Written by gunnerN5
The period from 1996/7 to 2010/11 has been magical for us Arsenal supporters. We’ve been fortunate enough to have seen an English club play Wengerball.
Never in our 125 year history have Arsenal supporters been able to watch such exquisite football played by such a World class assembly of players. They won 3 EPL titles and 4 FA Cups, which included two doubles
We’ve had the extraordinary pleasure of watching an assembly of players the likes of which have not blessed our pitches since the Herbert Chapman era of the 1930’s.
To name just a few —
Adams, Bergkamp, Campbell, Cole, Dixon, Fabregas, Gilberto, Henry, Ljungberg, Overmayers, Petit, Pires, Seaman, Vieira, Wtnterburn,Wright et. al.
The memories of their incredible achievements and the wonderful skills of these players will be etched in our memories for eons.
But; here we are today, in doldrums at the start of the 2011/12 season – 7 games in and we look positively ordinary. We still play attractive football arguably the most attractive in the EPL, however the rest of the league sussed that out a few seasons back and they’ve adjusted their defences against us accordingly.
Questions linger and beg to be answered –
Who caused this to happen?
What has happened to our club?
Why are we ordinary?
Where are the leaders?
When will it get better?
Will it get better?
There is nothing worse for a supporter than to experience a “no hope season”, or heaven forbid a “no hope period”.
We no longer have a nucleus of high calibre players that we can build a team around; instead we have a group of very talented youngsters that are as yet unproven in the EPL.
This is a chart showing the statistics for the 1st seven games of each of our EPL seasons, this season we have the lowest amount of points, the highest goals against and the third least amount of goals scored.
Nothing is right –
Why did our team become ordinary?
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
Morning GN5, interesting post. Ordinary? That’s a scary thought, I’m not sure we are yet, as I have often repeated we are being judged on 7 PL games but CL qualifiers against a team that are second of Serie A are ignored.
We are without doubt not as formidable as we have been, but in RvP we possess a World Class keeper, Theo continues to disprove his critics, Szczesny a World Class keeper, Verm a world class centre back, Wilshere a top quality youngster.
Admittedly as yet it hasn’t clicked, but I think it can and it will.
Small point on your stats which are mighty fine in 95/96 it says we had won 4 drawn 3 but conceded 14 and scored 10. That’s not possible is it without a defeat? I only noticed because I figured that was the “legendary back four” conceding only 2 fewer than the current defence.
Agree – when you match this team up against the invincibles, then there is not comparison, we do not have the quality that is needed to compete at the top level. We have slipped and the worrying thing is that if we carry on at this rate then we will slip behind the white shite from up the road !! How we address this is to get rid of the old farts on the board, get Usmanov and David Dien involved and pump some money in …… time for Arsene to move upstairs and bring someone fresh into the mix ….. sorted !
big ernie, i respect your opinion, but bringing Dein in will surely only further Wenger’s reign? He after all is his good friend and has commented many times that he is the right man for the job.
good post G5. The start has been less than impressive, and any fan would be lying if they said they weren’t a little worried. However i do agree with GiE: RVP (he may be a world class keeper but we need him to play as a striker also because he’s not to bad at that haha) is world class, we miss jack and verm greatly, and the team needs to click.
We have shown flashes of brilliance (first half against blackburn and 10 mins against the scum, spring to mind).
My only concern is how we are in a position where our only backup to sagna is jenks. Eboue should of been held onto while jenks developed. Same goes with RVP, worst case scenario he gets injured…we are in strife with an untried park, a low in confidence MC. Manu have rooney, wellbeck, chicarito, and to a lesser extent owen. Chelsea have torres, drogba, sturridge, anelka. Liverpool have suarez, carrol, kuyt. Man city have dzeko, aguero, balotelli, and tevez if hes allowed/wants to play.
Hi G5, it is good that you put your thoughts into a post and I am sure many will agree with you we have become ordinary. 🙂
You will not be surprised that I am not in agreement with you. We might look ordinary at the moment, but we are also in the middle of transition and Arsene had very little time to build his new team into something special again (fhe f*cking internal breaks are especially a nuisance).
The stats you provide show there is no direct correlation between a season’s start and winning the league, or even finishing high. It is just too early to say. It is a bad start but plenty of time to get going again: a good run of 3 or 4 PL wins and we will gain confidence and climb up that table again.
The nuclues of high calibre people at Arsenal – you say we have none at the moment – for me the spine of the team, is one I would not like to swap with anybody in the PL: Szczesny, Mertesacker-Vermaelen, Song, Wilshere, RvP. A mixture of experience and youth, but all are (potential) world class players. Absolutely nothing ordinary about it. How long have they been able to play together….
Success is cyclical and no team has the god-given right to be successful all the time. The problem for us is that Red Nose is defying that logic for us and anybody else at the moment, but also that will change. Sometimes luck is in the way: the woodwork (remember that post a few months ago, I think it was by ’26May’), injuries, bad draws for cup competitions, freak accidents on the pitch, and very bad refereeing decisions: they can all make the difference between success and failure.
For me the basics are firmly in place: a great manager, a good to great squad, a healthy financial position, a great stadium in one of the best cities of the world. The two things I worry about/ do not have enough knowledge about are:
Kroenke’s long term vision: is he in it for success for the club, or is he waiting for an opportunity to sell us on for a large profit (in the meantime reducing costs and stripping our assets)? Rest assured though, he would not want Arsenal to be deemed as ordinary if his aim is to sell our club for a profit.
The impact of wage rises on our ability to hold on to our best players and building a team that can be successful for years to come. This is the biggest risk we face and there is not much we can do about it, unless we sell out to a sugar daddy (which for me would kill the very notion of sport – and that’s why I hate the likes of Chelsea, RM, and MC so much).
Under Arsene we will never be ordinary. Don’t give up hope – we will come good again, but it might be at the cost of temporary ordinariness. I could live with that, as there is plenty of ‘spots of beauty’ left in our team, even now. The Gods of Luck might even be kind to us and let us pick up a cup along the way.
Only because this club is looking only for profit now.
Then what we can expect this money making club ?
Impressive post G5 but I am another who doesnt think we are ordinary, Wise is perhaps a better description of our policy. Below is my answer to a long and detailed post from Kelsey earlier this morning, Which has a bearing on your question.
Hi Kelsey, good morning to you, yes it is only a game, but it also a game in danger from many directions.
Look around your adopted country, property prices collapsed to a spectacular degree, what did you tell me? Properties near you, previously sold for 2Million Euro being offered for 600 thousand Euros. Unemployment among the under 25’s reaching 50%. The country’s credit rating has just been cut two points. Spain is in the mire
Spain is not alone, all across Europe countries are fire fighting, debt is an international malaise and when the crash comes as it will, GB will be dragged down with it.
Within that debt trap sit the vast majority of football clubs, banks will want their money back, how will the clubs pay them, the answer is of course they won’t, they can’t, they will fail and go into receivership, TV money the driving force behind footballs rise to sporting dominance will be squeezed, as fans find they can no longer afford sky’s prices. And look for cheaper options either on line or through foreign decoded channels as per your recent so called pub landlady heroin. Whatever route they choose sky’s revenues will dive and contracts become less expensive.
What happens next then, given that many PL clubs will fail, sure some sugar daddies will hang on to the clubs that have become their playthings, but will the Glaziers and their like realise the profits they seek from their toys? Again I think not and if not how long will the Mancs survive.
So what then a European league if so how many GB clubs will be invited in?.
The answer of course is the financially viable ones. Arsenal with their sensible policy’s and financial restraint will of course be one of those.
