The Premiership and a feeder club for wealthier teams.
Jack Wilshire is Arsenal through and through, but how long will he put up with Europa League football, no chance of domestic success and falling behind his England colleagues in the wages stakes.
The only hope is that Kroenke will start to inject some cash in order to maintain Arsenal’s standing and thereby protect his investment in the club.
Surely Clock end, any truly professional club should charge the banner displayers the going Rate for advertising space at the Emirates. 🙂
Great post Kelsey.
We currently have a maligned stratejy,manager,owner,wage structure, playing staff,transfer policy, etc etc, yet in a few years we will be winning things again. I must admit, some of the wailing and nashing of teeth is more than laughable.
Chas: I saw Alan Balls first game for Arsenal it was away to Forest on Boxing day, Bally had a good game and then endeared himself to the Arsenal fans by finding enough space between Forests 18 yard line and the side-line, to sit on the ball and pose with his elbow on his knee and his chin on his fist, like the statue called the thinker ( I think ) The forest players were furious and tried to kick him out of the ground. But we loved it. Did anyone else go.
TMHC,
I like your optimism, but would you bet your house on it?
If any Arsenal player is Arsenal through and through, wages and success should never be a problem at all. Like GIE said, it was never be a problem for Bergkamp.
LG,
No, the wife would kill me. I am very confident for our future. With footballs expanding global fan base, if we acheive what i believe the board are attempting, within 5 to 10 years we could be the biggest club in the world.
Bergkamp won things with Arsenal,
Premier League 1997-98, 2001-02, 2003-04.
FA Cup 1997-98, 2001-02, 2003-4, 2004-05.
Community Shield 1998, 2002, 2004.
and his pay probably wasn’t as far behind that of his peers. The case now is entirely different.
GIE, 🙂 Excellent!
A guy I sometimes see down the pub, is an Arsenal fan, and 3 weeks ago he was holding court in front of anyone who would listen, and expounding on how he felt let down by Arsene Wenger, and also by Kroenke and Usmanov.
AW had ‘lost it’ and it was disgusting, he said, that the other two had not ‘invested money’ into the club to buy top quality players.
I mentioned that the club had been valued at approximately £750m, which translated into an ‘investment’ by Kroenke of £495m for 66% of the share capital; and an investment by Usmanov of £225m for his 30% investment in the share capital of Arsenal.
Kroenke does not own Arsenal outright, but controls the club. Usmanov owns part of the club; but has no control, at all.
Now this guy had recently bought a nice Audi A6, and was naturally proud of it. So I told him, that I insisted he bought some ‘go faster stripes’ and some new wide ‘super-traction’ tyres and a set of roof racks for my luggage and I wanted him to replace the standard seats with real leather recaro seats for improved safety and comfort.
I estimated this would not cost him much more than £6,500.
He told me to ‘eff off’. He said it was his car and asked what right did I have to insist he spend HIS money on HIS car, and anyway he did not have the money. Bollix to that I said — borrow it!!
I eventually agreed with him that I had no right to demand that he spend big money on HIS car, by way of a loan, just because I thought it was necessary.
But when I asked him why he was always insisting Kroenke and Usmanov spend THEIR money on THEIR club, (especially as in Usmanov’s case he did not even have any say in the running of the club), whereas he refused to spend HIS money on HIS car when I demanded it?
It seems one rule applies to him demanding the club owners spend big money on THEIR asset; and another rule for me demanding he spend big money on HIS asset.
You just cannot rely on your average barrack room lawyer!
Dandan
I didn’t go to that game but oh I cannot tell you how much I wish I did, the sight of Bally sitting on the ball with his elbow on his knee and his chin on his fist is still talked about with deep toned reverence amongst my Arsenal friends, thinking about it there must be a tv clip or a photo at least of him doing that.
BTW, I love your 11.34am comment one of the best i have read on here for some time. GIE’s 1pm is also very good.
RA,
100% spot on. People shoud refer to your anology next time they demand cash injections.
RA
2.40pm: top comment that.
TMHC – I’m not sure that there would be any point in being the ‘biggest club in the world’ in 5 to 10 years time. If, as many have said, most of the premiership clubs are going to be in real financial trouble there will be an end to the competition as we know it.
There have been suggestions of a European League that would include a number of self sustaining clubs from around Europe but how much fun would that be week in week out, how would our fantastic away supporters be able to afford to go to Spain, France and Germany once a fortnight?
