Written by Gooner in Exile
I read with interest Craig Bellamy’s comments before the England Wales game the other week. Although I don’t like the irritating little bugger I thought this quote may shine some light on our recent performances.
“Are England players scared? I remember Steven Gerrard, before playing Andorra, saying he didn’t want to give the ball away because he was afraid of the boos, that’s Steven Gerrard, one of the greatest players in the world over the past 10 years.”
Substitute Arsenal for England, Denilson for Steven Gerrard, and WBA for Andorra and he could be talking about the boys in Red and White.
I have been to a few games this season, and watched most of the rest on the box, and what have I noticed more than anything else, its the lack of flicks and tricks, something that is so prevalent in our game when confident has slowly ebbed away this season. When this current side was in their pomp you see moments of brilliance that bamboozle defences and create openings.
When did this stop, I personally can’t remember the last goal coming from a neat piece of skill providing the assist, it seems to have become about playing percentages, ball to feet, to feet, to feet, to feet, to feet wide and deliver to no one. What happened to the clever pass, the gamble. The problem with this type of percentage football, it is not going to be enough for us to break down a park the bus team of defenders.
The reaction of the fans in the ground to misplaced forward passes or any passes for that matter has become so negative that our players appear to have decided keeping possession is more important than going forward and taking risks. Rather than flicks they try and be precise with all passes as long as it keeps possession, as long as their not the culprit to concede possession. Against Blackburn on Saturday the amount of forward passes around the 18 yard box were counted on one hand. This in turn leads to what we have seen lately the slowing down of every attack to make sure someone is there to receive the ball to feet.
The groaning that greets nearly every misplaced pass will only prevent the pass from being tried again as the player, it even happened to Cesc when trying to lift it through to Van Persie, the groan went around the North Bank instantly. Surely we should have appreciated or encouraged the intent rather than bemoan that it didn’t get where he wanted it to.
Think back to the Barca game in the Nou Camp our defence stood firm for 44 minutes, and then for a further 30 minutes of the second half, in that time how many times did Xavi, Iniesta, or Messi have their moves break down battering against our defence. However they kept coming back and trying it again again and again. Were they disheartened? No, did you hear their fans groan, no they greeted every near miss, every close pass with oohs and aahs encouraging their players to do it again, making our lads feel like they had lived dangerously again, and that the pressure was building.
When Lee Dixon was once asked by another ex pro about his time under Wenger:
‘Was it true that Bergkamp was the only one allowed to be back to goal and go towards the ball and everyone else had to move forward?’
Dixon laughed and said “nothing of the sort, Wenger just told us to play without fear”.
Perhaps thats what needs to be re instilled into the team to play, for that to happen I think the supporters need to have to change the reaction to missed passes. Not every pass will be successful, but its about time we got off their backs and allowed them to play with the freedom and expression that has been so joyous to watch in the past. It won’t always come off but if they try it enough times it eventually will.
Some stats to leave you with.
Our most consistent passers:
Denilson 90.8% completion
Diaby 90.7% completion
Our worst outfield passer:
Arshavin 70.65% completion
Who has the most assists? Arshavin with eleven. The point is if we want our team to prove they are technically better than the rest of the Premier League we need to allow them the freedom to play, they need to be allowed to hit the occasional mis pass or be encouraged to try the impossible ball, because sometimes it works.
As a side note if you want to see the negative effect of the boo boys and groaners:
Denilson Stats
Pass completion:
2008/09 – 86%
2009/10 – 86%
2010/11 – 91%
Chances Created:
2008/09 – 35
2009/10 – 11
2010/11 – 1
And before anyone tells me that it is not the fans job to give these boys encouragement that the coaching team at Arsenal should be good enough to send them out confident ask youself this:
If you went to work today and your boss told you had a great day but on the way home a third of the people on the train told you you had been awful today, which one would affect you more?
Arsenal News 24/7
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Great stuff GIE thanks a lot. With luck you will get some of the boo boys to think a bit, Cesc’s chip over the top is so like Chippy’s and JW isn’t bad at it either. If played properly the runner is on goal before the defence can turn, magic ball it only has to work once a game.
Top post GIE and every word of it true. I believe too many of us have forgotten that confidence is everything and as fans we should do all we can to encourage even if we dont feel like it. To give another analogy, if your child (imagine if you dont have kids) has a series of tests coming up and you witnessed the mocks that they have practised at home not go so well, would you tell them to give up and that they were not good enough or encourage them ( even if you felt deep down they would fall short)
As I have said before to give encouragement seems to cause some people pain and I dont know why
Excellent observation backed up with interesting stats. I hope this info spreads around the gooners and we get back to supporting the players on matchdays and cut out the groans.
Sorry, I didn’t complete the article because I couldn’t stop myself laughing at the fact you were comparing Denilson with Gerrard!!! lol…. The only way they are comparable is that they both wear shorts occasionally!!
Never a truer word spoken!! Some of our fans have made the comment that our players need a good kick up the backside, well there’s nothing better in life than positive energy to get things going. Negative energy brings you negative results, it’s no surprise to see that we have the best away record in the league.
I have to say that i have been more disappointed by our ‘fans’ behaviour than by the team. ‘Not fit to wear the shirt’ could be applied to some of our fan base too. I love my team and i always will, i’m not part of the AKB crew, i’m not part of the anti AKB crew and i’m not sitting on the fence. I just love Arsenal, wish others could do the same, then maybe things would get better. Some fans need to take a good long hard look at themselves in the mirror!!!
Theopants, it would appear you are not intellectually capable of understanding the post. If you read again, you might gleen that the author was saying that even Gerrard “one of the greatest players in the world over the past 10 years” worries what the crowd reaction would be if he made mistakes – meaning that he is at the other end of the scale to Denilson – not saying he is comparable. If your point is that Denilson is not very good then find a site that wants to debate that subject, GiE is writing about the effect confidence in terms of crowd reaction, has on a player’s performance.
Top post (almost the only positive one I have read for weeks).
I live in Holland and only watch the matches on TV. What is also obvious that during away matches the traveling supporters are much more vocal and positive (like real supporters!).
Morning all, thanks for the comments so far. I’m glad most agree.
As Rasp points out Theopants you have missed the point of the post, I am in no way comparing the two but I am drawing a comaprison between the thought patterns, I could have easily have used Arshavin, or Nasri.
I had meant to add some other stats to the post re players from other clubs.
Nani has achieved 72% pass completion and Rooney 71% and they are Uniteds top two goal creators according to the stats.
@gunnie – stick around there are plenty of positive posts here, check back over the last few weeks. You may have found a new home. 😀
Good point. Ars game slow because lack of confidence and good grief every one turning Denilson! With Almunia in goal Ars guaranteed to go down 0-1 in remaining games… But Don’t blame the fans and spectators who are paying players’ salaries. Players are professionals and there is nothing wrong with honest customer feedback. Blackburn was the latest poor display of a month long string of terrible results. AW knows that his 5 year plan needs big surgery this time. Ditch the deadweights and crocks.
Great read. So called fans or supporters have been brandishing the knives for the players and managers. Hard to find a positive read these days. Are we that poor? Maybe, but isnt it this time the players need the fans most? Talks about AW not buying this or that.. it is not so easy to go in and get these players. Even if he tried, some fans will say he did not put in enough effort or money…
Hi Archimedes,
I am of the opinion that just because you pay someones salary doesn’t give you the right to withhold encouragement just becuase you re not getting your desired outcome immediately.
Feedback surely is akin to an annual appraisal in our case it would be at the end of the season. Booing and continually berating our players would not be tolerated in most other walks of life, so why is football any different.
I suggest you start up a business or manage a set of people ( if you dont already). Treat them daily in the same way that you claim to reserve the right to treat the current set of arsenal players, then use the reason/excuse ‘ I pay them alot of money’ in your defense, the tribunal will laugh you out of the room whilst relieving you of a further few tousand pounds.
Dont get me wrong you are entitled to complain if you are not happy, but it is the time and the manner in which some supporters do it than I find counter productive and non sensical
Morning all, it was good to have actual statistical proof of the deterioration in the number of higher risk passes and they are surely related to the negative reaction if these riskier, but potentially more rewarding, passes don’t come off.
