Unpleasant Reality

I was chatting recently and it occurred to me that even if Robin van Persie were to go down and miss the rest of the season, he has already delivered enough to get United the title. The realization hit me hard, even though I guess we should have known for a while. I thought he could be a difference maker down the stretch in a close race. I didn’t believe he would be so decisive two-thirds through the season and sooner. I was foolish enough to think we were the better team anyway with so few players I would take from their squad. Certainly they are well coached, and yes they show up hungry for a high percentage of their matches. We sometimes show up for the second half. They sure do receive plenty of help from the establishment.

I’m not saying that they can’t blow the lead in the table, of course it’s possible, even with a fit RvP. But even if they did fall, with or without him, everyone would already know the value of what we gave to them. I’m actually surprised that it’s not highlighted more in the media. I guess it’s just what people have come to see as the natural order of things. For us to cave in to the lure of money (or the fear of losing the opportunity to make money), and certain other teams to do what it takes to get the job done.

I don’t care about the stupid articles and stats that say United would be mid table without him. There’s no way to quantify it so accurately. But I’m sure they wouldn’t be near the top of the table. The losing matches that he rescued for them early in the season would have been a huge blow to their confidence if the outcome had been different, and who knows how they could have spiraled lower. If United dropped out of the top five only, then we would be that much closer to fourth, even with no help from van Persie.

We probably wouldn’t be behind Tottenham or Everton. Most likely very close to or ahead of United. We will feel the pain much more acutely if we don’t retain our Champions league spot. Not the pride, but the financial repercussions.

I actually really like our squad, but let’s face it, we are under performing badly. I wish I knew why exactly. We all have our own gripes and opinions – where we should have strengthened, who should be playing more, or less- and in what position. Clearly there would have been less pressure and dependence on three new attackers from three different leagues if we still had the Prem’s best striker.

Someone said here brilliantly- “we are less than the sum of our parts” .. Where as I must say United are just the opposite.

I like our players and our future prospects, but we are jeopardizing it right now. I don’t feel like the answer was in the January transfer window, it’s just about playing better than we have been.

We all know we dodged a big bullet with a lot of help from the spurs choking last season. I think even more is at stake now, because I truly believe we are on the verge of a bright future, with a strong young team and real possibilities for improvement. I can only fear what a setback it will be if this one mistake becomes the difference in where we finish.

Even though it’s disheartening to look at the table now, we know other teams will drop points, if not as dramatically as last season, but will we take advantage ?

Written by johnnie nyc

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138 Responses to Unpleasant Reality

  1. Morning all, well put jync – I feel I may sound like a cracked record the number of times I whinge about VanJudas even though I try to believe those that tell me we had no alternative as a club but to give him to ManUre.

    But really ? If we drop out of the top 4 I doubt whether the £24m we got for him will comfort us much.

    THAT transfer is the worst thing to happen to us in a long while.

  2. Fwench says:

    Undoubtedly RVP has had a positive effect on Utd but to talk of them falling to 5th in the table without him possibly is ridiculous. Utd have finished in the top 2 16 out of 19 seasons in the PL era and were 3rd the other times.

  3. David says:

    Well well you gave us vp….. Get it right your club SOLD him to us !
    Why would you be higher in the league ? Arsenal have done nothing now for ten years , you are falling for your managers crap that
    Coming FOURTH is a trophy !! Why do you listen to such rubbish ?
    We lost the league last year by goal difference without Rvp .
    Why would it be different this year .
    Please stop clutching at straws and either tell your manager the team is not good enough , nine years with nothing ??? or get a new one , had venger been anywhere else he would have been sacked.
    The team he inherited won him the trophies , sorry..face it

  4. Wonderman says:

    Thought provoking jnyc ….for me the key is in injury prevention,individual focus and Wenger using his squad more when players are not performing. With the exception of Giroud we have good cover all over the pitch. I think it’s unquestionable that our new players have all not only settled but contributed in their first season. I am hoping that the purchase of and immediate intro to the first team of Nacho is an indicator of a new found ruthlessness.

    I agree that the selling of Van P to the Mancs seems to be the worst transfer of modern times but that is not the reason why we are not higher up the table as there is no garauntee that he would have turned draws into wins

  5. Rasp says:

    Thanks jnyc,

    Who knows the truth about the BSR transer? I’ve heard it said that he preferred a move to Italy but no concrete offers came through and so it was between city and manu, and he chose to go to manu even though they werent offering the highest wage.

    Its clear that when he said he wasn’t even going to discuss a new contract we’d have to sell him and since the only 2 acceptable suitors were 1st and 2nd in the prem, it was bound to improve the fortunes of a club that would inevitably finish above us …… but like everyone, I hate the idea of selling our best asset to any of that lot.

    For me the worst transfer involving manu was in the opposite direction when we actually paid them money for Sylvestre – a player they deemed not good enough for even their reserves :( He may have plugged a gap in our back up defenders – but have we no pride, surely we could have brought one of the youngsters through

  6. David
    You are a bit of a knob mate. if you want to bitch at least get your facts straight.

  7. David says:

    See another arsenal head hiding in a bag
    Why do I need to bitch about arsenal you’ve not competed with us for years , why do you try to defend your teams us results
    Or is fourth really the height of your ambition get your head out of the bag and you see the facts
    In arse we trust

  8. Can I tin tack David, Raspers ?? I fecking hate glory-hunting, plastic ManUre front bottoms.

    Send him back to jerking off over granny shagger and old funguscum.

