Written by Wonderman
I’m not going to waste time with a calm orderly build up to the match proceedings followed by detailed analysis of each half and an ending. In a nutshell Villa came to the grove (not for the first time in recent seasons ) with a game plan. Not only did they have a game plan, but they executed it perfectly, accompanied by our continued dose of defendinitus.
I was having problems getting the team news on my phone, so was a little surprised when I finally got to my seat to see Squillaci and Gibbs starting as well as the welcoming sight of TV. I must admit I wondered to myself about the wisdom of having a centre back who hadn’t played for 8 months and another who hadn’t played in a while in the centre of your defence with a player like Darren Bent lurking, but I dismissed it.
I was also still mulling over the scenes I had seen outside the stadium with the chants of ‘Hill Wood Out’ ‘We want our Arsenal back’ and ‘We hope you choke on your caviar’ that were being sung by quite a few fans at the roundabout near The Armoury on my way in, especially as when it mattered the Villa fans out sang us for large parts of the game.
10 minutes in Squillaci breaks his defensive line and is completely unaware of Bent’s whereabouts, we don’t press the ball, by the time he realises he is behind him, Bent has chested the delivery down and nudged it past Szczesny 0-1. Not even 5 minutes later Sagna commits the cardinal sin of full back play by being behind his centre back’s line therefore playing in Bent again to slot through Szczesny’s legs 0-2 game over. We hadn’t started at all and Villa were nullifying both Sagna and Gibbs. Walcott and Arshavin couldn’t get in the game and we kept misplacing passes. Yes we had a shout for a penalty against Ramsey and we hit the post, but the first half was lethargic and one dimensional.
At half time the players were roundly booed off the pitch.
In the second half Squillaci was replaced by Chamakh with Song dropping into CB. The first few minutes saw a spark of urgency, but that soon fizzled out once Villa settled themselves, Chamakh had what looked like a perfectly good goal ruled out for a push and Van Persie continued his scoring run to make it 2-1.
But we have some real issues at our beloved. From my perspective when you have more enthusiastic chanting outside the stadium, than in it some of our fans need to look at themselves. Especially when the stadium rang out to the chorus of
“ 6% you’re having a laugh !!” several times. By the time the game finished and the players did their parade of appreciation the stadium was half empty ( not to say there were anywhere near the 60,000 that was announced in attendance ). But the most concerning thing for me was witnessing fans almost coming to blows because one guy decided to boo the players on their walk of appreciation to the exception of quite a few around him.
I am not a fan of booing my own players, because as someone who has ran several teams myself (albeit several levels below Arsenal) over the years. I can’t think of a less effective motivation tool
I understand the frustration of thousands but I believe we are turning our club into a Roman amphitheatre…we have a critical summer ahead of us .
Arsenal News 24/7
arsenalarsenal.net 
You won’t get major surgery Rasp, these players can perform on their day.Definitely reduce the number of squad players and it would be nice for cesc to actually say one way or another if he is staying or going.
I think there is more to it than we all know.I believe there is friction amongst too many overpaid players but above all there has been no consistency all season.
is it the defence as half the goals we concede are from set pieces or is it the attack which is misfiring or is it not tracking back or are the attacking midfield players not as quyick as earlier on this season.
So many questions yet not a conclusive answer.
(as requested by peaches)
Thanks for the report Wonderman.
All very sobering stuff and a very sad last home game. It is impossible to say that all our players are deserving of our proud shirt, to say nothing of their monthly envelope.
good post!
its better to turn our club into roman amphitheatre than be under this manager for season cos everyone knows what is gonna happen next season
i want to be wrong on this but i wont be
Woo, that report cuts straight to the quick. All very true.
Ah, I have just managed to think of a positive from yesterday’s game…….after three pathetic corners taken by Arshavin, Ramsey stepped up for the next and put it in an area that gave one of our players a chance and that is exactly what happened…Vermaelen came very close with a header that just went over the bar.
Clutching at straws, moi?
Yesterday was a poor poor day.3 wins since the cup defeat.Surely there’s problem deeply rooted as the same happened last season.Really cheap goals.But good to see verminator back.
There are questions I’d like to ask from fellow gooners:
London,
Here’s another positive. If you put in a decent cross, Chamakh can score. Its a kind of 4-4-1-1 Plan B. Does require decent crossers of the ball though.
Morning London,
Very difficult to take positives from yesterday. Freidel had the easiest game he has had against arsenal for years. The only players in my opinion who played liked they cared were Van Persie, Song and Wilshere. Those fans who left at the end of the game, I can uderstand that and they showed their frustration by voting with their feet. But those who stayed behind to boo the players and their families…I just dont understand what they hope to accomplish
I don’t think Arshavin, Cesc or RvP should take corners – the first two because they just float the ball in and are better used on the edge of the box and RvP because he should be in the box getting on the end of the corner. Sureyl wingbacks should be able to cross the ball and therefore take corners – if not that Ramsey and Theo maybe?
Forgetting my manners,
Thanks for a hard hitting report Wonderman – it shows a lot more fighting spirit than some of our players yesterday. I knew when the team was announced that we were going to be lightweight, but not that insipid.
The highlight for me was TV’s return. To see him leaping early like a Salmon and winning headers against much taller players was a joy, but he also showed his captain’s credentials by surging forward and driving play at times.
Morning Guys,
First, WM, tremendous effort to remain calm and dispassionate in your report, despite the obvious despondency you are feeling. Well done! 🙂
I also feel for all you fans who made the effort to go to the game and suffered what was a humiliatingly poor performance. It was bad enough watching it on TV and feeling a numb, disbelieving sense of despair.
We all talk about needing to reinforce our defense, but apart from Sagna, the other 4 defence players, including the GK, have had only a handful of appearances this season. There can be no surprise that they fell apart in the first 15 minutes, although, oddly, Sagna, messing up the offside, was the chief culprit for one of them.
It is pointless really to comment about individual players though. There is a deep malaise running thru’ the team and, dare I say it, even the manager, at the moment.
I made the observation, months ago, that I would have preferred Usmanov to become the major shareholder and was shouted down with a mixture of ‘he is a crook’, and ‘we don’t want to buy trophies … blah, blah’.
My reason for preferring Usmanov was simple.
I cannot get into other peoples morals, especially as I have no knowledge of them, so choosing between Kroenke who is a businessman out, for commercial gain (profits), which he will do while keeping his costs (transfer funds) as low as possible, and Usmanov who simply wants to pour money into Arsenal, for his own enjoyment and gratification, there seems only one choice, out of two evils.
Forget Platini’s idea of linking tranfer funds to a club’s ability to finance them from their own resources, there are far too many vested interests for that to work.
If we want to win trophies, and play the attractive football we have become used to, we need to attract the very best footballers. To do that we need to have the funds to attract them.
Competition in the next few years will intensify, and unless we all want to cry into our blogs every year, we need to play on a level surface and join those clubs who have benefactors who have a driving ambition to win, not make money out of us!
6.5% your having a laugh? You have not seen anything yet with Mr Kroenke!!
Rasp,
I agree with wholeheartedly your theory about corner takers, and it ties in nicely with my own that one of the players we buy in needs to be a specialist dead ball maestro.
Morning Kelsey,
I think you are right there wont be major surgery. But there are real issues to be attended to
1. Van Persie has shown he is world class, but we KNOW about his fitness issue. We need to enlist another proven striker. Preferably one who plays on the shoulder of defenders
2. Squillaci has been a mistake in my opinion, we need to buy a proven centreback from another premier league club…they cant do worse
3 We need wingers (self explanatory) I would take a punt on Shaun Wright-Phillips
4.The whole team need to learn how to defend. Yesterday having Walcott and Arshavin both on the pitch at the same time was laughable defensively
Wonderman,
Can I refer you back to my comment about earning their monthly envelope with regards to both Arshavin and Walcott.
Wonderman,
You are correct that booing is not productive, but it is understandable.
It is simply a way for venting frustration, a bit like some bloggers who come on here and elsewhere and let off steam.
The cerebral part of the brain says it is stupid to shout abusively or to boo, but the human, animalistic part wants to let rip.
It is akin to laughing at something funny, or yawning at something boring. Both pointless in themselves but it is an inbuilt form of expressing ourselves that will never change.
Spot on about a proper centre forward Wonderman. Bent showed us what we are missing – a clinical striker to spearhead the attack, who pins the opposition’s defence back and has only one thing in his mind – to get in a position to have a shot.
RA, very very good points, so what you’re saying is if you are a big club act like a big club !!
Hi Rasp, yesterday , for me was one of the worse feelings, strangely not because of the result, but because of the increasing division amongst us. Previously I had witnessed arguements between our fans and opposition fans who had foolishly boaught/accepted tickets in the home section and celebrated a goal. but to see arsenal fan square up to arsenal fan…very disconcerting.
As you say when you look at the starting line up it was a recipe for disaster.
RA
I understand why some people boo, just as I understand the dad that follows his kid up and down the side of the pitch screaming instructions. But I ask does the kid all of a sudden improve. Do our players all of a sudden respond to being booed. I would ask serious questions of anyone who signs for arsenal and needs to be booed to perform !
That is a really good point about Bent: he plays in a postion that he is made for, thats to say he is a centre forward and he plays as a centre forward…………….where as….and this list is long.
RVP is not a CF and yet he has to play there
Arshavin is not a left winger and yet he has to play there.
Walcott is not a right winger and yet he has to play there.
Song is not an attacker and yet he has to play there.
Wilshere don’t get me started.
Squilaci is not really a CB and yet he has to play there lol.
We have so many square pegs in round holes.
Morning all – trying to find positives from yesterday: A great drink up with the AA’ers and less dissension amongst the fans than expected – it was more anger/dejection directed at the board.
Thanks for the report, it wasn’t easy writing up another loss but if you guys are suckers for more punishment my version is over here:
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2011/man-at-the-match-chary-arsenals-season-distilled/#comments
Morning London,
How do you fancy Drogba in an Arsenal shirt?
dont worry people
dont have high hopes of signing top class players he hasnt done that for a long long time
so whats the point discussing
Rasp
Far more than I would fancy him in an Arsenal skirt.
Arsenal fan
What’s the point in discussing it?
Well, if we didn’t discuss such topics the conversation would finish in approximately ten minutes.
Raspers – he(Drogba) would do a job for us for a few years but realistically he’ll only leave the chavs if they force him out – perhaps if they buy another striker as a first-choice marquee signing.
An actual striker rather than a number 10 or a converted winger; now thre’s a novelty!
Funnily enough rasp drogba would be great but maybe for one season and then we have the wages issue.
Squillacci was a bad buy,yet Kos will turn into a very good player for us.
Walcott continues to disappoint he like Arshavin drifts in and out of games to much for my liking.
I reckon there weren’t much more than 40 to 45 thousand there,and many so called supporters are quite fickle,whilst the opposite can be said of our away support which has been fantastic all season.