Who else Europe wide apart from the German clubs will be in such a position and who among the football watching public other than the fans of the clubs involved will pay to watch them.
I would be interested to hear reader’s views as to which clubs they think would or will survive.
Football is on the edge of a precipice and the cause financial vandalism,
Arsenal however is a club far from ordinary not only the longest uninterupted server in the top league but also the most likely to survive its demise.
I could see this coming for the past 4 years in what ever buisness you have if you let managers leave and replace them with trainees and apprentices where would you see your company going it certainly wouldn’t be on the up.That’s exactly what has happened at our beloved club when you sell top class players and replace them with ordinary and potential what do you expect. Arsene has been unbelievable for us as well as english football but he has not moved with the times when you have the likes of fat sam at the hammers saying he’s lost it and knows exactly what he’s going to do then you are in trouble. The board have been more than happy with the bottom line and scraping champs league every season(sadly not this year we have no chance with this squad) To me it was no shock that ivan has come out this week saying we don’t need champs league to compete well just as well cos next season will be reality.Last season with fab,nasri and clichy we were 5 top players short with them gone that’s 8 so what do you expect. A MAJOR overall is required and hope arsene can change his mind set if i’m truthful i doubt it. The pay structure at the club is so wrong rewarding kids and ordinary players with top notch contracts and when world class players require the going rate our pot is empty because we have given 15yr olds contracts that has set them up for life without winning anything. The type of player that arsene has switched to short,injury prone,no football brain and winning mentality etc etc. Look at our form since birmingham it’s been relegation so this season’s start is not just a blip because the players are getting use to each other this is just where we are at now holding on at home to swansea and very lucky in champs league against the mighty greeks. Tactics and defensive play seem to be words banned at the colney creche. Before anybody starts slagging me off and say go and support the spuds etc i have been a season ticket holder for 30yrs and seen alot of highs and lows.
Hi Oz, you should add Gervinho and Theo as potential strikers as well. In the system that we play (4-2-1-3 or 4-3-3) the number and quality of strikers is less important than for the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and MU. What we need is very good attacking midfielders, central and on the wings, who can create and score a lot of goals, working closely with the ‘holding’ striker. The start of last season when we had MC as the holding striker, whilst scoring himself regularly as well, is was good example of how our systems works best.
The last six years have highlighted the decline of Arsenal presided over by Wenger and his policies.He has not fixed the gk and the defensive flaws in the team adequately. Yes he has has bought players for these positions but they are not quality ones because he refused to pay the market rate for these guys. T hat is why it ist coming to a head this season.
If the gunners fail to qualify for the cl, it’s no problem according to Ivan. Believe me it could be a big problem if you want sponsors who want a winning team not some team playing beautiful soccer but are unable to win and stuck in the bottom half of the league..
Then the gap with the top teams will widen until it’s no longer a problem. The gunners will cease to be a big club and become a nursery for the big teams.
.
its wengers fault,,he broke up that 02-04 squad way to fast,vieira,gilberto,pires,campbell,edu,lauren all had at least 2-3 years left in them when he decided to get rid,,we havent won anything since 😦
GIE:
Thank you for pointing out the error in the chart, you were correct. I double checked all of the data and found two input errors, 1995/6 GA should be 4 and 2005/6 GF should be 10.
For the sake of being contrary, we have a young and unproven goalkeeper, TV is off the pitch more than on it and JW is already worn out………..
Gn5, Good Post mate, it is alarming when you look at the cold facts, whereby i dont think we are quite just yet ordinary, there is a glimmer on the horizon, but it is fading along with my positivity.
I dont think there is one single person to blame and all from the Chairman, the Board, The CEO, the coaching staff, Medical Staff, Le Boss and the players, and at the risk of invoking the wraith of Rasp, the fans………oh and the tea lady……All have a responsibility to take to understand the position we are in.
I do believe we have a strong enough squad to still challenge, we have a settling issue, a confidence issue and an injuries issue to deal with, the Transfer window is not important at the moment, gotta to concentrate on what we have…..
What size of Nucleus do we need? I would say it we have that just, but it needs these to stay fit. There are others that are close to been part of that nucleas but need time to prove themselves……
Stick with me on this……….
(Level 1) – The Out Performers
Szczesny, Sagna, Vermaelen, Song, Wilshere, and RVP
………………………………………………………………………………………….
(Level 2) – Good enough, ready for week in week out, need to step up to the challenge, some are on the rise ie Ox, some on the slide ie Arshavin, others need consistency ie Ramsey and Walcott…….
Walcott, Ramsey,Arteta,Gervinho,Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arshavin, Mertesacker, Gibbs,Kosceinly,Santos, Benayoun, Park, Fabianski, Diaby, Rosicky…………………….
………………………………………………………………………………………….
(Level 3a) – Young with Potential, not ready for week in week out.
Jenkinson, Miquel,Coquelin, Frimpong, Miyaichi……………..
(Level 3b) – Not consistent enough, cannot be relied upon:
Djourou, Squillaci, Chamakh,
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
I am sure some of you will disagree, as you can easily move a player or two, but most should reasonably concur……..The point to note is of our nucleus of 6 outperformers, 50% are injured and if szczesny doesnt make the sunderland game that goes up……..
Its the level 2 players we need to get to up their game, some are still settling and I expect Arteta to be in the top group by Christmas.
Coquelin is nearly there and I almost put him in the level 2 players, but he needs more time which i think and hope he gets…..Along with the Ox they’ll be the surprise packages……
So the difference from years gone by, is the size of the nucleus, we have an awesome first 11 from 98-2009, slowly that has been eroded, we all used to be able to pick our starting eleven, but now we cant………
I think we can get out of it, but will we? time will tell…….
Here are the stats for our last 18 EPL games.
GF25, GA32, GW4, GT7, GL7, Pt’s 19.
That’s a winning points % of 35.19%.
Points per game of 1.05 = 40 points for 38 games.
That is relegation fodder…………
These statistics are not simply an aberration they are an embedded trend.
I never give up hope, but hope can only become a reality if there are some positive changes and the only changes that have occurred in the past 3 months have been negative. (IMLTHO)
Now for some behind the scenes gossip…….Believe or not to, it is your choice……You might know some of this, some might be news…..I am not sure what to believe anymore….but I share what I hear…….
1. Mata was all but signed, in a room, pen in hand, didnt close the deal too slow, issue with payments…….
2. Cahill was all but signed, he had put a deposit down on house in London, issue with terms of an exchange player as part of deal……Boton wanted the extra 3 million in cash…..
3. Kroneke has been having agents of managers come to the Emirates to discuss options, this has not been kept quiet. Wenger is hopping mad…
4. Gazidis is in hot water with Stan and on the way out………
5. There has been many stand up rows and some very cross words spoken in the board room……….Money was made avaialble and not spent as instructed……
Morning all,
An excellent post that provokes a lot of soul searching GN5. I have asked myself all those questions and harry’s comment @12:53 would provide some of the answers.
I wish you could divulge your sorces harry or is it one of those situations where someone who doesn’t believe it has started a rumour to flush out the half-fullers?
Adding harry’s list to the repeated remarks from kelsey and my own little snippets, I think that all is not harmonious behind the scenes. I suspect a head or two will roll by the end of the season – be it IG, PR, a Board member or AW himself.
Why have they become ordinary? Because they can’t defend can they.
And who bears that responsibility?
It comes from reasonably close quarters, a very close gooner mate has his mate who works within the club, wont say where, but lets just say he is and has been in earshot……….but from the sound of some of the arguements, quite a few would be in earshot!!!
