FA Right To Charge Frimpong

I don’t know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that Emmanuel Frimpong does not have a detailed knowledge of the Second World War.

He might have seen a movie or two and he has probably heard of the Nazis, Hitler and the Holocaust without ever achieving any depth of insight or understanding.

If you asked him about the Final Solution, he might well reply that he does not do crosswords.

And if his knowledge of 20th Century warfare is thin, then it’s a safe bet that he will know little of the pogroms of the Middle Ages, when Christians massacred Jewish communities in countries across Europe, including England.

You can’t really blame the lad. He has been caught in a pincer movement between, on the one hand, the woeful inadequacies of what passes for state education in the modern age and, on the other, his gift for football, which will undoubtedly have taken his focus, time and effort away from academic pursuits.

So when he replied to an abusive Twitter troll by calling him a “Scum Yid” I doubt that he realised what he was saying.

Growing up as an Arsenal supporter and, dream of dreams, an Arsenal player, young Emmanuel has probably always associated the word “Yid’ primarily with supporters of our local rivals, even while being aware that it refers to Jewishness.

He must also have known that Tottenham fans often refer to themselves as “Yids” and “Yiddos”.

To Emmanuel it probably carries the same weight as calling a Chelsea fan a “Chav”, or a Liverpool fan a “Bindipper”.

All three terms are offensive and all are used as insults, but only one of them casts a long shadow of hate, persecution and mass murder. For that reason it’s quite right that, in modern society, we refuse to deem “Yid” an acceptable word, just as we refuse to accept words like “Nigger” or “Paki”.

So even though our combative midfield enforcer may not have realised the full scale of the potential offence when he dished out the insult to a Twitterer (who, incidentally, had Tweeted that he hoped Frimpong would suffer broken arms and legs), it was important that the Football Association did the right thing and charged him.

A statement from the FA said Frimpong had been charged because he “posted comments amounting to improper conduct and/or which brought the game into disrepute, which included a reference to ethnic origin, faith or race.”

Frankly, we can’t lambast football bodies for dishing out miniscule fines to national associations whose fans make racist chants, then argue that an Arsenal player who uses a racial insult should not face punishment.

Mind you, if the FA follows UEFA’s lead when it comes to sentencing, then Emmanuel can expect to get 10 push-ups and three Hail Marys.

Hopefully when he gets called before the FA beak, the player will be able to demonstrate that he did not realise the full offensiveness of the word. I imagine he will use ignorance – or at least partial ignorance – as a defence (and probably an honest defence, at that).

The mitigating circumstances should mean he is not punished unduly heavily. Certainly there would be a bad taste in the mouth if Frimpong were to be banned from games while that fine, upstanding Mr Terry walks free despite making clearly racist comments in front of 30,000 people and a TV audience of millions (and I know the FA may still rule in the Terry case, despite a court of law finding him not guilty).

It’s a cliché, but there is no place for racism in football and Emmanuel Frimpong will probably pay the price for crossing the line.

Of course there is a legitimate debate to be had about abuse in football generally. I have never used the term “Yid” in my life. I hate it. But I have hurled all sorts of foul-mouthed abuse at opposition players. I once spent a good 10 minutes in the old Upper East stand at Highbury chanting (along with everyone else) “you’re ginger and you know you are” at Gordon Strachan, who was walking up and down the touchline.

Strachan had a sense of humour and gave us all a smile and a wave, but it was still abuse.

Where are the boundaries? What is reasonable and what is not?

It’s a difficult one but I would appreciate your thoughts.

RockyLives

Note from admin:

The word ‘yid’ is one of just a few that are banned on this site. Any comment containing the word would normally go straight into spam. For the purpose of today’s article, it has been removed from the list of banned words so that bloggers can debate the issues raised in a mature manner.

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145 Responses to FA Right To Charge Frimpong

  1. Morning all,

    A post tackling a tricky issue there from the Rock.

    As I recall Frimmers was responiding to a Spuid who replied to his request to pray for his recovery by saying “I prayed for you to break all your arms and legs” and I think he folllowed it up by callinhg him a gooner pikey or something such like.

    In the heat of the moment I’m guessing he said the first thing thayt came to his head, not that I’m condoning it, merely explaining the thought process.

    As the FA have decided to make an issue of this then I look forward to see what they are going to do about JT and his “OJ Simpson” manouevre in court a few weeks back,it wouldn’t surprise me if they brushed JT’s pecadillo under the carpet.

  2. LB says:

    Woo, I think I can safely say that is the bravest post that has ever made the headline.

    If I call someone white it is not offensive, if I call them black it is.
    If I call someone a Christian it is not offensive, if I call someone a Jew it is.
    If tottenham call themselves yids it is not offensive but if I do it is.

    Words evolve; calling spuds yids does not have to relate to the Jewish persecution throughout the second world war.

  3. chas says:

    Definitely right for him to be sanctioned, Rocky.

    For anyone to say there is any element of anti-semitism in Frimpong’s ignorant tweet is ridiculous in my opinion.

  4. jjgsol says:

    The word “yid” is only insulting when the context demands. Orthodox Jews refer to themselves as “yidden” (plural of “yid”) or even a “Yid” in the singular, but only either when speaking Yiddish (a languarge universally used by Ashkenazi Jews) or just amongst themselves, merely as a reference to a fellow Jew.

    When used by a non-Jew, about a Jew, it is always intended as an insult.

    The utitlisation of the term by the scum is unfortunate, but no doubt stems from the fact that that club (as does ours and manure) has a large Jewish support.

    I, as an Orthodix Jew, dislike that utilisation intensely, because it does have anti-semitic overtones, as though they are calling themselves an unpleasant name as a sort of trophy.

    I doubt if Frimpong has even the slightest idea of the insulting nature of the use of the word out of exact context. However, if he is brought to task for it, and given a lenient but noticable punishment, which the “offence” clearly deserves, those people “out there” who did not know the wrong use of the word, will now know.

  5. Rasp says:

    It appears the sensitive nature of today’s topic has resulted in the article being excluded from some of the larger Arsenal search engines. We are attempting to discover which words they take issue with, and may as a result, re-publish an edited version of this post later this morning.

  6. Red Arse says:

    Rocky,

    A mature and timely article that is particularly relevant to our turbulent times.

    The Law is clear on racial or religious discrimination and vilification. It is also the case that ignorance of the Law is no defence. Such discrimination is unacceptable.

    I am not a lawyer, and know nothing of the facts of the case in question, other than what I have read online.
    Therefore I can only suggest that context is important and whether or not, there were any mitigating circumstances.

    I am concerned that by bringing this subject on to a primarily footie blogsite, you may be opening up Pandora’s Box.

