When do we judge Arsène Wenger?

After 16 years at Arsenal, and what is now 7 years without a trophy, is Arsène Wenger still getting more right than he gets wrong?

Stubborn arguments rage amongst the Arsenal faithful, neither side willing to compromise their staunch ‘belief’, so they end up insulting each other.To make a thorough examination, we can only measure the good against the bad, which I shall attempt to do here, and allow people to reach their own conclusions.

Before Arsène Wenger arrived on October 1st, 1996, he had already instructed the club to purchase Remi Garde and Patrick Vieira, and with George Graham’s back five, Dennis Bergkamp’s creative genius, and Ian Wright’s goals, we finished level on points with runners-up Newcastle, qualifying for the Champions League. The first seeds were sewn on what would be a glorious period in Arsenal’s history.

From the period between 1997 and 2004 Arsenal’s football was taken to a peerless level. We were devastatingly brilliant. A class apart.

Chelsea’s Roubles overtook us in 2005, though we stole an undeserved, but welcome FA Cup from MU. 2006 brought the Champions Lge Final and the heart-breaking night in Paris, plus the heralding of an exciting new dawn, and a seizmic physical and psychological move from Highbury, our home of football for 93 years. And regardless of who the comment is attributed to, the Arsenal fans were told by the hierarchy at Arsenal that the move to The Emirates was essential to compete with Europe’s elite, the Real Madrids, Barcelona’s and MU’s. For those that argue we couldn’t compete with Chelsea’s money, the statement was made two years after Abramovich bought them, and they would have been fully aware of the potential for Billionaires to buy other clubs.

These are indisputable facts: Forbes’ Rich List has Arsenal as the 5th richest club in the world. Arsenal charge the highest ticket prices in the world. Arsenal have the second biggest stadium in the PL. Arsène Wenger is the highest paid manager in the PL.

At Highbury we watched Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Bergkamp, Overmars, Ljungberg, Romford Pele, Wiltord, Pires, Henry, at The Emirates now it’s Song, Arteta, Ramsey, Rosicky, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamakh and RvP. With the exception of RvP, it is a huge drop in quality. Self-sustainability is all very noble and amicable, but it removes the teeth of competitiveness.

I don’t care whose idea or project it was, it is my humble opinion that Highbury could have been re-structured to accommodate 60,000 fans, and we needn’t have been crippled with a stadium debt. The exciting new dawn has all gone a bit flat, but at least we qualified for the cash-cow of the CL!

The next phase, 2006 to where we are now, has been more defining in examining Arsène Wenger’s managerial abilities, because he and his players have to justify the stadium move. Given how wide the gulf is between Arsenal and the top, at this moment in time, it has been an abject failure at every level.

Arsène Wenger’s transfer dealings have been nothing short of shocking in some instances. The Goalkeeping situation has been a constant source of embarrassment, and for some to say they would prefer Szczesny over Cech shows the level to which we have sunk. If your intentions are to compete and overtake the likes of MU, buying a player they no longer deem good enough is not going to close the gap. It is not an intelligent use of resources.

For all those that claim we had no money during this period, I don’t think Arsenal were ever in danger of going into administration. There was money available to waste on Walcott, Rosicky, Nasri, Arshavin, Adebayor, Gervinho and Park, and still plenty left over to buy Ramsey, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Hleb, Eduardo, and pay Chamakh’s wages. There was still more money to waste on bringing Sol Campbell back on loan, a retired Goalkeeper the following season, and Thierry Henry back this year. It probably cost Arsenal as much to bring Henry back as Everton paid for Jelavic. And lest we forget big-money flops such as Richard Wright, Francis Jeffers and Jose Antonio Reyes. So that dispels the myth that we had no money!

Tactically Arsène Wenger keeps getting sussed-out by any manager with half a brain, and yet he won’t change or modify them, even when the whole world is watching it horribly unravel. He allowed Drogba to terrorise us and ruin Senderos’ Arsenal career, without ever considering that something different might be required to counter Drogba’s threat. Changing nothing is either foolhardy, and accepting defeat, or gambling on the same principle that has failed you so many times before. And every time an opponent works us out, we have nothing and nobody that can swing the momentum back in our favour. It is the same reason we have failed every ‘acid’ test. We secure pleasing ‘little’ victories occasionally, against Barcelona and MU, but the war has been lost long before.

Two things have struck me over the last fortnight. The first was on the last Sunday of the season, the contrast between MU and Arsenal. MU were seething with rage at seeing the title go, whereas Arsenal were jubilant at finishing 19 points behind MU and securing third.

The second was watching Bayern v Chelsea. No-one has championed African Footballers more than Arsène Wenger, and Zinedine Zidane, Lillian Thuram, George Weah and Samuel Eto’o are up among the best. But none of Arsène Wenger’s buys, African or otherwise, have ever shown the passion, desire/hunger, and commitment that Didier Drogba showed for Chelsea. There’s not one player at Arsenal who is prepared to put the same sort of shift in that Drogba put in against Munich. The same sort of appetite Rooney shows for MU, but something over-looked or not considered important enough at Arsenal.

How will Arsenal respond to Chelsea winning the European Cup? The rest of Europe’s big guns will undoubtedly launch a response, but with many fans sharing the BoD’s delight at scraping through, Arsene Wenger remains the only manager at a major club with absolutely no pressure to deliver success.

Is it acceptable for any football club to have a manager who is under no pressure to succeed? Do Arsenal supporters deserve it?

Given how divided the fans are, is Arsène Wenger now doing more harm than good, and are we slipping further away from those at the very top?

If you are still satisfied with Arsène Wenger’s overall performance, and the BoD’s ambitions are mirroring your own, this Post is redundant. But it can never hurt to have a clean, open debate about matters that strike at the very heart of our club, even if sometimes I/we are wrong. We are students and teachers in equal measure and I have enough humility to concede I can sometimes be totally wrong.

Love and peace to everyone of the Arsenal family.

Written by Herb

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298 Responses to When do we judge Arsène Wenger?

  1. Morning all

    A heart-felt rant Herb, there were many times last season that I questioned whether Arsene knew what he was doing.

    When I watched him agonising on the sidelines, wondering why his team were off with the fairies and completely failing to get hold of a game in a very unArsenal way I did think that something was lost.

    Is it too late for him to get that swashbuckling debonair flair back into our team – who knows, we’ll just have to wait and see.

  2. Our comings and going of players has to be finely balanced in the current market – we don’t have cash to splash. But I agree with you that the lack of a super reliable goalkeeper for a couple of seasons was shameful.

    I do think though, that without moving to the new stadium we would have suffered more, the extra income from a bigger ground must have helped us keep our heads above water.

  3. gunnergetcha says:

    FFS. whats with you muppets.

    Just suport your team no matter what.

    is it him or the board. and under the boards tightass ways do you think anyone is gonna do better than wenger?

    ATID!!!!

  4. Morning all, a fiesty piece there Herb and several points on which I can see where you are coming from.

    During last summer I would have been quite happy to see Wenger go and yet our recovery last season shows me there is something there, some desire on his part to take us back to the top.

    I’m not a Wenger diehard by any means but another transfer summer like the last one and I will be more open to a bit of a change in the managerial stakes at AFC.
    However I beleive whatever our views on the man we have to remember he is just a man, fallible as well as being capable of great things.

  5. John Gee says:

    I am amazed that you feel the need to question AW !! All you “armchair pundits” who have probably never kicked a ball in your life seem to know all the answers. The word is “supporter” meaning to support not go into inane rants of “you don’t know what you’re doing”. It’s pathetic and brings shame upon the club.

  6. Rasp says:

    gunnergetcha – if you’re such a diehard supporter (and we’re all muppets) how come this is the first time you’ve commented on the site when 90% of our articles are very pro AW and presumably you’d agree with their sentiment?

    It would seeem that you are one of those who is just looking to criticise other supporters for their views – a tad ironic don’t you think?

  7. Mark says:

    Sometimes you don’t need pressure but you do need heart. I feel AW should move upstairs with the accountants and we need to bring in a man who can breath in new ambition and motivate good players, who seem average now, to play hard and with pride. I feel he has been great for the club and still has his role to play but right now it seems hes more worried about the paper work than the silverware. I hope I’m wrong, lets see what the summer brings but I expect us not to play CL in 13/14.

  8. les says:

    You call Reyes a waste of money? His two goals on his debut against chelsea in the cup? The run to the european cup? Scoring against spurs?
    Being battered by the neville brothers destroyed Reyes. He was like Cesc. He wanted to return home, and like Barca did to Cesc, Reyes had what was done to him by Real. Reyes was a wasted talent, but at least he was a great thrill to watch.
    The other points are correct to some degree [we have too much crap and the time it took to get an above average keeper in]. but Reyes, Quality buy

  9. Rasp says:

    John Gee, you clearlyt don’t understand the meaning of the word ‘debate’. By raising these points, Herb has given you the opportunity to have your say.

    I’m sure you haven’t bothered to understand what this site is about (see About AA at the top of the page). We publish articles from any supporter who has a valid point to make whether those in admin agree or not.

    Like gunnergetcha, what a shame you didn’t join us when we had articles singing AW’s praises.

  10. May I say that questioning the manager does not mean you are not supporting your club?
    Conversely it should be said, IMHO, you support the team/club first, not the manager – otherwise do we change clubs if, say, Wenger went off to manage PSG ?

  11. Rasp says:

    Morning chary,

    Good point. It is paradoxical that those who think they are being clever by panning the author/site for the article are obviously only keen to get involved when they have something to moan about – exactly like the supporters they are criticising. Where was their virtuous positivity when we were publishing uplifting articles and the team was in 17th place?

  12. paaka says:

    song has done a good job in the mid field but the manager needs to style up. Even great economists conform to the market trends and are dynamic

  13. Adizza says:

    God bless you.You are 100% right. I hope other arsenal fans understand this b4 arsenal becomes an history.

  14. Scott says:

    We judge Wenger when the board Tells us all that he’s been given X amount of money to spend,and MUST spend it,which gives him every chance to bring trophies to the club.
    Until then,none of us know exactly how much he has at his dispersal each season,it’s all guesswork.
    Until then,how can we judge??

  15. Scott says:

    I will take the author to task on one point tough.
    Wenger and fans alike were only happy with 3rd after our poor start to the season,so comments like that need to be put not the right context.

  16. Rasp says:

    I can’t agree that building the emirates was a mistake. It was absolutely vital to the development of the club. It brings in another £40-50m in revenue a year and puts us right at the top in terms of venues in the PL (ask Brazil and Coldplay :) )

    I shall watch with pleasure as the likes ot totnum and pool struggle to fund and build their new stadiums and suffer the resultant years of hardship to pay for it and adapt to their new homes. We’ve done it, and we should be very proud.

  17. Hi Raspers, I think the responses we’ve got prove that they it’s not just the Wenger out brigade who have followers who are, shell we say, a tad “over-enthusiastic”

  18. Rasp says:

    Thanks Scott, that’s absolutely fine. No-one says you have to agree with the author, I agree with your point.

  19. Josh says:

    Have to agree with this post. Finally someone speaking sense. I cant help but think that I am being taken for a fool by the board and this manager – the amount I spend on season tickets year after year. Okay my choice (something I am questioning this year).
    The point is the board and Arsene has adjusted our (the fans) and the players expectations for Arsenal. We now celebrate finishing above Spurs, this for me is an embarrassment. We no longer battle for the title or cups. Our model was built around Arsenal qualifying for the champions league in order to receive our £35 Million. To me what is the point in qualifying for something that whenever we play anyone of any great status we are knocked out!. We are a million miles behind the likes of Man U, the Chavs, Man City and if we are not careful soon Spurs may catch up. Okay the spending in football is ridiculous but we no longer compete in my view. The board and Arsene state that we compete – To compete I take that as challenging for the Title cups and the champions league not merely taking part.

    I hope something changes at Arsenal.

    I said this a while back and was shot down- Everything has gone down hill since David Dein left. He was not always a popular figure at Arsenal but he recognised that football was changing and we where going to be left behind. I ask ourselves this, Do we want to compete or do we want to take part?

  20. Chidi dean says:

    Hell nah.i always knew dis would happen becos of his foolish n unresourceful philosophy.d solution is easy.let d stingy man b fired n save his blushes.i dnt really see y he still remain in charge.d likes of gervinho,chakmah,pretender ramsey,djorou,sluggish matersacker.i dnt think they re patroit of arsenal n re nt willing 2 give everything they got.they should be offloaded with immediate effective.n bring in players who can sacrifice,like didier drogba of chelsea.

  21. Josh says:

    @JohnGee i have played the game at a high level and have been paid to pay Football I am not an armchair pundit, I just think we have the right to ask questions when we spend the sort of money we do

  22. TotalArsenal says:

    Hi Herb, thanks for a very well-written post in which you have summarised all the things you have blogged about, over the last year or so, you believe are wrong with the club and Wenger. :)

    To answer your question ‘when do we judge Arsene’? He is judged all the time, constantly, and through a filter of very high expectations.

    For me, it is simple: without Arsene Wenger at the helm in the last 7 years, we would be nowhere now. He guided us through a difficult period, whilst the goalposts were moved by the brutal money injections of Citeh and the Chavs.

    Let’s take what the BoD did in the last seven year as a given – a steady factor: who would have done better than Arsene in that period, taking into account the number of quality players that left us through retirement/ wanting to leave/ the BoD cashing in, the lack of available funds, the need to build a home fortress again (new stadiums do that to you), the significant increase in competition, the constant pressure by the media and impatient, disgruntled fans to bloody win something?

    But you wrote: ‘Is it acceptable for any football club to have a manager who is under no pressure to succeed? Do Arsenal supporters deserve it?’ And that, Herb, shows to me that you have not been watching Arsene very closely this season. This man cares more about Arsenal getting back to success than anybody else, anybody! And the pressure he is under is nothing compared to anybody at Arsenal; staff or supporters.

    You might remember I did a tongue-in-cheek post about a year ago, publishing a job advert for Arsene’s role. Nobody was able to come up with a decent, realistic alternative for Arsene.

    But you are entitled to judge him and to find him wanting, and some of your arguments have merit. He definitely is not perfect!

    I am sure your post will lead to some heated and meaningful debate today. :)

  23. GoonerDave says:

    A reasonable rant, if there can be such a thing!
    My main gripe with Wenger is the use of our funds, such as they are – his utopian idea of everyone on a similar wage is flawed. It invites bids for our best players, encourages players to run down their contracts, and puts us in an impossible position when we want to get rid of our deadwood.
    Correcting this problem might be costly, but it would eventually pay dividends – no more dross on 50K a week, our top players would get top wages and we wouldnt have to endure top player exits every single summer.
    That said, I am convinced that the right man is in charge and I will support him and the team.
    Problems need to be fixed, but AW is a top man, top manager and we need to be 100% behind the players next season to at least give ourselves a sporting chance.

  24. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    I could barely read this to the end.

    Undisputable facts?? Arsene highest paid in the PL. Completely unprovable, and imho its probably false.

    Drogba’s shift in the CL final….lol. Go on then pick out three good moments across the 120mins inc the shoot out. I think you’ll be stumped for finding a third.

    If you’re incuding Zidane as African, then why not Vieira. ,?? Oh it doesnt suit your argument..?? You probably didn’t rate Kanu either.

    ‘little victories….lol

    I’m truly astounded by todays post.

  25. Fredauko says:

    Much have been said about wenger. Disadvantages hevier than advantages but do the board have the feeling and pains the arsenal fans have? Its better to call arsenal a cademic club than a prof.english club.

  26. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks Herb, a very well written piece, though i think most of your critiscisms are a load of old tosh. ‘You are awful, but i like you’, hahaha.

    Though our views on how in the short term the Club goes forward are diamatricly opposed Herb, i know that, and correct me if ime wrong, you are someone who believes in the majesty of Arsenal Football Club and are hurting more tham most when you see the likes of Chelsea win the European cup before us. You have every right to question the Club and Wengers philosophy.