I may not be young enough to be included in the ‘want it here, want it now’ generation but I do feel we’ve kindof missed the boat a bit in recent times.
Maybe some will be happy if we’re the last club standing but not me 😦
And while I am feeling benevolent, Kelsey I also would like a real statement of intent from kroenke, as for the rest, if you feel you need to ask such questions no wonder you are confused.
Didn’t notice you were all having a love-in, I’ll get my coat 🙂
Peaches,
Dont worry, what ever the nature of competion, ffp, ressecion, etc, our club will be in prime position to handle it. I do share your general concerns concerning football in general though
Afternoon all, sorry for my late arrival.
kelsey, your knowledge and information when presented as a concrete prediction has been close to infallible recently so I always give your thoughts due respect.
I appreciate today’s post is more conjecture based on the groundswell of rumour/opinion but by virtue of that alone, you have the right to bring it up on this site.
Like you, I am possessed with the curiosity to know the true reasons behind our recent dealings, but I fear I shall never know. The number of versions of any event are as numerous as the people involved generally, but I do completely agree that all is not right behind the scenes and the likely outcome will be some form of shake-up.
GiE @ 1pm,
I`m also a bemoaner of the Arteta deal. In my defence, We did not pay £10M for RVP, He was not 29 years old,Past his best and injury prone(when first bought) and he probably had a medical!.
I have no problem giving our “elder” players more than a 1 year deal, plenty have earned it, and in my opinion, we would probably be in a better position today, if some of them great payers would have been rewarded.
The Arteta deal just reeks of panic and desperation to me.
Kelsey.
As I said yesterday, I like reading your views, I want more juicy “insider” gossip though! 🙂
Had a look for footage of Alan Ball and ended up watching this.
The North Bank and Clock End are transfixing.
RA@2;40pm.
I, like many supporters, do not own shares of our beloved team, but have invested many years of love, emotion and money.
Do we not deserve some say, on how “our” club is run ?.
Be gentle with me, o swallower of dictionary`s. 🙂
GLIC,
There are a couple of quoted interviews to put forward to ‘flesh out’ your point of view. (I am acting as devil’s advocate here). 🙂
First I read that Arteta stated that at 3 p.m. on the last day of the transfer window his sale had been agreed, then at 6 p.m. it was off, then at 8 p.m. it was back on with no time for a medical.
Then I read that Gourcoff, an excellent 26 y.o. creative midfielder sais he had agreed a move to Arsenal. Then the deal was off because of an injury problem.
(Dates, times etc have been changed or forgotten to protect the guilty, or my dodgy memory!) 🙂
It is possible that, when Cesc and Nasty finally convinced AW they were off, his first choice was Gourcoff as an established, mid-twenties International creative player to replace Cesc.
He may also have realised little Jack’s injury was more serious than originally thought.
Once the Courcoff deal fell thru’ late on, because of injury, AW resorted to an older (29 y.o.) creative player, Arteta, – perhaps because it was now imperative in a post-Cesc and injured Jack era.
Not necessarily a ‘panic buy’ after all, but a logical progression brought about by circumstances forcing AW to react.
Just a hypothetical reconstruction that does tie up the various strands in a businesslike way! 🙂
Arteta took a wage cut so in effect he has a 2 year contract spread over 4 years (or so I’ve read elsewhere) He has also said himself thet he gave financial guarantees in case the medical went badly so I don’t really see why people complain about him. I disagree about losing our “two best players” as I thin RVP pisses all over the $$lut any day. We are a company pure and simple. If the investers think they can make more money without winning anything then that’s what they’ll do (dodgy logic obviously). As far as RVP selling his house I can tell you 100% that Wenger is too.
I’ve invested a lot of money in tesco (much more than I’ve spent on Arsenal) Do I get a say in how it’s run? At the moment we’re pants. If we get better we probably won’t care that much. Has anyone noticed how few norwich scarves there are at old shithole now they are champions?
I would be suprise if RVP leave the clup
Afternoon Kelsey, thanks for your entertaining post 🙂
It is a good summary of all the questions many fans have posted on here for the past couple of months. For me it is simple: I do not know what has happened and is happing at BoD level. Therefore, I am not interested in it. I love Arsenal for the football it plays on the pitch, the rest is secondary.
