Why is Cesc Leaving?

Morning all. With still no clear answers to the ‘Cesc is going, Cesc is staying’ debate – disastrous PR really from a top English club – I thought we could guage the feeling among supporters by having a poll.

Obviously we know that he has a deep love for Barcelona and that a return to his boyhood club was always on the cards. But why now? Barcelona have come calling but he is our captain and well loved by all at Arsenal.  I don’t believe he loves Barcelona more than Arsenal so we have to look for another explanantion.

We have watched him being targetted by opponents for some harsh treatment during the past season. Of course if you’re playing against Arsenal you need to be able to stop Cesc having possesion and working his magic but too many fouls without retribution must surely anger the young man. Where’s the protection?

Cesc and others in the team have consistently gone public over the need to sign a couple of world-class players to complete the jigsaw.  What has Arsène promised him? Does he believe that Arsène will deliver?

How important is money to our Fab4? Barça can offer him higher wages than we ever will and make him a very rich man. But look what we can offer him ………………

At Arsenal he is loved, he is our Captain. If Arsène can fulfill his promise to add to the squad players that will help bring out the best in this team then we will go on to win silverware. But if he leaves we’ll never know.

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242 Responses to Why is Cesc Leaving?

  1. Rasp says:

    Thanks peaches, it’s the question everyone is asking even though we don’t want to…

    Having wavered between thinking Cecs will go, then stay, then don’t know, I fear that he is probably going to leave this summer.

    There is no real evidence that we would try to replace him with Gourcuff. He is a very good player, but I’d rather prioritise a new GK, CB and DM.

  2. andy says:

    I think its a combination of the top 3 really. To me he doesn’t seem to be driven by money like some. He has seen 2 horrific injuries in 2 years with us which must play on his mind and he has never hidden his love of barca. But i voted for 2nd 1. I know how most fans have been frustrated by the lack of investment in the team of late so its bound to affect the players even more so. I dont feel its wengers philosophy though as much as enforced financial constraints which hopefully may have been lifted now and may just get us another year of Cescs services along with some much needed re-inforcements.

  3. Harry Barracuda says:

    If I knew he definitely wanted to leave, it would be a good question.

    But the crux seems to be that if they can’t afford his transfer fee, he isn’t going, is he?

  4. Rasp says:

    True Harry,

    What I think is certain is that he would prefer to leave this summer if possible and that’s not a good thing for the team when the captain is a want-away. Having said that I know he will play for the shirt if he stays.

  5. Mike E says:

    he is spanish and to be honest barcelona is a wonderful city – and the weather is better too.

    he has done his time with us and i don’t hold it against him any more than say, hargreaves, or others in the past wanting to come back to the uk.

    most of us end up going back to near where we were born!

    as long as we get a decent fee i say good luck and thanks!

  6. richard says:

    Stop with the nonsense about being targeted for harsh treatment. It’s old and past its’ sell by date. No protection, get over it! Less you forget, you are the Arsenal that had Vieirra, Parlour, Pettit, Keown , Adams, Ashley Cole, et al when you were winning trophies. Harsh treatment didn’t seem like a bad thing when they were dishing it out.

  7. Cesc says:

    To win something?

  8. Rasp says:

    Hi Mike,

    That’s a brilliant comment. I know Cesc’s dad should keep his trap shut, but if Cesc was my son, I’d want him home, settled and playing for the best club in the world. We’ve seen how Bobby, PV, and TH have left but not lost the gratitude and love of the fans and I would expect it to be the same with Cesc.

  9. andy says:

    Its a good point Harry and I think your right that Barca wont pay more than maybe £35m so he aint going anywhere. But why would a young player who has been made club captain of one of the top european clubs, paid huge money and idolised by the fans give up the chance to become a true legend of that club to go and fight for a place at another club ?

  10. Rasp says:

    richard,

    it was just an option which it appears you won’t have chosen.

    Cesc,
    I think the getting in world class players equates to the same as ‘winning something’

  11. Mike E says:

    as a PS to my above post: like you, i hope aw splashes the cash he receives and that he shakes things up a bit this summer. two new BIG, STRONG, TALL centre backs, dm cover, new playmaker if cesc leaves and maybe joe cole also!!!

    but most of all, let’s get it sorted pdq!

    if aw goes to the wire yet again and tries to save a couple of million, nobody will be happy.

  12. andy says:

    So true Mike. We are all fed up of hearing 2 days after tw has closed about who we tried to get but failed. I would welcome Joe Cole but as a bonus not instead of defensive mid.

  13. Rasp says:

    It’s a great ambition Mike, but our recent history suggests that transfers are long drawn-out affairs. Any surprise signings are likely to be players who are not of the highest profile.

  14. Flint McCullough says:

    It could be any of those things.

    If it were me I would be thinking that I am at a stage where I can go home & play for just about the best side in the world, & perhaps I should take this opportunity because:

    i. they want me now
    ii. from what I have seen a football career can be gone in a second.

    Most of all I think the lad just wants to go home, simple as that.

    The club needs to move on & perhaps we should get this out of the way this close season, providing we get the proper market value for him. We definitely need to make a stand on that. This is a special circumstance & I think this will be the last time this needs to happen to us because we are rapidly becoming the only financialy viable, in Uefa terms, top club.

  15. Rasp says:

    That’s a good point about the financial viability FM, I can’t see UEFA enforcing any ruling that will penalise the top clubs so I’m interested to see how they will backtrack when the time comes – unless it only penalises English teams, in which case my persecution complex tells me they will be happy.

  16. Rasp says:

    I don’t know why we are continually being linked to Yaya Toure – he’s said he doesn’t want to come to Arsenal, so that should be an end to it. We don’t want to be anyone’s 2nd/3rd/4th choice.

  17. Looking at the poll results so far it seems that the majority of our voters feel that Arsene has been insincere in saying there will be 2 or 3 more signings.

    Poor Cesc, I say, no wonder he wants to concentrate on the world cup – it would drive you nuts waiting for Arsene to show his hand.

  18. I’m sure Yaya would have wanted to come if Kolo was still at Arsenal.

  19. bbb says:

    hes leaving because of the load of cowardly shit like diaby that he has to play with. i would leave to

  20. rasp – when I try to do the clever e in Arsene I get a crotchet – probably reflecting my mood – do you know why that would be?

  21. perrygrovesworld says:

    Sorry but the ‘won’t buy world class players’ should be couldn’t as we didn’t have the money until this year thanks to our lovely new stadium. It’s a pain in the Arse when Wenger is blamed for not buying World Class players… They cost more than we could afford up to now and yet we still stayed in the Top 4 ready for when we could challenge again. People whine on about the failed youth project and yet Cesc was just some jumped up kid from Barça when we got him for pittance. Now worth £40m and a superstar the boy wants to play with his mates and peer group pressure is getting to him while being in denial that he is a pawn in an election campaign. Maybe his dad needs a new house.

    Arsenal won’t comment and why should they. Football transfers are like poker, never reveal your hand or your position. Personally I’m more concerned about snaring Gourcuff and missing out on both. Cesc’s head has left the house, but he’s replaceable.

  22. shakyArsene says:

    You forgot to put doesn’t think he will win anymore trophies with Arsenal as one of your options.

  23. Rasp says:

    Maybe peaches, but it was the right decision to let Kolo go – not so with Gilberto who still had a couple of good seasons left in him.

  24. Morning bbb

    Good call but Diaby is poised to have a fantastic world cup according to Domenech.

  25. Rasp says:

    Morning pgw,

    You won’t get many on here disagreeing that we couldn’t afford world class players up to now. The poll relates to Arsène’s conviction to buy such players now there is money available.

