Football, Sexism or Naked Politics

Regular readers of this blog will be aware that I am a long time Arsenal supporter, having first stood on the Highbury terraces  over 50 years ago, a time when seats were basically for the well to do and, as they would have it in those far off days, the bosses.

The workingman stood on the terraces; this was his place, and his fiefdom. Here he exorcised the frustrations of having to kowtow to those same bosses all week. Probably also working Saturday morning, before clocking out on the stroke of midday and rushing off to the North bank at Highbury, the Kop at Anfield or any of hundreds of other league and non league grounds scattered around the country for the statutory 3 O’clock kick off.

There to shout, swear, curse, cheer, sing and bond with mates who stood shoulder to shoulder with him at the same place on the terraces every week, watching their heroes, who had quite likely travelled to the game on the same bus or tube as the fan himself, before running out to perform on the hallowed turf which, if the truth were told, was the ultimate dream of the vast majority of fans massed in swaying ranks above them.

Dads took sons, who as the grounds filled and took on a swaying surging dangerous life of their own were lifted and passed hand to hand overhead by the adults and placed in a prime position close to the pitch.

What, you might well ask, has all this to do with today’s sanitised game?

Well for a start, women were generally conspicuous by their absence from these gatherings.  Yet, it is from this point that despite, disasters, violence and hooliganism over the years, football has evolved into the all seater, health and safety obsessed, politically correct, female inclusive game that exists today. All brought about by massive investment as the game has grown and become the number one TV sport worldwide. Despite this  investment, somehow tribalism and bigotry has survived, and although women have joined the brotherhood.  Some brothers have not yet cottoned on.

It is this fact that has led inexorably to what will undoubtedly become known as the Keys and Gray affair as the unsuspecting broadcasters were cast on the altar of political correctness, with the usual suspects and rent-a-gobs queuing  to gleefully castrate the hapless pair.

For what, you may ask?  An unfortunate conversation deemed sexist and broadcast across a microphone left open unknown to the smug Keys and his footballing Guru by some careless engineer. A conversation in which they suggested the female referee’s assistant was unlikely to understand the intricacies of the offside law and followed by a disparaging remark concerning a newspaper article about sexism penned by Ms Brady of Birmingham and West Ham fame, these comments were made in what they believed to be a private conversation.

Of course, given the animosity between the various arms of the media, it was seized upon by a rival in the printed press who obtained a recording from a willing punter and triumphantly trumpeted its existence in large type across their pages before, in a fit of splendid self-indulgence, despatching a copy in righteous disgust to Sky TV asking for answers.

Do we believe that this mass outpouring from the purveyors of the written word, was solely driven by a genuine distaste of the boundaries they alleged had been crossed? Could it be that after years of dealing with yesterday’s news on the back pages, whilst trying to compete with the immediacy of sky they had finally been handed a scoop of sorts or at least a chance to get even? The paper concerned is, of course, famous in its own right among football fans for its accuracy and impartiality. (I wish)

Who was it then waiting in the wings, who had access to this material as well as other previously recorded salacious titbits ready to be  uploaded to Utube, Thus ensuring the twenty-year reign of the unfortunate pair would be terminated. The old cliché Careful who you damage on the way up, less they get you on the way down seems relevant and points perhaps to a crew member, probably emboldened by the whistle blowing antics on-line and in print of recent times.

From Sky’s point of view a combined salary of £2.2 million will undoubtedly entice whatever pairing they consider appropriate. A revamp after twenty years is probably seen as a gift from heaven in this fast changing technical world. Whilst at the same time enabling them to come out as White knights in the cause of Political Correctness just as they did with Ron Atkinson’s demise.

Now I have no love for the long-term red top TV front men, in fact I can think of many good football based reasons to replace the gruesome twosome, not least among them the deliberate and constant striving to create controversy rather than celebrate excellence.

Their treatment of our own Eduardo is a case in point. A gifted striker who had his leg so savagely broken that he will never be the same player again. Indeed so horrific was the incident that Sky themselves decided the tackle should not be broadcast again. Notwithstanding that decision, had poor Eduardo been in any condition to listen to the end of the match discussion, he would have heard the deadly duo blithely passing it off as an accident, as the player whose flying tackle caused the damage, ”wasn’t that kind of player”. I suspect some would dispute that.

A year later on his return, Eduardo then finds himself being crucified for supposedly diving, which whether true or not on that occasion, is universally acknowledged as being rife among most premier league players. Witness Rooney’s double somersault with twist against Sol Campbell to end the Invincible’s unbeaten run, which was again watched, replayed and then forgotten.