Do I trust the comments? Well if i didnt believe any of it, i wouldnt have posted it……..as you so rightly described it Rasp, its not harmonious behind the scenes……..Heads will roll, thats certain…….
Apologies to Glen, you went into spam for a ‘banned’ word in your comment, I’ve let you out now. Glen’s comment is at 11.28
G5, those stats are the result of a major overhaul of the squad and they are the price of change. Fabregas and Nasri knew they were leaving from the start of the year, others said they were leaving as well and a negative atmosphere was allowed to take hold of the team, made worse by losing the CC final and other important games. The squad let Arsene down and there was nothing he could do about it. Then Fabregas and Nasri left and so did many others (pushed out by Arsenal). We bought new players and they are settling in now. There is no proof whats-o-ever that we have become mediocre now, but if the situation is still the same after Christmas, I will say you were right all along!
This is the 1st time since the 1994/5 season that I have the
“no hope” feeling. It’s a feeling that I’m quite accustomed to as I’ve experienced it in roughly half of the 64 seasons I’ve been watching.
As many of you are aware I am not that concerned about silverware.
For me watching great football, with the anticipation that there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is what excites me and keeps my interest peaked.
The very worst feeling is that of no hope and that is where I believe we are today. No hope of winning anything this season and possibly for several seasons to come.
My love for the Arsenal will never wane, it’s my pride and passion that suffer…………..
TA;
You may well be correct, but the end result is positively ORDINARY…………
1) We finished building a stadium that cost £420m just before a big dip in the economy.
2) the board and manager see it as a holy mission the pay the debt off before they spend on the team. No net spending since they move to the Emirates. That is not a way to judge success but it is to judge ambition.
3) Wengers second team ‘the invincibles’ were getting old but were broken up to quick.
4) fate consulted against his next team in 2008 when after leading the table Eduardo broke his leg and Hleb and Flamini deserted causing another re-building job. One which he nearly got right.
Wenger and the board need to let go of the purse strings a little, out the remaining deadwood.
Wenger need to get back to core principles. He can teach people to defend. We need to get player fit. Vermarlen, Sagna and Wilshere being out is a massive blow to any team. Get to Christmas in the top half and still in the cups. That’s the ball game, and then start again.
Dandan,
While we may come out of a financial collapse better off than most other football clubs what good would that be?
By your own words – the vast majority of clubs will not survive – so what will be left of football as we know it?
Until we can have some consistency on a starting eleven,we will struggle.
Unless you spend an absolute fortune,and have 3 top flight dudes in one club ,you cant compete when having such a bad run of injuries.
GN5,
Very interesting Post and stats, with the resultant apposite questions falling out from your conclusion that we have become “positively ordinary”.
Without intending to be provocative, because I do accept that you are a dyed in the wool fan, as your opening statement shows;
— “The period from 1996/7 to 2010/11 has been magical for us Arsenal supporters. We’ve been fortunate enough to have seen an English club play Wengerball.”, I have some difficulty in reconciling those sentiments with many of the decidedly critical comments you have become synonymous with regarding Arsene in particular and the club management in general.
There is no need to explain, as it is just an observation.
I expect that many fans will have negative views to the questions you pose but I expect they will all boil down to “Spend more Money!” which is simplistic to say the least.
RA;
It’s really very simple.
I’m not a hero worshiper but AW is the best manager that has been associated with Arsenal in my 64 years of support and (IMLTHO) he has been the recipient of far too much criticism. That does not mean he has been, or is, perfect – far from it, even I could l compile a lengthy list of, his oversights – all of course with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
What I’m dead set against is all of the idle, rhetorical, redundant chatter about him, and the futile comparison between AW and HC – who none of us have ever seen or heard – even myself.
All of this does not escape the fact that we have become ordinary, as proven by our results.
.
As a general football fan one has to feel for arteta. He came to arsenal in the hope of guaranteed CL but now finds arsenal are turning into richer version of everton. ATM everton have more chance of finishing 4th than arsenal.
Talk about irony. Poor Mikel…sigh..
As I see it in discussing the ‘solutions’ to our supposed ills, it rapidly becomes a debate of the deaf.
Take, as an example, DD’s very sensible and realistic assessment at 11:18, of the likely outcome of the present economic debacle on society as a whole, and in particular on the foolish over-spending football clubs, and then contrast that with GN5’s reponse at 1:41;
” (DD), By your own words – the vast majority of clubs will not survive – so what will be left of football as we know it?”
thus suggesting a nihilistic view that if DD is right we (as a club) might as well over-spend too and go bust with the rest of them as there will be nothing left of football as we know it anyway.
Both correspondents are fans with the interests of the club at heart, but rarely have I read two points of view that are so diametrically opposed.
Time for me to retire from the ‘debate’, I think — no one is listening!
RA;
I’m having a dialogue not a debate.
A debate is where one side attempts to win, a dialogue is an open conversation.
RA,
This is nothing more than your, incorrect, interpretation of my comment.
“thus suggesting a nihilistic view that if DD is right we (as a club) might as well over-spend too and go bust with the rest of them as there will be nothing left of football as we know it anyway”
GN5,
You are now resorting to semantics.
The accepted difference between the meaning of debate and dialogue is simply the process by which parties argue.
1) A debate undoubtedly implies conflict in an argument, where one party (in this case you) is intent on proving everyone else is wrong.
2) A dialogue seeks the truth in an argument, by and through enlightened discussion between the parties, where consensual agreement is the sole objective.
My word choice was carefully, and correctly chosen, as you have just comprehensively proved.
My intention, on a busy day, was to pay you the courtesy of responding to your Post – I do not wish and will not be provoked into an unseemly squabble. Good bye.
RA,
Let’s leave it at that, my responses have been polite – while yours…………….
Critic, you could not be more wrong. I watched your team against QPR at home a few weeks ago, Seldom have I seen a more shocking home performance by a team that used to have some pride. Arteta will be fine and Arsenal will be fine, do not you worry.
Arsenal needs 2 start taking long range shots together with our passing technique makes us stronger& serious man-man marking
TA.
The Arteta signing was a big shock for me, he has been injury prone missing one third of Everton’s EPL games and it turns out we signed him without a medical.
He’s 29 years old and we signed him with a 4 year contract, which makes a mockery of our 30 plus policy, especially when one considers the players we lost due to the 30+.
@ Harry
love the gossip, very juicy!
@ TA
you are correct, the way we play means theres less onus on the striker, but when we have a hot and cold walcott, a misfiring gerv, and a low on confidence MC the thought of no RVP worries me just a tad. If MC got his groove back, gerv found his pre-season form, and walcott became more consistent we could rest RVP more, and the thought of him being injured wouldn’t terrify most. Snap out of it you 3 dagnabbit!
@ G5
i feel bringing up definitions and english with RA is alot like proving god exists to richard dawkins!
Good read GN5. I think a combination of thing`s have made us “ordinary”. Wenger`s policy on the “over 30s” has alway`s been a bit strange to me( the Chavs seem to do well with an ageing team), as someone previous has stated, there have been some great talent`s with a few years left in them discarded(yet in transfer window, he gives a injury prone, average 29 year old a 4 year deal, without a medical!). The introduction of Abramobitch and his wealth really put a spanner in the works( it could have been worse, he nearly bought the Spuds), It was a much level playing field before him and the Sheiks arrived.
Also ,Wenger doesn`t have the march on other teams he used to have,they have all copied him and in some cases taken it further.