    We don’t need wannabe trolls like him stinking up our blog. Feck off David, you’re not welcome.

  9. Oops, my response to the ManUre fan is being moderated, ha ha.

  10. Where was I defending my team? I told you to get your facts right.

    You said we’ve done nothing for 10 years. I seem to remember winning the league unbeaten in that period. For all your manager’s achievement’s that is the one thing he hasn’t done. It was done by a team that Wenger put together not one that he “inherited”.

  11. Red Arse says:

    Anyone else smell a David rat?

    Same old claptrap – same old Capitals – same old, same old SH*T.

  12. babakrdaemi says:

    Good article, I think next year could be a good one for us just because it should be the first season we dont lose a major player or two as it usually is in the summer. However, if we fail to finish 4th then we may lose a couple of players. I bet Theo has a get out clause, as one or two others most likely will.

    I think 4th is achievable even 3rd with Chelsea playing like they are. However, we need to sort it out and start winning games. Plus the cups are as much and determination than anything else. Looking at the Champions League and FA Cup last year Chelsea were very determined and awfully luck in the semi-final games with Barca (I believe they hit the post 3 times). And in the final Byern missed countless chances Chelsea just watched over there shoulder. Not to take away how dogged they were in those games. Even the Cup final they were a bit lucky against Liverpool.

    As long as we get behind the team for the rest of the season we could still have a good year.

    COME ON THE GUNNERS

  13. Ah, you may be right Redders, I thought it was a ManUre troll, but the sign off line on his 10.57 is the give-away.

  14. Rob Lucci says:

    jnyc,

    I concur with Rasp comment that when he decided to not extend his contract we have no choice but to sell him.

    It will be dangerous to retain him when he didn’t have Arsenal more in his heart. He is an influential figure in the dressing room, if he was being held against his will he’ll be a bigger cancer than Gallas or Nasri.

    I heard that when the three bid come from Juventus, City and Manu, RVP chose Manu nomatter what, and I believe that Arsene has already tried his hardest not to sell him to Manu to the point that Ferguson had to involve himself in the negotiation process.

  15. Rob Lucci says:

    one more thing, I didn’t get it why people are so worried the fourth place.

    Arsenal finish third on Wenger’s worst season evr as Arsenal manger.

    We even managed to finish fourth in 2009/2010 with Almunia in goal, Sylvestre at the back, Denilson in the middle and Arshavin and Bendtner upfront. :)

  16. Rob Lucci says:

    *about fourth place

  17. Bryan says:

    Johnnie
    Sorry I can not go along with the “if Man U didn’t have RVP” argument, they finished 2nd last year & should of won it but they messed up.
    I thought they were one of the poorest teams I have seen under AF but they still finished 2nd.
    You see the difference is AF will not tolerate inadequate performances of which we have seen so many times this season from our team. When Man U have a bad 1st half you normally always see a response from them in the 2nd. When they are away from home, they always look from the very start like they have gone there to win, something sadly I to often don’t see from our lads.
    Man for man, I don’t think Man U are that much better than us but there is a totally different attitude from them on the pitch, I do believe Wengers motivation skills don’t seem to be that good & why are we often so frightened of the bigger teams, the worst is a defeat, so have a damn go.
    There is no doubt if we had RVP we would be doing better as he is world class, but theres the problem, if you sell world class you go out & buy world class, something we just don’t do.

    Here’s a story I have kept to myself but I will put it on here now, take it how you want, a friend of mine bumped into Pat Rice not to long a go & had a chat with him. He said that RVP had started to fall out with Arsene near the end & told Wenger he did not want to play for another English side & that he would go to Juve but Wenger did not want to sell him for the 12M Juve were offering & when Man U offered twice as much, Wenger wanted to do the buisiness with them & then RVP had to come out with the crap about the little boy in his head stuff lol For me I have lost a bit of the anger for what RVP done & while I am at it, Song was becoming to big for his boots, thats why he was sold.

    We do have a good bunch of players, that are deffinately under performing, if we could add maybe 2 world class players, one being top captain material then I believe we will see the difference

  18. vp says:

    An emotionally rousing article. I admire your courage to ask the questions you do. One of the reasons why a lot of the fans can’t really get over this transfer is because of the lack of clarity in respect to why he was sold.Was it because he wanted to leave for monetary reasons, or because he did not agree with the club’s short-term fiscal behavior and predicted the consequent demise that we see before us?

    I think that the proof is in the pudding. We would not have signed Podolski or Giroud if he’d stayed (Wenger more or else stated this) and the team would have been almost identical to the one that finished an embarrassing 19 points behind the leaders last year round. For all of those who suggest that we’d be competing for the Prem if RVP was still around are blissfully unaware of the fact that the new additions would not have been apart of our team, without the RVP money. In real terms -With or without RVP we’d still be challenging for fourth (third at best). The only thing that makes it worse is that we’ve strengthened the enemy in the process and further increased the gap between us and the best. But when you don’t strive for becoming the best-its not an issue!