  26. perrygrovesworld – I agree that the lack of world class purchases has to do with the building of our very classy new stadium but if we are to believe that there is money to spend now and it doesn’t get spent that would be a good reason for Cesc to be peeved IMO

  27. GM says:

    the reason of leaving is that Barcelona now living its gold-era. Signing Villa was another reason for Cesc to join the team, where all of his friends are playing. But I hope he stay for another season, couse his value will increase

  28. Rasp says:

    shaky,

    As I said to a previous comment, the winning trophies thing is linked to buying new players, so we thought that would be covered by the one choice.

  29. gunner17 says:

    arsenal should have made a deal with barca years ago whereby barca agree to leave cesc here to complete his development with some trophies and then they could get him for a small fee or a free before his 27th birthday…instead the issue of when he will go to barca has been creating a bigger and bigger stink every season. the arsenal board have been short-sighted and neglectful in leaving the situation to develop like it has.

    for cesc to leave before winning the league or the european cup for us would be a disgrace. he’s better than that and he owes the club a better ending than a protracted transfer saga with a crap transfer fee, no time to find a replacement, and no trophies to show for his time here.

    at the very least, i hope cesc sticks with us until we win the league, leaves us with a whopping £60m+ fee, and gives enough notice of his intentions so that wenger has ample time to replace him. if he does not do this he is actually screwing us over.

  30. shakyArsene says:

    I think you are all in denial and I mean no disrespect by that, but Wenger cannot get his head around the transfer fees of today, he is still stuck in the past before Chelsea and City came along and changed things. We have the money and mark my words he will not spend on big name players, he just doesn’t get it.

  31. perrygrovesworld says:

    Peaches, I agree.. this is the year where Wenger buys and secures his position at the club in the final year of his contract. To secure his future he has to win something for the fans and show Cesc a reason to stay and indeed attract new classy players.

  32. irishgunner says:

    Cesc is always going to leave us for Barcelona one day no matter if we were winning the EPL every season, however he may be hurried into going quicker if we don’t move up that step from pretenders to contenders.

    I don’t think money comes into it an ounce. What would worry Cesc is that Barcelona would find another Xavi/Iniesta and he’d lose out on his favoured position and/or he’d pick up an injury.

  33. Rasp says:

    shaky,

    It’s not a popular view, but I think David Dein was the perfect foil to Arsène’s cautious approach.

    I suspect you are correct and he just can’t equate the prices being asked against what we have available to spend. Having said that, he should never buy any player that is injury prone or trouble in the dressing room however cheap they are as that strategy always seems to backfire (but we did make a profit on Ade I suppose)

  34. jeremy goldsmith says:

    Cesc is leaving because during the last five years Arsenal have won nothing. He watched how MU and Chelsea swept all the prizes with their investment in ready made/made to play players. Arsene went on a different route by investing in potential not for one year but the last five six years.
    Cesc has had enough of broken promises and aint going to spend the next and god knows how many more seasons before the gunners hit the jackpot.
    So don’t be surprised if Arsene carries on getting the next hugely promising fifteen year old kid who will become a epl star in 2018.

  35. Morning Irish – what do you think about the idea put forward by gunner17 that there should have been some sort of pre-agreement about when Cesc could leave – if indeed he wanted to.

  36. Rasp says:

    Hi irish,

    I think Cesc would start most games for Barca maybe by having a midfield 3? and I also expect him to replace one of the other two as a starter in the WC by the end of the tournament.

  37. shakyArsene says:

    And Rasp that is why he will go at the end of the season. I know that sounds horrible but he is too old and not as hungry to change. He cannot equate in his mind spending 20 million on a player, it’s crazy to him. Dein was the perfect foil, you are spot on about that, Wenger trusted him and Dein was a savvy businessman, but penny pinching PHW and the rest of the board are the wrong people to have in his ear, they are all too alike and stuck in the past. That is why We will not win a trophy this year and Wenger will leave with his name mostly in tact as our greatest manger.

  38. gunner17 says:

    and if barca think that they can steal him for £30m when he has 10 years of world-player-of-the-year-level output ahead of him, when he is f*cking contracted to us until 2014, and when they have splashed £80m on a swedish tree and £35m this window on a spanish striker with only 2 years left at the top…well they can just fuck off.

    cesc is a £60m player now for what he has become and for all the years ahead of him. the second he wins a major trophy he will become an £80m player. barca know this and are seriously trying it on.

  39. perrygrovesworld says:

    Shaky, Chelsea are in obscene debt £760M thereabouts and City are an arab’s hobby so hardly a comparison. United have debt problems and don’t have the cash they had before the Glaziers; they are only have a budget because of the Ronaldo sale and much of that was plowed into debts, plus income from the tickets, merch etc. Trophies are meant to bring money in the end but too many teams have massive unpayable debts alongside their trophies. Professional sport is a business and football is spend thrift. When UEFA finally crack down on indebted clubs we will be one of those that spends based on income from the game not some rich sugar daddy that holds the club to ransom.

  40. irishgunner says:

    Morning Peaches and Rasp.

    Don’t think that’d ever work Peaches for a number of reasons. One, I don’t think any club or player would agree to it – its too much trying to predict the future.

    The nearest you get to that situation is when you sell a player but have the first option to buy them back i.e. Barca sell us (compensation) Cesc and included in the contract is first refusal for Barca at a set price so if Cesc ever wanted to leave Arsenal, Barca would get first right to refusal at a price already agreed so there is no bidding war. Real Madrid do it very often with youngsters. But again it only benefits Barca and not us.

  41. I don’t think he’s leaving because we have won nothing – I think he’s leaving because we haven’t shown ambition. For example to keep Almunia between the sticks this season shows a very laissez-faire attitude by the manager, similarly continuing with players who are not improving.

    It must be very frustrating for players of Cescs’ quality to see errors of judgement by Arsene not corrected.

  42. irishgunner says:

    SharkyArsene – That spending will have to stop. If any club is spending more than they bring in they will be kicked out of European competition.

    Now while some will say that the clubs will go form their own Superleague I don’t see this happening – 1) its in the interest of the clubs to live within their means 2) the German clubs aren’t allowed to overspend anyway and they do just fine so they are a model to follow and Italy is heading down that road 3) I think the fans are getting a bit tired of the big transfers and wages because we end up paying for it indirectly.

  43. Rasp says:

    gunner17,

    You are correct of course, Barca are trying it on, and so would we and every other club in the same position. We have made insultingly low offers for players in the past and been rejected outright, the only difference is that we don’t come back with an improved offer.

  44. gunner17 says:

    and if arsene wenger and the board let him go for £30m this year i will be disgusted with them. it’s like when a normal guy has an attractive girlfriend but can’t really accept that he deserves her. as soon any passing male with an ounce of confidence looks at her he turns to jelly and gives in to his insecurities. pathetic.

    let him go this year if you must, but make barca pay. big clubs extract big fees from other big clubs when they take their under-contract big players.

    arsenal should use manU’s dealings with madrid over ronaldo as an example.

  45. shakyArsene says:

    Perry I’m not saying go and spend like Chelsea and Citeh, I’m saying at least invest in a world class goal keeper, that costs money or David Villa when he said he was interested in coming. This year we wiped a huge amount of debt off our books but we have taken a MAJOR step back in our standing in world football, when people like Yaya Toure don’t want to come here that sends a strong message that we are on the way down, we are in danger (only a small danger) of becoming irrelevant as a top club.

  46. Irish – If a sugar daddy buys a £30m plus player surely thats a gift to the club isn’t it?

  47. rasp – you need a sad face after your last comment don’t you?