Not quite a disaster but a lot of thinking to be done in the summer.
i know even i want to discuss it but wenger doent sign players of known quality last one i knew was arshavin
anyway drogba for us will be great ,or benzema
Kelsey and Wonderman
You may be right in predicting that there won’t be major surgery, but to my mind, it is absolutely vital that it does happen, and early in the transfer window.
The current squad needs to be culled. The easy ones (in my opinion) are Arshavin, Almunia, Squillaci, Vela Diaby, and Rosicky, plus a selection of the squad members. The tough ones are which of Cesc, Nasri and Clichy to flog (perhaps in both senses of the word)?
As for acquisitions, we need top quality players, and I’m sorry but a player like Shaun Wright-Philips is exactly what I don’t want to see – we need much better than him in order to go into the next season able to fight for the top places. The good thing about next season is that United and Chelsea still have serious problems in their squads, so we can still think about competing for top spot; the bad thing is City. Liverpool and Spurs will be threats but they won’t have much cash to spend this summer and I still think we should look at them as marginally inferior. Not that it’s clear.
arsenal fan
Why do you think it is that Wenger doesn’t sign “players of known quality”?
26 May,
I agree about players who should go but just say you are right and we bring in 4 or 5 players it will take time for the team to adjust and possibly to the extent that we drop further down the table in the short term.
The BoD want financial stability first and foremost and 30 million (as quoted) isn’t exactly a war chest.If you add the amount we would get for perhaps Clichy,Nasri or Cesc it would be boosted but not by enough to buy several players in this crazy inflated market.
Wonderman, sorry, my manners went out of the window – thanks for a very good post, in trying times!
Yeah good point it won’t improve the team one bit and what we might see is a lot of players not wanting to play for us becasue of this. But the problem being is that the invincibles created this expectation and without having the investment needed to maintain that team we’ve been in transition since.
I believe it is one thing Wenger and the board didn’t take into account, but i certainly know one man who did, David Dein who from the off knew the dangers and competion billionaire investment would bring, and went about trying to get our own sugar daddy. He was ostracized from the board for his views and actions . Now what has subsequently happened becasue of the boards reluctance for a big investor, is as Fans we’re paying the price for that windfall with more expensive tickets.
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist but this has led to fans believing that the team isn’t worthy of the money their paying compared to the other teams around us who pay less for tickets yet see a higher investment in the team. This is totally down to the board in my eyes, yes it’s great we have a business model but fans want to see one thing and won’t stand for sub par performances like yesterday with the prices their paying.
We’ll see what next season brings with financial fair play and how strong these players actually are. I for one support the team but believe the board have treated the fans wrong for a long period it’s just a shame the players seem to get most of the slack for this, when the board our clearly testing fans loyalties by putting them at financial risk whilst they sit on their tidy earnings.
Hi chary,
I don’t think the chavs would sell us Drogba, but I’m sure he’d do a job for a season or two.
Kelsey
I agree, making wholesale and multiple changes is very, very tough, and goes against the grain for all of us, and certainly does for Wenger. But it is still required.
And there is some stability from being able to promote from within: Lansbury, Frimpong, Miyaichi, Emmanuel-Thomas, Mannone, Miquel, Afobe and Coquelin could all be brought through.
And perhaps yesterday was a bit of a job interview for Kieran Gibbs – and despite some poor performances this season, he did better than most yesterday.
As for the need to balance the books, I agree, there will be financial limits – but I see no reason we can’t generate enough from all the sales we could make, when combined with the £30m/£40m in the acculumated ring-fenced transfer account, to create a pot of the size we need to fund transfer fees and salaries to bring in the likes of Vertonghen, Benzema, Hazard etc. Thanks to the players’ failures, we start from a weak negotiating position, but as Liverpool showed in January, well chosen big purchases can have a rejuvenating impact.
I resent the fact that the players’ performance in the last ten games has created a crisis situation but it is what it is. I just hope, pray, that Wenger responds to the situation as he needs to – there was a time for stubbornness and having faith; that time has gone, now is the time for ruthless and radical change.
Why buy Drogba when we can have Kalou?
lol Wenger will break the transfer record for Kalou.
Hi 26, if not Wright Phillips then who do you suggest ? for me he is more of a winger than Walcott ever will be
Secondly, I dont see Liverpool as being threats at all. It is easy to look good when you are getting lots of rest inbetween games with no expectation. next season will be different.
I agree with your cullings with theexception of Diaby, I think he should be given 1 more year
Thanks for the report WM- I missed the game yesterday but received news of the result with a feeling of inevitability. “The only players in my opinion who played liked they cared were Van Persie, Song and Wilshere.”… that’s been the case for a couple of games now- thank god for those 3 or it would be unending misery.
A sad end to the season and the only way to improve the vibe for the start of next season is some serious activity in the transfer window. I thought it interesting that Nasri to Bayern was a weekend bit of gossip- especially as there is some significant weight to rumours that Ribery might be coming our way. Both clubs might see that as a good deal no?
Of course- once the season starts, new signings won’t be enough if we still have “defendinitus”- (great term WM) I really hope AW prioritises clean sheets and fast breaks in his pre-season training…
Several of us have been saying, like Rasp, that Drogba would be an excellent signing. With one year left on his contract, he might be gettable.
Wonderman that is a spot on and accurate match report.
Someone infront of me at the end said at least there’s no papering over cracks after the last ten games. And that is so true.
I criticised RedAction area yesterday here are some of the comments I heard:
“Get up Jack you wimp”
“Arsene won’t like that” (after Jack blazed a volley over from 20 yards)
“Theo you’re useless”
Everyone has their right to express an opinion but this is RedAction. Unwavering support right?
The same faces yesterday make up the majority of the away support, but they don’t make the same noise at home…..why not?
Having said all that there were more tourists there yesterday than I have ever seen at the Emirates.
One positive about RedAction they did actually give a lot of support to NikB, this is something that has always been true of Gooners we appreciate energy and effort.
Funniest chant
“I’m Arsenal til I’m skint”
Thanks for the post.
Red arse. Re Usmanov. How do you know he wants to “pour money in for his own gratification”? Even if he does that becomes impossible in 2 years because of the uefa and fifa rules.He asked for dividends that doesn’t strike me as someone who is only interested in spoending.
That’s the thing Raspers – the Chavs would hate to strengthen a competitor, yet we sell Kolo and the whore to Arab City and Cashley to the Chavs.
Whoi knows, maybe if Ancellotti gets the sack, Drogba will storm out of the chav gulag in a hissy fit and play for us.
Probably a pipe dresm though.
I am always amazed at fans calling for this player or that player to be signed having never watched a single game that they have played in on tv nevermind live.
I watched Emmanuel- Thomas playing for Cardiff in the playoffs the other day, and I have to say I struggled to see where he would fit in our system
Does anyone think that changing 2 or 3 players will solve our problems?
GiE
The reason there were more tourists is that the tickets were still available last week as a lot of ST holders put them on the exchange. I’m so glad I didn’t get one.
Hi Wonderman
Personally, I’d stick with Walcott, and would sign a true winger for the left side (Ashley Young would be the one I would go for). But to be honest, despite spending stupid amounts of time reading and thinking about football, I can’t pretend to have the answers – I just really don’t think SWP is up to the mark! Sorry!
As for Diaby, is there a player who divides Gooner opinion more effectively? I really think he’s had his chances, and he’s shown weaknesses that have the look of permanence. He has talent, I just don’t think it will ever blossom in England. France or Italy, perhaps, but not here and not for us. Cash in, I say.
No. Players are not the problem for me it is the philosophy, coaching and medical team.
GM – I feel we need 4 or 5 AND a change in defensive coach and I would have said a new number 2 but we now know P Rice is staying so that point is, as Del boy would say, “epidemic”
Wonderman,
how remiss of me for not thanking you for writing today’s post in these frustrating times.
I have to acknowledge how most on here are being sensible and quite restrained compared to other blogs who are literally going mental and playing championship manager.
GiE,
I am not the biggest Bendtner fan, but I feel he has been given a real raw deal. He does not have the attributes to play where he is often played, yet still comes up with a good goal return.
If Chamakh becomes more greedy we have a player on our hands
The feeling of frustration was tangible yeserday, but I dont think the club help themselves , especially announcing 60,000 were in the stadium !
26 on SWP lets agree to disagree. You make very good points on Diaby, and you maybe right, but I just have a feeling next season he will either explode or implode …..
im off for a few hours
Wonderman
You’re right, we all fall victim to throwing names of potential recruits around without knowing enough about them to make a real judgment (e.g., the enthusiasm for Neuer after the first game vs United, which subsided after the second game).
But I (and no doubt others) have seen quite a bit of Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, thanks to stupidly expensive subscriptions to Arsenal TV, as well as coverage from his loan exploits at Doncaster, Blackpool and Cardiff. The problem with JET is where to play him in any system, but the boy has so much talent, and is bloody big too. I don’t know if he would make the final transition to top-class player, but he is a very exciting prospect and could be a big player for us.
I also think we should change our playing system (not asking for much, I know!). The 4411 in the second half yesterday worked much better, not for the first time, and I’d like to see us accept that we don’t have what it takes to make the 4231 work, especially against sides that concentrate on defending.
Good point Wonderman, I always squirm when they announce the attendance. It is quite simply a lie, they are not giving the attendance, they are saying how many tickets have been sold. If they want to know the attendance figures, that will be revealed by the numbers through the turnstyles. It is not particularly important but it is indicative of some of the rather patronising spin that is dished out – particularly through Arsenal.com
Completely agree re real attendance figures – and what’s wrong with just saying X thousand tickets were sold and Y thousand fans are in attendance? Incredibly easy to do in this electronic age. Better than the ridiculous nonsense of telling us there are thousands of people at the ground when they aren’t.
Morning all, good debating article wonderman well done
RA…. I am surprised that you would give any legitimacy to the low lifers who boo our players, booing is about as much use as tits on a tomcat, and says more about the boo’ers than the players
No one forces fans to go to matches any more than a team decides to have a bad run. Winning is a habit and confidence is a fragile thing, made worse by booing idiots. Who is going to ask for the ball if he knows that it will lead to, booing or verbal abuse for any mistake or ironic cheers if he does something half decent. Conversely booing someone from the opposition purely because he once played for say Spurs, is again unfunny, counter productive and juvenile.
We have had a bad run, it happens, the league could have gone any one of four ways this year, we were not alone in having bad periods. Its just ours has come at the end of the season.
Are we therefor going to spend the close season wallowing like kids in our own self pity or act like grown ups. Pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and look forward to some summer changes and a bright new season.
Honestly all this down in the dumps stuff reminds me of how I felt about a former girlfriend, I didn’t realise just what a sex object she was, until every time I asked for sex she objected.
