The revolving door – Where’s the legacy?

“…let us sit upon the ground
And tell sad stories of the death of kings”
                                    ~King Richard, Richard II

What a start to the season last weekend. It started with the heir apparent running off before his coronation, continued through a war of attrition in our first game, and ended with us Songless. It’s the two men who’ve left I’d like to address as one word has been bothering me with regards to the way players seem to leave us these days…

Legacy.

I go to games with my dad, who drives 300 miles to games and has been going to the Arsenal for 50 years. I learned a lot about the history of the club, the players who’ve passed through and the managers who’ve overseen it all from him. My dad always…ALWAYS… speaks well of the players of the ‘60s, ‘70s, early ‘80s even…and the late ‘80s, ‘90s and early 2000s he gets misty eyed about them. Players like McLintock, Radford, George, Graham, Rix, Brady, Nicholas, Merson (responsible for a haircut my dad made me have that I’ve never lived down) and more are remembered very fondly……but time moved on and so did they.

Over the last few years we’ve seen a procession of players sold by Wenger. This is nothing new, he did it before the oil barons started throwing their cash at him. Shockingly, even Rioch, Graham, Howe and Neill sold players. The managers before them sold players, too. Were we angry? Rarely. Why do we get so angry now? It’s how they leave.

Brady left us way too early…my dad was gutted, not angry (even though he’d named my brother after him in ‘78!). McLintock went off to ply his trade in west London just two years after captaining us to the Double. George…Derby….Graham? Manchester United. Were people angry? No…disappointed. When Frank Stapleton went to Manchester United, though…that’s recalled with some resentment as he forced through a move to Old Trafford, with the fee having to be set by a tribunal…he was top scorer for three years, part of a team that went to Wembley three seasons on the spin, scoring in game against Man Utd…but now? Persona non grata as far my old man is concerned.

More recently, in the Wenger era, we’ve become Barcelona’s favourite shop. Hleb and Song have left in acrimonious circumstances…Henry and Fabregas only slightly less so, with their moves to Catalonia seen as inevitable by most, although neither move was welcomed. But what about the first two they bought? Overmars and Petit left us in 2000 for the Nou Camp. It was dealt with quietly – we got a pile of cash (by 2000 standards) for two of our best players – and it was very much in the traditional manner of moves, nothing but a sense of disappointment and a shout of “good luck” from Arsenal fans.

Then there’s the moves of Adebayor, Nasri, Flamini and most of all Ashley Cole to make my point. Cole…who admitted to nearly crashing when heard of a derisory £3m a year contract offer from Arsenal is now busy revising history to suit his new, 2012 version of events…it’s no longer about the money, y’see, he left to “win the European Cup”. So what if it’s 6 years later? From his armchair made of cash he laughs and shouts “F*** you, Cole don’t care…whatever…you’ll believe any old crap”. The other three, too, have been portrayed as mercenaries. Adebayor seems all set to fill Bogarde’s place in the record books as most expensive reserve team player ever.

Nasri…same as Cole. Bleats about leaving to win things when everybody knows the truth…otherwise why does he feel the need to go on? Two others have made the same move to Eastlands in the Wenger era…both are recalled fondly, neither encounter the boos and vitriol that the other three do. Clichy and Toure. Why? Because they were “good leavers”. When asked about our club, they’re always complementary. They didn’t force through moves publicly, didn’t badmouth the manager, the board, the fans and have acted with humility. See! It can be done!

RVP is a tough one…can see why he left (29, last big contract, wants trophies…*pukes*…), but not the ridiculous statement made on his website. Did he tarnish his legacy? Will it always be one of injuries and treachery or will we remember the glorious goal at Charlton, his magic 2011 and his decent captaincy?

If he went abroad…I’m sure it would be the latter. But Man Utd?! Sure we’ll find out at OT when 4,000 away fans get to vent their feelings…

As for Song – I remember (although I may be mistaken) early on in his Arsenal days, Wenger tried to sign one of the de Boers from Barca. Bid was turned down and he “threatened to go on strike” according to reports. Wenger refused to sign him after that…honourable. Is a player ever right to force through a move? Will Song’s legacy at Arsenal be one of a bad attitude, laziness and forcing his way out?

With all the transfers out of club over the years…which have left you with the worst memories? And which players do you think handled their exits in a way that didn’t tarnish your memory of them?

Written by Rhyle

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113 Responses to The revolving door – Where’s the legacy?

  1. Good piece Rhyle, for me they have to leave and say thank you. They should be man enough to put in a transfer request, I know they lose out doing this but if they did they wouldnt have to make an RvP like statement.

    I think what angers me the most about a player departure is the feeling that they haven’t given their all for a season and then leave.

    RvP is slightly different in this regard as no one can question his performances last season, so much so that none of us thought he was angling for an exit otherwise he would be playing like Nasri and Adebayor did in the latter stages of their careers.

    There are talks abound that we could be in the market for Jesus Nevas, if true then my guess is Theo is not signing a new contract, but in addition Theo isn’t asking to be sold now, he is intending to see out his contract this season, and land a bumper deal at a new club next year on a free transfer, even if we wanted to sell him now I doubt he would accept terms offered anywhere else, as what he can get with no transfer fee will be far higher.

  2. Silentstan says:

    Stop paying players a cut of transfers if they havent ‘asked’ for one would make a huge difference to players attitudes.

