The Title: Why We’re In With A Shout

Silent Stan has been making the headlines.

But what’s excited me about The Arsenal this week has been the noise.

The noise of Arsenal players getting their heads in the game.

First: the noise of Robin van Persie bawling out Abou Diaby at half time versus Blackpool for getting himself a stupid yellow card.

Second: the noise of Jens Lehmann shouting at the players like a deranged sergeant major (or maybe that should be a deranged oberleutnant).

It is my bold contention that no quiet team has ever won a football league title. If there was such a thing as a Trappist Monks Eleven they would be dead certs for relegation. Their only chance of any points would come in the annual grudge match against the Mute Society.

But despite this self-evident fact, you can’t deny that Arsenal have been a quiet team in recent years.

Lots of skill, to be sure, but not much sound and fury. Cesc may well be a leader, but he is not an obviously vocal leader – you seldom see him yelling at his team mates and pumping his fists.

Sometimes professional footballers need support. Sometimes they need reassurance – an arm round the shoulder and a word in their shell-like that it’s OK, we all make mistakes.


I have it on good authority that Arsene Wenger instinctively prefers the shoulder to the arris, despite what the troglodytes of Old Toilet might chant on occasion. And, by bringing through a team largely made up of young players, he has produced a group in his own image.

They care, I’m sure, but they don’t show their passion in a way that was once the norm at Arsenal.

In the days of Adams, Keown and Vieira you could guarantee that any player doing something stupid would be given a severe telling off by his senior colleagues.

This would have two effects: one, it would make everyone acutely aware of their responsibilities to the team as whole; and two, it would raise the temperature among the players, firing them up to lift their game and take out their frustrations on the opposition.

So to hear that Robin tore into Abou for his silly yellow (particularly given the same player’s red card for retaliation against Newcastle earlier in the season) is greatly heartening.

It shows that Robin really cares.

It’s also the only occasion I can remember in recent times of a story getting out about one of our players chastising another for letting the side down.

Coupled with Mad Jens giving a masterclass in shouting, organising, shoving, jostling and cajoling, it gave a distinctly different flavour to our performance at Blackpool.

I noticed that even Eboue – a man who laughs more than Stuart Hall on helium – had caught the seriousness bug. When he belted our second goal into the ‘Pool net he didn’t react with his usual grinning imitation of Donny Osmond at the dentist’s. Instead he remained grim-faced and determined.

I really hope it betokens a change of attitude among our squad. Possibly, in the wake of the public criticism Arsene dished out to the team after the limp-wristed draw against Blackburn Rovers a week earlier, they have out their heads together and decided to come out fighting.

And if that means more shouting at each other, more holding of team mates to account, then I’m all for it.

Let’s bollock our way to being champions of England.



I know Rocky won’t mind me tagging this amazing charity event onto the end of his post. Our CarlitoII is taking part in this, so please support him if you can, read on ………………………

On 11 June 2011, Freedom in the Air (FITA) is holding its first skydive Freedom Freefall day. Supporters from across the country will join us at Peterborough Sibson airfield drop zone to take part in this amazing challenge and raise money for FITA. Carl Roberton is one of the 25 freefallers.

The charity is run and inspired by Gautam Lewis <> .
Gautam is a pretty inspiring chap as you’ll see from reading the press cuttings and watching the video on this page:

You can watch Carl’s video here:
For more info on the event and aims of the event:

The paypal sponsorship link is:

144 Responses to The Title: Why We’re In With A Shout

  1. Gunner38 says:

    Totally agree, it was a breath of fresh air to see the mad German winding up the opposition – even before the game he told the ref that he has to protect pensioners. We have missed that winning mentality for too long now. If I had my way, Jens would be in for the remaining games. We can win it – we just need to be nasty, loud and aggressive.

  2. Red Arse says:

    Hi Rocky, 🙂

    You have done it again. An amusing article highlighting a deficiency in our team mentality.

    They are all too nice.

    Before Robin gave Diaby a few well considered words of advice, at half time, Cesc had run up to him and said something (not shouted) and then riffled his hair, or patted him on the head.

    We need more shouters to remind the dozy ones why they are out there, and that it is a team game. Tony Adams or Viera would not have had to shout …… a withering stare would have ensured a repeat would not happen.

  3. Rasp says:

    Great post Rocky, I have been banging on about this for weeks.

    My last comment before today’s post was…. “Manu win more games because they have more battlers, more aggression in their side. Rooney, Park, Fletcher, Evra – they are all incredibly tenacious. We don’t have enough players with that level of fighting spirit”

    Our recruitment policy, training techniques and possibly the nurturing nature of the manager are more likely to dull the aggressive instincts rather than encourage them. It takes men of character to be leaders and inspire others with their actions and their words (shouts!!)

  4. Big Raddy says:

    RL. Fine post.

    Actually what I thought after reading your post was “You sod” because I got up early and spent an hour writing a post that is remarkably similar to yours!

    I think the team reflect the manager. AW as you say is more an arm around the shoulder and a “can we have a quiet word” man than a bawler like SAF. And so it is with our team.