  48. perrygrovesworld says:

    Irishgunner.. Spot on. That’s why the kids at Arsenal Action are clueless, If we had the German model, a lot of the stupidity would go away and we could get back to the way football clubs should be, self sustainable. Look at the way Portsmouth has been fucked around by rich kid hobbyists. Even Abramovich wants Chelsea to be self sustainable again…..

  49. andy says:

    Arsene doesn’t like buying the finished article. If there is a fault with AW its not IMO that he relies too heavily on youth but that he always wants to prove others wrong by finding a hidden gem. The problem is that all of those gems from yesteryear were walking into a solid foundation of a team and now its the foundations which have the problem. We have some great players but the heart and leadership is missing. I’m not knocking Cesc but he’s no Tony Adams or Patrick vieira. Perhaps Cesc going could be a blessing in disguise, AW can not take the captaincy from him without causing problems but to me TV would make a better leader. If Cesc goes then thankyou very much, the club will go on, we will get a more suitable captain plus lots of cash. win win.

  50. perrygrovesworld says:

    So here’s a question, what would you say if we took Joe Cole as Cesc left? personally Nasri performs his role already…..

  51. king gooner says:

    richard or should i say “dick”-not sure if your’e a northern monkey banging on about arsenal behaving like southern softies or a spuddie?but 3 leg breaks in 4 seasons is not a coincidence-no matter what you say-we’re on record as the most fouled against club-why?

  52. I was thinking more of it being positioned at the end of the comment ;)

  53. perrygrovesworld says:

    Andy, Arshavin was the finished article but hasn’t settled away from Russia…

  54. irishgunner says:

    Nope – not all the time. It depends on what agreement the owner has with the club. It was said that Ambramovich wanted ALL money back from Chelsea that he ploughed into it but that he has settled for a lesser amount. Not all are gifts but mainly loans.

    Look at the Mancs, the Glazers have royally fecked them up – Ronaldo was sold so that they could refinanace the club once again and as much as Ferguson protests to the contrary its true – otherwise they’d have bought Ribery and not Valencia.

    Perry – Exactly. I think the German FA run their league very well. Yes they have their problems in particular with corruption but they are very out in the open about it and are doing their damnedest to make German football something to be proud of.

  55. gunner17 says:

    i think it would have been perfectly possible for the club to come to some sort of understanding with barca…

    i think it’s possible even now…

    arsenal can just barca a fax saying the following…

    “if you want him this summer, he will cost £100m
    if you want him next summer, he will cost £80m
    if you want him in summer 2012, he will cost £60m
    if you want him in summer 2013, he will cost £40m
    if you want him in summer 2014, have him, he’s free

    but you’ll have to decide which option you want now!”

  56. andy says:

    True Perry but look how long it took to get him. Also he may be the finished article but wrong position.

  57. Rasp says:

    I think Arshavin played the majority of last season carrying an injury (or two) and was played out of position quite outrageously as ‘target man up front’. He has already paid his transfer fee and will be great value next season if he is used in his best position and has players around him of a similar level.

  58. irishgunner says:

    Andy – Let me counter-act that with the million dollar question – Is anyone really the finished article? we could say that David Villa is the finished article but he might not like Barcelona and long to move back to Valencia and it could affect him on the field which would lead some to argue he’s not the finished article because he couldn’t fit into the Barca squad…which of course might not be the reason.

    Some say Imbrahimovich is the finished article :lol:

  59. perrygrovesworld says:

    Yes Gunner17 but what if Cesc improved as a player over those years… also imagine if he had a brilliant World Cup, will we get more afterwards than before..?

  60. shakyArsene says:

    well said gunner 17

  61. Rasp says:

    We won’t sell Cesc before the WC – that’s for sure.

  62. gunner17 ;) excellent plan – I’d fax that to Arsenal now if I were you

  63. dandan says:

    Morning all, perry you got it spot on @11.45.
    Would love to know what real (not presumed or 2+2 =5) evidence anyone has that either AW or the board are not aware of the current market prices or that they don’t know what they are doing.
    Why the hell should they rush to sign anyone the window doesn’t open till tomorrow. No doubt AW would like them in time for pre-season although that will delayed a couple of weeks for many because of the world cup.

    I also find the lack of ambition tag, generally designated as they wont buy the most expensive players disingenerous, to say it equates only to a reluctsnce to spend money is I in itself simplistic.
    In every football discussion or article the subject of indebtedness comes up. In five years time when we are solvent and all the spend for glory merchants have either gone broke or in the case of rich owners been legislated out, will our buy now boys be saying,
    of coarse I was one of the Arsenal fans pleading for patience? You can bet your sweet bibby they will

  64. irishgunner says:

    Of course if you set a price then you need to take inflation into account – its all rather messy.

  65. gunner17 says:

    cesc will obviously improve but the player’s value will be limited by how may years he has left on his contract and also by the market rate for top top players…i can’t see transfers going much over £80m…the next few years will not see drastic increases in transfer fees like we have seen. hopefully.

  66. andy says:

    Irish. Good point replace “finished article” with “recognised star”

  67. perrygrovesworld says:

    So come on I’m curious who would like Joe Cole in our post Cesc team?

  68. irishgunner says:

    Andy – Yep and there in lays the problem. Some people say Michael Carrick is a “recognised star” of English football and I think he’s very much over-rated. I think a lot of today’s “stars” are over-rated – not jumping on the auld AKB bus but maybe Arsene feels the same??

  69. gunner17 says:

    the thing i am getting at is that the cost to us of cesc leaving now would be massive. the disruption to the team would be massive. we would basically be ruling ourselves out of contention for trophies for another three years. the cost to barca of taking cesc now must reflect that.

  70. Morning dandan – ambition doesn’t have to mean spending ludicrous amounts of money, it also has to do with using our own resources better.

    Almunia cost us games and points and continued to do so with no change, often players were having a nightmare and left on to ‘wake up’ instead of making a substitution – why are players named in the squad and left sitting on the bench?

    That shows a lack of ambition.

  71. Rasp says:

    I’d take Cole but not sure where we’d play him. Nasri/Ramsey must be seen as the eventual replacements for Cesc. AA is pretty good on the left. Maybe if we let Denilson and Rosicky/Bendtner go, there’d be an argument for getting Cole in. Ray Wilkins said on the radio this morning that he is a ‘London Boy’, by this I take it to mean he will either be at chavski, totnum or the Arsenal next season, and I’d put us at the bottom of that list.

  72. andy says:

    I like Joe Cole, he’s a good player and if we get him for free then great but he’s not the answer to our problems and if he were to become one of Arsenes quota of 3 summer signings it would be a waste. JC aswell as GK CD and DM and i’d be happy.

  73. perrygrovesworld says:

    No Gunner 17 you’re wrong, United lost Ronaldo, it changed nothing. No player is bigger than the club, history shows that. If we buy Gourcuff at 23 he won’t want to go back to Bordeaux and he is almost as good in my opinion and can immediately link with Chamakh. Life goes on; everyone in the football world knew Cesc would go home…

  74. andy says:

    Irish. I’m not saying he’s entirely wrong with his view but in the past it was easier to make players great in a great squad. If you were to put Diaby alongside Parlour, Petit and Pires with the original back 5 behind them would he be as good as vieira ?

  75. gunner17 says:

    joe cole is no replacement for cesc…he’s more an experienced version of wilshere. more attacking. more of a flank player.

    cesc is an attacking central midfielder, like a classier lampard or scholes…to replace him we’d need someone similar…

    wenger might get cole, but he’ll use diaby/ramsey/nasri to replace cesc.

  76. I would have Joe Cole too but he should be an extra – not one of AW’s targets. He is experienced and good with his feet, he would definiely play Wengerball.

    Would he be offered a starting place? I doubt it, does he offer more than Nasri/Ramsey? Probably not but good to have on the bench and they could both learn from him.