  3. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Back in the day, when I started supporting Arsenal, there was a maximum wage and agents where people in long raincoats and trilby hats spying on our enemies. Since then, of course, wages have become astronomical and agents have become the curse of football. They are constantly hawking their clients around the clubs and stirring up discontent within the players own clubs Dein and Song being a strong case in point.

    I remember seeing a photograph, taken through the door of the Arsenal boardroom, of Alan Ball signing his new contract, his only advisor was his father who was not allowed into the room.

    Agents? String ‘em all up!

  4. Nizam says:

    The agents are the devils. If they can move a player,their commission is not insignificant.That is why all these guys need to be licensed.
    As for Arsenal,I am afraid unless Wenger wins a trophy and soon,more of the top guys will want to move. His policy aint working so he must change.His purchase of experienced players is a sign.
    Next he must look at the tactical side. Why do the gunners continue to lose to MU and other conuter attacking sides?
    It’s elementary really.When Wigan beat the gunners ,there were acres of space and time. Same whe Ronaldo,Rooney,Drogba,etc.They found it so easy to score against Arsenal.
    Why can’t the gunners score against Sunderland?With ten players marking and playing on the break,it aint surprising.Until nWenger can defeat anti soccer teams,Arsenal will find it tough to win the epl.

  5. Great post Rhyle.
    My nightmare exit was Stapleton, I also was gutted when Clive Allen left without even playing, bizarre, but then again we did get our very own “King Kenny”.
    Players come and go, i think history always tells us that life goes on, AFC is always evolving.
    It always seems like Barca are hunting our players, we have to remember that we are an elite club, and there are only a select few clubs on a par with us and even less that are above us and more appealing. If AFC is not suited to a player anymore then their choices are limited, look at RVP this summer. How we got 24m is amazing business considering the lack of interest.
    Anyway i’m rambling, i think this is a different Arsenal now, they’ve had enough of been bullied, the gloves are off.

  6. dandan says:

    Taken from today’s Times
    Gary Jacob

    After two months of posturing and caution, be prepared for ten days of madness and abandon.

    The compelling end of the summer transfer window will be met with equal amounts of dread, anticipation, excitement and relief but it is time for an overhaul of the system.

    The summer window should be shortened to a fortnight and close before the start of the season and the January window should be abandoned all together and Premier League squads set in stone for the season.

    The move would cut out the uncertainty, unrest, distraction and tedium of the window and players and managers would be solely able to focus on football.

    If you want to add some razzmatazz and drama to the finale, look to Italy, where the clubs collectively meet in a hotel on the last day to negotiate at the eleventh hour.

    Players want to know where they are playing on July 1, managers like to know their squad on August 1 and chief executives like to do their deals on August 31.That probably explains why about a quarter of all transfers in the Premier League are completed in the final week, about half in August (see last year’s figures).

    And some of those deals, such as Luka Modric’s proposed move to Real Madrid, have been bubbling for three months. Tottenham Hotspur are adversely affected as the “smaller club”, just as Arsenal were upset by Samir Nasri and Cesc Fabregas seeking a move a year ago, and Wigan Athletic have been disrupted by Chelsea’s advance for Victor Moses.

    Players have emotions and some can’t concentrate on playing while they have the chance to move, while others like, Modric and Clint Dempsey, “train alone”. It is an unnecessary disturbance during the season.

    Even when the window bolts shut on August 31, the strife is not over.

    By November, players who have not been playing regularly can become less committed to the cause as they know there is a possibility of moving in the impending January transfer window.

    Everyone would know where they stand if the squad was fixed for the season and that might be a better test of a manager’s ability, rather than opting for the mid-season chequebook.

    Sure, smaller clubs might sign a player who keeps them up but they also face the threat of losing a key player. Smaller and lower-league clubs sometimes use the window to raise money, but without it, they might better budget for the season.

    The only benefit to the January window is that it allows a foreign player the six months that he might need to settle in for the start of the following campaign and that some clubs can profit from an inflated market in which mistakes can also be made. The recent examples are Liverpool’s £35million purchase of Andy Carroll and Chelsea paying £50million for Fernando Torres.

    Chelsea have committed about £65million on players this summer, a figure that could reach nearly £100million with the addition of a forward this month. A year ago, their summer net spending was £42million after a couple of modest years since Roman Abramovich became owner. In fact, here are the Russian’s net spending by calendar year (2003: £111.3m; 2004, £95.8m; 2005, £27.9m; 2006, £36.2m; 2007 (MINUS) £12m; 2008, £28.2m; 2009, £4.7m; 2010, £15.2m; 2011, £108.75m)

    Strip out Chelsea from the equation this summer, and spending is down for a number of reasons – the west London club have bought from abroad and that money is lost to the UK system, preventing a knock-on effect. Also the game has never been richer, yet the clubs are poorer as they come to terms with overspending in the past and economic realities.

    Clubs have been hampered by being unable to move unwanted players, because of their wages (Tottenham, Arsenal, Manchester City have this issue), and that problem will only get worse as the gulf between the clubs widens.

    What’s more, npower Championship clubs are slashing budgets in the face of a 26 per cent drop in television income and their own financial fair-play rules. In addition, the pool of top players has shrunk, which explains why the biggest clubs chased the same ones, for example, Eden Hazard, Oscar and Robin van Persie.