  5. Evonne says:

    Rocky – I couldn’t agree more with you. I was thinking the other day of any other sportsmen that have won trophies and are nice and placid. I could not think of one, even Kasparov has a nasty streak to him

    Perhaps we should take your idea one step further – happy clappy fans are not passionate, and to show that we really care, we shall start fighting each other….where are you Peaches? I want a word with you about that evil grandson of ours!

  6. bops says:

    Whom are we kidding ?? We have away games to Bolton, Spurs, Stoke and Fulham.. All of them are terrific at home.. We should have got max from the Sunderland and Blackburn games so that there was room to maneuver now.. and ManU on the other hand dont look like dropping points at home and might drop a max of 2 points at Newcastle.. Maybe we will win against them at home..

  7. chas says:

    Too true, Rocky. We need more power, thrust and intensity both in our play and in our character.

    I’ve never liked the description of our dressing room at half time where everyone sits around indulging in omphaloskepsis. Perhaps we should employ a motivator if Arsene struggles to do it.

    Eboue looked so serious in his desire to show the away fans his love for the club after lashing that one in. Great stuff.

    This one made me laugh.

  8. London says:

    A superb, insightful post Rocky.

    It’s funny how we the English have this idea that if we punch the air and shout alot then somehow this helps win games. I notice, by contrast, that the Spanish national team rely on skill to win European tournaments and world cups.

    This is not to say I wasn’t pleased to read that Van Persie tore into Diaby over his silly yellow card….I certainly was.

  9. Rasp says:

    Morning London,

    Is it possible you are confusing the jingoistic tendencies of some fans with the need for fighting spirit within the players. I don’t mind if a player punches the air after winning a battle on the pitch, its just that it is ridiculous to think that is the preserve of the English.

  10. London says:

    Morning Rasp

    No, I don’t think I am confusing the issue, my point is that shouting and punching the air is over rated. As I have said before if chasing down and shouting won titles then Wolves would have won it for the last five years…..but they will be relegated.
    The Spanish National team, which includes our hair ruffling, non shouting captain, are World Cup winners.
    In brief, I believe that Arsenal need a greater level of skill rather than more macho shouters.

  11. Gooner in Exile says:

    A few bawlers woudn’t go a miss in the Arsenal team for sure, but you do have to wonder whether the players can take it. If RvP gets on Diaby’s case does it make him play better or worse?

    It is a question of tone, the stick works the first few times but in the end it’s effect becomes nullified.

    Re the Half Time meditation until last minute or so it never did our winning teams any harm, the difference being the current squad sometimes need a bit more direction. I think Wenger sometimes expects too much of these players, they have maybe not got the intelligence of his other squads to recognise what is going wrong on the pitch and who needs to change.

    Also Carlito I never realised you would be plummeting to Earth so close to home, therefore I am going to offer my services as official AA photographer!

  12. Red Arse says:

    Reading the dialogue between London and Rasp it appears that you are travelling down parallel paths that will not meet.

    English is the beautiful elastic language but it can lead to a misunderstanding of what the other fellow is saying.

    You are both right it seems to me. 🙂

    There is no virtue in players, or anyone else, running around yelling and waving their fists in the air, other than to let off steam.

    But telling someone you are displeased with them by looks or words, heated or otherwise, is designed to ensure they are aware their behaviour is not acceptable, and in a team game they should shape up or ship out!

    It is called communication. 🙂

    So there you are ….. you are both right, for different reasons.

  13. Rasp says:

    😆 chas

    Thanks London,
    I think we need a balance of the two. Referees cannot be relied upon to protect our skilfull players so we have to be able to ‘mix it’. Winning a greater percentage of 50/50 tackles is a measure of fighting spirit, jumping out of tackles is an inevitability when refs allow teams to be too physical against us.

    I don’t think tenacity and skill are mutually exclusive, in fact I would say that all great players possess both.

  14. Red Arse says:

    I only saw a limited amount of the Manu/Chavs game last night while playing cards.

    What struck me tho’ was the closing down of Chelsea by all the Manu players. Exactly the same way Barca played against us.

    There was none of the ‘stand off’ and wait for the oppo player to make a move before reacting which so bedevils our team.

    Incidentally, a propos of my earlier comment, I was playing Bridge last night, which is a team game requiring ritualised verbal ‘bids and counter bids’.

    It is considered rude to yell at your partner when they make a ridiculous ‘intuitive’ bid, which would make winning impossible, but the phrase “If looks could kill”, does occasionally spring to mind.

    Communication again! 🙂

  15. Evonne says:

    Chas – brilliant clip! ‘Spurs are playing at Barnabel, Arsenal watching Emmerdale’ !!

  16. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    “Manu win more games because they have more battlers, more aggression in their side. Rooney, Park, Fletcher, Evra – they are all incredibly tenacious. We don’t have enough players with that level of fighting spirit”

    You after a few more manu bloggers on here to bolster the number of comments again.

    I would say you blew your bolt too early after that 2-1 win over Barca & the certain win over Brum. Now its all gloom & doom apparently is it. Fickled? Or no idea about winning @ sport? Which is it?

  17. Gooner in Exile says:

    I don’t see much doom and gloom around here Gnarley. Just searching for answers for why a talented team has such propensity to throw it all (relatively) away.

