Written by dandan
As I contemplated the comments filling the blog with demands that we buy a big centre half, my mind was transported back through the years to a time well before blogs or bloggers existed. In fact, thinking about it, many of the regulars on here hadn’t even been born.
Most of us who watched the Arsenal had never seen a computer and the ones who had, knew them as beasts that filled a large room or, insome cases, an entire government building.
Naturally therefore, all our communication and discussions on match days took place on the terraces, in trains, buses and cars en route to the stadium, or in the pub and at work for the midweek games. Opinions were fuelled by newspapers that sold millions of copies and were the voice of the people. Reporters travelled with the teams and wrote for the back pages with an authority and honesty that would be hard to credit nowadays
We stood on the lower west bank in those days before all seater stadiums, and just like our computer literate offspring today, bemoaned the absence of a commanding lump of a centre half. Then, early in 1963, and to the universal joy of the papers, he arrived in a blaze or glory. Ian Ure, the perfect answer to every Gooners dream. A 6ft plus, blond haired Scotsman. A proven international who had taken his previous team Dundee (hard as it might be to believe today), to the semi finals of the European cup, before losing to the eventual champions Milan.
For us he was a disaster. He made 202 appearances and scored 2 goals. Unfortunately own goals are not listed. His error strewn lumbering was to torment Arsenal fans for 6 years, until the ultimate error, a miss hit back pass on the ploughed field that Wembley laughing called a pitch for the 1969 league cup final allowed Swindon’s Roger Smart to score the goal that had us chasing the game to extra time and the final humiliation delivered by a third division wing wizard called Don Rodgers. We lost 3 – 1 having lost 1 – 0 the previous year to Leeds United with Ure again in the side. Don’t tell me about suffering, I saw them both!
The only justification I can find for those years of torment we endured, was the fact that we somehow sold him to Man Utd, a decision that in all probability helped end the career of their then new manager, Wilf McGuinness.
Fast forward to 1988. Another league cup final against lesser opponents that we knew we couldn’t possibly lose, and another legend of a centre half, a home grown one this time. We were 2-1 up with 7 minutes to go. Having enjoyed the majority of possession against a willing Luton town and despite having missed a penalty, we were coasting. Then Gus Ceasar made his move for eternal fame, he somehow contrived to fall over the ball while attempting a simple clearance from within the penalty area allowing an immediate scrum to form out of which the ball popped and rolled over the goal line.
Arsenal were nowhere, Luton driven by their resurgent baying fans were on the charge and with a minute to go the game was lost.
What is it with centre halves and league cups? Poor Gus was finished booed and heckled on the few times he appeared, he was soon sold.
His replacement was Steve Bould. A different kind of legend and later Andy Linighan. At last we had a centre half who would win me a League Cup.
So shall we have two new centre halves by the weekend? Heroes or Villains? Time will tell, but it is a position with form.
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An ace write up Dandan.
My dad told me about Ian Ure who had high expectations heaped on his shoulders, which pushed him into the quagmire that used to be the Highbury pitch.
His accomplice in those days used to be “big” Laurie Brown, whom my dad loved but described as having all the subtlety of a bulldozer. Man, ball and if necessary the ref all went in one shuddering shower of humanity and mud! 🙂
Fast forward to 1984. Another league cup final against lesser opponents that we knew we couldn’t possibly lose, and another legend of a centre half, a home grown one this time. We were 2-1 up with 7 minutes to go.
Ummmm, perhaps 1988 is the correct date. As Nick Hornby in Feverpitch says, Gus at least played for us.
i always enjoy your delvings in to the archives DD, thank you.
I’m very pleased with our purchases of CB’s, heroes in the making? I’m sure we are all hoping so. If they fight hard and have commitment like TV then they stand a good chance.
You’ve missed out Jeff Blockley – signed to replace Frank McLintock! Oh, what a disaster!
Then there was Terry Mancini. He was so bad he became a cult hero!
nice article. Only critism is that Andy L won us the FA Cup in 93 with that last minute winner in the replay.
Another enjoyable read to start me on my day Dandan.
Jeff Blockley would not be out of place up there as well.
“Spurs can win the Premier League, says William Gallas”
This is getting nauseating.
Linighan was also in the 1993 lc team Dave
Poor old Gus forever remebered for that mistake. Why does nobody remember that Nigel Winterburn missed the penalty that would have made it all academic? Nige went on to become a real legend and we quite rightly love him still today.
The worst CB I can remember (and I’ve been going since 1956) was the useless lump that was Igor Stepanovs, a man with the spacial awareness and the all round vision of an anvil.