    There has also not been a takeover of a club and that can stimulate the market as a new owner seeks to make an impression and statement. Queens Park Rangers, who changed ownership a year ago, have spent heavily on wages if not necessary fees.

    Lastly, the promoted clubs look like they are happy to use the money to shore up balance sheets rather than gamble for survival.

    The transfer window was introduced to prevent teams having an unfair advantage to be able to buy a player at any stage of the season.

    It is time to reform again.

  7. Stapleton’s goalscoring record at Arsenal: 1 goal in 3 games.
    Not particularly impressive stats.
    Stapleton’s goalscoring record at United: 1 goal in 3.7 games.
    Even less impressive stats.

    United didn’t win a League title, League Cup, European competition whilst he was there. They did, however, win 2 FA Cup Finals.

    Persona non grata indeed, as far I was, and still am, concerned.

    Good post, Rhyle.

  8. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks Rhyle, nice post.

    I admit to shedding a tear when Brady left. I couldnt understand it then, been only 15. The great news however is that more than 30 years later i still cant understand it. hahaha.

    These players that leave are just a bunch of Poxos. A word ive just made up which is a combination of Twat and Scab.

    There is no loyalty in the game anymore. The influx of money has imporoved the product we watch and how we watch, but conversly has also stained the envoirement surrounding it.

    “Jumpers for goal posts you Bastards”

  9. jeff smith says:

    Don’t be shocked when more players leave especially Vermallen,Sagna,etc. leave. MC are looking for a central defender and had a bid for Luiz rejected.If they offer 25 million for Vermallen will Wenger bite?
    If he does,it will show Arsenal have no ambition and are a selling club. This will set back the club another 7 seasons.
    The board has to make up their mind. Do they want to challenge or take the money now and hope ffp will usher in a new era of restrained spending wages.If the foremer is the case,I hope more season ticket holders will not renew their current status.

  10. Rhyle asks: “With all the transfers out of club over the years…which have left you with the worst memories? And which players do you think handled their exits in a way that didn’t tarnish your memory of them?”

    Big Al says: Here’s an ‘angle’ which I blogged somewhere recently.
    Let’s take the cases of (A) the man we love to hate: NASRI, and (B) the man we love: HENRY.

    When NASRI left us, his departure left a nasty taste in the mouths of some, due to the perceived (or actual) manner of his departure, and in particular, his constant comments and jibes since.

    When HENRY left us, he was still ‘kissing the cannon crest’, followed always by nice comments professing his love of AFC.

    So what is the difference between the two at the end of the day?
    Fact is, regardless of their manner (perceived or actual) they BOTH LEFT.

    So, final food for thought: as for an ‘honesty’ aspect – which player is actually the more honest? Or, in reverse, the least honest. The man who snarls upon leaving, or the man who smiles upon leaving.

    Dare to face the wrath?

  11. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Jeff, as soon as i see someone alude that “Arsenal have no ambition” i know they are talking crap. Arsenal are a breakeven club in the transfer market and live within there means. If Vermallen gets unsettled and wants to leave e.g. Song, then in many cases its better getting rid and look for a replacment. This is what you call living in the real world, not a question of lack of ambition.

    As for the season ticket comment, if you have one why dont you hand yours in. Ime sure someone will snap it up who will get behind the team and understands the Clubs ambition.

  12. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Big Al,

    Henry had given his best, Na€ri was approaching his best, Henry went for a last hurrah, Na€ri for a new Ferrari. Henry would be welcomed like an old friend, Na€ri like a dose of the clap.

    There’s little honesty or loyalty in football today. Sad isn’t it?

  13. NG exactly what I would say, i think thats the thing that sticks in the throat with our recent departures, they all claim to be going off somewhere to win trophies, inevitably a few have done that. 0-44 according to the Sun today….lovely piece as ever bashing Arsenal for having the temerity to not spend what we don’t have. (3 of the medal winners in their list were Kanu, Campbell (Portsmouth FA Cup) and Larsson (Brum Carling Cup) is anyone telling me we should have kept them instead of letting them leave when we did?)

    But lets be honest just what did these players do for us and what have they done for others, have any been instrumental in their new sides success, the only player who you could label that with is Ashley Cole (as much as I hate to say it). The others have been small cogs in a bigger wheel, and others have led them on to glory, which goes to show we shouldn’t be that upset about them leaving.

    As for the Sun here is Andre Santos statement about the speeding issue, a couple of things need clarification, the Sun reported it as if it was a long car chase, and they reported speeds of 130mph, well….

    “I was going to work, to training. It was about 8:30/9am. I was driving on the motorway and I was a bit over the speed limit because I was running a little late. As soon as I saw the police I pulled over. They asked for my papers and I respectfully obliged, knowing they were only doing their job. I had my passport and drivers license with me, and I’m allowed to drive with my [foreign] license for a year.

    They told me I was going to fast, and I ended up missing training. As soon as I arrived I explained everything to the club and Arsenal offered all assistance possible. I have to be in court in September when I’ll present all my papers, i.e, passport, local and foreign driving license. I was going too fast but not as fast as The Sun has reported “

  14. I also hope ST holders don’t renew then i might get one…..but i do hope they don’t expect me to buy it straight from them, and then claim it back when the going gets good again and they like me can’t get a ticket for any game.