    It appears that most fans have forgiven the club for the sale and have already convinced themselves that the sale of RVP was beyond the club’s control and when a player wants to go there’s nothing that can be done. It’s a pretty simplified way of looking at it, but i guess if this works for you and helps heal the wounds then by all means, continue. Just don’t blame those who can’t.

  19. I totally disagree with you bryan

    City should have walked the title but they messed up probably due to not being in that position before which gave the mancs a chance.

  20. Sav from Australia says:

    @Johnny
    RE: RVP
    From the article on FT.com, it was clear that VP wanted to go to Barcelona to link up with Cesc. When that fell through, he went to United, rather than Juventus. But why I asked myself? Only logical explanation is spite. To go to that club as Captain of Arsenal is an awful thing. He did it to spite Arsenal but next season we will have the last word.

  21. Manthan says:

    Bryan,
    I find your point a valid one… Attitude is what is missing from arsenal from many years AF won’t tolerate defeat agaisnt opposition and they will blast at the players and drop underperformer but in arsenal arsene plays same player again and again if he is not performing well… I remember nasri quoting last year while playing for MANC “If we wont play properly coach will drop me unlike arsenal where manager have heartfeeling with you and give you second chance”….

  22. LB says:

    Good read Johnnie, thanks.

  23. GunnerN5 says:

    Personally I’ve got a very different attitude towards players leaving the club.

    In a perfect world we would retain our best players until the club wanted to trade them, but that would make for a very one sided contract giving all the power to the club and little or none to the player.

    Players, just like clubs, need to be able to determine their future and I believe that they have every right to do just that.

    In the business world we are free to work where we please and can negotiate ourselves in or out of a contract – why should it be any different for football players.

    I guess the difference is fans are still “tribal” and take offence at players having the temerity to want to move on, but if we take the emotion out of the situation and put ourselves in the same position we would most likely do the same thing as the players.

    It’s simply a sign of the times and is here to stay.

    I wish the players that have left no harm as they have made a personal choice to improveeither their chances of winning some trophies or have bettered their income – loyalty is long gone.

  24. Bryan says:

    GM
    Yes City blew it earlier but certainly were not walking it but then Man U had a 7 point lead & blew it, so not sure how you can dissagree, as they are the facts ???

  25. Shard says:

    I find it hard to really feel anything regarding RVP’s transfer. Sure, he went to ManU and that sucks. And ManU winning the title because of him would suck too. But my attention is towards Arsenal. Who cares what his motivation was, what MU paid him, what he wins there, and whether he gets injured or not. It is nothing to do with my team. Could the club have held onto his contract? Sure. Would it have been better for us to do that? That’s nearly impossible to say. As pointed out above, we do not know whether we would have bought the players we did if he were staying. We do not know what sort of form RVP would have carried, what his attitude would be like, whether he would get injured again etc. All I have for RVP is contempt for his statement. Because that is exactly what it deserves. If someone wants to disagree and say Arsenal aren’t winning trophies, lack ambition etc etc, I will just say that my loyalties are towards Arsenal, and not towards RVP’s feelings or desires. His statement was self serving, and harmful towards Arsenal, so f*** him.

    The way I see it, getting that money and getting the new players in a year early, is one step further down to building a new team in the post-Cesc era. Delaying that step by holding on to his contract and not getting any money for him would just have delayed the inevitable, and might have proven worse for us. We’ve got Cazorla, and Podolski and Giroud. ManU can have RVP’s greedy badger ass. They still have to pay him for 5 years. So what if they win the title this year? We’ll have 4 more years, 4 chances, to rub their and RVP’s nose in it, and I think we’ve started down the road to having a squad that is ready to challenge, especially with the money coming in with the Emirates deal.

  26. Bryan says:

    Manthan
    Yes I agree with for example at any other big club Sagna would of been dropped by now as he has been rubbish for about 10 games now but for some reason he starts everytime

  27. Shard says:

    Ugh..I hate the ‘this is not the way Ferguson does it’ argument. I really do.. Wenger is not Ferguson, and thank God for that.

  28. jnyc says:

    I have to admit that under fergie united always seem to overperform, so they might have found a way without vp. But i cant help but feel that buying vp was the magic move saf made this season, he did seem very intent on getting him. —-
    RASP, the one story that i believe about how it happened is this:
    i was watching the koln preseason match and vp looked so disturbed and out of himself, ive never seen him like that. He couldnt even pretend to look normal. The rumour we heard later was that vp was impressed with the cazorla addition as well as the others, and was considering softening his stance with us, or at least resigning himself to play out his last season, BUT Arsene told him just before the match that he was going to be sold if we could get enough in return. —
    to me , this story explained how he looked that day. —-
    i know it doesnt really matter now. We just have to start playing up to our level, and if we make chamos league spot, i will be happy,- not as a trophy, but that we can continue our development going upward next season.