    I see things a little bit differently. The Club and Arsene have done a splendid job the last seven years steering us to this point and we are very close to reaping the benefits. We will win the League next season, though it will be very close with the Manchester Clubs. In seasons to follow we will keep winning it and the margins of victory will be greater. Fantastic times for the Club, and us as supporters lie ahead.

  27. keys says:

    This truth is what most Arsenal fans do not want to hear. Wenger has lost all his coaching ideas. Most of his decisions are shocking. Eg. None of the top 4 teams will make Ramsey a first team player. We now buy players rejected by the big teams and compeat with mid table teams for players. Look at players like Silvestre, Squilaci, Benayoun, Park, etc. We are now on the downward spiral

  28. oz gunner says:

    @ Chas

    great video this morning, one of the best i’ve seen

    @ Herb

    A really good heartfelt post. I don’t agree with parts of it but no-one can ever doubt the big arsenal supporter you are.

    I honestly think Arsene has been really unlucky with the personel he has brought in over the last few seasons, and for that reason I think he is hardly at fault. The list:

    * Arshavin: He was on every teams wish list after the 2008 Euro’s. He was immense for Russia. He had an immediate impact upon arrival and i think he had a major impact in bringing us champions league football that season. He dropped off, for what reason I’m sure he can’t even tell you. Was it Arsene’s formation and him playing out of position? I’m not sure but he was a master purchase at the time.

    * Nasri: Left before his prime because we was a greedy git! French international that could have blossomed under Arsene. We shall never know just how good he could have become. However, I wish immeasurable pain on him!

    * Adebayor: see Nasri (replace French with Togo)

    * Hleb: see Nasri (replace France with Belarus & take away a lot of pain). If he stuck around with flamini and cesc we would have had the best Midfield in Europe.

    * Rosicky: After 2006 WC we were all licking our lips, Pires replacement looked an absolute gem! Unfortunately injuries ruined his career and left us without a quality player for large parts.

    * Walcott: Slow to develop but that is hardly Arsene’s fault, still plenty of time to judge this transfer.

    * Eduardo: very very unlucky. Arsene unearthed another gem, a true fox in the box. We all know the story. One player i greatly miss!

    * Campbell, Lehmann and Henry were a shrewd bit of business when we needed experience the most. Great bit of business as far as I’m concerned!

    Also you said:

    “There’s not one player at Arsenal who is prepared to put the same sort of shift in that Drogba put in against Munich”

    I completely disagree with this statement. How can you honestly say players like young jack, RVP, sagna, verm, kozzer, and szczesny wouldn’t put in that sort of performance for Arsenal? I think these players would bleed for Arsenal (not to mention Frimpong).

    Tactically i agree, that needs work.

    Once again great post Herb

  29. S Sure(ghost of) – you feel very passionately about Herb’s post – I’d very much like to see your riposte in the form of a headline post.

    G’wan, you know you want to !

  30. Scott says:

    Keys,he problem has been he’s had no options on the bench to turn to.
    A big budget gives you world class players both on the field and bench.
    You really don’t think it makes a difference???
    I guess everyone has their own idea of the truth.

  31. Winston Churchill said ‘Success is not final and failure is not fatal’. Did Churchill not know any Gooners?

  32. TotalArsenal says:

    Oz@10.32 top comment my Aussie friend! :)

    Sharkey, surely you are not astounded with the content of Herb’s post? If there is one thing you cannot criticise Herb about, it’s lack of consistency!

  33. Rasp says:

    Sharkey if you’re reading. I am working on a post that I guarantee you will like, but it involves a lot of research so I’m a few days off at the moment.

    Like chary says, we don’t get to read enough of your stuff so why not write your reply to Herbs post today?

  34. TotalArsenal says:

    * you are NOT

  35. Galway Gooner says:

    Its a tought one to call. I don honestly think that regardless of what the board and Wenger may say we have been very limited in our transfer funds. The club did make a call to give up on short term success with the aim of building a globally successful club when the stadium was build and the bills all paid. And I think that during this phase Wenger has been likely the best manager we could hope for. However, now that we are starting to see the bills come down and the cash come in the pressure or rather the type of pressure on him to produce results will really come on.
    Is he capable of changing his style of management to compete with the likes of City, Chelse and United or is he stuck in the cheap mode of operation where beating the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Newcastle is considered success? I’m not sure but I do think that by the end of this summer we will know exactly where Arsenal and Wenger are going.
    I think we need to accept that we have been operating on a shoe-string over the past 5 years and that despite how uncomfortable it may be for us as fans to say it we have done as well as can be expected.
    Part of me thinks that Wenger’s time is up that he has gone stale and that we need a change but then I think for all he’s achieved in the past for the club and for the work he’s done bringing the club forward he is entitled to one more chance.

    However, if he doesnt manage the club’s business over the summer correctly then I would be quite happy to see him go.

    He is the best paid manager in the league, I think up until now he has earned that wage from a business perspective, now he needs to earn it from a football one.

    few minor points:
    Reyes was not a flop, I thought he was a pretty decent player who simply wanted to go home.
    Drogba in his prime was an animal and the best striker in the world. He destroyed several teams not just ours so I dont think its fair to blame Wenger soley on this.

  36. Sharkey – I agree with both chary and Rasp, why don’t you do a reply to Herb’s post. It would make interesting reading ;)

  37. oz gunner says:

    well said TMHT

    ‘You are awful, but i like you’ is very well said haha

  38. Peachy/Raspers – I remember Sharkey’s other post -the one with the dry cleaning themed title.

    Just ‘cos I’m too lazy to do any more posts doesn’t mean to say I can’t drop someone else in it to write another one. :)

    IN other news, Roscky has made 3rd place in Arse.com’s player of the season poll. I’m happy for him if a tiny bit surprised at his inclusion.

  39. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    Chary, Rasp…due to work I hardly have the time to comment these days. I now have HP’s delivered by email which generally means I pause to read it in the morrning, and make a quick comment if I feel the need.

    Rasp – I don’t need to like the post. I can happily debate most of them.

    TA – I was astounded by the lengths the author went to prove some points. Half truths and wild claims seem to be the order of the day. I’m surprised that the old chestnut about ‘Arsene’s non transfer bonus’ wasn’t thrown in as well.

    Yeah we’ve had our problems, but I just don’t see the need to exaggerate them.

    I find it quite incredible that anyone can suggest that Highbury should have been expanded to 60k, without any elaboration or explanation.

  40. Rasp says:

    Galway Gooner – excellent balanced comment, I completely agree.

  41. oz gunner says:

    He posts when he wants,
    He posts when he wants,
    Shark-es-peare,
    He posts when he wants!!!

  42. gooner4life says:

    Fellow Gooners,
    We must unite together and attack the AFC board over all media mediums.Wenger has one arm behind his back for transfer funds.The board are pocketing the share prices at the expense of the highest season ticket holders.
    MORE shockingly Hill-wood is a liar and hypocrite of the highest order,he said that usaminov should not take over at AFC
    ! Yet guess what, hill-wood is on the board of usaminov steel competitor!! Oh that is the real reason.The board are using AFC aas a cash cow it is so OBVIOUS now!!.AFC fans and season ticket holders were sold a dream prior to the satdium build that after 3yrs at the new ground the stadium income will generate enough funds to purchase two world class players a season, to date vermalleon is the only world class!.
    AFC Fans UNITE against the board!!!!!!!!!!

  43. Kuria says:

    well researched, well worded, well “truthed” esp about AW not under any pressure to deliver.

  44. h4rj says:

    This article made me laugh. The grass isn’t greener and Wenger HAS worked miracles. Keep the faith, it will all come good. The points gap is misleading as well, we had a bad start and got stuffed by Barca and ManC stalling the Nasri and Fabregas transfers and by players not signing for us until our CL place was secured. We are competing with clubs financed by oil fields so competitive top four placing is definitely a success in my eyes and a trophy (champions league or PL) would be a gift from the gods, ie we will need to be blessed with luck.
    Also, it takes a special team and manager to keep a club competitive whilst having funds squeezed by a new stadium. Some clubs get relegated others suffer like ManU did and even then people were calling for Alex Fergusons head. Wenger is still the man for me and I get the feeling that he has secured his legacy and the safety of football at the top for Arsenal for the next two decades if not the next hundred years with the way he and the board have handled the stadium move.

  45. Scott says:

    Gooner4life,add Podolski….not much of a list,admittedly lol.

  46. Scott says:

    With reasonable spending,I think two to three years is a realistic target to challenge seriously for the league.
    Next season we’d be a chance at a Cup.

  47. S Sure @10.54 – boooo !

    If we take out the regulars, comments from new posters seem to be evenly divided on Herb’s question. Would this have been the case 5 years ago ?

  48. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    h4rj, i had to look twice to make sure it wasnt me that wrote that. Excellently put and spot on.

    I wish to plagerise your work. You have a short user name so next time you post can you put TMHT on your handle?

  49. ERICKO says:

    AW to some extend he has failed.this is because since the departure of invicibles his transfer policy has been totally akward.he started investing in only young lads who lack experience to challenge for the trophies.AW shld wake up and change his tactics for us to compete with the likes of MU.he shld also bring in three experienced players to motivate our current squad

  50. Bradster says:

    Off the topic but I’m trying to understand these blog sites. Is Untold the AKB’s and when they say Anti Arsenal Arsenal do they refer to the supporters or this site?

    Anyway, I think some points are valid and some are quite harsh. I always say base a manager on the whole season and replace then to give the new guy time to fill in. I gave Wenger a just just pass mark for this season after seeing Liverpool, Tottenham and Chelsea perform as they did.

    Poor performance compared to Fergies boys who most of the season looked average but managed to compete with Man city. I do believe the ref’s helped them as much as they could seeing how they faired in Europe but a ref can only do so much in open play.

    Man U’s defence and keeper was much younger and inexperienced than ours and had a number of injuries but still managed to keep alot more goals out than us. They used oldies like Giggs and Scholes and Benched 2 strikers for the whole season and they were on fire the season before.

    I also felt Weger’s tactics were stale and he did nothing to change it until the full backs came back. I still see us struggling next season against park the bus counter attack.

    I think it’s not the right time for a new manager but Wenger needs to get the team to perform or I would be someone calling time on his Arsenal career.

  51. Joegunners says:

    Of cos a point better than last season, a place better than last season and this give us hope. But to be candid Wenger wishes to continues to take the blame cos arsenal is his laboratory for experiments, the board careless cos they dont record loss and the fans too enjoy the near success experience, if they neglect the stadium for sometimes the board ll find solution to the wishes of the fans. Wenger is a good coach but with different hidden mission, if not why is he afraid to buy establish players that will bring him complete success? Mixture of potential talents and establish stars will bring the desired silverwares for the whole gunners.

  52. mystic says:

    With respect herb, whilst a heart felt article, it could also be said to be a poor one. Quote ‘…..and allow people to reach their own conclusions.’ but in giving your opinion of players and ‘it is the reason we have failed every acid test’, etc, you are trying to sway the conclusion.

    As @Scott quite rightly points out, until we know who is puling the purse strings it is difficult to judge Wenger – having said that it is possible to reach a conclusion based on the fact that he turned down an opportunity to go to cash rich Real Madrid.

    Whilst he was unfit for ages and is probably not in the same class as Drogba or Rooney, watching Rosicky diving in for tackles and running about all the time, it is possible to conclude that he applies himself just as much as either of them.

    Whilst I agree with your point that finishing 19pts off the top isn’t good enough, given the poor start to the season is it fair to conclude that infact finishing 3rd and automatically qualifying for the CL wasn’t a success of sorts under the circumstances?

    In conclusion, whilst I agree with those who say that we should be asking questions, ultimately – no matter how I feel at times (and I am pissed off sometimes) – I will support Arsenal Football Club: Not the board, the manager, the players, but the Club. In fairness I think that you and almost 100% of the contibutors will also do so.

    Keep up the articles, but please don’t try to influence opinions when suggesting that you are simply stating facts.

  53. wolfgang says:

    The first ten games or indeed the first half of the new season will show whether the gunners can challenge. if not it could be a repeat of 2011-12. The only difference is the gunners could finish out of the top four.
    As Liverpool have shown managers are judeged on results. Too many times Wenger has refused to change his accent on pretty soccer when the name of the game is winning.
    Hopefully with Bould as his assistant,there could finally be a change in philosophy. If not,when the results go aganst him,he should finally realise his time is up.

  54. Gooner's Perspective says:

    Morning..
    Having read through your article. I’m feel obliged to counter balance it. Much of your discussion has been about the recent drought and it was described in a very negative view and giving little or no credit to the man who made this club a greater club. Much about what he does is no longer appreciated because people forget and choose to keep a blind eye to them and just focus on what is at the moment.

    First off – A lot of people don’t give credit for Wenger in terms of building defense. They keep mentioning he is lucky cause he inherited George Graham’s back five.
    Fact is that is true to a certain extend till 2000. 2001-2002 Season till 2006 Including Unbeaten Season. Back 4 was Lauren – Toure – Campbell – Cole. Dare I say that its no longer George Graham’s.

    Your opinion on stadium move…”it is my humble opinion that Highbury could have been re-structured to accommodate 60,000 fans, and we needn’t have been crippled with a stadium debt”
    Fact – I wasn’t possible in that piece of land that’s why the move was needed.

    There was money available to waste on Walcott, Rosicky, Nasri, Arshavin, Adebayor, Gervinho and Park.
    Fact:
    Rosicky was and is still a full International Player.
    Nasri is a full International Player
    Arshavin was setting the Euro On Fire. Dare you say you didn’t want him before? and His transfer and form earned the champs league that year. Without him…It wouldn’t be possible.
    Gervinho, To judge a player on his first year and call him a waste of money. Henry didn’t score for 9 games in a row in the beggining? If he had been judged like Gervinho did… His confidence might have just gone bust.
    *by international player I mean You don’t be international player of respectably strong nations unless you’re good.

    So why is it so many people describe the current crop as not good enough, fall in standard etc.

    Fact is fans nowadays wants the household names, the big money transfers. The Hazards, Cavani, Hulk, Goetze etc.
    Anyone else is a fall in standard/lack of ambition.

    “At Highbury we watched Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Bergkamp, Overmars, Ljungberg, Romford Pele, Wiltord, Pires, Henry, at The Emirates now it’s Song, Arteta, Ramsey, Rosicky, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamakh and RvP. With the exception of RvP, it is a huge drop in quality. Self-sustainability is all very noble and amicable, but it removes the teeth of competitiveness.”

    Fact is Wenger has been very consistent in his transfers. He bought relatively unknown player for a smaller price and mold them into a competitive squad. It is the fans that demands more and more. – You may point to the season ticket cost and fans having rights to demand. Well that is irrelevant cause I’m just pointing out that the man has been Very CONSISTENT. He don’t buy stars and household names. Except maybe Arshavin taking into account he was star of the Euro. Apart from that relatively unknown too.

    Even RvP was bought with that policy! As an Arsenal Fan for the past 16 years. I’m happy with this transfer policy. I’ve enthused about how players can grow and evolve. How their game changes and improves after each season. So I’m sure if you had been a fan for that long or longer you’d have picked up Wenger’s habits.

    P.S. all those wanting to keep RvP now, Remember for the past 6 seasons before last season. How many would admit to commenting him glass leg and wants him sold? and How many of those wants him to stay now?
    *PERSPECTIVE*

    By the way, I don’t understand people calling Reyes a Flop. In my opinion, He was becoming a good player before he was destroyed by a combination of ManUtd loving Refs and Nevile Brothers.
    Fact – before the Utd game that ended the 49 Unbeaten he was on 7 Game scoring Streak from the start of the season, including the winner in 5-3 come back @ Middlesbrough, win @ norwich, winner @ everton. Does anyone remember that?
    Or is it just his whining about the rain that is most memorable?