  7. Bryan says:

    In my humble opinion, the world has gone mad with what you can & can’t say.
    In a so called world of freedom of speech, the freedom has been locked up in a cage.
    I believe the way it is used determines an insult, ie if he was calling a Jewish person a “Yid” then it would be totally wrong but as he is calling a Spurs supporter a “Yid”, something they have called themselves for donkeys years it is totally different.

  8. Danny says:

    I don’t know enough about Frimpong but this article is interesting in the light of his disgusting comment/tweet:

    http://www.totallyjewish.com/football/pro_soccer/?content_id=18127

  9. Rasp says:

    Most would consider Frimpong’s comment to be offensive to jewish people. I should probably point out to any who do not know, that our 2 largest shareholders are jewish not to mention others associated with the club past and present ….the likes of Danny Fiszman, Keith Edelman and David Dein.

  10. LB says:

    Re the word yid: “When used by a non-Jew, about a Jew, it is always intended as an insult.”

    This is simply is not true.

    Most people with half a brain know that the majority of tottenham supporters are not Jewish and yet they revel in the collective name of “The Yids.”

    The word is not anti-semetic it is simply a name used by tottenham supporters to identify themselves.

  11. Rasp says:

    Hi RA, the fact is that the comment on twitter was made by a footballer employed by Arsenal. It was aired in the public domain.

    I personally would rather steer the debate in the direction of asking whether clubs do have a right to censor their contracted players activities in the social media. Judging by a recent comment from AW, he believes it would be an infringement of their rights. In which case, making an example of anyone who does not understand the consequences of their actions may be the only way of encouraging self censorship.

  12. LB says:

    Any Arsenal supporter who didn’t know that three of the most influential people on the Arsenal board in recent times were Jewish need to do a bit more investigation as to who, how and why the club is run.

  13. Rasp says:

    Agreed LB – but I bet you there are many who have ‘strong opinions’ on the blogosphere who are ignorant of the facts.

  14. LB says:

    I bet most Arsenal supporters don’t know from where the name Gooner originated.

  15. Bryan says:

    I agree with LB

    there are afew other words that originally were insults to the culture/race of people that are now accepted & used by the actual race as an expression of friendliness, words & meanings evolve & will always evolve, you get what I mean my homies ;-)

  16. Bryan says:

    LB I think you have got to let everyone know where the name Gooner originated from now haha

  17. LB says:

    Bryan

    I am going to do a Kelsey on this one ;)

  18. evonne says:

    Rocky – excellent analysis, thank you.

    I have mixed feelings about this issue. I doubt very much that Frimpong fully understood the undertones of his riposte. He called the twat twitter something that Spurs’ fans call themselves, ie Yid, and what Arsenal fans call Spurs’ fans – Scum. Together we got a rather unfortunate ‘Scum Yid’. Any negative associations with religious or ethnic origins are illicit, intended or not. And that’s where I have a problem – intended abuse, racial or religious, should be illegal. Banter, jokes and stupid mistakes like the one of Frimpong’s, should be treated as such.

    But what I also accept is the fact that I, a white Christian cannot fully understand racism. Sure, I was called stupid Polak, bleach blond bitch by my black work mates, ignorant Eastern European, etc etc. But that is nothing compared to what blacks and Jews endured, and therefore I can honestly say that I know about racism, but I don’t know how it feels.

  19. Bryan says:

    LB
    does that mean you don’t know :-D

  20. Herb'sArmy says:

    Well done on tackling a very sensitive issue Rocky.
    Public figures are more exposed today than they’ve ever been, and the lack of education is astounding. But it amazes me that people can’t grasp that skin pigmentation correlates to exposure from the sun, which is dependent on what part of the world you hail from.
    Racism is never acceptable, and with all the technology available, it really is time people were far better informed and educated to a respectable standard.

  21. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Waiting for train, so a quick read and Yikes.
    100% with LB.
    “Y”s were the violent element of Spuds fans, as Gooners were to the Arsenal.
    Avoid both myself, but that is irrelevant.

  22. 26may1989 says:

    Rocky, well done, I was mulling over writing something on this, but you’ve said all I would have said and more.

    We all love Frimpong, it’d be great if his enthusiasm could be bottled and given to some of the other players, who don’t seem to get the passion thing.

    But, however provocative the idiot Spurs fan was, there is no excuse for using racist terminology. Frimpong may need to go through some education to understand why “yid” is every bit as offensive as any other racist epithet, and if an FA charge is what it takes, so be it.

    As for the suggestion that the term “yid” is not insulting just because there are some moronic Spurs fans who use it (most of whom are not Jewish): no. It is an offensive and racist term because that is how it is understood, the social constructs around that word (like Paki or nigger) are such that most people (not all, that’s where it gets complicated) consider it to be beyond the pale (to use a metaphor that itself may have Jewish (or Irish) roots).

    Just because some idiots use the term without caring about its impact, doesn’t justify others using it. So Arsenal fans can’t justify using the word “yid” just because some Spurs fans do. It’s simply a racist term, and as members of a society we ought to have the decency to know where the line should be drawn. The fact that there are just as many Jewish Arsenal fans as Jewish Spurs fans just underlines the point.

    Well done Rasp and Peaches for allowing this debate to take place – I’m sure there will be some trouble today, with some not respecting the request to debate it maturely, but the fact you have facilitated the discussion is a credit to you.

  23. Bryan says:

    Evonne surely being called a stupid Polak, is just as insulting as being called a Yid, to me an insult is an insult if it is ment to hurt

  24. ajama says:

    i sincerelly think it’s a big issue cause of who’s involved!..no sentiment.but if it was rooney or gerrard…it may not be this bad.
    my boy will get through it!
    how will you feel if someone prays you break your arms and legs…remember they are humans before they are footballers.Tell me non of the FA panel committee have not reacted in such manner in this kind of situation before in their life?!
    HE WHO WITHOUT SIN SHOULD CAST THE FIRST STONE!

  25. Rasp says:

    Hi ajama, I take your point … but I could counter your last line with the old adage…. ‘Bad things happen when good people do nothing’ (Edmund Burke 1729-1797)

  26. Danny says:

    Lord Harris of Peckham is definitely the only Jew on the board at the moment. Alisher Usmanov maybe Jewish but who knows, I mean he’s not like Abramovich who openly states that he is a Jew. Shame that Benayoun’s no longer around to slap Frimpong!

  27. evonne says:

    Bryan – I think so. The Nazis extermianted millions of Slavs and ‘anti-Slavic racism was an essential component of Nazism. Adolf Hitler and his Nazi movement regarded Slavic nations and their peoples as Untermenschen (sub-humans), one of a number of “inferior races”‘

    This however does not stop people cracking jokes about it, openly calling us stupid or ignorant.