Tommy Caton anyone? Colin Pates? Disasters
“Vision of an anvil” hahahahahahahah
I too experienced my first two visits to Wembley for the 68 & 69 Finals. (Very dark days when my parents had just moved to the wrong end of the Seven Sisters Road and I went to school in Tottenham!)
We must not forget though, Ian Ure did win ‘Quizball’ (I think it was called) virtually single-handedly showing a level of intelligence he rarely showed on the pitch 🙂
Lovely read that DanDan !!!
“vision of an anvil” – Briliant
“shuddering shower of humanity and mud” – Brilliant
On a daily basis this site feeds my good wolf !!
Ok, who can remember the other people on Quiz ball that made up the Arsenal team?
Willie Young-attempting a pass back to the goalie and hitting the corner flag- enough said. Mind you he did trip Allen in FA cup final…..(prompting Jimmy Hill to push for red card for deliberate foul in scoring position), so he wasn’t all bad!
Bob N7, Willie scored against spurs (his former team) in a derby game. Paul Allen went on to play for spurs. We hate spurs more than bad defending i assume?
Sorry London, I’m old but not that old 🙂
Morning everyone,
London Gallas’ statement is indeed nauseating. Did you know that, allegedly, as a kid he was always upsetting his family.
Once, when he got lost, he asked a policeman “do you think you can help me find my family?” To which the policeman replied “I don’t know, there are so many places for them to hide!”.
Don’t remember who else was on the quizball team but I do remember that Leicester City always did well because Lady Isabel Barnet was their celebrity fan. In spite of being a class act she inevitably chose the route one method and scored nearly every time.
Fine read DanDAn. I too was at both Leeds and Swindon Finals.
I walked back from Wembley after the Swindon game to meet my girlfriend at Golders Green Station. She greeted me the words ” that was funny, wasn’t it”. I turned my back and never went out with her again.
Still pisses me off. If I could remember her name I would find her on Facebook and give her the bollocking I failed to deliver at the time.
Iain Ure was the archetypical CB of his time. Row Z was his motto.
Tommy Caton anyone? Came in a blaze of publicity from Man City. Cannot remember even one good half he had while playing for The Arsenal. Stepanovs was another “head scratch”, how on earth did he end playing for us? Head and shoulders above them all must the cult anti-hero, Willie Young. We cheered when he only half screwed up at the back, and went delirious with joy when he actually did something right. Nice post, brings back loads of memories
Pascal Cygan? Though I quite liked him and he went on to have a fine career in Spain
More bigging up of Flappianski on Arse.com – I fear he’s here to stay.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/tv-online-spotlight-on-lukasz-fabianski
Fantastic story DD, it was just before my time but Dad and Grandad and Uncle kept me up to date about them days too.
Pat Howard anyone?
How about Chris Whyte….??
I saw Gus Caesar last season as a guest on AM and I was really impressed with him.
He is still an out and out gooner, and seemed a really nice guy.
I never saw him play, but his TV appearance and the charmingly intelligent way he responded to questions belied his dum dum CB reputation.
Some of the CB’s mentioned played in truly appalling teams. Where the midfield is of poor quality and do not offer any protection to the defence, practically any CB could look stupid.
I saw a DVD, years ago, featuring, in part, Frank McLintock and Peter Simpson, physically they seemed to be little and large on the pitch. They rarely get mentioned nowadays but they looked terrific to me. 🙂
Good afternoon all, some fine names there, Poor old Tommy Caton dropped dead at only 30 I believe, willy young, yep could bugger it up with the best of em,Jeff Blockley, Baldy Mancini my how the years drop away,Laurie Brown if it moves kick it if it don’t tread on it.
Peter Simpson best defender never to play for England. Frank McLintock a leader to his fingertips how valuable would he be today.
Glad one or two enjoyed,
Great piece Dandan and you haven’t stopped there: “if it moves kick it if it don’t tread on it” made me splurt out my coffee.
Great post Dan Dan… Big Raddy i am stil laughin at the “I turned my back and never went out with her again…still pisses me off!!” Sometimes they just dont understand!!
Laurie Brown would have made you splurt more than your coffee Rocky, if the mood had taken him! 🙂
That was classic Big Raddy!!
Nice to see you Nephew.
Still no Squelchy announcement. But it’s up on our Ins & Outs sidebar, so it must be real.
Stepanovs was better than Cygan.
Didn’t Stepanovs play in that humiliation up at Old Toilet?
Great article dandan, like someone said earlier, Stepanovs was an awful CB – even worse than Cygan and that’s saying something!