  18. Carlito11 says:

    Rocky, I agree that a bit of vocal bollocking- precisely for upping the intensity has been lacking. It was either my first or second post on here that argued players should have their pride pricked more often by being hauled off if they are performing poorly. I think the same goes for shaking lethargy and inducing a more focused winning mentality by getting a earbashing from your colleagues/ peers.
    As we often say, we never really know what’s going on in the dressing room, but as a manager I often have to be quite severe with my staff as it’s important to lead the line and show what the acceptable standard is and that dropping below that line is unacceptable. When my staff show their frustration at a team-member “dropping the ball” I move to calm the situation but am also glad that there is a culture of excellence below me that is self-propagating. Therefore- Robin shouting at Diaby for getting a silly booking, pot calling the kettle black though it is, is a good sign. The “culture of excellence” at a football club is usually called a “winning-mentality”.
    Worryingly, despite this alleged rocket at halftime- we came out for the second half displaying a familiar torpor, so a bit more is required IMO!
    I still believe we can win the title, and I don’t think anyone alluding to the fighting spirit of Red Deviants is showing any less faith. We can be rational human beings as well as rabid Arsenal supporters, and I can only admire they made Chelsea look very ordinary over 2 legs with a disciplined and tenacious performance in the main. Maybe, an Eboue with added tenacity can also be a vital factor for the run in. We need those experienced heads to show leadership now…

  19. Carlito11 says:

    GiE- It would be great to have you and any other AAers there on the fund-raising day when I do my Icarus impression! Thanks Peaches/ Rasp for letting me try and raise funds through the site. It’s a cracking cause and I hope to be able to show footage of me being scared out of my wits soon after 11th June 🙂

  20. Hi Carlito – have you and micky made contact with each other?

  21. Carlito11 says:

    Hi Peaches,
    Micky has passed on my 2 tickets as he has too many other offers! What a great position to be in!

  22. Rasp says:

    I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about gnarley? Maybe you are questioning the way I support Arsenal – if you are, I’d just say that it is a personal choice, people are different.

  23. Gooner in Exile says:

    The positive role talking can play:

    Jack Wilshere

  24. Gooner in Exile says:

    ok that didn’t work there was supposed to be a quote in there!

  25. Gooner in Exile says:

    ahhh bollox html lessons needed last try:

    He was a bit like an assistant manager on the pitch. He was only called in 10 minutes before kick-off but it was great to have him around. He’s been there, done it all and was part of the ‘Invincibles’ so he knows what it takes to win the title. And we want to be like the ‘Invincibles’ too.

    He was telling us what it is like and was giving a team-talk at half-time. He is so passionate, you could see that. He was screaming and shouting at everyone. I remember him being a bit crazy and a bit of a character before. But he looks after himself and is great to learn from.

  26. Gooner in Exile says:

    Still didn’t work but thats what Jack said about Jens

  27. Carlito11 says:

    GiE- is that Wilshere talking about Eboue?

  28. Rasp says:

    Back to my ongoing diatribe about the lack of tenacity from some of our players. There has been a lot said about the Emirates crowd, its a chicken and egg situation – is it the job of the team to lift the crowd or the crowd to lift the team?

    Anyone who’s ever been to a game will have experienced the roar of the crowd when one of our players wins a hard tackle against a rated opposition player.

    Whether gg likes it or not, I repeat, our players are short on aggression. They have sufficient skill (but as London says, you can never have too much), but if they had more aggressive intent, they just might give that 1% extra that means they will bust a gut to get into the box and on the end of a cross, or perhaps put their laces through the ball a bit more often.

  29. Carlito11 says:

    oh- that makes sense now!

  30. Carlito11 says:

    Rasp- you are right- used to be a right character near me for the first 2 seasons at the Grove who always shouted “Do ‘im”, “Snap ‘im” and the like. It made us all laugh because it seemed like he had missed out on the wenger revolution and had teleported in from the mid nineties! He backs up your point though, that a couple of hard (but fair not leg-breakers obvs) tackles, definitely cranks up the atmosphere and gets the crowd on side. One of the key reasons why we’ve all taken Jack to our hearts this season…

  31. Red Arse says:

    The fans/team interaction is symbiotic Rasper, they both feed off the other.

    Why are you being picked on today? 🙂

  32. Gooner in Exile says:

    Flicking through and saw that Frimpong is talking about Wilshere’s success and saying he wants to get in the mix too.

    One comment stood out in the article:

    “Wilshere is just nine days Frimpong’s senior and the pair have been playing together since the age of nine. Now, a decade on, Frimpong is eyeing up a reunion when he returns to full fitness.”

    10 years these two have played in central midfield together. What kind of understanding will these two have when they get to play with each other in the first team…I know its looking to the future again but the prospect of that is a great comfort about the future of our team.

  33. Red Arse says:


    The AFC site says that Frimpong is off to America with the ‘yoofs’ for the Dallas Cup.

    So he must be well on the way back to fitness and maybe he will get back in the first team squad for the full pre-season.

  34. Rasp says:

    I like being picked on – it gives me a chance to show my tenacity 😕

    Symbiotic…. I wonder? Do you start laughing before the comedian gives you the punchline just to encourage him. I believe that the fans should definitely understand their responsibility to lift the team, but I would argue that primarily, the paid professionals should be the ones to inspire their audience and in doing so receive a greater return for their efforts.