I am interested is the here and now. The next game. The quality of our squad and our manager, our ability to form another strong Wenger-team and to win things again, to get out of the current predicament and start playing sexy football again. I, and others, have said it many times: all the basics are there for future successes.
Nobody knows what the future economic situation will bring, so why care about it now? There is nothing we fans can do about it. The only thing we can do is look forward to the next game, give our support and positive thoughs to our team and believe in Wenger’s desire and ability to build another good team.
Chas,
First time in years that i`ve watched the Big Match on a Sunday, how times have changed.
had to giggle with talk about “tackle” from behind. 🙂
Afternoon all and thanks for the comments.
I purposely asked many questions as IMO, and that is all it is, the club is not being run the way it was only a few years ago and I can only conclude that the change of share holding has a lot to do with it.Furthermore we all agree that Wenger is an honourable man, but what you have to decide is he managing the club with sole control regarding anything to do with the players as quoted by Gazidis or is he in fact acting under orders from Kroenke via Gazidis.
One can read anything and put a different spin to the next man, but believe me I expect major changes in the not too distant future.
I think GLIC gave GIE a good answer re Arteta. If he turns out to be a good buy I will be pleased as anyone,but his track record of injuries and not being feisty in the tackle is there for all to see. no doubt he wanted the move even if it was at the eleventh hour and allegedly took a wage cut, but whichever way you look at it to me it was shall we say a strange transfer.
GLIC,
Your 4:41. You are absolutely right, and I and everyone here would agree with you. 🙂
The difference is that no was demanding that we did so.
Like me, I am sure your emotional engagement and support for a wonderful club and its teams was voluntary and unconditional.
On the other hand, many gooners start demanding that ‘they’ (the owners) immediately cough up copious quantities of cash to ‘invest’ in the club — when they mean “go out and buy me some lollipops dad” — sorry, I meant ‘players, Kroenke’. 🙂
Don’t misunderstand me, I am absolutely behind the financially self-sustaining model (how can anyone not do so?) but if there was some way to re-capitalise the club, by increasing the issued share capital, I would be for it.
“What the hell does that mean?” – I can hear you asking.
Damn! Explaining that is tricky — where is that smooth talking GIE when I need him? 🙂
OK — simply put: Let’s say a club has an Issued Share Capital of 62,000 ordinary shares of £1 each.
To buy the shares and become the owner, a willing buyer might offer £750m and have it accepted. OK, so far.
Then he decides he wants to offer other fans/investors the chance to own shares in the club, so he increases the share capital to 120,000 shares of £1 each, and offers the extra 60,000 shares at £12,500 each which is the equivalent of £750m.
Provided he and the other fans/investors buy all the 60,000 shares, that £750m goes straight into the club’s coffers, and would be available for investing in players, expansion of the club’s business and the elimination of all outstanding debts. You reeker — no sorry, that eureka, the probs are all resolved.
There are downsides for the owner – he would have to find a lot more dosh to retain control, but if he did, who would buy the minority stake, blah dee blah. The upsides are as above, plus keen fans with dosh to spare like you could have a share in their club and its financial and on field successes!!
That’s enough for now, I warrant!! 🙂
glic,
Haha, Ron Harris says the tackle from behind should stay!
I think I still prefer Jimmy Hill to Hinge and Bracket on Match of the Day.
Hi Chas, 🙂
I was going to ask how the heck you dig out all those fascinating Vids, but then I decided not o, as I would not understand you anyway,
I know I have made similar comments before, but each time you come up with the goodies the thought comes to mind again.
Excellent! 🙂
Hi Kelsey, 🙂
I have been trying to track down the originator of the conspiracy theories regarding the moon landings.
You know; that it was all filmed on a Hollywood back lot, the moon walks were done on bouncy trampolines, and Kennedy was in one of the spacesuits and had hanky panky with the last surviving moon nympho.
No, just kidding about the last one. 🙂
Anyway, it is starting to look like some ex-pat living in Spain. Do you know anyone fitting the bill? 🙂
RA,
There’s little mystery to it.
I just use youtube like google, but thanks anyway. 🙂
goonermichael, You dont love Tesco do you,and dont think about them most of the day, otherwise you would be called…..tescomichael! 🙂
RA, Not only have you swallowed a dictionary but also a calculator, no wonder your so `effing clever!. another one of my heroes on here. 🙂
chas, wasn`t it Jimmy Hill who wrote” good old Arsenal” for the Final ?