We have been here before, no doubt we will be again but in between, as the song says are the special years, lets look forward to the possibility of another invincibles emerging as Arsene balances and redifines the side for next year
Guys,
With regard to the ‘attendance’ figures I have never seen the point of announcing them.
a) I don’t care how many were there, If I am not! 😦
b) I don’t care how many were there, if I was! 🙂
c) Kroenke bragging about how much they have made? 😦
I’ve always cringed at the way our PA guy always says “And the attendance today is 60,317; that’s six zero three one seven”. As if anyone, bar a couple of Rainman types, actually wants to be sure of the precise figure.
Hi Dandan, 🙂
I did not realise I was giving legitimacy to the boo boys.
What I was saying is that it is part of the human ethos to express our coarser feelings by frowning, glaring, shouting, spitting, getting red faced (as opposed to red arsed) and booing etc.
The same is true for expressing happiness by smiling, laughing, clapping, cheering, farting (well with mirth 🙂 ).
It was/is a simple observation and while some of us try to suppress the coarser element, I suspect all of us, at some time, have lost our tempers and shouted, glared, yelled, sworn etc and then been ashamed to have succumbed to our baser instincts.
I do not condone any of it, but step forward the saint who claims never to have done so. 🙂
Hi RA we all have a good curse and a moan from time to time as our frustrations show. But it is the orchestrated booing that “does my head in” bit like the wife telling you what’s wrong with your driving when you are perfectly aware that you nearly killed the poor sod on the bike. 🙂
I do not “boo” for a couple of reasons. One is that I do not like sheep mentality, and the other is that I don’t like either the sound or the pursing of the lips as the whole process makes me feel about eight years old. This leaves me a problem. Without yelling out well constructed sentences, is there a sound I can make to show my feelings towards some overpaid ponce who is not pulling his weight? A Pink Card maybe.
😆 micky,
Instead of booing, I think you should grow a waxed moustache like the go compare guy and just roll the ends between your fingers whilst looking skyward.
I was there with other AA’ers and I’d bet dandan’s house that none of us booed. I actually felt sorry for the players in their lap of errrr, lap of errrrr, lap of errrrrr…… their lap – shows how soft I am.
I thought the booing at half time was more for the ref and the booing at the end was more for the result than the players, but maybe I’m wrong.
Well done, Wonderman.
What a sad end to the season. If only we’d scored that goal 30 mins earlier, the ref hadn’t been shocking and we hadn’t played like completely uninterested novices for the first 20 minutes. 🙂
Tits on a tomcat and overpaid ponce made me laugh. Thanks lads.
Same old arsenal…we’ll probably make the same mistakes all over again, ie. Sell a key player (cud be any of Fabregas, nasri, clichy), buy relatively unknown and unproven talent, and add a bit of ‘experience’ (silvestre and squilaci).
Like some others have said, I laso believe there is a fundamental problem which runs through the team, and honestly untill that issue is addressed, we could go and buy kaka, ineista, chicarito, gary cahil etc and still have the team churn out the same performances.
Sadly enough, we all know wenger won’t make any marquee signings, let alone make wholesale changes to the sqaud. As to whether he improves on his backroom staff we are yet to see, but from all accounts (from the last six seasons) next season will be another huge disappointment. We need no reminding that in adition to man utd and chelsea, man city is becoming a growing force. Tottenham and liverpool won’t be slouching either. So if Arsene and the Board don’t get their act together, we soon be hailing the ‘mental strength’ of a mid table team.
Players weren’t booed.
It was Wenger, the hierachy and the decisions that they make / have made that were booed.
Adrian
We get this every year. I don’t think we’d slip out of the top four. I’ve heard this stuff about the spuds catching us up as long as I’ve been blogging. I do however agree that we aren’t ging to move forward or win trophies unless there is a change over and beyond playing staff.
Chas,
I am not talking to you until you bin the k d lang pic, and reinstate Nigella. Standards Matey.
Rasp it is interesting how things change, in times past attendances were always under quoted, in order to confound the tax man. Many an ironic cheer has gone up as figures were announced back in the standing days.
Wedged in like sardines almost unable to breath in the swaying, surging crowd you would likely be told there were five thousand less attendees than last home game when you had the freedom of the borough.
The word attendance means people who attend so to announce a figure based on anything else is misleading at best and in yesterday’s case it was a plain lie.
All this does, as others have pointed out above, is perpetuate a feeling of mistrust between the club and supporters.
And that is hardly conducive with wanting to passionately sing your heart out, is it?
Great write-up WM. You’re right – this end-of-season collapse does feel qualitatively different from previous.
One slight concern I have – now that we are almost certain to finish fourth, will the club be tempted to hold off making ‘big’ signings until after they find out whether we have pre-qualified for the CL?
Wonderman, heart felt and can touch the frustration…
@Raso, agreed I thought the booing at half time was for the officials and at the end it was a mixture of frustrations, result, performance and officials…I did not boo the players!! never have never will…..
Chas, agreed we should have scored earlier, oops, stop me dead, we did….I watched that 20times last night and still cannot see how he felt that was a push to gain advantage or anything…..
I nearly fell off my sofa laughing at Dunne who claimed he got the ball…..
And as for the commentator, who said Villa deserved their 2 goal lead, just after chamack’s goal was disallowed and also the penalty which was stick on, how do two officials fail to see that is beyond me….
As I wrote last night:
Our season of failure is a balance between:
Refs Ineptitude v Our Lack of Belief / Mistakes etc
and right now I cannot make my mind up which way that falls…….
How many decisions in this land of swings and roundabouts and it all evens out actually go our way?
Dandan@1138 ish:
“””We have had a bad run, it happens, the league could have gone any one of four ways this year, we were not alone in having bad periods. Its just ours has come at the end of the season.
Are we therefor going to spend the close season wallowing like kids in our own self pity or act like grown ups. Pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and look forward to some summer changes and a bright new season.”””
Exactly, but unfortunately with it been at the end of the season those who cannot see past their own views will find it very hard to comprehend……and we will suffer the infighting all summer I feel……
If AFC use the pa system to make an announcement, and it is met with boo’s, then on the whole that is not good.
Its emabarassing and pathetic.
Hi London, I made the same point earlier regarding the ‘attendance lie’.
As for an intimidating atmosphere, the Ems is no cauldron, it is much more mattress than fortress and things like ‘The Wonder of You’, Gunnersaurus and the ludicrous attendance announcement only serve to undermine the fervour of supporters.
at london-
most of them say he cant handle big name players the one that speak against him in the dressing room get transferred out
Hey lads,
I was about to say that it is time for Wenger to go, but in the nick of time along comes a scapegoat we can all unite against and give a relentlessly hard time to all summer. Yip, the Dinnasour.
I wonder if any of those Glencore executives support Arsenal?
Sack the dinosaur.
However you spell his ‘effing name, he is overpaid and has no idea how to motivate and inspire whatsover.
Green Out!
Jeepers,
This is working for me already and its only May!
Wow, Arsenal Fan
Wenger can’t handle big name players, do you believe that?
micky,
I’ve divulged this piece of secret info before ….. it’s actually David Dein inside Gunnersaurus but don’t tell the Board – they can’t sack him as they already have 😕
Jesus how the hell does an official announcement that any one with half a brain knows includes all season tickets, whether used or not effect the fervour of the supporters.
As I have previously said this has been standard practice for football teams since that skinny chicken first sat on the spuds ball.
Just as company petrol in many instances gets used to take fans to games without the private mileage being increased on expense forms. The club no doubt have there reasons
What if we were happy hammers today, would we be worrying about a dodgy attendance announcement.
.
Wonderman. Thank you for a balanced post in difficult times.
I am in the huge minority who think we were not so terrible yesterday. I totally disagree that only 3 players fought – are you really saying that Ramsey (who covered every blade of grass) Sagna (who worked his nuts off as usual) Vermælen (who was tigerish yesterday), Chesney (who made a brilliant stop from Downing) didn’t fight?
Because if you are I will have to ask you to step outside.
The appalling refereeing and bad luck (twice hitting woodwork) cost us the game. I thought we played well apart from those awful first 20 mins.
The only player who I felt didn’t put in a shift was AA, and that was primarily because every single thing he tried didn’t come off and his head went down. Even Theo was constantly coming inside to link with RvP.
Oh, and Squillaci is sadly not of PL quality.
Accept that AV defended very well and in Bent they have a clinical finisher.
arsenal fan, I think you are confusing Wenger with Ferguson when it comes to shipping out dissenting voices.
The one thing that does worry me is – are some of the players more loyal to Arsène than Arsenal? Obviously it should be both, but maybe he nurtures and protects them too much.
Rasp,
We have an unsackable Dinosaur?
See what I mean then, a total lack of accountability from the very top to the very bottom. We are far more trouble than I thought.
Arsenal Fan. 1.11. Give names, prove your case. I am afraid I think your statement is complete rubbish
DD. I think the club will stop announcing attendances over the PA. What is the point?
Micky. Plus he looks as though he missed pre-season. The big man is carrying a lot of timber.
Will or should BR,?
DD. Should 🙂
Agreed Sir
i dont beleive it but everyone says so
wait i love arsenal but its just got a bit of stale of late
dandan,
You and I are never going to agree on this one. I agree the Ems crowd is poor for a number of reasons, but I think it comes way down the list of factors that can be held responsible for the performance of the team.
Do other top sportsmen in tennis, rugby, cricket etc etc ever blame the crowd for losing a game? The diversion of the crowd is a smokescreen, we all wish it was more like our romantic memory of the old Highbury.
I used Gunnersaurus as one of a few things that epitomise the over protective way the club present match day. Many supporters are embarrassed at the invitation to sing the players surnames.
Excellent article. I am amazed to see how the feeling has changed from just 2-3 weeks ago when we beat MU comprehensively. I count myself in as yes..this end of season does seeem different.
My suggestions:
1] Pick the best Leader, not the bet player as captain. We havent had a great leader since PV4. If the current players dont have a natural leader in them, go buy one.
2] Defensive coach is essential.
3] Defensive coach is essential.
4] Defensive coach is essential.
5] hen you need extra attacking threats..dont play Chamack and Bendtner on the wings!!!
Put them up font and bing RVP behind them.
6] Get another DM who can break up the play on Song’s off days.
For all the above I think we are in a good situation, I feel we are one coach and 2-3 players away from dominating!!!
Just another Groundhog season, a really poor finish again, we will all complain about it, then speculate all summer about new signings that will never happen and end up with nothing. Samir and Cesc will most likely go now adding to the speculation that we will have big funds to spend, once again they will dissapear into the club.
I cant see Arsene going but you have to wonder if anything will change unless he does?
DD
I have half a brain and I am well aware that the figures announced are tickets sold and not the actual attendance so that being the case why use the word attendance at all. The problem is that it has become symptomatic of the mistrust that is building between club and supporters and even more frustratingly it is something that could so easily be rectified.