GiE, I’ve often said that why can’t the fans stifle their groans at the very least if they can’t bring themselves to cheer?
Peachy will agree that men are good at suppressing how they are really feeling so why on earth can’t the crowd, which is largely male, keep their nervousness in?
BTW – great to see Shrek has not had his 2 game ban reduced – the only shame of it is the FA didn’t increase his ban for frivolous appealing, but I guess I’m just being greedy wishing for that.
So here’s to 3 dropped points against Fulham and being dumped out of the FA Cup by Shitty, who finally seem to be getting their act together.
The quicker the media crapola about sodding ManUre and their poxy f***in’ treble can be quelled the better.
Wonderman:
“then use the reason/excuse ‘ I pay them alot of money’ in your defense, the tribunal will laugh you out of the room whilst relieving you of a further few thousand pounds.” 😀
GiE,
Great work. Thank you.
I will tell you something interesting, and relevant, that I learnt recently. At the Barcelona Youth Academy, they play matches. Eleeven v Eleven, Five-a-side, bit like all clubs do. Here is the big difference. They are never allowed to discuss, or even ask, the result. The winning/losing is irrelevant. They believe it stifles players development in that they need to be encouraged to experiment and try new things.
I wonder if we express ourselves better away as we are free from the home boo boys.
Hi GIE, 🙂
Excellent post, and to think you have to thank that pillock Graig Bellamy for setting your train of thought in motion!! 🙂 🙂
I think you put the case commendably and I too liked Wonderman’s follow up.
You get more results with a stick full of honey rather than a stick up the arse, as they say in Rajastania. Who said I made that up? 🙂
Back later.
Red Arse. Do me a favour mate before you call that fine footballer Bellamy a pillock, do some research on what he does with his own money in Africa, he might be volatile but a pillock he aint. He is in my mind one special human being,
http://www.craigbellamyfoundation.org/
@micky that is very interesting and similar to the way a young Norwich side I came up against in my early days was coached. Their youth team used to play in our Reserve League, we had beaten them 4-2 but I heard their coach coming off the pitch and instead of rollicking he was saying all the things they did right, and areas that need to be worked on.
It is true that results at youth level count for little at Senior level, look at the famous Portugese golden generation.
@RedArse re: Bellamy who’d have thunk it?!? But to be fair his on pitch persona is one of a little git, off the pitch in interviews he is actually insightful and worth listening to, he does much that is relatively unknown (like the soccer academy in Sierra Leone that he funded out of his own money …… http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/06/18/uk-soccer-africa-leone-idUKL1562152120080618 ). He has also said recently that Cardiff (if promoted) should not employ him as he is too expensive and no matter how much he has enjoyed it he does not want his financial requirements to prevent the development of others, or acquisitions of new signings that would be needed.
Friends I have to disagree: The current sqad of first team players have done all they can, and is not capable of giving any more, try as hard as they may. For the Wenger system to work, we need a team that is faster, sharper, stronger, more skilled, more mentally able than any other team in the Premiership. A team that will not accept defeat. Joe average will not suffice.
As much as he is a little git on the pitch as an opponent he would be a great addition for us, his directness and unselfish continual running are what makes him so valuable to many clubs. Only his similarity to Tevez has prevented him staying at City. And his eagerness to play football rather than take the money.
Bearman
“For the Wenger system to work, we need a team that is faster, sharper, stronger, more skilled, more mentally able than any other team in the Premiership”
Surely easier said than done, City haven’t managed that with their available budget, what can we do….or are you suggesting it is impossible for Wengerball to work in the Premier League full stop?
I kind of agree with Bearman. Peaches may publish a post I have on the subject tomorrow, although any boardroom movement will take up all available blog space I suspect.
Off again. Sorry, endless incoming emails today.
GIE,
You raised the question of Arsenal’s status the other day after I chatted with Rob.
I had not wanted to get too heavy with ‘accountancy’ speak with him, but in the light of apparent developments, predicted by Kelsey, it may be worth setting out the bare bones of the Arsenal Group structure.
My reasons for not wanting to get too deep into this with non accountants might become apparent with the following breakdown. 🙂
“Arsenal” has a parent company called Arsenal Holdings plc. This operates as a non-quoted public limited company, with a restricted share capital.
Only 62,217 shares in Arsenal have been issued, and they are not usually traded on the public exchanges but rather they are traded infrequently on a specialist market.
At the moment a single share in Arsenal has a ‘mid price’ of about £11,000, putting the club’s market capitalisation at about £700m.
Arsenal Holdings plc wholly owns 12 subsidiary companies, covering the group’s activities. These include;
a) Arsenal Football Club plc (the football club itself),
b) Arsenal (Emirates Stadium) Limited (which develops and owns Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium),
c) Arsenal Stadium Management Company (which manages the stadium on matchdays),
d) Arsenal Overseas Ltd (which manages retail operations),
e) Various other subsidiaries dealing specifically with overall property development on the site of Arsenal’s former stadium at Highbury and, the associated property holding and financing operations.
Each of these companies are separate legal entities and when Rob and others protest at the speed of debt reduction and its impact on tranfer funds, it begs the question ‘what debt are you referring to?’
The holding company, the football company, the stadium company, the property company …. which one?
Anyway, if something happens with the shareholding, at least when we discuss matters we are all singing to the same hymn sheet! 🙂
Dandan,
I would happily do you a favour if I could.
I did not intend to offend your sensitivities regarding Bellamy and his off field activities.
My intention was to humourously tease GIE who wrote an intelligent and thought provoking Post and is clearly the opposite of the aggressive, ranting persona Bellamy projects on the pitch.
I know you love to pull me up about one thing or another, but could you in turn do me a favour, and stop thinking ill of me at every opportunity?
So no one happy to see the back of Shrek for 2 domestic games ?
And no Fergie on the touchline either – that’s 2 big boils on the face of humanity we don’t have to see on the pitch/pitchside.
Unfortunately Chary as you highlighted one is in the cup so of no benefit.
And with Hughes in charge at Fulham I see no more than a rollover.
“2 big boils” – you have such a way with words 😀
HELLO everyone 2 days to go before blackpool thumping
PS: great post
We can hope for dropped points at Fulham only that will be of direct help to us I agree GiE, but for them to crash out of the FA Cup would end this “treble talk” bollocks nicely and hopefully dent their confidence(I know, less chance of that with ManUre than most).
GIE,
Your stats info is excellent. I still play around with the spreadsheet you forwarded via Rasp, and have tried to automate the updates with macros.
It has defeated me so far, but whenever I get bored I go back to experiment further! 🙂
The Denilson figures were a surprise to me, at first, but looking at the way he plays, this season, he nearly always opts for the ‘safe’ short sideways and backwards passes. That undoubtedly helps improve his successful completion stats.
I definitely think you are onto something with the suppressed groans of the fans at misplaced flicks and flacks. These flicks are brilliant at unlocking tight defences but look feeble when they go awry.
The player who suffers most from the crowd’s disapproval, in this respect, is Arshavin who can do spectacular back heels, flicks etc but his confidence can easily be shattered by the groans and his success ratio plummets as a result.
Interestingly checking Arshavins stats back for the last two years his pass success percentage has not varied greatly and neither have his assists.
I don’t think his confidence suffers greatly as a result of the boo boys. But I have wondered how his treatment this year has affected younger members of the squad. Cescs success percentage has also gone up (2%) whilst his attempts created have gone down.
The fact that Denilson used to create more chances was the key stat to me, especially when linked to the dramatic rise in pass completion percentage.
By the way that was not my spreadsheet I think I remember the one you’re referring to (results against other teams comparison) was it Brighams.
RA Sorry iI took so long to reply have been out plant buying but please dolighten up, I was not pulling you up, but pointing out he couldn’t be further from a pillock, Don’t be so sensitive I was not having a go, honestly you will know when I am after you, Cos I wont mince my words, Interestingly I am sure that it wont have escaped your notice that GIE responded in a like manner to that post a bit further down.
As far as the arse and finances are concerned your professional insight is helpful in fact I was thinking of pulling some accounts from companies house to have a browse but given the info you have provided I suspect the smoke screen would be a bit dense for a journeyman like me to fully unravel.