    But racism stems from ignorance, there should be education rather than punishment in smaller cases, such as that of Frimpong

  28. goonerjake says:

    Many apologies,

    I think it maybe the second or third match I ever attended and i just followed what the crowd were singing and in my ignorance I too sang along with the y word coincidently and believe me this did happen I picked up a copy of gunflash at which had either a letter or article about the y word. I felt sick. I will never use it again.
    Maybe it was the thrill at being at one of my first matches and thinking it can’t be that bad if so many are singing it but it is. Lesson learned never use words you don’t understand even the once.
    so if any one has heard that vile chanting and it was at that game it may of only been the once I did it however to any and all I apologise.

  29. Jack King says:

    @LB
    I can’t completely agree with you that to call somebody black or a jew is offensive. It is if you say or write it in an offensive manner. Re the origins go Gooner. My understanding is that this is way that our Jamaican supporters pronounce Gunner and was use in a derogative way by the likes of Milwall supporters.

  30. Bryan says:

    Jack, I’m not convinced that is where gooner came from but who know/

  31. Bryan says:

    knows lol

  32. Red Arse says:

    Arsenal —> Guns —-> Gunners —-> G oo ners! :-)

  33. I thought Gooners was after the Spike Miiligan/Harry Secombe bunch of comedians as in “The Goon Show” ?

    But I’m probably hopelessly wrong on that as with most things.

  34. Shard says:

    It’s always a tricky topic this, isn’t it? Personally, I think people are too sensitive and the world has gone mad with the level of political correctness demanded. I don’t get offended by such statements unless it is clear offense was intended. And while Frimpong certainly intended offense (fairly so), I seriously doubt he intended offense with a racial motive.

    However, Arsenal did run a campaign last year to kick out the Y-Word. Can’t remember if Frimpong was actually part of that campaign. I just remember Gibbs being in the video.. I still think Frimpong didn’t know the potential connotations of the word. At the same time, I think he deserves a punishment to learn that this is not acceptable or appropriate behaviour. Arsenal apparently have already fined him, and i think the FA is right to charge him too.

    I was there at the North London Derby this year, and sitting in the North Bank, I heard people sing ‘Stand up if you hate Tottenham” and then use the word ‘Yiddo’ at the end. This was a fair few number of people around me. Hopefully, a few of them will also realise that this word should not be used.

    Why should it not be used? Like I said, personally, I don’t see much of an issue with any word, rather the context it is used in. Like LB said, words evolve. However, it seems that people still think of it as a term propounding racial or religious hatred. If it has the potential to genuinely hurt even a few people, why take the chance?

    Still, people should reserve their ire and outrage for the far greater issues facing mankind than one young footballer reacting poorly to an obviously malicious statement.

  35. mystic says:

    What a load of bollocks – my mum came from a jewish family and had to endure the blackshirts during the 2nd world war, that doesn’t affect what I call opposition fans.

    The politically correct attitudes of some are making it so much harder for others to be properly accepted without being tarnished with small minded taunts of favouratism.

  36. LB says:

    Hi JackKing

    Try telling that to Frimpong.

  37. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    Does this mean the word Pom, soap dodger & limey are offensive?

  38. LB says:

    “Just because some idiots use the term without caring about its impact, doesn’t justify others using it.”

    26, you are a lawyer and a far better word smith than I. But the tottenham fans that call themselves yids are not the kind of idiots that you suggest, they are the everyday run of the mill supporters. Be they Jewish or not they are proud of the nick name and that is a fact.

    I do realise that I will never win this because there are far too many people who want to perpetuate the divide between the religions.

    Look at jjgsol’s comment above: in reference to the word “yid”

    “When used by a non-Jew, about a Jew, it is always intended as an insult.”

    Apart from being totally untrue it perpetuates a divide that need not be there.

  39. Rasp says:

    :lol: gg, no we deserve it :?

  40. LB says:

    gnarley

    Ooh–too-be.
    ;)

  41. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    Well then Rasp you r free 2 use the word Convict, colonial, Bruce, sheila, etc, etc

  42. Rasp says:

    I think some folks are missing the point. If it were possible to filter out the use of unpleasant words so that they were only used by those who genuinely mean no offence then that would be perfect …. but it’s not.

    How many times have all of us been in a discussion with someone and touched on a potentially delicate subject only to discover they have exreme views that make you uncomfortable … several I’d guess.

    There will always be those who hide behind freedom of speech to abuse others. For the sake of the greater good, such words should not be used by any of us if there is a chance they may offend someone.

  43. Rasp says:

    Thanks gg, maybe I’ll restrict myself to Bruce and Sheila from that list :P

  44. Bryan says:

    Shard

    As I said at 10.16 I think its all gone mad with what you can’t say anymore & personelly when we sing ‘Stand up if you hate Tottenham” & then do the Yiddo bit at the end again I think it is only a bit of humour/banter & nothing to do with race.
    Also you stole my thunder & gave it to LB as it was me that said words evolve, i’m so gutted haha

  45. Bryan says:

    What ever happened to “Sticks n stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” ;-)
    Oh how times have changed

  46. LB says:

    Rasp

    For any self respecting blog I see no other way to act but for the wider nuances of the today’s word there is much more to discuss in my view.

  47. LB says:

    Bryan

    The beauty of a blog is that you can go back and read what has been said: please read the end of my comment at 9.50 — as Shard did.

  48. Bryan says:

    lol sorry LB I was obvioulsy lazy & didn’t read every comment, damn you have stolen my thunder again ;-)

  49. Jack King says:

    LB, yes indeed. The irony would probably be lost on him though.

  50. Rasp says:

    I agree LB. since Rocky went to the trouble of writing the piece and felt he had something to say, we were true to our statement and published. I personally have no problem discussing this football related topic.

    The fact that it was too contentious for NewsNow is probably a blessing in disguise as we haven’t received any unpleasant responses

  51. LB says:

    Bryan

    You raise in interesting point when you refer to the song: stand up if you hate tottenham and then sing yiddos after. Personally I have never sung the word after that song, I have never so much as even said it but interestingly the Jewish accountant who sits next to me does. Funny old world.

  52. DM says:

    Not had time to read all the replies to apologies if I repeat what someone else has said previously. I think this topic is very complicated. There was a campaign last year involving David Baddiel amongst others in which they tried to educate the masses of the meaning of the word Yid, and eradicate its use in the game today. However, for every person you’ll find agreeing with them, there’s another Spurs fan who’ll say they wear it as a badge of honour and proudly call themselves Yids, just as we call ourselves Gooners. These people are not referring in the slightest to the Jewish relevance, and it’s unlikely they’re going to suddenly stop their chanting when they don’t see anything wrong with it.