    Interesting that so many fans do not want to go, yet there were very few tickets for Sunderland and fewer for Southampton available.

  15. @Norfolk Gooner
    Brilliant reply, mate. Very witty!
    And spot on, too.

  16. @Gooner In Exile
    The reason Song was always late for training was ’cause he flatly refused to speed. Just can’t win can you?

  17. idolx says:

    i remember when Edu left. He wasn’t signing a contract but went with a lot of emotion. That’s how it’s done.

  18. GunnerrN5 says:

    The latest news I can find on our current “summer saga”

    ………………………………………………………………………………….

    Arsenal Sahin switch on hold as Wenger considers option of permanent deal

    The Gunners are still in the driving seat to capture the midfielder amid reports in Spain that the midfielder’s agent has held fresh talks with Liverpool

    Aug 23, 2012 11:30:00 AM

    By Wayne Veysey | Chief Correspondent

    Nuri Sahin’s move to Arsenal from Real Madrid is being held up following a change of heart from Arsene Wenger.

    The Premier League club had reached a breakthrough in their pursuit of the Turkey international by agreeing a season-long loan for the midfielder, including the loan fee and the player’s wages.

    But the deal has stagnated for the second time this week as Wenger deliberates over whether to push for a permanent transfer.

    This has prompted reports in Spain that Sahin’s agent Reza Fazeli has met with senior Liverpool officials in an attempt to revive the possibility of a loan move to Anfield.

    It is understood that Liverpool withdrew their interest in signing the former Borussia Dortmund player last Saturday after learning that he wanted to join Arsenal.

    However, the London club deny that they had planned a photo shoot on Monday ahead of his unveiling, which then had to be cancelled at the last minute.

    Arsenal are confident they are still in the driving seat to capture the 23-year-old, who has been identified by Wenger as a versatile midfielder capable of adapting to his team’s playing style.

    Sahin’s destination is also understood to have been a discussion point in the Luka Modric talks between Real and Tottenham amid rumours that Spurs would prefer the player not to join their north London rivals.

    It is uncertain whether Real are willing to sanction the permanent sale of Sahin even though Jose Mourinho has made it clear that the player will benefit from a season in the Premier League.

    Sahin would strengthen the midfield options of Wenger, who sanctioned the sale of Alex Song to Barcelona for £15 million on Monday and is also likely to be without Jack Wilshere for the first three months of the season through injury.

  19. Norfolk Gooner says:

    More agent interference!

    “This has prompted reports in Spain that Sahin’s agent Reza Fazeli has met with senior Liverpool officials in an attempt to revive the possibility of a loan move to Anfield”.

  20. Rasp says:

    Sahin is just the player pool need – for that reason alone we should sign him …. what strengthens us, weakens them etc etc

  21. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Afternoon all,
    Thanks Rocky and Rhyle for two great posts.
    Well, well, rumours, rumours and rumours. Nothing I particularly like the sound of, but hey, que sera sera.

  22. MickyDidIt89 says:

    What input does Arsene have on transfer fees? All? And is this normal? I thought, and I do not know, that at Utd Ferguson says “I want so and so…dribble… you lot sort it out”. Am I right?

  23. Rasp says:

    Eduardo and Song should keep their opinions of Arsenal to themselves.

    I confidently predict that Song will not start many games this season, will be pretty much overlooked the following season and most probably be sent out on loan or sold the season after that. He will in effect, do a ‘Hleb’

  24. oz gunner says:

    @ Rhyle

    good post, RVP for me is the one that hurts the most and the worst way a player could leave.

    @ Rasp

    I agree, not sure why Edurado is putting his 2 cents worth in, we love the bloke, no need to tarnish it.

    Also agreed in regards to Sahin, they can keep their mitts off him. They go for overrated English players, not quality!

  25. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Rasp, dont be surprised to see Song plenty of games at centre back. Thats why i reckon they bought him.

    Micky, from what ive heard Gazidis say Arsene is srongly consulted on what he thinks is a fair price for a player. Wenger is the football expert not Gazidis or Law.

  26. Rasp says:

    Hi TMHT, yes I read the reports saying they wanted Song as a CB which would be pretty funny when you consider we couldn’t stop him going forward and neglecting his defensive duties. I agree if he plays as a CB he will probably get many more starts, I just can’t see him regularly holding down a MF place when you consider the other players they have.

  27. Rasp says:

    Hi oz, I almost put Sahin’s name in the ‘IN’ column a few days ago, but I do feel it is very much in the balance at the moment. Hopefully the financial strain will be eased if Nik B and Arsh are sold soon and Park sent out on loan.

  28. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Rasp,
    Or Chamakh goes to Spuds
    Mutley laugh :-)

  29. Rasp says:

    @ oz,

    Eduardo was saying that we should not have sold RvP or Song, that implies that we can keep a wantaway player.

    I cannot think of a single instance when keeping a player against his will has been beneficial to a club. Modric was mediocre for the totts last year, Cesc definitely wasn’t himself in his last season at THoF, TH14 became a prima donna … the list goes on.

    Professional footballers (manipulated by their agents) know when they have the power and once they do, it’s all about the best deal for them, not the club. Bergy was probably the last great player in the prem to put loyalty before self gain (although it did help that he wouldn’t fly :? )

  30. Rasp says:

    Hi Micky, I’d love that story to be true but even the tiny totts aren’t that stupid.