  77. irishgunner says:

    Will Gallas stay or go?

  78. Rasp says:

    4 central defenders out of contract, Gallas, Sol, Senderos, Silvestre – very bad planning!

  79. Do you want to write that one for tomorrow Irish?

  80. gunner17 says:

    perrygrovesworld…

    no player is bigger than the club, but wenger has built this team around cesc. when he’s not there the performaces are hit or miss. very unreliable. no one has shown they can step seamlessly into his shoes. there is no obvious candidate to come in and do what he does if he leaves now.

    if he goes now, either someone internal will need to grow into his role, or someone new has to come in, or the team has to play a different way. whichever of these happens, we won’t be challenging for another 2-3 years.

  81. dandan says:

    Hi Peaches.

    When have you ever seen a GK substituted for making a mistake, you just don’t do it,it further shakes their confidence.
    Young players sit on the bench to gain experience of the atmosphere.
    Why does AW chuck all the strikers on together sometimes when we are seeking a goal, does that show lack of ambition.
    To say that someone of AW standing lacks ambition is IMHO opinion ludicrous. Given his obvious agitation when things are not going well

  82. gnarleygeorge9 says:

    Evening all

    Good points peaches.

    dandan

    You got it right towards the end of the last post. The Ashes are coming……home by January :lol:

  83. irishgunner says:

    Andy that’s true – more than true. Average players can elevate their performance when playing beside class players.

    Damn – remember when we had Pires, Ljunberg, Bergkamp, Henry, Paddy, Petit etc – did we really respect what we had back then? did we know how lucky we were? Do y’all ever think to yourself “if we had a team like that again, this time I’d respect it much more” because at the time I kind of took it for granted.

  84. gunner17 says:

    i say we fight to keep him for at least another year or two, groom a replacement with him still at the club (nasri, ramsey, diaby, or someone new: arteta, gourcuff…)and then sell him to barca for a nice little £30-40m fee a couple years before his contract expires.

  85. perrygrovesworld says:

    peaches its funny but we are now bringing in players that can be ‘learnt from’ like Sol and now possibly Cole. Popular theory commented by Lee Dixon is that many of the Invincibles were moved on too soon and the over 30s deals meant that the Arsenal spirit got lost. My biggest regret was the departure of Pires. This is possibly the bigger problem of the last few years as the carry over to Project Youth lacked those classic players passing what made the team special and instilling the fight.

  86. dandan – If you don’t substitute a keeper for making errors then what do you do? Leave them to carry on making more errors………..

    I agree the young players are on the bench for experience but what exactly is the experience gained?

  87. irishgunner says:

    Will Gallas stay or go, Peaches? I can indeed and give pros and cons of keeping him?

    Ha ha talking about goalkeepers been subbed. Ireland played Turkey in a friendly going back a season or two or three ago. Turkey subbed their keeper in about the 50th min and brought on their sub keeper but he was so crap they’d to take him off about 15mins later – I know it was only a friendly (which is why they should have kept him on) but it was very embarrassing for the poor guy.

  88. dandan says:

    Yes, name me one you have seen substituted Peaches It doesnt happen.

  89. Excellent comment perry – Pires being moved on was a dreadful decision as was Gilberto as rasp mentioned earlier.

    dandan – I’m not saying that a keeper should be subbed during a match – obviously – but following a few games where the same errors are not being addressed surely at some point there has to be a change.

  90. Northbanker says:

    Why do I feel that Arsenal have some sort of deal already in place with Barca to buy Cesc? After all Barca and their players seem to have suddenly gone very quiet on the tapping up front.
    Wenger says to Cesc leave it to me to sort things out for you. But certain conditions must first be met. The first being Arsenal signing a world class replacement for Cesc before selling him to Barca. But as Barca cannot afford his market value it will be £30 million plus player(s) in exchange. The player(s) in exchange have also already been agreed between the 2 clubs. Forget about possible exchange players saying through the media that they’re not interested as they’ve been told to say that to stop speculation.
    Then without the Cesc money in the bank Wenger can negotiate his replacement without risking the selling club raising the price. Thats my take on it though I’m probably wrong as most of us usually are with Wengers transfer dealings.
    After checking the stats it surprised me that Cesc has only started 10 more PL games than RVP over the last 2 seasons. So maybe there is some credence in the ‘too little protection from referees’ argument as a reason to sell him.

  91. dandan says:

    AHH that I agree with 100% Peaches, and I think The Spanish waiter deserved to have been dropped, which incidentally he probably was, under the guise of an injury at the season end.

  92. Rasp says:

    Almunia’s so clumsy he probably dropped himself :oops:

  93. andy says:

    Irish @ 12.51. I know exactly what you mean. We get commentators drooling over The Arsenals beautiful game now but its got nothing on that team. An honour to have watched them (even if only on the telly)

  94. Rasp says:

    Hi Northbanker,

    That’s an interesting reversal of logic – that we should sell a player because he gets kicked too much? Presumably any very talented player we put on the pitch will get the same attention until we pose a similar threat to the opposition. A team that is perceived to rely heavily on one player will always see that player targetted.

  95. Is that a yes then Irish?

  96. Northbanker says:

    Hi Rasp,

    I couldn’t agree more that thats the wrong way to do things. I agree too that until we pose the same threat the oppo will continue to kick our best players.
    But is Wenger willing to go down that road? If not then I see why he has decided to replace a player he will lose anyway sooner or later. Then hopefully he’ll also add a bit more steel to the side if the Cesc deal does go through. But at the moment thats all cojecture – we’ll just have to wait and see. Cesc may have even told Wenger that he’ll only stay if he beefs up the side to give him more protection. Who knows what they said at their little meeting?

  97. Thinking about the Invincibles they were beauty and the beast – a much better combination than just style which when it works is what makes us fabulous now.

  98. Rasp says:

    That’s the big question Northbanker. We won’t know the answer until August as you say, but my suspiucion is that the ‘big signing’ was Chamakh and I don’t expect a lot more players of his calibre I’m afraid.

    Arsene has stated that the main problem is with the defence but somehow it appears that he doesn’t consider the GK to be a defender?

  99. irishgunner says:

    Rasp – He did say that he doesn’t trust his judgment in goalkeepers and gets advice from “experts” – now that’s what you call passing the buck.

  100. Rasp says:

    It’s all about balance and having a strong spine to the team peaches, to list two of the most over-used clichés ;) but at present we are lacking in both areas.

  101. Rasp says:

    I don’t trust his judgement in ‘experts’ then irish!

  102. irishgunner says:

    Neither do I, neither do I.

  103. irishgunner says:

    Should Wellington go into our list of buys or does he not count cos we’d already bought him, he just hadn’t been allowed to join us??!!

  104. Big Raddy says:

    Some fine comments today, interesting discussions.

    I cannot swallow this fantasy that the Board not spending results in personal gain. They could have sold their shares at anytime but have the long-term interests of the club at heart

    However, some people love conspiracy theories….. The Yanks never reached the moon, Lady Di was murdered, The CIA shot JFK, 9/11 was an Israeli/CIA plot. etc etc

    It seems clear to me that a lad who is Barca born would prefer to return to his home. Better food, better weather, better social life, his friends, his mother tongue, and his family. What would you do, stay in chilly London?

  105. Big Raddy says:

    Irish. He looks a fine player. Shame he is so young

  106. irishgunner says:

    I LOVE conspiracy theories with a passion Raddy – they are far more interesting that what actually happened.

    Did you know that wasn’t the Titanic that sank – it was her sister ship, a fake, a phony 8O

  107. Rasp says:

    Hi Raddy,

    No doubt about it – it’s a no brainer, I just hope his head is in the right place if Barca can’t come up with a sensible price.