Great post GiE!
This is without a doubt the best Arsenal blog, with some excellent articles and comments.
Interesting stats there.
I’d be curious to know what Cesc and Nasri stats are like, as I suppose they must be the most assists in the team.
Think it might be gunner65 or something like that in Canada. He is a friend of Kelseys.
I am sorry for mistaking your intent Dandan. Not a good day for me today. Trying not to feel sorry for myself or be a pain to others.
Don’t always succeed. 🙂
GIE,
I am embarrassed not to remember whose spreadsheet it was. And especially as it was such a good one.
Perhaps it was Brigham or GN5 as Dandan suggested, hopefully the proud author could let me know and I will thank him for the endless hours of (unsuccessfully) playing with macros I have had! 🙂
Dandan,
The group structure I outlined might well be out of date, and most of it was from memory following on from the Lady Nina Bracewell fallout (hence the sneaky grouping together of several subsidiaries in the list) 🙂 but don’t tell anyone! 🙂
But it broadly explains the set up, with each subsidiary owned by, and reporting to, the Holding company, and each with its own P&L and Balance Sheet.
If Kelsey’s info proves correct or anyone else wants to talk debt/profit/cash it will make a bit more sense.
The prudent man would advise you to go to Companies House for the real deal tho’! 🙂
I would say avoid Companies House, most of the detailed info you need is there for all to see on Arsenal website, with some extra fluffing by the Board 😉
@djrc As I said in the post Arsh leads the team in assists followed by Cesc and Theo. If looking at chances created the leader is Cesc followed by Samir and Jack, then Arsh.
The following might help:
2010/11
Cesc 80% comp 50 chances 9 assists 1528 minutes
Samir 86% comp 45 chances 1 assist 1907 minutes
Arsh 71% comp 35 chances 11 assists 1914 minutes
Jack 86% comp 45 chances 2 assists 2006 minutes
Theo 80% comp 12 chances 6 assists 1156 minutes
2009/10
Cesc 78% comp 82 chances 13 assists 2193 minutes
Samir 84% comp 48 chances 4 assist 1887 minutes
Arsh 72% comp 38 chances 1 assist 2265 minutes
Theo 77% comp 21 chances 2 assists 1130 minutes
What I notice there is Cesc, in 70% of his 2009/10 game time he has created 60% of the chances he did last season but his pass completion has gone up. It also makes you wonder why Arsh has come in for so much criticism this year, if anything his stats are better (apart from pass success). The stand out stats are Samir Nasri.
The Chances created vs Assists intrigues me, does it show that the player with the higher assists per chance is picking better options or is trying to create more killer chances and therefore is a greater risk of interception and therefore the chance created count is low? Makes you wonder why Theo gets criticised for poor decision making too, this year he seems to have done much better in picking the right options.
Afternoon all- some interesting discussion on here today. I happen to think Craig Bellamy a very interesting footballer- like Andrei Arshavin the man has hidden depths which are perhaps surprising when you think about his combustibility and propensity to upset not only the ref and the opposition but also his own team-mates and fans too. He’s definitely no saint but he’s got a big heart I guess.
As many people have commented- confidence is all important but I hate to think of the Grove crowd as anyway similar to the Wembley crowd. And yet… The two stadiums have a very similar feel, they don’t lend themselves to a flag waving, thronging and passionate assembly of fans. It’s easier to get in quickly than get out so fans turn up right before kick off and feel the need to leave early to get drinks at halftime and catch the tube home. Add to these factors the feeling of moans and groans that GiE so ably described and I fear that the only way to remedy the situation is to get standing areas in with cheaper tickets to get a few more “hardcore” supporters in.
Mind you- as I’ve discovered on twitter, facebook and numerous blogsites- it’s many of the old “hardcore” that are the greatest moaners and that is worrying. Thanks be to Rasp and Peaches for having created this intelligent nook for us!
Did Geoff Strong or Mike circulate a spreadsheet to some of you a little while ago? Otherwise it was probably GN5 and his fantasticstats!
Craig Bellamy is a cock
Cracking cracking post GiE, forgive me if I mention that in the flesh you really don’t look the literary type, not that I do either I guess.
Wondermans riposte to whoever it was. Top quality. Love the bit about the ‘tribunal’.
Alf, many thanks for your contribution. Was there anything else you wanted to add.
It needn’t be as erudite and stimulating as your first comment if yer struggling to come up with something
your article still does not explain the following:
– why does Denilson get brushed off the ball like he was malnourished and his criminal lack of pace
– why is Diaby lazy, takes the sting out of our counterattacks, spends more time out injured and playing and when he does actually play he has one good game in five
neither of them is good enough and both should be gone on May 22nd at around 6 PM!
as for Arshavin, well, maybe the other players are just not on the same wavelength or even in the same bracket qualitywise? just a thought…
GIE,
Thank you but I wish you had not told me about the Corporate info on the AFC site. Obvious I suppose but I never look on there much.
I have down loaded the PDF file and have spent an hour or so fascinated by it.
Further to my earlier comment, the updated group (Holding and subsidiary companies) info is as follows;
Arsenal (AFC Holdings) Limited
[Who have 100% ownership of the following]
Arsenal Football Club plc*
Arsenal (Emirates Stadium) Limited*
Arsenal Overseas Limited* Inc in Jersey
Arsenal Securities plc*
Arsenal Stadium Management Company Limited*
ATL (Holdings) Limited Great Britain
Ashburton Trading Limited*
HHL Holding Company Limited
Highbury Holdings Limited*
Ashburton Properties (Northern Triangle) Limited*
Non accountants are right …. we are sad sods being fascinated by this stuff!! 🙂
Sharkey 😀
We’ve got to tone down this Accountants Anonymous stuff chaps 😉
Sharkey, 🙂
Nice and sarky, Sharkey. 🙂
Still no 20 + 6, and now Evonne has disappeared! Spooky!
You are right Carlito, I apologise, and will try to keep my trap shut! 😦
No one will ever offer Evonne a spare again if 20+6 doesn’t turn up soon.
Just messing about RA- wanted to get the AA thing out there! I have to say that the accounts only interest me when they have a direct influence on my experience- ie- can we afford such and such a player, or why are season tickets going up or are we safe from the fate of Leeds Utd? Otherwise, I’m more interested in nearly every other detail of our club including whether Craig Eastmond has worked out that Summer follows Spring 😉
Sharkey- I reckon 26M’s Mrs found the blog and read all the innuendo of the past few days and he’s in the doghouse with no internet connection! 😀
we have got more fit accountants on here than goalkeepers.
i appreciate the post and the work put into it,but i still maintain stats can be misleading,especially when one compares passing (short,long,sideways,backwards etc)
Kelsey, you are right. Sometimes the gut feeling is more important, after all there were plenty of top managers who made do without video replays and opta stats 20-30 years ago. Most gooners have their gut telling them that Denilson’s passing is ineffective and that the team lack Thrust (tm Mickydidit)and that cannot be shown by a figure alone
I was just browsing a transfer history page and one of only 3 signings made in 2009/2010 jumped off the page at me. Does anyone recall Samuel Galindo? What’s the deal there- anyone in the know?
I agree Kelsey, stats can be made to prove anything, thats why I try to weave them around things I see to try and use them as explanation or reason.
As for “fit accountants” we have clearly not met. 😀
I’m with you Kelsey, but they are really well collected and disseminated in a thought provoking way! 🙂
Carlito ……. Eastmond!! 🙂
Can I also say, to reassure you, and this is the last, I promise, the 5 year summary of key financial statements shown in the accounts indicate a tremendous improvement in Arsenal’s financial position, and the future looks very positive, vis a vis funds for player acquisitions, if the trend continues. 🙂
GIE,
I meant literally fit as opposed to saying he’s fit 🙂
Carlito,
Sam Galindo is playing in Spain for Salamanca and has had an up and down season, allegedly.
Despite that, he played a full (though friendly) international for Bolivia earlier this year.