Rocky … the sidebar never lies 🙂
Haha James,
I’ve just seen your comment – its a close thing but at least every now and then Cygan got that shiney dome of his on the end of something – although he did have the turning circle of a supertanker.
from what i’m hearing scwarzer is looking doubtful now.
arsenal do have concerns over his fitness hence the low offer – why mess about then? go get Given – anyone but what we’ve got.
Good piece here about the importance of a great ‘keeper and the impact it has on the defence:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/jeremywilson/100011901/example-of-brian-clough-demonstrates-why-arsenal-must-solve-goalkeeper-weakness/?
There is no way on gods earth that city will allow Given to join us. Its the stiffs for him untill at least January and sod him being upset, he took the money, now they will make him walk the walk
On the subject of being injury prone, Squidgy had a fair amount of time out last season through injury, similar in fact to Gallas 😦
Stepanovs 😦 so disheartening I’m not going to check if that’s how to properly spell his name….
Gallas 😆 whatever chance he had of getting into the treatment room at the Grove he hasn’t a hope at the shithole – “Oh, come back later, Bassong, King and Woodgate are here”
Actually, I’ve just read that Squillaci only played 14 league games last season due to an ankle injury. Players often make a full recovery from an ankle injury – far better than knees and groin problems.
Afternoon all.
rasp, the season before he was ever present (and by the way my e mails to you are bouncing back)
Great piece as usual dandan.Lovely to read but makes one feel so old.
In those desperate years in the sixties there was a shining light. George Eastham our great playmaker .
Poor old Stepanovs became a wandering gippo after leaving us – 7 clubs in 7 years.
Hi kelsey,
I don’t understand that? I received one from you . I’ll send you an email now – see if you can reply.
The Stepanovs story was a bit like Nelson Vivas Rocky
Ah, Nelson Vivas
I remember going up to Elland Road late in the 2000/01 (?) season for a vital game in our title run-in. Vivas was on the bench, Nutty got clobbered with about 20 to go and Vivas came on for him. He got skinned down the left flank and Leeds scored. That was the end of our title aspirations that year.
How about Leslie Compton, brother of the Brylcreem Boy, Denis?
That will test even our distinguished senior supporters! 🙂
Blame my dad, I don’t know who he is either!
Dandan, your article on CB’s was so good, now how about one on great/interesting Arsenal forwards of the fairly recent past like Jimmy Bloomfield, Joe Baker, Denis Compton, Geoff Strong, George Eastham, Alan Skirton? That would be good! 🙂
god whats the hold up with Arsenal anouncing squillaci even seville have signed and announced his successor….
maybe the delay is because we are waiting to announce a double signing!!! 🙂
Tommy,
Don’t we traditionally wait until Thursday’s to make announcements, or some b*ll*cks like that? 🙂
If there is any doubts about Schwozzer’s fitness, we should walk away and go for Scheklenbugbear.
Red arse,
I played bowls with leslie Compton at a club near highgate village. A true gent.
leslie and dennis compton represented england at both football and cricket. boom boom.
My dad knew them both personally so maybe he knew you as well. Small world! 🙂 He told me they liked the occasional tipple, and so did he!! 😀
As all the others said, lovely post DD. The ’67 League Cup Final predates me but good to read something of the epic anti-legend, Ian Ure.
On the various CBs mentioned for alleged incompetence, I can’t believe Willie Young has even been mentioned, the man was a legend. Stepanovs has to be the worst I have seen, no redeeming feature there at all. Not many would agree but I always thought Pascal Cygan was ok – slow yes, but an intelligent reader of the game and a decent passer of the ball. When he went to Villarreal, he did better in a slower league and foiled, amongst others, Thierry Henry.
Gus Caesar was terrible (but labouring under the name Augustus Cassius Caesar was always a tough one to live up to). I saw him play for Colchester against Orient once, and it looked like he’d found his level. Anyway, I read an interview with him a few years ago, and he seems to have landed on his feet in Hong Kong, where he’s a financial adviser.
Tommy Caton wasn’t as good as many hoped, but he wasn’t a disaster either. Ended up very sadly as someone said, he died aged about 30, and I believe (but could be wrong about this) he had a serious drink problem.
Pates was very poor but his significance was in being one of the nails in George Graham’s reputation. Linighan would have been the same had it not been for his 240th minute FA Cup Final goal.
Not much wrong with Chris Whyte, he was playing in a mediocre Arsenal side and did ok for us. His stint as a striker was especially enjoyable.