    BTW – the CIA did assassinate JFK ;)

  108. BigL says:

    He is leaving for the same reason as Henry. He wasnts to play with world class players and wants to win.

    I read that Cesc made his mind up in January when no signings came in. Apparently he was ‘very dispointed’.

    I am hoping that the resason that nothing has been said so far is because its a wait and see game. Wait to see if Wenger signs some quality that gives us a realistic chance of winning something.

    If Cesc goes it really is a major blow, not becuase we prove we are a selling team unable to keep decent player, but because any replacement will need time to settle into the role. Guaranteed it will be another trophyless season.

    Lets hope wenger takes off his rose tiinted specs for this one and buys some quality to play alongside him

  109. irishgunner says:

    All the South Americans players move quite young though don’t they? He’s meant to be a real coup is Wellington. Maybe it might have been better to leave him in Brazil for another year because he was getting first team football while here he’ll be stuck in the reserves.

  110. dandan says:

    Has just posted Rasp, some positive pills to restore Confidence and beef up his happiness levels LOL.
    We are the Arsenal, we will sign some new players, The times they are a changing Rasp, Pity I cant sing or would have phoned my friend

    Irish dont you know a leprechaun who can do some happy talk for us a sorta Sammy Nelson look alike. would be fine

    Come on you Gooners

  111. Big Raddy says:

    No I didn’t Irish !

    Don’t start Rasp !

    In my opinion, the departure of Cesc is entirely within Mr. Wenger’s hands. Cesc has a contract, end of……

    I cannot believe Cesc would throw a wobbly and refuse to give 100%, after all, he earns a fortune and is Club Captain.

    One of the problems of player power is the players believe they do not have to adhere to any rules of behaviour.

    Cesc gave his word and commitment to the club. He has a moral duty to see it through, UNLESS both the club and Cesc agree to terminate.

    Let us look at it the other way. Cesc’s form disappears, AFC refuse to pay him. What do you think would happen? Exactly, …… & if the Club are forced to adhere to a contract then so should the player.

  112. irishgunner says:

    Dandan – Did you know that Leprechauns are now protected by the EU – you are no longer allowed to go chase them for their pot of gold.

    I do wish I was joking but I’m not. EU :roll:

  113. irishgunner says:

    That was a conspiracy theory there Raddy just to clear up. Its a great programme to watch though – I suppose one could call it a documentary – about how people claimed the Titanic wasn’t finished on time and to save face they sent out its sister ship.

  114. Tonys says:

    If you had ever been to the private members club called Barcelona Showgirls then this really wouldn’t be that much of a mystery at all.

  115. thenry says:

    why are people so behind Arsenal sigining up players immediately? only free transfers can be signed now all else must wait till july 1st. buying player has a lot attached to it and cannot be rushed.
    i trust arsene and the board to make the right decisions as they ahve done.
    if cesc wants to leave barca know that it will take a bid in exceess of 50 mill as we have no wish to sell.
    we should do what they do in europe and set a buyout clause like barca have for messi which is set at 140mill euros, if they think hes worth that then he is not 3 times the player is ie their offer of 35mill for fab.
    just calm down everyone wenger will already have thought of who to replace him with long before most know it all fans.
    in ARSENE WE TRUST!!!

  116. Rasp says:

    Hi thenry,

    I think its folly to think we can replace Cesc. We can buy another creative attacking midfielder, but arguably we already have 3 or 4 of those. Even if Cesc went, it should not be high priority to replace him before looking in more under-manned areas.

    Arsène cannot know 100% who he would replace Cesc with if that is his aim, as a deal has not been struck, in the same way as the Cesc deal is only a negotiation at this stage.

  117. Rasp says:

    The transfer window opens on June the 9th not July 1st as in previous years. I don’t know if this has anything to do with the WC or is an ongoing change. Pre-contracts can be drawn up in advance as with Chamakh, but registration has to take place in the transfer window.

  118. kelsey says:

    Afternoon all.

    I am not privy to any inside information, and I doubt anyone here is either.I take the view that no one player is bigger than the club, and if cesc wants to go back to his roots, one can fully understand that.If we had won the title or the CL I doubt the situation would be any different.

    At the beginning of the season, RVP stalled on signing an extension to his contract(so we are led to be believed)and the theory came out then as it is again with cesc, that we needed more experienced quality world class players in the side to make him stay.

    I don’t believe much money was available and some believe that Wenger was adamant that the club should first and foremost be financially stable. Who told him that ? The board run the club not Wenger, so i believe he was working under instructions, and that was the right move IMO.

    The World is in the worst recession for 70 years and yet footballers demands in monetary terms are forever increasing.The two don’t go together.

    barcelona hasn’t got such a great winter climate, a new wealth tax has been introduced for high earners and the equivalent of VAT is going up from 16% to 18% tomorrow.basic tax has also increased, so as far as cesc is concerned money cannot be the main factor.

    With regards to being captain, I don’t rate him as one of our stand out leaders in the last few decades.In fact I think he was only made captain by Wenger to appease him, and possibly he knew that the ineviatable would happen sooner than later with cesc.

    Again i repeat none of ushave inside knowledge, but if he were to go,i would rather it was now than next season.his value will not change before or after the World Cup. All we can do is wait and see, but in any case i would give the armband to vermaelen.

  119. irishgunner says:

    Tomorrow’s post is in drafts Rasp/Peaches.

  120. kelsey says:

    Evening irish, i enjoyed your comment on my post ;)

  121. irishgunner says:

    That was my evil twin Kelsey – I can’t leave my eyes off her for five minutes or she goes off writing mad statement ;)

  122. irishgunner says:

    Oh wait now – what comment was that? :lol:

    The weekend blurred into one day – I wasn’t on yesterday so it must be Saturday your referring to. I’m confused :?

  123. Big Raddy says:

    I agree Kelsey regarding Cesc not moving for financial reasons. Having €30 or €35m in the bank at retirement will make no difference whatsoever to his lifestyle.

    As to the World Class signings. We are The Arsenal and do not get demanded to by the players- not RvP, not Cesc, not TH not anyone

    I think Cesc can be a standout leader. His performance at Stoke and v AV were of a Captain leading from the front.

    As to the next Cpt. I would make it RvP with TV as Vice captain

  124. London says:

    Hi All

    Cotswolds this weekend, long walks, clay pigeon shooting, swimming, tennis, yada, yada, yada,

    Right, back to football, I just want to clear up one point that is bugging me and that is the rumour that Barça are broke — absolute tosh.

    This all stems from one blog or another saying that they are 450 million in debt, this may be true but that does not make them broke….far from it.

    Why?……a quick example……which country in the world has the biggest debt………yes, right first time, it is the USA…..no other country comes close. Are they broke, of course not.

    The USA are not broke because they have excellent credit — so do Barcelona.

    In Spain, there is something called “La Caixa” this roughly translates to mean the Bank of Catalonia and to give you a rough perspective, imagine that HSBC were originally from the Holloway Road and you are getting close to understanding the association, although, not fully because there is more, 99% of the people in Catalonia bank with La Caixa and 99% of Catalans support Barcelona.

    In short, this is a very successful bank that can and will bank roll Barcelona until the end of the earth.

    Barcelona are no more skint than the USA so enough with that nonsense.

    Having cleared that up, all there is left to say is that if they want Cesc and he wants to go, they should be made to find 50 million or they can sling their hook.

  125. irishgunner says:

    The financial side of football really bores me. I bought “Arsenal – The Making of a Modern Superclub” about two years ago and still haven’t read it.

    The only numbers I care about are those on the scoreboard.

  126. London says:

    Hi Irish

    You probably don’t dream about owning Arsenal that’s why it bores you.