The other thing that might not have crossed your mind is that many fans will not boo under any circumstances and so for some of us it is the politest way possible of showing our unhappiness.
Blindly supporting Arsenal is all very well, I do it myself………but I go to the games, I pay hard earned money for season tickets and I don’t like being treated like an idiot which is what is happening when someone uses the word attendance when they mean tickets sold, would you be happy if an accountant looked you in the eye and lied to you in the same way? I trust my accountant, I trust the club that I support and I don’t like being lied to.
Hi Rasp, The booing was the reason i took issue, not the crowd in general, other sports don’t get booed unless they infringe the rules, dirty play, cheating Etc in which case the crowd does give them stick. Since both those are endemic in football, it tends to happen less for those reasons. No it is booing a below par performance I find objectionable.
As far as that stupid mascot and the Players name singing is concerned I think you nailed it. Ridiculous beyond words
Thanks dandan, glad we agree 🙂
London.I agree they should not quote the figures at all, but reiterate ever has it been so am at a loss why it should engender mistrust any more now than ever it did before, when quite frankly it was a standing joke(no pun intended)
With respect London as far as I am concerned there is no way I will or can condone booing for the way the team plays. sorry if that upsets you but my remarks were not meant to be personal but was a general expression.
BR. How are you BTW? I agree that luck and bad reffing cost us but we shouldn’t be giving a team like villa a 2 goal lead at home under any circumstances.
Dandan
I am old enough to remember the attendance figures being announced over the PA at Highbury that you refer to and fondly remember the reaction they received.
I think we are now on the same page when it comes to the figures announced at the Emirates. As to the booing, I have never disagreed with you for a moment.
GM
Your 2:07 would be my match report.
micky,
how very dare you…kd lang, indeed!
http://bit.ly/kpHCem
Regarding the booing and the lap of thanks, I was heartened to hear the “We love you Arsenal we do” chants strike up when it seemed a slight possibility that the boos would greet the players when they started the lap.
AA was the first one sent out to start the lap and had the look of a naughty school boy who was being punished by being sent out to try out something risky first.
Deep down, although we felt let down by the players it shows the crowd, largely, could not bring itself to reject the players when they came to show their appreciation.
My old man sent a letter to Arsenal (1960’s, I think) that was printed in the programme asking for the attendance figures to be read out at the game.
My older bro still credits him with the club introducing the announcement.
So it’s all your Dad’s fault chas 😉
Chas,
I doff a hat, bow deeply and apologise most grovingly. JS was one of my main men. Met him many times and saw them live even more.
Chas, As did GoonerMichael.
Not sure the club would like to announce tickets sold and the number who actually came through the gates.
The difference would accurately identify how many couldn’t actually be arsed, which is negative publicity.
One thing which has irritated me recently is the ‘attendance’ figure announcement followed by, ‘Arsenal Football Club thanks you, once again, for you magnificent support’. After some of the recent efforts from the crowd at support, they’re either taking the piss or talking purely about finances.
Dandan, 🙂
Micky, your 12:31, ‘sheep mentality’ re booing.
The sheep around my way are obviously too upper class to boo. I have never heard ’em anyway!
In my own opinion there is nothing wrong with booze! 🙂
Micky and GM, deeply jealous that you met him.
I saw them at the Rainbow and the Music Machine (possibly my favourite gig of all time).
Haha London,
I suppose it was different in the days of those wonderful clicking turnstiles at Highbury.
Chas. I never really met him. Said hello in passing a couple of times maybe 2 sentances in a bar in New york in the 80s. Saw them live loads though. From the Vortex in Wardour street to Shea stadium in New york and all sizes in between. I was gutted when he passed away.
I was at the Rainbow too.
Chas/GM,
Open air in Victoria Park was the closest I got to the Rainbow. Both Finsbury Park ish.
RA,
Behave.
Oh no, just remembered. Can’t 🙂
Still, it could be a lot worse: Sampdoria, a team I’ve long had a soft spot for, have gone from playing Champions’ League qualifiers (and coming very close to playing in the group stages) to relegation in one season.
I was at that one too micky. My sister was friendly with patrick the punk poet. Remember him? He left the stage crying.
With our season now dead this sad event might put things into perspective.
A woman brought a very limp duck into a veterinary surgeon.
As she laid her beloved pet on the table, the vet pulled out his stethoscope and listened to the bird’s chest.
After a moment or two, the vet shook his head and sadly said, “I’m sorry, your duck, Quackers, has passed away.”
The distressed woman wailed, “Are you sure?”
“Yes, I am sure. Your duck is dead,” replied the vet.
“How can you be so sure?” she protested. “I mean you haven’t done any testing on him or anything. He might just be in a coma or something.”
The vet rolled his eyes, turned around and left the room. He returned a few minutes later with a black Labrador Retriever.
As the duck’s owner looked on in amazement, the dog stood on his hind legs, put his front paws on the examination table and sniffed the duck from top to bottom. He then looked up at the vet with sad eyes and shook his head.
The vet patted the dog on the head and took it out of the room. A few minutes later he returned with a cat. The cat jumped on the table and also delicately sniffed the bird from head to foot.
The cat sat back on its haunches, shook its head, meowed softly and strolled out of the room.
The vet looked at the woman and said, “I’m sorry, but as I said, this is most definitely, 100% certifiably, a dead duck.”
The vet turned to his computer terminal, hit a few keys and produced a bill, which he handed to the woman.
The duck’s owner, still in shock, took the bill. “£150!” she cried, “£150 just to tell me my duck is dead!”
The vet shrugged, “I’m sorry. If you had just taken my word for it, the bill would have only been £20, but with the Lab Report and the Cat Scan, it’s now £150.”
So, at least we did not have to pay for a lab report or cat scan to know the Gunners season is dead! 🙂
Chas,
I am really disappointed, I thought your Avatar was a photo of me in my shades. The disguise was obviously too good! 🙂
I remember back in the old days, when we paid cash at the turnstiles, that sometimes the announcement of the attendance was met with ridicule and knowing winks for completely the opposite reason: namely, the ground was packed to the gunnels (gunwales?) but the ‘official attendance’ was put at some 7 or 8 thousand below what we all knew it to be.
Everyone assumed it was a bit of a tax dodge (ie, the club would declare only a certain amount of turnstile income and pocket the rest tax free).
Rocky, that sounds like a Twitchy style type of tax dodge to me..allegedly.
Well done Wonderman, your post is very well balanced and written with a healthy portion of (self)mercy. It is not easy to write about something that you would rather forget very quickly.
As I said yesterday, I feel there is something not right between the players, as if they know something is going to happen and they are worried about it. It makes me think about the feeling we experience when we are about to leave the last year of primary or secondary school: everybody is going their separate ways, and things are no longer the same.
Let’s wait and see what will happen next. I would’ve loved a win yesterday, for more than one reason, but even if indeed we had won, it would not have made much difference to our shared point of view that the team needs to be changed. For me it needs to be tweaked, rather than rebuild, but that’s a debate for another time. At the moment, I feel best thing to do is to take some time and reflect. It is common knowledge that in order to embrace and start a process of change, you first need to accept that something is wrong. As said last week, all this adversity will help Wenger and the BoD to start taking that point of view.
Rocky! You and Dandan too!
Such foul calumny about a wonderful club, staunchly following in the historic footsteps of Sir Henry Norris! Oops. 😳
Rocky, how about the young ones ducking under the turnstile and you only paid a nominal amount which the operator kept for himself.
Apologies, RA.
How about this to make up for it?
http://twitpic.com/4yh72p
dandan
you mean you spotted me nipping under the turnstiles?
Wenger is a broke man. £6m a year to abuse water-bottles? I’d have thought we could’ve got someone to do that for free! A clear-out of Champ-Manager proportions is needed to eradicate this poisonous epidemic that is the core of our root problems, and I’m not sure I trust Wenger to do it competently. Walcott is Championship, not Premier Lge standard. Why does Capello pick him? God only knows, maybe he is swayed by the hype and clamour of the media that somehow he should play! He is as ordinary and predictable as the England team that went to the WC. Why does Wenger feel the need to be so defensive about next season before this sorry one is over, by saying it will be even harder to finish in the Top Four next season? He’s the highest paid manager in the country with the 3rd/4th highest wage bill in the PL, so what is it exactly that Arsenal are paying for? Tevez would have been perfect for Arsenal, and Darren Bent is like Ian Wright, not the best, but will guarantee 20-25 goals a season. I am rapidly going off football and this crap served up. The football isn’t pretty, or beautiful, it is pedestrian, boring and uninspired, and nothing remotely like the level of Barcelona. The corporate side is killing the humanity that is the organics of the club, and having a childish grren dinosaur as a mascot sums modern-day Arsenal up perfectly. When someone laughs at you, instinctively you want to prove them wrong. Mourinho regularly laughs at Wenger, and instead of passionately countering to prove him wrong, he passively accepts it and sets out to prove him right. Wenger has sliced our balls off and we’re all lauding him and celebrating it like it’s some huge achievement.
You’re not mincing your words there HCAA, very forthright.
Thank God for the boo boys.
Very well done lads.
Let the Board know they cant sit on their arse and continue to let Profit Mohammed indefinitely sell us the future.
High time these true gooners stood up and let their voices be heard.
Deep breath HCAA, 🙂
You make one or two very reasonable points in your 4:07 comment but then add some emotive statements that distract from these.
Mourhino is a despicable shit and odious in the extreme. AW is right not to descend to his level and exchange slanderous abuse. Rolling around with a pig is not to be recommended.
You are quite right that Arsenal’s beautiful Wengerball has been noticeable by its absence these last 3 months or so. losing is no fun but without breath-taking exhibitions of skill is even harder to take.
Wenger is a broken man and Walcott is only Championship standard? You might find an awful lot of people who will disagree with you, but at the moment there are stronger comments being made elsewhere and with just as little evidence provided to justify this assessment.
Finally, what exactly are you referring to regarding the poisonous epidemic at the root core of our problems? An epidemic is a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease, so what are we talking about here; foot and mouth, itchy bollox, or just incurable defenditus? 🙂
I await agog!
Chas, 🙂 Your 3:56 made up for it!
HCAA
We’re not all lauding him. I agree with most of what you say although I don’t really give a shit about the dinosaur. Selling Darren bent shows how stupid the spuds are. I’ve always rated him.
Hi Rocky, 🙂
There was a particular turnstile (+ operator) that was known to a favoured few, which always got stuck and required youngsters, such as myself, to be passed over the top.
Funny thing was, it only happened when no money was forthcoming from said young boy!! 🙂
RA,
It can’t be itchy bollocks, because Wenger’s removed any evidence that we ever had any! I couldn’t even stomach watching MotD 2, but a mate tells me Lee Dixon said we need about 7 or 8 new players? Things must be serious if Dixon is calling for revolution.
