(Future) Captain Jack Will Get Me High Tonight

There is something about Jack that makes me smile every time I see him play football. So much so that I think he is possibly the most exciting talent that we have developed at Arsenal, and perhaps the best player we have ever produced.

jack

I’ll go one further I think he could go on to be Arsenal’s greatest ever player, bought or produced, and one further still the greatest player England has ever seen.

Big and bold claims I know, and I also realise that there is a long way to go before he fulfils the above prediction, but i’d say he has had a pretty good start in achieving it.

The only player in recent memory that gave similar levels of excitement was Cesc Fabregas, but lets be honest here, he came through when the first team had a far greater talent pool than the current crop that Jack has to work with, he was helped by those in the team, Jack is helping those around him, having only just turned 21 years old that is a big responsibility on young shoulders, shoulders that have only seen 85 appearances for Arsenal (15 of those coming before he was 18).

In comparison when Cesc was being asked to play in the first team he had Campbell and Toure behind him, Pires, Henry and Ljungberg in front of him, and Silva alongside him. Compare that to Jack who in reality had Cesc and BSR performing at the level of these players. Additionally the club was still in its good times, making the Champions League final in Cesc’s second senior season (he was still only 18), basically he had help, but thats not to take away from his abilities. Now Jack is in a team that is being questioned by fans, media and opponents, yet every time he picks up the ball I feel like something can happen that he can change the game.

Chas said something a few weeks back about Jack which I hadn’t realised, he hates passing backwards, he always tries to take the ball and team forward, he gains 5 yards for the team with the ball.

I understand that to be Arsenal and England’s greatest ever player, he needs to work on that final ball, and final decision making, it would be good to see him become more useful with his right foot and also needs to score a few more goals. What I’ve seen so far leads me to believe he will do it, he has come on leaps and bounds from the youngster thrown in at the deep end at the start of the 2010-11 season, he learns from every minute he spends on the pitch, and that is why I expect him to fulfil my claims above.

The modern cosmopolitan, multi national Premier League means he can become England’s greatest before he becomes Arsenal’s, in reality the England player of the last 30 years he has to surpass is Paul Gascoigne, before that its probably Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore as stand out greats of the English game. Can he do it? On first evidence I’d say without a doubt, not since Gascoigne have I seen the England team look to one player for direction and drive as much as England looked to Jack Wilshere on Wednesday night, if they had one option when they had the ball it was Jack, and they didn’t mind giving it to him because they know he protects it, more so than any other England player in recent memory.

So over to you, can Jack become our greatest ever player?

Who excited you as much when they first appeared in the team?

What does he have to achieve to become it?

Written by GoonerInExile

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98 Responses to (Future) Captain Jack Will Get Me High Tonight

  1. saeed ahmad says:

    yes. Wilshere will be the ever greatest england and arsenal foot baller bcos of his ability when running with the ball. But if we said dat, wat of thierry henry?, robert pires? Patrick vieira? Ray parlour and sol campbell from 2000’s?

  2. Manthan says:

    Great Work Gie,

    Jack has a potentail to become an arsenal legend but to keep him in arsenal AW should buy quality so tat we can win trophies…. HIs attitude on the pitch shows his character… He will work hard to win the ball always carry the team forward and always fight for othera… AW has quoted that jack is small player but his atttitude is bigger then all the star players….. I guess if he will play the football what he is playing right he can become world best and god of arsenal and we can have statue of JW10 in emirates after 15 years :) :)
    ……

  3. Olanrewaju says:

    Yeah……… i believe Jack can live up to that expectation. He’s a fantastic player.

  4. dandan says:

    Morning GIE IMHO you saw chippy playing for England on Wed, Jack is a carbon copy, a real chip off the old block, that acceleration over 5 yards when he has somehow extracted himself and the ball from a tangle of challenging players is vintage Chippy all he needs to do now is hit a 30 yard ball that sits up and stops like a shot from a golfers pitching wedge and We will know the cloning is complete. I suspect Jack is the reason chippy is retiring his work is done.
    It is up to Jack now to keep his head,his future lies more between his ears than in his feet, I believe AW will make sure he sees where Gaza and Best went wrong, lets hope he heeds the lessons

  5. kelsey says:

    I agree mostly with what dandan has said though not sure Brady is retiring for that reason.Though in dandan’s case his future lies mainly between his legs hahahaha ;)

  6. GoonerB says:

    Excellent post GIE and you echo my thoughts entirely. He is already world class but frighteningly will probably not hit his full potential for another 3 years yet.