Gallas is of course a dickhead, but he always has been (“has been”, that’s an appropriate phrase…). I don’t see why any of us should be bothered about what he says. Anyway, he is a Spurs player (or rather, patient) now, so where’s the problem with him saying nice things about them? If he had ever been a proper Arsenal player, I’d feel differently, but frankly, I don’t give a toss about him.
Red arse,
I must respectfully point out that when i met Leslie Compton he was about 25 to 30 years older than me, and that is a fact 🙂
Hi 26may,
An excellent and considered comment from you as always.
If I had to pick one thing about AW’s judgement, I think it would have to be his choice (not all of them) of captains. Gallas never had Arsenal in his heart and should never have worn the armband, similarly Almunia has very poor communication skills on the pitch and is also not befitting of leading the team.
Red Arse: I saw the Compton brothers play many times. Dennis was the better of the two at both football and cricket.
You mention that they liked a tipple, well one story is that Dennis had a poor 1st in the 1950 FA Cup final and was given a STIFF brandy at half time and then went on to play a part in our 2nd goal scored by Lewis.
I believe that Leslie was England’s oldest debutant at 38 – I’m unsure if that is still the record.
There were many great Arsenal players in the 50’s – Swindon, Barnes, Logie, Goring, Mercer, Cox ….
I remember watching Doug Lishman scoring three consecutive hat tricks at Highbury and Joey Haverty scoring and then getting tangled upside down in the net.
Good memories from a relatively barren period – 1 FA Cup and 1 league title.
Kelsey,
I’m sorry kelsey, it’s about this time of day that Irish and I normally engage in some verbal tomfoolery. 😀
I just thought this afternoon I’d pick on you instead. Hit and run, so to speak, as I’ve got to disappear. I try to pick my targets carefully, to ensure it’s someone with a good sense of humour. 🙂
Chat to you tomorrow. 🙂
26May, a really good summary!
GunnerN5,
I love hearing about Arsenal players from those days, as I heard a lot about them from my dad, and it brings back sad but good memories from my youth.
Was Cox the winger who scored the vital last minute goal against Chelsea in the 1950 (?) FA Cup semi-final?
Unfortunately, I’ve got to go, perhaps we can chat about this tomorrow, unless you can give us a treat by writing a Post on it? i’d vote for that! 😀
Agreed Rasp. I think Wenger’s weakness on captain selection can be traced back to his more erudite footballing philosophy. He gives players his trust and expects all of them to conduct themselves with commitment, intelligence and professionalism. In that context, the captain isn’t really that important on the pitch, it’s more of a symbolic position. In contrast, traditional blood and guts British football highlights the role of the leader on the pitch, the man who can cajole other players into bursting every blood-vessel in the name of the cause.
Whether that’s right or not, I think a lot of us would like to see Vermaelen get the armband – but that would imply Cesc not having it, perhaps because he would not be here anymore, and there’s no need to reopen that old hornets’ nest……..
You’ll be back Red Arse, you’ll be back…. 😈
AW has played down the role of a single captain as he feels that there are 11 on the pitch at all times.
I vote for the blood and thunder type aka Mr. Arsenal
Dennis Compton Used to like a good glass of wine and I chatted with him in the Bleeding heart in Bleeding heart yard off Hatton Garden a number of times before he died I guess about ten years ago.
Red arse if you check the archives you will find one on Joe Baker i did some time ago.
No doubt when I am stuck for something to write or things are a bit fraught as they have been over the last week I will look again into my mental scrap book for some inspiration or distraction
RA no sense of humour 🙂 you obviously don’t know me that well, does he irish.
London made a good pont that Wenger said regardless if Squilles joins us, he was still loking to strengthen the defence.A bit more poker from the man.
Any chance we might sign someone with a pronouncable name 🙂
Just saw that Wellington Silva is going to do an Arshavin type blog …. hope he watches his mouth more
Kelsey – Like he doesn’t know you at all 😉
” Any chance we might sign someone with a pronouncable name” 😆 There are Kozzer and Squidgy (thanks Rasp) to me now …
I here that the Schwarzer medical is nearly complete, they are just putting all his bits back together again and someone doesn’t know their right from their left leg.Should therefore pass with flying colours, but i hava a hunch he is not the man, it maybe the Ajax keeper.
26may. You have hit the nail on the head in that anyone can wear an armband and toss a coin, it is leaders that we really need to reorganise the team on the field when things are not going quite right. Had we someone with that kind of authority we would undoubtedly have taken 3 points off Liverpool last week. As we are on a remembering kick then take your choice between Frank Mc and Big Tone.