  29. LB says:

    Well said Shard 2.40, it drives me mad as well.

  30. jnyc says:

    Well said shard. I like the spirit!

  31. Bryan says:

    The only thing that worries me, is we have incredibly patient fans & after reading views on here, I feel like I’m hearing the same as I was 3 years a go, that we are not to far away but the only difference now is that we will not be crippled by money issues. Time will tell on the money side, I’m not so convinced it will change. When the season finishes, whether we have got a CL place or not, money has got to be invested in some top quality because 2nd, let alone 4th is not good enough for this club, we should always be trying to finish 1st

  32. Shard says:

    jnyc

    Didn’t Ferguson recently say in a press conference that they worked on RVP’s transfer for 4 months? His statement was designed to force the club to sell him, and I think that would only be because he already knew exactly what was on offer elsewhere, and not to do with any ambition or lack of, on Arsenal’s part. I don’t believe he’d changed his mind at the end, simply because we signed Cazorla. Even if he did, Wenger was absolutely correct to sell him. We don’t need an RVP doing us the favour of staying at Arsenal. More likely though, he was just listless (I take your word that he was) because he was leaving behind 8 years of his life, and ruining his legacy while doing it.

  33. I guess you are right N5 – more fool me for believing a word that judas scum said, and any of this:

    “The bottom line is that I want to win trophies with Arsenal, not with anybody else. I know you can win trophies in many countries and in many ways, but I want to do that in our way and in an Arsenal shirt.

    ‘I’m sure I could win things at another team in another country, but would it feel like our trophy, my trophy? I’m not sure it would. Anything we win here will come from the heart and that’s what I want. It’s my dream and I see no point in speaking about other teams when I have these dreams. I think other people know that about me; I’m just hungry to win with Arsenal and that’s it ”

    The last effing time I ever believe a player pledging loyalty.

  34. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Back to talk post later
    In case you didnt know, first ACN semi final on itv4 now.

  35. GunnerN5 says:

    chary:

    That dosen’t change the basic fact that he has/had the right to determine his own future.

  36. I didn’t say he had no right, N5; I think Arseblog sums up some of how I feel like this:

    “On Match of the Day, just after we’d beaten West Brom 3-2 to secure Champions League football, van Persie was asked about his future. He spouted the usual platitudes and then said, “Whatever happens I’ll always be a Gunner.”

    Sorry Robin, you’re not a Gunner. You don’t do what you did and sign for Man United and remain one of us. The Gunners are the guys who will play for us this season, and that’s where our focus has got to be. I won’t wish you well, I won’t say thanks for everything, you’re just a guy who played for us, scored some great goals, and then chucked it all back in our faces.”

    Prize front bottom in my book.

  37. Bryan says:

    Lets be realistic here, I work for a company that I love but after being there a long time, I keep on watching the best members of the staff leaving & getting paid more & having more success in their acievements/goals elsewhere. I still love the place I work but know I am not getting any younger & the opportunities will not be there forever, so eventually, sadly I go & instantly I start tasting success.
    In any other field of employment, we would not begrudge him but football is a different kettle of fish.
    How often when players have quit do they then support the team that they played for longest because that club is closest to their heart.
    We all say things, that we maybe should not have said or say it because we have been hurt by the ones close to us.
    I believe he would still be here if the club showed ambition but for me, they have not been doing that for along time now

  38. Red Arse says:

    Well written, Johnnie! :-)

    The Van Persie departure interests me only in so far as how many variations there are as to the reason(s), why Van Persie left, and, with all due respect, it is all only conjecture.

    Whatever the reason, it is all history, and does not matter one jot.

    We let him go a year early, and were compensated for it. With that money, we were able to invest in other players. That’s it.

    We all need to remember that fans are committed to the club for life and see events from a naturally blinkered Arsenal perspective, and loyalty is part of the deal. [well for most of us.]

    I agree with GN5, players are professional ‘guns for hire’ and sell their skills for a given period, to the highest bidder. Their contracts are fixed term, arms length business commitments and do not contain a ‘loyalty’ clause.

    That works two ways, because if the club choose to get rid of a player by trading him out, on loan or permanently, as Arsenal have been trying to do with Chamakh, Arshavin, Bendtner etc, there is no loyalty involved with that decision either.

    The player has to go, his only other choice is to cling on to the remaining portion of his contract, but that usually comes at the cost of not playing.

    I have always regretted RvP leaving, because it weakened our team/club, but I do not bear him any ill will – it is just business.

    Personally, I have entered into contracts where the work interested me and the pay was acceptable. When I found somewhere where the work seemed just as enjoyable and ‘stretched’ my capabilities more, and where the pay was better, I went. What of it? It was just my career choice.

    Ditto Rip van Persie.

  39. GunnerN5 says:

    Chary:

    We think very differently, my emotions are displayed during and immediately after a game – I don’t get emotional about past events I just try to learn from them.

  40. jnyc says:

    Yeah Shard, its possible manu made enqueries early on, but that we didnt get serious til the end. —-

    i know we need to move forward, and stop looking back. This was my last writing about vp leaving. :-) i do like our players now, including giroud. Maybe i just love anybody who puts on the uniform. —-
    the better question will be why we underperformed so much, and what we can do to change it.i guess thats what we do here all the time, especially this season. Its not too late to secure the champs league or even third.