So perhaps the result can be perceived as a kind of poetic justice for football. But for me there is the smell of hypocrisy in the air, an unholy alliance of expediency within sky, coupled to the frenzied baying of the press hounds both in the written word and in their headlong rush for guest appearances on air. thereby swelling their bank balances at the table of opportunity and who knows, maybe convincing the powers that be, that a journalist and not an ex-player should get the pundits job

Written by dandan

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60 Responses to Football, Sexism or Naked Politics

  1. gnarley – I’ve missed you, you weren’t here to celebrate getting into the Carling Cup final. How’s the holiday going – missing us too I see ;)

  2. mickydidit89 says:

    gnarley,
    I have not missed you one bit :-)

  3. Morning all

    Thank you dandan for a well rounded piece following this weeks disclosures at Sky. Men who harbour chauvinistic views and hold the opinion that they are god’s gift to women, like Andy Gray, are pretty loathsome in any walk of life – they generally enjoy belittling women’s achievements and are offensive in their embarrassing comments. When challenged,some feel ashamed that they hold these opinions others show no remorse.

    I always enjoyed watching Andy Gray’s assessment of the games even before he had all the new techie gizmos but I found it unnerving how he obviously had had some coaching to look straight into the camera – too showbiz for my liking.

    Men and Women will continue to snipe at each other through their sexuality it’s in our DNA, does that show that we are not equals? I don’t think so. The problem is when the power is in the wrong hands but that works both ways – Gray perceived he was all powerful and untouchable and that’s why he had to go.

    As for who should get the plum job now, surely it has to be a journalist.

  4. Who’s going to play in goal tomorrow?

    I’m going for Shea.

  5. mickydidit89 says:

    dandan,
    Thanks for post.
    I have been pretty tied up for the past few days, and have intentionally, to a degree, avoided the whole Sky fiasco. Firstly, because I do not know the facts or have heard the comments. What is undoubtedly true though is that Sky do not employ less pleasing on the eye female news reporters! The word hypocrites leaps to mind.
    I really like your description of bunking off lunchtime saturday and heading to the North Bank. Very many happy memories.

  6. chas says:

    Very enjoyable read, thank you.

    I quite liked the comment elsewhere about the hypocrisy of Sky bemoaning sexism when putting out a channel like Sky Sports News which is like Babestation but with girls that can read.

  7. Steve Palmer says:

    Blinding read DD,
    I have no love for said pair, but a witch hunt without doubt. Everybody must say things that they wouldn’t want the whole world to hear, and these two have definitely been set up, Sky sports should be ashamed of themselves, and the gutless losers behind the scenes, should be exposed for what they are, Faceless backstabbers.

  8. Rasp says:

    Morning,

    Interesting post dandan, thanks for putting the whole saga into historical perspective.

    We’ve frequently come to the conclusion that football is not what it was and will never return to the days when fans and loyalty came top of the list. Money rules the world.

    Sky employ ‘totty’ of both sexes to present programmes. Gray made a dangerous enemy in the NotW and that played a part in his downfall. I doubt Keys would have resigned had Gray not been sacked. Hypocrisy and prejudice will be rife as long as it is unspoken and unreported, but the minute it is in danger of reaching the public domain, everyone becomes righteous.

  9. a99 says:

    Great post!

  10. mickydidit89 says:

    My wife has no interest in football wahtsoever, but has had a snigger over this Sky saga. She says it is probably a good thing there are no hidden mic’s when there is an all female gang in an operating theatre! Oh, and believe me, the worst offenders are the female doctors, anaesthetists and surgeons.

  11. mickydidit89 says:

    Moving swiftly on, are Pool keeping Torres in light of their new keeper Suarez?

  12. Rasp says:

    Hi micky,

    I’ve had 3 cases of sexual harrassment in my time in management and in every instance it’s been girls bothering fellas. I also worked in a factory to get some pocket money which was mainly populated by women when I was 16 and they used to delight in making me blush with the most graphic suggestions.

    But actually, I look back on those incidents with amusement because there was no malice or subjugation involved whereas it is often the case the other way round.

  13. Rasp says:

    micky,

    Torres is going to the chavs trust me, it’s just a question of price.

  14. mickydidit89 says:

    Rasp,
    I am sure we have all been there one way or another, so naturally I agree. I am not condoning Gray, but I almost always find the establishment hypocritical.