Chas,
That’s very reassuring! Erm …. Youtube? Facebook? Twitter? — mystery enough for me. 🙂
(I have never, ever used them —- and never will —– I am a Luddite, at heart!!) Just pleased to follow your links. 🙂
RA,
Is that “Share Issue” thing, something Usmanov wanted to do ?
Chas. Thanks for the trip down Memory Lane. I must have been at that game standing on the West Stand side of the North Bank – probably looking up at the swanky seats where Kelsey sat 🙂
Kelsey. So many questions. I will come back to you on just one. Where has it been said that ANY player has lost respect in AW? – if there is one he should immediately be shown the door because he is not only wrong but also a bad apple.
GKIC. It was JHill who wrote the song. I once saw him take over as linesman at Highbury. A linesman got injured, JH had a refereeing qualification and therefore took his place. Needless to say Chinny got some serious stick.
“Not necessarily a ‘panic buy’ after all, but a logical progression brought about by circumstances forcing AW to react.”
Your on fire today RA.
And Wenger did react, not a rabbit in the headlights, a decisive reaction to a very difficult situation.
BR
I was at that game.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/tv-pundit-jimmy-hill-runs-the-line
Chas,
You should not encourage that conspirator aka Kelsey!! 🙂
Another good Vid.
Glic,
I never saw any of the detail relating to the Usmanov proposal but it would probably have been something similar to the bare bones I outlined above.
As I remember, Kroenke turned him (Usmanov) down flat. The reasons? Well just guessing, but Kroenke is not cash wealthy, I understand, and would have had to sell some of his other assets first, whereas Usmanov could have found the money very easily.
It would also have possibly changed the percentage of shareholdings held by each man, and there would have had to have been some recognition of Usmanov on the Board of Directors.
A two man stand off like we currently have is unhealthy because it becomes a matter of egos and territorial (shares) jealousies. One of them should have been a woman, and it would not have become a p*ssing match!
Thanks, London, 🙂
You can see why I retired from Post writing – I bore the arses off most bloggers!! 🙂
Off now – tomorrow?
So was I,BR, Hill didnt do a bad job although that song he wrote was crass, A bit like Ernie Wises this song what I wrote 🙂
True London, RA does explain the “panic” in a logical way but he is the “wiseman” of AA.
I still think Wenger`s bad judgement was a lot earlier in the “window”,not just “panicday”. How many Gooners can honestly say, they thought Cesc and Na$ri wanted to stay ?. If you did, your more cuckoo than TMHT! 🙂
London. It seemed to be a much more humourous time. The players had a laugh with each other and the fans. Today, due to the enormous media spotlight we rarely see a smile. What we have is the scowls of Rooney, Terry etc. I miss the irreverence – oh for a Gazza.
In recent years only Eboue seemed to really enjoy himself.
GLIC. I did 😦
I was also at a christmas game away at Coventry, when they were in the first division and Jimmy was chairman. It was snowing, Bloody cold and Jimmy had the Cathedral quire on the pitch singing carols poor little sods, must have been like brass monkeys. Certainly they were hitting all the high notes
Raddy,
I bet you have a cuckoo clock on your wall, TMHT`s looking for some company, at the moment he only has a mirror! 🙂
London,
Can you tell me what it is you think SK ought to be saying?
My Wife`s nagging, say`s I spend to much time on here, she wants some company, funny I thought I bought her the dog for company! .
Lets go for a mo`.
I worked with a top flight referee, he used to tell me about the goings on with the player, his name was Arthur Diamond, after we lost to Leeds in the league cup final. I told him Sprake should have been sent off for kicking through the ball.. He had them the following wednesday, sent Sprake off and swore blind I had set him up 🙂
GLIC. It is a life policy.
I am one of those annoying people who wake up with a smile and thank my lucky stars for the life I have,which includes being a fan of the greatest club in the history of our galaxy.
Wow! Some pertinent questions on Arsenal Arsenal. The writer better learn to duck.
Dandan I was at the City Ground in 1971-72 and I can’t remember Ball doing that. He did do it two years later against Sheffield United though.
Big Raddy the problem is what if the players who regard Wenger as finished include Van Persie? Do you still kick him out?