  41. I think our tribalism manifests itself in different ways N5, equally valid but personal choices. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this because we hold diametrically opposed views on this and that’s fine.

    Agreed his departure is a past event which can have no influence upon the here and now, except of course he is scoring for our competitor(assuming we still compete for the League) and already he has scored against us at Old Toilet. Every goal he scores is a two fingered salute at us for giving – yes GIVING David/whoever-you-are to ManUre.

    Yes, that dutch bloke has left and players will leave us in future but what marked his departure out, to my eyes, is his destination and the fact he was our Captain, adding to the belief we sell our Captains year in, year out.

    It’ll be interesting to see the reception he gets when he returns to Ashburton grove later this season.

    I feel moved to volunteer to write a pre match for then full of invective and rabble rousing against “that dutch bloke”..

    But Raspers is far too level-headed to allow me to run riot on one of my pet hates in a headline post.

  42. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks johnnie.

    At the end of the day, and now the dust has settled i forgive RVP. i told him this personaly the night i broke into his house and tied him to a chair. He was very understanding.

    players are players and fans are errr…fans.

    Players come and go but we stay loyal. Unless your that dave geezer from earlier. He will probably be folling Boca Juniours in a few weeks. He might even become an Arsenal fan for a while. That would be nice. hahaha

  43. Redders, if you say players moving from club to club is just like ordinary people moving from employer to employer then does that not mean a football club is a business like any other, or as Karen Brady famously said “running a football club is just like selling beans” or something like that ?

  44. RockyLives says:

    Johnnie
    Fine piece and I have enjoyed reading people’s responses to it.

    None of us really know the whys and wherefores, but if I had to guess I would say BSR left for money and medals both.

    He’s gone, I don’t hate him but I don’t like him. Time to move on.

    I loved this comment from Shard about the situation:
    “…getting that money and getting the new players in a year early, is one step further down to building a new team in the post-Cesc era. Delaying that step by holding on to his contract and not getting any money for him would just have delayed the inevitable…”

    I think Shard has hit the nail on the head. After the Invincibles, AW’s next great project was the Cesc team, based on youth (in a time of austerity) and an attempt to play Barca style. That project came so, so close to glory (particularly in 2008) but ultimately was found wanting.

    In the end AW was forced to abandon it not through choice, but because the players themselves gave up on the project – most notably Cesc. Shard is right in saying that BSR’s departure is the last act in that drama.

    Now, even though AW may not have wanted to be in the position he finds himself in, he has been forced to start creating a new team. I think he has learnt from the mistakes of the Cesc years – and now that we have more money available he also has a freer hand to spend where necessary.

    If I was to focus on the single biggest mistake of the Cesc project, it would be that we lacked one or two characters in the squad with the force of personality to drive others onwards when the going got tough. I think AW has been trying to rectify that by buying experienced internationals like Pod and the BFG, but ironically the missing ingredient appears to have been found in the shape of a little lad from Hertfordshire called Jack.

    I am optimistic for the future.

  45. Right, that’s enough from me.

  46. Red Arse says:

    Sorry, CharyB, but I have no doubt that football clubs, their staff and the players are engaged in business.

    Now that statement needs qualifying, because there are anomalies and stress fractures that are caused by the footballing ‘non-businesses’ run by the growing number of oligarch and oily clubs, altho’ even their club/player relationships are straight forward contractual arrangements.

    The whole reason that we have football clubs (or any other sporting clubs) is because of the fans.

    The fans are NOT business entities. They are voluntarily and very personally attached to their clubs for life — and that is where there is an inevitable mismatch between the hopes, aspirations and expectations of the fans and the hierarchy of the clubs, and more especially the interests of the players who are mercenaries employed by those clubs.

    Sorry to be analytical, CharyB, but I think wearing your accountant’s hat you would find that to be the case.

    As a hot blooded, passionate and committed fan, I understand you saying “bollix to that” — and you often do!! :D

  47. Red Arse says:

    Good to hear you and my nemesis Shard have found such common ground, Rocky. :-)

    Your optimistic assessment of AW building yet another new team, seems to indicate that you see him as the captain steering the good ship Arsenal through turbulent waters.

    Me? I see it more as the ship being haplessly tossed hither and thither at the behest of every prevailing choppy wave, at the moment!

  48. RockyLives says:

    Redders
    Good analogy. I think we have been “tossed hither and thither at the behest of every prevailing choppy wave” for some time now because the engine (money) was broken.

    Now it’s sputtering back to life, Arsene has is Souwester on and is still at the helm and, although the seas are still turbulent, we are starting to make headway again…

    Is that a break in the clouds ahead (FFP)? Or an impending asteroid impact… difficult to tell.

  49. Red Arse says:

    I think it’s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  50. jnyc says:

    Great stuff Rocky, TMHT you made me lol

  51. Big Raddy says:

    Johny. Thought provoking post.