Maybe an injection of new backroom staff would help liven things up. new ideas etc`.
Personally, I think he made a complete balls up, in the last window. For a man of his intelligence, very naive .
@ G5
some players just have bad runs with injuries, yes it was a gamble but i’ve always thought in the premier league in terms of like-4-like arteta was cesc’s number two, also i feel his best years are still ahead of him, just like RVP. Both of their bad runs with injuries may prolong their careers.
to say that szcz is still unproven is a bit harsh. Unsure what more he can do to prove himself? Not being biased but i would not take any keeper in the world over him at the moment…not even almunia!!!!
Oz, I have a Dictionary beside me every time I read RA`s comments, he could blow them Greek boys out of the water! 🙂
@ GLIC
haha i don’t blame you, i do the same sometimes. Throwing words around like ‘semantics’ is just unfair, and i’ve played ‘my word coach’ on NDS!
Hi all,
interesting post GN5.
I’m younger than yourself, and although I prefer Chapman over Wenger, I wasn’t around during the 1930’s, and to compare them is a futile exercise.
I am now of the opinion that he is a spent force, especially after allowing the OT embarrassment. He persists with the tactical philosophy that was set up for Fabregas. It rarely worked when Fabregas was here, so to continue it with players of lesser quality is madness.
For six years we watched Chelsea unleash Drogba on us, and not once during that period did AW change tactics or find a solution to nullify it. Baffling beyond belief.
Spending money isn’t always the answer, it’s what you do with your resources. We’ve never seen the Rosicky that was at Dortmund, nor the Arshavin that Zenit had. Is it a coincidence that Seaman, Dixon, Keown, xMcLintock, Winterburn, Parlour, Stewart Robson, Groves, Petit, Vieira, Charlie Nicholas, Merson, Ian Wright, George Graham etc are all voicing their concerns publicly?
When a club captain goes missing on the last day of the season because he’d rather be at a F1 Grand Prix, it tells you that somewhere within that club, there are huge fundamental problems.
Oz,
You are so right; our coverage for injured players is generally very poor,
RD and RA very funny.
Hey guys and girls,on a lighter note, how about a table for number of years being a gooner ! so far I`m 2nd!.
Please add name and years( not age.)
1st: goonern5 64 years.
2nd: me ,glic, 50 years.
Any takers to demote us! dont be shy! 🙂
GLIC,
I believe that both Kelsey and Dandan have been supporters for around 60 years.
G5,
Around 60( need them to verify exact amount ) still keeps you top of the league, I`m clinging on to Champs league spot. what bastard is going to take my cash cow away! 🙂
From what Kelsey and Harry have been telling us, there appears to have been a serious parting of ways behind the scenes at Arsenal.
My career involved working on the executive in the corporate offices and believe me a rift among either the executive or the board can be very dysfunctional.
WHO’S ORDINARY? Chezzer? Van Persie? Song? The OX? Wilshire? Sagna? Gervinho? Verminator? What are you talking about? you fool
Dave H.
Some excellant players there! , 4 currently injured, making us not as good as we should be!
No need for abuse, only someone`s opinion. 🙂
Dave H,
I’m happy that you have found something out of the ordinary, because there’s not very much to be happy about these days.
Pay whatever it costs to bring in two-time CL winner Carlo Ancelotti!
G5, Arteta was a surprise for me too, but a pleasant one. I think it will turn out to be a clever move to have the youngsters Ramsey and Wilshere coupled with the experience of Arteta and, for a season at least, Yossi. For me, Arteta should keep playing next to Song in the ‘2’ and we should be more adventurous with who will play in the hole. Arteta and Ramsey should fight together for the position next to Song, and as long as Wilshere is not available, we should experiment with the likes of Yossi, Arshavin, even RvP in that most vital role.
Ancelotti, who could not make a fist against MU in the semi-finals of the CL last season, and they went out with their tales between their legs?
Herb,
It would seem that with all of the back room shenanigans going on at Arsenal it will take more than a new manager to solve the issues.
TA; In Arteta’s first game for us he really looked the part, but since……….
Dave of Highbury shows how far we have fallen. Yes Gervinho is ordinary; we only rate Vermalen so highly because the other centre backs are all awful. He is nowhere near as good as Adams, Bould, O’Leary for example. No more than a decent centre half. The keeper could be good but made a dreadful mistake against Tottenham; Sagna was destroyed by Bale last season at home. The fact is the players you have mentioned are our best players and only RVP and Wilshere are top notch and that’s why we are doing so badly.
@Mark, ‘the keeper could be good but made a dreadful mistake’: could you be more glass half empty if you tried? Take a happy pill mate.
TA,
you really do revel in defending the indefensible. The whole tactical philosophy at Arsenal is flawed, as witnessed at OT, Blackburn and last week. Did Arshavin perform in any of those games? He should have gone in the summer.
Arteta a pleasant surprise? More like a typical AW purchase who lacks the ability to direct or change the course of a game.
A pleasant surprise would be actually showing ambition, like Eden Hazard, or as you yourself mentioned, Wesley Sneijder. Arteta’s best footballing years were at Everton.
GLIC,
You are demoted 🙂
GunnerN5
dandan 60 + he will confirm himself
Kelsey 58 years that I can remember.
BR over 50 he will confirm himself
Peaches over 50 will confirm herself but she loooks about 35 😉
I remain constant that not is all well within the club,I first mentioned this nearly a year ago but it was dismissed by some as just rumours. I know a lot more than I am prepared to put into print as it is very complex and things can change .
Mark,
I agree with much of what you said.
Many of today’s squad are unproven, hopefully with their best still to come, but they do not compare favourably to their predecessors.
Kelsey,
I’d love to know what you know, it sounds very intriguing, to say the least.
GN5. Than you for a realistic view of our current position. Hopefully, things will be different by Xmas.
Mark. Is this the same GK who has made a string of World class saves in his less than 20 games in the first team?
Or the Sagna who has “pocketed” Robinho, Ronaldo, Nani etc etc and has twice been voted best RB in the PL?
As for TV, it is a waste of time to compare players from different eras. Is TV better than all CB’s in the PL bar Vidic and perhaps Terry? Yes, he is.
GLIC. I am over 50 years support ….. , and I don’t think I get on the podium!
Herb, I saw a very good tactical performance in the second half against Udinese, this season’s most important game for us. Our problems are not tactical, as in the wrong tactical decisions, but in gelling a team together again. Or do you expect to see us integrate such a large number of new players, whilst constantly having to accomodate new, vital injuries, without any adjustment problems at all?
I am not a big fan of Arshavin, but like him as an impact player – he can change things round. Gervinho is his competitor and will be first choice soon.
Arteta has been brilliant: adjusted very fast. You are making the mistake in wanting him to be an instant hero, making us forget the departed Cesc. He is not going to do that, neither would Hazard or Goetze have done that: they are just names of talented players who also would need to settle at Arsenal. The man for that is Wilshire and unfortunately he is injured. Sneijder is unaffordable: no way will the Arsenal board sign him, given his salary demands (a shame but a fact). As I said earlier, the battle for the ‘hole position’ has started and I don’t think it will be Ramsey who fits best there.
Can you not at least wait to pass judgement until we have the majority of the injured back and the new team had time to gel. I might defend Arsenal too much at this moment of time, but you could do with putting things in perspective a bit.
TA,
Ancelotti had his hands tied by being forced to fit Torres into a system that suited Drogba and Anelka. Abramovich did the same to Mourinho with Shevchenko.
In his first season he brought Chelsea their first ever ‘Double’.