    Peaches has come up with a fascinating theory about our player’s level of aggression that I am urging her to put into post. I will not spoil it by discussing it now but it makes a lot of sense.

  35. Gooner in Exile says:

    As we know if we need someone to show our lads tenacity it’s the “raven haired warrior princess” peaches down tools and post 🙂

  36. Rasp says:

    To qualify my last comment ….. ‘I would argue that primarily, the paid professionals should be the ones to inspire their audience’ – this applies to those fans that currently sit silently expecting to be entertained, the diehard supporters will always be vocal in their support but the ‘new fans’ seem to need a ‘prod’ be it a poor refereeing display or a contentious incident, to get them going.

  37. Red Arse says:


    I have a sympathy for your view, but, as I have read throughout the morning, there has been a blurring of the point you are making, perhaps.

    The symbiosis I was referring too, picking up on a point you made, is the interaction between the fans and the team.

    I think it is over complicating the point to wonder who starts the process.

    — A player produces a wonderful piece of skill and the crowd roars its encouragement; or
    — the crowd, in a high state of enthusiasm and expectation, roars the moment the kick off is taken and the players respond.

    What does it matter as long as the process, having started, continues to the benefit of all.

    The other point you seem to be making, is calling for a more tenacious and vigorous approach, which may or may not get the crowd going, but if the skill level on a particular day is enough to rouse the crowd, the more aggressive approach may not be necessary? (London’s point, I believe).

    We need to be careful not to get into philosophical semantics surely? 🙂 If the symbiosis works … it works, regardless who starts the process.

    You make a good point tho’! 🙂

  38. Rasp says:

    Thanks RA,

    As I said earlier, skill and tenacity are not mutually exclusive but they are the best example of ‘symbiosis’ I can think of – they potentiate one another. We have the skill, we sometimes lack the tenacity. The point about the crowd was a side issue, my main concern is regarding the ‘attack level’ of our players. The relevance to Rocky’s post is simply that when players are revved up, they tend to be more vocal and that is a good thing.

  39. Red Arse says:

    Communication, whether giving encouragement or geeing other players up is crucial and I cannot believe anyone could disagree.

    I think GIE said earlier that there needs to be some commonsense in how this is done. Some guys respond to a few sharp words, or a meaningful stare (still communicating), but others react better to a quiet word surreptitiously done.

    A good captain would know which method to apply to individual members of his team.

    Just like the management skills required in any well run organization, as Carlito alluded to earlier. 🙂

    You see, between the four of you, you have it cracked! 🙂

  40. RockyLives says:

    Hello All
    Having a busy work time so can’t stay long.
    Lots of good points made, but on the skill v tenacity point I would simply ask this: if you have the most gifted player in the world, will he not be even better if he puts in maximum effort than if he coasts?
    Essentially, it’s the Barca/Arsenal question: both teams have incredibly gifted individuals, but in the games we have played recently the Barca team ethic of non-stop running, working and tackling makes their geniuses more effective than our geniuses (most of the time).

  41. Red Arse says:

    Hi Rocky, 🙂

    Good stuff, again. 🙂

    You are spot on, application allied to skill is exactly what the Rasper and others have been discussing this morning, as a result of your excellent Post!

  42. Rasp says:

    We’re talking about different subjects here RA – I apologise if your last comment was in response to another blogger.

    I’m talking about how we can get that extra 1% out of a player. What would it take to get that miniscule extra level of ‘attack’ into a player? If you believe what they say about SAF, it would be fear of the manager?

  43. Rasp says:

    Hi Rocky,

    Thanks for another gem of a post. Barcelona not only work incredibly hard, they work incredibly hard for one another. I think this is an important point.

    The job of every player when we’re not in possession is to block the avenues of attack of the opposition. When we are in possession, it is to give our player with the ball options.

    I hate it when we get a throw in and seemingly no-one wants to show for the ball. The best players want the ball all the time, those lacking in confidence tend to shy away.

  44. mickydidit89 says:

    Hope I have not missed you. Stonker of a post. Some absolute gems in there. Lets “bollock our way to being champions” 🙂

  45. mickydidit89 says:

    Afternoon all.

  46. mickydidit89 says:

    Can’t wait for the Peaches Theory on “our player’s level of aggression”. Not unbelievably I too have a theory on this, and it has a lot to do with Wenger’s weird approach on diet. All steamed fish and raw vegetables just cannot be right to get you up for it on a cold winter’s day.

  47. micky, go no further, my theory also revolves around diet. Maybe we should collaborate and offer a joint post on the subject.

  48. Red Arse says:


    Below are a summary of your comments. Some are repeated, some overlap, but you seem determined not to accept a “yes” when you get it! 🙂

    a) “Manu win more games because they have more battlers, more aggression in their side. Rooney, Park, Fletcher, Evra – they are all incredibly tenacious. We don’t have enough players with that level of fighting spirit”.
    RA; Qualified yes!

    b) I don’t think tenacity and skill are mutually exclusive, in fact I would say that all great players possess both.
    RA; Agreed!

    c) Back to my ongoing diatribe about the lack of tenacity from some of our players. There has been a lot said about the Emirates crowd, its a chicken and egg situation – is it the job of the team to lift the crowd or the crowd to lift the team?
    RA; Does it matter? Crowd then team, or team and then crowd? Semantics?