    “Two things have struck me over the last fortnight. The first was on the last Sunday of the season, the contrast between MU and Arsenal. MU were seething with rage at seeing the title go, whereas Arsenal were jubilant at finishing 19 points behind MU and securing third.”

    No one wants to aim for 3rd place. Everyone wants to be a winner. A winner is he who beats all the rest hence there will ever be only 1 winner.
    First of we’ll have to be realistic. After the start that we had, winning third place is an amazing finish. If Wenger had been sacked after the 8-2 defeat and a new manager brought in managed to give us 3rd place.
    He would instantly be respected and fans would look to next season with optimism.
    Its just a matter of perspective I guess. You can say we finish this season well and lets build for the next season. or You can say Wenger lost it. We’re just going for 3rd/4th place every year for the past 7 years.
    OR WORSE I’d rather we not be in CL than in CL so this club will be in ruins, board will sack wenger, change board member..etc
    This is the same as saying I rather burn my flat so It’ll get renovated.
    These aren’t the right mindset people. A “supporter” as the word suggest SUPPORTS the club and wishes it well not for the worse, Regardless of intentions.

    “But none of Arsène Wenger’s buys, African or otherwise, have ever shown the passion, desire/hunger, and commitment that Didier Drogba showed for Chelsea.”
    NONE? what about Vieira? Campbell? Henry? Lacking Desire/Hunger/Commitment?
    The current crop you have Sagna, RvP, Vermaelen, Kos, Rosicky, Arteta.. These players have Hunger and Commitment. The other members of the squad are questionable.

    FACT – Drogba is an amazing player. Commitment, Hunger, Desire, Skill all mould into one. He is a Chelsea legend and deservedly so. Just like Henry is an Arsenal legend.

    “Wenger remains the only manager at a major club with absolutely no pressure to deliver success.”

    When the situation is not going your way and results are bad that is where you are most vulnerable, confidence is low, and all things you do gets questioned. That feeling plus the fans, the press on this back, questioning all this decision, his tactics..etc at the start of the season is PRESSURE, accumulate that with the fact that he played a part in building this club and hungers for it to stay at the top. I don’t know what else to describe that except enormous amount of pressure to deliver success or at least be competitive at the top.

    “is Arsène Wenger now doing more harm than good, and are we slipping further away from those at the very top?”

    While its understandable fans hunger for winning medals, bragging rights etc. One should always remember that this club has remained competitive at the top. Wenger has brought about success and sustain Arsenal at the top of the table. While we demand improvements and winning medals from the current squad,we should never forget that for a manager to bring success and keep it at the top 4 of the league for 16 years is an amazing achievement. That we must keep in Perspective.
    No top 4 place is guaranteed or given by merit. Ask Liverpool, even with all their history, getting a top 4 spot isn’t as easy as it seems.

    Hence with the team having finished the season Strongly, New signings on the cards, New Assistant manager and First Team Coach with new fresh Ideas, why is there no optimism for next season? Why even harbor thoughts such as “are we slipping further away from those at the very top?” in your mind?
    I’m very much looking forward to next season with optimism and curiosity as to any new changes the coaches will bring and growth / improvements in the players.

  55. oz gunner says:

    @ Gooner’s Perspective

    Brilliant response. Take that Herb haha

  56. cletus buchi says:

    hi
    Mr wenger lack d character,also over reliance on some player is robbing us trophy. come to think of it when player are coming to arsenal with no names they pretend the love d club.the manager is trusting the wrong player. most player just come to arsenal to fine tune their skills.the moment they play well one season they want out, instead of consolidation. Look chelsea team is more than 7yrs, bayermunich is more than 7yrs, barcelona is more than 5yrs even real maldid is about 3yrs. each year we change our team. last season the only person dat survive last two season in d middle of the pack is song. dis year u will another combination. Great Teams are not build dat way. Mr Arsene is good but trusting wrong player,all what we need consolidation(2 yrs without good players leaving trophies will troop in)
    gunners for life

  57. goonermichael says:

    25% through the post I scrolled down to see if it was by Herb. Very well written Herb. I disaggree with a lot of it and you obviously only focus on the negatives (as you are probably the most glass half empty person on here). I don’t think we are a million miles behind the mancs. If we take out our bad summer and start (we can obviously put that down to Wenger if you like) We we’re only about 6 points behind the mancs. we have bought Podlski and have Wilshire to come back. The chances of losing all our full backs at the same time are very slim too so I think we’ll shock some people next season.

    You say Highbury could have been remodelled. Are you an architect who understands planning laws? Two of the stands are listed buildings. I’ve read that they had to move because it was impossible to turn Highbury into a 60k all seater stadium.

    It is not an undisputable fact that Wenger is the highest paid.

    You talk about drogba and senderos. Torres always terrorised vidic getting him sent off twice. Your favourite manager never found a way of counteracting that.

    In answer to the headline question we’ll judge him when he goes.

    As a footnote check out republik of manckunia and unitedrant. They are saying the same things about thier “shit” players

  58. gooner4life says:

    Gooner4life,

    Gonners perspective i totally agree, ALSO read my article above.The board hill-wood are really screwing wenger and the club, although wenger has economic degree so dare i say it is doing well from shares!!

  59. arsenal-steve says:

    Without good critique we would live in a Fascist world. Valid critique changes for the better. Those fans who challenge your right to question Arsene Wenger shock me. They are not from a world I like. It seems to me the loss of David Dein and death of Daniel Fiszman, who dearly cared for our beloved club, left our club run by the ‘Suits’. Gazidis, Kroenke, Wenger have signalled a ‘grey’ era. The model is a ‘business’ model bereft of the ‘glamour’ model. Without Wenger’s mentor, Dein, the luminosity of this club has waned. We are conned that we are a wonderful business model, and that Roman Abramovich and Sheik Mansoor are villains. ‘They will grow tired of their toys’ I hear from the Naive. The myth that when the FFP is entrenched Man City and Chelsea will be thrown out of the European Champions league along with PSG and Malaga, Anzhi. Won’t happen. There is nothing fair about Arsenal’s cash cow. There is nothing honourable about Kroenke. At least Abramovich and Mansoor are giving joy to the fans. Wengers relationship with the fans is almost autistic. The man who has nearly 30% of the shares, Alisher Usmanov, cannot get on the board, see the full books, or inject money into the club. As I say the fans are being conned. They will believe anything. That the human mind believed a certain gentleman in 1939, shows how descent people can believe anything they are told.. Emotion drags intelligent men into tribalism. Compassionate reason rescues them. We need a change at our beloved club. It’s not that clean.

  60. gooner4life says:

    Fellow gooners,

    WE NEED TO ATTACK THE BOARD!!! WENGER HAS ONE ARM BEHIND HIS BACK REGARDING FUNDS.THEY ARE PROFITERING,AFC HAS BECOME LIKE A CAPTIALIST BANK IN THE PREMIERSHIP!!

  61. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb
    I’m up to it at work, but flicked over to see the title of todays post and the author.
    Boy, am I going to love this. Off to cancel meetings and clear some space. Back as soon as I can.

  62. TotalArsenal says:

    Gooner’s perspective@11.23, thanks for that phenomenal comment. :)

    Everybody should start every day with reading your last paragraph. Top stuff.

  63. Scott says:

    Podolski…a huge signing.
    Wiltshire..if he comes back and stays fit will be enormous.
    Gervinho….will definitely be better next season IMO.
    Szczesney…will definitely be better next season IMO.
    Gibbs…will definitely be better next season IMO.
    Jenkinson….ditto.
    Ox…..ditto.
    Ryo….an unknown,but could be a ripper.
    Campbell….I’ve seen a bit of him,and he’s going to be a ripper.
    Kozzer……next season will see him known as world class.
    TV5…lacked a little consistency,but shold be back to his best next season after an interrupted campaign.
    There’s others of course,but with a little luck,our squad has a hell of a lot of improvement in it.
    Name another squad who,as it stands today,has potentially as much improvement in it.

  64. goonermichael says:

    usmanov is the only shareholder to ask for dividends but people think he’s our saviour. If a sugar daddy takes over I’ll walk away from football.

    The only valid plan that most anti Wenger people have is get in usmanov. there is no plan that involves getting another manager in with the current board except Herb wanting lambert. lambert will take us down “in my humble opinion”

  65. Scott says:

    Arsenal Steve…..we can’t question those who question Wenger,but you can question us…….have I got that right???
    Yep,sounds fair!!!

  66. TotalArsenal says:

    Arsenal-steve what a load of one-liners – utterly incomprehensible!

  67. Here’s a moving piece on what it means to be an Arsenal supporter.

    http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=exclusive&id=2705

    Brought a tear to this old cynic’s eye.

  68. ad says:

    yeah wenger has got it wrong, so have you herb, wenger transformed thuram, george weah? wenger convinced him could be the worlds best and he was at one point and credits wenger for it. Highbury couldn’t have been re-structured wasnt possible.

    Yeah we cant compete with the clubs above us, but that ain’t wengers fault, that’s the board. Wenger showed he can work miracles with little money , that doesnt mean the board give him less and expect miracles. Wenger changed the premiership everyone copied him.

    Players have let him down but they have also helped him, arshavin helped us secure 4th the mid season he came in, i admit he has been rubbish since, henry helped us on his loan.

    herb the problem with arsenal is the board and people like you, you wont be happy until we are like liverpool. please watch arsenal vs liverpool at the start of the season, when pool beat us and the sky commentators state the turn in fortunes for both clubs. Look where we finished.

    Herb , people like you dont see the bigger picture and never will. You probably want wenger to leave but ask yourself who will come in and tolerate the board they way he does. Wenger leaves so will wilshere, song, vermalen, ox, young prospects such as aneke, gnarby and jebb.

  69. goonermichael says:

    If Danny Fizsman “clearly cared for our club” and was obviously a very good businessman. Why did he sell to Kronke and not the fat uzbek criminal? Was he a good judge of character?

  70. Bradster @11:14,

    The acronym AKB does not refer to Untold, but is a rather lazy grouping of those whose standard response is ‘Arsène knows best’

    I’ve never come across ‘Anti Arsenal Arsenal’ but I don’t think it has anythiong to do with this site

  71. neamman says:

    AW isnt perfect but who is the alternative? I agree he should have handled the GK situation earlier but he has a good one now. I also believe that the success of Keown as defensive coach in the CL run shows he needs a specialized defensive coach..
    Re his spending..he is an economic major and he sees the financial collapse that is coming.. we are better prepared to handle it than any other team.

  72. goonermichael says:

    Peaches
    I think it’s more aimed at anyone who doesn’t think Wenger is a front bottom as “arsene knows brigade”

  73. goonermichael says:

    anti Arsenal Arsenal is used a lot on twitter to refer to “Arsenal” fans who seem to want Arsenal to do badly to reinforce thier negative attitudes to the board and wenger. the type who always comment a lot after we lose then dissapear when we’re on a good run.

  74. glic says:

    A good post for debating Herb.

  75. goonermichael says:

    the AKB thing used to be aimed at ACLF

  76. arsenal-steve says:

    Scott

    I enjoy your right to support Wenger, I enjoy your right to support the board, I enjoy your right to vote Tory, I enjoy your right to support Spurs. Read John Gees early post to see what is hard for me to understand. You have a right to have any opinion as long as it doesn’t HARM others (Otherwise we would support racialism, arbitary predudice). Our right is not to defame, insult, or deny peoples rights.
    I said
    ‘Without good critique we would live in a Fascist world. Valid critique changes for the better. Those fans who challenge your right to question Arsene Wenger shock me. They are not from a world I like.’

    Work the meaning of what I said in the second sentence, you will realise you misinterpereted it.

    regards

  77. arsenal-steve says:

    TotalArsenal
    Maybe you are a bulb short of a chandelier, or is that too hard to understand? You need to do some more reading. No not the Beano!
    Good Luck

  78. gooner4life says:

    goonermichael,

    The board in particular hill-wood, it is widely known through various media.That he is a hypocrite , he did not want usmanov to take control but yet hill-wood is on the board of usmanov steel competitor!! Also via many types of media kroenke never invest’s in sports clubs just buys them for shares gains!

  79. wally says:

    I don’t think the question should be when do we get to judge him. That ship has sailed.

    I think the more pertinent question is whether his flaws (while also among his strengths) are so great that they inhibit the club’s advancement.

  80. goonermichael says:

    gooner4life Who is a hypocrite?

  81. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    arsenal- steve,

    I personaly have no problem with your right to say what you wish, but your earlier post reeks of someone who is desperate for a suger daddy, in other words, please someone, any one, throw money at my club, as long as its not mine hey? Also your understanding of ffp is unresearched and not thought out, basicaly its rubbish.

  82. Scott says:

    Steve,Tory…don’t know the word.
    I’m an Aussie mate.
    I will defend my and anyone else’s right to an opinion.
    Ok,I get your point,but I don’t understand why it is so many Gooners do nothing it complain about the club and Wenger.
    Valid criticism can only come from those with two eyes open,and not from those who Can never find a positive thing to say about the club at all.
    There are plenty of that kind of,ahem,supporter.

  83. glic says:

    Nearly forgot.
    Happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday, dear ludicrously gorgeous handsome lying bastard, happy birthday to me.
    It`s that once in a life time birthday , when your as old as the year you were born, no , I`m not 1956 years old, that would make me Jesus , Son of Dennis. I`m 56 years young.
    So as it`s Glicday, I shall list Ten players of which two would be a nice birthday present Arsene.

    Hazard. Sold , out of stock.
    Goetze. Still available.
    Kagawa. Still available.
    Muniain. Still availabl ( my current fav` ).
    Eriksen. Still available.
    Sneijder. Still available.
    M`Vila. Still available.
    Vertonghen. Still available.
    Thiago Silva. Still available.
    Jesus Navas. Still available ( who doesn`t want a shirt with Jesus on the back ? ).

    I will still trust in you Arsene if we dont get any of the above. Lets face it, In an unfair football finance world, your doing a more than fair job.
    You are like a non- biological father to us, I feel your pain when it`s not going right.
    Keep up the great work Dad.

  84. goonerjake says:

    Right!

    Let’s get the money issue dealt with first.

    You discuss the players we have bought and the money we have spent.

    These were all shrewd if not always successful purchases. The fact was that relative to what chelsea and man utd spend on transfers and wages far exceeded anything that arsenal could or were prepared to spend, also with the probable exception of reyes we purchased about three of the players mentioned for the price of what they paid for one of their signings.

    Now their are many more points I could discuss with you however must get back to work.
    Sum up though
    Wenger has had relatively little to spend
    Man city and chelsea have unlimited resources
    Man utd and liverpool continue to spend big
    Spuds are getting closer
    Result finishing in top three of prem
    Result wenger is succes.

    That being said I really appriciate you post many good points were made my friend even though I don’t necessarily agree with you. But then again it is only my opinion.
    Cheers and all the best
    Goonerjake

  85. TotalArsenal says:

    Arsenal-steve, LMHO! You are like my flickering light-bulb. :lol:

  86. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Happy birthday Cornwall. What you doing to celebrate?

  87. goonermichael says:

    glic
    I’m 54 tomorrow geminis rule!

    kagawa has gone to the mancs. vertongen (if the quotes are true) can go fuck himself.

  88. Scott says:

    Jake,after missing CL,I reckon Spuds have taken five steps backwards……they’re miles from us now.

  89. glic says:

    Arsenal will be around in a thousnd years. This is not a sprint, it`s a marathon, we are building the footing`s for the future of a continuining great football club, we do not want footing`s of sand ,we want foundations of concrete. Arsene sees the future, whereas some only see as far as the end of their nose. Be patient, great times are ahead.