Is it unreasonable that given our structure, we ask to be one of Europe’s elite? AW has been a serial under-achiever in Europe.
Even the much-maligned George Graham delivered a European trophy, and we’re supposedly a lot bigger and better than we were in 1994.
Kelsey,
Thanks, I`m now only Europa league( or “not good enough for the CL league” as I call it) and heading downwards, how long before in a relegation scrap!.
GPL( gooner premier league)
Name Points
1 Goonern5 64
2 dandan 60
3 Kelsey 58
4 VCC 53 years
5 BR 50+
6 glic 50
6 Rasp ?
8 peaches 49
I like reading your stuff, Kelsey, One of the more realistic writers on here. 🙂
Well tune in tomorrow GLIC 🙂
We have a good team of diverse opinions by the various authors on here.
BR:
I wish I had thought to include two of your words “current position”
although the “cause/s” is a lot older the problem is indeed current.
I honestly think, I and a lot of people on this site could win silverware with the Chavs and Man City, how hard can it be to buy all the best players with that kind of money!
Couldn`t do it at Arsenal. Arsene does everything and I`m not an accountant!.
Kelsey, you little sweetheart, you see, you have a fan club already, with GLIC and me being part of the Ra-ra team. (His grass skirt is better than mine)!! 🙂
GLIC,
It’s a bit like saying Queen Victoria reigned longer than Queen Elizabeth I by virtue of the fact that she lived longer.
Does it somehow invalidate your level of support if you happen to be younger?
Herb, if Arsene were to leave on his own accout, Ancelotti would go some way to fill the incredible gap he would leave behind. If a top manager cannot fit in a top-top player into the ‘Chelsea system’ than who is at fault?
Maybe we should finish outside the top-4 so we can play UEFA-cup and Wenger can say I too won a European Cup, just like Graham. The CL is a totally different ball game and every year it becomes harder to win. We have been in it for 14 years and only in the last 6 years have we been able to make it through the group stages. Remember the times when the likes of Henry and Bergkamp etc could not hack it in Europe?
Arsenal are a big team, but we have no god-given right to win the CL automatically, and whether you like it or not there are bigger teams out there, who spend more money and have better squads.
RA,
I didn’t include you on the list of all time old codgers as you could be 30 or 80 😉
Herb,
I and others were only responding as to how long we have followed The Arsenal. No one is suggesting that one’s level of support is determined by age, just that a few of us have seen some really dire times over the years but support we do.
i have the greatest respect for those who know the more technical side of the game than perhaps I do but no one is trying to gain brownie points.
This table you are putting up is a clear case of indirect age discrimination, and therefore illegal, and I will file a complaint with the AA founders in due course 🙂
Herb;
Being younger has it’s advantages, you will be able watch Arsenal long after us older supporters ashes are scattered, mine will be on a vineyard somewhere..
You can tell your grandchildren that you were lucky enough to have actually watched AW teams.
TA,
wait until the morning as they have gone to bed for the night 🙂
TA,
Torres was woefully out of form when Abramovich splashed £50m on him.
AW couldn’t even beat a poor Galatasary side in 2000 UEFA Cup final.
Whose fault is it that other clubs spend more money and have better squads than we do? We’re bigger and richer than Chelsea, but we haven’t finished above them since 2004.
Kelsey – Peaches did not support Arsenal for more than 50 years!! 50+ years ago she was still pooing her nappy!! Demote her now!
I have been a supporter since my son was 5, so it is 22 years! Not bad
Firstly,
No fucking way is Peaches 50 🙂
.
G5,
Great read, and I certainly agree that we are ordinary compared to some of our recent teams, but that is up against very stiff opposition. I 100% agree there are major bads behind the scenes. For AW to say that he could write a book about the goings on this summer, speaks volumes. My gut feeling is that SK and AW agreed to a shift in transfer policy and things were royally screwed by by Gazidis and Law in particular.
Hi Kelsey,
I know, it’s all subjective. I’m well down on the list, because of my age I can only register 43 years.
But it’s nice to be in such exalted company.
Could a team become ordinary with extra ordinary players? I think so. Some of our players are exceptional talents, but the team is not, has not been for a couple of seasons now; actually from the time Hleb and Flamini left. That was the last season we were capable of brilliance.
evonne well she has supported them for those years but had a little interference at least three times which stopped her from attending matches. I don’t know anyone else on here that attends more home matches than she does, so good on her.
A couple of ordinary jokes.
Doctor, “Your husband needs some rest and peace. I’ve prescribed some sleeping pills”.
Wife, “When should he take them”?
Doctor, ” They’re for you”
……………………………………………………………
The children were lined up for lunch.
A nun had written on a plate of apples, only one per child – remember God is watching.
Further down the line was a plate of cookies, one of the children said , take as many as you want – God’s watching the apples.
The fact (as I mentioned yesterday) that the Club cannot give away box seats at the moment spells real trouble and the lack of CL Football would impact the club way more than some think, and this is way before I acknowledge Dandan’s gloomy economic prophecy 😦
HA, you know that is not true. You are only as rich as your owners are willing to put into the team. Others have already pointed this out to you. If you would like Usmanov to buy us cups than that is your choice. For me nothing would be more corrupt than that.
It must be hard for you to support the Arsenal at this moment in time. I respect your point of view as always, but it is not mine and I know I cannot convince you to take it easy and wait for Arsene to build another successful team. I think we just have to agree to disagree and I wish you a lovely Saturday evening 🙂
Micky you are spoilig my post, go and sit in the corner 🙂
PHW categorcally stated a year or so before Kroenke was appointed on to the board “we don’t want your kind here”. Do I need to go on.
Kelsey,
Its impossible to attend more than all of them! But there are others on here. 26 and London spring to mind, with a healthy Rasp right behind.
Kelsey,
You know you are dying to say it. “Get out into the rain you miserable git”.
Kelsey – ok, ok, she always beats me hands down 😦
Micky – yeah, that’s my biggest dilemma – an ordinary club is not going to be worth as much as the Mighty Arsenal would be. So, what is Kroenke’s game?? Small, steady income?? That would dwindle rapidly if we cannot sign quality players because of lack of money and absence from CL?? The Uzbek would get it cheaply…it all doesn’t add up.
Unless you are completely right Micky – they fucked up big time in the summer and the plan was to bring BIG players
I’ve been out all day and have come back to read all comments.
😦 😦 😦
Someone pass me the revolver……
TA,
My earnest wish is that AW can build another successful team, but I have serious doubts – and the doubts are not related to AW.
Before we can have harmony on the pitch we need harmony in the dressing room and harmony in the board room and neither appear to be the case today.
Everybody has to be walking (maybe running) the same path to success and it may take a season end “spring clean” to get rid of the cobwebs.
GiE – why? coz you are last on the list with only 10 years of support?
TA,
I have never suggested I want Usmanov to buy us cups. Just to compete and to look like we’re capable of challenging would be good. Gazidis saying we don’t need to qualify for CL is not the rallying cry of a club that wants to compete.
And the mauling at OT was tactical naivety in the extreme. It should never have been allowed to sink to such depths.
Herb, 🙂
You are a cunning old fox, I have no idea what the point was that you were making at 6:09, but it was clearly some sort of algorithm or genetic cyber code, but I have determined that if I apply advanced mathematical principles to the conundrum, I will crack the mathematical sequence eventually! 🙂
Now let me see;
Queen Elizabeth 1 lived for 70 years of which she reigned for 45 years.
Queen Victoria lived for 82 years and reigned for 64 years.