    I don’t dislike RvP. He made me proud to be a Gooner on too many occasions for me to disrespect him.

    That he chose to further his career away from Arsenal is hugely disappointing but ultimately it was AW’s call. For two reasons:,

    Firstly AW refused to buy the type of player who could assist RvP towards winning trophies. At a time when we desperately needed a Cesc/Nasri replacement AW bought players who were good but not the best. Arteta is a fine player but no Alonso/Pique/Schweinsteiger etc etc.

    So RvP understandably lost his belief in AW’s project.

    Secondly, His sale to MU was purely for Arsenal’s financial gain. If it is true RvP wanted to go to Juve but Juve refused to accept our valuation, then it was a financial decision.

  52. David says:

    Goonermichael. Read the sensible statement by rasp and ask yourself Who really is the knobhead , just wake up and look at what is going on with your team I have nothing at all against arsenal
    And I don’t like their fans being led by the nose by arse ,
    Sorry I only speak the truth

  53. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Dave, theres room for only one Knobhead on here and thats me. if you think you or GM are going to take my Knob away, then forget it.

    And with all due respects Dave, your entitled to your opinion but we do know more about our club than you do.

  54. Red Arse says:

    Terry,

    That David is a speculum in Manure clothing!!

  55. Big Raddy says:

    RA. No, he isn’t …… David is in Manchester

    But as Terry says, we know much more about our club than David does or ever will.

  56. Rasp says:

    Hang on, when have I said anything that agrees with ‘David’ today?

    I’m very much in the Raddy camp when it comes to my feelings towards RvP. Great memories (particularly in his last season) – shame he chose to go to a direct rival. I believe his decision was influenced by a combination of his age, seeking a new challenge, the desire for trophies and financial gain.

  57. Bryan says:

    Big Raddy
    Unless of course he is David Dein haha

  58. Shard says:

    Rocky and RA,

    Yes, I think Rocky and I are on common ground, or getting along swimmingly, since there is a moving through water analogy.

    All the players may go, Wenger may go, but it will still, for a long long time to follow, be Wenger’s ship because of how he has completely remodelled it, and how his influence has upgraded the entire navy, some of whom now using turbocharged engines drop their bombs on, or near us, causing more choppy waters. Hehe.. I think I shouldn’t stretch the ship analogy too far, but you get the ‘drift’, don’t you? :D

  59. RockyLives says:

    Haha – I like it Shard.

    I wonder if we could come up with a team of footballers with a maritime theme…

    I’ll set the ball rolling with David Seaman (obviously) and Paul Mariner.

  60. Joe says:

    Just a point Dave you are a Manu fan why should you care what Wenger is doing to Arsenal fans and the club. I don’t give a Fu*k what the Glazers are doing to your club.

  61. Red Arse says:

    Raddy,

    You have depressed me beyond reason.

    To think that there is someone who writes prose like ‘you know who’, and who punctuates like him and uses weirdly odd CAPITALS, who talks drivel, AND is purportedly a Manure fan ‘sympathizing’ with Arsenal fans …………… it’s either a MIRACLE, or there are two of the bas****s!!

  62. Shard says:

    jnyc,

    I think why we underperform is due to lack of continuity in the team.

    At the start of 2006-07, we lost Pires and essentially Henry (even though he left a year later), on the back of losing Vieira and Edu the year before, which made it a year of consolidation. The next year, we should have won the title (I will always always say it was the referees that took that title away from us).

    2008-09 started with losing 3 of our midfield 4 (Rosicky to injury), so also a year of consolidation, and the next year we lost Adebayor and Toure, meaning we ran out of steam in the league by March, although till then we were close, and we had clearly improved over the previous year.

    2010-11, we were within reach of 4 trophies till Feb, losing on an error in the final of League Cup, (which led to many fans giving up on the team, including the AST) losing in the CL to Barca on an incredible red card, and eventually the team followed some fans, and gave up on itself. The point is, stability led to improvement.

    So after Cesc, in 11-12, we’ve had another rebuilding, but where an important player was finally fit enough to help our campaign. In 12-13, the lack of stability continues, but I think as a team we just look better than the last season, even if the points tally isn’t as good (or is worse, if you prefer)

    But with the contracts of almost all our important players (except Sagna) now signed, we should be able to maintain stability, and actually add to the team. Of course, if we do miss out on CL, it would be a great irony since it would be akin to falling at the last hurdle, but even then, I think we should have enough at the club, to progress next season. Any period of stability, even of one year, has led to us being good enough to be genuine title contenders until deep in the season. I think this is because, similar to the famed La Masia system, Wengerball takes a little getting used to, since it relies so heavily on teamwork.

  63. David says:

    Terry man very sorry to attemp to usurp you knob status please accept my apology , I am David born and bRED in Manchester
    I know less about arse than any of you I agree ! But I used to enjoy
    The red blooded battles with Manu and arsenal so I wish arsenal well , I hope you are back to your best soon , I look forward to that
    As for Rvp many great players have passed through old t Rvp will be another but that is all . So good luck to you all but blindly accepting anything is good for nobody ……my last word , David

  64. Shard says:

    Rocky,
    Does Carlos Vela count? (Vela means sail in Spanish)

  65. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    No problem Dave. My Knob is content. hahaha

  66. RockyLives says:

    Shard
    definitely – nice one!