    I should mention I am an orthodox, observant Jew.

    One thing that I doubt others have mentioned, just to give Frimpong some credit and show he’s certainly not Anti-Semitic (not that anyone has said he is): Last year he (Frimpong) and a few others visited a Jewish secondary school in London as representatives of Arsenal. Whilst there, he promised he would try to raise awareness for the charity that the school were raising money for, which was helping to educate people about the holocaust, etc. Within an hour of leaving the school, Frimpong had made good on his promise and posted details on his twitter page. I remember reading about it at the time and thinking that was pretty impressive behaviour. I’m sad for him for what he’ll be going through now, although no doubt it was a mistake he will learn from.

    (source for above article: http://www.arsenal.com/news/community-news/arsenal-stars-pay-visit-to-borehamwood-school)

  53. Bryan says:

    DM

    That is pretty impressive of Frimpong as you said & is nice to know that fotballers aren’t always as bad as they are portrayed

  54. Rasp says:

    Thanks DM, that’s brought some much needed balance to our judgement of Frimpong. I have a friend who is doing some work for him at the moment and the guy is just as he appears – exhuberant, fun loving, feisty and not prone to in depth analysis in advance of his actions. He’s a sweet guy and a gooner through and through.

    The wider question of the use of twitter is another subject. Jack has had to withdraw because of allegations made against him and RvP is currently suffering abuse from people calling themselves Arsenal supporters. There have been prosecutions as a result of abusive tweeting but the courrts would be overrun if everyone who stepped over the line was taken to task. It’s a problem – I don’t have a solution.

  55. Bryan says:

    I have a solution, don’t let players use twitter, its as simple as that, then they can’t get themselves into trouble that way

  56. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Apologies in advance if i offend anyone, but back in the eighties i used the word all the time. They called themselves yids and we called them yids. Coming from a London working class backrground most people bandied the word, spurs fans or not.

    That dosnt excuse my behaviour though. i go out of my way not to use it now in case some one is genuinely upset by it coz i dont want to hurt anybodys feelings. Maybe ime just getting older but i cant be doing with all this nonsense anymore. Give me a nice cup of coco and my Arsenal pyjamas and i feel great. hahahaha

  57. kelsey says:

    Yid is a derogatory word to anyone of the Jewish faith, and one has to be Jewish to really feel offended, yet I still don’t know to this day why many Spurs’ fan use the phrase” yid army.” Spurs have a Jewish following and a Jewish owner but then again Arsenal had Jewish directors and also have a Jewish following.

    It used to be “come on you lillywhites.”

    Most of us realize that 90% of professional footballers are moron’s, regardless of what shirt they are wearing I would say that Frimpong as others are all guilty of being just plain stupid.and don’t even know that the Y word is offensive to many.

    Brave Blog to put up but i doubt we will all agree on the subject.

  58. DM says:

    As I said, I remember being impressed with him. Glad I got the chance to stand up for him – I doubt others will have seen this article anywhere (it was mostly mentioned in the Jewish papers) and remembered it.

    Not sure banning players from Twitter is the right response. A lot of good can be done through these social networking sites. That some bad can come of them too is to be expected. At the end of the day, freedom of speech applies in all forms. If Frimpong was a plumber, there’d be no problem with what he Tweeted – it certainly wouldn’t count as abuse in a court of law. Because he is a footballer and he represents Arsenal, a higher level is expected of him. That’s fine – in fact, it’s great. But it doesn’t stop him being human. It doesn’t stop him being ignorant to certain things and prone to making mistakes.

    Personally, I don’t see why he didn’t just Tweet afterwards, upon realising the controversy he caused, something along the lines of:

    “Very sorry for any offence caused in regards to my use of the word ‘Yid’. I was only aware of it in relation to a Spurs fan, and did not know of the derogatory connotations of the word. Lesson learned.”

    ^Surely that would be that?

  59. Shard says:

    Bryan,

    Hehe. Talk about scoring an own goal there :)

    I agree with you about the song about Tottenham and the word following. I am not offended by it. I don’t think others should be offended either. But since people obviously are, I think it is better to not use it. What do we lose by not using it? Nothing.

    The world has gone mad. No doubt about that. It’s like people are hanging in the wings waiting to shout their outrage over some perceived sin, and bring back a modern version of the inquisition. I think do-gooders actually might end up doing more harm because they, in the process of raising ‘awareness’, actually end up forcing people to pay attention to someone’s race, rather than treat it as irrelevant.

    I do disagree about not letting players use twitter. I personally am not on twitter, and I don;t think that’ll change anytime soon. But, it definitely has certain advantages. The players can interact with fans directly, and on the whole it is a positive. It is a fairly new tool, and I think in a few years everyone will learn how to handle it better. These small things shouldn’t make us overlook the positives. In my view, banning something is never the solution anyway.

  60. Shard says:

    Oh yeah..It must be mentioned that Frimpong actually did later put up a tweet saying :

    “Just wanna say didn’t even no the word is offensive as u hear it all the time but u live and learn from ur mistakes have a gd afternoon,”

  61. Frimpong should be cautious ! Soka Majik

  62. kelsey says:

    LB says:
    July 26, 2012 at 10:42 am (Edit)

    Bryan

    I am going to do a Kelsey on this one ;)

    Which means what exactly :)

  63. jjgsol says:

    “Re the word yid: “When used by a non-Jew, about a Jew, it is always intended as an insult.”

    This is simply is not true.”

    LB, you said this earlier on and I must tell you you are wrong. There is no situation where ,if a non-Jew referred to a Jew as a “Yid” it can be anything other than intended to be insulting.

    Whilst we may use that word between ourselves, there is no possible context for it to be used by a non-Jew other than in an unpleasant way.

    Perhaps, next time someone shouts it to me from his car as he drives by, should I stop him to ask whether he meant it in a nice way or a nasty way?

    There is, I am afraid, no need, as I know the answer already.

  64. jjgsol says:

    I wonder what the context is when Frimpong hears it “all the time”.

    I do not doubt that he drafted what a badly drafted sentence and actually, does not, in my view, assist him that much . Perhaps, someone at the club should have helped him to make sure he does not put his foot in it.

  65. DM says:

    jjgsol speaks the truth. I’m not one to get easily offended, and I’ll often stick up for people who get accused of racism etc. without much evidence (as I have done with Frimpong) but when a non-Jew refers to a Jew as a “Yid”, it’s no different to a white person calling a black person the N-word. Whoever said it could argue that they don’t mean it in a derogatory way, that THEY call each other that anyway, etc. etc., but at the end of the day it’s a derogatory term.

    Outside of the footballing perspective, that is.