  15. mickydidit89 says:

    Rasp,
    So much for Abrhamovichs’ talk of the club having to self support after five years. They do appear a rudderless set up at the moment. Keep trying to buy the title or invest in youth and establish a self sufficient future.

  16. mickydidit89 says:

    There is a huge dose of jealousy at this end. I have always thought that Torres was tailor mede for The Arsenal. The timing of his injuries would have perfectly overlapped with those of RvP. We could have continuously had a seamless transition between perfect striker and perfect striker!

  17. Rasp says:

    Agreed there micky. I sometimes wonder whether Arsenal is doing a ‘King Canute’ in terms of integrity and financial dealings. I would think our business model is great for the Championship but that sooner or later the majority of the Premiership regulars will be swallowed up by billionaires or corporations.

  18. mickydidit89 says:

    Rasp,
    I think you are almost certainly right. Things I have changed so dramatically over the past 20 years. There are, happily, certain things that will never change. 11 v 11 playing football and the hard core fans.

  19. mjc says:

    Just a couple of thoughts:

    Do you think that the release of the tapes was entirely unrelated to Gray suing News International for phone-hacking?

    Wasn’t Ron Atkinsin fired by the ITV and not Sky?

  20. dandan says:

    Morning all, thanks for the comments,MJC

    I worried over the Atkinson comment and apologize if that was so.
    Like you i think there could be a connection with hacking but did not want to take the conspiracy theory to far.

  21. dandan says:

    Rasp. It would be interesting if you could expand your King Kanute theory into a post.

  22. mickydidit89 says:

    We have the sole owner (Rasp’s billionnaire model) and our currnt format. It is the sheer volume of money now involved that has so changed the dynamics. One, because it is possible to turn a profit out of buying/selling. The Glaziers spring to mind. Then there is the fact that with the new generation of super rich (sometimes referred to as The Liquid Class), buying a football club is realively small change.
    We have heard AW express his concerns that this model is unsustainable and the bubble will burst. Certainly one can envisage a time where the “turning a proft” model becomes unworkable.
    The easy option is to blame Septic Bladder for anything. Works for me every time!

  23. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    Thanx peaches

    MDI89 ;)

    Only a couple of hours to go now :P

  24. Red Arse says:

    Dandan, an excellent Post covering a whole range of issues. :-)

    Sexism, hypocrisy, double standards, politics,lack of professionalism and sexual equality, just to be getting along with.

    In my experience, both men and women make “sexist” comments to and about each other.
    The defining difference is whether the comments were unacceptably salacious or not, made between friends,or not, (bosses, male or female, should never make sexist comments to a subordinate) and so on.

    Anyway, Gray and Keys were unbelievably, stupidly unprofessional. Presenters are always “wired up” to test for sound levels and to ensure the equipment is working.

    To talk between themselves the way they did, while wired, left them hostages to fortune, in the form of someone wanting payback.
    Leaving aside the morals and socially unacceptable behaviour they deserved what they got for being stupid and unprofessional.

    Finally, the hypocrisy of the media circus is stomach churning. Sky and TV in general laughably claim to want to clean up their act.
    But what about soccer a.m. who each week parade a very nubile young lady who has smutty double entendres levelled at her by the male presenter, often while she is doing some erotic “gymnastics” for the “lads”.
    Or, the Sun which expressed outrage at the pair while showing a sexy picture of the match official on the front page and a semi naked girl on page 3.

    I am no prude but the hypocrisy of the chasing pack leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

    They all deserve each other!

  25. Gooner in Exile says:

    Top post DD.

    I’m with others on here who can’t help thinking that Grays legal issue with News International did not go some way to help these tapes getting out.

    I also believe that this is an easy way for any upset engineer to take revenge on someone, so leave mic on, press record and wait for the inevitable. The fact that Gray was sacked and not Keys shows some darker forces at work, after all Keys made the “get down there and explain offside to her” remark.

    Keys always appears so ill informed and to have learned nothing about football in the 20 years he has been at Sky “Better than Bale” question after Theo’s goal in Europe this year will live long in the memory.

    I’m quite upset to lose Gray apart from the occasional blindspot on certain players his analysis of football is good and intelligent. Better than Beglin, Townsend etc.

    The general standard of punditry is poor and cliche driven by the longstanding “Experts” note Hansen questioning the Arsenal back 4 before Tuesdays game against Ipswich, that would be the back 4 that’s looked very solid since Christmas?