  127. kelsey says:

    Hi london,,

    I am sure you know that La Caixa financed the deal for Kaka and Ronaldo .

    BR I do disagree about cesc being a perfect captain.I would like to see someone more vocal and more physical. It may seem strange but we only got 1 red card last season, are we softies, not really, just need an Adams/Viera type player to get stuck in, as Sol has done in the latter part of the season.

  128. irishgunner says:

    No London – money matters just bore me in general.

    All people ever talk about money, money, money. Can’t take it with ya…

  129. irishgunner says:

    I thought we got no red card Kelsey

  130. London says:

    Irish

    The one with the most at the end wins.

  131. irishgunner says:

    You win London.

  132. kelsey says:

    Not sure irish, but i thought it was one.

    I hate it when every time a player got red carded in a live TV game, the commentators always make a point of saying this is the (whatever the number is) red cards since Wenger took over. They never say that about other teams.

  133. irishgunner says:

    Bugs me too Kelsey.

    I do think we got through the season without a red card. Whether that is a good or bad thing I don’t know.

  134. Rasp says:

    Didn’t TV get 2 yelows = 1 red in a game?, or was it Song?

  135. Big Raddy says:

    Leaders like TA and PV are rare. apart from JT and Cana there are not too many of that type of Captain

    Stevie G, Giggs, Modic etc, are inspirational leaders as is Cesc

  136. Big Raddy says:

    TV. 2 yellows West Ham at THOF

  137. irishgunner says:

    A-HA

    Could have been TV think your right Rasp.

  138. Big Raddy says:

    Joe Cole? I think the man has Spurs written all over him!

  139. irishgunner says:

    He does Raddy – never seen him as a Gunner.

    Gourcuff seems more “us”

  140. Big Raddy says:

    I would love Goucuff but only if CF leaves. Otherwise we are well served in this area.

    GK, CB and tough, large DM first…..

  141. GhostFace says:

    Fantastic Article.

    As they say the proof is in the pudding.

    You asked the question.

    The fans have spoken.

    Does Cesc love Barca any less than Alexander Hleb?

  142. GhostFace says:

    BR

    I think Cesc and Gourcuff can play together like Xavi and Iniesta.

    YG can certainly play where Diaby/Nasri are currently

  143. Big Raddy says:

    GF ! Where ya been fella?

  144. Big Raddy says:

    Interesting theory. I would agree if TR or AA were better defensive players. To have 3 powder puff MF’s is too many

  145. GhostFace says:

    Hi BR

    How are you?

    Ive been on summer vacation and taken time off all things Arsenal amidst this interesting Cesc situation!

    Howz your summer going?

  146. irishgunner says:

    Agreed.

    If we buy a DM does he play alongside Song or does Song get dropped? I can’t see him getting dropped after last season.

    I think we need a box to box DM to fit in beside Song.

  147. GhostFace says:

    TR can be found mostly in defense anyways….he plays much more deeper than Song at-times.

    I remember the ball he gave away for the Tevez goal in the carling cup.

    I couldnt tell if he was playing DM or RB.

  148. irishgunner says:

    Rosicky does love a good tackle and if you could compare his stats between pre and post injury you’d see he did a lot more before the injury.

    He’s not the same TR7 yet!

  149. Big Raddy says:

    GF. Coldest May in living record. Ave temp 11C. But apart from the weather and the financial meltdown and the Cesc situation and North Korea, I am fine :-)

  150. Big Raddy says:

    Irish. !! You let your loins rule your head……

  151. GhostFace says:

    Irish

    Its like you and I have the same heart!

    We buy a world Class Box to box midfielder with an engine like a horse.

    We will be winning something for sure.

    Ofcoarse a keeper would always help.

    But i feel we need one more creative midfielder in the team….we are too dependent on Cesc.

  152. Big Raddy says:

    TR doesn’t have enough bite. I believe that if we are to tighten up defensively, we need another tough tackling MF alongside Song. Perhaps Diaby can become that man, but I doubt it. Ramsey will be that chap eventually.

  153. irishgunner says:

    You’ll see Raddy, you’ll see don’t be a doubting Tomas (get it, get it??) ;)

    Ghostface – Yep. I think that Song’s biggest problem is his lack of pace. He can put in a hard tackle and head but has zip pace.

  154. GhostFace says:

    2 midfieders for me.

    YG and Toure.

    2 Defenders.

    1 GK.

    Sorted.

    A Torres would help!

    BR

    Its still winter :shock: ?

    I wouldnt mind a cold breeze every now and then its well in the 80’s (Fahrenheit)

    And yes we are praying cuz we have an oil spill problem :D

  155. Big Raddy says:

    Just my point Irish. Goalscoring is not the problem, particularly with our new boy.

    We need better Defensive concentration and coaching

  156. irishgunner says:

    ” oil spill problem” LOL it was an oil spill problem a week ago, I think its fair to call it a catastrophe now.

  157. Big Raddy says:

    New GK

    Sagna New CB/JD TV Clichy

    Song Cesc New DM AA

    Chamakh/ Theo RvP/NB

  158. irishgunner says:

    That we do Raddy but whom??

    Hangelaand is too slow I think.

  159. GhostFace says:

    Apologies.

    Im reading up to see what you guys think the reason why Cesc wants to leave.

    I dont think his love for Barca is strong enough.

    Obviously he’s not happy.

    It seems to me AFC are about making money…which is alright.

    The question is…when does it stop?

  160. Big Raddy says:

    GF Which town are you in?

  161. GhostFace says:

    AA cant play in midfield BR!

    LOL

    It will be AA before Bendtner.

    And I think AW has said that Chamakh will play Centrally next year

  162. Big Raddy says:

    He isn’t too slow if we defend deeper, and stop using both CB’s as extra MF’s!

    Sol isn’t too slow

  163. Big Raddy says:

    Why not GF. AA can play a Ray Parlour type role

  164. GhostFace says:

    I live in New Port Jersey City, Its scorching hot over here.

    I would kill to go to the WC if only because of the cold

  165. GhostFace says:

    Parlour was a tuff tackler and tracked back like a mad dog…

    I cant see it!

  166. Big Raddy says:

    Is that Jersey New York?

    Big city, high temps. Nasty.

  167. irishgunner says:

    ” Sol isn’t too slow” Shhhhhhhhhh don’t tell Arsene that or he won’t buy anyone.

  168. Big Raddy says:

    GF. Neither can I, but as we play 4-3-3 AA won’t need to play too deep

  169. Big Raddy says:

    You could be right Irish. With JD coming through and the possibility of Song playing CB, he may decide to wait until WG is confirmed as leaving.

    But….. if we were not going to buy a CB, why did AW try to buy Smalling from Fulham?

  170. GhostFace says:

    Yea, Jersey.

    New Port is closer to the coast…and the closer you get to the coast the quieter it gets.

    What I cant stand it the 2hr train ride to work though.

    Cant even sleep on the train for 2 reasons.

    1. Saftey

    2. Bad breathe :D

  171. London says:

    If you think of how much you hate Barcelona right now, imagine how much Bordeaux hate us, we have just swiped their best striker on a free and are eyeing their best midfielder.

    Hi GF

    Good to see you back.

  172. GhostFace says:

    Arshavin wants to play behind the striker…i think its a novel idea you’ve suggested that might work BR…

    But i dont think Nikk B can play on the left…Has he played there before?

    Maybe for the national team but not for Arsenal.

    Even he too it seems is dreaming of playing for Barca.

    We may not Sign Sol….I fear the terms of agreement wouldnt suite him.

    He wants a 2 year deal.

    Arsenal will never give him that.

  173. irishgunner says:

    I do think we will sign a CB – what about Silvestre though – what is the deal with him? I thought his contract was up?