    More than a little help comes from Terry on this matter, he has shown me the light ( having a telescope helps him see a bit further than most ). It`s so much better feeling positive than negative, give it a try !. :)

  90. g clarke says:

    the prob with arsenal is that arsenal fans dont rate the plkayers or manager as much as other clubs mu have not had a good season but they dont get the reaction off the fans

  91. glic says:

    Thats true gm, Gemini`s rule, especially in this household, Mts glic is a Gemini too !. :)
    Happy birthday for tomorrow gm.

    Terry
    Mrs glic is housebound with an excruciating painfull knee injury, so It`s a Indian Takeaway later. Being my birthday , doesn`t takeaway the amount of landscaping work I`ve got to do outside, so out I go go. :(

  92. TotalArsenal says:

    Happy Birthday Glicster, and also to Andrey Arshavin and Cee-Lo Green! :D

  93. mystic says:

    @wally – for me the ship has returned to dock, awaiting major repairs. Had Arsenal not turned around the appalling start to last season I would have said it had sunk.

    I would suggest that Wenger as Captain is on the verge of a mutiny (by many of the fans), but is still well supported by his main officers (board & players).

    The iceberg hasn’t yet reached the ship, but it is certainly drifting closer. Fleet Commander Kroenke and Admiral Hill-Wood need to address the drifting before the ships sinks without trace.

    Maybe it is the helmsman that needs replacing, or maybe it is the equipment needs updating.

    If the expectation of the rate of knots is realistic then Arsenal are sailing blindly, if it is unrealistic then it requires engineering work on the hull not replacing the ship’s captain.

    What a load of bollocks I have just written!

    Lets at least wait until the transfer window opens, or even after the euros and then decide who needs to be judged.

  94. TotalArsenal says:

    Mystic, :) It is all plain sailing to me! :)

  95. Herb: “Highbury could have been re-structured to accommodate 60,000 fans…”

    SharkeySure’sGhost: I find it quite incredible that anyone can suggest that Highbury should have been expanded to 60k, without any elaboration or explanation.

    Big Al: It’s a LISTED building also. Even now. Don’t you like the Emirates, Herb?

  96. Adelaja Ojudun says:

    It’s a pity Arsene Wenger is gradually losing his quality as a top coach, sometimes i find it hard to see him conceed the EPL trophy to the likes of MU, Chelsea and co., he is often satisfied with 3rd or 4th position for the past 7years now. Arsene Wenger should quit when the ovation is loud. Gunners till Jesus come

  97. Shard says:

    “These are indisputable facts: Forbes’ Rich List has Arsenal as the 5th richest club in the world. Arsenal charge the highest ticket prices in the world. Arsenal have the second biggest stadium in the PL. Arsène Wenger is the highest paid manager in the PL.”

    Umm.. I’m not a season ticket holder (as my only previous comment on this site probably told you) but Arsenal charging the highest ticket prices in the world IS disputed by another blogger I know, and have met. I don’t really know how it works , and as it doesn’t directly affect me (for now at least), I haven’t really checked, but he does offer an explanation. Also, Wenger being the highest paid manager in England. I remember the time the managerial rich list came out, there were actually two of them. 1 was from France football, and I can’t remember which other source it was. I also can’t remember what the discrepancy was between the two, but there was some. Maybe they both argued that Wenger was the highest paid, but if so, there was some difference in the amount.
    Anyway, my point was there is space for ‘dispute’ among those ‘indisputable facts’. Not saying I know what those facts are.

    (Oh but the Forbes’ list is crap. Most of these rich lists don’t mean cash in hand. They mean a ‘worth’. How that worth is calculated is something I haven’t looked at. But I think I recall in the Forbes list, even the debt a club has is added on to their worth. That might be cool in business terms. But it certainly doesn’t make a football club richer and more able to spend on transfers.)

    As for the manager’s tactics being an issue. I really don’t know what to say to that. What are ‘tactics’. I think the word ‘tactics’ is a little overused. No one among the paying public or even in the media will understand tactics, and all that goes into making those tactics work on the field, as well as football managers do, least of all someone who’s been at the top table of the profession for decades. How much of a change in tactics is too much? Arsenal have a certain style of play (which more often than not results in victories) If we drastically switch ‘tactics’ around every time we face certain ‘threats’, which will be virtually every match, then we no longer have a style of play. No longer have a philosophy of playing. Not saying either way whether that’s good or bad. But my understanding is, that our team, or any team’s, weaknesses are there as a result of their strengths. No team can be perfect, or even the best in ALL aspects. The trick is to minimise the weaknesses and maximise the strengths. It isn’t as simple as ‘switching tactics’.

    Your assertion of Drogba showing more desire is just bizarre. Firstly, Drogba has let his temper (you’ll argue desire) and his histrionics get the better of him before, to Chelsea’s cost. Here he was, playing in what he probably knew was his last match for the club, playing in the biggest game he would play in. Was that desire for Chelsea, or for himself? Then on to Arsenal.. Do you think we dragged ourselves back from our low position in the table to third, losing a captain that turned his back on the team, another player that followed him out the door, and a talented midfielder to injury, without showing desire??! Sorry, but no. Sagna bloody well got up and tried to play on with a broken leg. Arteta, Robin, Song, Koscielny, vermaelen, Gibbs, even Ramsey, have all shown DESIRE to win. To compare what they had to pull through all season long, with ONE performance from an aging player playing in a cup final, to our player’s detriment, is just not right.

    As for the question about Wenger doing harm.. No. He isn’t. He wants the absolute best for the club. He puts that above himself and his personal glory. (Just my opinion). I bet he could have/still can walk to virtually any club in the world. He could always have demanded more money for signings and won his trophies and then left. So what if the club find it hard to pay off all that debt after he’s gone. He’ll have the medals for himself.

    The way I see it. Arsenal at this point, are being punished for playing by a different set of rules. Of course, those rules are self imposed, but not only do I find them, in some way, honourable, I also think, that in the long run, they are more sensible. And even with those rules. we’ve been in a CL final, 2 League Cup finals, 1 CL semi final, 1 FA Cup semi final, and have been close to the PL title at least once, if not twice. The failure to win trophies is partly down to the team’s failings, partly to luck (it does make a difference) and also, partly on referees. (note I put referees separate from luck) If the refereeing was better/fairer, we would have won the 2008 PL title, progressed beyond Liverpool in the CL the same year (and who knows, kept Hleb and Flamini in the process), and we would have progressed beyond Barcelona last year. The margins in top level sport are indescribably small, and Arsenal have the deck stacked against them in both financial terms, as well as on the field on matters outside their control, it would appear. I think Wenger does a fantastic job for Arsenal and at the very least, deserves respect from all Arsenal fans.

    None of the above is to say that we can’t do some things better or differently, but overall, I’m proud of Arsenal.

  98. samuel says:

    The facts are there for all Arsenal fans ,seven trophyless seasons and too many mediocre players(Walcott,Arshavin,Wilshere,Rams
    ey ) so hanging 10-000 thousand ;in Arsene we trust ;banners all
    over the Emirates stadium won,t bring a CL or Premiership title to
    the club ,rather obvious,time for Wenger to go,he,s clearly overst
    ayed his tenure as Arsenal coach ?

  99. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Lovely stuff Shard

  100. arsenal-steve says:

    glic

    You are right. Our time machine just returned, and what you said is true. Arsenal relocated to Andromeda Galaxy and we won the title in 2487. Man City won it for 470 years in a row, but because of FFP have been relegated. So fans become cryogenically preserved and watch Arsenal in 2487.
    Voila

  101. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Just a few points about the possible expansion of Highbury. The club did contemplate as an option the redevelopment of Highbury. But as Big Al rightly points out the East stand was listed as grade one, and from memory the West stand Grade two. The club thought about closing the corners and turning the clock end into a super stand which would have increased capacity to near on 50,000. What would this have meant in yerms of lost revenue? Allow me to explain. The obvious one is 10,000 fewer bodies, but even more importantly, the listed buildings restrictions would seriously curtailed the Clubs executive boxes and posh seats. People should bear in mind that on a matchday Arsenal generate 40% of there income from the boxes and posh seats. You see, its not realy about numbers, its about the amount of expensive seats avaliable.

  102. @TotalArsenal: May 30, 2012 at 10:19 am
    Pretty well spot on.

    @Shard: May 30, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    Pretty well spot on. As regards your 3rd paragraph… makes us (of a certain age) remember Ken Bates buying Chelsea for the sum of ONE POUND sterling.

  103. dandan says:

    Herb. I started to read your rant with serious intent, but have to admit somewhat shamefully that by the end I was reduced to helpless laughter, at which point this quote came to mind. I share it with you gladly:

    “Only reason can convince us of those three fundamental truths without a recognition of which there can be no effective liberty: that what we believe is not necessarily true; that what we like is not necessarily good; and that all questions are open”

    One day perhaps the reasons, corporate, financial and personal that underlay AW’s methods will become public knowledge, then and only then, we will be truly free to be so judgemental.

  104. goonermichael says:

    samuel if you list wilshire as a mediocre player it shows you have absolutely no idea about football.

  105. GM/glic – geminis do rule, it’s my birthday on Monday. :)

  106. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    GM, samuels assertion that Wilshere is a mediocre player is the line of the day. It sums up perfectly some of the people that like to have a pop, uneducated, ill informed, masochistic, and sometimes just plain stupid.

  107. TotalArsenal says:

    Wow Shard, super comment @1.05.I especially love your penultimate paragraph!

    Herb, where are you mate? Your post has led to a lot of Gooners responding with some fine comments today. So well done. :)

    Now you need to reply to them….. :lol:

  108. Jamie says:

    Very good post but Arsenal have already signed Podolski and need to sign 3 or 4 more players to compete at the top. None of us know whether Wenger will go out and sign these players but one new signing we will have next season will be Jack Wilshere, the boy has unbelievable talent and the credentials to become and Arsenal legend. He was sorely missed this season and we have had to watch Ramsey struggle in that role. Another top class centre back coupled with Yann M’Villa who I have a lot of hope for and an out an out winger to replace Theo’s place in the starting line up, he just isn’t good enough to start, as an impact player from the bench is where he excels when players are tired. Wenger needs to be brave this summer and show he isn’t scared to mix it with the big spenders although i do have doubts he will.

  109. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. A controversial post which has elicited some superb comments. I may not agree with you but you make a decent fist of an argument.

    Gooner’s Perspective & Shard. Tremendous stuff. Thank you.

  110. TotalArsenal says:

    dandan, great quote! How are your ribs doing and has your wife now fully recovered?

  111. OMG Aesenal says:

    Who gave anyone the duty or right to ¨judge¨ Wenger, his players or for that matter the Board? Why do they ¨need¨to be judged? What comes of ¨judging¨them?

    Judging someone fairly and objectively requires that you have been there and done that like they have, or that you are, at least conversant with what they experienced, their depth of expertise, experience and knowledge and that you have , in the minimum, tried to do what they did or are doing. How many times have any posters on this blog been judged b y others? Quite often it is done unfairly and with a bias or motives that are less than noble.

    Positive, fact-based and fair criticism of AW and AFC is fine…without it we become a Club that abhors supporters’ participation and commitment. That said, the type of comments made by some bloggers here are demeaning, spurious and so generic that they border on sheer ignorance and mental laziness.

    The terms used like ¨mediocre players¨, deadwood, losing the plot , lack of ambition, cheapskate and so on serve no purpose other than to parrot what the shite media yellow tabloid ¨journalists¨ and spin doctors on MOTD use ceaselessly in their campaign against AFC and Wenger.

    Nobody on this site or any other has direct access to AW’s, the players’, their agent’s or the BoD’s plans, thoughts, negotiations, or lives. Judge NOT lest ye be judged!

  112. Rasp says:

    Happy Birthday to all the Geminis :P

    There have been some really good (and lengthy) responses to Herb’s post today – and some beautifully succinct ones too, thanks dandan :)

    Hopefully those new bloggers who have contributed will visit again and air their views on other topics in the future.

  113. evonne says:

    Gooners’ Perspective @ 11:23 – immense comment, thanks.
    A fan for only 16 years?? You sound more mature than….Glic and Terry together :)

  114. Rasp says:

    Hi OMG, I understand your frustration at lazy journalism and the use of demeaning phrases to describe players/the club.

    It is a fact that we are all judged all the time. It is not possible to be selective and only to be judged by your peers. Furthermore everyone’s ‘subjectivity’ is corrupted by their own bias (conscious and unconscious) and the criteria employed in arriving at a judgement will be different with every individual.

    Since even stats cannnot be presented as fact when used to substantiate a related point, it would be easy to conclude as you have, that no-one has a right to judge – but they do have a right to an opinion, and it is Arsenal supporter’s opinions that are encouraged on this site in the form of friendly debate.

  115. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    I heard that Evonne. hahahaha

  116. evonne says:

    Terry :) xx :)

  117. Big Raddy says:

    Happy Birthday to you Gemini’s may you never become “overweight”

  118. TotalArsenal says:

    Evonne@1.53: :)

  119. For those who reckon we,as a club, are piss poor compared to the sugar daddy clubs, this is where the phrase comes from :
    They used to use urine to tan animal skins, so families used to all pee in a pot And then once it was full it was taken and sold to the tannery…
    if you had to do this to survive you were “Piss Poor”.

  120. goonermichael says:

    I’m already battling with weight issues raddy :(

  121. glic says:

    arsenal-steve :lol:
    I thought only me , TMHT and Red Arse were the one`s that could time travel on here.
    Can you confirm to the other AAers that in the year 2487, I am still outrageously handsome and that TMHT is the richest man in the Universe, due to his invention of the painless cure for Baldies ( except for the Saturnians on Saturn, because they saturn on their heads, it wont grow ), also that I am the second richest man in the Universe, due to my invention of a painless ” Brazillian ” procedure, which helped me become a Brazillionaire !.

  122. GunnerN5 says:

    Herb, To go into detail would take me too long but suffice to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with the vast majority of your post.

    I find it a tad sad that an Arsenal supporter has so many negative vibes about our club.

    All is not well but the picture is nowhere near as bleak as you paint it.

  123. micah says:

    Goodone herb, we all share the same faith as arsenal supporters, so try to make ur comment without insults, this is a debate. To me anyone who dose a particular thing for 7years and fails is a failure, arsene n the board re not an exception.

  124. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    hahahaha, sounds like a great future Cornwall.

    Micah, so what have they been trying to do for seven years and failed at?

  125. TotalArsenal says:

    Chary, thanks for that – for a moment I thought you were taking the piss… :P

  126. herbsarmy says:

    Hi everybody,

    Apologies to all for my late arrival, life sometimes gets in the way!
    What the responses show is a great sense of pride and passion for the club, and that sometimes we can be right, but equally wrong.
    Arsene Wenger asks to be judged in May. When millions of people’s moods are reliant on one man’s decisions, then supporters reserve that right.
    If we really did have to leave Highbury, fine, I accept the point, it was only a personal opinion. Do I like The Emirates? It feels like its just another part of our re-branding, and a further step away from our traditions.and history, but again it’s all subjective and based on personal viewpoint.
    The point about Drogba was that he was able to take Chelsea to a level that we can only currently dream about. And he did it against Barcelona, Tottenham and Liverpool too. In the big games he delivered. In comparison, Thierry Henry had a chance to do it for us in 2006 but fluffed his lines, and he had to leave us to become a CL winner.
    This is an example of the quality of squad we could have from the last 6/7 years, based on our self-sustainability, and our financial restrictions. Again it’s subjective conjecture, so you don’t have to agree.
    GK: Van der Sar (£2m from Fulham); Joe Hart (IMO Sparky would have dealt after making Given his 1st choice); Brad Friedel.
    RB: Micah Richards (Again IMO, Sven would have dealt); Bacary Sagna.
    LB: Leighton Baines (Wigan); Gareth Bale (So’ton)
    CB: Vincent Kompany (Anderlecht); Gary Cahill (Villa), Christopher Samba (African, and cost Blackburn £400,000); Koscielny, Vermaelen.
    DM: Yaya Toure (before Barca), Michael Carrick (West Ham), Alex Song.
    MC: Fabregas (who could have been persuaded to stay had we shown the right intent); Arteta; Wilshere, Ramsey.
    Wide Right: Antonio Valencia (Wigan); Aiden McGeady (Celtic).
    Wide Left: Adam Johnson (Middlesbro’); Hatem Ben Arfa.
    AM: RvP; Arshavin; Oxlade-Chamberlain.
    Main Striker: Berbatov (Leverkusen); Podolski; Jelavic (Rangers).
    As I said, it’s just a personal opinion, but even if you only take one from each position (non-Arsenal players), it significantly strengthens our squad to the point where we would be major contenders in all competitions, and was very achievable given the time-frame.
    Yes we had Lehmann in 2005, when Van der Sar moved, but Van der Sar would have represented a big up-grade, and again IMO could have made all the difference in Paris 2006.
    Finally, Happy Birthday to all those celebrating now or soon. Mine was last Saturday.