    Probably the best deal we could do for Chamakh would be similar to the Sahin situation – a year long loan to a European club giving them the right to buy and us praying he has a stonker of a season.

  31. harry671 says:

    Rhyle, great post mate……..

    Smoke, mirrors, lies, and brown envelopes galore, somewhere over the rainbow, you’ll find the truth……..

    So hard to say, who is in the right and who is truly in the wrong, who was painted whiter than white wrongly or tarred and feathered unfairly. Two sides to every story, truth is seldom easy to understand clearly…..

    For example:

    If you were made an offer verbally and were pretty happy with it, but when you went to sign the contract, the amount had been reduced by 12%, would you be happy and still sign it? Or would you stand your ground and maybe call their bluff? – This is more the way that Ashley left, which is different to how many percieve it….?

    My opinion on other situations…………

    RVP has massively disappointed me, not happy with the direction the club is going? took him 7-8 years to work this out? If he cant see that we were closer than many thought last season and with the new additions we are looking very good…….? OK go abroad, but United? Probably the only destination that I cannot fathom one bit. {Side note: those tweeting insults to him and wife especially, get a life}

    We on the whole (as a club) do cause our own problems, Edu is best example, we only offered him a contract at the last minute and he chose not accept, fair do’s……Others did get offered contracts earlier, ie Nasri, RVP….

    I cant make my mind up with Theo, I cant remember him been offered new terms of late ie 12-18months ago, I feel we have left him too late and he will leave, which some will show much glee over, for me he is a big loss…..

    We lost Pires who still had 2 or 3 good years in him, but offering rolling contract wasnt what he wanted, he needed a bit more security, surely he was worth it???.

    Bergkamp accepted a reoccuring one year deals, maybe because we accepted his travel issues, or just he loved us and understood loyalty…? He is still a god in my house….

    Henry can split opinion and really did when he left, but he obviously won over some of these when he returned. He says the right thing and truly loves the club, the fans and wenger……..Actually his love for the club cost us and him, as he stayed one year too long probably…

    Song is a good example of a very poor attitude, 3 years to go and still manufactures a move, he is in the Adebayor category….less said of those two, stapleton fits in here as well……both of these have been agent instigated…..

    Fabregas with the length of contract should have given one more season for me, yes we all knew he’d end up at Barca, but when it was clear Nasri was going, by leaving as well, he left Wenger very short and showed no loyalty in my humble opinion. That was hugely disappointing for me.

    Flamini again was our mistake, but for me he still let wenger down, by not signing, had we offered earlier he would have signed no hesitation. He knew wenger let diarra leave because of his performances, but still left.

    Alot of these players owed Arsenal FC PLC absolutely nothing but they severely let down the man that made them………The press and social media outlets confuse and distort the truth and make things worse, our club suffers the brunt of the media more often than most and they make more of issues than they need to.

    So in summary, where I see the players sit, my opinion tempered by how they have acted since they left as well as how they acted to get the move, only picked some players not all!!:

    Legends:
    Bergkamp
    Henry
    Pires
    Adams
    Brady

    Nearly Legend:
    Fabregas

    Neutral:
    Edu
    Flamini
    Toure
    Clichy
    Hleb
    Diarra

    Anti Christ / disappointed:
    RVP
    Cole{attitude since he has left}
    Stapleton
    Song
    Adebayor
    Nasri

    Anyway, Fletcher and Jarvis, combined 24million? ~ Madness…..

  32. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Rasp, it would probably be more amusing if they play him in the middle. With his propensity to keep possession better than the likes of Xavi the Catalonian crowd should be in for a treat.

  33. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Harry671,
    TH’s “love for the club cost us and him, as he stayed one year too long probably”. Ahem, cough. Well that and £200k per week, the captains armband, and leading the club out at our new stadium!
    Even with all that, he didn’t give us 100%.
    Having said that, I do think this club loyalty thing is a two edged sword. We will flog them at the drop of a hat as well.

  34. @harry671 says:
    Good blog… but,
    Brady: left too young to be a Legend (hero, maybe)
    Hleb: Anti Christ

    and… Petit: Neutral (?)

  35. rhyle says:

    Thanks for the gentle feedback all…overly generous!…and for your responses, made good reading all.

    Important to note it was written before Adebayor had signed on at Spurs…but there we go!

    Accept that treachery is more common in the age of the agent but…EVERY footballer is still a man with his own mind. HE sets the agenda with the agent. The honeyed words of the agent can only influence if the ear of the player WANTS to be influenced in the first place. As many have quoted on here over the past few weeks…Adams would “sign every contract Arsenal put in front of me without even reading it”…no amount of agent arm twisting would’ve changed his mind.

    Agents may be the pimps but whore players still have to open their legs…and when you consider that…how comes it’s still US that get’s f****d?!

  36. Rasp says:

    We’re short of a post for tomorrow folks (and Saturday come to that) – so get typing and submit a short post to start debate if you’re in the mood …. please :?

  37. rhyle says:

    …what about forcing a move? Always respected Wenger for refusing to sign whichever de boer it was after his strike threat.

    Feel if a player isn’t being picked consistently or the relationship with the manager / teammates has deterioriated to a point of no return then he can ask for a move and try his damnedest, within reason, to make it happen. This does not include striking, speaking to the press or sulking. At the end of the day, the club IS still paying him to provide a particular set of skills to their team…whether that’s on the bench, or on the pitch (even for the stiffs…).