He should be well on the way to obtaining a Spanish passport and return to us, maybe this summer. And Botelho too! 🙂
I would really be interested in seeing the players wages listed,thogh i know that is not possible,but I believe almunia is on 50K a week as an example, and then we have 18 players out on loan where we pay a proportion of their wages , and trimming in that direction and then investing those few extra million rather than losing a player that is really wanted, would make sense to me.
Kelsey, I think GiE got your meaning right- you should see the amount the man smokes!
Kelsey,
GIE is being modest. Evonne said he had a wonderful physiqie and looked fit.
I would watch it if I was you GIE, the beautiful Evonne has spoken! 🙂
Botelho- eegads! Had forgotten the name! If Galindo’s going down the Spanish passport route it’ll take another 2 years 😦
Kelsey- I think there will have to be a clear out at the lower levels for sure as the sheer number of players out on loan are probably aware. They can’t all break into the first team and they are not cheap
i used to look fit, now i rattle 😉
Glorious evening all,
Here is my first ever stat. We really don’t concede that many do we. You know, given all the moaning about our need for a new keeper and CB. Imagine if WS played every game behing a stable defence of two out of JD, TV and Kos.
Too true, Carlito.
On top of that we have Myachi (tho’ Juventus are after him), Wellington and Coquelin (who I really rated in the youth teams) apart from all our other UK based loanees.
Carlito,
that was my point.I reckon 2 or the maximum of three will come through. By the way that bolivan kid is 6’3″ for a midfielder, and only 18.
Micky- that was, statistically speaking, not really a stat! 😉
Kelsey- I remember the look of him- rangy like Vieira and allegedly a midfield general too…
How many midfielders can we accomodate ?
I think AW is a genius with buying attack minded players, and to be fair that is his system, but how many top top class central defenders has he bought and then of course his achilles heel…keepers.
Offski- to enjoy the last bit of the sunshine that I’ve been enviously looking at out of the window…
Last thing! Apparently JD will be fit for Liverpool! Sunshine yipee 😀
Too much work today, so just popping in.
Great piece GiE – what an addition you have been to the AA community.
Funny comments from the rest of you – clearly having fun today – who says accountants are boring??
Carlito,
Are you referring to Botelho, our 20 year old very pacy, 6′ left back/left winger/midfielder or Galindo?
Red Arse, Sarky and Blue Eyes – I am around, I am reading, just nothing to add, other than it is the bestest blog in the world.
26may is fine, just sulking a bit after the dismal game; he’ll get over it and be back with vengence.
GIE – bloody hell, you want to be an accountant with all the numbers you spitting out! Great article, thank you
Carlito,
I know you have Offskied, but THAT was the nearest I will ever get to a stat!
Excellent, GIE.
The doom-mongers will never quite understand how their negativity permeates all it touches both inside the stadium and outside on the web.
Kelsey re centre backs:
Sol, Kolo, Gallas, Verm, JD and Koz.
If I was to pick a weakness in his recent buying it would be the failure to replace Gilberto. But maybe like Thierry, Dennis and Patrick he was irreplaceable.
there is no such thing as ‘doom mongers’, there are just some that will repeat that a certain Frenchman knows, despite all the signs telling them otherwise…
‘guess some just prefer to put up with lack of effort, poor team selections, tactical ineptitude and ridiculously bad matchday management…
Louis van Gaal would win at least one trophy with the same team this season!
mind you, there would be a massive clearout first and foremost…
how can you blame the fans?
Evening Chaps/esses
Fine post GIE, and excellent stats.
Back from a fine trip to UK and return to find AA and the interweb abounding with negativity.
Suga is a case in point. Van Gaal would win trophies this season? What evidence supports such a wild claim? That he has been sacked by Barca, Ajax and Bayern and is good enough to be sacked by Bayern before season’s end! I am not doubting LvG’s talents, what I question is how he would have fared at AFC.
Furthermore, if AW were available he could walk into almost any club in World Football. But some like SUGA find it easier to insult him. As to “how can we blame the fans”, I would question whether they are “fans.” A fan makes constructive criticism.
clowns? oh, the irony…
you may want to check the list of LvG’s honours as well as reasons why Bayern fared a bit worse this season than last (also under LvG, mind you)…
you want to know why I think van Gaal pisses all over Wenger? here’s a quote for ya:
give me that over the same tactics whether you play Barca or Orient and whether you have the personnel to play 4-3-3 or not…
Wenger is a poor tactician and if you need the evidence, look no further than our last game…
Suga3 – it is an opinion more than that it was a question. Have the fans in negativity stifled the flair of the team.
Was Denilson detiorating before the groans or did the groans start/increase the detioration? Chicken/egg scenario.
You have clearly tired of AKB’s as much as I have tired of fans that insist other managers would have done more with the current team and then in the next breath demand a clearing of the same team. And also tiring of the constant repitition that we are declining despite progressing further in every tournament than 2009/10 except CL where we effectively fell at the same hurdle (Barca).
Later in the comments you will see that I give AA23 stats for this season and last, almost exactly the same yet he has been on the end of terrible abuse this season. Why?
I an encouraging fans of our club to support and change the record for the last 8 home games.if the Emirates crowd continue to behave as they did against Blackburn teams like ManU will smell blood and feast on the stricken victims. That might happen anyway but I’d far rather the crowd was so vociferous in support of the team that one less excuse can be made.
If you prefer to boo and justify booing I hope I never have to sit next to you.
and by the way: LvG almost won CL with Bayern last season, not to mention the domestic double, now he is getting sacked by Bayern, what does that tell you about the club’s ambition?
I rest my case…
GIE,
anyone abusing AA needs to get his head checked: poor season, played out of position, yet he got how many goals and assists?
I wish every player at Arse was that ‘shit’…
also, AA does not seem to be too bothered by the ‘terrible abuse’, does he?
as for the booing bit, you may want to have a look at my most recent blog post, here’s a little quote:
Suga3- I took a look at your blog and it is well written and well argued but I do not share the conclusions you reach. Nonetheless it is good to have different opinions and there are points you make that I do agree with- your above comments about AA are a case in point.
Regarding Louis Van Gall- I lived in Barcelona for most of his tenure there and hed was famous amongst the Catalan support for his rigidity and inability to change a losing system. More pertinently to the question of whether he’d do well at Arsenal- his (at the time) Mourinho-like tactics and lack of fluidity and fluency cost him his relationship with fans used to swift attacks and beautiful possession football. I beleive he’d soon lose our fans for the same reasons- used as we are now to some fabulous stuff.
Finally, you say in LvG’s praises that he “almost won CL with Bayern last season”- well that almost word characterises why people are angry with Wenger doesn’t it? We almost won the CC, we almost beat Barca (just a red card to blame) and we we have a good chance to win the PL and if we don’t it’ll be another almost.
RA- definitely Galindo, I think!
Micky- 🙂 Although I do remember a pearl about RvP scoring every 4 shots on target or wasn’t that you? 😉
Carlito,
thanks for looking, glad you can appreciate good arguments, my aim is to show that the ‘dissidents’ are not as thick as some would like to make out 😉
I am old school and I reckon this team would do fine with one season under LvG: shipping out the dross, reading the riot act (do you have the balls like me?) to these with a bit of hope and a bit of a general shakeup tactics wise…
as for the ‘almost’ bit, like I said, he won a domestic double that season, no?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/9450756.stm?
Alright Suga, Carlito
In peace I have to say that yeah Suga you;ve always written well, not that I’ve had alook lately, but all your fgood work goes out of the window in my eyes with a singe line like this:
“you want to know why I think van Gaal pisses all over Wenger?”
Even if it could be scientifically proven that LvG was 100 times the manager that Arsene was, then would still be a pretty moronic/juvenile/stoopid way to describe the gulf between them.
Do you think phrases like that encourage adult debate..?? Or do they encourage a swift descent into name calling and a game of ‘my dads bigger than yours’..??
haha SUGA found his way on here?
Hello everyone. 😀
if I had my way, the following would happen in the summer:
OUT: Almunia (released), D******n, Diaby, Rosicky, Bendtner, Clichy
IN: Kompany (said to be available), Baines, Rodwell, Hazard, Benzema + promote Frimpong, Lansbury & JET
which would see the following squad:
GK: Szczesny, Fabianski, Mannone
RB: Sagna, Eboue
CB pairings: Kompany + TV, Djourou + Koz
LB: Baines, Gibbs
DM: Song, Rodwell, Frimpong
AM: Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey, Hazard, AA, Lansbury, Theo
Strikers: RvP, Chamakh, Vela, Benzema, JET
say what you want, in my book this team is effin’ scary 👿
Sharkey,
well, this is me, warts’n’all, you know?