  127. mystic says:

    For all the hassles, problems and woes that Arsenal cause, how many of you would prefer to be scum fans!

    To all those who bemoan that Arsenal CAN’T financially complete, please remember that the truth is that they CHOOSE not too – almost 30% of the shares are in the hands of a man who is much richer than Roman at chelski.

    Is it really worth buying silverware, rather than competing for it? I know the current situation hurts, but in perspective is a few years without silverware that much to a club that is over 125 years old?

  128. My bit for education of the masses for the day TotalA. :)

    Just heard a ManUre bod say they have a squad of 25 George Clooney’s ?

    Do what ? They have Scholes who is almost Clooney’s age but he’s a ginger not a grey head.

  129. mystic says:

    For all of Arsenal’s current hassles, of the 19 times that London clubs have won the title – 13 were by Arsenal!

  130. GunnerN5 says:

    Mystic @ 2:54.

    For the record Abramovich is estimated to be worth $12.1 billion U.S.
    and Kroenke wealth is estimated at $3.2 billion U.S.

  131. Goddy Etuk says:

    I am totally with you. I think it’s time we start making our voices heard. We shouldn’t be paying highest to watch players who have proven time and again that they have nothing to offer. Year in year out it’s the same story ‘we were close or we did well to qualify for champions league’. Arsenal is bigger than that. If Wenger doesn’t care anymore, he should just go and we will always thank him for all his good work in the past.

  132. Big Raddy says:

    mystic. Nice stat!

  133. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Mystic, very true, and it will be 14 out of 20 next May.

  134. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. It is so easy with hindsight. We had Nasri, Cesc, Hleb, lichy, Kolo, Ade, Arshavin Eboue, etc etc etc.

    Whilst there is no question mistakes have been made, AW could know for sure that Diaby, Senderos, Djourou, Denilson, Vela, Bendtner, etc would not become top players.

  135. Big Raddy says:

    Of all the comments I have read today, the one thing that infuriates me more than anything is the assumption that Mr Wenger has no passion for the club anymore.

    Anyone who watched him last season and thinks that is quite frankly deluded

  136. evonne says:

    TA – have you noticed that Glic didn’t even bat an eyelid?
    My mum tells me that Warsaw is already full of foreigners (a bit like London), the excitement all there, good weather in place, all we need is the first kick off to get the party going!

    I am just praying that the pseudo-fans will not spoil the occassion. So much preparations, money and dedication went into organizing this great event, I hope that Poland will do football proud. And win of course :) 42 more of scumbags were arrested last Sunday.

  137. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Yeeesss, 14 league titles has a very nice ring to it. When i get home tonight i shall play Beethovens Moonlight Sonata, indulge a nice claret, watch May 1989 on DVD, and envisage number 14.

  138. evonne says:

    Raddy – did you watch Chas’ video posted on 7:14am today? Wenger’s face says it all. If he is not passionate about Arsenal than I am Lady Gaga

  139. herbsarmy says:

    Hi BR,
    AW is paid top-dollar to make those decisions, and if you notice, Fabregas and Arshavin are included in the list.
    He also has a thing for buying players who have suffered major injuries. It worked out well with Overmars, but Kanu arrived having had major heart problems at Inter, Diaby played only 6 games in 2 years because of injury at Auxerre, Rosicky has just completed his first full season since joining in 2006, and BFG has a history of major ankle issues.
    How can an ambitious manager not find a place in his squad for a world-class GK (and CL winner with Ajax), for £2m?

  140. Give us a song then Evonne ;)

  141. evonne says:

    …and it’s Aaaarseeeenaaal, Arsenal FC, the by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen!
    That’s my all time fav song Chary :)

  142. I hope you were wearing a silly hat, Lady Gaga style, when you sang that Evonne. :)

    Good choice of song, when I heard that been sung after the Verminators late winner against the bar codes I’m sure my blood curdled in ecstacy while I joined in.

  143. Rasp says:

    Hi Herb,

    Thanks very much for today’s post – it has prompted 140 comments so far and produced some really good detailed responses – so a great success :P

    Many do not agree with you and have put the contrary argument very convincingly. I’m interested to know, have any of the responses caused you to rethink your position on some points?

  144. GunnerN5 says:

    For the fellow stat minded people here are the stats for penalties awarded in 2011/12.

    Left to right = For, Against, Home, Away.

    Man U – 11, 3, 9, 2
    Man C – 8, 3, 8, 0
    Wigan – 7, 8, 1, 6
    Bk’brn – 7, 3, 5, 2
    Stoke – 6, 7, 5, 1
    Liver – 6, 4, 3, 3
    Bolton – 6, 3, 3, 3
    Swan – 6, 3, 6, 0
    Chels – 5, 6, 3, 2
    Evert – 5, 4, 3, 2
    Spurs – 5, 1, 0, 5
    Wolvs – 4, 7, 1, 3
    Ful’m – 4, 3, 3, 1
    Newc – 3, 9, 1, 2
    WBA – 3, 9, 1, 2
    A’Villa – 3, 7, 1, 2
    Arsenal – 3, 4, 0, 3
    QPR – 3, 3, 3, 0
    Nor’h – 2, 7, 2, 0
    Sun’d – 2, 5, 0, 2

  145. mystic says:

    @GunnerN5 I mentioned a man who has almost 30% of the shares, I was not refering to Kroenke, but Usmanov (I am not saying whether I am pro or anti) who according to Forbes is currently worth $18.1 billion.

  146. evonne says:

    Chary – I am more like Madonna these days, an old turkey
    Are you looking forward to Euro? I cannot wait, 1 week to go

  147. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. No arguing on the GK point.

    And to be balanced I have been desperate for 3 players since 2009 – a DM, a ball playing CB and a left sided goalscorer. Hopefully we have addressed two of those issues.

    A back up GK and a proper back up RB are important.

  148. evonne says:

    GN5 – ManU 11??!! That’s 33 points!

  149. Big Raddy says:

    Spurs penalties is interesting. Nothing given at home and only 1 conceded all season.

  150. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    I will give you a tune Chary

    whoooaa wohooa whoooah, Arsenes caught in a Bad Romance
    whoooaa wohooa whoooaa, Arsenes caught in a bad Romance

    Rah rah ah ah ah
    Rah rah ah ah ah

    i want your titles Arsene
    i want your champions league
    Arsenes caught in a Bad Romance

    Whoooaa whoooaaa, Arsenes gonna win number 14
    Whoooaa whoooaa Arsenes gonna win the Champions league

  151. Yeah, Evonne I am looking forward to it as it’ll be fun in a way that I hope all the ManUre/Spud/Chav players come away from them with injuries whereas our boys sail through and come back to us in great condition.
    Plus it’ll be relaxing to watch a tournament where I don’t follow any one side(if JT hadn’t been picked I would have had no reason to embargo England)

  152. GunnerN5 says:

    Evonne,

    Man’ U were awarded 11% of the total penalties and 16% of the home penalties — Suspicious or what?

  153. TotalArsenal says:

    Evonne, I noticed Glics oversight :) Or maybe he is just uninsultable!

  154. GunnerN5 says:

    Mystic,

    It doesn’t matter how much money Usmanov has because he has no authority to either buy or sell anything other than shares.

  155. Arrgghhhh Mr Syrup, your singing is awful ! Give me Ronnie Dio any day.

  156. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Not quite GN5, his ability to purchase shares via his vast wealth ultimately gives him the upper hand. Kronke is a businessman, and if Usmanov were to offer him something beyond his expected future return on his investment in The Arsenal, we will have a new majority shareholder

  157. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Glad you enjoyed it chary. hahahaha

  158. TotalArsenal says:

    Ermmm, who signed Owen, Hargreaves, Smith, Fletcher, etc? And how many times has the same twit signed the wrong GK before he finally struck lucky?

  159. GunnerN5 says:

    TMHC;

    Anything can happen in the future – but that’s not todays reality.

  160. Good job I’m tone deaf Mr Syrup :)

  161. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thats true Gn5, but i have a feeling our Uzbeki friend is biding his time.

    Thats a shame chary, i was about to give you my rendition of lady Gagas “Arsenes Poker Face”. hahahaha

  162. Onyeka philip says:

    Beliv me is time for wenger to go

  163. jnyc says:

    I love Wenger, for many reasons. But i do see his faults and mistakes. I think on balance he has been great. But i will be very honest and say that my opinion wilk depend strongly on what happens in this transfer window. We will see then, and in this upcoming season about the near future for arsenal, and can judge him then.

  164. tom says:

    People who think Arsenal can win major trophies under Wenger again, think that based on his earlier years at the club. However, the Premier League landscape has changed since the Invincibles . The big four has become big six or seven, and even relegated sides have enough talent to give us trouble. One thing that hasn’t changed is Wenger’s stubborn belief in his squad’s quality , when it’s been obvious to most for many years now that Quality had been lacking .Combined with his inability to change tactics from one opponent to the next , or change them during a game , like great menagers

  165. herbsarmy says:

    Hi Rasp,

    I think possibly the Highbury/Emirates issue has made me re-think my stance on the stadium issue.
    Overall, for me, one of the biggest fundamental mistakes Arsenal’s BoD’s made, was allowing SAF to get away in 1986, and whilst I agree that AW is as passionate about Arsenal as most of us supporters, that doesn’t neccessarily equate to ability. There’s no disputing that 15 consecutive years of CL qualification is a wonderful achievement, but apart from 2006, our record in Europe is abysmal.
    Some have said he could have gone to Real Madrid, Barca, etc., and maybe he could, but Arsenal have always looked after him financially. He doesn’t have the same pressure at Arsenal that he would encounter at those other club’s.
    Ten defeats in a PL season is poor, and the fact that we finished 3rd only serves to reflect the overall decline in quality.
    I personally believe that SAF would have won us at least one European Cup, so that has to be the barometer for which we measure AW. He is a very good manager, but not a great.
    As I said in the Post, when the heat is on, we have failed all our major ‘acid’ tests (and before anyone mentions WBA, we needed a large slice of fortune from their GK that day, and as for Keiron Gibbs’ season-saving tackle, the WBA player’s touch was too heavy, and made it look better because of the significance of the circumstances).

  166. goonermichael says:

    so negative I’m off for a while

    Drogba do me a fucking favour. You’ve just used drogba as an example of good and mentioned TH missing in Paris. You are so sad it’s unbelievable. Sorry I’m so fucking angry.

    your life must be very sad.

  167. goonermichael says:

    Is this a fucking rednose love in?

    Sorry I’ve had enough.

  168. jnyc says:

    Just read shards long comment. Beautiful, really well written and passionate! GREAT JOB SHARD. Keep sharing

  169. Rasp says:

    Thanks Herb, that is great and what sensible debate is all about. Only a fool refuses to listen to the opinions of others. Either way its been a healthy and respectful day’s blogging….. up until the last few minutes :roll:

    Come on everyone, lighten up, we’re all Arsenal supporters.

  170. herbsarmy says:

    GM,

    It is a debate, and I only use those individuals as an example of the sort of quality we should be enjoying at Arsenal.
    If you can’t debate with a civil tongue why bother?

  171. goonermichael says:

    I’m not going to bother herb

  172. Pat7 says:

    Interesting and provoking post Herb & well done for posting it!

    I disagree with most of it and better bloggers than me have pointed out its faults such as Kozzer must be the gutsiest defender we’ve had in ages for fighting to the end but Rosicky came close to that this season, Benni did great and Ramsey, despite his lack of form kept on putting the effort even when he was played when totally stale – presumably because nobody else was available.

    Wenger & co. made the brave decision to join the top table & risk a few seasons etc to build what we have now. I understand that 2014 is the big year when we can increase our income substantially for shirt sponsorship etc so this summer should see a change in buys to bring potent results to gain greater monies from this source. Along with FFP this should swing the pendulum nicely toward us.

    The above signings with the improvement made by all the players that somebody listed above plus Jack back should make us a mighty force. All we as SUPPORTERS have to do is get behind them, come what may, as we have on SOME occasions – 12th man & all that! COYR!!!

  173. herbsarmy says:

    Good for you, and thank you for your valuable insight.

  174. lari3ri03 says:

    I have been saying it since 2004, when Jeffers came to Arsenal, the problem with the Club is the man Arsene,he should be an assistant not the main man, because in his 16 years he has been second best to Fergie,but then Second best is first after fergie in other circles, so there you go, a demotion is in order.

  175. lari3ri03 says:

    Or maybe we need to employ a coach for Arsene, just remember the way he hugged Pat Rice on the last day of the season, that’s a sign of someone riding his luck not some one expecting to win.

  176. mystic says:

    @GunnerN5 My words were
    ‘…please remember that the truth is that they CHOOSE not too’ It is the fact the board (Kroenke) chooses not consider Usmanov’s wealth.

    However as you say ‘anything can happen in the future’. Wenger might quit / RvP might re-sign / Sneijder might sign / Aguero might ask to leave citeh for Arsenal / Rooney might request a move to the Emirates – all pretty unlikely, but then ‘that today’s reality’.

  177. Danish Gooner says:

    Wenger have come up short there is no doubt about it,he will not win a trophy before he decides to do things differently and that is a promise.Every year it is the same thing “This is a special team” “Natural evolution will give this team trophies” “We can win put tournament in as you like” “These players have incredible mental strength” Bringing in X players will kill Y players career(showing a dissent for the fans and more concern for his own abject players careers) “We dont need to spend money we can solve it internally”.It is getting tiring and a bit comical having to absorb the same kind of bollocks every bloody season.And dont for one moment believe any of the rumours out there,i have info from someone close to the club that the only recruitment will be M`Vila and only if they lower their prize.I sincerely hope it is fabrication but i must say i fear the worst.

  178. goonermichael says:

    luca_85 (Chelsea) says… I agree with redgenesis, fair play to the Citeh fans, enjoy it, but Mancini does not impress me at all. If you put Jose, Wenger, Fergie or Capello in that job they would of won the title weeks ago.

    Posted 1:11pm 14th May 2012

    .

  179. GunnerN5 says:

    Mystic,

    You are correct, it was reported that Usmanov offered a 100 million pounds to finance transfers. But what strings were attached to that offer, if we were to believe that there were no strings attached then we would be pretty naive.
    The Arsenal BOD rejected the offer, we have no idea why but IMLHO the BOD have done a remarkable job of placing the club in one of the most envied positions in the EPL and their work should be commended and not condemned.

    All we have lacked in the past 7 seasons is silverware and it’s only those that have a need to boast that find that to be a problem. I would far prefer us to be a self sustaining club that maintains and improves it’s status rather than a fly by night club that is blown around by the whims of their owners.

    It should also be remembered that we have only won trophies in 23 of in the109 seasons that we have played.