    It is the goal tally I will be looking for him to improve over the next 2-3 years, as I expect him to play an increasing advanced role which should see him getting into the box more during attacks. I draw a parallel with Cesc here who started to play more advanced roles as his ability and influence increased. Initially he was getting into goal-scoring positions but wasn’t clinical but then suddenly started to get on the score sheet more often. I can also remember a game when Jack got MOTM and was alongside Cesc receiving the Champers and Cesc stated that Jack was ahead of where he was in his development at that age.

    I don’t normally like player comparisons and feel great players have their own subtle identity which is different from another great player, but with Jack I see elements of Gazza, Iniesta, Cesc and maybe even DB himself. He has the eye for a pass that DB had and if he does start to add 15 goals a season to his game I think he could end up playing the DB free role as the most advanced central attacker or in the hole player. I am not saying he is up to DB’s level yet but DB was 26 when he came to us while Jack is only 21, so plenty of time.

  7. Gooner In Exile says:

    Whenever I have heard Brady talk about Wilshere he has distanced himself from comparisons to himself, mainly I believe to keep hype at bay, but the cat is out of the bag, anyone can see that Jack is a special talent, fellow professionals, pundits and even some Spuds.

    What worries me is as others have said building a side at Arsensl to accompany his talents, something I guess we never really did for Brady, yes we won FA Cups but Leagues were a distant dream. I only really saw Brady play in the last knockings of his career when he arrived at West Ham. Even then he was magical to watch.

    I wonder how much of his work with our Academy was influenced by his time at the Hammers, and also having a manager in Wenger who wanted players ability developed rather than all about muscle and height.

    What I think I like most about Jack is the lack of flashiness in his play.

  8. Big Raddy says:

    GIE. love a musical reference and love the song….. I saw BJ at the Shaw Theatre in London at a Q&A.

    At the time he was married to Christine Brinkley. When asked how he did it, Mr Joel replied “A frog really can marry a Princess!”

    Which is true ….. isn’t it Kelsey :-D

  9. LB says:

    Great, great read GIE and I agree with errr most of it.

    It is interesting how you feel the need to make excuses for Jack; although I agree, you are right to do so.

    “He (Jack) needs to work on his final ball and final pass”

    Fàbregas was born with those two qualities, in fact I would go further and say that Jack is a mere water carrier compared to the talent that Cesc had at the same age and our one time captain needs no help from the excuse of having quality players around him.

    But the comparison between Fàbregas and Brady is flawed because both those two had next to no defensive game in their lockers, where as Wilshere is head and shoulders above both of those two in this area.

    Jack may think that he is a number 10 but I am not convinced that Wenger does. AW is a creature of habit and he always allows players to play in their favourite position for a while before moving to where he thinks they play best.

    Walcott was allowed to play through the middle until Wenger moved him to where he is most effective. I believe Wenger is doing the same with Wilshere.

    Over the coming months he will be moved further back. We got a glimpse of this against Stoke. Wilshere played a very attacking midfield role and was in my opinion ineffectual. Then Cazorla came on replacing Jack who was sent back and the difference in the attacking thrust was there for all to see.

    I like Jack a lot but being English adds no sway in me.

  10. dandan says:

    Sorry LB I cannot agree with you jack will be a better player than Cesc, Brady also was a ball winner when he wanted to be hence the cup final goal, Brady, Rix ,Sunderland. it was Brady who got the initial ball

  11. Shard says:

    I wish I’d seen Liam Brady play

  12. Manthan says:

    Shard,
    Same here :(

  13. Shard says:

    A nice piece GIE. Jack’s ability is unquestionable (unless you write for a Spurs blog). He stood out in the CL game against Barcelona. In a game which had midfielders like Iniesta, Xavi and Fabregas, Wilshere outshone them all. Which is not to say he’s already as good as them. But I think he has more talent, and is more suited to being a complete midfielder than Fabregas.

    The comment about him not passing backwards just reminded me of Cruyff’s description of how to play. Imagine an infinite number of lines drawn across the field, and always look to cross the lines going forward, even if it is an inch. Only if that is not possible, should you pass sideways or backwards and look to start again.

    I tend to agree with LB that at this time Cazorla is more effective, and also that Cesc will always be a more effective player than Jack in the final third. But Wilshere is better all round.

    And GIE, the line in your comment about any lack of flashiness in Wilshere’s game. That lack of flashiness is exactly what I loved about Bergkamp. He was so supremely talented and had pretty much everything in his locker. But on the field he was completely efficient. Just simply doing what was required. Never wasting a movement. Even his goal celebrations were generally very reserved :)

  14. Manthan says:

    If aston villa relegated dis season what about bringing Benetke to arsenal he has quoted once “I am an arsenal fan i like gunners”… Any Thoughts?????/

  15. goonerjake says:

    Id like to see more of Benteke before I could make a decision. A big plus is how well he is playing in a ‘relegation’ team.

  16. LB says:

    Hi Dandan

    Thanks for your view.