I just believe LvG is twice the manager Wenger is, simple as that, don’t let one sentence obstruct your vision of the valid point I am making 😉
I mean, I would love to see Wenger being able to refocus, but to be honest, given the evidence of the last couple of seasons I am not holding my breath…
I am giving AW the leeway with regards to not having wonga to spend, but the fact is that we have more than enough for the last two seasons, and the team is not only neglected, but also poor players are given the new contracts, whilst we allow Nasris and Arshavins to run down theirs – lunacy or what?
and don’t get me started on signing kids like fucking was to go out of fashion 😆
I know I defend Bendtner a lot and you may think that I am biased but I think he deserves another season.
He has rarely played as a striker this season, hardly has 10-15 starts and when he has, it’s almost always been with the B team and hence doesn’t get enough service. Even then he has 9 goals and 8 assists in what is a poor injury ravaged season by his standards. Forgive me, but going by that alone, he’s done better than Chamakh.
He doesn’t do himself any favors with that mouth of his but for a third choice striker, we can do a lot lot worse.
I don’t understand the hatred toward him really lately. He hasn’t really been given a chance this season to prove himself in a run of games.
I’m not saying he’s perfect, the finished article or even whether he’ll become world class.
If Arshavin’s stats make him indispensable, atleast Bendtner’s make him somewhat important?
For a young striker, his stats over the past few years are nothing short of impressive as far as I’m concerned. He has a knack for scoring crucial goals and most importantly he has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. The composure in front of goal will come with time imo.
It wouldn’t be the greatest loss were he to leave, I admit, but I do think we would do well to give him one more season. I’d hate to see him go on and becoming a successful player.
In short, I feel that equating him to Diaby and Denilson this season is a tad unfair.
Rohan,
I just don’t like his attitude, the big time Charlie Aryan Pele nonsense – I would like to make an example of him, something we have failed to do when Ade started stinking out the place, simple as that…
“make an example” ?
That’s pretty dramatic. This is a football club, not some sort of Roman Empire microcosm where you throw them to the lions.
and oh, Sharkey, with regards to the point about encouraging the adult debate, it was not me who started it, I just don’t have the tools to edit certain bits out of my post on this site after I call my fellow blogger a clown 😉
Rohan,
sorry dude, but we have run out of carrots 👿
plus, I would rather sell him whilst he is still a ‘promising’ player…
Who came up with “Aryan Pele”?- Suga3 you might be on the wrong site my friend. This is a long way from the Asylum.
Whilst LvG was failing at Barcelona- Wenger did a domestic double for Arsenal. I have watched LvGs sides up close for many years and most of his teams were fractious and full of falling outs. They were also mainly boring to watch. The exceptions being Bayern last season and Ajax bloody ages ago! In my view there is no comparison- Wenger is by far the more visionary and successful coach. Definitely more the man I’d like to entrust the future of the club as it currently stands.
If the team completely bottles the run in I might start thinking about who our next manager will be but I think I and many on this site would still look at what AW did in the transfer market given that we are about to emerge from our self-imposed austerity measures.
Carlito,
I came up with that, but that’s is just in jest with him being Danish and all, nothing more 😉
LvG had his moments at Barca as well, doubles and that, plus, his Bayern side was a joy to behold…
it pains me to say, but it’s not like we play attractive footy anymore, well, at least not consistently, we are the footballing equivalent of Alfa Romeo, do I need to explain why?
Moderators will edit those things out to try and keep it civil, although I’m only surmising as to what might have happened. Therein liesthe clue though ‘eh. Someone has moderated out the word ‘clown’ as offensive and unnecessary..??
You’re bright enough to recognise and (hopefully?) follow the tone and spirit on here.
and the austerity measures were lifted at least two transfer windows ago, one could argue that signing one or two required players a year prior to that would not have broken our back into ‘doing a Leeds’ either…
Yeah, SUGA. Shape up or ship out. 😀
This place isn’t for the intellectual lowbrow like you and me. 😀
Sharkey,
I will give you a clue: someone edited his own post, you scroill up and connect the dots 😉
When’s the last time Bendtner has said anything of him being the best player in the world anyway?
D******n. ???
I saw that on the other site today, didn’t think it was big or clever over there either, and its deffo out of place over here. No matter our opinions on players we just don’t do that sort of piss take on this site.
Jeez, I used to be called blog police over at LG, now look at me. Thats my last act of ‘discipline’. Promise 😉
Sharkey,
I consider it to be more offensive than any f-word, children may be reading, you know 😆
Even then, I felt he was misinterpreted a tad. All he said was that he wanted to and believed that he could become the world’s best player in a few years.
Yeah, it’s a tad pretentious, but it’s not all that is it.
He’s probably as frustrated as anyone with how his season has gone. Don’t think he can be classified as particularly lazy as well.
Suga. You make your points, I just totally disagree with your conclusions.
As to why I edited my comment – it was because I believe your comment represents all I hate about the current winning is everything mentality. However, I have no right to insult you and was able to amend my comment accordingly. Abuse of a fellow gooner is unacceptable and I apologise for my initial comment.
BR,
fair play 😉
and don’t get me wrong, I am not the ‘winning is everything’ kind of person, but I believe that negligence is unacceptable and that is what Wenger is guilty of…
I don’t think it’s our God’s given right to win stuff, but I believe that we are entitled to see ‘blood sweat and tears’ – does that make sense?
my ‘Out’ list is where it hurts me, as these imposters should not be anywhere near the club, but have been given new fat contracts – worse than negligence in my book…
and yep, my ‘oh, the irony’ bit was also a tad unnecessary, apologies 😉
GIE, cracking article, but you probably knew I’d like it, it so amazing that so many misread and interpret things so differently……
I have hardly had a chance to be on here this week, hope next week calms down.
My biggest concern is the fracture in our support its getting too much and could really become a problem that really does damage to our team, the fans have to realise that they do affect the team, performance.
Right now we all need to put aside our differnces and get right this team for 8 games, win them all and we might just win the title…..
And if one more person says the team has to play well before they sing, i might just go and sign my gun out from the armoury……
Harry,
we have been there and done that before, it’s just one groundhog season too far, hence the discontent…
don’t get me wrong, whenever I go to the game, I usually lose my voice, but now I am not intending to attend unless something changes…
Harry !!
I spend a while telling an old pal (thats you Suga!) what a nice place this is, then you come on threatening to shoot people.
I despair. Wheres Peaches when you need her..??
C’mon Suga, even the gloomiest of fans must have seen some improvement this season.
You’ve even put Fabianski in your dream team above. Surely that ellls tyou that Arsene knoes simething that you don’t. You’ve bee pretty scathing about him in the past, from your position on the inside track, being a Pole n’all
We must get you a seat beside Evonne our resident Polish blonde bombshell for the next game you attend.
My typinsons …lol. Now thats groundhog day !
Sharkey,
I am of the opinion that our first XI as it is must be considered the best in the league…
that, however is just on paper, as these players are:
– never fit at the same time
– not drilled as a unit
– lacking a leader figure
then you scratch the surface and you get these players that are not even midtable standard (you know who I’m talking about, scroll up if you don’t)…
without a shadow of doubt, you will say ‘oh, but they are 117th choice, you know’ – wrong!
it’s like leading 6:0 and conceding a stupid goal in the last minute, it may not be important as far as the points tally is concerned, but you know how fine the margins may be – that’s unprofessional, imagine losing the title having the same goal difference as, let’s say ManYoo but poor head to head record (like a draw and a loss)?
as for Fabianski, well, I have always said he was no.2 and that’s his lot – you may also recall that I have been raving about Szczesny for the past two seasons 😉
Seems like LvG is flavour of the month, all I can say is at least we no longer have to listen anymore to how Roy Hodgson would save us if he were given the chance.
Good work above GIE.