    d) Anyone who’s ever been to a game will have experienced the roar of the crowd when one of our players wins a hard tackle against a rated opposition player.
    RA; yes.

    e) ‘I would argue that primarily, the paid professionals should be the ones to inspire their audience’
    RA; see above, ‘semantics’?

    f) As I said earlier, skill and tenacity are not mutually exclusive [RA; yes] but they are the best example of ‘symbiosis’ I can think of – they potentiate one another. We have the skill, we sometimes lack the tenacity. [RA; yes] The point about the crowd was a side issue, my main concern is regarding the ‘attack level’ of our players. The relevance to Rocky’s post is simply that when players are revved up, they tend to be more vocal and that is a good thing. [RA; yes]

    I’m talkig about how we can get that extra 1% out of a player. What would it take to get that miniscule extra ‘attack’ into a player.
    [RA; my response showed how communication can achieve this]

    Quit while you are ahead Rasper! 🙂

  49. mickydidit89 says:

    Excellent idea, although I may have snookered myself by playing my trump card already!
    I am absolutely positive that Peaches and I will demonstarte exactly how to get 10% extra. Minimum. 🙂

  50. Red Arse says:

    Hi Micky, 🙂

    Not the old fiery curry in their pre-match lunch, having them dash around the pitch emitting noxious gases? 🙂

  51. mickydidit89 says:

    My lips are sealed, although I have a feeling our fish eating chum, BR, may be a little disturbed by my recommendations!

  52. Carlito11 says:

    Szczesny and Djourou are back for Liverpool I hear. That is nothing short of marvellous news 🙂

  53. kelsey says:

    Nice post RL.

    Nasty streak means win more games and more red cards. the invinsibles tick all those boxes.

  54. kelsey says:

    And there is too much flirting going on here 😉

  55. Evonne says:

    Kelsey – agree about flirting wink wink 🙂

  56. What, have I missed some flirting 😦

  57. Red Arse says:

    Hi Evonne, 🙂

    Stop flirting with my friend Kelsey! 🙂

  58. Red Arse says:

    Well Peaches, it started with you and Micky increasing by 10%. Not sure what that means mind! 🙂

  59. Red Arse says:

    I am really cross with Usmanov. He keeps putting out conflicting messages on retaining his shares …. or not.

    I had nearly convinced 26 that any straightforward businessman would accept the inevitable and leave with his very nice profit.

    There was a get out clause 🙂 that he is so rich, he might ignore the risk to part of his £200m stake and stay just to bug Kroenke.

  60. Big Raddy says:

    Or sit on his shares with the hope of a successful stewardship by Kroenke and the associated rise in share price. Or until Stan will pay over the odds to gain full control.

    Great news about JD and the Pole

  61. Red Arse says:

    It seems I am talking to myself as usual, but before I sod off, I will say I am still very curious about Kroenke’s ‘debt free’ purchase of Arsenal.

    I thought someone was doing a Post on it. Oh, and did I say I thought it was bollox?


  62. mickydidit89 says:

    Perhaps AU has faith in SK increasing the value of his investment! All pretty vulgar this money stuff.
    I say: “Just get on with your nasty business both of you, don’t you dare muck about with our club, chuck some cash into the kitty and keep quiet. Thank you.”

  63. kelsey says:

    I was thinking exactly the same thing RA. “debt free” what does that actually mean. Where has the money come from to buy these shares from Fiszman and Lady nina, or is he paying in instalments as he did before if i recall correctly.

    We need an accountant on this blog to sort it out, if only we could find one 😉

  64. London says:

    General question

    Does it seem to anyone else that Usmanov staying put will keep Stan on his toes and thus there are advantages to us in having the Uzbek around?

  65. kelsey says:

    London, he is angry about not getting the shares and it is a natural knee jerk reaction.However to say he is an Arsenal supporter is a bit rich.

    Who knows what will happen, one may eventually buy the other out.

  66. mickydidit89 says:

    You mean a kind of checks and balance affair? I guess it depends on how honourable Stan’s intentions are. Maybe a bad thing to have a bit of a stench in the air.

  67. Red Arse says:


    A lone voice talking to me!! 🙂 Yaay!!

    I do not want to be the voice of doom (melodramatic pause) 🙂 but some of the sites have been almost hailing Kroenke as the Messiah.

    I keep saying; he is a businessman; he has no love for Arsenal, and until David Dein collared him he probably knew bugger all about Arsenal.

    He is in this for the return on his investment and one way or another that is what he will want, and what he will get.

    Eyes open guys is much better that eyes wide shut!

  68. mickydidit89 says:

    I thought he was a declared Utd fan. Could be wrong.

  69. mickydidit89 says:

    Sorry KeLsey.

  70. London says:

    It just occured to me for the first time that there might be a reason to actually like Uzmanov.

  71. mickydidit89 says:

    Look here Romeo, all this smoothe talking has got to stop. You are upsetting the inmates.

  72. mickydidit89 says:

    Nope, can’t think of one. 🙂

  73. kelsey says:

    Exactly Micky,
    He is a confirmed united fan, but today when he said he would not sell he said he loves Arsenal.

    Two timing bitch 😉

  74. Evonne says:

    London – I disagree, I recon the ugly Uzbek will put the spanner in the works out of spite. He is angry and feels that he was stiched up; he has nothing to gain now from playing the ball and he can well afford to lose out on the value of his shares.