    I have adjusted my comment above to now say that Fabregas and Brady had (next to) no defensive game in their lockers.

    Any midfield player will make tackles from time to time but my point is that some are more suited to that role than others.

  17. LB says:

    “I tend to agree with LB that at this time Cazorla is more effective, and also that Cesc will always be a more effective player than Jack in the final third. But Wilshere is better all round.”

    Excellent point Shard, especially the bit about agreeing with me, if only others were to take this advice ;)

  18. Merseforever says:

    Hi LB,

    we had a similar debate on a blog last week. I think you are too critical of Jack’s final ball. Just because Cesc’s was better at 20/21, doesn’t mean that Jack’s cannot get as good within a year or two.

    Also you say his defensive abilities means that he should be played further back. I don’t agree. That is square pegs and round holes. Wilshere is great in the tackle and sound defensively, but that’s not where he should be used. It would be better to get a proper ball winner (which is why I’m happy with the rumours of us bringing Capoue in this summer) and have Jack sitting in front, and harrying the opposition when he choses. His good defensive abilities should be used exactly as Brady’s were( on occasion): to win the ball high up the pitch and then slide in a killer pass or have a shot on goal.

    I love the boy, and I hope Arsenal don’t make the same mistake we made with Fabregas. He deserves, like Cesc deserved, to have a truly quality team built around him, not with cost cutting alternatives taking up first XI places. As long as the club makes every effort to do that (something I don’t think they’ve done in the past few years), there’s no reason why Super Jack won’t be a one club man and Mr Arsenal v2!

  19. GoonerB says:

    LB @12.09, I can see what you are saying about AW and maybe he will see him as a deeper midfielder. At this point in time I hope not however as I feel he adds too much quality in the last third. The pass that led to the first England goal was absolutely from the Bergkamp slide rule school of excellence and I have seen this from jack a few times now. He is not yet as consistent with it as DB but then DB arrived as a 26 year old while Jack is still 5 years away from that point. The fact that, IMO, Jack already has that ability in his game to see the pass and make it with absolute precision is the most important thing at this stage.

    I also don’t think that I would look at the Stoke game as an example of him being more effective deeper than in the advanced role. We did indeed look better when Santi came on but for me that could more be because we now had 2 CM’s that could drive forward and try and open up the opposition rather than just one. There are also other factors to consider such as it was later in the game and Stoke were maybe tiring, and Santi came on as fresh legs. In a reverse situation I could also see a hypothetical scenario in some games where Santi could start and we would struggle to break a team down and maybe jack would come off the bench and change the game.

    You may end up right about him and where AW sees him eventually LB, but at this stage I will have to politely disagree with your feelings on this. I am perfectly happy to eat humble pie however should it become the case.

  20. LB says:

    Merse

    It was the author who was critical of Wilshere’s final ball, I simply agreed. And your suggestion that Wilshere will be as good as Fabregas misses the point ot the headline post: GIE compares Fabregas to Wilshere’s age now.

    My comparison between the two has been stated above.

  21. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Fine stuff GiE

    Wilshere is a special talent, no doubt about that. How good will be he? i think the answer is mainly dependent on him. If he works hard on his development and keeps his head out of the clowds then he has a chance to become one of the great European players.

    I must say, he also brings a needed sense of hunger and identity to this current squad. I love the bloke.

    LB, Cesc us also a great player but dont forget at the beggining he couldnt hit a barn door. My inclination is that the exquisite problem Arsene will have with Jack is that he will become our best player in both an attacking midfield role and also as one of the deeper midfielders.

    The answer is simple. We need to clone him.

  22. LB says:

    Terry

    Having seen every single game Fabregas played for Arsenal I am a bit confused by your statement that “Cesc couldn’t hit a barn door in the beggining” could you explain? Thank you in advance.

  23. GoonerB says:

    Shard, I can’t also agree with the Cesc will always be a more effective player than Jack thought. As I said I can remember Cesc stating that Jack was ahead of where he was by a certain age. He may have just been being nice but I actually believe he meant it so I don’t believe that Cesc was a more naturally gifted player than Jack. I also remember how Cesc tended to play deeper earlier on and started to play in more advanced roles as he developed. It is impossible to say where Jack will be when Jack reaches the age Cesc is now but I am more with Dandan that he could actually be better. None of this is in any disrespect to Cesc who I, still, massively rate as a player. He is actually the one high profile departure that I would welcome back to the club. Imagine a powerful DM like Capoue sitting behind Jack and Cesc in attacking roles with maybe Cazorla playing as one of the attacking wide front 3. MMmm, mouthwatering.

  24. LB says:

    The only thing that is missing from the blog today is the music to Land of Hope and Glory playing as we sign in.