Lol, sorry Sharkey…..
Suga, I have read all of your comments with interest, I understand alot of what your saying (not sure about LVG), and yes groundhog day does seem to be getting tedious, when I think most would agree what we have been missing for last couple of years and we have been so close too often in someways, it hurts.
My beef is probably not with you pal, as you say you lose your voice, fair dinkums…..
I will keep short a story from a season or so ago, I had a disagreement with an arsenal fan at a home match (it was about our third 0-0 in a row at home) he was having a right moan, slating just about every player, when the subs come out he started on them and called them every name under the sun. It was pathetic, some bloke commented something and he tried to get me to agree with him, I told him he was talking crap and that we should support the team whilst in the ground.
He said why should he applaud, clap and cheer, when we were playing badly, he used the analogy of a west end show, in that if he thought that was poor he wouldnt applaud…Thats where I shot him (metaphorically sharkey) down, you cannot comapre the two, yes we goto the emirates to be entertained, but it is labour of love, its our team we support them come rain or shine and sometimes we need to get behind them to lift them that extra bit, sometimes we are lucky and they lift us, if when you leave you wanted to berate them, or boo at the final whistle then thats your right, but not during the game…He sat down and shut up, with everyone cheering me!! Thats the ones I want to shoot…!
It hurts all of us the same, we all see thinsg differently, lets play this season out and then if people want to make a stand then thats their choice……
“no longer have to listen anymore to how Roy Hodgson would save us if he were given the chance.”
True London. The proof is always in the pudding ‘eh, only thing is that sometimes that dark brown pudding ain’t made of chocolate is it.
Nite all
Szczesney a man not known for his lack of self belief is a future legend and NikB who has better goals per game stats than Henry did at the same age is wrong to rate himself…….ho hum.
Frimpong and JET don’t lack in that department either.
@Harry I knew it would appeal to you, as you say it’s a shame it can be misinterpreted.
@suga I mentioned earlier that Arsh has not been adversely affected by the crowd, no surprise he is 29 has been criticised as lazy his whole career but manages to keep playing for his country and a top side. Denilson at 22/23 and NikB at a similar age have been subject to very negative crowd reaction for players so young. I remember a time when young players were given encouragement at the Arsenal.
Harry,
I fully agree that if someone is comparing the football game to a West End show, should not come anywhere near the stadium ever again…
but, say what you wish, but I believe that these players owe us the effort, the fans are not stupid, they will not cheer if they don’t see the players working their nuts off and will appreciateold fashioned ‘blood, sweat and tears’ – win, lose or draw!
plus, it’s not exactly the easiest thing in the world to get the crowd at the Ems going, even if the fans have the best intentions, I wrote a piece about it some time ago, check this out:
GIE,
the thing is that we really don’t have time for them…
and no offence, but the thing about Bendtner having a better goal to game ration than Henry at the same age is wrong on so many levels it’s untrue – I have got a diploma in PR, you know 😉
Thats where I shot him (metaphorically sharkey)
Yeah right, and your names not Dirty Harry either. Nice poncho you had on on Sat gone !!
Deffo nite
Suga, agreed our first xi is the best
Sczezesy
Sags
Vermaelen
Djourou
Clichy
Song
Fabregas
wilshere
Nasri
Walcott
Van persie
Next up:
arshavin
Chamakh
Koscienly
Gibbs
Fabianski
Eboue
Bendtner
Not bad bench that? Mid table?
Then
Denilson
Diaby
Rosicky
Frimpong
squillaci
Miquel
and some very good youth……
But I agree the best are hardly ever fit together and we lack a real leader who can fight when the chips are own…..
nite Sharkey, nice chatting to you 😉
Harry,
my ‘Out’ list is midtable, bar maybe Bendtner, whom I don’t want to see here next season either, I think his attitude stinks – effin’ daddy’s boy if you get my drift…
————–Szczesny—————-
–Sagna–Kompany—Vermaelen–Baines–
—————Rodwell—————-
——-Wilshere———-Nasri——–
–Theo———–RvP———-Hazard–
Subs: Fabianski, Djourou, Koz, Song, Ramsey, AA, Benzema
now that’s a matchday sheet!
Suga:Great article,heres one I wrote a while ago, if you look on there you’ll find loads….with my opinion about what support is, Dont get me wrong I agree with a lot of what you say….
http://www.gunners4life.com/index.asp?article=586
OK pals, my sulk is over.
Well, truth be told, only partly a sulk as my work has gone bananas over the last few days. But the sulky bit wasn’t so much caused by the very disappointing result on Saturday, it was the players’ complete lack of determination to get the result.
I can understand why Wenger cops a load of shit in situations like this, but to be honest, it’s the players who should get most of the blame for pissing away our best chance of the title in the lamest fashion. They’ve now drawn consecutive league games against Sunderland, West Brom and Blackburn. And in those three precious games, they’ve shown precious little drive and desire, despite the chance of lifting the title. I find that galling.
Yes, we could blame the manager. But I maintain that this squad is still better than United’s and whatever the tactics (I agree that Wenger is not a great tactician), the players we have are more than capable of mopping up the nine points from the last three games. We should have won those games but the players have let down both Wenger and us.
Where United are greater than the sum of their parts, the sad truth of the last few Arsenal games is that we have been less than the sum of our parts. And to me, the only answer for that lies inside the skulls of the players.
A point of info re Louis van Gaal: he’s not being sacked at Bayern because the club is so ambitious it sacks midas-touch managers; he’s losing his job because Bayern are 14 points off the top and seven points off the CL spots. In short, they’re having a crap season and, unlike us, have been absolutely nowhere in the title running.
Anyway, am glad to be back, even if I am feeling pretty despondent about the footy. It was great to meet Evonne, a classy woman, and nice to grab a drink with the crowd at the Tavern beforehand. I won’t be at the Liverpool game (another work thing) so my next match is United…. Should be interesting!
Hope to be able to grab a few mins tomorrow to check in here.
Nice team suga, I like kompany, we should have got him before city had the money…..
Rodwell – defo
Baines – not sure –
Hazard – defo
Benzema – defo but would he be happy on bench?
Christ lol, I knew something was missing from my lists – Ramsey, one of my favorites…..sorry aaron..
Harry,
really good piece, I can tell it’s written from the heart, you will not find me disagreeing with you here – I believe we have the best away fans in the country, outsinging places like Celtic Park, Magpies’ place et al is no mean feat…
but, like I said, it’s a two way street – you would think those who travelled to Newcastle or WBA most recently deserved better, wouldn’t you?
given RvP’s fitness record, and need to be able to rotate ‘like for like’ quality wise, Benzema would get more than enough games to keep him sweet 😉
I heard a rumour that Kompany may be available for as little as £15M – superb player, but probably not much of a bling piece for the Arabs…
and Baines is really a tidy LB, plus, he can score from dead ball situations, something we haven’t done for how long?
I love Gael, but IMO Baines is better…
Yes, I do agree at times we have been let down and we do deserve more as 26m pointed out above…
I would love a couple of hours with big ivan about how our stadium is set out, we need to up the atmosphere to help, but agreed the team at times needs a kick up the backside as well….
I feel we do feel the same on many things, but just maybe from a different slant?
26may,
if the squad is better than any other, it must be the manager, what else, the weather?
Harry,
I am just a bit of a ruthless cynic and I believe in tough love, that’s all 😉
mind you, I will praise the product of such an upbringing to high heavens afterwards!
I dont doubt Baines might be better than gael, agreed about the dead ball situ, I hate it when we win free kicks, its always wasted…
I am trying to think of a better LB to be honest…….
I just think we should just raid Everton before Sp*ds and the others do!
ruthless, I know 👿
Why would City sell Kompany, their best centre back? And to us? Seems unlikley. And with Vermaelen, Djourou, Koscielny, Bartley and Miquel, is it really a priority area?
The problems look to be at the other end of the pitch: some will say it’s sacrilege, but I wonder about van Persie, perhaps we need to replace him with someone who can bear the responsibility of being the sole striker with more consistency and who is available to play more often.
Whether or not that’s part of the answer, we need to find more attacking dynamism.
Lol, suga, great speaking with you….