OK, so if I add together the sum of the parts and divide the quotient by the root of e = mc(squared) and multiply the resultant sum by your age; I figure that what you are saying is;
— that the longer you have supported Arsenal the greater the depth of your historical knowledge.
Genius, Herb! Who could argue with that? 🙂
It is interesting that you wrote this post GN5, only yesterday I found myself looking forward to the England game, this is unusual for me and it made me wonder what was going on. The only reason I could come up with was that England now play better football than Arsenal, how did that happen when for years the opposite was true. As it turned out I need not have worried, England were so dull they made Arsenal recent performances look positively exciting.
I’ve just read up the comments, I like Dave Highbury’s comment at 4.49, maybe the end is a bit off but I like the spirit.
Herb said –
And the mauling at OT was tactical naivety in the extreme. It should never have been allowed to sink to such depths.,
………………………………………………………………………
How could you make that comment, due to injuries and transfers (out) we were forced to start with Jenkinson, A. Traore and Coquelin.
Our bench consisted of Fabianski, Chamakh, Lansbury, Oxade – Chamberlin, Miguel, Sunu and Ozakup with Lansbury and Oxade- coming on as subs.
It was all down to the lack of quality players, we were going to lose the minute we walked onto the pitch.
Who can I lodge a complaint with re Joke snaffling?
One of my jokes from 2 days ago has been recycled already, at this rate they will be nicked before i have even written the bastards!! 🙂
—- Red Arse says:
——October 6, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Kids are often able to cut to the chase more readily than adults.
A group of children were lined up in the cafeteria of a local Church of England school for lunch.
At the head of the table was a large pile of apples. The supervising Nun made a note, and posted it on the apple tray:
——– ‘Take only ONE . God is watching.’
Moving further along the lunch line, at the other end of the table was a large pile of chocolate chip cookies.
A child had written a note saying, ‘TAKE ALL YOU WANT — God is watching the apples…’
Refer to 6:28 p.m.
G5, all agreed 🙂
Let’s start with giving AW a bit of time to work with this new team, settle nerves and let them play within a system again in which everyone knows what to do, how to find each other and compete together.
As a fan there is nothing else we can do, and I am just looking forward to seeing the mightly Arse on Sunday again. As I have tickets, I will be a very happy bunny – love for the Arsenal is ageless (just look at Oz’ post yesterday!).
Kelsey @6:15, RE, Herb.
Couldn`t put it better.
Did say it was lighthearted. 🙂
RA`s length of goonerism ?. I think he would bamboozle us with words. We would need Einstein to calculate the relative theory! 🙂
Thanks RA.
It also depends on the propensity of the individual, and their appetite for learning.
I’m not an academic, as has probably been much in evidence on here, but I think if you’re going to swear allegiance to a particular cause, it can’t hurt to swot up and educate yourself a little on who and what that cause is, and what it represents.
GIE,
Hold fire on the revolver (can I say that?) 🙂 because at least TA, DD, Oz and myself were not joining in the moanfest!! 🙂
There is still hope.
Ok RA,
How long do you think I was in the army?
5′ 11″
RRed Arse says:
October 8, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Who can I lodge a complaint with re Joke snaffling?
One of my jokes from 2 days ago has been recycled already, at this rate they will be nicked before i have even written the bastards!! >
………………………………………………………………………..
Could well be that some of us google quicker than yourself………..
Has my Table been tampered with ?. @5:58, Peaches ? 🙂
Copulation = Population
Population = Pollution
Couldn’t argue with that Herb. 🙂
I know you have a good heart, as I have said before, so try not to let the present situation get to you.
Kelsey is probably right and there is an underlying tension in the Arsenal camp, but until he reveals all – we are groping in the dark, and I would rather grope a pair of booblahs than a male appurtenace!! 🙂
Are you going to come quietly?
Or do I have to use earplugs?
Contraceptives should be used in every conceivable position………
RA ,
How long has Elizabeth the 2nd been a gooner? doesn`t seem right if she(one) isn`t top!
We were making love in the back of a truck.
But we got carried away.
Q. Were you present when your picture was taken?
GN5,
whose fault was it that we put out such an inexperienced side that day? Isn’t the summer transfer-window about addressing those issues?
Listening on 5-live last Sunday, the most damning indictment was when the commentator said Arsenal had no-one on the bench who could come on and change the game. Against Tottenham?
In each of the last three seasons Tottenham have beaten us in league games, whilst our only win over them in that same period was an insignificant 3rd Rnd League Cup game last year.
GLIC, 🙂
You should be so lucky to be tampered with by Peaches!!
You can stick me on your table like a 6’5″ moth and 22 years.
Horrifyingly, that is probably 2 years longer than our young Oz has been on this planet!! 🙂
With you on that one RA!
GLIC,
I tampered with your table and I am afraid after some more thought you might not reach the top ten “pop pickers”
Herb,
I agree that the transfer window was a mess, but that has sod all to do with tactic’s.
It’s more to do with the clubs strategy.
We are not ordinary. This will be proved very soon.
Yaay, Terry, 🙂
You might have persuaded GIE not to end it all!!
A conscience is what hurts when everything else feels great………
RA,
I can tell you this that various assets of the late Dannty Fiszman are being sold off rather quickly.Why I know not . I also know that by january we will hear a clear broadcast from kroenke as to certain things that will change within the club.
“behind closed doors” there is going to be a new structure at the club, just wait and see.
Is it true that bills travel though the post twice as quick as cheques?
We are not ordinary. 8-2 at Man Utd and losing to Blackburn is not ordinary. We are nothing like that good.
By the time I make ends meet they’ve been moved.
Is it easier to get forgiveness than permission?
Total @6;16,
AA founders, who are they?, the inner circle, how do you get in it ?.
I`ve heard faint whispers around the Emirates, of a place called the “Tavern”, where a “dodgy handshake” and a packet of “pork scratching`s” gets you an “introduction” leading to an “abduction” followed by an “induction”, only whispers though. 🙂
RA, I just opened the window and heard a gun shot, hope it is not GiE. But then again, as The Beatles sang: ‘Happiness is a warm gun’.
A balanced diet is a burger in each hand….
Hi TA, 🙂
I think it’s OK — GIE is an accountant and would not waste a bullet, unless he was paid — big time!! 🙂
GLIC, let me warn you: you can get in, but you will never get out.
Jeepers Kelsey,
How much more can be revealed tomorrow?
Hi RA 😀 I did not realise GiE is an accountant, somehow believed he was a sollicitor/lawyer!
“A balanced diet is a burger in each hand….”
That is so funny.
GiE, I am driving to the Emirates with my father in law next week Sunday, and you are more than welcome to join us (for free) if you can get hold of a ticket.
GLIC,
Your 7:36 — don’t go there!
I tried to get in once and even went with the pants at half mast, the celery stick in one ear and out the other, but when Peaches brought out the bubbling cauldron and started chanting hubbly jubbly songs I bailed out.
A word to the wise —- and I did not say this — but Rasp looks very fetching in that wizard’s hat and cloak!! 🙂
A salior wakes up on a beach
He’s confused
The beach is purple,
The sea is purple.
The trees are purple
Purple grass, purple birds,
The shock turns his skin – wait for it,- purple.
Oh no, he says – “I think that I’ve been marooned”………….
Kelsey, hold your horseflies, as the BFG would say. Reveal it all tomorrow in a super-juicy post! 🙂
Our future is fantastic. We are going through a short term blip.Not including suger daddies, only Utd are in a stronger position. Be paitent, rewards will be reaped.