  25. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    LB, i did say at the “beggining” he couldnt hit a barn door. In fact, for the first season or two people were questioning wether he could shoot or score enough goals.

    Obviously his class came through and he proved all the doubters wrong, and i was never one of his doubters.

    i believe Wilshere has the same potential as Cesc for timing of the runs, and he certainy has a shot on him, to eventuly score 10 to 15 goals per season in an advanced role.

    I like the fact that he is English, but this has nothing to do with the subject of his ability. The guy was born to play football.

    The way he is developing in a couple of years he will probably become our best left back and goalkeeper too. hahaha

  26. GoonerB says:

    Don’t worry LB, I have been playing it on a loop all the time I have been commenting today.

    I can see Terry’s point about Cesc. It echoes my earlier thought that as Cesc started to become a more attacking player he frequently got into goal-scoring positions but didn’t have a clinical finishing edge or shot in him. this he developed as he played this role more. I remember this due to being in fantasy football manager competitions, and on being asked by a non Arsenal supporting friend who I would recommend from Arsenal I said Cesc because he had for the last 12 months been getting into many goal-scoring positions and the goals were only a matter of time. I would like to see Jack develop this way so that he could become a 15 goal a season player as well as being the heart beat, creative force and drive within the team.

  27. GoonerB says:

    By the way, just because Terry and I are saying much the same thing, I would like to re-assure you all that we are not sitting side by side on separate computers in the same room holding hands while we post.

  28. LB says:

    Cesc was so good as an attacking midfielder that he has even made the transition to pure “Attacker” if you guys imagine that Wilshere is of that ilk, then enjoy but I don’t. To me, he is more suited to the role that Arteta plays now.

  29. Merseforever says:

    LB,

    I do get your point. Fabregas’s final ball was probably better at 21 that Jack’s is. I think Jack is a better dribbler in tight spaces than Cesc was at the same age though. But what I’m saying is that using that as a reason to suggest he’s not suited for a role further up the pitch is too big a jump to take.

    While youth football is obviously massively different to senior level, JW was banging in goals and making assists for fun in the academy. He does have it in his locker.

    What are people thought’s on Chelski’s situation with Lumpard. I intensely dislike the man, but to be fair to him his goal scoring record as a midfielder is ridiculous. It is good for us if Lampard is involved with the England set up for as long as possible, so Jack can pick up his ridiculous skill of being in the right place at the right time…

  30. LB says:

    GB

    That is a funny comment at 1.26

  31. LB says:

    Merse

    Interesting point about Lampard. Of all the footballers on this planet he is the player I most dislike. Your comment reminds me of a time that I had forgotten about, I was convinced that he was the player most likely to get left behind in the Abramovich revolution; let’s face it, he was pants in the FA Cup final in Cardiff.
    But as you say, he has surprised and certainly succeeded, hmmmm, that certainly is a strong arguement.

  32. Red Arse says:

    I know what — why doesn’t someone have a go at Jack.

    Just ignore the comments made be so many of his fellow professionals and managers that he is superb. That should make it easier.

    Let’s see ermmmm, oh I know — he is not as good a goalkeeper as Seaman was. Or am I missing something??

    The fact that Jack is unique, fantastic, and will soon rank among the most brilliant players Arsenal have ever had just doesn’t sit well with some people does it? Or am I missing something??

    Oh, did I say that already?

  33. Red Arse says:

    GoonerB @1:24.

    Don’t try the old double bluff. We all know you and TerryDactile are ‘bosom’ pals and that the Glicster is madly jealous!! :D

  34. GunnerN5 says:

    My morning groan…………………

    Early this morning Kelsey suggested that the League Projection widget be removed. Well I agree with that feeling as I’ve never really understood it’s relevance plus it’s three games behind.

    The Arsenal Goals Scored and Assits Widgets are both four games behind – it’s good to have widgets as a reference point but they are only meaningful if they are maintained on a current basis.

    Groaning over…………………

  35. LB says:

    I know what why don’t we discuss Jack’s optimum position………..oh but wait we are not allowed to do that because one person doesn’t get it.

    Back to you having to be the centre of attention.

  36. Merseforever says:

    LB,

    surely there are players you dislike more?! English Braveheart JT or Ashley ‘nearly swerved off the road’ Cole are more dislikeable! I’m convinced Lampard is reaping the benefits of an extremely unlucky past life. I have never seen a luckier player ever. He’s probably scored more deflected goals than anyone in the history of the universe, in all past, present and future dimensions.

    Nevertheless, you have to acknowledge his hard work and proffesionalism and the fact he made the best use of his talents and squeezed everything he could from his (in my opinion) limited talents. If Jack can get everything from his vastly superior natural ability, we’ll have a phenom on our hands, and perhaps Fat Frank can help him do that, especially with scoring. What would your thoughts be about signing him on a one year deal. A lot of Gooners I know aren’t opposed to it.