    In terms of replacements I like Stelling because he is enthusiastic, or take Stubbs away from ESPN. I’d even take Lovejoy or Murray simply because they are fans like us.

  26. Gooner in Exile says:

    See Chelsea still playing long ball, why would Torres want to go and play for that?

  27. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    Top points Red Arse & ofcourse dandan

    That Sun newspaper could have a front page headline that says MILLIONS OF INDIANS DIE FROM STARVATION, but page 3 would still have some slapper starkas posing on it. The real worry is would it be intended for page one or page 3 to be the thing that they print to get extra sales :)

  28. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    :oops: Sorry MDI89 you are probably a devoted reader of The Sun :)

  29. Red Arse says:

    Hi Gnarley, :-)

  30. dandan says:

    GG9: The Sun was launched after much detailed research and deliberately aimed at the average IQ in the UK and is looked upon within the industry as a triumph of targeted marketing.

    Sad but true

  31. rokabox says:

    I am no fan of Andy Gray, in fact he irritates the balls out
    Of me, especially when he talks balls about so called big
    Players or not so called dirty players. However the whole drama about sexism is completely unjustified and blown out of proportion. We hear women talk everyday about men can do multitasking or household work or other chick flick stuff, and nobody says anything and wrightly so. I think someone within sky has had it for them and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a woman/ bitch/ glamer model!!!!

  32. ryandanielwood says:

    Hi all,

    A host of subjects covered well in this post, top marks Dan Dan :)

    I’m not a fan of Gray and Keys myself. I found Keys boring, very boring and don’t envy his task of finding himself a new job in the industry at all. Gray is more passionate about the game and was pretty much the staple of Sky football , but clearly he hasn’t kept up with the change with all that surrounds the modern game.

    On another note, with all that goes into being a professional sports anchor these days and the added pressure of Sky’s constant adrenaline pumping 24/7 action hero coverage. You’d think keeping a constant reserve on any off colour or irrelevant remark outside the sport would fall pretty high in the priority list of these “Experts”

    But they lowered themselves to a knowledge of the sport that even I can surpass! Clearly Sian Massey had to work twice as hard as any linesman in the F.A to get herself where she is. Football remains so de-evolved in the critical areas, (GL technology, Video Link Replays etc) that it doesn’t take a Wenger to realise that when you see a woman running the line in a premier league game, she must be pretty ruddy awesome! Which is a shame and a blessing because the quality of her male colleagues can be considered questionable at times.

    Wow, somebody get me a copy of “Made in Dagenham” :P

  33. Gooner in Exile says:

    Rokabox, congratulations on demonstrating why Gray and Keys should no longer have their jobs.

    It’s about the way things are said. All men suffering man flu or complaining that men cant multitask are hardly offensive, saying that a qualified female official needs the offside rule explaining to her is targeted put down of a professional person.

    To then have other recordings materialise with phrases such as “stick this down my trousers love”, “did you smash into her” are so blatantly disrespectful and out of order that their positions became untenable.

  34. rokabox says:

    Gooner in exile, thanks

    I just meant to say both men an women make sexual comments to each other all the time.9 out of ten times it passes as friendly or naughty banter One time it goes into sexual harrassment and always a man is the villan.@ work I get verbal and physical banter from my female colleagues all the time, it is no offence there! But dare I say or do anything back @ the wrong time to the wrong person then I say to my career goodbye!
    And that guy who said female doctors and nurses are the worst, he is right ,I work with them!
    Conclusion you say things to people you know and trust when they know you only lightening the atmosphere is hardly offensive unless you are a man and you chose the wrong time!

  35. Gooner in Exile says:

    Roka, what you meant to say and what is heard by others is often the problem in sexual harassment cases.

    Perhaps you should have left out the word bitch in your original comment, then it would have seemed less chauvinist perhaps.

  36. 26may1989 says:

    Dandan, very eloquent post, thanks. Not that I agree with everything you say!

    It is certainly true to say that no-one at Sky wanted to fight for Gray and Keys, that’s obvious. In fact, the continual flow of more and more off-air clips suggests there are lots of people there who had it in for G&K.

    But I have to challenge the idea that this scandal suited Sky and News International. I have little but dislike for them, but the scandal (coupled with the phone hacking scandal at NotW) are major embarrassments for Murdoch, at a time when he needs political support for his big project, i.e. getting a majority stake in BSkyB (News International has 39% at the mo). Murdoch is so pissed off about G&K and phone hacking that he has spent the last couple of weeks sacking senior execs and getting in others’ faces.