Ramgum I watched all the away games in those days and my recollection was he did it there, but approaching 70, I will not state categorically that it was so as memory can play you tricks. Where ever it was I saw IT.
Ramgun welcome.
“Wow! Some pertinent questions on Arsenal Arsenal. The writer better learn to duck.”
Did you read carefully what was written.Why should I care to duck, ducky.
Raddy,
come on you don’t think it would be published if players lost rspect for Wenger he would show them the door in a different way.Bendtner is a good example of that.
RA,
What i write in a sentence you make into a book 😉 bless.
Is cyberspace engaged or is my laptop about to explode? Sooo slooow
Raddy, i echo your sentiment sir, we should all rejoice in been gooners. Been alive helps to.
Right, ime off to stare at that mirror.
Logging out as I cannot enter into a conversation. Satellite Internet here I come.
Nite all.
TMHT, This is the mirror speaking……your mad 🙂
Micky
I don’t know the answer to the question because I have no idea what Kroenke wants or excpects from Arsenal but I would like to be told by the man himself.
Oh my goodness we have someone with a memory, Ramgun as you remember it was it the Sheffield United game when Bally sat on the ball away or as I suspect at home?
Cornwall, is that you? This mirror keeps telling me to go and write a gospel “The Arsenal” and convert the masses. Help, i dont want to grow a beard and wear flowing robes.
Interesting post Kelsey. I am always in awe of you chaps with some inside knowledge.
Harry’s second hand gossip (posted yesterday) about stand-up shouting matches in the board room echoes your persistent talk of things not being right at the top of our club.
Do you have any more information of what, exactly, you think is going to change in the near future? Do you think it’s going to be a case of AW leaving, or a case of changes at Board level?
Yes Terry, it is I, up in the heavens. You must go forth and spread “The Arsenal”. From now on, you will be known as Terry Moses Hair Transplant. 🙂
Kelsey. My point is who can say whether anyone has lost respect for AW? You don’t know and neither do I. NB didn’t leave because he lost respect, he left because he wanted first team football and who can blame him?
As you know I don’t like this type of negative spin which is based only upon assumptions because what is written in blogland today becomes (thanks to lazy journo’s) a known “fact” by next week which directly leads to the bad atmosphere around the club.
Ramgun. Yes, if RvP as Captain openly stated (within the club) that he had no respect for his manager then he should be sold a.s.a.p. IMO.
For those that haven’t seen these.
This has been made for display at the next home game and for Chelsea away.
http://yfrog.com/z/khhpdhkj
Some have been proposing this is made in response
http://yfrog.com/z/nxrh6owj
We’re such happy brotherhood of supporters, aren’t we?
They are both stupid chas. I think he’s losing the fans though.
Thankfully we know the banner will last all of one second at the Emirates.
However at Chelsea it will be allowed. The problem I have with the first banner is like Raddy says the extra pressure heaping on the manager.
Regarding apparent loss of respect for Wenger how many ex players (apart from those not given a chance by Wenger) have since criticised him in an interview? If current players do support the manager in public they are labelled as part of the spin campaign…. No win situation no point talking about it.
I said recently that if every comment is labelled as spin if it doesn’t sit with our point of view we may as well not bother reading or discussing them.
TA said today there is very little we can do about Boardroom struggles whether they are happening or not.
For all we know every titbit of info gleaned could be fed by someone with an axe to grind. David Dein for example, if that’s the case should we take all the negative rumour as spin too? Like I always say about articles in the press without a named source or direct quote they are of no interest to me as they cannot be judged for impartiality.
GiE,
You can understand where the negativity comes from surely. Problem is results, on top of an arguably disasterous transfer window.
Now bear in mind that when I say disasterous, this is promted by Arsene himself with his book comments.
I apologise for not being able to join in as much as I wanted to yesterday, and also for my spelling,but as most of you know the above was never intended to be a post just my thoughts and a few facts that I am privileged to know.
Maybe the headline is a little misleading and those that know me would vouch that I express myself better orally than with the written word.
I know for a fact that a barcelona contingent flew over to london in February and offered substaintially more than we finally achieved for Fabregas. That initial offer was refused by the board not Wenger.
Reading some of the comments it is like many other blogs.There are basically three camps,one pro Wenger and one not, and the other is those who want the best for the club loking at the all round picture.I fall into the third category.