    I couldn’t stomach it. I lived over in Battersea (before gentrification, so when it was full of old school south londoners) for a couple of years and my dislike for Chelsea went up exponentially then. This was pre-oil money. I hated their poxy rubbish ground. I hated their national front rubbish, and I hated their idiot fans. They saw themselves as true English and used to Sieg Heil. How dumb can you be?!

  37. Gooner In Exile says:

    Afternoon all, sorry not been around much to play.

    Thanks for the comments and I am unsurprised that it stoked some debate (especially from LB).

    I find it interesting that potentially Wilshere could be a better attacking midfielder for England than Arsenal, I think that says more about England and the Premier League game rather than Wilshere.

    LB I must admit most of my views on Wilshere in the attacking mould came from watching the snippets we saw of him in the Youth set up. He was the unpicker of stubborn defences the assist maker, and occasional goalscorer.

    Can he translate that to senior football is yet to be seen.

    My point on Cesc was not making excuses for Jack, merely illustrating that defences were not just worried about Cesc when he started they already had three or four other players to worry about which meant more space to operate…but when they left Cesc still played like he had an extra second on the ball compared to those around him. Jack plays at a faster pace, a more English pace but he has much more at his feet than the best English midfielders of the last twenty years.

    Two comments have stuck with me since Jack made it into the England first team.

    The first by Rio said something like “it was a joy to watch you lending the ball out, can’t wait to see it again”. The choice of words “lend” rather than “pass” for me tells me a lot about how he is viewed by fellow pros.

    The second comment was from Henry Winter, Capello had talked about playing Wilshere in the more defensive role, Winter said “Why? Let the boy play.” From someone who watches a lot of football I saw this as an indication of where he could help England more and more importantly where England needed him

  38. kelsey says:

    My friend ate a horse burger and the doctor told him to take a paracetamol every 4 furlongs, luckily shes in a stable condition now.

  39. LB says:

    Merse

    Nope, as irrational as it might seem, Lampard is the one that I dislike above all.

    I find it very difficult to dislike ex Arsenal players and that even applies to Ashley Cole, I don’t blame his for leaving I blame the board at the time for their poor man management. That was not David Dein’s finest moment.

    As for John Terry, he is just pathetic.

  40. LB says:

    GIE

    It is difficult to comment as I haven’t seen the clips of Jack that you refer to.

  41. Gooner In Exile says:

    LB you mean players left when David Dein was Chief Exec? Surely not!?! :)

  42. jnyc says:

    I just want to simply add that it is so much fun watching jack play, and to think about how good he will be :-D

  43. Merseforever says:

    LB,

    To be honest I agree with you over Cole. Despite his despicable behaviour at the end of his career, he always put in 100% for us and more. Could you stomach Lamps coming to us?

    I would be interested to read what people on here thought of Nazi FC before Abramovic. As I said, I’ve hated them for decades, but I know many who liked them under Ruud and Vialli and even Ranieri.

  44. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    Great post and can’t wait to get stuck in. Trying to shut up shop as fast as possible.
    I am hard at work coming up with some likey-likies.
    Jack = Cazorla x Petit – Diaby + Brady
    Brady = Jack + Rosicky – Cazorla
    and so on
    All utter friday nonsense :-)

  45. Big Raddy says:

    Merse.

    I have never hated the Chavs. However, I have hated a section of their support which is Millwall-esque.

    Pre-Abra they were a mid-table club who we beat on a regular basis. In my youth they were a glamour club with the Kings Rd connection.

    The collection of morons who inhabited the Shed have largely died off (or are still banged up). There remain some meatheads who sit above the away fans but SB is usually full of foreigners who can’t get tickets for the Emirates.

    I used to go and watch the Vialli and Gullit team when we weren’t playing – they had a wonderful habit of self-imploding which was always good for a laugh.

  46. LB says:

    If you heard the sound of someone throwing up it was me when I read the idea of Lampard coming to the home of football.

  47. LB says:

    GIE

    Full disclosure: I do not rate David Dein in the way many do. I obviously respect him as an out and out Gooner but the idea that he was perfect when at the club is wide of the mark and the idea that he could be some kind of saviour makes me laugh.

  48. kelsey says:

    I find it difficult to make a real comparison yet between Fabregas and Wilshere.
    When cesc broke into the first team it was basically the invinsibles and he had mentors every which way he turned.
    With jack just look how the team has changed in the last two years of which he missed 17 months and I wouldn’t want the lad to feel he should be carrying the team as yet. future captain,yes.