  75. London says:


    Checks and balances is exactly what I mean. Usmanov stops Stan having complete power therefore Usmanov is a good thing.

  76. mickydidit89 says:

    Now Szczesny and Djourou being back is seriously good news. We cannot be having Carroll and Suarez going all back-of-the-netty on us. No way.

  77. Red Arse says:


    As usual you have hit the nail on the head.

    Kroenke either had to sell other assets to raise the cash; pay the shareholders Lady Nana and Danny with loan or promissary notes, or effectively take out a ‘mortgage’ leveraged on his overall assets (which inherently would ultimately include his shares in Arsenal, thru’ his holding compamy, KSE) or have drilled into some very cheap loans from the US Government via a bank owned by the US Govt, (like RBS in the UK) which means that ultimately the US taxpayer owns all or part of Arsenal.

    OK, melodramatic but we need to know how this ‘debt free’ purchase is being funded.

  78. London says:


    Usmanov has done nothing to endear me to him as a person but it is hard to argue against his business acumen and with that in mind I find it hard to think that he would purposely harm the value of his investment.

  79. mickydidit89 says:

    You may well be on to something. Just not so sure having major shareholders putting drawing pins on each other’s seats is ideal. Could work though.

  80. mickydidit89 says:

    Here’s a positive. Maybe Stan could do something about the Hot Dawgs!
    To work for a bit now.

  81. Red Arse says:


    I thought for a second there you were about to say ‘putting the tail of the donkey on to each other with drawing pins’ but you have no sense of humour …… obviously!! 🙂

  82. mickydidit89 says:

    There is so much fun to be had in a Boardroom with someone you don’t like!
    Really work now.

  83. Evonne says:

    London – I hope you are right, experience tells me otherwise.
    As to his business acumen – it wasn’t very difficult to amass millions in post communist Russia and the satellite republics.
    I just hope we are not expose to Gillette – Hicks shananigans, the reputation of the Club has been exemplary until now.

  84. Yesterday I read an article by Wigan Gooner which explained that SK has been instructed by the monopolies commission(I think) in the US to sell a couple of his other sporting aquisitions.

  85. Evonne says:

    P – do you mean SK?

  86. I think London is right, I believe having AU still in the background will keep the rest of the board on their toes although I’m not sure how much power he has as he doesn’t have a seat on the board.

  87. 🙂 when I typed ST I thought that didn’t sound right

  88. Thanks Evonne, I’ll change it 😛

  89. Gooner in Exile says:

    Ok Stan is buying Bracewell-Smiths shares by loam notes (2.5%) in KSE not leveraged on the club and acceptable for the seller for tax reasons.

    He has not yet acquired DF’s shares as there is a put and call option at the agreed price, this means that DF can sell when he wants or SK can buy when he wants.

    So the only cash he needs now is to buy Usmanovs shares should he be willing to sell.

  90. Gooner in Exile says:

    By Kroenkes shares I meant DFs shares……man I need edit features

  91. Thanks GiE. SK has aquired shares from DF and other directors holding small numbers of shares over the past 18 months and no money changed hands as far as we know – so what’s new then???????

  92. Gooner in Exile says:

    Peaches it is true SK needs to relinquish ownership of Avalanche and Nuggets by 2014, he has already passed day to day control to his son, and will probably sell to him, but for cash….who knows?

    The reason is that NFL rules prevent a controlling interest of a major team in a rival state that contains a NFL team. Strange rule but one with which he has to comply.

  93. I think that neither DF nor Lady Nina are waiting for their money, they just need to know who controls their shares and Arsenal need to know who controls their shares

  94. kelsey says:

    GIE @ 6.56.

    Could you kindly put this into layman terms,as I don’t honestly understand what you said.Thanks.

  95. Harry says:

    Rocky, Top Post as usual, Of I course I totally agree with have a chance…..

    Rasp it is a direct ratio….

    Team Playing well…

    Team lift crowd:crowd responds

    Team having a moment (or two)

    Crowd lift team:Team plays better

    Now obviously this season there has been too much of the second option, but thats football…….

    Lets all lift the team and roar them on, now ok we might miss out, as we have given United too much of an edge this close to the end…But as I said weeks ago 2nd isnt safe, so lets push all the way…..

    If we lose it by a point, its going to hurt, but to push all the way will aid the confidence for next season….

    And what the hell was GG9 on about???? Is there a translator in the house?

  96. kelsey says:


    are you saying that kroenke isn’t actually paying for the shares as yet but is giving colatteral of the value against his other assets.

  97. Evonne says:

    Kelsey – I didn’t understand GIE explanantion but didn’t want to appear dim

    GIE – please explain….

  98. kelsey says:


    Thank God for that 😉

  99. Evonne says:

    Kelsey – wink wink 🙂

  100. kelsey says:

    Right, no response so off to watch Adebayor score a brace. Night all.

  101. kelsey says:

    sadly,fiszman has just died.

  102. Irishgunner says:

    RIP Danny Fiszman.

  103. Big Raddy says:

    Night Kelsey.

    I have pretended to understand the chat over the past couple of days but I am more a people person than a figures man, which is reflected in my financial situation and my education!