I strongly believe that there is a major cost cutting programme at the club and there could be many reasons for that and I also believe that though the board say there are reasonable funds available for transfer (I would guess around 50 million ) I doubt knowing his track record that Wenger would splash say 30 million on a player.But surely there is a compromise o get that extra bit of quality and leadership into the squad.Unfortynately one can’t legislate for long term injuries, something we seem to specialise in.
Now look at the signings and the timing of those signings.
Mertsacker proven International, a tad slow but hopefully with the right partner may turn out to be a good signing.
Gerviho was persuaded by nasri of all people to sign for us and then nasri went for the money at Cit.that is a fact quoted by gervinho himself.
Jenkinson is one for the future so we have no experienced cover for Sagna.
Park looks an exciting player but is on a two year deal with some unusual clause that the deal could be extended if he can avoid military service
I haven’t seen enough of Santos to give a view point..
Arteta i have already discussed and none of us really know why this was literally a lst minute signing, yet he is another with a track record of injuries.
Benaoun, a one year loan.What for I would ask. Another injury prone player.
Chamberlain, now this lad excites me so he shold at least on initial form go into the first team squad to give us another dimension.
So all in all although I accept cesc cannot be replaced like for like I am not impressed with the transfers this Summer if we are going to be a stronger and better squad than last season, and to tp it all RVP is in his form of his life but is isolated so much in many games.
All teams have players that lose form.We have Arshavin and Chamakh who have been well below par for over a year.
Why have we got 4 keepers on the books, three would be sufficent and it appears the guy who wears the number one jersey is in total isolation.
This is nothing about supporting the club it just looks like we are now an average team with an appaling recent record of wins.
Raddy I know only a few things that go on the club but going back to bendtner he has his faults but on current form brings more to the team than Chamakh. he wanted to play as a striker and Wenger persisted with him on the wing or just dropped him completely.They had a fall out which one could intpret as lack of respect for the manager yet he couldn’t be sold because arsenal put too high a value on him so he went out on loan.believe it or not if you wish but those are the facts.
A I said yesterday I would like to hear something concrete from kroenke,not a load of spin because if things don’t improve shortly revenue at the club will plummet and that appears to be the board’s main priority.
Micky I understand the negativity over results, I’m not here thinking everything is wonderful…..but I believe it’s results on the pitch that count. They are not good…but why should results on the pitch be affected by the boardroom?
Kelsey I’ll ask again why was the interview given recently by Kroenke not concrete, why was it spin? Will it only be concrete if he comes out and says what you believe to be true?
Kelsey morning,
I’m really not sure there is a Camp 2 amongst regulars on this site (anti Wenger). My feelings are that were we to be in a similar league position in December, then his position would be untenible, but I still don’t think there is anyone here not wanting AW to turn things around.
Furthermore perhaps RVP has put his house up for sale, so what he can move without dependent on the sale,he may also be disolussioned about the lack of quality not being brought into the club, and i think the board not Wenger is responsible for that.If he goes i believe it will be abroad.
Then Walcott, 7 years wages at a total cost of 17 million,5 million transfer, then an additional 7 million on appearances and then another 5 million based on international appearances.
maybe the system at arsenal doesn’t suit him or he just will never be a world class player but my hunch is that he to wll move to a club where he gets better opportunities in his favoured position.that is of course just a hunch, but I wouldn’t be surprised especially as we have now bought Chamberlain who at 18 compared to walcott when at the same age, looks a better proposition.
“RVP is in his form of his life”
Explains
“bendtner he has his faults but on current form brings more to the team than Chamakh. he wanted to play as a striker and Wenger persisted with him on the wing or just dropped him completely.”
Bendtner wanted regular start, he is never going to get that behind RvP, only a year ago Sz was saying the same thing, luckily for him he didn’t have one of the top keepers in the world in front of him.
GiE,
If Arsene is not getting the backing or he sees that perhaps transfer negotiations were not professionally conducted, then I guess you could say things behind the scenes do effect on field results.
As for the SK statement thing, I have no idea what people expect him to come out and say publically. “Dick Law is useless”? “I hate the sight of AU”?
Micky i type to fast I meant generally on arsenal sites.