Actually HCAA reading your comment more carefully I disagree more than agree. I don’t see people lauding Wenger as much as you seem to think. I agree that something is wrong apart from the playing staff. Poisonous epidemic is a bit strong though. If that’s the case maybe it comes from the board. People are assuming that the board answer to Wenger.
Touché HCAA, 🙂
I cannot quite understand why so many people have taken against poor old DinoSoreArse.
He is a mascot meant to bring us luck.
So, does everyone hate him because he is responsible for our luck with the refs deserting us, or is it just because he is green? 🙂
Wenger is too smart to take Maureen’s bait.
It just puts me in mind of that crappy American thing ‘Barney’. We’re The Arsenal, guns, gunners, armoury, what is the link to a relic creature whose species had died out long before humans came along? I don’t get it, and I don’t find it inspiring.
GM
Bent has never been prolific has he!?
His finishing has been worse than Bendtner on a very bad day.
He does however have a good track record against us.
But so does Aliadiare.
He’s been top English scorer in the prem a few times
I’m not sure anyone, not even those like me who are generally pro Wenger, can be lauding him right now. The simple fact is we failed this year, and no-one, least of all Arsene Wenger, will think that is acceptable, not because we didn’t win the league, but because it has all ended in such a limp, embarrassing way. He’s the boss and he must be judged for what has gone wrong in the last two months (and his critics must also accept that his team got to the end of February in a very respectable and winning position, and should (but won’t) accept that 2005 to 2010 represented a real success).
I remain of the view that it’s in our interests for Wenger to remain, BUT the players’ rank failure in the last ten games has put him under enormous pressure: this summer, he needs to make big changes, in and out. Anything else and I’m pretty sure the majority of fans (as opposed to the significant minority right now) will reach a tipping point and turn against him, creating exactly the wrong environment for the start of the new season.
But if Wenger does make the type of changes even someone as level-headed as Lee Dixon apparently calls for, I still see plenty of reason for optimisim. We have some fantastically talented players, who have beaten some big teams this season (and top the hypothetical mini-league of the PL top four). Our opponents remain flawed and/or incomplete. And given the right summer, the fans and players will go into 2011-12 with a real hunger to prove ourselves, to avenge our failures.
Make or break time.
In order words.
It would suggest our defence is and can be attimes quite shite.
The converse is also true.
Ever wonder why every keeper has the game of the century against us!?
Well let me not go there.
Bents had a better scoring record than Rooney?
Hmm.
Interesting.
In other* words.
Wow.
Too smart London? Is that why, despite indesputible evidence that the 4-5-1 we employ doesn’t work very often, he persists with it to the point where it has become excrutiating to watch? Even at home against teams like Leeds, Ipswich, Leyton Orient and Huddersfield?
I am so looking forward to the first ten games of next season in order that I can be proved wrong. Much of that will be defined by activity in the transfer market where I have lost faith. Prove me wrong Arsene.
Then we kill the Green Thing!
Micky,
My problem with our transfers of late has been that they have been transparent, drawn out and predictable. The only surprise signings have been the 4th choicers = Silvestre, Squillaci. This pattern doesn’t fill me with optimism. We knew about Nasri, Vermaelen, Koscielny and Chamakh for months before they joined us. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that we have no-one on the radar at the moment.
micky,
We should devise a dastardly way of despatching said ‘Green Thing’… death by a thousand cuts; bamboo shoots under the toenails; be made to listen to Chris de Burgh endlessly singing The Lady in Red?
HCAA
Maureen’s bait!
Does that have anything to do with a 4.5.1 system. You are so desperate to find fault you miss the essence of what people are saying.
Chris de Burgh endlessly singing The Lady in Red?
Nobody deserves that!
If you look at the last 6 results 3 losses 2 draws and 1 win it is exactly the same as the last 6 (but 1) games lat season. Look at the graphic on the right. spooky (and depressing) We are end of season chokers.
26May,
If this were a one-off, maybe it would be forgivable. Did we not collapse the same way last season, and the season before that? When Wenger says judge him in May, does he mean May 2020?
Rasp,
I have lost all respect for you. You are a sick and twisted perv, as anyone who can come up with ” be made to listen to Chris de Burgh endlessly singing The Lady in Red?” is in need of my wife.
26
you think all those people booing at the Emirates including an (allegedy) March/protest are still a minority?
Even the pro-Wenger blogs have changed their tune.
Haha London, if I could wipe any song out of existence for the rest of history it would be TLiR together with it’s talentless, self-indulgent egotistical writer … nothing personal though 🙄
(28-2),
I agree with and applaud your comment, but there is a grievous ommision in your suggested solution.
Money!
I know I keep banging on about this, but we need to wake up and smell the coffee. Mr kroenke is not a genial philanthropist and certainly knows bugger all about football and cares less about Arsenal, other than as a business investment, which he hopes to turn a good profit.
Allegedly, AW has been given a ring fenced £30m ‘transfer treasure chest’, plus the proceeds of any sales he makes from unwanted players.
We have all heard this ‘ring fenced’ crap before. Given we have made more from proceeds of sales, over the past few years, than we have made investments in players, we should have some 5*£35m = £175m unspent ‘ring-fenced’ monies available.
Clearly bullshit.
Out of these ring-fenced monies we make payments when contracts are renewed with existing players.
Also not just the capital sum incurred, when acquiring the player, is deducted from the available funds but also his projected annual salary over the life of the contract.
Therefore a rough breakdown of what £30m will buy could be one player; say, Cost = £10m; salary 4 yrs @ £5m per annum = £20m; Total £30m.
Big money, but not when competing with Manu, Citeh, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea.
The other point is that having a major shakeup of players is anathema to AW. He has never, and will never agree to 7 or 8 players leaving the club, and a commensurate number joining.
It is an unrealistic expectation to expect otherwise, and will only end in tears.
The unpalatable truth is that we are trying to compete in an unequal world where prudence and financial stability has been thrown out of the window.
This is not just true about English clubs but also the Spanish, German and italian clubs.
The football world is a sorry pack of cards and will, in time, come tumbling down.
Then we will turn from paupers to kings! 🙂
GM
Agreed.
The only time we’ve finished a season strong was when we were chasing fourth place.
Whether it was against the spurs or Aston Villa.
London,
I’ll put it in more simplistic terms. Wenger has been around a lot longer than Mourinho. With that in mind, compare where they are and what each has won.
Red Arse says:
May 16, 2011 at 5:44 pm
(28-2),
Therefore a rough breakdown of what £30m will buy could be one player; say, Cost = £10m; salary 4 yrs @ £5m per annum = £20m; Total £30m.
—————-
Very well thought out. However the converse is also true.
You sell a player you keep his money in wages, a player like Cesc for instance who makes double that and would attract a significant fee as is with gettin ride of the dead wood would save the club significant money.
The AST have done their homework. We have 40m to spare.
Another 45 – 50m for Cesc.
And there are no excuses.
HCAA,
Nice try but over-simplistic in the extreme.
Mourhino has had most of his successes at clubs who spend big potatoes. Chelsea, while Abramovich was throwing huge sums of money at it, Inter, ditto, and now Madrid.
if Wenger had been given the same spending power and an instruction to get on with it, he would have achieved the same success and more.
micky,
OK, I’ll take your wife, when can you deliver her?
This isn’t an argument based on Wenger v Mourinho, London. You refered to Wenger as being ‘smart’. Being ‘smart’ infers intelligence. Part of that intelligence is deciding which tactics will best beat your opponents. They didn’t work against Sunderland, Blackburn, Stoke, Aston Villa, and far too many to mention. It definitely didn’t work in CL or FA Cups. If you’re intelligent would you continue with a tactic that continually exposes all your team’s flaws? I don’t need to look for faults when Wenger and his able assistants are serving them up with such prolific regularity.
completely agree red arse
GhostFace,
I was trying to bring some perspective to this whole transfer fund issue.
I know none of the ‘true’ figures or how Arsenal amortise them. So this is just a ‘finger in the air’ demonstration to show what a £30m transfer fund might mean.
Your Cesc ‘sale’ comment is speculative and the £45m you suggest is conjecture too.
That being said, a joint £75 million might buy 2 (higher salaried) players (maybe).
Not too convincing is it? 🙂
Neither I nor the AST knows, frankly, but I think Gooners may well be disappointed if they hope for unrealistic signings in the Summer.
Well Red Arse
Youd agree with me that a major overhaul is highly unlikely and what we’ve been asking Arsene for is that 2 or 3 high profile signing.
Arshavin is one of them so 2 more is what would be needed imo.
The AST are privy to financial figures as shareholders that you and I are not so their valuation is not as you put it “conjectured” but carefully calculated facts.
Also it makes me laugh everytime when people play down the talents of Mourinho and atribute his success to the club bank account.
As if he had a War chest when he won the treble with Porto
Rasp,
On a Full Moon. You will seriously regret this, as she is coming in a professional capacity (and not what you think, sicko). 🙂
Mourinho is a better manager than Wenger. He didn’t spend a fortune at Porto in winning the UEFA Cup in 2003 and CL in 2004. He swapped Ibrahimovic for Eto’o, and banked £40m on the deal as well, during his spell at Inter, and won CL. Wenger bought Anelka for £500k and sold him to Real Madrid for £23m, but no class-player came from Madrid to us, which is the only comparison we have. Wenger’s CL success since 1997? Zero.
We will not be able to afford the top players that so many are demanding. We cannot spend £25/30m on a single player.
We will have to buy, as AW has always done, sensibly. Not all purchase work, see Bebe at Manure, but I think that AW has been more successful than most.
AW has always said that Walcott was not a winger. Perhaps next season will be the one that sees his transformation to what W sees he really is.
I agree that RWP as a single striker does not work, as does not the 4 3 3 we have employed this season.
I did not see the first half yesterday, but thought we were not bad in the 2nd half.
Chamakh’s confiednece is rock bottom, hence his unwillingness to shoot, but his goal should have stood and we can see how dangerous he is as a central striker.
Whenever we have seen RVP drop deeper, he has been very good, so it should not be a straight swap, RVP for Chamakh. If we cannot find a better centrla striker than Chamakh, then lets play both.
I also agree that we could do with an orthodox winger, and also that SWP is not the one.
Ashley Young will be too expensive.
The last couple of months represent a slow decline, fueled by lack of confidence. The inventiveness and dribbling of CF and SN resepctively have been missed badly.
WE managed without them against Manure, because, simply, against a good team, they are pretty useless, which si why they have lost to the better teams without a wimper.
They have struggled against the rest, but have succeeded only because of their home record.
AW has a lot of work to do. Let us hope that he will be able to use the summer to solve some of the problems, if not all of them.
If AW left, we would be mid-table or worse in no time.
GhostFace,
I am not really agreeing or arguing with you.
laughing at someone genuinely trying to debate an issue is disrespectful and provocative. So stop it.