  66. Bryan says:

    Kelsey

    I think I did a Kelsey myself earlier haha
    which now means I made a booboo :-D

  67. DM says:

    (and I’m not saying that in a footballing context it’s ok, just saying it’s more of a complex issue, as I said above)

  68. Bryan says:

    I think its quite strange really because if a another race calls me a honky or white bar-steward, I would find it funny, maybe I just don’t get offended that easily

  69. DM says:

    Bryan, it’s not about whether I get offended or not, it’s about whether it is offensive. I’ve already said I’m not easily offended. If I’m walking down the road and some idiot shouts at me out his car window “YID”, do I really care what he thinks of me? Of course not. But does it stop the fact that he was being racist/derogatory/insulting/whatever else you want to call it? No.

  70. LB says:

    jjgsol

    I will take your word for it that people of the Jewish faith use the word amongst themselves but the tottenham supporting community who, as I am sure you know, are not all Jewish and they use it amongst themselves as a badge of honour.

    So I say again the word has evolved in a football sense and does not have the automatic anti-semitic connotations that are still being forced on people.

    And, as you asked, the next time someone shouts yid at you, my suggestion would be — be proud.

  71. kelsey says:

    A lot of racism is born out of ignorance.

    jjgsol and DM both agree with me.

    The Jewish people are often said ” To be The Chosen People”, i say chosen for what.

    I am not going to get drawn any further into this as I see two issues here. One what Frimpong said and what is generally offended to Jewish people, and as I said earlier one has to be Jewish to fully understand that the Y word is offensive when directed to a Jew

    .End of.

  72. Bryan says:

    DM
    surely its the way it is said, that is what makes it offensive.
    for example if a friend says u silly **** to me, its not offensive but if he shouts it at me really angrilly it is said in a totally different manner & offensively

  73. DM says:

    LB
    I’m also Jewish. I agree with you that the word has evolved in a footballing context. However, it is not a simple clear-cut situation in which we can say either it’s OK to call them that or not OK.

    Consider the following made-up (highly ridiculous) scenario. I realise this is a far-stretch but I’m just trying to illustrate a point:

    It’s 1970 and football is a white-man sport. One team buys two black players, which is unheard of. But the fans of the club decide they don’t mind, they support equality, even if no-one else does. When opposing teams come to visit, they start chanting nasty words and making monkey noises at them. The club become known as “monkey FC” by other teams. But still, the fans of this club are moral people, and refuse to let it get to them. In fact, they decide they’re going to turn the situation around and PROUDLY call themselves “the monkeys”, as if to say a big screw you to those racists – you think you’re insulting us but we’re proud of who we are.

    Now 40 years later, the nickname has always remained. But people are no longer racist like they were before. Some fans don’t even know why they’re known as the monkeys. Others wear it as a badge of pride, as if to say “we were the first team to promote equality, people made fun of us and we didn’t care”. Some think it’s an insult and a disgrace.

    Then a group of black players in the game come together to say let’s stamp out this nickname from the sport for good. But lots of people don’t want to stamp it out – not because they’re racist, but because they’ve spent so many years calling them that, that they believe the term has evolved, and no longer has racist connotations.

    …So, who’s right?

    I must stress, I’m not suggesting an answer to the problem, just highlighting that the problem exists. I would also like to make it clear that I’m not suggesting the situation in my scenario is the same as the “Yid” scenario, it’s just the best I could think of that would pose a similar dilemma. Lastly, I’m not racist in the slightest and hope that no-one took that comment the wrong way – I just used example of monkeys because I know that black players have suffered that kind of despicable abuse in the past.

  74. chas says:

    Rasp,
    Please delete this comment if you think it’s inappropriate. If I put the links with brackets round them, they won’t embed.

    This is why some Arsenal fans use the word. (First 30 seconds is more than enough).
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20FazKO4iBk)

    And this is why no Arsenal supporter, player or anyone associated with the club should ever use the word when referring to the spuds. (30 seconds in).
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG2YysENnY)

  75. Bryan says:

    DM

    I congratulate you on that explanation, thought it was quite clever & conjures up a tricky scenario

  76. DM says:

    Bryan
    you may be right about the way it’s said. The problem with that is that making it OK to be said in one way allows it to be abused in the wrong way.

    For example, if it’s ok to say “this is my friend – he’s a yid” clearly meaning a spurs fan… then later on when someone gets angry at him and shouts “OH F*** OFF YOU STUPID YID!”.. now what does he mean by that? You have the situation where he is angry, so it should be offensive.. but we’ve already seen him using the term in a non-offensive way…

    It just gets complicated.

  77. DM says:

    Bryan
    thanks for your congratulatory post.. I’ve had the scenario in my head for a while but always scared to use it in case people take it the wrong way and get offended.

  78. Rasp says:

    New posts required! All regulars and potential new writers out there are invited to submit a few lines for a post for tomorrow and to see us through the rest of the week.

  79. Bryan says:

    DM
    Yeh it is very complecated
    I recently saw a comedian on a stand up show say “that c**t used to be an offensive word but now its a word of endearment cos now you say to your mate, how you doing you c**t”
    that about sums it up for me ;-)

  80. DM says:

    lol yes exactly, but then it always gets even more complicated when the word in question refers to only a specific group of people.

  81. RockyLives says:

    Good day all.
    Thanks for taking the Post in the right spirit and for a really interesting and mature debate.

    I can understand Redders’ suggestion that the topic does not belong on here, but one of the great things about this site is that it is always open to taking the broadest view of all things to do with Arsenal.

    And the fact that Frimpong – an Arsenal player – has been charged over this makes it an Arsenal issue (with, obviously, much broader ramifications).

    I don’t for one second believe that Frimmers used the term in an intentionally racist way and and race-based insult he caused was accidental. I’m sure the FA will take this into account. And I’m sure the lad will have learned that vital lesson that (I imagine) most of us have learned by now: if in doubt, take a step back and ask someone…

    I would like to compliment everyone who has contributed to this debate for the quality and intelligence of their comments today.

  82. Red Arse says:

    DM and jjgsol, I think you have both made mature and reasoned responses, and I applaud you both.

    However, this issue is not complex, it’s actually quite straightforward.

    As I said earlier, I am not a lawyer, but, as I understand it, in law the excuse – “I may have said that, but what I meant was this” – does not wash, because if the recipient of the comment is offended by what he, or she, thinks is discriminatory, in a racial or religious context, then it does not matter what the person making the comment claims to have meant, it is the effect on the recipient that takes precedence in law.

    If someone uses an offensive, derogatory or pejorative comment based on race or religion, they are rightly likely to fall foul of the law, so it is best not to use any of the terms that have been mentioned today, not just because of the legal aspect, but because of the great hurt it can do to the feelings of other people.

    Simple.