GIe I respect your views as much as anyone but when the club has had it’s worst start ini over 35 years I find the timing from gazidis that Wenger has a job for life and if we don’t qualify for CL this season an admission of uneasiness by fans and Gadidis is trying to put a dampner on things. Why didn’t he say that a few months ago.
Ridiculous to say that I will only believe what i believe to be true. many others share my feelings,you obviously don’t.
No need to get aggressive with me GIE you question every word i write so let’s see in the long term how our season pans out. 🙂
Kelsey. Fine comment and nothing that even I can argue with 😉
When talking about “lack of respect”, I do not mean players should not be allowed to air their opinions – it is an essential part of team building, Respect is a two way street and AW is always publicly supportive of his players.
As to NB v MC. It is easy in hindsight and NB was not prepared to be second striker to RvP or as you say, play on the wing. So Nik had to go, particularly if as you suggest he has lost respect for his manager. You can’t have it both ways 🙂
Morning BR,
(Desperate to hear about your Island trip. Bet the coastal waters were crawling with lobsters and crabs).
Re Nic: If he was half as good as he thinks he is, then he should have been condident of playing the 20 odd games a season as lone striker when RvP is unavailable. Better 20 here than 40 at Sunderland!
confident
Re. RvP house up for sale: I remember when Robbie Fowler bought a house in Hampstead – all Gooners were very excited.
As were Chelsea fans when TA moved from N.London to off the Kings Rd.
Players move house like everyone else. He has a bigger family now and probably wants a house with a children’s wing and servants quarters and a snooker room and a cinema.
Earlier I said that I spend more on tesco than I do with Arsenal and It doesn’t give me a right to tell them how to run it. Someone commented that I don’t love tesco or have them mess up my weekend etc. (that type of thing anyway) I think tesco do more to try to keep me as a customer as they know I can just piss off to asda. I can’t just piss off to the spuds though. There aren’t many businesses that have such commited customers.
Micky. I know you love a bit of farming chat …..
Denmark has 5 times as many pigs as people (over 25m pigs). It is a very flat land with hardly a hill or valley. As such the pig’s urine leeches into the sea and the surrounding coastline has become virtually sterile. There is sea- weed but hardly any fish.
Strange to think that the famous Danish bacon has led to the destruction of the equally famous Danish herring industry. So in answer to your question ….. No, no lobsters or crabs.
What is also odd is that no-one talks about it. They accept it as a matter of fact but as in the UK have allowed their fishing industry to completely collapse. As a result fish is very expensive here and only farmed salmon is affordable.
sorry for the non-football comment
GM,
Welcome back to you too.
Good comment. Reminds me of the Fever Pitch line about Arsenal being like a marriage and you can’t just nip down the Lane for a bit of slap and tickle just because their football is a bit sexier right now (80’s).
Kelsey
You know my feelings on these unsubstantiated comments and out of all of them this one drives me to distraction but that aside for a moment could you tell us why Barcelona would make such an offer outside a transfer window and when exactly they expected to action the deal because this accusation sounds ridiculous without those points explained.
“I know for a fact that a Barcelona contingent flew over to London in February and offered substantially more than we finally achieved for Fabregas. That initial offer was refused by the board not Wenger.”
BR,
Jeepers. Interesting. I could write a few pages on farmed salmon. Horrendous stuff. It has become part of middle America’s diet, which tells you pretty much all you need to know. Unless you want me to start on its diet!
Kesley
Next point: “I also believe that though the board say there are reasonable funds available for transfer (I would guess around 50 million ) I doubt knowing his track record that Wenger would splash say 30 million on a player.”
This runs to the heart of why people are unhappy and misunderstand Wenger. It has nothing to do with Wenger not wanting to go for 30 million pound players it has everything to do with the fact that if such players came onto the market they would be bought by far richer clubs than ours, that’s to say, if we offered 30 mil for Aguero, City would offer 40, if we offered 40 mil for Torres Chelsea would offer 50.
In this environment it is a miracle we have the quality that we still have. Try and get your head round this Kelsey.