    Hoping that The Chosen One can get his team to humiliate Spurs in front of their own fans, but I expect that with 4 El Classico’s coming up, he will rest many of his team.

  104. Big Raddy says:

    That is very sad news. My thoughts are with him and his family.

  105. London says:

    Very sad, the end of an era.

  106. Evonne says:

    😦 😦

  107. Gooner in Exile says:

    Sorry guys was away to explain myself better.

    Indeed sad news about Fiszman a man credited with most of the brilliance that was the move to the Grove.

    Ok now to explain what i was saying earlier.

    Kroenke has offered Loan Notes to Nina Bracewell Smith (these loan notes are also offered to anyone who wants to sell their shares).

    They are a loan to KSE, and are in no way leveraged specifically on Arsenal Holdings plc. Basically its an IOU which enables the payee (Nina Bracewell Smith) to receive cash over a period of time normally with interest added, the interest rate on KSE loan notes offered is 2.5% from memory.

    “A loan note can help an individual investor avoid an undue tax hit resulting from a lump sum payment from a settlement or cash-out package from a company. In these cases, the individual is given a choice between cash or a loan note.

    When loan notes are used between businesses, the purchaser is able to act as a borrower and make payments over time, often at a minimal or “at cost” interest rate. ”

    The above is why Bracewell Smith took loan notes.

    As for DF Nominees Ltd the company which DF transferred his shares into a while back they have decided to agree a call put option for the shares with KSE.

    Basically a call option is the right at any time for the buyer (KSE) to buy the shares. A put option is the right iat any time for the seller (DF Nominees) to sell the shares.

    As this is a call put option it means that whenever the time is right for either party the transaction will happen, but it doesn’t mean it has happened yet, but i would assume it isn’t set to happen for some time in the future.

    My guess is that DF wanted to make sure the deal was done before his passing as any inheritor may have tried to maximise wealth rather than do what is best for the club, if that was Fiszmans final act I think we should all be eternally grateful.

  108. Evonne says:

    GIE – thank you for taking time to explain, all clear now.

  109. RockyLives says:

    Sad news about Danny Fiszman.
    Clearly those close to him must have known he was approaching the end. If his final act was to ensure a smooth handover of his shares to a man he believes will have the best interests of the club at heart, that’s quite impressive.

  110. SharkeySure says:

    Cracking post Rocky, no change there really.

    Gnarley – has someone hijacked your account.?? You only seem to keep banging on about shot bolts lately when we do hear from you. The old Gnarley used to be much more engaging, can we have that one back please..??

    Carlito “GiE- is that Wilshere talking about Eboue?”. Quality. Oh and I’ve stuck a few quid on your FITA thingy. Sterling work for a very worthy cause. Well played.

    Nite all

    Oh and commiseratons to the family of a man who really did do the Arsenal proud. Right up to his dying days as it turns out. Top man.

  111. 26may1989 says:

    Evening everyone.

    First things first, RIP Danny Fiszman. I can’t say I ever felt huge waves of fondness for him, but a premature death is always a sad thing. He (or rather his family) may have profited from his interest in the club, but he also did a huge amount in transforming the infrastructure of the club, first in resisting Dein’s folly of a move to Wembley, and then in overseeing the new stadium development.

    As for Rocky’s post, that is a classic, I agree with every word. Thank you my man.

  112. London says:

    I am no longer a David Dein fan but I feel the need to say something in his defence as I simply do not accept the urban myth about him, Arsenal and Wembley.
    I start by acknowledging that I do not have first hand information just common sense pointing me in the opposite direction.

    Step one: it is decided that Arsenal have to find a bigger ground and all agree.

    Step two: locations are sought; Kings Cross and Wembley emerge as serious candidates. Dein is rumoured to have been keen on Wembley but this is not to imply that he favoured Wembley over Kings Cross, we don’t know the logistics.

    Step three: general unhappiness in the Arsenal ranks as it is reasonable to assume that not everyone was happy moving to Wembley.

    Step four: some bright spark points out that there is a potential space two hundred yards from Highbury, the anti-Wembley faction let out a huge sigh of relief as the Wembley idea loses momentum.

    And here’s the thing: I see no reason why Dein wouldn’t have seen the advantages of Ashburton Grove in the same way as every other Arsenal supporter did. Just because he appeared to be the principal advocate of Wembley does not mean to me that he would not have changed his mind when the far more desirable location of the Grove appeared.

    This is as far as my defence of Dein goes, until I am shown evidence that he wasn’t trying to stage an unwelcome take over of the club (which is the reason he was ousted) I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the day to day running of Arsenal.

  113. mickydidit89 says:

    RIP Danny Fiszman.
    Thanks for all the honest work you did for our club. Our thoughts are with you and your family.

  114. London says:

    Here’s another thought, if you were Jens and you received a call asking if you would return as back up what would your one stipulation be?

    Mine would be only if I am guaranteed to play in one first team game.

    Just a thought.

  115. Evonne says:

    Hiya London, I was thinking the other week what a lucky fellow Jens was, and how happy he must have been to play for Arsenal again. In my opinion, he didn’t need much persuading to come back.