London,
I liked your comment about you thinking Arsenal were dull until you saw England. Tell you what, I gave England a swerve and went straight to Rugby. How bad is that?
Ok it only lasted ten minutes, but bugger me, that was a very, very long ten minutes.
Hair Transplant, you are full of fringe benefits 🙂
TA,
No GIE is on my team. 🙂
TMHT,
Only United are stronger?
What about Man C and Chelsea?
Liverpool are not far behind either, maybe even ahead in the short term.
RA, there are a scary number of Accountants on AA, and yet you are all so nice 😛
G5, TMHT probably regards those as sugar daddy clubs.
RA, 🙂
TA, You mind who you are calling nice!! 🙂
Makes no difference to your Fee Note!
I’m definately in the G5/Kelsey camp in thinking there are major boardroom/staff problems, however I think our 1stXI are just about good enough for 4th spot. The problem is that we are so fragile on more than one level.
Incidently, I would regard 4th as a great achievement just now.
RA,
Send him an Invoice for sucking up 🙂
TA,
Although I have never stated so before I would unhappy with a sugar daddy scenario at Arsenal. But that being the case we need to be self sustaining with the appropriate business and footballing strategy.
It would seem, from what Kelsey/Harry are saying that we do indeed have a strategy in place – but it’s not being followed.
Having worked for years in American owned companies I can tell you that they will not be happy with non-compliance to agreed upon strategies…….. and things will change sooner than later.
RA,
Sorry, you beat me to it. Had not seen your 7:59.
MD89,
I would be overjoyed with 4th, that would be an outstanding achievement.
Out of the big clubs we have the most potential, both on and off the pitch. Untapped revenue streams, great young players.
I personaly dont like a lot of things about modern football, been a bit of an old git. However, everything is in place for a very strong future.
Micky, you are my friend and I would never beat you — unless you ask me nicely!!!!!
G5,
In line with your thinking about the American Way, I would be astounded if SK did not have a clear vision. He will also not be happy to potentially see his asset drop in value. Cleary the Fat Blokes’ aquisition of additional shares must have not been in the plan. I still think SK could be very good for Arsenal without being a sugar daddy.
Cheeky (geddit) sod 🙂
MD89,
What we need is a steady infusion of cash to both upgrade and maintain a high class team this needs to come from both club revenues and our owners.
So far the owners are just buying shares and not investing in the team – or so it would appear from the outside.
Micky,
I am probably being boring by repeating myself, but Usmanov stopped Stan from becoming the sole owner and taking Arsenal private. (Private company that is).
The rules are quite different from those that regulate a Public Listed company, especially regarding disclosure of info, and we would never know what was going on (sorry Kelsey) until after the event.
Stan is obviously a very astute businessman, and what is good for him is what would be good for the club too — but if there was a conflict of interest, not necessarily good for the fans.
What do you suppose would happen if any of Abramovich, Sheikh Ya Money or Stan became terminally ill for example? Sell? No Sell?
Fasten your seatbelts and hold tight!!
G5,
I would love to think we could get right back to the top without cash input from the owners and I, maybe naively, think we could do it. There are massive untapped markets, and none more so than in the US, which plays right into our hands. The game is about to explode over there.
RA,
Very fair point and true (checks and balances, I agree make sense), but hasn’t SK acted honourably with all his other business interests? I think he has.
I said ages ago, that 4th would be one of Arsenes finest achievements, considering everything that has happened but cant see it happening. Lots of people keep hoping for a run of decent league results, it aint happening, too many sicknotes !.
We need Bionic players, touble is $6M doesn`t get you much nowadays.
Purely speculation on my part, but I put Hillwood’s comments about “your sort” down to ignorance and an other-worldliness that he lives in!
Both Stan and Usmanov have clear strategies, to make us much money as possible. As long as there isn’t blood on the boardroom carpet and they make there money from capital and plough profits back into the club, i can live with it.
I have no preference with either man but i suspect that since they first invested in the club they have been impressed with its structure and potential They way they have hoovered up shares in the last few years demonstrates this belief.
Make no mistake, Arsenal could be the worlds best club in a very short space of time.
One more thing, what made Utd Englands biggest club? answer Munich. I have traveled a bit and from my experience global fans dont care about history. They crave sucsess and style of play. If we can crack it, then our style of play will make us the worlds number 1 club.
MD89.
The soccer explosion in both Canada and the US has been talked about for the past 15/20 years, while it’s grown in size and peoples levels of awareness it’s still minute in comparison to the traditional North American sports.
Families only have so much disposable income and they will spend it on the sports that they are familiar with i.e. Ice Hockey, Baseball, Basketball and American Football will always be ahead of Soccer, even NASCAR is bigger.
Soccer is still considered a nice sport for their kids to play but not one to spend money to support – which is unfortunate but true.
G5,
I hear that in NJ (all I know about) its now THE sport for boys 14 and under, and lets face it, if the US hits a major recession (I hope it doesn’t)then football prospers.
MD89.
That’s true all over North America but it stops after their school years.
G5,
Going to have to call it a day. Thanks again for post. One of the great things about this site is the civil manner in which different voices can be heard. Bravo and goodnight.
Goodnight MD89 – it’s only 4:15 pm here, been a long day on the keyboard., plus a few sudoku’s and crossword puzzles.
It’s Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada – I get to cook for 15 people tomorrow.
G5,
Excellent post by the way, even though are views differ a bit.
TMHT,
Our views are probably a lot closer than you think – after all we both support Arsenal.
I couldn’t see the point in reading this post, but thanks anyway, gn5. 🙂
Chas,
Each to his own , my friend.
I did really, gn5.
It would be ridiculous not to read a post from an AA regular! 🙂
Chas,
I get it just trying to wind an old fart up, aye.
How dare you call me an old fart!
What would you prefer. A dirty old git?
As a matter of interest, how do people define at what age they first started supporting the club?
Haha, dirty old git is bang on the money. Apologies for leaving my webcam on.
Chas; This is for you and then I have to go and have my supper.
A chap complained of his headaches.
His friend said, “Well, all l do is place my head in my wife’s bosom and the headache goes away”
The next day his friend asked “How did that work”?
” It worked beautifully, he replied, and by the way you have a very nice house”
And what about those who believe in reincarnation? Gooners for lifetimes!
I used to love to troll the spuds fans sites and wind them up. What hurts now is arguably they will finish above us!!!
Chas, I consider my support to have started on Nov 22nd 1947 which was the first time I watched a game at Highbury, but I knew about them years before – family folk lore sent the message.
neamman,
I’m prepared for a poor season but that would be devastating.
gn5,
Don’t leave me hanging.
Is it your first live game?
First game watched on TV?
First item of Arsenal related clothing?
First time you sang at a live game?
First time you were really pissed off when Arsenal lost?
First time you realised your Dad would stop your pocket money if you didn’t support Arsenal?
TA,
So we get our reward in the next life….it all makes sense.
No, seriously, I’ve seen Arsenal win far more in my lifetime (a lot of it first hand) than any spud could hope to see in a dozen lifetimes, so I’m not complaining.
Ahh, first live game.
What about all those around the globe that have never seen The Arsenal play live?
Then again in 1947, you couldn’t really watch a game on TV, could you?
Chas,
Definitely the first game I watched at Highbury, my family never had a TV until 10 years later. We could not afford Arsenal clothing and I’m not even sure if it was available. I sang at every game. We didn’t get pocket money.
Chas, Oops I forgot we did get pocket money – pick pocket that is………….
Very good debate starter GN5…shame I’ve not seen it til now.