  49. Red Arse says:

    GIE,

    My apologies for not complimenting your very excellent Jackathon Post! :-)

    I have never seen so many fantastic plaudits handed out by fellow professionals, various managers and experienced pundits to a young player as has been to Jack.

    I think they agree with you :-) and I respect their knowledge and yours! :D

  50. Red Arse says:

    David Dein was never the CEO of Arsenal. He was appointed to the role of Vice Chairman to Hill Wood, and eventually owned 42% of the club.

    Irrespective of anyone’s views as to his worth to Arsenal, he did one thing for which all Gooners should be forever grateful.

    He sounded out and appointed Arsene Wenger as coach, and that great man went on to become the greatest manager the club has ever had.

    Well done Dein-y that’s good enough for me. :-)

  51. Red Arse says:

    Merse, :-)

    In answer to your question – what did others think of Chelsea pre-Abramovich? – my only thought is that Abramovich saved them from financially disintegrating, and doing a Portsmouth, and for that he really bugged me! :-)

  52. GunnerN5 says:

    Over the years I’ve either mellowed or gone soft.

    You see; I have zero hatred toward any club, manager or player and frankly very little dislike – but I do have a lot of distaste for the amount of the underhanded dealings the bias and the cheating that takes place.

    I look at Lampard as being a great player for both club and country and if he had played for Arsenal I would have been very happy.

    My, short term, wrath is usually directed at the poor/biased officiating and the taudry manner in which Arsenal is both perceived and demeaned.

  53. Red Arse says:

    Hear, hear GN5 :-)

    Mellowed, maybe. Gone soft? No way. :D

  54. Big Raddy says:

    GN5 I admire your mellowdom/ness

    Sadly I am not so even-handed. To me football has always been about Heroes and Villians.

    Mr Wenger is a Hero, Pulis is a Villian.

    Thierry Henry = Hero, John Terry = Villian etc etc

    I wouldn’t have it any other way

  55. GunnerN5 says:

    BR:

    Funnily enough we are on the same page, some players/managers/clubs drive me crazy.

    There will always be the good guys and bad guys but I think that talk about hatred is going way too far – in my mind it’s akin to booing your own team or players.

  56. Merseforever says:

    Big Raddy and RA,

    As said, I’ve disliked them for a long time. Had a few run ins with the idiot element of their support as have some of my friends, and as recently as this year, a friend of my son’s (who is black) and was in south london seeing his girlfriend had to deal with some chelsea knuckleheads spouting rubbish. Maybe I (as well as people I know) have just been more unlucky than most, but I always loved beating them through the late 80’s and 90’s well before the petro-dollars actually made them rivals in terms of league position. When they were recently chanting ‘We want our chelsea back’ I found it funny as they recalled the glorious days of their greyhound track, Nazis and an empty Stamford Bridge.

    Peter Osgood though…. He was a fantastic player. Should have been ours too. He didn’t show up to his trial with the Arsenal because he thought he wasn’t good enough. His brother forced him to go when Chelsea came knocking a few months later…

    BR, unfortunately in the last few years, you and I have been better acquainted with another talented team which had the habit (hopefully we’ve kicked it) of self imploding… :(

  57. Red Arse says:

    Randy, :-)

    Of course you, GN5 and I could still be singing from the same hymn sheet.

    You describe Thierry and Arsene as heroes, and Pulis and JT as villains, and they are ‘descriptive’ or identifying nouns, which perhaps we can all agree with.

    Whereas, GN5 was referring to a lack of hatred, which is an intense dislike of something, and you may or may not agree with that.

    I know, I know — or maybe I know fook all!! :D

  58. Red Arse says:

    Merse,

    I have every sympathy with your sentiment. I would have felt the same!

    Being faced with racism and bigotry would make anyone feel sickened by the individuals concerned. :-(

  59. LB says:

    Try having to watch your brother being attacked by a bunch of spuds and see if you can’t use the word hatred.

    I hate spuds but I only use it collectively, by contrast Phil Bloomberg is one of my dearest friends and they don’t get more spud than he.

  60. Red Arse says:

    If it was my brother being attacked by a gang of Spud supporters — I would hate them too!

  61. dandan says:

    GN5 5;06 Agree with you whole heartedly, hatred is a word that leaps to easily to the tongue in all parts of today’s society.
    Hatred is pointless in that it demeans the hater as much as the hated.
    Football fans are still football fans no matter what their persuasion and as such should be treated as we would wish to be treated, after all we are not beyond reproach and have our own black sheep.

  62. Merseforever says:

    GN5,

    I know you’ve been following the Arsenal for longer than I’ve been alive, but am I right in thinking you now live (and have for a fair amount of time) abroad. Being absent, from the day-to-day interactions and pub chat football would undoubtedly lesson my dislike for other clubs and their supporters.