  83. Strus says:

    Why Pedro Botelho is on the LOAN list when he’s OUT to Atletico Paranaense?

  84. Red Arse says:

    Hi Rocky, :-)

    As a point of clarification, I did not say that this issue does not belong on this footie site, I said I was concerned that it might open Pandora’s Box. (I won’t offend anyone by explaining that reference) :-)

    As the Rasper said, NewsNow took exception to the Post and the beneficial result was that we have not been deluged with the avalanche of disparate opinions I was fearing, and instead there has been good natured and reasonable comments made by all.

    Thank goodness! :-)

  85. LB says:

    My guess as to the reason that NN took exception was that the title lacks a question mark.

  86. RockyLives says:

    The fact that a lot of Spud supporters have embraced the Y word definitely makes the issue more complicated, but I don’t think it makes the use of the word by others acceptable.

    Mind you, there are real-life precedents for minority groups taking on an abusive word and making it their own. I’m thinking of the gay community taking over the word “queer” which used to be an out-and-out insult. And also some sections of the black community embracing the N word.

    However, in both those cases – even though the “victim” communities took ownership of the words, it has mostly remained inappropriate for outsiders to use those words to describe the groups.

    I was once working on a TV documentary about knife crime in south London and we were filming with a mostly black street gang. The black kids were calling each other “N” all the time. Then a white kid came up and called one of the other youths “my N***** ”
    You could tell the white kid was just trying to be “one of the gang”, but the comment went down like a rat sandwich. He was left in no doubt that, while the black kids were happy calling each other “N”, they didn’t want a white kid doing it.

  87. LB says:

    Strus

    Of all the potential sins talked about on this site today that is by far the worst and the tardy person responsible for not making such an important change should be taken out tomorrow at dawn and shot.

  88. RockyLives says:

    Redders
    Thanks for the clarification.
    I doubt that Newsnow took offence – it’s just that the Post contains certain words that trigger automatic blocking software.
    But, as you say, that’s probably for the best.

  89. RockyLives says:

    LB
    @3.23
    Please apologise at once for that Bloggist comment.

  90. LB says:

    Actually the automatic blocking makes more sense.

  91. Redders, if it’s so straight forward, in the eyes of the law, how come JT got off ?

    Anton Ferdinand thought(admittedly after the event) he heard JT call him a bl** C*** yet JT gets off scot free.

  92. LB says:

    I sincerely apologise to all “Tardiests” for that comment, I know you proudly use the term amongst yourselves but I realise it was wrong of me to use it. This will never happen again.

  93. RockyLives says:

    chary
    Terry got off because of his impeccable character and unblemished record of previous behaviour :)

  94. RockyLives says:

    Tardiest?

    Is that the crime of racially abusing a Time Lord?

  95. Norfolk Gooner says:

    A few words of advice to anybody considering using “social media”, Stop! Think! Reconsider! Go and read a book or have a sensible, face to face conversation with a friend, go for a walk in the park. Forget Twitter, get a life!

  96. Norfolk Gooner says:

    Oh! Should I consider changing my moniker? Is the word Gooner still acceptable? Am I allowed to be an A***nal supporter? Lol.

  97. 26may1989 says:

    Quite a lot of fun to be had watching Japan shredding Spain in the Olympics footy…. Second half due to kick off in a little bit.

  98. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Cant we just all be friends, like george and zippy from rainbow? ime sure there different nationalities but seem to get on fine. Though obviously we dont know what goes on behind closed doors.

    I dont wish to trivalise what is of course a very sensitive and delicate topic but ive ben racialy abused. I was walking past these group of girls when one of the shouted “You Gorgeous Greek Bastard”. Some people hey? hahahaha

  99. Red Arse says:

    TerryM, :-)

    I take it you were offended by the use of “Gorgeous”. These girls have no respect!! :-)

  100. Talking of NN, I saw an entry up there titled “Arsenal hospitality – Stoke FC” – is that for the hospitality package where an Orc breaks your legs and then accuses you of having a bad atitude about it later if you don’t shake hands?

  101. mickydidit89 says:

    Since we are on the subject of offensive things, some of the Brazilian fans here in Cardiff are not

  102. GunnerN5 says:

    Rasp,

    Check Arsenalnuts.

  103. Rasp says:

    Thanks GN5, I’ll have a look ASAP :P

  104. Rasp says:

    The tardy one who should be shot has rectified his error … thanks Strus :?

  105. California Gooner says:

    I have never understood how the Spuds fans can actually call themselves Yids. But what would I know? I’m American. Anyhow, I was raised by a jewish mother who has definite memories of it’s use as a racist epitaph and it is strongly associated with genocide in my house.

    LB, calling someone white, or more likely “whitey” or in Ghana, where Frimpong is from “Obruni Coco” can definitely be uncomfortable, annoying, perhaps even threatening when it is used to signal “you’re not one of us”, but it hardly caries the same historical weight. Still it isn’t usually going to make you friends.

    (By the way, Obruni Coco roughly translates as Pink Englishman… when I asked why pink, I was told that it was a more accurate descriptor than white!)

  106. chas says:

    I wonder if Micky is enjoying the constant noise of horns in the Millenium Stadium.

  107. neamman says:

    This is PC gone beserk. Context is everything and Frimpong was certainly talking in a football context, not an anti Semitic one. Its up to tottenham to stamp out the word, if their fans revel in calling themselves yid..then its fair game IMHO, though I have never used it myself ..I’m totally indifferent. I would draw the line on chants about gas ovens.. which is certainly unacceptable in my eyes.
    I married into an Asian family and to them the Holocaust is what happened in Cambodia. Frankly I would rather worry about the massacres happening today.. for example in Chechnya, Tibet, Kurdistan, many parts of Africa than worry about a war and ..yes of course a terrible event for Jews.. that ended over 65 years ago.
    For the record I am neither pro or anti Jewish ..they are no different to me than.. a Brazilian.. in other words..Im totally indifferent.
    I would say the same thing to Armenians who go on about the genocide of 1918, africans who talk about slavery or Irish who talk about the famine. Move on, its all history and its up to us to fight evil that is here now.

  108. neamman says:

    Here is something that surprised me.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics–torch-relay-nazi-adolf-hitler-london-berlin-ancient-greece-flame-.html

    Apparently the Olympic torch was something that originated in 1936 as a Nazi stunt. Given this fact… should we cancel it now?
    Again.. for the record.. I find the Olympics boring and will browse 1000 football related pages before I bother with athletics. At best I will look up the medal count to see how many medals the UK won.
    I have no objection if the torch was scrapped but .. once again.. would feel it wrong if we scrated it because of 1936. When you go down the slippery slope of PC then every country.. every country, every person.. has done things in its past that would warrant some protest or another. Better we dont go down that road IMHO.
    Is there anyone of us on this board who can honestly say we have not said or done something objectionable ..either without thinking.. or drunk?