  38. @Oz G

    For me there´s been no pain only gain in the RvP move, likewise Songo, it makes perfect sense because we have cover in the Coq, who I rate as a DM. RvP is great player but will he have another season like his last? I greatly doubt it, I think we´ve sold him at the right time and considering he only had a year left on his contract at the right price. My only problem was (like everyone else´s) his tweet, which showed him in a bad light, that apart all good. I feel the problem for Gooners was the will he won´t he go, bullshit. He didn´t want to talk terms (contract wise) for an absolute age if we hadn´t all hoped he´d prove loyal and realised any player who doesn´t want to talk terms has another agenda we´d all have been fine. It was RvP own actions that had Gooners hoping he cared about the club they love, but he wanted away from the day he wouldn´t re-sign, and in all honesty he has joined the club that statisically has the most chance of captering the prem, so for his last big hurrah both financially and trophee wise, he forced the move he craved.
    I´d just love it if we managed by hook or by crook to finnish above the Manuér this year.

    By the way I´m boating so I´m only replying when I´m in port just in case anyone wonders why I´m not answering questions to posts, like the fact that Jaap Stam was as near an English centre half as makes no difference, to which I agree, but I said no club or team has won the prem without a typical English CH and JS played alongside one, just like those others mentioned did.

  39. RockyLives says:

    Nice piece Rhyle
    I guess one thing we don’t often talk about is how clubs want it all ways. They want their players to be loyal – but they (the clubs) show not the slightest compunction about dumping players deemed surplus to requirements.

    Sometimes they are young prospects who will never make the grade at Arsenal, even though they would give their right arm to play for the first team; other times it’s established players whom the club has decided to offload for whatever reason.

    If Tony Adams was playing today, I suspect he would be at Man City by now.

  40. harry671 says:

    @Mdi….agreed there was a financial gain, but still his love swung the balance in our favour, but for the wrong reasons and yes he shoulf of gone as it wasnt Th14 100% out there….

    @Big Al, maybe Brady did leave too early to be a legend in someway, but his feeling and work now with the club, slips him back into the legend category……Agree on Petit, neutral no real feelings on him or overmars….

    @Rocky, agree as well with you and Mdi, its a double edge sword, clubs cant have it both ways and we drop them as quick as we want….but I think its how you go about your business, which is one of Rhyles points……maintain a sense of dignity…….

    @Rocky, I am going to believe that big Tony would turn down citys millions as well if he was playing today……..

    @Rasp, I had two articles on the go, but one was trumped by Rhyles piece today, I have another, but cant finish for tomorrow, maybe Saturday……

  41. RockyLives says:

    Harry
    You’ve convinced me. Big Tone would stay a Gunner, even in today’s crazy world :)

  42. The Sahin deal is off by all accounts. He’s going to the bindippers as they will pay a larger part of his wages. I’ve never even watched a youtube of him so I don’t care that much. I got a ticket for the chav game this morning though :)

  43. chas says:

    I put a comment on earlier which again seems to have disappeared.

    Anyway, thanks for the post Rhyle.
    Anyone leaving us to go the mancs has to be enemy number one; as far as I’m concerned. Robin van Iscariot and Stapleton are on a par.
    Na$ri and Cashley jointly win the top mercenary award.

  44. neamman says:

    I was most disappointed recently with Diarra, I believe if he had stayed we would have won the EPL that year and he only gave us half a season. Apart from that.. once they leave Arsenal I dont think about them.

  45. Gooner In Exile says:

    If Sahin deal goes through to Liverpool so be it I doubt we could have met his £115k wages at end of season anyway so that’s fine, what would be the point of one season.

    More interesting is that Moses is off to Chelsea for £9m, couldn’t we get in there and steal him from under their noses?

  46. oz gunner says:

    @ Rocky

    Blasphemy!!!!!! Mr Arsenal would never. In my mind he would have bopped Mancini for even inquiring about his services

  47. oz gunner says:

    @ GiE

    god i hope not. I enjoy seeing liverpool play the past it Gerrard, Henderson, and Adam in midfield! Come back Kenny!

  48. chas says:

    GIE,
    We could afford the fee for Moses but not compete on wages.

  49. Rasp says:

    I’m pretty disappointed that it looks like Sahin is going to pool, he will e very good for them. This would be a defining transfer as we were obviously interested in him but let ourselves be outbid by a team that perennially finished below us in the prem.

  50. I had a song for Moses

    Moses is a gooner
    He wears a magic hat
    And when he saw the red sea
    He said I’m parting that

    Never mind

    I’ll get my coat

  51. oz gunner says:

    Who knows whats going on Rasp. We’ve heard it all from the media this week in regards to Sahin.

    Set for photos at Arsenal
    Completed medical
    Delayed because of buy option at end of loan
    Liverpool willing to pay more of his wages
    Likely to go to Liverpool because Arsenal look to buy him now
    Player wants Champions League Football

  52. Rasp
    They generally spend more than us though. Sahin is going to cost them money that we wouldn’t pay. His loan wages would make him our highest paid player.

  53. oz gunner says:

    haha GM, back to the drawing board!