To avoid misunderstanding, I am a doubly qualified accountant, and I only know what is shown on the AFC website, which shows the disclosure of the Holding Company’s Accounts and Balance Sheet.
What other information would a ‘shareholder’ have that could enable them to ‘calculate’ something that a gormless person, such as me, would not have?
Here’s a clue …… it is a rhetorical question!
@HCAA 5.42pm: Fair point, there have been previous collapses, but I was willing to allow for them a bit because (a) we were working without any money, (b) the players were young enough to make an allowance and (c) nothing that has come before has been as bad as this year, both in terms of the quality of the opportunity the players themselves (and their manager) had created and the utterly lame failure to take that opportunity.
@Ghost 5.43pm: None of us can presume to know why different fans boo’d yesterday. Some were booing the Board for increasing prices by 6%, some Wenger, some the players on the pitch for their wretched performance on the day, some the players for what they’ve done in the past two months. My view (just my view of course) is that the majority of fans are not anti-Wenger, yet. But I certainly accept that many, many Arsenal fans are deeply unhappy about the way this season has gone, as well as separate issues around commercialisation, pricing etc. As I’ve said, despite being pro Wenger, I can see that the minority may well soon become the majority.
@Red Arse 5.44pm: That ring-fenced transfer account is real, it was written into the funding arrangements when we took on the stadium debt. It’s fully documented.
And if we were to cull the squad, there is plenty of money to be brought in to fund significant purchase, which alongside promoting from within, could renew in the way we need.
I compeltely agree with you, Wenger hasn’t gone through a process of radical change in playing staff, which worries me, but that doesn’t take away from the need to do precisely that.
Your points about the Alice-In-Wonderland nature of football finances are well made, and certainly speak in favour of our longer term good fortunes. The danger is in the next year or two, and the pressures that will be created if there isn’t quick success or voluntary change in the playing personnel.
I’m nodding at almost everything in jjgsol’s post.
HCAA
By the same token swapping ibra for etoo and pocketing £40m makes Guardiola a bit of an idiot. Which is why I think he’s unproven. Going back to the conversation we never finished. I’d go for Paul Lambert (have I got the name right?) from your list.
Red Arse
Sensitive guy arent you.
Well let me ask you a rhetorical question of my own.
What sort of accountant doesnt know that a company doesnt share its “true figures” to the general public but discloses them to the shareholders because maybe, just maybe they OWN the company!?
GM,
We don’t know that it was Guardiola’s decision, but assuming it was, it hasn’t hurt them too much has it! They’ve won La Liga (again), and they’re in CL Final (again). Paul Lambert, yes. CL winner as a player, and has taken Norwich from League One to PL in successive seasons. If he’s not ready for a top job now, when will he be! Scottish managers love English football, and they’re still winning our League. I’d install Lambert tomorrow if it was up to me.
Ghost
With the greatest of respect, piss off and learn some manners.
And while you’re at it, look up what plc reporting requirements are.
It hit them in the pocket HCAA. Guardiola has bought Villa (anyone could have done that) apart from that I’m not sure he’s bought anyone else that has worked out. Mascherano maybe. (I don’t know when he signed) You could win trophies managing that team.
BTW the five scottish managers in the prem all come from the same area of Glasgow apparently
GhostFace,
Steady on my friend.
You are trying to confuse a simple person like me with your cunning ‘rhetorical’ question, aren’t you?
That is not a rhetorical question, is it? That is a work of art. You must have studied for years at the School of Cretins to come up with that.
Hmm, let me think. A shareholder owning a share in the company? No, that beats me. And secret info given to shareholders, in breach of the Companies Act? Crikey, I never knew tht either, and to learn all this from someone with a marble rattling around in his head.
You are brilliant … childish, but brilliant.
I must enrol immediately in the School of Cretins and see if I can win the ‘Dunderhead Schmackle’ of the Year, just like you.
Damn, that’s not going to be possible is it Schmackle? Sorry, GhostFace!
And I bet you tell your doctor you are normal too, don’t you. what do doctors know, eh Schmackle? 🙂
26may1989 🙂
RA,
That’ll learn him 🙂
Oke. Serious question. Can anyone tell me a website for this season stats. I have a postage idea that only works if my think can be substantiated.
The premier league have a stats page
Very interesting.
UK laws are very different.
I’m off home. see you all later
Thanks, 26, 🙂
I don’t normally take advantage of people like that, but it’s been a grotty day, and it gave me a bit of fun. Anyway, take care, he doesn’t think much of lawyers like you either!! 🙂
Ghost face; ‘UK Laws are very different.’ — To? — Ah, Mars! Of course.
Now I feel guilty. 🙂
Micky,
GIE gave a website for stats recently (last couple of days), so if you troll back thru’ the archives you will find it. 🙂
Look forward to your Post my friend. By the way, what have you done to the lovely Evonne?
26 any chance of a legal opinion on the Phrase piss off. 🙂
To my shame DD, I can’t. I’ll have one of the underlings research it overnight….. 😉
A letter from Arsene
Dear Arsenal Supporter,
Sunday was very disappointing because we made a very bad start and Aston Villa punished us.
We went into the game too tentatively, we were not dominant enough in anything we did and we were on the back foot at the start. After that we battled to get back into the game but we were a bit unlucky.
I feel we should have had a penalty, we had a goal ruled out for something that often goes unpunished and overall we are very frustrated. We dropped three points which could cost us automatic qualification for the Champions League.
Why were we so tentative? We have been hit very hard by bad results and you could see that we suffered a little bit at the start of the game. But we have to rise above that. By the time we looked comfortable it was too late.
Thomas Vermaelen and Sebastien Squillaci played together for the first time but they are two players with experience so normally it should work. Vermaelen grew stronger as the game went on but it is a lot to ask to be dominant when he has not played since September.
I believe we gave very cheap goals away and at half time I took off Squillaci because we had to take a gamble, we had to score two goals. Because Villa closed us down we were forced to play out from the back and we needed somebody – a midfielder – at the back.
Some people have questioned whether we were right to do a ‘lap of appreciation’ after the game but it is our job to thank the fans and you should never feel embarrassed for doing your job.
It was not a tour of glory, of course. But I think, no matter what happens, you have to respect your fans for turning up for the whole season. It was not an ego trip, it was a chance to show our respect for the fans.
I know many fans left the stadium before the ‘lap of appreciation’ but you have to thank those who are still in the stand. What is important is that this Club has values and respects those values.
I feel fortunate that for 15 years we have played with full stands so when people are not happy they can show it. We are in a job where you have to please people and if they are not happy, we have to accept that.
Finally, we now know that Cesc Fabregas will not play against Fulham next weekend after suffering a setback with his thigh injury. Samir Nasri has a very small chance of returning next Sunday and Johan Djourou is also a big doubt.
Thanks for your support.
RA,
At no point has Evonne ever suggested that I am on the menu. She has met me, and therein lies the problem I fancy.
Thanks GM.
Just a small interesting statistic.
Evryone’s favourite whipping boy, Denilson, started 17 games thorughout the season, and was a sub 13 times. He was on the winning side 21 times, in a draw 4 times and defeat 5 times. On 10 occasions when he started we won, and 4 occasions we lost.
He has not played since the WBA game, although has been an unused sub a few times.
Not bad statistics or is it my imagination.
HCAA
Smart ENOUGH NOT TO TAKE MAUREEN’S BAIT.
You have to read all the words to make sense of what someone is saying. Is English your second language?
Red Arse
I will concede i do not know much about the “Companies Act”
Which is solely a British ideology.
That obviously doesnt work around the world.
And no.
The rest of the world isnt mars.
I dont think much of lawyers. And i think even less of accountants.
But i think for one who took so much offense to being “laughed at” to be making so much fun is a touch quite hypocritical.
Not like i give a shit 😀
jjgsol says:
May 16, 2011 at 6:17 pm
If AW left, we would be mid-table or worse in no time.
——————————
Its precisely this sort of thinking that wreaks of Idol Worship.
One day AW will leave Arsenal FC.
And that day will we be a midtable team?
If so then lets ship the c8nt out now sooner rather than later.
Well said DanDan, great letter. I don’t think there is anybody more capable of sticking to his guns on AA than you are. You keep us all in check. Great stuff.
London,
Mourinho doesn’t have to play mind-games with Wenger, it’s not like they’re competing in the same country. Mourinho wins big cups, Wenger doesn’t. Mourinho has TWO CL, Wenger has none. When asked his opinion on who might win CL this season, Arsenal weren’t in his last eight. Had I been Arsenal manager, I would have taken Mourinho’s omission not as an insult, but as a direct challenge to silence all the doubters and prove them wrong. This isn’t a case of play-ground name-calling, Mourinho derides Wenger’s tactical approach. You could argue that Wenger has nothing to prove to Mourinho, but Mourinho’s words will hang like a spectre over Wenger until he proves his mettle and his tactics win CL. If he doesn’t, he will go down as a failure.
Wenger is stubborn and proud to the detriment of Arsenal FC, he will not recognise the failings of himself or his lesser players and he wants to be known as a manager who finds and nurtures talent rather than a manager who is successful and wins things. Every close-season I check the papers, sky, web, anything for news of signings and every time I am left with that same feeling where everyone else seems to have strengthened and we are told that the squad is good-enough and the right players were not available. What he has done however is keep us at the top end of the table during a tough 4 or 5 seasons and has the club in a strong place financially. It is true I think that If he had demanded funds they would have been made available for players but he has preferred to play it safe and save the money. This is the last season that he gets my support, imo he must act in the summer and show he has the desire to give fans what we want. A good team playing good football and winning things !
HCAA
The beauty of blogs is that the evidence is right there at your finger tips
You wrote: “Mourinho regularly laughs at Wenger, and instead of passionately countering to prove him wrong, he passively accepts it and sets out to prove him right.”
I wrote: Wenger is too smart to take Maureen’s bait.
Do you get it now?
London,
I must be missing the point you’re making. You infer that Wenger is of superior intelligence, and on one level, you’re probably right. But ally his intelligence to football tactics, and picking the right players to execute those tactics, I would not agree that Wenger is of superior intelligence.
Okay okay okay okay, Wenger is shit, they system is shit, the players are shit…….
Reading through the comments today just made me reach for a huge glass of perspective……
Our season from August to 23rd February consisted of 28 wins, 7 draws, and 8 losses from 43 games, we were 2nd in the league, in the final of the CC, 2-1 up from the first leg against Barca, and heading towards a quarter final clash with Man Utd in the FA Cup. We had scored 97 goals in the process and conceded 41.
Since then we have experienced totally dire form, but didn’t the 4-5-1/4-3-3 so abhorred give us the results listed above, did we suddenly start playing the formation in February? Did the players so poor not achieve those wins and those results. Actually some didn’t whisper it but in quite a few of those wins the likes of Chamakh, Theo and Arshavin featured prominently. How short term has our memory gotten?