  109. GunnerN5 says:

    neamman,

    I never think when I’m drunk.

    On the subject of drink – I’ve never experienced a hangover – I seem to sleep right through them.

  110. glic says:

    It took me 2 hours to do 6 miles on the M5 today, why do people have to crash into the central reservation . Shit motorists are worst than anything thats been written on here !.

    I agree with Terry, why cant we just all be friends ( apart from shit motorists) .

    I dont know how this may sound, but I still dont like being called a ” f**king cockney” by the Cornish, due to their ignorance, they think it`s funny . If only they knew, that`s what their wives also call me !.

  111. glic – you see the problem with your comment ‘why can’t we all just be friends’ is that it is so naive. People have to be accountable for their actions – that’s why Frimpong is being alerted to a possible charge by the FA, he needs to know that his tweet was unsavoury to say the least and possibly racist.

    The scum have chosen to be ‘yids’, that in itself is entirely unsavoury to me. It is true that if a Jew calls another Jew a yid it’s acceptable but basically it’s an insult if coming from anyone else. I remember seeing my dad square up to someone who referred to him as a ‘yid’ so I can assure you it’s not a compliment.

    If your wife was referred to as the ‘whore of the f***ing cockney’ I’m sure you’d not be pleased. If I or my children are accused of being ‘yids’ believe me I would not be happy although it is true that we are Jewish – there is a big difference. The Jews have been hounded out of their homes for centuries, have re-grouped and started lives all over again. Hitler tried to destroy our race – killing 6 million while the world looked on. There are Muslim/Palestinian groups who want the world rid of us. Its not easy, however much we want to live in peace we find that our enemies want us destroyed. What do you think the answer is?

    I think our young Mr Frimpong was just being a lad, he came out with a retort that he possibly didn’t know was as insulting to others as he meant it to be to the scummer. He’ll know for the future and so will others.

    It was difficult for me to sanction the publication of this post, although Rocky did justice to a very difficult subject, but I’m pleased I did as it gave others the chance to have their say. The ‘y’ word will be go back to being banned when the new post is published tomorrow.

  112. neamman says:

    I wish I could sleep through my hangovers!! Not so bad when I was young but on the rare event I get drunk these days [maYBE once a year at a reunion] they seem to last for 3-4 days after!!

  113. richie says:

    The world has gone PC mad but thats the reality of it we do live in this world. Frimpong had to be charged because as our friend DM has illustrated with his fantacy team who revel in being called the “monkeys” where would it all end?

  114. LB says:

    I have waffled all day on this subject but this short passage by Neamman sums my views up perfectly.

    “Context is everything and Frimpong was certainly talking in a football context, not an anti Semitic one. Its up to tottenham to stamp out the word, if their fans revel in calling themselves yid..then its fair game IMHO,”

  115. LB says:

    DM’s argument is flawed; there is no team that revels in the name “monkeys” but there is a set of supporters who revel in the name “yids”.

  116. TotAl says:

    Wow, super post Rocky! I always like your posts but to take on a difficult topic like you did today, for that I have tremendous respect.

    There have been many fine comments on the subject but I especially liked DM’s, jjgsol’s and Peaches’ contributions: they were incredibly well-balanced and to the point. I really learned a lot from all of you today. Thank you. :)

  117. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    peaches “why cant we all just be friends” was first used by me, and Cornwall was just agreeing with it. If i was asking the question in hope of receiving an answer then of course it is naive, but i wasnt. Its a philosophical question which goes to the heart of why people express distasteful views and hostitality to one another.

    Of one thing i am sure, these hostilities will not be resolved by resentment, anger or any other negative emotions .Our understanding of ourselves must come first. If we can do that, then maybe, just maybe we may one day be able to understand others.

  118. Herb'sArmy says:

    It is a credit to you and your admin team, Peaches, that you are able to put a whole variety of different topics for us all to contribute every day, and it’s worth remembering that you do it all voluntarily.
    I don’t have any particular religious background, my own view is that we are all masses of energy who attract whichever energy source we choose to emit, sometimes good, sometimes bad, often dependent on how well-rested we are, which can often determine our mood for the rest of the day.
    But I try to respect people’s faith/religion, it is a very personal, private relationship, and one that should never be treated lightly, or ridiculed. Throughout history Jews have been among the most persecuted of people, without any moral justification.
    This Post reflects both your bravery and maturity in tackling a major societal issue, and I personally thank you and Rocky for opening up what has been a largely well-meaning, and educational debate.

  119. TotAl says:

    I would like to know whether Arsenal football club hold induction and training sessions on equality and inclusion and whether they have a clear and up to date policy on the matter. Frimmpong should really have known better, if he had proper training in this area.

  120. DM says:

    LB
    In what way was my argument flawed? I’m aware there’s no team who enjoy being called “The Monkeys”, that’s why it was a hypothetical situation to mimic the one we have here.

    TotAl
    Thanks for your words. Glad you enjoyed what I wrote. Really interesting discussion today. Big well done to the admin – good job guys!

  121. TotAl says:

    Hi DM, for me it was very clear what you were trying to explain with a very good example (which is really hard to do/come up with): Just because a number of Spurs fans call themselves the Y-word, it does not mean it is acceptable to call them so ourselves. Especially on an open forum like twitter, there is real chance that by using the word ‘scum Y-word’, you will upset, indirectly and however inadvertently, many others.

    I am sure he had no bad intentions, but he should have known better – unless the club did not train him properly on their equality and inclusion policy.

  122. GunnerN5 says:

    As a matter of principle I aways steer well clear of any debate concerning race, religion or politics as they usually end up with ill feeling.

    Today was no exception – I kept my views to myself as I tend to be extremely controversial.

    But my bottom line is – do towards others as you want done to yourself.

  123. TotAl says:

    I should have done a bit of research first:

    “In the community, Arsenal is promoting and celebrating the diversity and multiculturalism of our community. I am proud of the work we are doing, but I want to also emphasise how far we still have to go to eradicate all forms of discrimination.” Gazidis.

    http://www.arsenal.com/the-club/community/equality-and-diversity

    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/the-y-word-kick-racism-out-of-football

    Good night to all :)

  124. Haven’t had a chance to read comments or comment myself, i read the post early today and must admit an eyebrow was raised, mainly because since the news i have twice attempted to give my thoughts on Frimpongs act in the comments but deleted it as it is unchartered waters.

    As for Rocky well there couldn’t be a better author on here to address the subject and walk the brave line.