  180. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Danish,
    With the addition of Podolski, and if we keep Robin, then we would be in very good shape indeed if we landed M’Vila.

  181. Red Arse says:

    Hi Herb,

    I read your Post with interest, and thought, at first, that you were going to give us a mature balanced appraisal of Arsenal’s recent past, at least from your personal point of view. This was reinforced by your opening comments;

    a) “we can only measure the good against the bad, which I shall attempt to do here, and allow people to reach their own conclusions.” and;
    b) “From the period between 1997 and 2004, Arsenal’s football was taken to a peerless level. We were devastatingly brilliant. A class apart”

    Unfortunately, altho’ you clearly stated in (a) your intentions to measure the good against the bad in writing the Post, it appears that the only ‘good’ thing you could find to say in the article, dramaticly phrased as it is, was the unexpected eulogy in (b).

    From there it was all downhill.

    You are entitled to your opinions, that goes without saying, and I respect you as a person who clearly wants what you see as the best for the club.

    The problem, as I am sure you would admit, is that you often, albeit unintentionally I suspect, tend to butt heads with many of the regulars on the site because you express what you perceive as simple opinions, on a number of matters, which are often seen by others as unsubstantiated and wrong headed statements of fact.
    This then gives rise to animosity, as we have seen above.

    In fairness, you seem to regret the resultant divide in the Arsenal fan base when you say, at the outset, that “Stubborn arguments rage amongst the Arsenal faithful, neither side willing to compromise their staunch ‘belief’, so they end up insulting each other.”

    These are 3 such ‘opinions/statements’, taken at random from your Post, which you must know are specious and sure to incite verbal conflict – not discussion – because they are not supported by any cogent or valid factual evidence – stubborn or otherwise.

    (1) I don’t care whose idea or project it was, it is my humble opinion that Highbury could have been re-structured to accommodate 60,000 fans, and we needn’t have been crippled with a stadium debt.
    [I note you have subsequently modified your opinion on this.]

    (2) Given how wide the gulf is between Arsenal and the top, at this moment in time, it has been an abject failure at every level.
    ['at this moment in time' - 'this abject failure' - resulted in us finishing 3rd.]

    (3) Arsene Wenger remains the only manager at a major club with absolutely no pressure to deliver success.
    [What do you base this 'opinion' on?]

    I do not expect replies to the one line addenda, of course, as they are simply illustrative.
    I hope you also understand that I am attempting to pay you and your Post due respect in replying at some length, rather than keeping my powder dry! :-)

    {BR, I noted recently that, like Kelsey, you have expressed an antipathy towards long winded yanks, especially those taking up 25% of the available blogging space, whatever that means (?) but this leopard is unable to change his spots – and does not want to – so are you suggesting maybe I need a new lair?}

  182. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Right, on Arsene.
    I have criticised him on here several times. Over substitutions, motivation and on players positions/roles, however, I cannot think of one manager I would prefer.
    People talk about the modern game and sugar daddies, but Chavs finished 6th. Cup games don’t count (until we win the CL :-) ), and finishing third was a monumental achievement given the shambles of the transfer window which I don’t believe had anything to do with Wenger.
    I do believe he has changed tack, and realised that experience counts. Just look at the effects of Benny and Arteta. Then he’s signed an experienced player in Podolski. To me, this is a sign of an intelligent person ie one who sees where mistakes have been made, and then addresses those mistakes.

  183. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb,
    I think this is an excellent post, and has prompted some great comments.
    I quite like gooner4life’s “we must attack the board” approach. Maybe seize the Directors Box or Storm The Car Park :-)

  184. LB says:

    Calm, calm, calm. I will try.

    Although, I proudly claim to be a fully paid up card carrying Wengerite, I do share Chary’s list of priorities which are: firstly I support the club, secondly I support the team and thirdly I support the manager and because of that…….oh what’s the point in trying to explain to someone who makes statements like: “Wenger no longer cares about the club”……..nah sod it, I stand by my original insult — Herb you are a miserable banned word.

    Shard’s comment made reading today’s comments worth it though.

  185. herbsarmy says:

    Hi RA,

    I hope you are in good health, you are clearly in good form regarding the written word.
    You can’t please all the people all the time.
    I honestly believe that our resources could and should have been used more intelligently, as you can see from the list of players I mentioned in my opening response. It is only an example, there are other players I’m sure many others could have named.
    How many other manager’s at a major football club would be allowed to go 7 years without winning silver-ware? And how many of the world’s top clubs have failed to win anything in that period?
    Football is meant to encompass a highly-competitive ethos, which Arsenal haven’t displayed in recent years.
    Guardiola won 13 trophies in four years, but such is the expectation at Barca, he felt compelled to leave because he didn’t win the title or CL. This is the first time since 1993, that Bayern Munich have gone two years without winning a trophy. What’s the longest period MU have gone without winning a trophy?
    It is that winning-mentality that defines a football club, something the current Arsenal squad haven’t been instilled with, so whose responsibility is it?

  186. goonerjake says:

    I think a major point is being missed regarding the board and Mr Wenger.

    Wenger- enjoys the role he has at the club, I have nothing but the upmost respect for him and want him to stay but he has too much power. (IN MY OPINION)

    The Board – Wenger spends little of the boards money, buys players cheap and sells them on for a huge profit making them money, wenger continues to get the club into the champions league again making them money, Wengers team more or less sells the ground out each and every week again…making the board money.

    Ask yourself this IF YOU WERE THE BOARD WOULD YOU SACK WENGER?

    Think about it! Think about it not as a supporter! Thats why demo’s will never work as long as wenger keeps doing what he is doing.

    To force the boards hand all fans would have to boycott matches however this would be SO wrong, always support the club

  187. dkgooner says:

    Have only read headline. Answer is, We don’t. Only God judges.

  188. herbsarmy says:

    Cheers Micky, good to see you. I don’t think the signing of Benayoun represents the significant ambition with which our club should be attributed, but he did ok.
    LB- Nowhere have I said that AW doesn’t care for the club, and if it’s your perception that I’m miserable, naturally you are entitled to your opinion.

  189. MickyDidIt89 says:

    If we look at this season and our weaknesses, then I would think that adding an additional goal threat (Podolski), stiffening the midfield with a top class DM (M’Vila?), not losing all FB’s through injury, adding some defensive organisation (Got No Hair) then I see no reason not to challenge for the title.
    We have two out of the three. Let’s see what happens. Add the third, then why couldn’t the same manager that got us to third push on from there?

  190. glic says:

    e va va vonne
    How do you know me so well ? , have you been speaking to Mrs glic ?. I`m immature beyond my years !. :lol:

  191. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb,
    Despite my jolly posturing, my entire family think I’m a miserable git :-)
    On Benny: I reckon Arsene was left in the lurch with about 20 seconds to find and sign someone. He did ok.

  192. glic says:

    Highbury was great and we accumulated so much history there, but personally, I love our new stadium so much more, just need some trophy`s to decorate it !.

  193. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Herb, my dear fellow. Your desire for Arsenal to succed is admirable, but it is this very same lust that makes you blinkered to your suroundings. You ask which major club would tolerate a manager who has won zilch for seven years but fail to ask which major clubs have had to move home and suffer financial constraints in the same period. You question the clubs ambition, But anybody who knows anything about the club knows that ambition and the strive for excellence is the embodiment of what the club is. Your questions about the move are not only answered from a financial point of view but also signify the ambition that the club has to be the best. Chelseas recent succes in europe has hurt you hasn’t it?, its hurt all of us but it does not take away from what Arsenal Football Club is and neither is it a stick to beat Arsene with. Have some more paitence my friend, ime sure you will be pleased with the outcome.

    Redders, how the devil are you?. In fine form i trust.

  194. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Happy Birthday GliC :-)

  195. herbsarmy says:

    Micky,
    I agree with your 6:32pm comment, but AW hasn’t been in the winner’s circle since 2005 FA Cup, and the last time we finished in the top two. My only concern regarding M’Vila is that we’ll be priced out, which has been an on-going theme for a few years now.

  196. jnyc says:

    Nice opinion by pat 7 also. Thats my optimistic view im hoping for a bit of help from ffp and new sponsorship deals. But i hope we show we mean business this summer. To show robin and other potential targets we are the place to be again.

  197. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Of course I loved Highbury and all the memories, but I realise we had to move and therefore into a modern rather soulless place. My beef is with the distance between fans and pitch at either end as well as the shallow gradient of the stands. I feel it could have been far more condusive to the atmosphere and much more intimidating to visitors.

  198. herbsarmy says:

    Hi Terry,
    Only if UEFA are serious about enforcing the FFP rules, and I’m sure there are plenty of loop-holes for the big clubs to escape.

  199. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb,
    How do you think Arsene would have done since the stadium move with a similar budget to Utd for example?

  200. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Arsenal is the place to be, and depite the criticisms, and we all have a pop now and again, we should be very proud of our Club.

    The questioning of Arsene wengers credential are simply ridiculous. Since the inception of the premeir league only 5 clubs have lifted the title. 3 are suger daddy clubs, the other is the richest club in the uk, and the 5th is Arsenal, managed by Arsene Wenger. He has done it 3 times and on one occasion his team was unbeaten. Since 2004, a new reality dawned. The stadium move and the suger daddies. Was Arsenal and Arsenes responce just to lay down and die?, of course not. Instead an intricate strategy of investment in youth, and an ethos of hard work driven by insatiable ambition to compete against the odds was emabked upon. Now we are in 2012, and the light at the end of the tunnel is becoming a tangible reality. I admire the club for its fight, ambition and ethos. Make no mistake, we cannot and will not fail. arsenal will be winning things very soon.

  201. OMG Aesenal says:

    Rasp….

    ¨It is a fact that we are all judged all the time.¨ ….NO that is not true…people judge us unfairly and negatively ALL the time but there are rare exceptions where we are judged, not necessarily by our peers, but at least by those we select to judge us (professional associations, our family and some friends) and whose judgement we trust to be fair because they know us and what we live. there are others who refrain from ALL judgement since they appreciate the complexity of the challenges we face and the inherent onerousness of judging others by ones standards.

    ¨ it would be easy to conclude as you have, that no-one has a right to judge – but they do have a right to an opinion¨ …I NEVER said that people don’t have a right to judge BUT they don’t have a right to judge without sufficient evidence to support their judgements. Opinions do not need factual proof but are not considered unfair judgements since an opinion is always qualified automatically by a caveat such as IMO, I could be wrong, it is just an opinion etc. On the other hand judgements are all too often stated categorically based on either false or non-existent information that is handed down like they are divinely inspired and infallible axioms.

    Herbsarmy feels that we missed the boat on many ¨ideal¨players but that is true of all Clubs and there is no certainty about winning the transfer battle at any time. I think he oversimplifies the transfer process and makes many assumptions that are neither valid nor justified under our Club’s past and present circumstances.

    For example he talks about Sven willing to deal for Micah Richards but would his agent have agreed, would Richards have wanted to come to Arsenal, would AW have felt he would fit into the team and the AFC philosophy and that he could be coached in the Arsenal ¨way¨, was the price right and the cost in compensation and other fees been acceptable, etc. I know we spent some silly money on less than sterling players but so did every other club, including the Mancunian Clubs and Chelsea, the Spuds and especially Liverpool.

    The real concern should be what ¨bang for the buck¨ we got and will get by maintaining Wenger’s policy of controlled, frugal spending and youth development to produce stars. So far, in my humble opinion, we have had far more return on our investment than most other EPL Clubs and when I see a buy like Podolski, who I watched in Germany for two years, and see the OX, Wilshere and Szcesny, it strikes me as unfair to continually criticize LeProf based on spurious hindsight and even more dubious ¨what if¨ scenarios. It is as it is and we not only have survived but thrived since 2005 given so many negative factors that were out of our control and still are.

  202. herbsarmy says:

    Micky,
    difficult to gauge. After we won the ‘Double’ in 1998, they responded the next year by going one better and winning the CL.
    It’s made more difficult because many would argue that whilst AW is a more principled man than SAF, he doesn’t have the same ability in terms of managing a successful football club.

  203. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Herb, you are contradicting yourself again. You cannot on the one hand castigate Arsene Wenger and then on the other openly admit that FFP will make everything alright again. You have just unwittingly accepted that Arsene has been working against the odds.

  204. Rasp says:

    Oh dear OMG, you’ve really gone off on one haven’t you :(

    We are judged all the time whether you like it or not.

    It is ludicrous to suggest we should all be able to choose who judges us “but at least by those we select to judge us”

    What you consider to be judgmental and therefore inadmissible is simply opinion and as long as I have input on AA, there will be no censorship on the grounds of disagreement over opinions.

    The point I was making was that anyone – and I mean anyone who comes on this site and suggests that we have no right to debate any topic (as long as it is done with respect and falls within the law) is on the wrong site.

    Herb is entitled to his opinion and he is entitled to air that opinion on this site – the same opportunity is extended to you and everyone else who conforms with our very simple site rules.

  205. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Herb, if you dont start agreeing with me i will have no choice but to issue the ultimate threat that i shall recite Lady Gaga songs directly at you everytime you blog. hahaha

  206. herbsarmy says:

    Terry, I think my list of players stands up as a testament that our resources could have been used better. And even if you remove Micah Richards, Kyle Walker was available from Sheffield Utd, so even though I concede that AW has had serious financial restraints, he hasn’t made the best of what he has had at his disposal.
    I don’t admit that FFP will make everything right, as I said there will be enough loop-holes for clubs to avoid serious sanctions. Arsenal’s chosen path is gambling on FFP being fully implemented, and we won’t know that for at least two years, maybe longer.

  207. neamman says:

    Good post Herb. I disagree with 95% but thats your opinion and it was reasonably well argued.

  208. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    OMG, sorry mate, ime not a buhdist monk. If i cant pass judgement on things then what am i supposed to do? Embark on a vow of silence, lie back down and contemplate the esoterical wonderfulness of the universe or what?

  209. goonerjake says:

    What a good debate!

  210. glic says:

    When Lady Gaga was a baby, was she called Gaga goo goo, or goo goo Gaga ?. Serious question ( I now have my serious face on ).
    ps , thanks for all the happy birthday `s and for those who didn`t, I have one thing to say, ….. Ner ner ner ner ner ! and if I knew how to write blowing a raspberry with my tounge out I would, so you`ll just have to visualise it !.

  211. Rasp says:

    Hi herb, like you, I only really have knowledge of Arsenal’s transfers – be them successful or a failure. I’m pretty sure that if we had the same information about other clubs and compared them with AW’s track record, he would come pretty close to the top of the list.

    It’s impossible to get it right every time and with young players you are always taking a gamble that their potential may never be realised.

  212. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Herb, your contradiction does not come from wether you believe FFP will work or not, it stems from the fact that you propose that if it did then everything would be ok. reading through your posts it is obvious that this what you imply. Anyway, ime off to practice my Lady Gaga for you. and if you continue to disagree with me i shall hit you with some Barry Manilow as well. hahahhaha.

  213. Rasp says:

    OMG, my comment @ 7:07 re your @ 6:58 was in relation to your first two paragraphs. I am in broad agreement with the points you make in the following paragraphs..

  214. GunnerN5 says:

    It may surprise a few people to know that we are not only more successful financially at the Emirates we are also more successful on the field of play.

    Here are our EPL stats, for home games, from both the Highbury and the Emirates.

    From left to right = % Games won, % Games tied, % Games lost
    Goals for per game, Goals against per game, Winning %

    Highbury = 62.5% – 24.3% – 13.2% -1.97 – .83 – 70.6%,
    Emirates = 65.8% – 22.8% – 11.4% – 2.03 – .79 – 73.4%

    We are fortunate enough to have the best stadium in the EPL and it has become our new FORTRESS.

  215. herbsarmy says:

    Thanks Neamman, it’s ok to disagree, it’s only through debate that we learn. I’ve been shot down many many times on here, but ultimately I think we all undoubtedly want our club to be successful.
    It’s the journey to that success which has a lot of us at odds.