    Obviously I don’t hate man ute, tottenham, chelsea and their fans like I do murders, rapists and terrorists, but strongly dislike is not a term that is unsuitable when talking about them collectively (as LB says). GN5 you probably never went to Stamford Bridge or White Hart Lane in the 80’s when hooliganism was rife. I’ve witnessed such disgusting behaviour from both sets of fans, I’ll never forget it. Tottenham’s ‘Top Boys’ weren’t above getting aggressive and leary with scarfers, and the Chelsea mob… Well let me put it this way, going away to Stamford Bridge in the 80’s was liking treking into a foreign world. How could a set of lads from North and South London be so different.

    Obviously we had our share of idiots, but I’m glad that compared to other London clubs, Arsenal never had a massive problem with racism and you pretty much never heard any at Highbury by the 80’s.

    I think its probably fair to say that there are different degrees of hatred. My highest one is reserved for truly evil people.
    The second level probably for Spurs and Chelsea!

  63. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Hi
    I got beaten up in Nottingham by a few locals on the ice rink.
    I think they duffed me up because I was welsh
    This was many years ago early 80s.

  64. RockyLives says:

    GiE
    Excellent Post – well done.
    I’m torn between getting really excited about Jack and wanting to be like Harry Enfield’s Scousers and run round saying “calm down, calm down.”

    I have no doubt he will play most of his career for club and country in an advanced role. He already has the skill set and the goals will come.

    Apart from anything else, he is the most progressive-minded player at both Arsenal and England.

    I’ve never really forgiven Balotelli for his disrespectful attitude to Jack when the Italian won the young footballer of the year award two years ago (Jack was runner up). Balo said he had never heard of Jack but would remind him when they met on the field of play that he – Mario – was the top dog.

    Well, where are we now? Jack is MoTM for England against Brazil and is already being talked of as a national captain – and Balotelli got the lowest ratings of anyone on the Italian team in their draw with Holland.

  65. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    🍺

  66. mallard says:

    Sorry I haven’t been around to comment the last few days. I’m between houses and the gym wifi doesn’t allow me to comment.

    Thanks to RA, johnnie, micky and GIE for some fine posts.
    As for Jack, who needs words?

  67. Gooner In Exile says:

    Mallard there is only one thing for it….ditch the healthy option and head for your nearest Golden Arches where I’m sure the wifis are complimentary and a little less controlled. :)

  68. Big Raddy says:

    The only time I have been actually attacked at a football match as opposed to being threatened was at Yeovil.

    Do I hate Yeovil fans? Yes, with a passion. Fortunately, we don’t play them that often :-D

    The worst football violence I have witnessed was at Villa Park in the first FAC SF vs MU. Some MU fans got behind enemy lines and the Arsenal hooligans surrounded them. It was horrible to witness as the Gooners kicked 2 colours out of the Mancs. There must have been 20 ambulances to take the MU lads away.

    Arsenal like most clubs has an element of vicious, violent fans.

  69. Gooner in Exile says:

    Been no mention of this today on here, thoughts please?

    FFP in the Premier League, clubs limited to losing £105m in the next three years, be interesting to see how City cope with that!

    Very interesting that the vote went 13-6, and interesting who voted against, Man City (no surprise), then Fulham, WBA, Villa, Swansea, and Southampton.

    Are you surprised no Chelsea in that list? Yes apparently they have agreed to the new rules…..wonders never cease, or in fact Abramovich’s money pit is not as bottomless as some first thought!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21374699

  70. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning GiE,
    Sorry never made it yesterday.
    Work went on v late, then I had such an early night that bingo, here I am awake at 5:30.
    I do find something quite funny about clubs being “limited” to losing £105m, I mean, what’s 100m between mates :-)
    .
    .
    .
    Long pause there why I think about Fulham, WBA etc voting against alongside City….. nope, no idea.

  71. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I’ve had more time to think about Jack, and really, his performance and role for England the other night have changed much of my thinking about him.
    Friendly or not, he really took the game by the scruff of the neck, and it is a certain character as much as quality of player who can do that on the International stage.
    Also, I am now even more 100% convinced of our need to rethink our three man midfield set-up, and adopt the Hodgson 1-2 formula.

  72. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I knew that post would bring LB out to play.
    Warning all: I feel his confidence is rising and a bet could be, once again, an option :-)

  73. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Sunderland eh?
    Following the home 0-0, order needs to be restored, and I think we’ll be dishing out a lesson.
    Doubtful they will have too many players suffering from International fatigue, but we will hit hem, and hard :-)
    Back later when people can be bothered to get out of bed.

  74. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All,

    Slow start for Raddy …. lots of washing-up from a late night dinner party.

    Why would the other 5 vote against?