You’ll have to come to the tavern for the next aa meet up before the Pool match?
Off to bed now mate, nite all…..
RvP must be kept, he just needs to have a Benzema to rotate in order to manage his fitness appropriately…
speaking of which, the fitness staff needs sacking as well…
like I said, Kompany does not represent that much of a ‘bling’ factor and these Arabs are lunatics, that’s where I think it makes sense…
no offence, but Miguel and Bartley? nowhere near ready, enough of the gambles…
two pairings: Kompany + TV and Djourou + Koscielny and we are laughing!
Harry, I may well do 😉
take care, nite!
@Suga 11.09: I can only refer you back to my earlier post: “Where United are greater than the sum of their parts, the sad truth of the last few Arsenal games is that we have been less than the sum of our parts. And to me, the only answer for that lies inside the skulls of the players.”
I know the anti Wneger brigade want to put all the blame for our failings on him, but he doesn’t go out onto the pitch and he can’t be blamed for everything. The players are grown-ups, and as well as being very talented are meant to have a competitive spirit. My point is they need to look at themselves and ask some hard questions about how much they really want success. Because to me, they have been seriously lacking in the psychological department in this run-in.
26may,
once again, the buck has to stop with the manager, no two ways about it – I am really saying this through the gritted teeth, but Alchy pisses pure ASDA scotch all over AW as far as the tactics, team selections, motivation, substitutions and psychology is concerned…
this last statement is not meant to create any aggro, it’s a fact, results achieved with an ‘inferior’ team speak for themselves…
Our Glorious Leader is guilty of not addressing the problems that are there in the background for ages: complacency, unmerited feeling of superiority, lack of consistency and choking under the slightest bit of pressure like a clockwork…
if you are a manager and your players are lacking something in their heads, you hire a shrink and move them on if it does not work…
if you ever worked under a spineless manager, you will know what I am talking about…
my point is that if it’s just the players and the manager can’t do much about it, then we may as well save ourselves a coolfew million per season – I can sit there and do bugger all for £500K 😉
another point: what exactly was the difference between Inter under Mourinho (all conquering) and Benitoss (laughing stock, getting whupped by Sp*ds)?
you’ve guessed it…
So Suga, you don’t criticise the players? What goes on in their heads is all down to the manager? Just doesn’t add up to me.
I look at the 2004 squad and I remember Wenger treating them in exactly the same way, and look what they achieved.
Many disagree with me on this, but I say 2005-2010 was a period of success under Wenger because no other manager could have achieved sustained top level football with no money. This season is different, the money situation is sorted, and frankly we should have walked the title.
But you’re right, the players have choked. And yes, Wenger has to shoulder some of the blame. But not all of it, the players have failed us and Wenger.
Mourinho, great tactical manager, is amazing at getting the best out of a group of players, but not a builder of squads. Plus he’s a twat.
Spurs whupped Inter? I thought they won one game each.
But Benitez is shit, agreed.
26may,
I am of the opinion that the very thought of comparing today’s team to the one of 2004 is nothing short of blasphemy – Arsenal of back then would blast the ‘best squad ever’ into the next millenium – I could go on and on about the differences, but that would just piss me off, so let’s just leave it at that 😉
Henrys, Vieiras and Bobbies at the age they were at in 2004 would piss the league this season, no one would touch them, simple as – as for the same treatment, maybe that’s the fundamental error? what I mean is that on one hand you have a bunch of World Champions and other proven winners who have been filled in on what it means to put the red and white kit and on the other hand you have a bunch of kids who are lacking guidance and have got too much, too easily and too early?
see where I’m going with this?
back to the real world: like I said, it’s the manager’s job to use the right combination of carrot and stick to get the team to achieve goals – if that means feeding D******n to the lions after 30 minutes of shit play, so be it…
at least it will get the crowd going, a win-win situation if you ask me!
Suga no offence but Baines and Rodwell are hardly proven and you e already said we can’t give others time.
Personally I thought Baines looked like a fish out of water in the England v Ghana game so I hope there’s zero truth in the rumour that we are interested.
You can call Bendtners stats compared to Henry wrong on so many levels but they’re accurate. But obviously you knew Thierry was going to be great when Wenger signed him.
At 22 when we signed him he had scored 31 goals in 161 appearances. 1 goal every 5.1 games.
NikB at 23 (just) has scored 58 from 195 appearances (13 goals and 48 appearances at Brum included). 1 goal every 3.3 games.
By my maths that’s better on every level. But you’re right at the age we signed a striker with worse stats we should dispense with one who has better stats……like I said ho hum.
GIE,
seriously, you don’t want me to dig up the detailed stats, like starts, subs, minutes played, as well as the context of the degree of utilisation of each of them, to blow this ridiculous argument out of the water…
it would take me ages to do this and I have better stuff to do 😉
lies, damn lies, statistics – ever heard this one?
Baines would be an improvement over Clichy and Rodwell would be an improvement over D******n, no?
there is also the small matter of Henry never having played for a lower division club…
give it a rest mate, there is no contest…
Looking back at that great Invincibles squad bears out my point:
Henry – Signed after failing in Italian football, confidence shot, but with Wenger’s faith was transformed into an astonishing player.
Vieira and Kanu – Signed after not making a mark in Italian football, flourished under Wenger.
Ljungberg, Toure, Lauren, Reyes, Gilberto and Edu – Raw talents signed from relative anonymity.
Cole – A youngster brought through from the reserves.
Wenger inherited Bergy and Parlour, and signed Pires, Campbell and Lehmann as established internationals, so there are differences. But it’s easy to forget how similar Wenger’s strategy was in building the Invincibles squad to the way he has built the current squad, the main difference being that he’s recruited this lot younger because that was the way to do it cheaper.
The Invincibles didn’t come from nowhere, Wenger recruited them and built them, based on the same philosophy and trust he’s shown the current bunch. The difference is the outcome: that lot grew and grew, this lot is on the verge of throwing everything away. And if they do throw it away, that will more than anything be their fault, because they certainly have what it takes technically. They just appear to be lacking upstairs.
just to prove a point, let me remind you of the statistics that would have you believe that D******n was amongst the best midfielders in the league…
and you know how much of a nonsense that is, don’t you?
26may,
like I said, there was a bunch of players who knew what it meant to bleed red & white, and passed this information onto the newcomers, so the difference is the pride, nothing else…
the players of today witnessed how the club treated stalwarts like Gilberto (who is still picked for Brazil ahead of ‘one-who-shall-not-be-named’) – Giggs and Scholes are not too old in Alchy’s eyes and he keeps on winning stuff, he must be doing something right, eh?
Wenger is surrounded by yes men and his current team is a bunch of choir boys, it’s no coincidence that our best players are the ones with a bit of a nasty edge to them, is it?
the manager is letting the players down, so they respond accordingly – it’s like pouring ordinary unleaded fuel into the jet engine, you know you’re gonna crash, don’t you?
anyways, I will leave you with that though, nice debate 😉
nite!
Can’t say I agree with you Suga, but good to chat.
*thought
I agree Suga
morning 😉
there is one more thing regarding van Gaal: someone pointed out that Bayern are currently third, 14 points off the top and out of the CL spots, right?
well, the only reason why we are in it for a few seasons running are the coefficients allowing 4 teams from the Prem into the competition compared to Bundesliga’s two (I think)…
just to put stuff into perspective: last season we also finished third, 11 points off the top, the season before that it was fourth, 18 points off the top – there is just just one person we need to thank for even finishing that high in 08/09 season and it’s not Wenger, just to give you a clue, I will tell you that he is 5’4″ 😆
and do I need to remind you the ‘third place trophy’ quote?
and these are the two season when we were in position to spend some damn money!
and another interesting fact for the stat lovers is that never in the history of Arsenal Football Club was a manager allowed to continue his tenure without winning a trophy for more than four years…
and yes, I do appreciate that we might not be in position to spend the money to address the problems appropriately until the last two seasons, but we are supposed to move forward, no?
I’d be only to pleased for you to dig out minutes played Suga and compare the utilisation of Bendtner and Henry. You clearly believe the French football is as good as the Prem? Where the majority of Henrys games were (113 of 161). Bendtner played 44 games at Brum.