  54. I bet we get a midfielder

  55. Gooner In Exile says:

    Chas do you think Moses is only bothered about wages? I’d look at Chelsea front line and realise I won’t be playing much. Does he want international football? If so he should come and replace Theo. we would still probably double his existing wage, he works hard for his team and I think he could do a job. I know it’s wishful thinking.

  56. Gooner In Exile says:

    Scrap that he is a Nigerian international, I don’t know why I thought he was English.

  57. oz gunner says:

    First we had God (Dennis) and then we can sign Jesus (Navas) and Moses. Arsene is re-writing the Bible!

  58. MickyDidIt89 says:

    ello ello 1 2 1 2 testing

  59. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I just muttered something about Moses and Wright-Phillips and we were only in for Sahin as he was free, but comments vanished.

  60. dandan says:

    Morning Mickey, A week today and we can forget this mickey mouse transfer rubbish and get back to the real world of football, win ,lose or draw, we can start to deal in facts again.

    Had a bad day yesterday took 2 of my young grandchildren to a fun farm play centre and while I was dealing with them some toe rag stole my Ipad.

  61. chas says:

    Morning all,
    Sorry about that, dandan. Bar stewards.

    GIE,
    I think most of them are only bothered about wages.
    It seems Moses played for England up to u21s, so you were right.

  62. Gooner In Exile says:

    Sorry to hear that DanDan.

    Have you been able to wipe the device using FindMyiPad? If you have an iCloud or MobileMe account you should be able to do it from the web. If not speak to Apple they should be able to wipe it and decommission it (if you have serial no/IMEI).

  63. Gooner In Exile says:

    Unfortunately Chas you are probably right.

  64. Gooner In Exile says:

    Just checked Spam for your vanishing comments and they were not there.

  65. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Ah, life as we know it. Morning all.
    dandan, sorry to hear it.
    GiE, brilliant. They can decommission it.

  66. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I’ll do a quick post, if there is nothing else. Any of you have access to see if there’s one lurking?

  67. rhyle says:

    dandan…not cool…check your household insurance, it could well be covered under that.

    Read a great line on twitter with regards to Moses:

    Chelsea have signed Moses, we’re going for Jesus and Man Utd have Judas…

  68. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Looking at the in’s and out’s didgit top right, how’s the book balancing looking? I reckon the big two out more or less balance the big three in. No idea what’s in the kitty from the rest. Anyone?

  69. evonne says:

    didgit :) DidIt – you have too many d’s :)

  70. MickyDidIt89 says:

    No I dodn’t :-)

  71. dandan says:

    Thanks guys, police are on the job, seems that counter from where it was stolen is covered by CCTV. GIE looked at that but don’t have an account or sad to say the know how, will wait till my comp expert visits to try that, have become very defensive computer wise since I got a virus, that destroyed both my windows and McAfee fire walls last week.

  72. Morning Micky – if you’ve got the time to do a didit special that would be grand, thank you :)

  73. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Post posted

  74. dandan says:

    Rhyle thank you have insurance cover but have to decide if it is worth a £50 excess plus increased future premiums for the £400 quid it cost

  75. Slimgingergooner says:

    Someone told me that Jesus (Navas) suffers badly from anxiety and struggled to play away games earlier in his career and this may be a stumbling block with potential transfers. It seems he is the son of God afterall!!

  76. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    dandan, i had my i phone stolen last month. One of the staff let this women with a small child in to the office and though i had my beady eye on her and the kid they somehow managed to nick it. Still cant work it out. Did she have a telescopic arm, punnishing me for all my crude jokes about telescopes? Was she a student of Paul Daniels? I dont know but somehow they managed to nab it.

  77. Slimgingergooner says:

    Will be gutted to see Sahin join Liverpool. If you read between the lines it looks either as though Wenger has got cold feet, or he’s tried to negotiate a buy clause which couldn’t be agreed. Either way it’s a blow because the lad can play. The only upside is that it will still allow us to buy a proper DM, which Sahin isn’t. I could see a cheap LB/CB coming in aswell, hopefully not by the name of Mexes, and a winger if Theo wants out.

    Rasp, it seems you were right to be pessimistic after the Cazorla signing, balancing of the books has well and truly got underway. However, I do think that we may see a replacement or 2.

  78. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Slim :-)
    Anxiety from away games. Wow, that’s having it bad.

  79. Big Raddy says:

    DD. That is horrible.

    Rhyle. I know I have come late to the party but interesting subject for a well written post.

    It is not just loyalty that makes legends is it? If so David O’Leary would be a legend and yet he isn’t thanks to being a dork at Leeds.

    I wonder how the club shafted him after he left to cause such animosity.

  80. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Slim,
    I have also promoted the Book Balancing Theory, and I think its a good one. We have come this far with our sustaining model, and are close to the new sponsorship deals.
    Offload a Chamakh sort or two, and there’s enough for the DM you, rightly in my book, talk of.

  81. Slimgingergooner says:

    Micky,

    Just googled and apparently it’s one of the reasons he hasn’t played much for Spain. He also had a deal in 2005 to go to Chelsea but couldn’t handle being away from home! He’s had lots of therapy and is getting to grips with it, so he may be an option. Interesting stuff though!

  82. Rasp says:

    Hi SGG, I agree. We haven’t progressed as far as I’d hoped – still paying the price for overpaying mediocrity. Sahin would have given us easily the best midfield in the prem, instead he is just the missing ingredient pool are needing and will make them more competitive.