    Yes, Sky have saved on some big salaries for G&K and no doubt Gray’s legal action against News International pissed them off, but their big picture issue meant this scandal was anything but welcome for them.

    As for the underlying issue, I have no sympathy for the crass remarks thet G&K made. And not only because the comments were offensive, they were just plain wrong, something the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Alex Ferguson, Wenger and Kenny Dalglish all said. They should have known better than repeatedly to have said such stupid things near mikes, and once they were out in the open, they should have apologised immediately. A good observation on this (complete with comments from both Red Arse and me) was at http://arsenal.theoffside.com/team-news/sexism-and-football-from-a-female-perspective.html#comments.

    Chelsea have been playing badly but have just equalised. Shame.

  37. Red Arse says:

    26,

    You left a brilliantly supportive comment for Sairax’s Post.

    Well done, but then I would not expect anything different from you! :-)

  38. RockyLives says:

    Dandan
    What an insightful and well structured read. Thankyou.
    My own two ha’pennyworth is that I couldn’t care less about Keys, but didn’t mind Gray. However, it was the particularly personal nature of their sexism that rankled. They were casting aspersions on the professionalism of an individual young woman who, as has been said above, must be a really good official to have got into such a male-dominated game. She could have chosen to sue them for libel and would almost certainly have won.

    As many have pointed out, sexism is often in the eye of the beholder. In one office I used to work with some of the women engaged in regular double-entendre banter with one particularly good-looking male worker. There was another guy in the office who was, shall we say, a bit creepy/nerdy. He plucked up courage one day to make a ‘sexy banter’ comment to one of the same women who seemed to welcome it from the hunky bloke. She, of course, made an official complaint of sexual harassment and he got a formal written warning. Basically, women seem to welcome this stuff if they fancy the bloke, but are not if they don’t. Shows what a grey (Gray) area it is.

  39. RockyLives says:

    And to show that double entendres are not the solve reserve of the red tops, here’s a couple of the late Humphrey Littleton’s “Samantha’ quotes from the legendary “I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue” radio show (you have to imagine them being read in Humphrey’s lubricious and completely ingenuous tones):

    “Record researcher Samantha has been doing her regular stint down in the gramaphone library, where she tells me the two old archivists have been getting a little fractious of late. They’ve been at each other’s throats about which of them will represent the archive in judging the BBC’s Most Shapely Legs competition. To quieten things down, Samantha had to keep them apart all morning.”

    “Record researcher Samantha has made one of her customary visits to the gramaphone library, where she runs errands for the kindly old archivists, such as nipping out to fetch their sandwiches. Their favourite treat is cheese with homemade chutney, but they never object when she palms them off with relish.”

  40. ryandanielwood says:

    Well put Rocky, does anyone else look back on Gray’s quote “Awww ya beauty” in a different way now? :p

  41. London says:

    I think it’s great that pair of sexist dinosaurs have been sacked now they can get a couple of fit birds with big tits on there.

  42. London says:

    Great read Dandan

  43. dandan says:

    26 Thanks for your comment, however I Don’t think I intimated that this suited news international, In fact it was The Daily Mail that started the whole darn thing and they are one of the major objectors to to the Murdoch acquisition, but once it was out I do believe sky by their actions gave the story legs and Grays legal action ensured that he got no protection. Hence the mention of conspiracy in my reply to MJC, nor Did I say they had saved on salary rather that they would get their new men at that level of remuneration.

  44. London says:

    26

    It may not have suited Sky to have the kind of negative publicity that has appeared this week but once it started surely you agree that Sky exploited it to get rid of them especially Gray who was suing his own employer, think about that for a moment, if saying stupid sexist comments are daft you have got to be retarded to sue an employer like Murdoch and think he is not going to play hard ball.

  45. Red Arse says:

    Dandan,

    Not that it has any impact on the main thrust of your Post, but I understood that Gray had made bad enemies with certain parties within Sky News two years ago at an awards do.

    All the tapes of Sky are kept under tight security, of course, but are available to trusted Sky personnel for reference purposes.

    It is thought that one of these “trusted” personnel leaked the tape and it was first shown, not on Sky Sports but Sky News.

    Hence the inter-Sky conspiracy theories, although this is a side issue.