    Also, your take on David Dein – those men (Dein and Usmanov) have huge egos, they like power and don’t like things not going their way. Often their behaviour is less than desirable – I don’t mean to slur especially DD’s character, because I want him back, just thinking aloud. And, I am not deliberately dissagreeing with you, wouldn’t dare 🙂

  116. Big Raddy says:

    London. Two fine points to start the day. Both have value.

    Dein must have been very insistent upon bringing Red & White in, and the ensuing uproar was surely because his fellow directors felt betrayed. Unless they go first I believe it is highly unlikely he will return. And if so in what capacity?

    You must be right about Jens. There had to be a sweetener.

  117. Evonne says:

    Thanks Big Raddy, I thought we were mates !

  118. Big Raddy says:

    No Evonne. Thanks to you ….. 🙂 And of course we are mates

    I am going to Italy tomorrow for 10 days R & R,. No internet, no phones, no tele, just wine, women (woman!!) and song ….

  119. WiganGooner says:

    Great post Rocky, great comments too guys n gals.

    It was refreshing to see Mad Jens bawling at the defence, its certainly not gone unnoticed by me that whilst Djourou and Koscielny talk and communicate Squillaci and Koscielny do not. Its not the language barrier, so I’ll assume Squillaci’s just not a talker.

    Koscielny is going to be a great player, but whilst he’s still finding his feet at this level (which will take another season at least) he will need guidance from the likes of Squillaci, Djourou and Vermaelen.

    Its great to hear the likes of Jack saying it like it is, he found it refreshing and it helped push the team on when Jens was bawling at them.

    Certainly when I was playing football, we were always screaming at each other…but thats probably because we cocked up more than we should have.


  120. Evonne says:

    BR – oh, why??? What have I done??

  121. Big Raddy says:

    Evonne, Because I have a house there and I love the place, and why not??

    I rarely take notice of spurious media speculation but there is a story in today’s paper about Cesc asking his agent to start talks with Real Madrid. How do these hacks get away with this type of nonsense – and get paid ?? It beggars belief.

  122. Just putting the record straight(ish) about David Dein.

    DD introduced Kroenke to the board and paved the way for him to invest money in Arsenal. He tried to get Lady Nina to sell some of her shares to Kroenke and that’s when the shit hit the fan. Alledgedly – the rest of the board closed ranks and sent DD packing. He then sold his shares to Usmanov who under ‘Red and White Holdings’ installed Dein as Managing Director but Dein later cut his ties and resigned from the company.

  123. mickydidit89 says:

    I recently asked my agent to start talks with Arsenal. He said that for an up front fee, he would 🙂

  124. kelsey says:

    I have told myself not to get involved in a discussion about David Dein’s past involvement at Arsenal, though I have a strong feeling he will be back in some sort of capacity .

  125. Big Raddy says:

    That’s odd Micky. I am in negotiation with AC Milan – and my agent was very generous with his terms

  126. Big Raddy says:

    Thanks Peaches. Morning Kelsey

  127. London says:

    Morning BR

    I think the words Red & White in your 8:35 should read Kroenke. It was with the American that Dein was accused of his first unwelcome take over.

  128. Big Raddy says:

    London. Mea Culpa

  129. London says:

    I have just seen Peaches comment which mirrors my understanding of the situation.

  130. kelsey says:

    Morning BR and everyone else.

    Of to italy AGAIN.What sort of supporter are you,going away at this crucial period in our season. How the rich live. 😉

  131. mickydidit89 says:

    I hope this Italian gaff of yours is somewhere near a small village where you might need to go shopping for supplies on, say, sunday and wednesday.

  132. Poor Raddy, he’s going to miss all these games, I’d blame the fixture list if I were him 😆

  133. Morning kelsey – come on, tell us what you think about DD

  134. Big Raddy says:

    LOL Kelsey!!

    Micky. The locals will have no interest in the PL. My only hope is an Internet cafe and then pray they do not block streams, and the nearest one is 20 miles away. You guys will just have to carry my hopes on your broad shoulders

  135. Big Raddy says:

    Still ….. where there is a will there is a way 😉

  136. Red Arse says:

    Morning Peeps, 🙂

    London has a very good point regarding David Dein.

    It would be a mistake to form opinions on anyone based solely on rumour and newspaper stories.

    In addition, and lets be honest here, where someone falls foul of their company the PR machine will ‘brief’ the media and others with their version of events, slewed to their own benefit, of course.

    What we do know about Dein, that is public knowledge, is that he was a slick, motivated Arsenal director, who always looked out for thier interests.

    He was instrumental in forming the breakaway Premier League by convincing the FA it was the right thing to do. This, of course, led to the Sky deals which put big bucks into the coffers of his club, Arsenal, and also other English clubs so that they could compete against the then dominant Spanish and Italian leagues.

    At the time the G14 group dictated musch of European footaball policies and he got Arsenal admitted to that exclusive club and had himself appointed as Chairman. He became a key figure in English football, much to the chagrin of Manu and Chelsea.

    Everything he did benefitted Arsenal, and no doubt he also enjoyed the personal prestige his ‘ambassadorial’ role gave him throughout world football.

    That much we know. The removal from his directorship at Arsenal is the subject of rumour, conjecture and innuendo.

    Disclaimer: I do not know DD or have any reason to like or dislike him for that very reason. I do have great respect for what he has achieved for Arsenal and English football as a whole.

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