OK,
I am getting fed up repeating myself.I have on numerous occasions stated that one of my closest friend’s son has worked for the Fiszman family for over 10 years and when Danny was in remission he was in London having left his home in Switzerland.He was in london for three months and Barcelona were applyig pressure to get the deal sorted out.Fiszman attended those meetings in February, which is nothing unusual for any player rgardless if it is in the window or not, and though everyone knew that cesc would eventually leave Barca wanted to secure the deal there and then but of course that wouldn’t have been made official before the tranfer window opened.The board refused the offer primarily because cesc had 4 years left on his contract AND WANTED EVEN MORE and then when it bacame obvious that there was no possibility of cesc staying a deal was finally struck with cesc forfeiting part of the deal through transfer fees and wages and thus Arsenal received less than originally offered.Wenger said himself at the end that it was he who persuaded the Board to finally let cesc leave.
I don’t really care what others think those are the facts as presented to me.
Morning London,
Forgive me for joining in on a discussion between yourself and kelsey, but I do think you should acknowledge that your interpretation of proceedings has no more ‘evidence’ to back it up than kelsey’s.
His connections have given us an accurate insight into dealings at the club before – kelsey told us that Jack was wearing a medical boot when the club was silent and the press was announcing that he was returning to training.
There are those in the know who will tell you that the deal for Mata was all but done but Laws cocked up (not for the first time) and he went to the chavs – I believe this to be true.
For my part, I try to take a step backwards and just judge events on results – and my conclusion is that the management is not working in a cohesive way and as a result has performed poorly recently.
Personally I wouldn’t call it a discussion,Rasp. But never mind I will keep things to myself.I am an Arsenal supporter not as to speak on trial.
Kelsey,
Don’t be so sensitive.
You need to underastand that right now London is particularly vulnerable, standing as he is in the middle of an autumnal city sporting nothing more than a thong and a mobile phone.
London,
Don’t for goodness sake think about betting anything.
😆 Micky
New post ……..
Dont have the littlest prblem with Arshavin’s wage because he is better than we have made him. It is like buying Modric n putting him on the left wing position, he wont do any better. Arshavin’s continuous dip in form since he entered Arsenal is Arsen’s making. How can you carry a playmaker whose strength is his passing and dribbling to become a winger who needs to run all-day. And in his first season he gave it a good go. 20matches after Arshavin came we did not loose a single game – and our form was pretty bad previously. But I think he has taken us less seriously after he realized Wenger’s vision does not include helping the team to silverware. If i ran the whole length of the pitch to score a peach of a goal like Andrey did against Liverpool (where he scored 4goals) and still find out my efforts were not enough to win the game then I will take the team less seriously too. This poor defending has been on for like four years now and if Wenger hasnt stopped it then it is safe to assume he cant stop it. God bless those whose sense of judgment is not beclouded by past success of a manager that has gone from good to terrible.
Rasp
I do not present a view and therefore I do not suggest that it is move believable than Kelsey’s.
Kelsey has presented his view of the Fabregas transfer over the past few months as a criticism of Arsenal, when this happens I seek clarification, as I did above by asking why such a situation would was likely to happen in February outside the transfer window.
OK London, but it appears you do not accept or believe, kelsey’s clarification. He’s not making these things up and has remained consistent in his description of the way events panned out.
I know it’s hard, but in the same way as you didn’t want to believe that either Fabregas or Nasri were leaving, you may have to come to terms with the fact that the management in total (not just AW) has performed poorly – even taking into account the factors such as the wealth of the top clubs etc etc.
Rasp
I fail to see why you think that I have not accepted Kelsey’s 9:07 am clarification. Please show me where I give that impression?
And by the way I never said that I thought Fabregas wouldn’t leave, it was Clichy and Nasri I was wrong about.
As for the the total management performing badly, I have written many comments about the use of hindsight and how we would all be the best managers in the world with the use of it.
London,
You cannot dismiss the analysis of what has happened simply by condemning it as hindsight and therefore unworthy – if you do that then you are saying that nothing can be learned from experience.
Forgive me if I misinterpretted your view, it appeared to me that you were querying kelsey’s version of events on the basis that they were hearsay, whereas I believe they have more substance than that.
Buying Gold…
[…]Are Arsenal a Football Club or a Financial Institution? « Arsenal Arsenal[…]…
låna 4000 gratis…
[…]Are Arsenal a Football Club or a Financial Institution? « Arsenal Arsenal[…]…
I just like the helpful info you supply in your articles. I will bookmark your weblog and take a look at again here frequently. I am somewhat certain I’ll learn plenty of new stuff proper right here! Good luck for the following!
Fabulous, what a blog it is! This website gives valuable
data to us, keep it up.