    Your article rightly cut to the heart of the matter and concentrated on the appalling sexism and unprofessional behaviour that triggered the chain of events. :-)

  46. Red Arse says:

    Rasp,

    Did you send that data spreadsheet yet? :-)

  47. 26may1989 says:

    Hi dandan, I was in a bit of a rush when I posted earlier, I should have made it clearer that my points re Murdoch’s overarching concerns was addressed mote to some of the responses to your post than to your comments. I agree with you that Gray got little protection from his employer and colleagues, probably for a combination of reasons, one of which, as London says, would be the legal action but another of which was G&K’s reputation (reported in the aftermath) for bullying and arrogance (one example cited was taking the piss out of a studio runner for not having much money – classy stuff).

    But I think the real point is G&K lost their jobs because they were in the wrong, simple as that. Yes, it was political and had the recordings not come out, I’m sure Sky wouldn’t have done anything, and certainly not in public. But I don’t really care about all that, I’m just amazed thir was such a strong reaction against G&K

    Last, I agree with those who say Gray will be missed on screen. Keys is an odious, know-nothing but Gray did more good in terms of the analysis of football than he did bad. Just a shame he’s got a blind spot about women.

  48. 26may1989 says:

    And another thing dandan: I love the way you (and some others here) couch your observations in terms of what it was like to follow and go to football in years gone past. It’s so evocative and brings back happy memories of the 70s for me.

    Apologies for all the typos, am using my phone.

  49. dandan says:

    No problem 26, I agree that keys was (and I like your word) odious.
    Incidentally I met Gray many years ago, I through the company had hired Villa Park for a week of exhibitions, and took the the opportunity to take a troop of cubs including my son round the ground. As always in these things one young lad went in the showers and managed to turn them on getting drowned in the process, Gray was there highly amused, but he took the little guy down to the shop and brought him a Villa kit so he wasn’t all bad. LOL

  50. Brigham says:

    A great post mate and lots of truths in there.

    I had no love for either Keys or Gray and IMHO, they were a pair of sanctomonious baskets at the best of times, particularly Keys who had no time for us (Arsenal). However, they have without doubt both been victims of a witch hunt and I think Sky were grateful of the opportunity to get rid of them both.

    As others have alluded to, men and women have often taken the mickey out of each other with jokes, tales and other actions, its part of our dna as someone else said. I for one, would like to see the whisle blowers sacked as well.

    A good piece in The Sun by Clarkson today for what its worth.

  51. SharkeySure says:

    Top quality post DD

    Definite stitch up/witchunt but couldn’t have happened to two nicer guys. Not

    When discussing the lineswoman (asst ref?), neither K or G smiles, or laughs. Thats not banter, they are being serious.

    Like wise with G’s mic comments. The young lady ignores the first request only to quickly receive a second. One sided banter isn’t really banter is it..??

  52. London says:

    Well, I watched Chamberlain against the mancs and my conclusion is that if ever there was a young man that could benefit from a bit of Wenger TLC it is him.

  53. London says:

    Wow that was a scary experience, I just tried to find the Clarkson piece today in the Sun, as recommended by Brigham, I couldn’t find it but I got to look at the Sun on line; for a person who hasn’t looked at the Sun in ten years (I only used sneek a peek for the transfer news and who needs it now with the internet) anyway first time in ten years and boy did I find it scary. I cannot believe people still buy it: you get more up to date transfer information on line and the only other thing going for it is also far more explicitly available on line. Why does the Sun still exist?

  54. SharkeySure says:

    For the same reason that ‘certain websites’ still exist..?? ie to cater to the blinkered, the gullible and the downright stupid ?

    Just a wild guess…

  55. Carlito11 says:

    Morning all- sorry I didn’t have time to drop by yesterday. A really strong article dandan- I don’t agree with everything in it but the debate has already occurred! This is a ridiculous time to be up on a Sunday! Can’t remember a kick off quite this early before- I think we’ve had a few 12.45 kick offs but at least that can be described as lunchtime! 12 noon, on a Sunday, is best described as late breakfast time- virtually a morning kick off! I’m not happy!

  56. dandan says:

    Carlito. Ah well no doubt someone argued your corner yesterday. Right now, Its the middle of the day been up since 3.30 watching the cricket, tennis on as well, then the footy, splendid day can have a Siesta this afternoon.LOL

  57. Morning all

    New Post

  58. mangetout says:

    I say reform the popular Dick, Kerr Ladies FC (who played against and beat men’s teams in the ’20s) – just to see how long it takes every male football presenter on tv and radio to get sacked. i would estimate about approx 7 nanoseconds.

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