    Unlike Rocky I cannot claim to have never used the Y word, in my youthful ignorance i could be heard using it on the terraces of the North Bank, I am talking aged 13-15, yes I had studied History at school, but did I know that the Y word referred to the Jewish faith? In honesty no i didn’t. That was until going to a NLD and hearing the song to the tune of One Man Went To Mow, then suddenly it clicked, and i never sung that word again.

    Like Frimpong I would think nothing of it at the time to my mind it was just what Spudders called themselves. Fast forward 20 years and a number of campaigns by the club to stop the use of the word by our fans and I will not utter the word now.

    Now what about the age old argument “well they call themselves it” well yes they do, but they are celebrating the fact, i don’t think they should be using the word but that is their choice, while Arsenal fans continue to use it as a derogatory phrase at the end of a few songs we will always be behind in this argument, and also there are plenty of Jewish Arsenal fans who have to hear the fans of the team they love and call themselves part of using a word in such a derogatory way.

    Thankfully as a club we have been one of the forerunners of equality on the pitch in terms of race, it would be really good if we could do the same with faith, and you never know we might even stop hearing sexual orientation based insults.

  125. As i skimmed the comments i noticed something about being able to call someone Christian but not Jew, or White but not Black. I think this is incorrect and is a result of too many paper reports along the lines of “Political Correctness gone Mad”.

    To describe someone by their faith, skin colour, gender, height, weight, hair colour, eye colour is perfectly acceptable.

    To use that description and a apply a preconceived prejudice is not acceptable.

  126. oz gunner says:

    I agree with GiE in saying, Rocky is definately the right person for the job in regards to handling this touchy issue.

    Neaman and LB have summed up my thoughts to a T. My only issue is that some cultures can say what they please, yet when it is returned it’s all blown out of proportion. Forget the horrific things the individual said to Frimpong, nah that’s all irrelevant.

    Playing Aussie Rules football my whole life I had to play against a lot of Aboriginal players/teams. Often players on our team/me where called white this and white that…but that’s okay. If 1 person says one derogatory back to them…quick stop the presses…how dare you…our history ect. Some have every right to be offended, some are just too touchy. Frimpong said something stupid, not because of the word he said, but because he responded to a twit. If he meant it in a different context then I’d understand the outrage, he clearly didn’t so he should of been given a slap on the wrist and handled internally

  127. kelsey says:

    Morning all.
    Having read all the comments it appears that several people claim that they didn’t know the meaning of the Y word whilst others are tring to compare an anti semitic remark to other racial comments.
    As a jew (and there are several other jewish contributers on here) we can never dismiss what happened in the war as lightly as neamann suggested.
    I said it was a brave post to put up and some people actually wrote as if it was a frivolous subject, whilst others now realise that it was wrong to use the word though they didn’t know the meaning at the time.
    Forget what frimpong said for a moment, but if you were jewish and had lost relatives in the gas chambers in the war, as I did, it will never be forgotten and shouldn’t be.As peaches said the jews have always been a persecuted race and in fact the headline post postscript gave everyone a clue that the Y word is banned on here for good reason.
    Hopefully today everyone will have a better understanding regardless of their own views, and we can now continue to talk about all things Arenal.

    My gut feeling is that either Arshavin or Walcott will be sold before the season start, any thoughts ?

  128. chas says:

    Morning all,

    Some more great comments on a sensitive subject after a early evening lull.

    I really liked the introduction of calling the Tottnumb supporters, “spuds”. I presume it first came into use within the last five years. I’d certainly not seen it before the Arsenal blogs started up. Does anyone know?

    Now I know they hate being called spuds, but they like being called yiddos, so why don’t we call them something they might not be quite so keen to adopt as a name for themselves?

    If Frimpong had typed ‘scum spud’, we all could have applauded and the Tottnumb supporter would have been more offended being called a name he wouldn’t call himself.

    LB,
    By the way, I’m interested in what the origin of the term ‘gooner’ is. I’ve seen explanations saying that it was the spuds who used it first as a derogatory form of ‘gunner’, but I’d like to hear the real explanation from someone who knows.
    A post, maybe?

  129. chas says:

    Morning, Kelsey,
    Sorry I’m going to go on a little longer.

    Yesterday a spud called ‘my heart is white’ posted on another blog and below is one of the replies he received.
    The commenter even points out the distinction in using the y word, but because he is talking about a spud, he uses other derogatory words and the overall effect is offensive in my opinion.
    I wish Arsenal supporters would just stop using it.

    http://bit.ly/P5h4eD

  130. mickydidit89 says:

    Morning all
    I’m on my mobile device. How xo you zoom back to top of page to deffesh without s rolling. Its an android.

  131. chas says:

    Kelsey,

    I think Theo will sign a new deal.
    For some reason, I don’t think he’d want to expose himself to the big bad world outside of Arsenal Football Club. I thought his recent quotes were positive, but I suppose it depends on which picture you are trying to paint.

    Positive

    http://www.thearsenal.eu/2012/07/walcott-we-can-win-trophies/

    Negative

    http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/906116-theo-walcott-tells-arsenal-i-want-trophies-not-money

    I’d imagine Arshavin will go but with his lucrative contract running out in 2013, he might fancy one more season?

  132. chas says:

    Tap the top bar on an iphone, Micky.

  133. LB says:

    Chas

    Ooh–too–be.
    ;)

  134. chas says:

    LB ?

  135. chas says:

    Little tune.
    Beware bad language.

  136. mickydidit89 says:

    Chas
    Gooners are ¨pressure groups”!
    Basically lynch mobs hence ooo to be a gooner whenever fighting kicked off clock end

  137. chas says:

    Micky,
    Is that why you don’t use it?

    This suggests it was derogatory from the spuds first, then was adopted by the clock end boys.

    http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=21836775&ac=now

  138. chas says:

    One hundred years of being in North London next year. :)

  139. chas says:

    Did you used to be a hooligan, LB?

  140. chas says:

    Too much chas. Tara in a bit.

  141. evonne says:

    Morning guys
    The Olympics are about to start, yeepee, i was beginning to get bored of the Olymipics even before the games started

    Monster – I need your help. I was bumped; bought an iPhone on eBay and it is locked. How to unlock it? Checked youtube and google, but they are not necessarily reliable. Do you know how?

  142. Gooner In Exile says:

    Evonne, search locally for a little repair shop, they normally can do the job

  143. evonne says:

    GiE – thanks. I know they can do it, but the problem is they jailbreak the phone, which means that as soon as I upgrade the OS it locks again. Stupid, stupid me

  144. New Post ………………….

  145. Tony says:

    Frimpong thinks he is a hard nut when really he is just a moron. Only fans of his club will excuse his rambling threats and if another player went round saying the crap he does to an Arsenal player they would all want him suspended.

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