    London – :lol:

    GF – NY, NY is one fine city. I’ll return on holiday soon. Was there at Christmas time before – beautiful.

  174. GhostFace says:

    Hi London

    How are you?

    What do you make of the Cesc thing?

  175. Big Raddy says:

    He does play or drift there for Denmark, as you will see in the WC.

    Any non- English player dreams of playing for one of the top 3, and why not? MU/RM/Barca. They are the Ferrari of the football world. Not always the best team but have history and cache’

  176. Big Raddy says:

    Irish. I thought so as well.

    Best ask London. He is the expert on Silvestre ;-)

  177. GhostFace says:

    Hey Irish its beautiful to some! Tedious to others! Summer time is the best time to be here though.

    Free Concerts, Free/Cheap Broadway shows, Lots of food and amusement parks?

    Did you go for the Ball drop in Times Square?

  178. GhostFace says:

    Big R

    Madrid are like a Lexus, Expensive and have all kinds of (job) safety issues,

    Utd are like any ugly expensive car, Sure it takes you to work. But just because you are ugly doesnt mean you should be considered class

    Barca are like Lamborgini’s….attractive, sexy, fast, deadly in the final 3rd….but their engines dont last! :D

    Arsenal are the Ferrari of the Football World.

  179. Big Raddy says:

    Main problem here in summer (?) is the light. It gets dark around 11.30 and light around 3.45, which is an absolute swine for sleep.

    But when it does eventually get warm, Copenhagen is one of the most beautiful cities in the World

  180. Big Raddy says:

    Excellent GF !!

    Spurs are Renault. Huge investment and a large range of models, but ultimately crap

  181. GhostFace says:

    Very interesting Id love to visit.

    —————–

    kelsey says:
    May 31, 2010 at 4:23 pm
    Afternoon all.

    I am not privy to any inside information, and I doubt anyone here is either.I take the view that no one player is bigger than the club, and if cesc wants to go back to his roots, one can fully understand that.If we had won the title or the CL I doubt the situation would be any different.

    ——————–

    Have to disagree with that Kelsey

    Maybe if Arsenal hadnt been spanked off the park by Barca on both legs, Maybe if we have been in contention or look like we are making progress with obvious issues in the team

    By all Accounts.

    Cesc Fabregas is a doomer. He’s had enough.

  182. irishgunner says:

    GF – Was there the first week of December in ’06 I think it was so no ball drop BUT saw Central Park, Rockafeller, 5th Avenue, Macy’s, Bloomingdales, Phantom on Broadway, Woodbury Common (I know that’s New Jersey but still shopping :D ), the inside of a few pubs, Time Square etc etc

    Have to go back though – loads more to see. I couldn’t live there though – well I could for a short while but not raise a family there type thing. I like the countryside :D

  183. GhostFace says:

    LOL BR

    Too many cars to compare with Spurs.

    Dodge Viper…loads of huff and puff but utlimately runs out of gas in the end.

    LandRover…Big in the middle, Loads of space at the bag…and inefficent upfront where it matters!

    Audi RS4…makes noise every year…decent on the eye and you cant tell if they are going fast or shitting on itself as it always leaves tire tracks on the ground as if to say “Spuds were here”

  184. Leon says:

    Because Arsenal are shit and unambitious that’s why he is leaving….

  185. GhostFace says:

    bag = back :D

    Irish

    You should definitely plan to visit soon!

    There are loads of Goon bars in Times Square…a little Chav and Manc contingency 5th Ave but for the most part good stuff ;)

    How bout Ireland? I confess i dont know anything about anything.

  186. Big Raddy says:

    Welcome Leon.

    Nice to see another literate, thoughtful comment .

    Spelling was good though – impressive for an 11 year old

  187. irishgunner says:

    Oh I will go back soon – maybe Christmas 2011.

    This year I’ve to find money for 2 gigs, going to see the Arsenal play and buy a car and I’m as broke as Pompey ;)

    Ireland = green fields, animals in fields, pubs, rain, recession, crap government and no World Cup – bout the size of it ha ha

  188. irishgunner says:

    “Unambitious” is a BIG word!!

  189. Big Raddy says:

    Irish. You forgot brilliant music, Guinness, beautiful women, horses, the craic ,….

  190. irishgunner says:

    I didn’t want to hype the country up too much Raddy ha ha

    I don’t like Guinness – yuk!! Will only drink it when its heavily watered down by blackcurrant juice. I do drink it on the continent though cos its heavily watered down – not the same stuff.

  191. Leon says:

    It was honest and 100% accurate big raddy that’s why you don’t like it. Arsenal are not good enough in every position except the position that fabregas fills and he is off to Barcelona very soon. If you want an idea of our “ambition” and what will happen over the summer just look at all the other summer transfer windows – 14 years Wenger has been here and his net spending is 26 million less than his transfer dealings – good business I hear you say but we have fallen back – to me it’s not finding hidden talent at cheap prices it’s lacking the spine to buy quality experience – I repeat what I said before FABREGAS IS LEAVING BECAUSE ARSENAL LACK AMBITION AND ARE SHIT – he would be insane to stay

  192. GhostFace says:

    Guiness with Black Currant?

    LOL i juss googled Black Currant. :oops:

    Guiness is great stuff man! Irish dont be such a girl man!

    Its A bit strong sometimes I agree but the Governor of Beers imo! ;)

  193. irishgunner says:

    See Leon you should have said that the first time – we like when people elaborate beyond a word – keeps the conversation going.

    Welcome to Arsenal, Arsenal :)

  194. Big Raddy says:

    I only drink Guinness in Ireland! Other places it is watered down rubbish, though there is a pub on Liverpool Rd near THOF that imports direct from Ireland. Lush.

    But I am a Oenophile (wine lover)

  195. GhostFace says:

    Leon

    Talking in capitals doesnt make you anymore intelligent.

    Neither is calling Arsenal shite Either.

  196. hotchip says:

    Don’t think you can put this all down to Wenger not buying the right players… Cesc like everyone else wants to maximise their earnings potential, it’s as simple as that.

    If Arsenal offer him more to stay than Barca offer him to leave then he’d stay.

  197. irishgunner says:

    LOL I AM a girl :lol:

  198. GhostFace says:

    :shock: :oops: :shock:

  199. irishgunner says:

    I only drink white wine, don’t like red wine, find it too strong. Although a nice rose with a meal is not to be sniffed at.

    Give me cider any day of the week – and vodka, rum, and shots!

  200. GhostFace says:

    Oh wow…

    Sorry bout that! I have to say for a girl your knowledge of the game will put many to shame! :)

  201. irishgunner says:

    Well at 24 I’d like to call myself a woman but I don’t really act adult so girl will do :lol:

  202. dandan says:

    Ireland Green, Great Fishing, super countryside, nice people, bit expensive now but used to hire a house there every year for a fortnights fishing. Big Black bream and super roach.

  203. irishgunner says:

    Its my own fault GF I should have given myself a girly name like Peaches did ha ha

  204. irishgunner says:

    Dandan – I’ve only ever been fishing ONCE can you believe that – caught nothing!!

  205. Leon says:

    I guess that makes every Arsenal fan in the country who dared suggest that Arsenal’s surrender to teams like Wigan and Blackburn was ‘shit’ an idiot then ? This is a football forum where fans come here to “chew the fat” which might involve the odd “shit” or “crap” in the conversation – I am not abusive to other posters yet have received abuse from others – if you want to talk about visits to New York go chat on face book !

  206. Big Raddy says:

    Leon. Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself.

    I completely disagree with you that AW and the club are unambitious. What good did the €280 Real Madrid spent do them. We got further than them in the CL and only one place behind them in League position.