    Am I allowed Kanu (canoe :) )?

  67. Shard says:

    Haha, Rocky, I think that one’s a little naughty. Let’s keep him on the subs bench for now, to fill in in case of need :)

    What about Sunderland, being an important shipping destination and all?? :)

    Have there been any Arsenal players named Bowman, or Cox, or Stern?

  68. RockyLives says:

    “Subs bench” – very good!

    There must have been a player called Keel somewhere along the way (and by the way, they don’t have to be ex-Arsenal – anyone’s allowed in this team!)

  69. RockyLives says:

    George BOATeng
    Michael Carrick (carrick is an alternative spelling of carack, which is a type of galleon).
    Dion Dublin (another port)
    William Galleass
    Robbie Savage (Savage Seas – was a TV documentary series)
    Sebastien SQUALLacci

    OK, I give up…

  70. Shard says:

    What about Bend-tner? Or Cole to stoke the flames?

  71. RockyLives says:

    :)

  72. RockyLives says:

    Thomas Helmer!

  73. Shard says:

    Jack Wilshere.. Jack is slang for sailor..Or at least I think so.

    There must also have been a Jolly Roger of a footballer obviously.

  74. Shard says:

    Helmer..I like it :)

  75. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Roger, Helmet, John Thomas? whats got into you two?? hahaha

  76. RockyLives says:

    Better stop Shard – I think we’ve scared everyone off…

  77. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Fine read Johnnie, thanks.
    Would RvP have stayed even if we’d offered him the same as Utd? I don’t think so. Plus, I happen to believe £24m for a player who was bound to be injured this season was good business :-)

  78. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Am I right in thinking Hodgson sees Ox more as an AM?
    If so, I really hope he starts, or at least plays some part tonight.

  79. Shard says:

    Haha Rocky.. I think we have a team anyway, ready to beat these landlubbers any day :)

  80. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Razor Rudder?

  81. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Hi
    Ramsey out of Wales game calf injury

  82. RockyLives says:

    Agreed Shard :)

    Micky
    I hope none of our players starts tonight and I hope if they do, none is made to play 90 mins.

    When it comes to international footy I couldn’t give a Bale’s.

    On the other hand, an England team with the likes of Jack, Theo, Ox and Gibbs would be something worth getting behind in the next major tournament.

  83. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Wayne Bridge

  84. RockyLives says:

    I won’t be able to watch the game live, but I’m sure Rasp and Peaches would appreciate an “Arsenal Watch” report on how our boys do against Brazil, to use as a Post tomorrow…

    Any takers?

  85. RockyLives says:

    Micky
    Bridge – clever!

  86. Shard says:

    Don’t forget Jenkinson, Rocky.

    Does anyone know if RVP is playing for the Netherlands tonight? I see they are playing Italy. Any chance Gattuso still makes the national team? :)

  87. RockyLives says:

    I think the supporters for this maritime team should all come from Newcastle: The TsoonArmy

  88. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Trouble is Rocky, I would only watch England if an Arsenal player was in the team, then there’s the fact that I’d always watch Brasil, so I’m hooked line and sinker tonight.

  89. RockyLives says:

    Shard
    BSR always used to get crocked for us when he was on international duty.

    Here’s hoping…

  90. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Them and The Seagulls

  91. Shard says:

    Rocky,

    Yeah there was this amazing period where he’d actually played more games for the national team than he had for Arsenal.

  92. RockyLives says:

    I think I remember that period Shard. It was called “his Arsenal career.”

  93. Shard says:

    Rocky,
    :)

    And also :) for TsoonArmy

  94. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Off to pick up son from footie practice. Back for the game.

  95. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    I fancy wngland to win this as the brazilans won’t be used to the weather,I bet they will wear tights and gloves.

    Cold no its mild tonight

  96. slime says:

    Wilshere is too good! :)

    Walcott injured :(

    The triangle of Gerrard, Cleverley, Wilshere and Rooney could be very good.

    As for RVP, why are we still talking about him? F*** him.

  97. slime says:

    That’s obviously a diamond, not a triangle!

  98. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Slime forget about RVP let’s move on together

  99. RockyLives says:

    Slime
    Give it a rest with all this RVP stuff will you?

    Who scored for England?

  100. RockyLives says:

    Slime
    Forgot the :)

  101. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Rocky it was Wayne looney

  102. RockyLives says:

    Thanks Sheep
    Grannies everywhere will rejoice.

  103. RockyLives says:

    By the way Sheep, did you see what a lot of fun you started last night with those lists :)

  104. Big Raddy says:

    JW playing beautifully.

  105. slime says:

    Sorry RL,

    I really should stop talking about him!