  216. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Go on Transplant, Englingberthumpledink him!

  217. herbsarmy says:

    I’m not implying that everything will magically fall into place if FFP rules are implemented Terry, our whole footballing philosophy is flawed as results against the likes of QPR, Wigan, Norwich, Fulham and Swansea testify. We’ve had those same performances for a few seasons now, so it’s more than just coincidence.

  218. Nore guna says:

    Ur so on point wt evry point u made abve.wenger n d board’s ambition is only centerd on profit actualisation,they are nt cncernd wt if d team wins a trophy n ds hs mde asenal d laughn stock of d epl.plz dnt gv me dat crap abt hw moving to emirates hs afectd our on field suces cs juventus movd2 a new stadium last season n won d legue title.d bottomline is dat d desire2 b sucesful as a footbalin team is lost@d arsenal.

  219. MickyDidIt89 says:

    It always amazes me when people assume the the Board and Wenger are as one when it comes to transfer dealings.

  220. TotalArsenal says:

    Herb wrote: ‘How many other manager’s at a major football club would be allowed to go 7 years without winning silver-ware? And how many of the world’s top clubs have failed to win anything in that period?’.

    You are always so selective when you compare our club – always take the most negative angle:

    Ajax and Milan did not win the title for seven years in a row – till they did so last year. Madrid has not won the CL for ten years now, and won their first title in four years this year.

  221. Big Raddy says:

    RA. You have misunderstood me. I enjoy your long winded comments.

  222. herbsarmy says:

    Total,
    didn’t Real Madrid take decisive action to change that losing run? Milan won CL in 2007 against Liverpool.

  223. goonermichael says:

    TA
    rednose took 7 years to win the title. herb would have sacked him before he won anything with us.

  224. herbsarmy says:

    GM,
    because he had to unload the dross he inherited from Ron Atkinson. He won a European trophy before he won the PL. He even won a European trophy with Aberdeen in 1983.

  225. LB says:

    Hurrah for Sir Alex

  226. glic says:

    Herb
    I dont agree with much you say.
    Saying that, your post and comments are always well written and you give a good account of yourself, you stand your corner well, you never lower yourself to any abusive behaviour and you have made a great debate on here today, so well done.
    However, If change your name to Herbs Barmy and you will get less abuse and they will think your mad instead !. :)

  227. herbsarmy says:

    And he accepted the Arsenal job in 1986, LB!

  228. Big Raddy says:

    So Rodgers goes to Liverpool. So much for loyalty, he could have waited a season.

  229. TotalArsenal says:

    Which decisive action did Real take Herb? Borrowing hundreds of millions of Euros and buy anybody they can. Well despite all of that, they got one national title for it and no CL-cup now for ten years.

    Milan did not win the national title for seven years. Winning a cup competition is not the same as luck can play a big role. How you can use Chelsea’s incredible run of luck in the CL as a stick to beat up Arsene is beyond me. I also really disliked your comparison between Drogba and Henry this afternoon. I have never know an Arsenal supporter who would do that.

    In fact, I have never known an Arsenal supporter who takes such a negative angle on absolutely anything Arsenal – as in the last seven years. Luckily today a lot of bloggers have come out to argue with both their hearts and brains against your points of view. I wont change you one iota, but it is good to see so many Gooners with a positive and yet realistic points of view, so many Gooners who do not believe the grass is so much greener on the other side. For that I thank you.

  230. herbsarmy says:

    If you find my comments distasteful, Total, spend an hour or so reading Le Grove,

  231. herbsarmy says:

    Real Madrid and Barca have always conducted their business that way, as well as negotiating their own TV deals. The decisive action they took was to appoint a winning manager, a concept unfamiliar with you?
    And why is it so unfair to compare Thierry Henry and Drogba? They’re both strikers.

  232. herbsarmy says:

    What about comparing Arsenal’s 10-man performance against Barcelona in 2006 to Chelsea’s 10-man performance in Camp Nou this year, is that an unfair comparison as well?

  233. Big Raddy says:

    Herb. Surely you agree taht Chelsea’s win in Barca was just luck. A missed Messi penalty, hitting the woodwork 4 times makes Barca beyond unlucky. As to the final, I cannot ever recall a less deserving winner.

    TH14 v Drogba? Both fine players but TH14 is an artist, Drogba is a battering ram.

  234. TotalArsenal says:

    Herb, Le Grove? Do you compare yourself to that lot?

    Henry is one of our all time heroes – to say that he fluffed his lines in the CL final and Drogba did not, is something only you would say – it is what you are trying to say between the lines that is so derogatory, so disrespectful. It boils my blood.

    Your decisive action is to replace Wenger with Lambert – I rest my case. Wenger is a winning coach and you saying he is under no pressure is the least perceptive thing you have said all day.

    Chelsea’s performance at the Nou Camp was nothing special and fully based on luck and cowardice, ours was that of heroes. Why would you, as an Arsenal supporter, use Chelsea’s performance as something to hit our club with? What was so great about it? Do you want Arsenal now to be like Chelsea, the way you wanted us to be like MU a few months ago (when it still looked like they were going to win the league)?

  235. herbsarmy says:

    Yes they got lucky BR, but you make your own luck. Had Henry scored when he was clean through on 70 mins in Paris, instead of tamely passing it back to their Keeper, we’d have been 2-0 up, and I’d have fancied our chances from there. For all Drogba’s ridiculous play-acting, what it did was upset Barcelona’s rhythm and stopped them getting any real movement going. They also scored 2 away goals with 10-men after trailing 2-0. Would we have had the bottle to do that?

  236. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Alright, youve asked for it Herb. Barry Manilows- Mandy (Herbie)

    Ohhh Herbie
    You came with such negativity
    That i sent you away, ohhh Herbie

    Ohhh Herbie
    That didnt stop your groaning
    You just idolised Red Nosed Fergie, ohhhhh Herbie

    Ohhh Herbie
    You want the Champions League
    but we wont get it your way, ohhhh Herbie.

    Ohhh Herbie
    When the time is right, it will all become so clear
    we will win the league next year, ohhhhhh Herbie

    Herb, agree with me, or you will feel the wrath of Shaking Stevens next.

  237. goonermichael says:

    The problem is herb that we are shit, wenger is shit but chelsea, drogba and ferguson are all so fucking good. I swear because todays post was a legrove post and you are saying everything possible to big up drogba, ferguson and the chavs. Henry should have play acted and dived to upset the catalans as he didn’t put his chance away.

    You sound much more like a chelsea or a manc fan. You also need to move on. Still being bitter that we never got ferguson is so sad and says a lot about you. This type of bollocks is exactly why I stopped going on legrove.

  238. herbsarmy says:

    No Total, I don’t compare myself with anyone, just trying to show you a bit of perspective. They are far less complimentary of our manager than me.
    I’m not using Chelsea’s performance to beat the club with, the point I’m making is the hunger and determination to get the job done, something I haven’t seen in Arsenal for a while.
    Yes Henry is a club legend, but one of the main criticisms of him was that he never delivered on the ‘big’ occasion, not for Arsenal or for France. Sometimes you have to remove emotional attachment when you do an honest appraisal.
    AW hasn’t been a winner for seven years. Paul Lambert is a young ambitious manager who led Norwich to two successive promotions as well as a respectable finish in the PL. One day he will leave for a bigger club. Did he look out of his depth when he came to The Emirates and left with a 3-3 draw? AW is 62, and looks older than Ferguson!
    I’ve been supporting Arsenal over 40 years, and will take no lessons from you on how to support my club. If you don’t like it, don’t inter-act, I don’t recall asking you for advice.

  239. TotalArsenal says:

    OMG Aesenal and Rasp, I really enjoyed your discussions today. Top stuff.

    RA, your comment today was great – very perceptive.

    Gn5, thanks for the stats: we are indeed a FORTRESS. I also liked your paragraph:

    ‘All we have lacked in the past 7 seasons is silverware and it’s only those that have a need to boast that find that to be a problem. I would far prefer us to be a self sustaining club that maintains and improves it’s status rather than a fly by night club that is blown around by the whims of their owners.’

  240. herbsarmy says:

    The word you are looking for GM, is disappointed.
    I don’t idolise Ferguson, but he is a better, more successful manager than the one we’ve got. Is that clear enough for you!

  241. goonerjake says:

    Good to hear diversity of opinion. Love it all (except for profanity, lets keep it to terraces please!)

    Its all good diversity of opinion is inevitable with such a large demographic within a fan base as large as the arsenal. The key is respecting other gooners regardless of our own opinions.

    Victoria Concordia Cresit (Victory Through Harmony)

    Sorry if i said it before but after reading some comments I think we are forgetting it today. :)

  242. TotalArsenal says:

    When did I give you advice Herb?

    You might support Arsenal but you have nothing but criticism about our beloved club – everything seems to be better at other clubs and you are very selective in your argumentations/use of examples, as many have pointed out to you today. I am challenging you on that, and I wont let you stop me doing that.

  243. herbsarmy says:

    I don’t like the way our club is being run, and I don’t like the ‘Americanisation’ re-branding. You are an AW die-hard, I happen to think his best days are behind him, that is what I am criticising.
    Tell me what happened against Fulham, or Swansea, QPR, Wolves, Wigan, or Norwich.

  244. SharkeySure'sGhost says:

    Ok, I’ve only gotten as far as GM’s (very long for him) post at 11.38, but I’ll catch up poon the rst to9morrow.

    GoonerPerspective 11.23 – Legend.

    (Speedy?)OzG at 11.29…it took me longer than 6 mins to read, but worth every min….unlike something else I read today (!)

    GM. More long posts please….you were spot on with almost every point you made. Expand a listed building…lol.

    Chary – I vaguely remember something about ‘dry cleaning’, and that it was very clever (?!), but I’m completely stumped about the content, or even the title. I’m only 45 !!

    Various – great to see the sterling defence of Reyes. He was quality…no ifs or buts. In his last 6-9mths (?) he suffered some awful luck in front of goal. But, before his head was turned, he was top top quality. Yep, the Boro game was one of his best. He really could have gone on to be a great great player had he stayed with us.

    Night

  245. GunnerN5 says:

    Herb,

    What happened to Man U against Wigan, Blackburn and Everton.
    Do you think that Rudolph has lost the plot?

  246. herbsarmy says:

    While your at it, tell me why so many of our performances lack any urgency or desire, and how the same players can be brilliant one week and shockingly poor the next. Or why 11 years after getting thrashed 6-1 at OT, the same manager sends out a team that gets totally humiliated, and suffers our worst defeat for 115 years? You must have loads of opinions on that.

  247. goonermichael says:

    herb there are sexier, more attractive women than my wife but I’m over the fact that I’m not married to them and happy that I’m with who I’m with.

    If you think Wenger looks older than rednose you need to go to specsavers. rednose looks exactly like my dad (who died a hopeless alcoholic)

  248. Shard says:

    herbsarmy

    The same thing that happened to Manu against Blackburn, Everton, Wigan, and would have happened much more if not for some help along the way.

    The Americanistaion… is just another way to say the club is getting too big for the traditional fans’ pockets.. Kind of how rock bands making videos with mtv were taken to have ‘sold out’. Wenger could have done better all these years. When is that not true of anybody? I wonder if you would have noticed Drogba’s DESIRE so much if Robben had converted his penalty and Bayern won the trophy.. Ultimately.. It’s easy to criticise Arsenal because a) we’re different..and b) we haven’t won a shiny silver cup. That’s all it is.. I’m reminded of the comment by one of the members of the magnificent Magyars of the 54 World Cup, who talking about their defeat in the final to Germany, aided by some strange refereeing decisions said “Losing can never be explained, and winning doesn’t have to be” (rough translation) So go ahead.. Ferguson is the bees knees because he has the medals and the trophies and the loving media on his side.Wenger does NOT look older than old rednose, he’s just under more pressure.. Unlike what you claim. Success is relative. What did Ferguson win this year? When some other top club builds a stadium worth nearly 400m of their own money, and faces shit decisions like Arsenal have over the last few years..and still manages to win trophies..then you can say Wenger didn’t do as well as xyz.. Even then.. I would rather give credit to that team, and that manager rather than use their success as somehow showing our failure.. We have plenty bottle (enough for AW to throw around as well :) ) That isn’t really our problem.. And we do have some problems.. None of those are fatal..or we’d have been out of the CL long before now like everyone’s been predicting for 5 years.

  249. herbsarmy says:

    GunnerN5,
    They lost the title on GD against the Billionaire Sheiks, and still finished 19 points ahead of us.

  250. GunnerN5 says:

    Herb;

    You miss the whole point – they were POTLESS and to you that is an inexcusable sin.

  251. goonermichael says:

    They couldn’t get out of the weakest cl group and only beat a team that lost all it’s matches. If it wasn’t for diving and refs the title would have gone to city long before the last game.

    You’re defending them when most manu fans think they are rubbish.

  252. herbsarmy says:

    Hi Shard,
    apart from 2006, would you say we’ve been a major force in the CL?
    Chelsea have been in 6 semi-finals and 2 finals in 9 years. In our 15 years we’ve had 2 semi-finals, and 1 final.

  253. goonermichael says:

    herb They have all happened since they were bought by a sugar daddy. You may have noticed but we don’t have one. We have a big shiny new stadium (like the one that they want). that we’ve paid for withoit oil money.

  254. herbsarmy says:

    No, GunnerN5, it is not an inexcusable sin to be potless, what is inexcusable is lacking the hunger or desire to fight for the right to win those pots. Or lacking the ability to affect change when we’re losing.

  255. herbsarmy says:

    We only have two Billionaires GM, how poor are we!

  256. Shard says:

    Before Wenger got here, we weren’t in the CL.. Our UEFA ranking has risen from what was it 38? 42? to I think 6 now.. We have been a consistent force in the CL.. What does comparing Arsenal with Chelsea have to do with anything? Another club’s success does not equate our failure.. and like I said.. We should have been in the semi final at least in 2008.. and gone past Barcelona 2 seasons ago.. To which you’ll say Chelsea should have won against Liverpool and against Barcelona (though they shouldn’t have beaten Barcelona before that) Great..Chelsea did well in the CL.. They were also within a billionaire’s appearance away from going into oblivion.. Would you like to take that risk with Arsenal? I wouldn’t.. Navel gazing can be done both ways.

  257. goonermichael says:

  258. mystic says:

    @GunnerN5
    Like you I am not sure that the strings that Usmanov apparently attached to his money offer were worth chancing, but as i have said it is not that Arsenal CAN’T compete, but that they CHOOSE not too.

    To all those chomping at the bit that Arsenal have not won the title since 2003-2004, it is worth noting that:

    It has been 8 seasom since last winning the title;

    On average Arsenal have won the title every 8.4 seasons – based on winning 13 titles in the 109 seasons of playing (football stopped for the world wars) ;

    Since formation in 1886, Arsenal have, on average, won the title every 9.6 seasons (i.e. break for world wars not taken in to account).

    8 seasons really isn’t excessive when put into the context of history.

  259. goonermichael says:

    They are not throwing thier money at the club though are they? You know exactly what I meant so why make that comment? Abramovitch has spen almost a billion pounds of his own money to get the chavs where they are. OUR club has been self sustaining.

  260. herbsarmy says:

    Terry,
    OK, I agree with you. please, no more Manilow!

  261. herbsarmy says:

    And unless FFP kicks in GM, our self-sustaining model will leave us even further adrift (as heard from 5Live).

  262. goonermichael says:

    funny enough herb the mancs are now saying the same. ferguson is advocating ffp as even though they are so much further down the “americanisation” route they can’t compete anymore.

  263. TotalArsenal says:

    Herb, I must try harder to respect your positioning more, even though it is pretty much the opposite of mine.