In February most of us could see that progress had been made from last year a little more professionalism to stop the silliness of Newcastle away or Spurs at home and a bit of a luck and a fair wind from referees could see us on our way to glory.
Unfortunately it was not to be as we all know, but most of us believed in February that this season would end in at least one piece of silverware, instead it has petered out to miserable conclusion, but the fact is there wasn’t a lot wrong in February, what has made us so sure there’s so much wrong now?
If only Arsene had a yellowy substance that he could inject into the players to give them their belief back and their enjoyment back.
But to say he has lost it, or that he is not intelligent or indeed that our team is as broken as some would make you believe is over the top.
A summers break, come back with a few fresh faces, fresh legs, build the players confidence and go at it once again.
Yes the club could do more to engender noise in the ground, yes Wonder of You is a bit pants, but the name shouting, we could use this to great effect, IF people weren’t embarrassed to do it, why should you be embarrassed to sing a players name at a football ground? Thats half the point of going isn’t it, unabashed support for your team. Why should you feel the need to be quiet if no one around you is singing, how about sing and sing and sing and shame the people around you into singing, it only takes three or four people nearby to join in and it suddenly spreads, although it does help to have a fog horn for a voice 🙂
Rant over……
HCAA you’re right, Wenger never picked Pires, Ljungberg, Campbell, Gilberto, Henry, Anelka, Flamini, Adams, Keown, Bould, Dixon, Winterburn, Cole, or Bergkamp in their right position ever. Why did I never see it before…..
ok rant still going a little bit……i’m outta here for an espresso to calm down.
GIE – espresso so late? Bad idea, you will have another sleepless night 🙂 Well, I asume that many of you didn’t sleep that well last night. I didn’t.
Excellent rant Exile. I don’t agree with all of it, but it’s excellent.
I’m off to a support group after discovering that Ghost doesn’t like lawyers.
HCAA
I don’t particularly think Wenger is a better manager that maureen but we got knocked out by barca. When soon to be sacked maureens team met barca they went out to. I think we ran them closer.
no one likes lawyers 🙂
Actually
26
One can understand why you had so much problem calculating averages the other day.
And as such being a leach im sorry lawyer, youve gone true to form and put your nose in someone elses business/conversation.
Hope they have a cure for what youve got.
Is there really much point comparing Mourinho and Wenger?
Mourinho is the better tactician and is simply the best in the game at getting out the maximum performance from players. His vision of football is ultimately pragmatic and he will be forgotten fairly quickly as a result. He could not have achieved what Wenger achieved from 2005 to 2010, and would never have even considered doing so.
Wenger is the better builder of players and teams. He is a footballing romantic and visionary (hence the stubbornness), and as such his achievements, even if fewer than JM in terms of trophies, will be held in higher regard in the long run. History will judge him well for all that came before this season.
Plus I hate Mourinho.
Actually Ghost, I didn’t want to embarrass you the other day, but you only put up ten names and ages under your Dortmund starting XI list. So it wasn’t really that struggles with the maths is it? No problem on my averages either, I actually took the time to look up the whole Dortmund squad, you couldn’t be arsed doing that.
And you might also have noted that I accepted several of your points. You aren’t really up to serious discussion are you?
Go away now little boy.
GM: Quite agree, not even my mum likes lawyers! 🙂
Embarrass me!?
You and Bumble bee are quite hilarious.
I put everyone’s average age up there bar the keepers
which if you add his age is still significantly lower than 25.
I cant be Arsed looking up the whole squad because its idiotic.
Should I call Wenger an idiot for saying he fielded the youngest team in the prem with Lehman on the bench!?
Lawyers I tell you.
You’re right Ghost, it is idiotic to have checked your facts and been accurate.
Have a really great night, wherever you are.
@ 10.38 Well said vingt-six,
You should also add that Mourinho always chooses clubs which:
1. Are already established teams in their league
2. Allow him to spend a lot of money
3. Are happy with the defensive nature of his football and don’t mind sacrificing style over results (in Madrid’s case this was done out of desperation to break the Barca mould)
Comparing Arsene’s achievements at Arsenal with Mourinho’s at Chelsea, Inter and Madrid is comparing apples with pears. Makes no sense at all.
Cheers Total. The only thing I’d say in disagreement is that Mourinho’s time at Porto is an exception to your very fair generalisations. His achievements there were truly impressive, and were done without serious money behind him. To me, they were the highlight of his career.
I was right all along we will finish fourth. Next season we will not finish in the top four .arsene is preparing us for it already.they really don’t care about the surportes . There won’t be a lot of signings and only the best players will leave.wait for the excuses before the start of the season.don’t spend your money on the emirates cup. They must sit on the board laughing at the mugs who after 7years will still pull up the money to watch that crap in the biggest recession the world has ever known.even after yesterdays sicking and embbassing lap of shame the board will take no notice and boys will go and play there play stations because they Really do not give a f..k.
Have just read your observations about sharing figures. You my friend are an idiot.
The finical results are on the website read and try and understand them……then realise that they are the same accounts to the board, the shareholders and the general public. As a plc any member of the public could choose to buy a share whenever we like.
The books and accounts are audited by an Independent firm of auditors and must follow strict accountancy guidelines if the board of directors choose not to follow the accountancy rules they have to disclose it.
Now even if your company is not a plc and is owned 100% by one shareholder if its turnover is sufficiently high enough the company still has to file full accounts to Companies House which are available to anyone for a small fee, and still require an audit.
These have to be the true figures so in short as 26 said earlier go learn some facts before you start talking so much garbage.
GiE,
Why do you refer to by-gone players? Where would you play Bergkamp in our modern system? 4-4-2 is far less complicated, 2 banks of 4, with 2 strikers up top. Nor did I infer that he played any of his defenders out of position (although he did do that with van Bronkhorst after paying good money for him!). I’ve said it before, to execute Wenger’s philosophy, it needs a player of Cruyff or Messi’s calibre, and Fabregas is not of that quality. You say the system worked up until the CC Final. It did and it didn’t. Great wins over Blackpool, Bolton, Braga and Shakhtar were over-shadowed by home defeats against WBA, Newcastle and Tottenham, insipid performances away at Chelsea and Man Utd, and a failure to win an easy CL group. And even though we beat an off-colour Chelsea convincingly, and thrashed Man City at Eastlands (who went down down to 10-men after only 6 mins), there were horrible performances in the FA Cup against Leeds, Huddersfield and Leyton Orient, as well as the CC against Ipswich. It’s been a bitty season littered with empty uninspired performances, and our collapse at the end of this season mirrors the collapse of last season and the season before that…
Yes you were right Mickeyk when can we next expect you at the Emirates?
Mickydidit Guardian Chalkboards for comparison stats is useful.
Also there is a link on Arsenal website to a stats sire about Arsenal performances, quite good as you can combine defenders to see results with a combination of four defenders, or 4/5 midfielders.
I started compiling some info earlier this year into Excel but then I had to figure out Pivot Tables and such like to give it substance, decided to wait til end of season.
Unfortunately you also have to reduce out the variables like Bendtner starting in right midfield but being labelled a forward on the site, and then put him back as a forward to allow for the games he did start in his true position, in short it’s an arse.
Have to say, I agree with pretty much everything in HCAA’s 11.08, except on one small point: it was no accident that City got a man sent off only a few minutes into the game, it was the direct result of Cesc’s talent in carving open their defence and forcing the foul.
I thought the best argument for reverting to a 4411/442 was the comparison of the first and second halves yesterday – we carried far greater threat once we had two forwards on the pitch.
All of that said, I still think Exile made some good points earlier, just because the run-in was screwed up, we shouldn’t forget the positives of what came before. But even if he had carried the fight to United till the end, as we should have done, there still would have been flaws in the personnel, the formation and the tactics. They’ve just come to the fore in style now.
Agree vingt-six, Mourinho is a fantastic manager. He had his breakthrough at Porto and to win the CL with a team from Portugal is a great achievement. After that, both managers have been operating under very different circumstances, and both have their faults as well as strengths. I also admit, my views are coloured by my intense dislike of both the persona and the style of football he choses.
GiE, did I read correctly last night, that you are based in Norwich?
HCAA Hi,
4-2-3-1 works well in away games and against the bigger teams at home, as there is more space available for us and this system give us also better defensive cover.
However, against the non-top teams at home, I am with you that we should play more often 4-4-2: with Fab and Song in the middle of midfield and RvP in the hole. Either Bendtner or Chamakh upfront would be worth a try.
the mancs were robbed by porto. Much as I hate them scholes had a goul disallowed that was perfectly ok. At the time I found it funny (still do)If it had been us I’d have gone mental.
I think its going to be the first and last time i quote London.
As he rightly stated The beauty about a blog is that you can go back and read what the other person has written
“And I don’t think they’re quite as young as you say, there are several in their late 20s and I think a few in their 30s”
Which is absolutely correct but fuck.
I didnt think you were going to go into their reserve team to prove that point.
Alternatively, Total, how about a midfield two of Ramsey and Wilshere (assuming Cesc does move on this summer), with Walcott up front and van Persie in the hole?
It’s a squad Ghost. Not much point talking about starting elevens is there?
I’d have chamakh in front of RVP and get some wide players who can cross
GIE
Youre right.
Becuase I dont understand how your country works when it comes to public or private companies disclosing their financial reports.
Im an idiot. Fair play.
Ive heard British folk can be racist but before you creamed yourself with that “hurrah” of a post did you consider for a second I might have been looking at it from a different continents perspective!?
and as such things like “Companies Act” do not exist and infact are a direct Violation to our Property and Privacy laws.
Yes 26
You are right.
But i bet you when Arsene is talking about his youngest team beating United.
I can bet you he wasnt thinking about Lehman in the reserves.
Still you made your point fair enough.
Im still of the opinion that it can be done by the right manager though.
Ghost face. Where are you?
26, Ramsey and Wilshere are the (near) future, no doubt about it. What a prospect. Just feel that it would be too much to ask them to play there for a whole season, and in 4-4-2 we would miss the phisical strength that the fantastic Song brings. Just think 3 years ahead: Song – Rambo – Wilshere, it just cannot get much better than that. If Cesc is to go, and it clearly feels like it, I would like us to get an experienced beast of a DM like Van Bommel. Just for two years to guide our talents.
Theo, upfront is also exciting, I would prefer Chamakh though who had a better first season than Dzeko, Torres (at Chelsea) and Ballotelli. If he is given full confidence, he would deliver imho.
Ghost
I’ve no idea where you are from, and generally you’re right, we shouldn’t make assumptions about where bloggers are from. Trouble is you made a specific point about information given to shareholders in Arsenal FC plc, which is a company incorporated in England, which you followed up by casting doubt on a certified expert on the precise issues you raised. So why wouldn’t responses to your post refer to the specific requirements that apply to English companies? You brought that on yourself I’m afraid.