    On a totally different topic, the England goal was created by Arsenal, but finished in Manchester! :lol:

  106. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Yes rocky it a welsh drinking game call top 5
    Glad you all enjoyed it as it was a laugh,ps Wales are one up
    Much love

  107. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Sheep news.com

    Sheep is watching Wales Ramsey non starter injured and Gareth bale is playing like a chimp on Prozac

  108. GoonerB says:

    Jnyc, great post today. I won’t mention too much about RVP as I think it has all been said earlier and the comments have moved on. Just got back to see the England game and I have to say that the England goal may have been well taken and scored by Rooney but it was made in Arsenal. JW and TW combining brilliantly. Theo has made a few wrong choices but he is such a dangerous player, but the main man is easily Jack. I may have my rose tinted spectacles on but he is for me the best player out there at the moment which is no mean feat when you look at some of the Brazilians.

  109. Big Raddy says:

    Get Theo off, he is limping.

  110. Big Raddy says:

    & JW who looks tired. It’s only a friendly

  111. Rasp says:

    We’re in dire need of a post for tomorrow – any offers?

  112. Big Raddy says:

    Can’t Rasp. Another exam tomorrow.

  113. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Believe in the sheep look

    February 6, 2013 at 7:21 pm
    I fancy wngland to win this as the brazilans won’t be used to the weather,I bet they will wear tights and gloves.

    Much love

  114. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Yes, sheepy, and the way they played tonight they will be wearing stockings and frilly knickers

    Jack was different class and Theo wernt bad either. Nice, very nice.

  115. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Good night Terence
    Wales won as did England bale scored for Wales yet another cracker.
    The spurs twat

  116. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Happy sheep counting Sheepy

  117. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    Loved ur comment terry earlier the only knob head in hear is me ,
    Lol made me laugh

  118. jnyc says:

    SHARD, i totally agree about lack of continuity being a real problem. I mentioned that this season we fielded three new starters from three different leagues. No prem experience. And all attacking players. Not to mention song going ( though i was happy with that ) — i believe arsene himself has stated in the past that one or two new players is the maximum u can do.

  119. Sheep Hagger ™ says:

    “Thank you and goodnight – much love”,
    Sheep Hagger™.

  120. goonerjake says:

    Great win for England tonight!
    Jack was great!
    Walcott unplayable when in that mood hope hes not injured

  121. Gooner In Exile says:

    Johnnie thanks for a well written post, and a good read.

    For me this line sums up how I feel about our season:

    “I don’t feel like the answer was in the January transfer window, it’s just about playing better than we have been.”

    It sounds very basic but given the players we have I think we should have a better points return than currently amassed.

    We saw tonight why Jack Wilshere is seen by many to be the future for Arsenal and England, I saw a funny tweet earlier that said something like. “Midfield three of Wilshere, Lampard and Gerrard, what an honour…..for Gerrard and Lampard”

    At the same time we saw the power the purple conked one has over the FA, Cleverly and Wellbeck first to be hauled off. While Jack “Arsene shouldn’t play him so much” Wilshere got the full 90 minutes….okay it may say as much about what he brings to the pitch as it does about Fergies control but I smell a rat.

    Finally anyone else feel like we dodged a bullet getting Monreal and not Baines? I thought Baines was at fault on the weekend for Everton for the goals conceded and when he was on tonight with players intent on pass and move he looked out of his depth.

  122. Bryan
    If you read this
    City were by far the best team last season. They don’t have the experience that the mancs have in closing out a title. The mancs had an 8 point lead when we beat city and they blew it. they also conceded 4 goals at home to Everton. City also beat them home and away. And don’t get me started on the refs.

  123. GIE
    The premier league is fixed. I thought that was fairly obvious.

    Does anyone know how our players did tonight? I’ve been out and just got home. I hear Koz is injured

  124. Gooner In Exile says:

    Heard the same GM, which is worrying, Djourou out on loan, TV injured still (?), so do we start Squid or Miquel alongside BFG? Or do we shift Bacary in to CB and play Jenkinson at right back?

  125. Gooner In Exile says:

    Theo and Jack did very well probably two of the best on the park all night, what is worrying is how much Rooney clearly enjoys playing with Jack.

  126. I heard TV was on the bench so hopefully he’s OK.

  127. Maybe we’ll buy him then :) The mancs couldn’t afford Jack he ‘s a £40m plus player now

  128. RockyLives says:

    GM
    you mean he’s worth £5m more than Carroll?

  129. If you put it that way Rocky a £90m player. I’m off to bed. night night

  130. RockyLives says:

    Night GM :)

  131. Manthan says:

    Jacky Boy is the announced as MOM for brazil vs england… Future Gunners and england Captain.. <3

  132. Manthan says:

    Coming to building new team… AW is again building a new team this time with british core…. If no one leave gunners for next two years and others player coming in I see arsenal winning Trophy again…. Team is gelling now well they understand each other properly and main thing is all the youngster have arsenal in thier heart…. Hope to see Jenks next year playing reguarly he is a great talent if he warms the bench more he will loose his confidence… AW should give him one or two match in a month……

  133. kelsey says:

    Burkina Faso a household name in World football :)

  134. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning all
    I’ll do a very brief Arsenal eyed match thoughts

  135. Morning all

    Thank you Micky :)

  136. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Sorry can’t chat, work calls. Done Peaches. Back later hopefully.

  137. New Post …………………

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