  75. MickyDidIt89 says:

  76. Gooner In Exile says:

    Morning all. The only reason I can see for them voting against is part of their business model meant selling out to a wealthy Sheikh in the future.

    Don’t really understand the rules around wages. Apparently we will only be able to increase our player wage bill by £4m a year, because we already spend over £56m, that seems crazy when we can cover our wages with income. Think I need to see more detail on that element.

    But I do like the fact that losses over £5m have to be secured against the owners assets, maybe that is why some above voted against, maybe they don’t want to be giving guarantees.

  77. GoonerB says:

    What did you cook at your dinner party Raddy?

  78. Gooner In Exile says:

    Mackerel obviously, and Herring for starter, Seal for dessert

  79. GoonerB says:

    Micky and GIE, I still can’t see the FFP being effective. We all know City’s deal with Etihad airways was just a dodgy way of the owners pumping in money to wipe off debt but have they been pulled up on it? In 2016 they are probably lining up a £300m one year deal with Etihady Fried Chicken.

  80. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE 7:51 ROLF

  81. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Our player wages are only £56m, and yet the overall payroll is £143m.
    Wowee, I spot an issue.

  82. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Gooner B
    I agree. Cannot see FFP not being overcome by shrewd accounting.

  83. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    You’ve had me sitting here giggling like a loon at the thought of Raddy tucking into Seal and Custard for pudding :-)

  84. LB says:

    Top clip Micky 7.39, great way to start the day.

  85. Big Raddy says:

    Gooner B. Sorry for the slow response – just finishing the post.

    I cooked turkey in a cream, white wine and grape sauce. Rice and leeks accompaniment. Plus a few bottles of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc to mask the taste!

  86. MickyDidIt89 says:

    LB,
    You know of Alabama 3?

  87. Big Raddy says:

    Micky. That is a wonderful vid.

    As LB says great start to the day

    And what is wrong with seal flipper and custard? They serve it in Noma (world’s best restaurant)

  88. Gooner In Exile says:

    Think my menu was better, especially given the wine choice. I’ve always found the Chilean Sauvignons a little too “Esther Rantzen” which in normal wine parlance means too acidic and dry. Unless I haven’t found the good ones yet, we tend to stick to NZ for Sauv, or the more modern French chateaus (honestly some exist).

  89. slime says:

    There will probably be loopholes in this FFP business, but if Mancini is already having a good moan about it this morning then I reckon it’s 1-0 to the good guys.

    The fact is that we are one of the only clubs that has set a target with the FFP in mind, that can only be a good thing with these new sanctions coming in. I’m not saying we are suddenly going to fly up the league and start dominating Europe, but it has to be a step in the right direction. Teams will have to build more from within to reduce wages, or sell before they buy which could put a stop to bulk transfers ie Newcastle in January.

  90. Gooner In Exile says:

    Seal and custard seems the perfect match, I imagine it has a jelly consistency. :)

  91. Big Raddy says:

    GIE. No arguing with your choice of Sauvignon – NZ every time. But a dinner party for 6 will use at least 6 bottles and 6 bottles of Cloudy Bay too rich for me.!

    Last night was Palo Alto SB – I can recommend it for an everyday tipple.

    Got any names for the Frenchies?

    You are wrong about the jelly consistency. Seal reminds me of Spotted Dick without the spots. More glutinous than jelly

  92. Gooner In Exile says:

    I’ll dig out some of the recent ones, the NZeverday tipple we go for is Ned £5.99 a bottle in Majestic and normally we buy 2 boxes at a time, I say normally because we haven’t bought wine for a while :(

    Was trying some quite a few new NZ last year and there were some very good ones Dogpoint being a name from memory. But they were more Cloudy Bay price bracket.

  93. Red Arse says:

    GIE, :-)

    I think there is a good Post lurking within the EPL version of the FFP, once it has been ratified in April.

    Plenty of loopholes in there as I understand the limited info released so far.

    The level of players wages is limited in accordance with the TV and Matchday revenues. However, the salary ‘cap’ can increase in line with ‘commercial’ revenue and sponsorship income.

    I feel Shitty will be getting another ‘commercial’ deal with the Etihad Airline any minute now. Manure will be happy as they have by far the biggest revenue streams in the EPL etc, etc.

    There is a logical and financial reason for Fulham, Villa and the others to object to the scheme, and all will be revealed in your Post!! :-)

  94. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Bloody Hell Raddy,
    6 people, 6 bottles.
    Are you old and civilized by any chance?

  95. Big Raddy says:

    Micky …. “at least” :-D

    and no – I am not civilized – damn I hate this American spellcheck, there is no z in civilized

  96. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Spelling is so overrated. Ask Winston Churchill.

  97. Big Raddy says:

    And now For Your Pleasure ….

    A New Post

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