AW has tended to use the captaincy as a bargaining chip to keep players who may have thought about leaving (Paddy V, Thierry, Cesc). Even with Cesc in the side I’d prefer Verm to be the captain.
I think those who are captain material stand out when the going gets tough. I have seen TV marauding forward when we are a goal down and grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck. Without doubt, TV is the best candidate for ‘traditional captain’. Iconic players like TH14 and Cesc can be the PR face of the team, but I thought TH was a poor captain. Cesc fulfilled both roles last season, we have yet to see how much the machinations over the summer have affected his influence on the team.
A may be looking a little far ahead but jack has captain written all over him.He takes no prisoners, looks like a natural born leader, a later day Nobby Stylesbut with more creative ball skill, but of course at the moment he is far too young.
If I am honest I don’t think in the present squad there is one stand out candidate in the mold of Adams.
Our new man will hopefully use his experience to also get a grip when things are going pear shaped, it is the back I worry about when we press to hard and get caught on the break. Tv charging upfield leaves us open to that, he needs someone with the experience to fill in when he does that
I see little jack is back in the England under 21s so presumably the snr squad is out the window for a while
CROSSING NORTH LONDON CLUBS
Jimmy Robertson (Spurs 1964-68/Arsenal 1968-70): The only player to score for both teams in the derby
Steve Walford (Spurs 1975-77/Arsenal 1977-81): Just two games before Gunners boss Terry Neill took him to Highbury
Pat Jennings (Spurs 1964-77/Arsenal 1977-85): The Northern Irish goalkeeper won the FA Cup with both clubs
Sol Campbell (Spurs 1992-2001/Arsenal 2001-06): Suffered years of abuse from the Spurs faithful over his switch
Is Gallas the first to go the other way? 😆
no campbell was, irish 😉
Have you forgotten David Bentley Irish
Cheeky one Kelsey!
Cheeky another pun perhaps.
Ahahahahahaha Kelsey 😆
Dandan – yes I did, but does he count if they was a gap? He didn’t move directly did he?
I guess the result is the same Irish,
Let’s all forget David Bentley.
I concur with Rocky
Irish, there’s a wiki page covering this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_London_derby#Arsenal.2C_then_Tottenham). Short answer is the following players have started at the right end of the Seven Sisters Road and (directly or indirectly) moved to the wrong end: Jimmy Brain, Laurie Brown, David Jenkins, Clive Allen*, Rohan Ricketts, David Bentley, Anton Blackwood and William Gallas.
(* Clive Allen of course nevered played a competitive game for us before he moved to Palace after joining from QPR, in one of history’s more bizarre transfer sagas.)
And Rasp and DD, I agree re captains: TH, while an utter genius, was never the right choice as captain.
Personally, I don’t think strikers (like bowlers in cricket) should ever be captains, they’re inherently selfish and ill-suited to the role. Keepers of course just aren’t part of the game in the same way as outfielders, and probably don’t see the game in the same way, so are equally unsuited. Much better to have someone in the middle of the pitch, a centre back or a central midfielder, though a wily full back is a decent possibility too.
Talking of crossing……
What about Willle Young? Our flame headed CB was saved from the Shithole.
And I recall going home on the Picadilly Line after a game and sitting next to David Jenkins. He had just played for us and was about to sign for the enemy as part of the Jimmy Robertson deal.
Amazing to think that players went home by public transport in those days!!
We have been so fortunate to have seen TA and then PV as Captain’s. Such men are few and far between
But I disagree, I think Cesc is developing very well as Captain, and when the going gets tough it is the little genius who is at the centre of things getting the team motivated. IMO he is the right choice as Captain
Thinking of public transport and famous men…..
I saw Jimi Hendrix play at the Albert Hall, after the gig he was in the line for a taxi with his guitar in hand. I got his autograph (being a callow and star struck youth)
I whole heartedly agree with your 8:03 BR
Raddy,
I used to got to Tin Pan Alley every weekend when I was a teenager to hang out in shops like Macari’s etc. I’d see if I could get the shop owners to let me play some of the vintage guitars. One saturday I went to Top Gear. I arrived before the shop opened. Sitting outside on the pavement was one of my heroes playing his Les Paul for the last time before he sold it to buy more drugs. Paul Kossof – he died on a plane some time later.
Hampstead lad, Paul Kossof. Free played at our school concert.
Morning all, Amazing how our beautiful game can get us reminiscing about so many different facets of times gone by.Long may we be around to do so.
Just for Irish. An extremely poor example of the art of hairdresssing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un5nLLul-s4&feature=player_embedded
Haha Raddy,
You don’t know how appropriate that is in light of today’s post.
New post ……
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