And be careful when chucking words like “racist” around – just as no-one here knows you, so you don’t know anything about anyone else here, and implying anyone has been racist in that context is a dangerous game to play.
Total
You raise a very interesting point: I admit, I have doubts about both Song the player and the future of a DM position if we were to go back to a single bank of four midfielders.
Song is good, no doubt about that, and sometimes he’s very good. But I don’t see a top, top quality player when I look at him. He’s no Makalele or Essien.
But more than that, I like the idea of going back to having a midfield of four with a pure pair of central midifielders, for which R&W look perfectly matched. That pairing really is our future, around which the whole team may well be structured. And if we were to revert to a four-man midfield (who knows if Wenger would seriously consider it?), something would have to give in terms of Song, Wilshere and Ramsey. I’d prefer to go with the youngsters, though they would have to find a Petit-Vieira style way of working together to provide a decent level of defensive protection.
But you’re right, it is probably too early to think that R&W will be an established first team pairing. Whatever happens this summer, it’s more likely that Song will remain a starter, with one or both of R&W joining him in midfield.
Hi TA,
within the confines of the English PL, I would play
4-4-2 every game, or with having Bergkamp/van Persie, 4-4-1-1, with 2 attacking wingers, as we had with Pires and Ljungberg. Rafa Benitez played 4-2-3-1 at Liverpool.
26, like the idea of putting Walcott up front with van Persie operating just behind. A central midfield partnership of Ramsey and Wilshere, two quality wingers, a solid defence and a world-class GK, things would look very rosy.
Evening all.
This has been a cracking debate in the last hour so, but I do get bored by all the bickering. I wish everyone would (a) not give offence so easily and (b) not take offence so easily. And if anyone disagrees I’ll punch them.
26may
I agree with your idea in your 12.03 that Jack and Aaron could form an amazing partnership in the middle of a 4-4-2 midfield.
Next season I would like to see this team:
(New Goalie) (I know, I know, lone voice etc – but Chez is not ready yet)
Sagna – Vermaelen – (New big experienced CB with EPL experience) – Baines
Nasri – Wilshere – Ramsey – (Pacey winger who can cross)
RVP
(Bent/Benzema/Chamakh)
This assumes Fab is going.
TA yes for my sins I now live in Norwich.
GhostFace ….. Racist….you couldn’t be further from the truth. If you come on and state something that is blatantly false it will be corrected here my friend that is all.
To follow up with criticisms of lawyers and leaches and far accountants with the same brush is pretty disrespectful of another mans profession in my book, all very fun when it’s in jest and you know someone well enough but to be so carte blanche in your stereotype is hmmm a form of prejudice no?
Very interested to know what continent has such Property and Privacy laws that prevents plc’s from the need to disclose financial information to the general public.
I’m very disappointed with this blog owner as I considered this blog is a very good blog that always had a healthy debate and most of the time hold an optimistic view of Arsene, the players and particularly Arsenal football club. But I still could’nt understand how you can let Ghostface still comment on this site after he said Arsene is a c8nt and I didn’t think his argument improved after that. Although maybe I’m not aware that we can go around and insult people in this blog?!!
JohnQ
The ‘blog owner’ is not some Overlord sitting in Blog Control Central. The blog is run by a very small group of people, all of whom have real, full lives to lead.
Ghostie’s comment came at 7.01pm. It’s quite possible that the small band who run this site have all been engaged on family/work duties for the evening, or if they weren’t that maybe they didn’t have time to read every comment and therefor missed that one.
I happen to agree it was a crass and inappropriate comment – but direct your ire where it belongs (at Ghostface), not at the people who give up many hours of their free time to keep this forum going so that the likes of you and me have somewhere to voice our views.
JohnQ. It was as RL says, no-one was around to moderate GF’s comment.
Great debate yesterday (apart from the name calling)
I think Mourinho is a terrific manager who got lost in his own hype. The “Special One” theme was amusing at first but has become progressively tiresome, that said, surely no-one can doubt his abilities? What about a 9 year unbeaten home record?
Speculation about the size of the transfer chest is just that. I am fairly certain that clubs do not pay the full transfer fee of a player in one lump sum (unless that club is MC/Chavs. One often hears that a club owes another many millions on the remainder of a transfer fee.
Seconded Rocky…as TA said the other day trying to get a post every day from an unorganisable rabble is work enough in itself without the added chore of admin and moderation when debating gets out of hand.
That is true Raddy re transfer spends, it does all depend how the deal is structured.
Wasn’t that one of the reasons we were robust with Barca over Cesc last summer as they owed us money for Henry and Hleb still?
GIE. Precisely.
As to wholesale clear-outs; there are two hopes – Bob and No.
I expect us to sign at most 2/3 players, one of whom will b a back-up DM and not the “marquee” (?) signing everyone wants.
Why? Because 10 poor games will not cause AW to give up on Project Youth.
Morning all.
GIE I believe we are still owed 12 or 14 million on the deals you mention.
As I said yesterday I agree with Raddy about 2 or 3 quality players coming in the maximum.
Surely Almunia and vela and Squillaci will go, but Wenger doesn’t always sell a player after one season.
WE now have when on form a number of quality players in Fab,Nasri,Vermaeen,Sagna and RVP.Then we have the raw rexruits that we hope will blossom in Wilshere and Ramsey and Chamakh and kos (who is improving dramatically)
Bendtner,Arshavin and Walcott need to be discussed do they strengthen the team when they play
Is Gibbs another on a learning curve or even good enough.
So in a nut shell we have quality, good raw recruits and some squad players of which some are better than others.
A lot of thinking for wenger this summer.
Clichy has gone backwards,Diaby is injury prone and one could argue either way as to who is better in goal, Chesney or Fab, but yet again both are not the genuine article as yet.
Morning BR – only 10 poor games this season? I think there were more. Wenger might not be willing to give up on his Youth Project, but the pressure is mounting. There is SK to be answered to now and I am sure that a shrewed businessman is not going to ignore empty seats, booing and black scarves.
All – did that Ghost reply as to his continent/country of origin? Judging by his comments the geezer is from another planet altogether
Morning Raddy
Personally, I want Wenger to stick with project youth, which is why I want to see a clear out of the obvious older candidates (Almunia, Arshavin, Rosicky, Squillaci etc) and the promotion of several of the youngsters, allied to some serious signings (CB, midfielder and striker). If we lose any of Cesc, Nasri and Clichy we may need replacements. So a clear out and the level of market activity you (probably rightly) predict aren’t mutually exclusive.
At least as significant is consideration of the default formation and how quickly Wenger makes his move in the market.
So an interesting time ahead, and there’s plenty of good stuff to build on.
26may – Wenger is not going to make any fast moves in the market, you know that. Fergie is already chasing a couple of goalkeepers and is being linked with the top Ajax keeper, when le Boss is still faithful to Fabianski, Szczesny and Almunia, none of them ready for the top PL spot
Well that was an interesting debate you guys had last night.
I am fairly certain Ghost Face lives in New Jersey, he only appears when we are in the dumps, so if we win our last game I expect him to disappear until well into the next season.
Morning all,
Apologies, I didn’t realise that the debate had become so heated last night and that the language had fallen below the acceptable limit. We will not tolerate anyone using insulting language in relation to the manager, players or fellow bloggers.
hear hear hear 🙂 welcome back Rasp 🙂
Rasp – I think 26may and GiE managed the situation very well, with tact and fact they beat the opossition into submission
GiE – your question to MickyK about his next visit to the Emirates shut him up nicely, well done !
The thing I found the most interesting was BR and Kelsey’s veiw that we should not expect wholesale changes, just 2/3 quality players (I paraphrase).
I think you underestimate what 2/3 players of quality would mean. A CB of a superior quality to Djourou and Koscielny would be revolution in defence.
A DM of a higher standard than Song would create a midfield revolution.
And an out and out goal scoring CF would create not only a revolution in attack it would force a change to the whole system.
It doesn’t stop there: a new striker would force Walcott onto the bench for the best part of the season; he would almost certainly want to leave the same is true of Song, Djourou and Koscielny.
Now that is my idea of wholesale changes.
Hi london, 🙂
Very sensible summation and I would be happy with what you suggest.
Wholesale for some is 7 or 8 players out and presumably (?) 4 or 5 coming in. I don’t think so!
Morning Evonne,
I hadn’t gone away, just ridiculously busy I’m afraid.
I agree with the first four paragraphs of London’s post; the fifth, not so much! 🙂
Re Szczesny, opinion continues to be divided, but I really think he’s there now and should retain the shirt. The boy’s got it, believe!
Plus a new keeper would be unnecessary and destabilising.
Morning Evonne, 🙂
Nice to see you chirping up and supporting GIE and 26. 🙂
I don’t like accountants and lawyers that much either!! 🙂
Red Arse – I don’t mind accountants, they are usually boring, but not the AA lot, gosh, no! I dislike lawyers, but 26may is a great guy!
Rasp – I know, just pulling your leg
26 – I have done some checking on Szczesny’s father when I was in Poland. Apparently like father like son – big potential, big mouth, very average career.
Harry – I keep meaning to congratulate your boy, Reese, and forgetting to do it, so now that I remembered – Congrats!!! xx
Most transfer speculation assumes that any changes are driven by the club whereas the players themselves have a major say in the process. If Nasri, Bendtner and one or two others decide they want to leave, we will have no choice but to recruit.
Evonne, very interesting re Szczesny Snr. But don’t judge the son by the father – especially my poor little lad, I wouldn’t want anyone to tar him with the same brush as me!
26 – you are too modest! Ask Red Arse, he’d tell you how great you are!
Small talk before New Post arrives – I was watching the Eastenders last night, no apologies, I like the programme. Alfie, the village idiot and West Ham supporter said to his son on the Christening day – You can be anything you want, except a Gunner! Can you believe it??
Sorry to see Hammers go down 😦 Poor Grant was tearful
Every one is entitled to their view but my hunch is that walcott hasn’t got a future at the club .he wants to play central and perhaps he would do better but I see mons cons than pros about his general play.
My own ‘guess’ as to the early movements in the Summer transfer window is;
a) The young right back Jenkinson (?) from Charlton.
b) The young winger from Southampton
c) Phil Jones from Blackbum.
All completed by End of June.
Bit sketchy on names today – and could not be arsed to look them up! 🙂
Morning all
New Post
Will we poach anyone from West Ham? Few of you like Scott Parker
Morning, Kelsey, 🙂
I want Theo to be excellent but my hopes are fading and he just is not showing that vital spark, so I am inclined to agree with you.
However, there is no way Arsene will let him go! 🙂
Hi Everyone, exciting news!
We’ve got a bit of Lee Dixon for a video interview and I’m looking for great questions so pop along and comment your questions 🙂
I’m giving all you folks priority as you’re mostly all sensible folks 🙂
http://www.wigangooner.co.uk/?p=497
WG