    It’s obvious that Arsenal was Sahin’s preferred choice in footballing terms but pool must have been prepared to pay more to achieve their goals – c’est la vie :(

  83. Big Raddy says:

    Are we to become Real’s version of Wigan?

    No way should we allow a player to improve at AFC and then return to a “bigger” club. Sahin may well be a fine player but he is not proven and has failed at RM – who is to say he would do any better in the PL?

    Without a reasonable buying clause AW should and will refuse this deal.

  84. Slimgingergooner says:

    Micky,

    I believe it’s the right model, just takes a bit of the shine off the Pod, Giroud and Cazorla signings unfortunately. It’s the inability to shift Arshavin, Chamakh and Bendtner that is stalling any more dealings. That’s about £250k in wages right there! Still a week to go though.

  85. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I’m with Big Tatty on the Sahin deal.

  86. Rasp says:

    Morning Raddy, I suspect the deal has broken down due to wages rather than the buy-out clause. Sahin would have been insurance in case Jack has further problems or Ramsey fails to make the grade. A one year loan would have cost less than we’re paying 2 of the players we are hopeful to offload before the end of the window (AA and Bendy)

  87. Slimgingergooner says:

    Rasp, I think the wage rumours are off the mark when it comes to Sahin. After all, Madrid would continue to cover the wage that us or Pool wouldn’t pay. Plus, if rumours are true, the deal was pretty much done on Monday.

  88. Big Raddy says:

    RAsp. That is true but it is also 4m quid towards a better and permanent DM

  89. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Slim,
    I agree with all of that. However, assuming Coquelin is first choice holding midfielder, I’m quite happy with the way we are.
    Sure, I’d rather shift the deadwood and get Buglia, but I’m so happy about the Cazorla signing that content I am.

  90. Brilliant Mr DidIt – what shall we call it?

  91. Rasp says:

    I’m one of those who thinks that a DM per se is not necessary, just a structured and balanced midfield where every player assumes defensive duties. Obviously one or two will sit in front of the back four but fluidity is required to play total football.

  92. evonne says:

    the Independent recons that Sahin deal is done and he’s ours

  93. Rasp says:

    The Sahin situation is about money and nothing else. I fear that it will still be a couple of years before we release ourselves from the legacy of the post Highbury pay scales.

  94. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Oh Rasp,
    You were doing so well, then you mention Total Football. Sigh.
    Specialists my dear, specialsts. Its ok to talk dirty, Total is on holiday :-)

  95. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Peaches,
    Ah. Thinks.

  96. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. I agree – I believe we already have the personnel to make a challenge this season. My concern is the right side of defence.

  97. Liverpool are going to pay him 85k a week apparentley. It’s more (or about the same) than we pay our new signings, If it became permanent he’d be our highest earner.

    sorry to hear about your ipad dandan. There ar some vermin around

  98. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. It is always just about money. We would have BSR and Fatboy if it wasn’t.

    I prefer our methodology.

  99. I agree with Raddy, until Sagna returns the right-hand side is very weak. Jenks is not the answer and by the way Theo kept away from the wing on Saturday he really doesn’t want to play with him so that’s a problem too. Yennaris any better?

  100. Slimgingergooner says:

    Money has ruined football!

    The fact that we are sat here debating a players wages and how it affects the club, rather than getting excited about the possibility of a new signing or the new season! Tragic!

  101. Big Raddy says:

    SSG. 100% agree

  102. Rasp says:

    I agree Raddy, Sagna can’t get back soon enough. Jenks is not ready, we should have been giving le Coq practice at RB as he is the best candidate until BC returns.

  103. oz gunner says:

    @ Rasp

    I agree, this ‘DM’ thing has gotten out of hand. These sorts are moving out of the game, and being replaced with more complete midfielders.

  104. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Slim,
    Blame it on Man City, after all, they signed Steve Daley :-)

  105. Morning Rasp – is your phone on? I’m texting you ……

  106. Rasp says:

    Moning peaches, just looking at today’s post – but you’re in it!

  107. Ooops sorry, I’m out now

  108. rhyle says:

    Think Jenks is going to change a few opinions this year…definite potential there was demonstrated last year and hopefully a year older, a year wiser and cutting out some of the errors that littered his game last year…more worried about left side. Neither Gibbs or Santos are the solution in my book. One has been given chance after chance in the PL and either can’t stay fit or is spending 3 first team games getting back to match fitness, the other is even acknowledged by his international manager as “not a defender”…

    As for DMs…I’m one of those who think we can go two ways, but having a strong, disciplined DM will give us a tactical club in the bag we don’t currently have (and in front of our back four, with wing backs…that offers essential cover). the other option is to go back to 1997 – 2000 and have a “tandem” system with deep-lying midfielders taking it in turns to sit back / maraud forward as Petit / Vieira did then. Even here I think we could do with a bit more quality, especially since we don’t know when Wilshere will return and how long it’ll take to get back to his best when he does…

  109. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Good points Rhyle.
    Sure you can play the Arteta/Jack axis with Santi ahead. Here’s my problem, I want Santi and Ox in midfield, and that definately means a traditional DM.
    Where does Ox play in the first system? The answer is on the wing :-(

  110. Slimgingergooner says:

    Norwich in talks to get Biglia on loan!

  111. Rasp says:

    Morning all…..

    …. New post …..

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