Not stopping.
Haha, I put “Nov 22nd 1947 Arsenal” into Google and got this…..
https://arsenalarsenal.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/arsenal-man-and-boy-memoirs-of-a-life-long-gunner/
gn5,
Last question before I go to bed, did you get an answer to the question posed in the title of the post?
Chas, you are probably right. And look at Herb, he is such a fan of Herbert Chapman that he must have lived during the thirties, being a fervent Gooner, and has subsequently reincarnated into a modern-day one between two breaths. That would make him instantly the longest serving Gooner on AA! 🙂
Chas,
The fact is that the answer is different for different people,
Some believe that it’s silverware
Some believe it’s financial stability
I believe that it’s alll about retaining the hope of victory while enjoying our club play outstanding football.
However at this point in time I maintain that we are ordinary.
Goodnight all……………..
Chas, many thanks for the vid and cracking pics yesterday. I could have that Lauren pic as a poster, and use it to scare my kids into their beds
Gn5 – I didn’t want to change your title but I felt that the question could just as easily have been ‘When did Arsenal become ordinary?’
Were we punching above our weight before the loss at Wembley? I remember chatting to Harry even before the Barcelona home game and he was wondering what the fall out would be if we didn’t win the Carling Cup. Those last 10 games when we had the title in our hands and failed miserably were torture week in and week out. That’s when we became ordinary, that’s when suddenly I could see that it was impossible to change anything and we still had Cesc and Nasri in the squad.
Having hit the ground running in recent years, even with new additions, this poor start is just a continuation of where we were at the end of last season and therefore your question is valid ‘Why did Arsenal become ordinary?
TA,
That has gone right over my head. I am a fan of Arsenal first and foremost. Is it wrong to celebrate our history?
We started long before Chapman arrived, at Woolwich, SE London in 1886. Chapman was responsible for winning the club its first major silver-ware.
Or did Arsenal only start for you when AW took charge?
Peaches,
I’ve just finished my supper and I’m getting my second wind, (Hmm maybe it’s a fart)?
Arsenal are undeniably the love of my life, I started kicking rag footballs against the gate on Avenell road when I was 4/5/6 years old. when I was 10 I saw every game at Highbury – one week Ist team next the reserves, then as a teenager I travelled for all away cup games and simply lived and died Arsenal.
It may well be that we became ordinary before this season but it’s here and now that it’s startlingly apparent – sad as it is to say.
Oh how I yearn to once again see the likes of Pires, Henry, Bergkamp et.al, but I fear that may just be and old fart’s pipe dream……………
Herb, TAs point was a joke in reference to reincarnations.
I did not use the revolver……
TA if i’d known earlier I would have taken you up on your kind offer, unfortunately only tickets left are Upper Tier back behind Clock End and that really is not an enjoyable part of the ground for me, altho might be feeling differently if it sells out and there are Ticket Exchange available. When I was looking earlier inthe week I realised that there is replacement bus service on train line meaning the 2 hour trip was going to become nearly 3 hours.
Evening Gn5
Been out apple picking all day.
Thanks for a very well argued post. The best way I can describe my response to it is like this:
You have outlined exactly what I fear is the situation at our club, but my hopes for what the situation may be are much more positive.
The pessimist and the optimist within me are at loggerheads. We may well be headed for a period of ordinariness; but it may be that our players will start to click, some of our sick notes will return and in a few weeks we’ll be way up the table.
Ok GiE, thanks for clraring that up.
Hopefully you’ll bring us some much needed luck against Sunderland
Rocky,
I’m always hopeful, but the last 18 EPL games have left me pessimistic about our chances this seaso and onward.
The behind the scenes nonsense has left the club in precarious position. For many months, nay years, I’ve had the blinkers on – but now I see it all too clearly – and I don’t like what I (think I) see.
@ GLIC
permit me to hold up your list. When i was a little oz i used to watched taped games with my nan (sent over from relatives still living in england as we did not have football on tv over here). She would obsess over alan smith, and her all time favourite was peter storey. In 97 i got my first arsenal shirt (albeit from bali) with my favourite player ‘adams’ written on the back. I wore it every game when we played indoor soccer on fridays after school (4 years, 4 first place trophies, including a penalty shootout final win against 15 yr olds (it was an under 12’s comp). We had 1 chilian, 3 italians, 1 burmese, and a defence of 1 Maori + 1 lonely Oz. Anyway besides the odd game i only saw the great arsenal on ‘game of the week’ and the 1 hour premier league wrap up show. Thankfully arsenal were big time so i could watch them pretty much most weeks from then on, and haven’t missed a game for a long time (if its not on, i’ll download it (always have to with FA cup matches). So i’ll go with when i first got my adams shirt, therefore:
Oz gunner = a paltry 14 years of support.
@ RA
Swing your original evaluation of my age by 4 and your bang on the money
@ Kelsey
i await with great eagerness
Oz,
But it the good thing is that your years of support are all ahead of you, whereas mine are mostly behind me,
I understand Gn5.
And the dark rumors based on ‘inside knowledge’ hardly inspire confidence.
But for now I’m keeping the blinkers on… I still believe AW can turn this round.
What I don’t understand about the internal rumblings is if funds were made available and not being spent I would expect a ruthless American owner to cull the manager. Also I would think that with the manager at his lowest in the fans views why wouldn’t they it’s not like they would be upsetting fans by doing so.
If Wenger had funds why didn’t he, after all it was he who first said expect a big summer.
The only comments to come out of SK and IG are in line with our spending. It does not benefit either man to support the Managers apparent inaction if they care about fan opinion of them. That’s why the rumours aid unrest about spending at least do not add up to me.
As I’ve said before its going to be a long season and our support will be tested. But i’m not writing us off until December. Let’s see where we are then.
@ GiE and Rocky
i agree
times may be troubled but i will not say we are done until it is mathematically impossible. If the team doesn’t gell and we are struggling come the new year then obviously answers need to be given, and key points addressed. I feel we would not be in this position with Verm and Jack, so to say we are finished is unfair
GiE,
You say (2:25) that if funds were available and not spent you would expect AW to be culled, but if the funds thing is true, might it not be the negotiating team who were at fault ie Dick Law.
I’m sure the late Nasri shenanigans didn’t help planning, but who were AW’s targets?
Many here have rightly said, in my opinion, that the Manager should hand over a list of targets and leave it to others (hence the calls for the AW/DD kind of teamwork). Maybe his list read one of Mata/Hazard/Gotze, plus one of Parker/Mvila, and both Mert and Cahill. Who knows, but his comment about writing a book about the summer certainly suggests monumental cock-ups.
Oh and Morning all.
Great discussion on here yesterday, and I’m expecting an equally stirring post from our Man in Spain. Quite an achievement for a footballess interlull weekend.
Hi Mickey,
if my post is used today debate amongst yourselvs as i won’t be around until the afternoon to answer any question directed specifically at myself.
Kelsey,
Well, let’s get it over and done with now. What else do you know, and only then will we untie you?
Morning all,
My pleasure, Sharkilus.
Here’s your gravatar picture if you ever bother getting one.
http://twitpic.com/6xileg/full
K,
While you are out bowling and toe dipping in swimming pools, I’m off to Halfords to buy snow chains and toboggans!
No micky I am off to the airport with my wife to pick up our son or to him Mummy and Daddy Bank.
In other words, you are going to be complimented on everything from your shoes to your eyebrows, until you have a few glasses of sangria sloshing around within. At that point, out pops the bill!
Sorry everyone, just doing some editing …………….
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