Nowhere did I say Denilson was a great midfielder I said he could be.
You go on to say Wenger has surrounded himself with choir boys but our best players have nastiness …… who signed them then? The transfer fairy?
Until you can carry a semblance of consistent argument and stop putting words where there arent any there really is no point in continuing discussion with you.
Hip hip hooray!! 26may is back, you can all stop teasing me!
Couldn’t have put it better GIE. Thanks mate means I can watch the F1 practice, expect you are diving for the train to work, ain’t I the lucky one. 🙂
Morning GiE/Suga/Anyone,
I think Peaches/Rasp may stick up a post of mine this morning, so I apologise in advance for not being around. I am not avoiding the flack, just clearing off now. Back early afternoon.
Enjoyed your chat last night.
Bye.
Morning micky – thanks for the post, it will indeed be going up this morning. See you later
GIE,
I believe now you are arguing just for the sake of it, no offence…
whilst I don’t necessarily believe that Ligue 1 is as good as the Prem right now, are you sure you want to argue that it was also the case back in 1999 and earlier?
Until you can carry a semblance of consistent argument and stop putting words where there arent any there really is no point in continuing discussion with you.
really? you may want to go back and read what I wrote about stats and D******n – I did not suggest you said that, did I?
what I said was that there were stats available, which would make you believe that he’s a very good player, even one of the best, does the difference compute?
or will you continue twisting my words to suit your argument?
transfer dealings is another subject you don’t want to discuss, trust me – just to give you a bit of a teaser, let me tell you that Jack is a product of the academy and not promoting him would be stupid, AA was pretty much forced upon AW and I could just go on…
morning peaches 😉
forgot to put your bit in quotes, GIE, sorry…
Evonne nothing to say that’s not you posting as 26 to cover yourself 🙂
Good to have you back 26
And Mickey I am looking forward to it.
good man, Micky, will happily read your post 😉
mine should also be up anytime soon…
Morning GIE – gosh, I am glad 26may is back to fight off Suga, if nothing else!
Jack produced from an academy that who built, has been at the club as long as who, has been brought up the way who wants to play?
Kettle The Black Calling Pot rearrange to a well known phrase re arguing for the sake of it.
The way you said “would make you believe” made me think you were saying I believed it. In fact Deni’s stats do not show him to be great they show him to have declined which was kind of the point of my post.
But what you do is say AA23 was forced on AW. So that’s one of the current squad he didn’t pick according to you. However he doesn’t make it in your first eleven does he? He did sign Nasri, Song, schooled Wilshere, pinched Cesc, and signed Verm, Kos, Sagna, Clichy etc etc. You pick the one instance to prove your point and disregard other evidence.
It seems by the way you write you have all the answers and a detailed knowledge of the inside transfer dealings of the club and know that the board definitely made funds available.
The figure I heard quoted was £30m, I wonder how many of the top class signings everyone thinks we need that would buy?
Evonne (or is it Iwona),
it’s not ‘fighting’, it’s called two grownups conducting reasoned debate, presenting well though out arguments and respectfully agreeing to disagree in the end, how’s that?
GIE v Suga – 1:0 🙂
GIE,
‘make you believe’ is just a figure of speech not aimed at any particular individual, just like ‘one’, if you don’t believe me (English is not my first language afterall), you may want to look it up 😉
with regards to D******n’s stats, I remember having these shoved down my throat as nauseam to prove that I know nothing about football, hell, there were ever some who said he was better than Alonso!
Cesc and Clichy had the benefit of basking in the glory of the Invincibles and got to learn the club’s ethos, besides, the former is just one in a generation kind of gem (like Wilshere) and the latter is not all that…
if that’s would you prefer to believe, love, knock yourself out 😉
I think it’s evenly matched at best…
Suga – it is Iwona, how the hell do you know???
GIE’s arguments are more scientific, backed up by stats, yours is very ‘hot’ emotional stuff, hence 2:0 to GIE 🙂
agreed on Sagna and Vermaelen tho…
you see, there are plenty of players in this price bracket about, which would improve this team no end…
IMO, just outing my ‘Out’ list posted above would!
Morning all- another beautiful sunny day- hopefully Some vitamin D will help our players to cheer up and enjoy their football again. If that happens we can try and get on a roll again…
Not really in the mood for debate so early in the morning but Suga3 I’ll say this in response to no arsenal manager holding the post for longer than 4 years without winning- no other arsenal manager has EVER been as successful as the current one so all comparisons go out of the window…
Evonne,
Sharkey ‘sold you out’, I know you’re Polish and so am I 😉
like I said, whatever, stats don’t count for anything, I believe in what I see and I could tell you that D******n, Diaby and Rosicky did not warrant getting new contracts, as they weren’t any good back then!
as for the ‘scientific’ arguments, please, anyone who brings forward the argument about the fans ‘responsible’ for the team’s decline to any degree is just clutching at straws…
and no, it’s not ’emotional’, my logic is undeniable 😉
pozdrawiam…
Kettle The Black Calling Pot rearrange to a well known phrase re arguing for the sake of it.
Spot on GiE!
Carlito,
ever heard of Herbert Chapman then?
and oh, another stat, George Graham had a better trophy yield per season on average, even if you take the three years when we had no money at all, they are more or less on par…
GIE v Suga 2:3 – sorry GIE, Suga is Polish, we have to stick together 🙂 That’s Polish fuzzy logic 🙂
Suga – I am only joking, I will never ever agree with you on Marinho being a better manager than Wenger, or with the fact that AW is to be blamed for the recent poor display of attitude. And the fact that we are even discussing why we are not winning trophies is in itself credit to Le Boss, because he elevated this Club to the very top. I also believe that we are ‘almost’ there, that his investment will pay dividends soon. If he goes, the next manager will rip the rewards and then see us back to the mid-table, ordinary team.
czesc
OK I’m off to work, would just love to stay and chat some more……
Anyway a call to arms.
8 May 2011 Britannia Stadium 3000 loyal Arsenal fans……lets have an AA Jolly Boys (and girls) outing! If you haven’t got Gold and 5+ away points you can’t book until Tuesday 12th April, but Red and Silver members get their chance a day later.
Judging by Bolton the tickets won’t sell out before it gets to red members, it’d be good to get up there and shut Delilah up, and either lift heads of a team who’s title challenge is over or cheer them on to a title with Man U being the week before.
Thought you didn’t like stats Suga?
Evonne
I think we’ve been “nearly there” for some time. I’m actually quite depressed by our situation.
Evonne,
haha 😀
I will be the first to give AW credit for taking the club forward, but he is in danger of tarnishing his legacy with his stubbornness, that’s all…
I am not saying ‘off with his ‘ead’, but I am asking for a bit of accountability – the famous ‘judge me in May’ quote comes from two seasons ago, hence I am judging him on his results, as requested…
as I said in my midnight convo with 26may, the buck stops with the manager, as it’s him making the selections, setting up tactics (or not) abd persisting with players that are an insult to the fans…
GIE,
I don’t like bare stats taken out of context, me bringing them up is just to prove that numbers alone don’t count, if you excuse the pun 😉
Suga – precisely, he is the one that 18 other managers in EPL would like to swap places with.
by the way, I have just published a rallying (in my own twisted way) post, click on my nick to have a peek 😆
Evonne,
IMO,the thing about another manager reaping the rewards and dumping us down to midtable status is a huge fallacy…
we are a huge club (yes, thanks to Wenger, but not just him), you would think any other top manager would jump at the chance of working at the third biggest club revenue wise, with a view towards improvement once the piss-poor sponsorship deals go out of the window, wouldn’t you?
You can’t reap the rewards and dump us down to mid table. Isn’t it one or the other?
Morning all.
New post……
SUGA. You say you do not have a winning is everything mentality, yet base your assessment of AW purely on his trophy winning.
Sure we are inconsistent and I join you in the frustrations this season has brought (& 2009), but I disagree that 2 defensive based players will make the difference.
To compare any team with the Invincibles is not realistic. They did something not even the great Liverpool team of the 80’s could match
As to lack of leadership: Last International break. What is common amongst Arshavin, Ramsey, Rosicky, Nasri (and TV when fit)?
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