    I have huge respect for Wenger, who has produced the best football I have seen in this country in the last 20 years or so. He is not perfect, but he is totally committed, passionate, stubborn, loyal, principled, visionary, and his love and hunger for beautiful/successful football is second to none.

    I will challenge you back sometimes on comments you make about him, his players or the club that I don’t agree with. I must admit there is a negative undertone in your comments that often gets the worst out of me. For that I apologise: I should be more philosophical at times.

    But I am going to leave it with that. Let’s, once again, agree to disagree on virtually everything.

    As Wenger is going to stay for at least another season, if not many more, I hope you can find some piece of mind with the given situation. Take care Herb. :)

  264. Well done Herb, your post really got people talking which I know was what you wanted. 265 comments and over 4,000 hits makes it the most active post in the last 10 days.

    We’ve had opinions from both ends of the scale which have led to some great comments. Some of it has been uncomfortable to read but opinions are there to be aired and it would be very boring if we all thought exactly the same.

  265. Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts Total, and if Arsene and Arsenal achieve success we will all universally rejoice, because more than anything else, it will be a victory for football.
    Debating and challenging people’s different footballing philosophies is no bad thing, and I bear no grudges where that’s concerned.
    You are an intelligent blogger, and I respect your right to express your opinions, even if I don’t always agree.
    Take care yourself and thanks for your valid contributions.

  266. herbsarmy says:

    Sorry Total, my computer went mad and logged me out without informing me!

  267. herbsarmy says:

    Hi Peaches,
    It was always going to be a ‘hot potato’ of a subject that splits fans down the middle.
    If it wasn’t for you, Rasp, and your admin team none of this would have been possible, so a big thank-you goes out to you and your first-class team too!

  268. goonermichael says:

    Does anyone think Robin will go to barca?

  269. Rob Lucci says:

    Herb,

    rednose is better than wenger?

    Dorgba is better than Henry?

    The most unpleasant thing about this post is that you think you were argumentative, but you were clearly not, you were just being negative.

    Rednose? He was the first reason why I chose Arsenal instead of the Mancs as my boyhood club.

    Rednose? Seriously?

    I mean, Red nose? Alex Ferguson? Sir Alex Ferguson?

    and Drogba?

    Seriously?

    I believe you just compared a dogshit with coklat bar.

  270. herbsarmy says:

    Rob Lucci,
    Do I really have to repeat myself! SAF accepted the Arsenal job in 1986. He has won 2 CL, 2 Cup Winners Cups (1 in Scotland, a country that in the whole history of European competition has produced only 3 winning clubs, Celtic-European Cup, 1967: Rangers- CWC, 1972, Aberdeen- CWC 1983). His Aberdeen side beat Real Madrid 2-1 in the final, and they won the European Super Cup too. As well as breaking up the Old Firm dominance in Scotland, he has won 12 PL titles.
    For the impact that the two individual players had at their respective clubs (Drogba CL winner, Henry CL runner-up)..

  271. Gooner In Exile says:

    I’ve had a tough day and settled down to read this post, just got thru the comments.

    I see the same old argument has been bashed around again, I see the same old stories being smashed into anyone who won’t listen, I see the same lack of constructive criticism as I always see.

    Yes it’s another day when Herb throws his toys out of the pram and says “why can’t I have what the other kids have mummy?”

    I’m not even going to bother with the content of the post because it is simply too easy to pull apart, from stadium move to apparent lack of desire. If we really had a lack of desire in the team, does TV5 make the run and score the goal in the 93rd minute to beat Toon?

    I have seen nothing new in any comments from Herb all day, apart from an admission he might be a tad wrong on the stadium move.

    He may also want to reconsider the most expensive tickets argument, Chelsea has been more expensive than us or years, but you focus on the negative so the top price tickets, and ignore the fact that around 25000 fans get into the Emirates for less than the cheapest seat at the Bridge.

    As for asking for money from Kroenke and Usmanov, why all of a sudden should Arsenal need to do this, we’ve never needed it before from our owners.

    We live within our means it’s honourable.

    Lets just hope Herbs got it all off his chest now, if not I can only hope he phones Adrian Durham as it may well cause him to orgasm live on air to have someone agreeing with every word he has uttered. Let’s see if Herb can now live and comment in the now rather than use the wonder of hindsight to suggest which players we should have bought and which manager we should have signed. I am so interminably bored by the whole argument.

  272. weedonald says:

    Rasp….

    We are judged all the time whether you like it or not….Just my point…that doesn’t mean its right or justified…your attitude is that we bend over and accept other’s judging us just because they can do it?

    It is ludicrous to suggest we should all be able to choose who judges us “but at least by those we select to judge us”…NO it isn’t ludicrous…what is ludicrous is that you feel any of us have earned some right to judge Wenger just because we can.

    What you consider to be judgmental and therefore inadmissible is simply opinion and as long as I have input on AA, there will be no censorship on the grounds of disagreement over opinions….Did I ever suggest censorship? That is your twisted take on my initial remonstrations about those who are unqualified to judge Wenger still wanting to do so.

    The point I was making was that anyone – and I mean anyone who comes on this site and suggests that we have no right to debate any topic (as long as it is done with respect and falls within the law) is on the wrong site….Did I ever say that posters on this site have no right to debate? You have totally missed the point of my initial post and for some strange reason feel you are the defender of all things lawful on this site yet you break your own rules. Your statement is absolutely rubbish since I NEVER argued against open debate but I did condemn judgemental and negativisitc rants like Herbsarmy’s post….as have 99% of the posted rebuttals so maybe this isn’t the site for you mate?

    Herb is entitled to his opinion and he is entitled to air that opinion on this site – the same opportunity is extended to you and everyone else who conforms with our very simple site rules…..Was it simply Herb’s opinion (which I have no trouble with) or his Cry to Judge AND condemn a man who he has villified with suprious and unfounded hyperbole and exaggerated, twisted, very selective bias? I hasve conformed 100% to the rules of this site but you failed to respect one…read notjust the letter but the spirit of the posts.

  273. herbsarmy says:

    To all AA’ers,
    I’m not going to apologise for having my own opinions, though admittedly for reasons beyond my control, I am a glass half-empty man. I’ve never been one to ‘follow the crowd’ or cosy-up to people just to gain popularity, I have no time for vanity It’s always more difficult to go against the grain of popular choice.
    However, having said that, I will apologise to any fellow Arsenal supporter who might have been offended by this article, because that was never the intention.
    Arsene Wenger is our club manager, and as long as that is the case, he and the club have my complete and unconditional support.
    I hope each and every one of you has a great summer, and with the arrival of a new season in August, hope always springs eternal.

  274. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb,
    I think you put up a superb fight, and can’t for the life of me understand how people can get so hot under the collar if they disagree with a polite lunatic who thinks there’s any merit in Ferguson :-)
    I am not having a go at you here, but I do think GM’s comment is fair when he says you would have fired SAFfor going seven trophyless years :-)
    Some people simply cannot take any criticism whatsoever of Arsene, and to my mind, that’s equally LeGrovey in blinkerness.
    Anyhow, fear not, I have good feelings about the window.

  275. RockyLives says:

    Wow

    I’m in LA so I’m extremely late getting on.

    Herb congratulations on stimulating some fantastic comments, both in support and in opposition to your headline post.

    You won’t be surprised to know that I feel quite differently to you on most of your points (although you also raise one or two questions about AW that also trouble me).

    Nevertheless, I think this has been, for the most part, an excellent and passionate day’s blogging on AA.

    BUT…. More importantly…
    I am thrilled to discover that I am younger than both GLiC and GM (just) :D

  276. 26may1989 says:

    Hello friends and greetings from an unsurprisingly glum Brussels.

    Thanks to Herb (the nemesis of any Wenger loyalist!) for such a detailed post (and apologies, I haven’t read the ensuing debate). Partly because in the past you and I have traded points on pretty much everything you say now, and partly because once I get into it, I would want to set out one of my typically verbose rebuttals – which does no-one any favours at breakfast time – I won’t respond to all of your arguments. Let’s just say we disagree on most things!

    As far as the headline question (when do we judge Arsène Wenger?) is concerned, I would say all the time and from 1996. Fans have every right to judge the way their club is being managed, especially on the playing side. And in my opinion, taken in context (and that is a critical factor, one that is usually omitted), the man has done fantastic work, including (and arguably especially) in this fabled trophy drought. I have no doubts that we would be much, much worse off without Wenger, and I’ll always be grateful to him for being so loyal to us at a stage, when the club decided to finance a new stadium, that he could easily have walked out for more money, a bigger transfer budget and more glory.

    But it’s not all sweetness and light, there are aspects of the way things are at the club, as to what happens on the pitch, that cause concern. I have an idea or two for posts on those topics, so if/when I get time, I’ll share some of my non-insights.

    So, is Arsène Wenger still getting more right than he gets wrong? Comfortably, yes. But he still gets some things wrong.

  277. Big Raddy says:

    26. Beautifully put. Exactly what I would like to have said.

    Morning Micky.

    Herb. Thank you for provoking an interesting days blogging.

  278. MickyDidIt89 says:

    26,
    Moules Frittes :-)

  279. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Herb,
    I do like 26’s last line.
    I think that a simple survey like “In which area do you think Arsene 2012 could be even slightly improved, would find very few of even the staunchest Wengerman heading to Box 5.

    1. Tactics Bollocks
    2. Motivation
    3. Choice of socks
    4. Training
    5. Nothing whatsoever

  280. evonne says:

    GiE @ 2:49 – phone call to Adrian Durham!!! Honestly!! I am still laugingh at Kenny Daglish lying naked in the central circle

    RvP’s – mother and wife told him that Arsenal have been good to him and he should not be even considering other clubs.

    Hazard – he admires Gervinho

  281. evonne says:

    GM @ 10:43 – ‘There are sexier, more attractive women than my wife. But I’m over the fact that I’m not married to them and happy that I’m with who I’m with’

    Beautiful.

  282. Big Raddy says:

    Adding to Micky’s list

    6. Substitutions
    7. Transfers

  283. Rasp says:

    weedonald, I presume you are also OMG,

    I’m bored with this so let me put it less politely since you are obviously more interested in semantics than content. The continued theme of your comments aimed at Herb was that he had no right to be expressing his opinions. I defended his right as is my right and if you don’t like the way we do things on here I suggest you go and set up your own site – and then others can judge your efforts. I am happy with the way we do things on AA, no-one is forcing you to come on.

  284. evonne says:

    8. Physio staff
    9. Diving drills

  285. Rasp says:

    Herb’s post has stimulated the most lively debate we’ve had in weeks and I can see that many have enjoyed the challenge of disagreeing with him politely :lol: Thanks to the experienced regular bloggers who have responded with humour and patience and in doing so prevented the debate from descending into a slanging match.

  286. MickyDidIt89 says:

    BR,
    I put Sustitutions under “tactics bollocks” and transfers I still feel has too much to do with the board and Mr Laws.
    Evonne,
    9. Scuba!!! Eh? :-)

  287. evonne says:

    Micky – of course! We need to improve our chances of winning the CL. Good enough for Chavs, good enough for us? Errrr, perhaps not

  288. Rasp says:

    26may, re your comment @ 7:34 …… thank goodness you didn’t join us at the start of the debate as you have encapsulated the situation brilliantly in that one comment….. I can see why you are so successful in your chosen field

  289. Rasp says:

    ……… New post ………

  290. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    “At Highbury we watched Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Bergkamp, Overmars, Ljungberg, Romford Pele, Wiltord, Pires, Henry, at The Emirates now it’s Song, Arteta, Ramsey, Rosicky, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamakh and RvP. With the exception of RvP, it is a huge drop in quality. Self-sustainability is all very noble and amicable, but it removes the teeth of competitiveness.”

    You also watched a fair few duds @ Highbury over the years in the 60’s, mid to late 70’s, most of the 80’s. Not to mention pre 30’s :)

  291. Red Arse says:

    Good Morning, good people, :-)

    Rasper, can I say that on re-reading your conversation with OMG, that I am concerned there has been a misunderstanding of terminology, that is causing unnecessary angst.

    My understanding is that you were quite rightly stating the site’s position that all opinion is welcome, provided it is done civilly and without rancour or insult.

    OMG/WeeDon, does not seem to have disputed the site view.
    The way I read it is that he felt that some of the chat was expressed in a way he took as unsubstantiated and unacceptable ‘fact’ and not as simply the author’s opinions.

    Those of us who have had previous discussions with Herb realize that sometimes fact and opinion can become intertwined when he is facing up to a fairly hostile challenge. To me, this is only a matter of presentation. The rules do not require good spelling, syntax or presentational skills. Otherwise I would not be allowed on! :-)

    Can I suggest that the solution is for OMG to stay as an AAer but to cut Herb some slack, and also to recognize that as Site Administrator you are only trying to ensure the site rules are adhered to.

    In return, perhaps you can do likewise and cut OMG some slack too, rather than tell him to take a hike — however politely you have phrased it. :-)

    It would be a pity to lose OMG’s contribution to AA as he is very articulate and knowledgeable.
    As recompense, perhaps he could write a Post for us, and learn the perils and the pleasure of exposing his essay to a receptive, but sometimes hostile audience.

    Win, win, for all? :-)

  292. Rasp says:

    Hi RA and thanks,

    OMG/weedonald has contributed some very good comments over the last few days, he is still free to contribute to the site. As I said earlier, I’m too busy to get caught up in semantics.

    Peaches and I have literally spent the last month having to deal with bloggers who are not happy with the way we run the site (for them!) and so my patience has run thin.

    We struggle to put out a post some days and then have to fend off criticism of its content because people have not taken the trouble to understand how the site is run and what our objectives are.

    I have put a new tab at the top of the page ‘Get a Blog’, I suggest all those that don’t like the way we do things have a read and maybe they’ll find a way to satisfy their personal requirements.

  293. OMG Aesenal says:

    Rasp……..I am indeed both but have been called worse names!

    Sorry if you’re bored….you bore easily apparently. Why do you have to less polite with me? Is courtesy something that you only offer people who agree with you?
    I am much more interested in equal opportunity to express an opinion (not a judgement) and it is cheap and demeaning to accuse me of playing word games when it’s you who choose to diss my opinion and defend another poster’s right to have an opinion at the same time..
    The continued theme of my comments aimed at Herb and any other poster was and is that he had every right to be expressing his opinions BUT supporting them with well reasoned arguments and some factual information would increase his credibility significantly.
    I am defending my right to post counter-opinions and to ask for clarifications about statements that appear spurious. You telling me to bugger off because you have taken umbrage at my effrontery to question Herbsarmy and you is again arbitrary, counter-productive, unfair and smacks of condescension…..but I will continue to post here and might even write an article for your fantastic readers!

  294. OMG Aesenal says:

    Herbsarmy…….I fail to understand why you feel the need to apologise to any Gooner offended by what you had to say. Some may not agree with your opinions (I am one) but any reasonable Gooner respects your right to express them and to defend them, if you can. I am a glass half-full guy and feel vindicated somewhat after the comeback this season, despite the fact that many express a feeling of disappointment at not winning silverware for the 7th straight season.
    I do not follow the crowd, either AAA or WKB, but fall in between, needing more than someone’s heartfelt but totally subjective faith to accept statements from Gooners, of either ilk but also willing to give the leaders of our Club the benefit of the doubt since I can never know what the reality is 100% of the time.
    Keep up the challenging of the status quo, it is needed and, by the results on this site, is welcomed as well. We are, after all is said and done, true supporters and Gooners:))

  295. OMG Aesenal says:

    Rasp…just read your latest post and agree that it is more fair-minded than previous ones. I write for a number of blogs( UA, LadyArse, etc.) and enjoy the verbal sparring with fellow Gooners and the occasional Spud who washes up on an Arsenal website like flotsam rejected by the Football ocean. If you want an article, I’m happy to provide one…just let me know.

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