    Which isn’t to say that I wouldn’t like us to do better. Of course , as a Gooner I want us to win everything, everytime. but we have gone backwards to go forwards as you will see over the forthcoming seasons

    To say we are shite is just plain stupid and doesn’t require a response.

  207. dandan says:

    The Shannon is a magic river, we used to stay in the Shannon Bridge area Irish. Or hire a big cruiser to store all the gear on, Happy days

  208. dandan says:

    Walcott when you learn to spell we may pay some attention. Idiot

  209. Big Raddy says:

    Hotchip. Cesc earns €7m a year prior to merchandise and advertising revenue. Let us say he earns €10m a year.

    Does earning €14m p.a. make any concrete difference to him? It is not about money….

  210. irishgunner says:

    I’m in where I come from you fucking retard.

  211. Big Raddy says:

    Walcott. Grow up…..

  212. irishgunner says:

    Not so smart now are we you little knobjockey.

  213. kelsey says:

    Hi Leon,

    We don’t need Facebook thank you very much. This is a co-op site and if we want to diversify away from everything arsenal and just chill, that’s exactly what we do.You most probably didn’t know that.

  214. irishgunner says:

    Yeah its a nice spot Dandan – I’ve done an 3 hour cruise on the Shannon and its lovely and peaceful.

  215. Leon says:

    Money does not guarantee success that is true but neither does selling your best players every season – we will benefit from UEFA’s new ruling but not from Wenger’s foresight but from his economic way of running the club. Chamakh is a start but we simply have to invest – wisely of course.

  216. Big Raddy says:

    Leon. Taking our two worst performances of the season is unfair, particularly as we were missing well over half our first team – as you well know.

    How about 6-1 Everton. or the run of games up until RvP got crocked.

    Then say we are Shite…..

  217. Big Raddy says:

    “knobjockey” :-D And you a Lady !!

  218. irishgunner says:

    ” we will benefit from UEFA’s new ruling but not from Wenger’s foresight but from his economic way of running the club”

    Is it not really the same thing though?

  219. dandan says:

    They have just started showing Wolves v Arsenal on ESPN

  220. irishgunner says:

    :lol: Don’t make me angry Raddy, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry ha ha

    He’s the same eejet that left the IRA comment the other day.

  221. Big Raddy says:

    Leon. Another spurious argument. We haven’t sold our best players since Anelka and Overmars (and he only lasted a season).Flamini – can’t even get in the France squad ahead of Diaby!

    PV, TH, RP, Freddie, all past their best.

    We remember them in their pomp, but they were all on the down slope.& We got good money for them.

    What we did with that money is another discussion…..

  222. Big Raddy says:

    Ban the pillock Irish…..

  223. Big Raddy says:

    Gottago

    Thanks for the entertainment

  224. irishgunner says:

    I’ll see can I do it – you know me, I don’t like being unladylike :lol:

  225. thegoon says:

    i dont know why people are still doing the cesc round again.he says he wants to leave,regardless of why he is,his loyalty is not with arsenal anymore and the last thing we need is a captain intent on jumping ship.please get over it, he has served us and that well but the fire always exposes snakes.we need to let him go personally i dont even want him in our team seeing he has his eyes elsewhere,lets raise some home talent that is reliable.should an entire club come to its knees cause of Cesc?..purrlease

  226. andy says:

    BR. I Think you’ve gone but AA can play the Ray Parlour role ?…. are you insane or are we talking about a different Ray Parlour who didnt work his nuts off for very little recognition as apposed to a little russian guy who so wants to be the man of the moment ?

  227. PTangYangKipperBang says:

    It seems very likely to me that Cesc has been/is being leaned on. Probably from several angles. You can bet your ass that smoothies from Barca will have been wining and dining the Fabregas Mum & Dad etc. Because of the election thingee going on at Barca this year there is a great significance as to whether Cesc returns or not. The machine that is Barca would have been applying pressures for some time now. In secret like I say probably via family and friends as well as the crap we know about ie; comments fron Trixi, Laporta and co, dripfeed comments by players talking about it being in his blood etc and propaganda from their quite disgusting media (ours aint no better tho). I feel sorry for Cesc as I think he is being used by the people around him. It is also interesting that his agent is the son of David Dein. Who also was instrumental in Thierry going to Barcelona.

  228. [...] Why is Cesc Leaving? Morning all. With still no clear answers to the ‘Cesc is going, Cesc is staying’ debate – disastrous [...] [...]

  229. Big Raddy says:

    Andy.

    See GF 7.41 & my response 7.43.

    You are right. AA will never be another Pizza. He hasn’t the attitude or physical presence But he is a better player than him….

  230. charybdis1966 says:

    Ray Parlour – quickest man to draw a fire extinguisher this side of Chingford.

  231. andy says:

    Fair enough BR but i dont see how thats the same role ?
    More skilful player.. yes. better player.. hmmmm not sure yet.

  232. Morning all

    Theres a NEW POST

  233. Bermy Boy says:

    Cesc is too hungry to be close to the bottom of the best clubs! Yes Arsenal is a Huge Club, but i think when we lost against Man. United & Chelsea Twice & the defeat against Barca, it really put things into perspective as to were we Really are in comparison to the top clubs! It was dissappointing and an eye opener! We were Inferior, because some of the players lacked a high intensity to win! and also we have to acknowledge the extremely unlucky season we had with all the injuries… but Cesc is hungry to be a winner and i think that he wants to be surrounded by people with that same intense desire! I do think that he owe’s us one more year though… Cesc has always been good, but last season was the first were his total game had developed (scoring lots of goals)… I think it would be a shame if he left us just when he’s on the verge of reaching his highest potential… I’m sure that Arsenal would be very dissappointed to turn him into such a great player, only for him to leave us when he has reached such a high level of becoming the total player. I say he at least owes us one more year, so we can experience the final outcome of what Arsenal has developed. Either way, he will always be respected highly, at Arsenal!!! So Wenger please stop messing around and surround Cesc with true fighters!!! Because the fight has to start from the Manager and Wenger needs to show us all his intent on rectifying the obvious weak spots that this team has had for many seasons now.
    One last note: I honestly feel that if we didn’t have all those injuries, we would have won the league and maybe even beat Barca!!!

  234. Damian says:

    Amazing i don,t drive a Ferrari not cause i don,t like them i can,t afford 1 Wenger has had a budged of 15M a year so how do u buy a Teves Villa Torres etc. we built a 460M +interest at 5% fixed stadium that is all but paid in 2000 Wenger spent 50M and will again it was never a choice it was the only choice

  235. Chris says:

    Bermy Boy thats money if we had it he would of bought players that were good enough to play & win when first 11 wasn,t available anytime he sent Diaby Denilson & Song out together anytime Fab. wasn,t there they never looked like braking sides down

  236. Bermy Boy says:

    Yes Chris i agree, but there are certain kinds of people that have a deep hunger and fight inside them… and it doesn’t cost tons of money to buy that… we seem to contiuously buy skillful players that we are trying to teach them how to fight harder and have a higher hunger to win! Other clubs find players that already have that hunger… why is it that way? Is Wenger making them overconfident were they come out too relaxed? I don’t know, but we all agree that we’ve seen many players on our team who lack this high desire. Look at Diaby, for instance, when he plays with high intensity we can clearly see his potential, but we have seen many games where he just don’t seem motivated to give 100%… and there are many other players on the team in the same position… When our team plays 100%, there aren’t much teams that will test us, with the players we have right now. So when our Scouts are out there looking for players, i think it’s very important for one of their check list to be – High Hunger to Win… you either have it or you don’t or you surround those that don’t with more of these players so they will have to step up, or be the outcast who doesn’t!

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